Friday, November 14, 2014

Nightcrawler

I've been getting quite a few inquiries about what sort of mental health diagnosis I think that Lou Bloom, the protagonist in the film Nightcrawler, might have. I'll try to stay general about personality characteristics and not specific about plot so as to avoid spoilers, but also apologize that consequently this won't make sense unless/until you see the show. The good news is that the show is worth seeing.

So, I'd love to hear other people's thoughts because mine is just a guess, and not a very educated one, but I thought autism spectrum with antisocial traits? There's actually a strong hint of narcissistic personality disorder as well, but mostly in his seemingly selective obliviousness to the needs and feelings of others and the way he prioritizes his own needs above all else. But my (albeit limited) experience with people with ASD suggests that they too come off as selectively oblivious.

Bloom clearly has difficulties empathizing, both cognitively and emotionally. It's not clear whether he can't tell when he creeps people out, or he can but chooses to ignore it. On the one hand, it appears to be the former because if he could help it, why wouldn't he be less creepy? Especially if it would make his life easier for him. On the other hand, he says things, especially later in the movie, that suggest that he just doesn't care to wear a mask for the sake of others. Also, there are plenty of times when he is very smooth, especially when he is committed to playing a particular role rather than trying to be a more sincere version of himself. This is especially true when he has just seen the "right" behavior modeled to him, e.g. the job interview situations with him on both sides of the table, also when he first begins his "career".

I think the thing that shocks the average view the most about him at first is his instrumentalism. He does not have ethics or even really pretend to have them (at least not until ethics both become necessary for his survival and are properly modeled for him to imitate). He is a clever tactician, but part of it seems to be based on luck or mimicry rather than planning things out several steps ahead. Some viewers may notice that his most elaborate set-up had several ways that could have left him unacceptably vulnerable, if things had not gone just so. Perhaps he would have relied on his ability to improvise solutions and have dealt with those issues if/when they came, but it gives him the overall impression of him just being a huge risk taker rather than a mastermind. He is super cool under pressure. He doesn't seem to express much emotion, except the negative, anger based ones. He does not seem to have a moral compass at all. He behaves in antisocial ways that would have him likely scoring as ASPD or high on the PCL-R.

Some of the most entertaining and thought provoking parts of the movie are when he has taken a concept that has been very intentionally soft-pedaled to him (e.g. if it bleeds it leads) and acted very literally and unapologetically on it. For instance, people may be aware of (and passively supporting) the mass euthanizing of animals at animal shelters, but people get quite upset still when they actually witness an animal being harmed (see also, eating meat). Bloom does not understand or at least acknowledge in his actions these very fine distinctions that are frequently drawn. But it's not that Bloom seems to misunderstands the concept or the nuance, he just feels no need to sugarcoat what is, not justify his actions to himself or others, nor otherwise try to whitewash exactly what he does and why he does it -- what prurient interests he is trying to supply.

The thing is, every character in a Hollywood film is going to be a caricature of whatever they're attempting to portray. So it's not too useful to analyze this character in any serious way in terms of an actual mental health diagnosis. Still, I thought it was an interesting portrayal of what might be thought of as a psychopath who perhaps was not socialized early enough to have been fluently normal seeming (home schooled psychopath or psychopath raised by aspies?), or someone on the autism spectrum who is particularly obsessed with self promotion (not like selfie generation promotion, but in the driven, career centric way) and power. 

50 comments:

  1. That was a bad ass movie.

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  2. Not long ago I saw a film titled "Map Of The World." (1999.) It was about
    a school nurse who babysat a neighbour's child, who drowned on her watch.
    Her behavior aroused suspicion. She didn't seem all that distraught. She almost
    laughed it off.
    A bubble of suspicion grew. People begin to come forth with recollects of odd
    behavior. "She slapped my child in the Nurse's office", etc. Tounges started
    wagging, and they demanded she be arrested for the child's death.
    She didn't seem bothered at all. She retained complete composure. She would
    read while agitation swriled around her.
    Her husband was baffled by her behaviour. Why did she not show emotion?
    She even made houmorios observations about other prisoners. Her husband was
    ready to give up on her.
    Then the trail came. People testafied about her suspicious behavior. The slapped boy's accusations broke down under cross examination.
    The nurse was put on the stand and retained her composure. She gave a good
    accounting for herself. She was accquitted and resumed her life with her
    husband and family. We don't know what the court of public opinion had to say,
    but she prevailed. She even reverted to normal.
    I think it's impossible to say whether someone is a Sociopath on the basis of
    observed behavior. Psychopath is MUCH easier. They HAVE to recidivate.
    Ted Bundy couldn't help himself. Sociopaths CAN go back and forth. If a
    Sociopath has a compelling reason to stay on the straight and narrow, they CAN
    do it.

