Monday, December 1, 2014

Training oneself

From a reader:

I was wondering about you training yourself to enjoy and admire a different sex than you were originally attracted to. That seems like a very useful skill, and I wonder whether you can use it to train yourself to do different things, for example to enjoy watching bloody violence in movies more. I was always enamored by ways to test my self control and will, for example the ability to withstand pain, to control emotions etc. I don't self harm, at least not in the traditional sense. I do not cut myself or anything like that, and I do not get enjoyment out of things similar, or any release. But I do however do things such as ice baths to test my self control. But I do care about my self image greatly, and would not do anything that would defile my body.

Anyway, could one train themselves to become more sociopathic? Could you experience less emotions, especially less fear and stress? How do you think one would go around doing that? You mentioned you trained yourself using masturbation, it seems like any release of dopamine combined with an action or visualization would work, but it would have to be revived often. What would you recommend? Facing your fears? Deliberately putting yourself in stressful situations? Watch horror movies until you are never scared of them? Or even masturbate or eat sweet foods while watching violence? 

Or, how would one at will be able to invoke strong emotions, especially rage and happiness? 

Please help. 

P.S: I loved your book. You should if you haven't already read "The wisdom of psychopaths", it explores how psychopathy, lack of emotions especially stress and fear, can be very useful in some professions, such as surgeons and bomb defusers, or astronauts.

M.E.: I absolutely think you could be trained to be more sociopathic. Isn't that how we program child soldiers? Desensitize concentration camp guards? Empathy itself is very context specific. People cry over a child with cancer on the news here while millions are dying of AIDS in Africa. Not saying that it's bad or anything, of course you can't care about anything and everything. But it does suggest that it can be manipulated, either to care more or less about something. And brainwashing? I feel like that used to be more of a thing. Do we still believe that brainwashing happens?


  1. I doubt that you can actually train people to be "more sociopathic." Desensitization is not the same as being sociopathic. A sociopath will probably come out of hurting others with no remorse or conception of anything problematic having occurred (ever). This is not a normal experience.

    1. I think training could be accomplished. Hear me out.

      We don't even have a handle on what a FEELING is, more or less than the apt description of :sensations that manifest emotionally or physically through chemicals.

      If one can be trained to spot patterns, spot how actions ripple and affect other scenarios, and then showed concepts (beginning with mirror empathy, etc.) eventually people will adapt.

      I'm 36/40 on the PCL-R and I believe it to be like this. Being an accomplished professional in my field (Theoretical Computer Science and Pattern recognition in intelligent machines), I find it to be likely.

  2. I'm not quite sure if empathy is selective for everyone as I used to know someone who felt great discomfort by the mere knowledge of misdeeds against people or other animals no matter if those were even real. Frankly, I have no clue how that particular person was even able to live a normal life.

    However, if the reader is emotionally untouched by certain situations that should evoke feelings like thousands of people suffering/dying in the back of beyond, then I'd suggest to tranfer the same lack of emotional connectedness unto some more personal situations and once established tranfer it further "inwards" until you reach your goal. Make sure not to rush, concentrate at one step at the time.

    Such a tranfer of feelings is a bit different from classic conditioning, as M.E. did; It is more like connecting an already existing endproduct with an also already existing endproduct instead of using an endproduct to create a new endproduct, thus working a tad faster.
    To be more specific: Look at the news, knowing the suffering has nothing to do with you, indulge in that feeling of indifference, instantly turn on a movie with mild(!) violence and drag out the feeling of not being touched by it. As soon as the (lack of) feeling collapses, turn off the movie and take a rest. Reflect about what happened, but make sure to concentrate on your indifference toward the violence. As soon as you feel it, repeat.
    By the moment you don't need to drag the feeling of indifference from one movie to the other, you can switch from mild violence to something a little less mild. Repeat everything as done before. Follow up with more vivid violence et cetera. This way should get you quite fast to your goal.

    The display of violence you start with should be one you can stand without great discomfort. Otherwise it might lead to your discomfort retroactively influencing your perception of previously neutral material.

    If you got problems with the news as well then take something else, though the better it resonates to the violence you want to play down emotionally, the faster it'll work.

    I used the same technique to experience what "being sad" really feels like. (Well, okay - you might want to cross out the "really" because I frankly have no clue if it's comparable at all.)

    1. I have someone who is closely related to me who absolutely bleeds empathy. I don't even know how we're related. I'm never mean to this person ever because that would just be cruel, but his empathy can really get in the way of things sometimes. If I'm trying to pull out in traffic, and he sees a homeless person he's like STOP!!!, and has to go give the homeless person a dollar. His empathy is crippling, and he lives in penury because he has given all of his money away.

    2. I gotta make fun of myself. After I posted this comment, I was like, this is ridiculous! I have empathy! Then like 2 minutes later I was reading an article about killing babies, and imagining the political uproar, and I was like oh yes tell me how important the B-A-B-I-E-S are!!!!!! Um yea, so I'm gonna go practice this whole empathy for babies thing now :P

    3. Remember Gary Larson cartoons? The infamous roar from the public over his sketch entitled, Scrambled Babies? It's taboo to make fun of killing babies. But, like O&W's story about Dead Wife Dave, sometimes the mind, like god, works in mysterious ways. Dark humor is a defense mechanism that allows us think the unthinkable by making light of it. Making light of the horror perhaps keeps some people sane. How else could a 'normal person', an executioner, carry on without a bit of gallows humor?


    4. Dr.G, I think that with the babies has nothing to do with empathy, bu with focus. Practicing empathy wouldn't work, prioritizing focus would ;)

      Grendel, I can't recall such a comic, but DWD definitely made my day.
      If my memories don't fail me I've learned in psychology class about laughing being a strategy of coping with stress. So dark thoughts causing stress which causes laughter which is afterwards viewed as funny which leads to certain circles enforcing those reaction and therefore conditioning this sense of humour seems to be legitimate logic for me.

    5. Grendel, lol yea, like 50% of what I say is tongue-in-cheek. I do black humor all day. It's my prosocial outlet, otherwise I would go insane.