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  3. Autism as a diagnosis for the protagonist in The Nightcrawler is my opinion as well, and I find this to be a good analysis of him. Having worked as a therapist for a while with individuals on the autistic spectrum, I can say that I know more about autism than others who have not been in close contact with individuals having it. While I am familiar with the traits of borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder, megalomania and sociopath thinking/behavior based on my studies in psychology and other materials, I have never met or known anyone in real life who has them. I am a gifted person, having been tested and identified as one at a very young age. However, unlike popular beliefs, being gifted does not come without some things that are not easy to deal with in real life http://talentdevelop.com/articles/GPATP1.html ; http://www.educationaloptions.com/resources/resources_gifted_adults.php .
    So, going back to the protagonist in this movie, I also agree with the following two points, which I see as excellent observations:

    "Perhaps he would have relied on his ability to improvise solutions and have dealt with those issues if/when they came, but it gives him the overall impression of him just being a huge risk taker rather than a mastermind."

    Yes, he is definitely not a mastermind, and the huge risk taker in him, especially with some of those things that should not be gambled with in life, is what does not characterize him as a sociopath or psychopath. I observed the same thing, emphasizing the highly significant point that a sociopath or a psychopath would not "gamble" if dealing with a similar situation. And speaking of a mastermind, that particular type of mind does not function in such ways as exhibited by the protagonist.

    "But it's not that Bloom seems to misunderstands the concept or the nuance, he just feels no need to sugarcoat what is, not justify his actions to himself or others, nor otherwise try to whitewash exactly what he does and why he does it -- what prurient interests he is trying to supply."

    This is also an insightful point. There is no sugarcoating when it comes to an autistic person, and there are certain nuances that escape him/her. And speaking of this particular protagonist, once again, the autistic analysis fits him – not a sociopath or a psychopath at all.

    In yesterday’s post, Doctor SciFi wondered about the choice of topics on this site. Being a person who likes to think and understand people, I find the articles to be thought provoking, and that is my reason for being here. Understanding people from all walks of life and being open-minded leads to a more knowledgeable, well-rounded and accepting mind.

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    1. I'm here to let the evil out, and once I have exercised the demon, I can be released back out in to society.

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    2. on a different thread I raised the question as to why so few sociopaths recently participate here compared to what looks to have been the case in the past. It is possible the choice of topics would have an effect on participation of sociopaths vs. nons.

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    3. I've been reading the posts but not commenting as much. These threads became so unwieldy that it made participating difficult unless you spent a good bit of time at them every day.

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    4. Too many borderlines started hangin out. We could start borderline world....noooooooo, I saw what happens when borderlines get left to their own devices on facebook.

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    5. Did you check out that sociopath community someone mentioned?

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    6. Hieronymous Bot,

      So, what you're saying is that you like the daily article or topic, but not the responses in the threads? And can you expand on what you mean by unwieldy? I have only been reading and commenting here in the past week. However, during this time, I read some of the past topics posted here on a daily basis.

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    7. Dr. Ginger,

      How do you "exercise" (I believe that you meant exorcise) your demon on this site? The real question is, do you care for the daily topic and/or subject matter?

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    8. lolol thanks for the correction :P

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    9. Yes, I always read the blog posts. The thing I luv about this site though is no gets mad at me for going off topic. Ok, I'm feeling the pressure to be more serious. Let's see, I read the actor, I forget his name, I'm sorta counterculture by nature, and celebrity culture is just so fucking lame, anyway, I read he was supposed to have played a sociopath, and it took quite a psychological toll on him doing so. I also read the same about the one who played the joker in the Dark Night. I'm convinced that script was written by a real socio...it was just too good. I've noticed alotta borderlines identify with that character. They're feelin the joker :) Ok, so the way I exercise my demon is I take him out for a walk on his leash on sociopathworld, and I let all the mischievousness out here so that I go back in to the real world, and pretend like everything is ok.