    6. Dr. Ginger,

      Me, too. Heh heh. If I can't laugh at the absurdity of the human/ beast hybrid condition, I'm dead. And you know we all want to stick around as long as we can. :)))

  3. I'm an "empath," perhaps even a "super empath."

    At the end of college, I had a devastating breakup with the man I'd been passionately in love with for 4 years. Feeling crazy and heartbroken, I drove across the country from the Midwest to Vegas, and I worked as a stripper for over 2 1/2 years at the best strip club in Las Vegas.

    I trained myself to behave in sociopathic ways in order to make $$$$. I had a system in place that rewarded emotionless antisocial behavior with thousands of $$ and punished emotional behavior with pain and embarrassment.

    Stripping is seduction, lying, manipulating and sex with reward$$. If you're a hot girl socio, wtf are you waiting for?

    My Pavlovian slut rewards changed me. I salivate over emotionless logic and cost/benefit analysis. I too see emotion as weakness... other than Love which is only strength.

    I just ended a "relationship" (F*** Off) with a sociopath. If he'd only given me something real to work with then I could have loved him... I wanted to love him... he was sooo sexy and cool... but instead of sharing true experiences, he tried to command and manipulate me into "loving" him.

    This site has been wonderful for understanding the futility of that relationship. Thank you all. You saved me from continuing a big fucking headache.

    I figured out he was a sociopath after about 5 months and then was fascinated learning about his psyche for the additional 6 months... however, as logical as I tried to be about the situation, I'm still an "empath" and part of my brain clung to the belief that we shared this special connection that would trump his sociopathy and that he'd love me and become what could satisfy me... but obviously, he could never be what I want. I was forced to end it in order to keep my dainty little empath heart from being curb stomped. C'est la vie.

    You socios have such good senses of humor.

    If I said I loved you would you hold it against me? ;)

    1. "If I said I loved you would you hold it against me? ;)"
      Only if you decide to go against me ;)

      Did you try to tell him that it'd be different if he'd stop manipulating you?

    2. Did you get to infect him with your stripper AIDS?

    3. @nihilistic mind

      I studied strategic communication in college (the psychology of how to get my way with minimal effort). I refined those skills through stripping in Vegas. By spending so much time with "my" sociopath, and now researching this blog, I've continue my persuasion education (I prefer the term "persuasion" to "manipulation" as "manipulation" has a negative connotation)

      I stopped talking to him for 2 months when I first realized he was a sociopath. I was terrified when I realized that every "joke" he'd said to me over 5 months had been the absolute truth. I worried he was dangerous.

      When we repicked up our "relationship" after I didn't talk to him for 2 months it was completely different. We were more like playmates than anything else. I have a billionaire sugar daddy and "my" sociopath helped me get an extra $10,000 from him ($33,000 instead of $23,000) on one occasion by giving me advice to "appeal to his honour as a man" and "he's in love with you right? I don't know why you're letting him dictate terms to you. You have the control." I took him out to dinner to celebrate this success.

      He told me that he was a sociopath and, even though I repeatedly told him I wasnt and definitely have feelings he joked and said, "Yeah, like horny and hungry."

      I told him I loved him once (I never really thought I did but wanted to see how he'd react) and he, rightfully, didn't believe me and said I was only trying to get in his pants.

      I didn't fully understand what him being a sociopath meant until I found this blog. I wasn't able to imagine a psyche so different than my own... It was a really awesome relationship actually... until he (perhaps unintentionally) hurt my feelings.

      As much as I tried, I can't be purely logical about a relationship with a handsome smart strong man who texts me and gives me attention all day every day... it's simply not in my nature.

      I told him that I'd like to move on from this and to please not text me anymore. I told him that I was reluctant to do this because I have so much fun with him and that I'd miss him, but that the relationship wasn't healthy. Too masochistic. That I'm done.

      Bonding with him encouraged my own manipulative, heartless and antisocial behavior. I want to be better, not revel in my worst behavior. I want to let myself feel and not view it as weakness. I want to be open and vulnerable with someone and risk getting hurt. I'm tired of being alone... mainly.

      So no, I didn't explicitly tell him that it be different if he stopped manipulating me... because I don't think it could be. I don't think he can help but hurt me on occasion and I can't help but be hurt. A scorpion will sting you; it's not personal, but it's a good reason to not to keep a scorpion in my bed. Even if it's an interesting animal.

      @anon 12-1 Yes. And stripper AIDS is the worst kind. He cried. But I knew he can't feel feelings, is the devil, and it was a bullshit manipulative act, so I laughed at him. That's how you beat a sociopath ;) empaths, take notes.

    4. @anonstripper

      Interesting story. Given the circumstances you did the right thing to do, he doesn't sound like he was even capable of understanding what feelings are.

      Not that I am, but I got much further in my aim to be more "normal", societies' normal that is, since I came across the revealing concepts of psychopathy/sociopathy.

      So you can't be purely logical about a relationship - is this generally applicable or only when you can't resist the evolutionary urges? I'd be interested because that is something I still struggle with to understand on a more basic, instinctual level. If one would tell you right from the start that no emotions are involved and never will be, like "I will never love you", would you be able to overcome such illogical assumptions or will your emotions still get in your way?

      On a different note, I find it quite strange that there's the possibility to study strategic communication - probably because it's natural to me. Do you know by any chance if there's the possibility to study emotional reactions too?

    5. Are empaths always a target for sociopaths?

    6. @nihilistic mind "So you can't be purely logical about a relationship - is this generally applicable or only when you can't resist the evolutionary urges?"

      With friends, money and casual sex relationships, I can be purely logical… or at least I can ignore my emotions in order to achieve a goal or meet a need.

      I had a relationship once where I purposefully selected the guy because the sex was good and I knew that I'd never love him and he wouldn't love me – we just weren’t each other’s type really. We hung out, had sex and slept over once a week or every 2 weeks for a year and a half, and though we’d grown to care for one another, when we parted ways, neither of us really noticed.

      "If one would tell you right from the start that no emotions are involved and never will be, like "I will never love you", would you be able to overcome such illogical assumptions or will your emotions still get in your way?"

      I wouldn't choose a man who is incapable of loving me for a long-term monogamous romantic relationship. It wouldn’t satisfy me. If I had an open relationship with an empath husband/boyfriend then I would gladly accept "I will never love you" from a sociopath lover, as long as he was meeting other wants and needs and was respectful and honest.

      The relationship with “my” sociopath ended the 2nd (final) time because I’d texted him naughty stuff about sex with me, and he responded, “That’s hot, but I’ve started seeing someone.” I knew him well enough to understand that it wouldn’t take long until his “monogamy” ended, so I just responded “lol awesome. Mazel.”

      Sure enough, a week later, he was texting me saying he’d been masturbating to me all morning and wanted to see me. When I asked about his girlfriend, he said that it didn’t work out and they’d broken up… I told him I was done talking to him.

      I didn’t end things with “my” sociopath because he would never love me. I ended it because I felt disrespected and undervalued – how could he be closer with another girl than me? I’d thought that our relationship was really special and valuable and the sex was Great – even though I never wanted him to be my boyfriend and never expected him to love me. I ended it because I didn’t like his behavior with this “girlfriend,” my ego was bruised, and my cost-benefit analysis for the relationship revised. Did I mean anything real to him at all? Certainly he was at least as addicted as I was to the chime of a new text message from a sexy person who entertains you.

      If I’d found this site before all of that happened, I may have behaved differently with him. I still hadn’t fully comprehended his inability to love me... I still thought maybe it was a choice he could make.
      He may have hurt me on purpose to validate his control or, as we were very open about our respective sex lives, he may have no idea why I reacted the way that I did to his weeklong “girlfriend” and feel as though I behaved unpredictably...

      On a different note, I find it quite strange that there's the possibility to study strategic communication - probably because it's natural to me. Do you know by any chance if there's the possibility to study emotional reactions too?

      You could study emotional reactions by paying close attention to facial expressions and body language, and likely by reading about communication strategy and theory. It’s an interesting question, as emotions don’t seem to be understandable through logic.

      I read an article that said relationships succeed because of kindness and generosity. I see no reason an intelligent sociopath couldn’t easily research online what these concepts mean to empaths and directly apply such strategies for a better life… people want to feel respected and understood.

    7. @nihilistic mind et al.

      What is the world of feelings like to you? What feelings are strong and which do you have no real understanding of whatsoever?

      As an empath, my emotions always get wrapped up in another people’s strong emotions – if I’ve made a person upset then my judgement goes cloudy as I feel very upset and sad myself – and all I want to do is make everyone not upset anymore... so I can feel better. I’d never logically evaluated the power that’s to be had from Purposefully creating strong emotional reactions in others. It saddens me that empaths become addicted thru intermittent pain and reward.

      Do you enjoy movies or tv? Is it boring because you can’t become emotionally invested in the characters? Is it a useful learning tool for expected emotions and behavior? Do you like stories?

      The mix of self-awareness and charm in sociopath while still being unable to empathize really blows my mind. I find it interesting which aspects of personality and life are empathetic and which are logical.

      Have you accidentally ever ruined a relationship that you valued without understanding what had happened?

      Are you in a relationship? Would you want to be in a relationship with an empath? What does your ideal relationship look like?

    8. had a bad breakup and with your super empath powers you became a whore instead of well...doing anything even mildly logical, and then went on a road to transformation (which reeks of NEVER LOVE ANYONE LOVE IS FAKE) to be hardened by sociopathy?

      And this all began with one man that you were pissing over for 4 years?

      I don't know if you ripped this off from a movie or you're actually that idiotic.

  4. I am fairly sure that the military "makes sociopaths" every day - that's kind of the idea, make people more inclined to kill. It's not a by product - it's the goal. After one of the major wars, the command was distressed to see the low number of people who actually did the fighting. They've upped that number since.

    Also, you might argue that EST and Landmark Forum also make people more selfish and less empathic (these people are usually particularly annoying examples of the saying, "there's no zealot like a convert").

    What I feel differentiates the first (military) from the second (self "help" groups) is that with the military there is a moral compass of sorts in the purpose/duty and the chain of command. With the latter, there's isn't any such thing from what I can tell.

    Those are my impressions from talking to folks and reading about the topics. I've never been through any of those and is any of the posters here have, I would be curious to hear their impressions -

    1. The modern American military does not intentionally manufacture sociopaths, though I see the logic in that line of thought. It does something arguably worse in trying to walk the line between cold-blooded killing and compassionate humanitarians with disastrous results (see modern suicide rates, job satisfaction levels, and stress-induced social trauma). We ask a Western warfighter to gun down hostile targets without hesitation, but to limit collateral damage and have respect for local culture and traditions.

      Credentials: 13 years enlisted military service

    2. I would love to hear more about your experiences.

      That duality does seem like a recipe for confusion and disaster.

    3. Thanks CC,

      That's probably a more fair - I was referring to the methods of increasing kill rates.

      I can see how that would make for some...dissonance.

    4. Anon 2:44, as a blanket rule I don't tell "war stories" and mention my occupation only as context for responses, but if you have a specific question I can give you a specific answer.

      HLHaller, "On Killing" and the pseudo-sequel "On Combat" are great looks at military efforts to achieve the goal you mentioned. The reality on the ground is that they have made limited advances at best. The percentages have drifted some but the trends are the same- distance from target and likelihood of engagement remain proportionate, the majority of warfighters never fire their weapons outside a qualification range, and a comically low number of troops account for the vast majority of hostile action.

    5. Thanks CC - I will check those out.

  5. Anonymous @ 6:08 PM - from yesterday

    This posted by either HLHaller or DocSciFi in other post-

    "You've managed to withstand my alters. Clearly you do have good understanding of the disordered mind."

    In this hole thread ("depressin hurt"): HLHaller, DocSciFi & Ginger
    btw Stay Smart is my Alter..
    SS's no real, other person seprate from me..
    You've bin played AND the jokes on yous..everywhere & no just on this site..other places Google+ and other BIG sites I'm goin to mention if I switch..
    I TWIST you minds in all directons...even make fun of meself (ha ha ha) to confuse & play with ya. It's hilarios for me! I RULE, ya 2 idiots - HaiLHater and DuckSciFuck!