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    10. HI HB. Nice to see you here again. It's not that there are too many borderlines, for my taste (not at all btw), but i do enjoy this site more when more socios participate.

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    11. Dr. Ginger,

      My response on here to Dr. SciFi about topics and what actually interests or engages me in discussion should answer your question about that site (sociopath-community.com). Simply put, it is not for me, certainly not that kind of nescient, vulgar and/or non-civilized subject matter, and I am refraining from talking about it much, because it would make no sense, much like that entire site.

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    12. Just went over there. Looks like there's some fun stuff, I just hate the way it's set up, and you have to weed through so much stuff. Dr. Scifi, I think you'll find the kind of stuff you are looking for over there.

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    13. Dr. G. I visited there some time ago. Not my taste. I am comparing this site to some times in its own past...

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    14. Why is it not your taste?

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    15. I dunno, I kinda chuckled at some of it like faking like you care about 9/11, or one person said their special ability is smelling bacon, he can sense out a cop within a 5 mile radius lol :P

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    16. Dr. Ginger, from my pov the other site mentioned is full of dumb, inarticulate people.

      About this site, if it were only non-disordered or non-socios here then for me it would be boring.

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    17. "the other site mentioned is full of dumb, inarticulate people."...I know, there's always some kinda compromise isn't there : /

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    18. I agree, Dr. SciFi. The people on that site are inarticulate, and there is no fun in that. In addition to it, and this is what I meant by refraining from talking about it with Dr. Ginger, because it nauseates me, there is pornography on it including the pictures of underage girls (very young ones), along with comments from posters saying that it is alright and overall, nothing wrong for sociopaths to engage in such things - absolutely sickening, vulgar, no morals whatsoever when it comes to these things, and altogether brainless. I like having fun, too, but certainly not in that kind of base, low scene/setup.

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    19. Dr. Ginger, the whole site is that way. It leaves nothing for compromise. Read my latest response to Dr. SciFi. Do you call that fun?
      Speaking about fun, I like intelligent humor, some satire depending on how it's done, and the ability to involve the kind of creativity that is EVOLVED. Sure, I'm not asking for extraordinary brilliance, but there must be something there that engages the mind, especially if it's a humorous situation. I also like highly intellectual, albeit unconventional, subject-matter, which can vary in its position-angles/discussion-angles.

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    20. Dr. Ginger, the web is also full of sites where nons get together to share their experiences and understanding of sociopaths and people with personality disorders. The group think that dominates those sites goes beyond dumb at times. I often get blocked or locked out for presenting some evidence from research with citations etc. == for not conforming to group think. Basically they see me as a traitor when I don't agree or presume that the truth as they claim it is necessarily the truth as it is... those are the least humorous places on earth that I have found - besides tax law.

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    21. There are so many ways I could respond to this. For one, the way that I am educated, a social scientist should really try to refrain from moral judgment if they want to learn about other people. I’ve never been the best at imposing any kind of moral authority anyway, my exception probably being my feminism. Also, I’m kind of experiencing a backlash right now. There are frequently political undertones to what I do, and there are so many expectations placed on our behavior in society, and especially being female that if someone gives me a space where I feel I don’t have to subvert my personality for awhile, and just be who and what I am, even if some of what they do or say is a little weird, I wouldn’t try controlling them either. I don’t know that I would be morally offended by the pictures you describe, but again, part of that has to do with how psychologists are trained. Some, I suppose, are better at detaching than others. Some still remain relatively emotional.

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    22. "I don’t know that I would be morally offended by the pictures you describe, but again, part of that has to do with how psychologists are trained."

      Dr. Ginger,

      You don't find it morally wrong and violative to look at pornographic pictures of underage girls (10, 11, 13 and so forth?), and, in addition, you don't find it so when others engage in such disturbing situations? Psychologists are certainly not trained in the way that you believe.

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    23. “Psychologists are certainly not trained in the way that you believe.” Actually they really are. There are a lot of different areas a psychologist can go in to, but think about one who goes in to the area of clinical psychology. You might deal with rapists, child molesters, people who have physically harmed others, people who have done the most atrocious things imaginable…now imagine what happens if you have a sensitive, overly emotional psychologist, and the effect it will have on the individual dealing with these things day in and day out. They would crumble, and fall apart. You have to train individuals to have a certain degree of detachment from these situations in order to be effective.