    Ya deserv this..cruel sadistic peopl..

  6. I've bin trickin ya for SO LONG with "this" HaiLHater and DuckSciFuck!
    Now see how SMART I is? (btw..I am so HAPPY today! Ha ha ha!) jokin joker me
    Ya've bin messin w/ the wrong person, i tell more bout other ya 2 and oder BIG sites in MEDIA if I switch..
    I say, Ya gotta go!

    1. I'm thinking something was said that triggered a borderline episode...what's up anon?

    2. Dr Ginger is awasome BP >> E haha

  7. "The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million people is a
    statistic." So said Joseph Stalin.
    It's true. It's easier to process and empathise with the death of one, then
    millions. ISIS committed plenty of atrocities. It was the beheaddings of a few
    reporters that compelled the U.S. to take action.
    Thousands of black people are killed everyday by other black people. One
    killing of a black kid by a white cop becomes the focal point of national riots
    that might yet destroy this society.
    When I was crying over my dying mother in the I.C.U. room, I didn't take any
    notice of the other people who were crying over their loved ones.

  8. The TRUTH is soooooo LIBERATIN! I WANT to say more, MUCH MORE about ya 2 temptd..

    if I switch,,,

    I kno I met 2 nasty sadists in me life..& on G+ ya 2 tried to make me commit suicide for weeks with you coments and Images..I'm no stupid (far, far from it)..and like I said as SS Alter, ya 2 are cruel, hate criminals..
    But I played ya as SS Alter hear and in oder places..Ya NEVER knew it either..
    What a GAME! Ha ha ha!

    1. Didn't you recently say you were practicing some dbt skills?

    2. Anonymous November 17, 2014 at 3:34 AM

      I mised the point?

      DuckSciFuck, you posted this, and I kno. The oder that remains is HailHater, you PARTNER,, so dat makes 3 of us..but this is you "masterpis"..from oder sites too

      "What M.E. has done to hurt "sucker" empaths is O.K. because she is pretty,
      That (along with her intellect) is her ONLY "saving grace.) An attractive person
      (Who prataces hygiene) can be forgiven ANYTHING.
      I don't mean that they can be forgiven everything by EVERYONE, but they can
      find enough support to materially survive.
      For example, celebrated criminals can find "groupies" and attract interest.
      They can get sex and monetary gifts. Their "fans" don't really know them, so
      they can't be in love WITH them, just their idea ABOUT them. Kind of like a
      good looking presidental candatie. Image is EVERYTHING. The Halo effect.
      How about those two great looking bi-racial male criminals who took the net by
      storm and are slated to make millions? People's need for attractiveness will
      trump their common sense.
      M.E. has (MOST) everything she needs: An attractive appearence. Money.
      Charm. Survival skills. Adaptablity. Ability to con because of those trait's.
      She could probably "get" 65% of the population of both male and female IF she
      wanted. Could she get authentic "love"? Does she have a grasp of what
      authentic love is?
      As for the ugly one's only a SMALL amount of them are worthy to keep around.
      Superior intellects and artists. The rest should be gently encouraged to commit

      I didn't mis any point - none.

      "The rest should be gently encouraged to commit suicide."

      Like I said ya tried to git me to commit suicide for weeks on end on G+ (I have all dat stuff ya posted on their and other big MEDIA sites too..ya know dis and dat..hear and there..) and have bin tryin to do the same thing hear too..with tortur and cruel words in btween the lines..even tried to torture me SS Alter this hole time, but I taught ya a lesson thru it..Tsk, tsk, tsk..Did ya think i was goin to kill meself? Nah, never. I'm much strongr then you think and much smartr then ya think,,,

      You and you partner are the reel criminals hear..reel nasty minds..SADISTS in upper case like ya've bin writin hear frm time to time, G+ & other bout that NPD diagnosis ya've bin researchin much on youself

      But yeah, what a gay ("How about those two great looking bi-racial male criminals who took the net by
      storm and are slated to make millions?") game ya play..I mean joy..enjoyble game! Not! Ha ha ha

      And btw, I like it when ya call youself a criminl..It's so EXPOSIN! So is you partner,,,Ya just kept goin yestrday..pilin it up..masterpis..

      Ahem..I may switch soon..much more to say..

    3. It's much simpler than what you believe. Aliens from the planet Icchantika that circles two suns, Pygmalion and Desiderata, have landed on earth and invaded this internet forum as well as other places you visit.

      Their mission is to find human specimens to transport via a wormhole back to their home planet. They are making a zoological collection of all conscious life forms they can find.

      Indeed only conscious beings can be transported via the wormhole because it relies on a particular type of quantum coherent entanglement (read up on Penrose about consciousness and quantum mechanics). However the conscious state that can be entangled to the wormhole is highly specific and you may be one of the few human specimens that can reach such an unusual state. They are not interested in your death, far from it. RA may have heard of this before...

    4. brilliant Doc.
      Do you know where can i sign for it!? ;)

    5. Alas, the peculiar state of consciousness that can be entangled with the wormhole is unwilling and inept. They have yet to devise a contraption that can take willing speciments, but if they do and I find out about it, I'll let you know!

    6. I wish the Anon up there could see the irony on this instead of the "enemy".... oh well! Gods perceptions goes in so many directions.

    7. Anon if you are hurting this badly, maybe would be a good idea to use your energy to get the right support you need, instead of validation from people that holds completely different perspectives then you. Even worst if you see this as an attack....
      What is it truly you looking for?! You have all the right to go an get what you need.... I just wonder, is it in here?!!!
      good luck

    8. DuckSciFi wrote whil takin dictasion from HailHater,

      "They are not interested in your death, far from it."

      And do ya relly think that peopl would be intrested in YOUR death, whenever that may be when ya time comes, just bcause your the partnr of a rich MEDIA man while playin games on the internet and chasin socios fer expose one who's not even a "build" up,? step out of victim mentalty? thro some dumb punches? antagonize M.E. fer no reason?

      See, it don't work dat way..

      back to reality now,,,"Their mission is to find human specimens to transport via a wormhole back to their home planet. They are making a zoological collection of all conscious life forms they can find."

      "Conscious"..consciense? like I wrote as SS Alter, bcuase I understand the consept too..& more..

    9. My rough understanding of the inner workings of the wormhole quantum entanglement gadget used by the aliens is thus.

      1. They hone in on potential specimens via an easier form of entanglement with the human being's consciousness. They are able to thereby read that person's mind, know all their thoughts, emotions, impulses etc. They test their mind reading ability out to see who's behavior they can predict.

      2. If they are sufficiently well entangled and tuned into a aperson's consciousness that they are able to predict everything they do, then that potential specimen gets elevated into high priority status.

      3. The next step is if they are able to completely control that person's behavior. Then they have extracted their will, which could only interfere with the most exquisetely subtle entanglement using long term coherence required to transport the specimen home.

      4. Part of their study is based on textual analysis using network theory and quantum entanglement on networks to locate targets.

      5. If one starts dreaming of alien abduction it is more likely one has been elevated to high priority.

      6. I have only a rough guess as to how all that works, but a rough calculation which is of course incomplete suggests that you are moving closer to higher priority status.

      7. The aliens will keep you alive, feed you well, indulge your pleasures, they will want to explore all possible states of being one can attain. Alas this includes torture, but not for ever, and they will rehabilitate you back to also see joy. They are amoral, simply curious.

    10. Some toxic rage from this Anon. FUCK YOU anon!

      DoctorSciFi this is legendary... good script for a film. Maybe Anon will be the principal worm on it.

    11. Well, Mia, I think it was Grendel who wrote about having a positive effect or influence if only for a moment on just one person -- he or she expressed it much better.

      If anyone get's a laugh all the better, and then what's this thread about anyhow but training. What was it HL or RA I forget proposed Assholes Anonymous?

      and then that bloody sherpa showed up and, you know, one actually cannot argue with science fiction -- fictional science yes. I don't actually mind the part of psychology that aspires to science fiction.

    12. my other coment I posted 'in a similar vein' ya perpetaute& promot the Disney-SciFi mentality hear credibilty whatseover..but than must be habit formin

      Is this a SciFi tale dat ya tell HailHater as a lullaby @ betdime?

      2nd Question..who r ya tryin to beat at this? perhaps RA on hear? bcause RA jokes around..ya however don't sound it..

      I don't kno..Is this ya way of "buildin" up?

      acquirin socio traits? Hmm..

      In ya own words on Nov 9, 2014 @ 8:25 AM

      "BITCH actually Honestly I wouldn't mind developing some level of psychopathy to add in my personality."

    13. DuckSciFi I forgot to post dis a "remindr" fer ya frm the oder MEDIA sites..

      the "censorin" too

      & dis, how can I possbly forget? Ya do have a pictures on the internet wearin a blue custume to this affect...

    14. Mia December 1, 2014 at 1:14 PM

      Some toxic rage from this Anon. FUCK YOU anon!

      DoctorSciFi this is legendary... good script for a film. Maybe Anon will be the principal worm on it.

      To DuckSciFi

      You breakin? like you tried to do to my SS Alter? (ahem) "in the same vein"

      Yeah..Let's cont&ennui
      Film is wat ya studied in school in NY..but didn't do much w/ it..Bummer..

      As to dat worm, ya see..the most fittin words I can think of basd on yer own coments (I beleive kids say dis durin a certian game):

      "YOUR IT!"

    15. Smartie....oh Smaaartieee....

      Be a dear and shut the fuck up, you silly cunt.

    16. Anonymous @ 2:48 PM


      "shut the fuck up, you silly cunt."

      To DuckSciFi

      Right, ya've said the same lowly, brainless things to me w/out any reason on, and too..those big MEDIA sites I was talkin bout earlier..

      Ya can't just keep goin around offendin me like dis..

      And I'm not Smartie..enough said..fer ya gutter language and ya know, the "little" suicide thing..

      Ah, but their's more..

    17. Ooooh, you're not Smartie.
      My bad, Nathan :)

      But how dare you speak to me this way? I asked you nicely to "be a dear". It hurts and offends me greatly that you keep up this abuse and baseless accusations.

      You think these new lies will convince anybody that you are a victim here? Show me real proof.

      And I think you owe me a sincere apology. One that adequately demonstates how remorseful you are for the anguish you caused, you crazy cunt.

    18. No, dis isn't abuse, lies or baseless accusasions at all..

      "you crazy cunt." Dis is abuse. abusive, debasin langauge. Altho you langauge is lowly, I'm not a women, & I'm not gay, so..

      Yeah, it's alright fer me to write dis hear on M.E.'s site & reveal thes things..She'd never abuse, insult or call me "crazy" for tellin the truth..In fact, she's smart, great host who understends things fully..more then ya can ever do..

      Ya kno, one oder thing I need to tell ya..dis is what lyin "criminals" say, too, when accusd of a "crime"..they shamelessly deny it..

      I owe ya an apology?

      Tell me, would ya apologize to an abusive persen, a "criminal"? Dat indid would be crazy..

      But wait, I'm askin the wrong persen: KINJA!

    19. woooow so you are saying it's ok to talk to women like that? I don't understand why people indulge the crazy people on this site. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm often entertained, but someone who is this mentally ill who has bpd with paranoid ideation should just be let go. This is the anon who uses the word "ya" a lot, and has said he has bpd. I don't know how, but I knew something about yesterday's thread would trigger a borderline episode. You can see this person obsessively hyper focuses on things that are posted on this site. You can see he's ruminating, and in the borderline mind things will just loop sometimes for months on end. Unfortunately if you keep responding to him he'll just get more worked up. I'd say just ignore him...or play games, hell I don't care :)

    20. Dr. G, yeah the language here at times and the attitudes embedded in that are, what, antisocial at times. I'm always glad to see people stand up to that.