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    24. Doctor SciFi, conforming to group think when my OWN ideas differ is not something that I would do either. Plus, I never conform to anything, because it is not a part of me and what I believe in, and, what's more, it doesn't feel like it speaks to me in any way that I can relate to without feeling dissatisfied. Overall, I always stand up for my beliefs no matter who disagrees with me. If they view my thinking or behavior as unconventional, then that is quite alright with me.

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    25. Hey... I'm one of those "dumb, inarticulate people" that post to the forum. >:(

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  4. I'd like to see this one. I also really enjoyed Gone Girl, which featured a pretty interesting sociopath character.

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  5. Doctor SciFi,

    It is possible for a reason I am about to mention, but I don't look at it in terms of sociopath or non-sociopath topics or articles, because, ultimately, that doesn't really matter so much. When it comes to these particular articles or material, I believe that it depends on the reader's level of education and ability to grasp the subject-matter being presented with, as well as being able to analyze things in a way that is unconventional in some instances {not all instances per se, but some of them do need a more open-minded and unique way of viewing things - a more thinking outside the box type of perspective}. As I wrote in my last comment, the articles or questions these pose are thought provoking and what they really need is more educated, in-depth and subject-related responses, so that it would make the experience more engaging for those who are really looking to think, expand their minds and/or develop more understanding. Also, there's always a creative way of viewing things and commenting on them, not always debating things or being confrontational. Sure, there is such a thing as a good debate for the consideration of more than one, fixed viewpoint, but there is also the engaging possibility of one person learning from another in more creative and unconventional ways.

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  6. Dr. Ginger, I have phrased my question, "You don't find it morally wrong and violative to look at pornographic pictures of underage girls (10, 11, 13 and so forth?), and, in addition, you don't find it so when others engage in such disturbing situations?" as clearly as you have written these words, "I don’t know that I would be morally offended by the pictures you describe...." The issue here was not about the job and/or function of a psychologist, and the sensitivity or detached attitude or training of a psychologist dealing with child molesters or rapists. That is a separate issue altogether. Again, I posed my question directly to you. Is there any chance that you were confused or did not understand exactly what I had asked, because, as you should be able to see things now, I was being quite straightforward?

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    Replies
    1. It's interesting because you would think it would be a separate issue. You would think I could leave work, and go back to being "normal", but it's hard to escape that way of thinking. I don't see anything wrong with emotions. I'm glad people get emotional over things. Intense emotions can achieve a lot of things, and get a lot accomplished. I also recognize people ideas of morality can benefit me. Take a serious issue such as environmental devastation for example. If people begin to get political over it, and experience intense emotions, they may be able to influence corporations and governments to change. If I'm exposed to these issues, I'm probably going to go in to more of a detached state, and examine it without all of the emotions. It isn't necessarily a conscious decision, it's automatic at this point. I can feel the change like a switch is flicked. It's from years of being trained to be detached when exposed to stimuli that might normally elicit a strong emotional reaction in someone.

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    2. Dr. G, I found that dealing with a teenager can induce a form of this kind of detachment at least for awhile.

      I'm with you on emotions -- how important they are to most peoples lives, indeed how they experience life. On the other hand, making important decisions solely on the basis of emotions == well, it's almost a cultural ideology that people choose their mates by 'falling in love' for example without looking critically at the other person wrt their own needs.

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    3. Well, Dr. Ginger, environmental law and its regulations is something completely different from what we were previously discussing, but, once again, you have avoided answering my question in a straightforward manner. I did not pose a leading question, nor was I looking for the presence of apparent emotions, or for a way to reach a state of detachment when finding yourself in such situations. Those things are beside the point, and the nature of the discussion was completely different. It was a simple and clear question in search for a simple and clear answer.

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    4. "Dr. G, I found that dealing with a teenager can induce a form of this kind of detachment at least for awhile."

      Doctor SciFi is incorrect.

      As to the bit about emotions, making important decisions solely on the basis of emotions is not a smart thing to do in SOME situations. However, falling in love is all about heightened emotions, deepest feelings and following your heart/soul. It is never an intellectual decision based on the assessment of wants and needs. True, a once-in-a-lifetime love, THE love of your life, can ONLY happen that way. It is never a logical decision based on your wants/needs or the wants/needs of your partner. Love is so much more than that - a most extraordinary and distinctive thing.