      About "should just be let go", I am trying to understand what the argument would be. Is it a moral statement, or is it a statement of annoyance -- I mean is the should be let go for the benefit of that person specifically?

      Now I don't know much about borderline diagnosis, but still there's got to be some uncertainty from an anonymous poster who is identified as 'ya', and what he or she writes about themselves is also uncertain at best...

      I mean it is conceivable that this is an outlet for such a person that limits the chances that they do harm to others or themselves irl. I am not saying this is the case, simply that it is conceivable.

      I don't see this as a moral issue though. If it is a major distraction to the whole discussion that is the issue for me. I don't care how they might react or not react to any of this. Do you?

    21. “Is it a moral statement” Are you hoping to find a shred of empathy or morality in me? :P:P jk. My thoughts are is that it’s just pathetic. The guy is severely mentally ill. In fact, I even have a suspicion of who this might be from the facebook bpd community. I had to end contact with him because he couldn’t manage his symptoms. Plus he was a misogynist, and tried everything in his power to destroy me, and my career. I can tolerate A LOT from borderlines, but once you go there, and in a very public manner for months on end spread lies, and put the most atrocious things imaginable about me on the internet, and manage to turn hundreds of people against me, uh yea, probably isn’t a lot of forgiveness in my heart.

    22. DrG,
      I don't know if this freak is a beeper having some sort of meltdown, or if it's a lame troll. Either way, it was kind of fun.

      I dearly love to see people have meltdowns, especially if I helped bring them on.
      But...this is becoming unsporting. There is not much fun left in batting around a chewed up rat.

      Nathan, have fun. You've officially become utterly insignificant again :)

    23. well, I certainly didn't expect that answer! I don't get the connection between "pathetic" and "severely mentally ill" outside of any moral statement. I suppose it is a matter of context. so my question was not one about hope for this or that.

    24. Yep - I am thinking it's gotten to the "shooting fish in a barrel" stage. Fun while it lasted tho -

  9. Correction: there has to be a certain "material" in the individual to be able to, by "training", become psychopathic. Average folks will break down or become very frightened by harrowing prison-experiences. Other individuals will often "become" in that environment. Example of these type of sleepers: the zodiac "scorpio trinity", the death signs: virgo, libra & scorpio..

  10. I think this poses an important question- is every man with a hammer and nails a carpenter, or is a carpenter something else entirely? Can you are come more sociopathic by intentionally emulating the traits of a sociopath, or are you still possessed of that empathic quality that you choose to ignore for a period of time? Is shutting off your SafeSearch the same as not having one?

    I find a strange comfort in the concept of Icchantika, frequently compared to psychopaths- the concept that we are without the requisite seed from which compassion and empathy grow. In that line of thought, I would say that an empath choosing to behave sociopathically does not make them more sociopathic.

    More to the point, why would you? We need empaths in a very real way, to keep people like me from running amok as "what goes bump in the night". There are perks to being us, but actively seeking them is as immature as little boys wanting to grow up to be Soldiers based on the romanticized version of the profession rather than its gritty and brutal reality. My advice to the OP is to go chase some other shortcut to cutting emotional brake lines before someone with no brakes to begin with takes offense and adds you to their list of things to do this week.

  11. I don't think we should get better at controlling our emotions or making them stronger.
    Emotions are + energy in motion.... it is not a muscle that we can harden it.
    I think we should get better at feeling them, understanding them.
    Controlling feelings and impulses, just repress the energy. The ways these powerful energies come up can be harming and self-harming.
    For me testing yourself or any of those army techniques, just train you to numb and repress emotions. What do you want to get from it?!

  12. Most animals are unthinking specialist. Tigers shred sheep, never asking why or adopting and protecting lambs. Sheep crop grass and say, “Here I am, tiger, chow down on me.”

    Some animals are generalists. Pigs eat meat, plants, and garbage in general. A few bright animals such as primates, raccoons, elephants, and crows sneak up on self awareness, but only humans broke the “I am aware that I will die” barrier to full self awareness and abstract thinking. As the book DENIAL points out, we probably did so because we are so good at lying. We invented a fantasy called religion in different flavor flavors such as Abrahamic and Karmic, mostly telling us “You will live after physical death; good will be rewarded/evil punished; even though you are a lying and self deceiving scumbag you can find friends and allies who will pretend to love you spiritually and physically.”

    Even M.E., as intelligent as she is, and as skillful at pretending to be a decent human being, lies to herself (I guess) about the Mormon nonsense. For a long time, everyone told me I should be empathic and altruistic. Just as some homosexuals take a long time to realize their inner same sex fucker, and some bisexuals take even longer to realize their “I want to fuck any human with digits and orifices,” it takes empathic humans a long time to realize, “It's a jungle out there and my neighbor may be far more dangerous than a fucking tiger so I should be prepared to kill him or her if the need arise.”

    I am not a “real” sociopath, but after decades of telling myself that I was a fervent empath, I realized that I am something like a bisexual, but only in terms of the empath vs. psychopath/sociopath spectrum. I don't kill people, but I probably could with much less distress than most empaths. My wife is far more empathic than I am, but she has trained herself so she could probably kill efficiently in self defense if need arose.

    We are all Pygmalions creating ourselves, both as individuals and as a species. Because of our uneasy blend of nature and nurture, our canvas is not unlimited, but it's pretty wide. Now that we are landing on Mars and asteroids, analyzing our own brains, and tinkering with artificial intelligence, the sky's the limit. The time bomb that is our nature is ticking.

  13. my mantra for this week!

    RA "“It's a jungle out there and my neighbor may be far more dangerous than a fucking tiger so I should be prepared to kill him or her if the need arise.”

  14. Brainwashing is embedded in modern culture. In advertising, in video games, in schools, in just about every institution and activity I can think of. Someone is always trying to persuade us to their way of thinking, their way of seeing and judging, their way of cutting our hair, their way of praying and of having sex.

    Look at something as benign as fashion. You'd think intelligent creatures would not waste precious resources buying clothes they don't need, sometimes even downright dysfunctional clothing (killer high heels, a form of foot binding), just to look desirable or 'in style.' People, teens especially, get upset when they can't buy Gap when their friends are wearing it. This is brainwashing by the fashion industry. Now it's too the point in fashion where the brand name itself appears front and center on the clothing. Wearing the logo of the company is now the fashion. How stupid is that.

    As for empaths studying to become more cold -- sure. They can and do learn how to not care as much. In a dog eat dog world, it's a sensible tactic, otherwise they'd be constantly giving their love, money and time away. Some do and wind up on the street. I believe the human brain is so plastic that it can convince itself of anything, and once convinced that a certain tactic is necessary for survival it will try to adopt whatever traits or qualities are most useful. That doesn't make the empath less compassionate, just more discriminating and way more careful. It doesn't transform the socio into a empath or normal, they just become more aware that feelings are important to others, and that there may be something to be gained from taking those feelings into consideration. I'm thinking of an empath I know very well who nearly drained herself dry trying to help others out, no matter how 'evil' they were, no matter how much they used her. She studied psychopathy, exposed herself to violent movies, and is now much more balanced in how and to whom she gives. She still blubbers during dark romance movies, though, which I sometimes find extremely annoying. But at least now she can watch bloody boxing matches and cheer when teeth go flying.


    1. Grendel, I appreciate your thoughts in this and the prior comment on dark humour. I wonder if brainwashing is intrinsic to culture as a given, from the beginning, not simply in modern times. I also ran across a paper that I quote a bit below that seems related to your points. I am not sure if you would see it that way.

      "Fairy tales allow parents to help children prepare for the realities of life. Although we imagine leaving fantasy behind as we grow up, we continue to mix fantasy with reality throughout life and often denyreason to hold onto our fantasies (Bettleheim 1981).

      Fairy tales arise from folk traditions. Things that are too dangerous to accept consciously are repressed and reappear in dreams and fairy tales. Fairy tales take placein a transitional space between fantasy/magic and reality. The dangerous becomes less frightening in fairy tales where good always triumphs over evil (Bettleheim 1981).

      As youth we are inducted into society by finding ourselves reflected in folk images. Initially, we live in a world saturated with elementary folk images, and later, we encounter the elementary ideas themselves. Jung described these elementary ideas as archetypes. We must struggle over time with life experiences that put us in touch with good and evil and if development is to be
      successful, then, metaphorically, the serpent that represents the struggle between life and death has to bite us strongly enough to awaken us to an internal world oftranscendence. We need to die in the world of the ego to
      transcend ourselves. However, not everyone can master this and not every elemental idea is transcended by society (Campbell 1981)."


    2. DuckSciFi,

      FAIRY TALES..Aren't ya the one on the oder MEDIA sites of ya partnr & G+ who disguises himself as Disney charcters? I got to see ya transfrmasions full-fledgdly..detales too..

      Hmm..talkin bout "maturity" when being the partnr of a rich media man..playin useless games..actully encouragin the Disney "perspective" while doin it..totally opposite of what ya write here..& talkin bout one's true "face" too..shamlessly..

      See, don't work dat way..follow yer own advise..well dictasion..

      And hear, the immaturity..the proof is in the puddin, as they loud & clear..

      "Their mission is to find human specimens to transport via a wormhole back to their home planet. They are making a zoological collection of all conscious life forms they can find."

    3. Dr.SciFi, I like your comment. Fairy tales are a primer for the psyche and for life. The book you mention is now on my list. Bettleheim and Campbell are great reads. I've read a bit of both. Ah, the memories of being frightened to death as a child by my Nana, whose biblical tales of slaughter and revenge curdled my young blood. When I discovered around age 10 fairy tales and other dark fiction (I wasn't allowed to read them as a child), the bible made a lot more sense. I laughed my hairy ass off! It's not that I don't find awe in the invisible and transcendent; indeed, as the dweller on the threshold, experience has taught me much humility, via seeing through the eyes of another, and my impact, good and bad. And, it's simply that there are so many different views on His/Her vital essence, form, etc. Anyway, fairy tales. like myth, all tell the same stories. The fact that certain stories/myths are universal says a lot about us, the spectrum of human needs, wants and drives.

      I am enjoying our conversation, and the comments of many others. Intelligent conversation. The wanking off by SS and others I think I will simply ignore. Such a waste of time arguing. I'd rather explore and discover ideas than try to convince anyone they are not a saint, genius or whatever. It was hilarious, as O&W noted, that the more SS argued she/he was offended/hurt, the funnier it got. Like O&W, I was stunned that anyone would ask for an apology on socioworld. That. Is. Disordered.


    4. TO Grendel/DuckSciFi/HailHater

      First off I'm not SS or Smartie..

      (yer coment) - "That. Is. Disordered."

      Second: Do ya kno what's disordered?


      Gosh, I saved conversasions, too..ya kno, showin views on things, writin styles/expressons, similar insults "in the same vein" and gutter langauge, abusive practises, same ideas (some identical to what's hear)..and so on & so forth..chasin around a non-socio, too..accusin the non-socio of being a psycho/socio..shamin and demenin w/o any reason on

      so much to say

    5. Grendel, Peck in his book "People of the Lie" has an interesting discussion of evil, the devil, god, laziness and narcissism and how it plays out in individuals and in society. He focusses particularly on the Vietnam war. He advocates exorcism for some individuals. It's a pov that I resonate to in parts.

      If you follow his line of reasoning, people who are evil are also reductive in their thinking -- they become much more predictable. evil is boring, cheap.

      Of course such people would be more likely to become high priority targets for the scifi aliens too cause the contraption to hook via quantum entanglement into their consciousness is so much simpler than for the rest. It's too bad because in the zoological cacophany the aliens hope to create, they are actually selecting for evil consciousness inadvertently and thereby limiting what they can learn. I'm still working on my calculations to see if there is any way around this.

    6. Dr. SciFi, Your comment, "It's too bad because in the zoological cacophany the aliens hope to create, they are actually selecting for evil consciousness inadvertently and thereby limiting what they can learn." hahahaha.

      I've read People of the Lie. Twice, I believe. Many frequencies I recognize.