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    5. Dr. SciFi,

      Being incorrect is alright. Really, no one is infallible. There is also a way to disagree with someone without trying to make them sound less than what they truly are in real life.

      As to the rest of what you've written, you've obviously never been in love, that extraordinary, inimitable kind of love that makes you feel ALIVE.

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    6. "you've obviously never been in love..." your writing this doesn't make it so. Do you see the difference? As for the rest of what i read, it's in a similar vein.

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    7. Dr. Ginger, in case you don't see the reply I just sent to Doctor SciFi. It will clear things up for you. Simply.

      “Dr. G, I found that dealing with a teenager can induce a form of this kind of detachment at least for awhile. ---- it's almost a cultural ideology that people choose their mates by 'falling in love' for example without looking critically at the other person wrt their own needs. --- I often get blocked or locked out for presenting some evidence from research with citations etc.”

      My reply to you, Doctor SciFi, true and to the point: “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” A.E.

      Also, Doctor SciFi, “in a similar vein”: “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.” A.E.

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    8. "you've obviously never been in love..." your writing this doesn't make it so. Do you see the difference? As for the rest of what i read, it's in a similar vein."

      I didn't write it, Doctor SciFi. You wrote it.
      As to what you came back with today, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." A.E.

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  7. Also, Dr. Ginger, there is absolutely nothing funny about this: "I dunno, I kinda chuckled at some of it like faking like you care about 9/11,..." Do you not see the INNER PROBLEM with this, having to do with your lack of empathy? Do you think that you can change that in your mind if you had lost, let's say, your husband or your child at that time? In a therapeutic sense, is there a way to truthfully check your level of empathy if you'd think DEEPER about such things, starting with the loss of immediate family members? Then, you can think further and work on raising that empathy level by direct association, which will lead you to not finding it funny the next time you happen to read such a profoundly sad thing again.

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    1. I acknowledge that I have a lack of empathy a lot of times. I don't think I ever denied that however, I'm more capable of feeling it, at least for certain things, on an emotional level, than sociopaths are.

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    2. Right, Dr. Ginger, but you can deal with that by working on your impulses and immediate brain reactions (receptors), because that is why you chuckled. However, once you catch that impulse on your own (it can happen once you practice), or once you're made aware of it, you can work on it by changing your views based on direct association to ideas that actually work for you (personalized). That, in turn, will also re-adjust and heighten the level of your empathy.

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    3. Stay smart, you keep cracking the whip, girl. Maybe you will instill adequate/normal feelings into bdps and socios by trying to make them feel bad and ashamed...

      What is your story? Why are you in this site?

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  8. I saw this on the Huffingglue Post and I thought some of these were hysterical!!!

    I resemble those comments...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/madeline-wahl/10-lessons-you-learn-from-assholes-in-your-life_b_5891250.html

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  9. “Dr. G, I found that dealing with a teenager can induce a form of this kind of detachment at least for awhile. ---- it's almost a cultural ideology that people choose their mates by 'falling in love' for example without looking critically at the other person wrt their own needs. --- I often get blocked or locked out for presenting some evidence from research with citations etc.”

    My reply to you, Doctor SciFi, true and to the point: “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” A.E.

    Also, Doctor SciFi, “in a similar vein”: “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.” A.E.

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    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous said...
    It's nice to see this being discussed on this site. As a man with aspergers in a long term relationship with a woman who is a sociopath I watched this movie last night with interest. I had him pegged as a sociopath quite early and I also painfully recognised alot of his interactions with his poor sidekick, who incidentally and also like me, also wasted heart, words, and time trying to educate his sociopath with an open and honest heart only to have reality twisted. The most painful part of this movie for me is even when his partner was lying on the floor dying and accusing Louis of being sick, he still dies with doubts about his perception of reality after Louis counter comments. All so very sad for those who recognise such behaviour.
    For anyone curious about why I'm still in my relationship. . . . . I don't fully know yet.

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  12. Nightcrawler feels like it's been building in Dan Gilroy for years. The director and his star have something interesting and even exciting on their hands. It's pretty can't miss stuff.

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  13. JG is masterful. One would meet this character and last about two minutes before running away. Joins Travis Bickell and all the other freaky movie characters. Tremendous character creation. Great car chase. Highly enjoyable.

    Marlene
    You won't believe this Pottery Glendale AZ

    ReplyDelete

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