    7. Hi Grendel,

      Check out The Century of the Self, if you haven't already seen it. Part of it is the accounting of how we were turned into a consumerist society.

      When I was an undergrad, a couple of my friends were studying Economics. They told me a story, which may well be nonsense, but it was an interesting notion -

      In South America (I think) the companies were having trouble retaining workers. It seems that they would work for a while to make what they needed to meet their needs and then stopped showing up until they needed money again. The solution: give the women catalogs.

      Like I said, I don't know if it's true of not, but it gave me pause. The Century of the Self had a similar effect on me - gave me something to think about.

      Be warned: it's long - four hours long.

    8. HL, There's a story, by Lucius Shepard, in which a South American peasant, has a nagging wife who wants to buy a TV. The story is called the Jaguar Hunter. About a man who goes into jungle to trap and kill a jaguar so that his wife can afford a TV. It's wonderful. Check it out.

      The Century of the Self sounds great. Preaching to the choir of me, but, hey, I like that. :)))


    9. When they get into the application of "public relations" and focus groups in politics, it's referring to times that I've lived through - the Clinton and Bush years. That is a very interesting perspective.

    10. What movies would you recommend for sociopathic training? I'm an extreme empath and know I need to toughen up.

  15. Grendel. I TOTALLY resonates very much with what you wrote there.

    I watched yesterday "John Wick" movie. What a wicked film. I would have been able to do the same for my dog or to the ones I love, my dog first you bet!
    It was energising to see the goodie shooting.... Candy Times for fair games and plays! every shoot and punch was ORGASMIC for me, you bet!

  16. Mia. Thanks. John Wick looks good -- I, too, had a 1969 Mustang (red with black interior) and a beloved dog I drove with across the country. :))))


    1. Coool! A red one with black interior! that had some boy power! I bet your testosterone levels were risen when looking at it! good times then! I had a red old bicycle, that hardly managed to get me to school, plus friends always was up for a ride.... to give me a ride actually! oh well! great toys! great times!

    2. plus + John Wick looks good Oh yessss he does! I would take him home easy easy.... as he is not a Psychopath!!!

    3. Mia, You're cute. :))) Too bad I crashed the Mustang or I'd invite you for a ride.


    4. come and fix my bike :) ooops ;)

    5. I ride or don't fix bikes, my sweet darling. Grendel had a bad accident . . . But I'll be there in spirit.


    6. I meant" don't ride or fix bikes." I do know, however, a half breed socio who does. :)))


    7. Gren are you offering me a half breed socio?! I thought you were my friend. Tha's bad too BAD. Father santa will know about this!

    8. Mia, I was joking. Please tell Santa to give me a break. Really. I have a very dark sense of humor. As I added, I didn't mean to say that you aren't pristine. None of my business.


    9. Maybe I was wrong - maybe it IS a singles bar... ;)~

    10. pristine :) good one. That is our birth right nature! all all of us my dear Grendel! sometimes we just play with our monsters and forget that they are also in the Pristine Party! oh well! lol

  17. I was sent to a "behavioral modification school" at a young age because my parents considered me to be rebellious. A lot of the students I attended with believe that we were brainwashed to be sociopathic.

  18. Everything written in the last half dozen or so comments strikes me as accurate, useful, and perceptive. As well as information you are much less likely to encounter in most of the discourse of today, though I suspect quite a few people realize the accuracy once it is pointed out to them.

  19. Is this We’ve got a Vegas stripper, we have ME talkin about masturbation, and training herself to be sexually attracted to the other sex, we’ve got Grendel offering to take Mia for a ride in his mustang. Man it’s getting hot and steamy in here. What’s the deal with ME training herself on that anyway? I only got up to page 40 before I had to return it to the library, but I’ve been meaning to check it out again.

    1. This blog actually started out as

      It got worse from there.

    2. Dr. Ginger hahahah you have some talent girl! check it out see we are a good soup here! more on its way....
      In the end we shall get what really matters = sex & a laugh... procriation to recreation. Anything else is just preparing the way for it >>>>> *

    3. Libraries. Take the steam out. Mia and me will never meet. More delicious that way. I like text. It's dry and transports feelings, ideas but not STDs. Not that I'm implying she has suffers any of those maladies. Tales about human-tailed monsters particularly interest. As kin.


    4. Shit Gendel you hit the fan with this one. Stds and stuff ooooopppppsss. I gotta a much better plan.l I will definitely dream up in a nice SOUL ride with you and The Mustang... I will bring my dog! see you when I transcend to the other dimensions. That put me to be straight! goodbye

    5. Mia, Transcend and I'll see you on the other side. Wish you the best.


    6. you BET! everyone here will meet there.... that is for sure! meanwhile all the best for you toooo.

      Back to the class! Dark humor is something i am learning to learn.... it is intensely liberating, plus there is always so much truth on it. Good dark humor are only for the ones that can see beyond. I respect that and don;t take personally.... I try to see what is there ( a trigger, an idea, a boundary violation, something)

      Have you ever heard of George Callin?! One of my heros.... when I am on my "bitch freedom" mode he join the club.

    7. Grendel, let me get this prefer text to actually meeting with her?
      Granted, she does seem like a ditz, but at least if she's on her knees with mouth full, she might be bearable.
      STDs are easily avoided with condoms and a little common sense, so that excuse is weak.

      I wonder.
      Do you prefer text because you prefer the fantasy? It's all too easy to talk about a sculpted body, 8 inch cock and all the ways you'd make a woman scream and cry with pleasure.
      But do you prefer the fantasy because you know you could not deliver in real life?
      Can't handle seeing that look of disappointment flash in her eyes when she sees you?
      Hate the faked moans and awkward silences, where you know the sexiest thought that crossed her mind was that she was going shoe shopping to console herself after this?

  20. i went back in time and voted for hitlerDecember 1, 2014 at 6:41 PM

    brain washing probably doesn't work. many people who fancied themselves communists used "re education camps" to try brainwashing people but it turned out they were only pretending to embrace communism to get out or get better treatment. now mind control, a form of psychological abuse that is used to change and control people, definitely works. most cults employ this to turn their followers into unthinking sycophants.


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