Saturday, November 15, 2014

Attached (part II)

A reader updates us on whether he was forming genuine emotional attachments to things and people:

I wrote to you a year ago about my efforts to resume a prior persona. I questioned whether vigorous application of myself to my reality would result in forming the same kinds of emotional connections that empaths form.  You wondered if I just grew attached to these people like I would a good pair of tennis shoes.  After a year of having resumed this life, I have to confess that you were right.  Just like I prefer to hang certain pieces of art in my living room, I prefer to adorn my life and surroundings with a certain group of people.  I've lost some of them this year already through social attrition and even death, and honestly, aside from the initial sense of disruption, I haven't been moved much by those losses.  At the end of the day, I just prefer how these people, this location, this life, accessorizes me.

The greatest surprise that I faced was assuming that the relationships would have existed in a kind of stasis.  I walked back into this life with bridges that I left fairly unsinged, and was met with varying levels of resistance--from passive aggressiveness or social avoidance to outright anger.  Conversations that were run of the mill the last time I was here were met with hostility or annoyance.  All because I had transitioned to a different place in life.  It actually was kind of funny, the ego-stroking and strategically timed "emotional conversations" that were necessary to resume my place in the social pecking order of these groups.

My efforts at resuming this life, and the long route I took reminded me of a past conversation.  Right around the time I was making this transition, I was talking to a friend who's clearly like me (whether she realizes exactly what she is or not).  I told her that she and I are like canines while most people are sheep.  But we have a choice.  We can be wolves or sheep dogs.  My transition back into this life, with its surprises about people's emotional buttons, certainly tested my resolve as to which role I wanted to fill--whether to rampantly exploit emotional buttons to get what I wanted through the shortest path possible, or to take the difficult and more patience-testing path of simply allowing them to come around on their own with only gentle nudging.

I wish I could say that I did it because it would have felt wrong to take the shortcut.  The power I feel when I push emotional buttons actually would've felt better in the short-term.  But I like to keep my pets happy.  Makes life more interesting that way, and helps me "attune" myself to more prosocial behaviors so that my act is seamless.  But I have to admit to myself now that if I lost any of these people I'd just find a replacement.  But at least I'd water it and feed it and if it came down to it, kill any wolves that wanted to eat it.


118 comments:

  1. "All because I had transitioned to a different place in life."

    Patience is a virtue.

    ReplyDelete
  2. M.E. You should create a label for Attachment, this seems to be the sociopaths' equivalent version to long term relationship, emotionally mature attachment is different than this, but hey, if the sheep don't know then who cares?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "...if the sheep don't know then who cares?"

      Morbid Polar,

      “And although Morbid Polar broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
  3. Perhaps since the sheep and pet analogies work well, instead of attachment, you can call it sheparding.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is after all more of an ownership

      Delete
    2. 2nd Morbid's suggestion. Is there a lot to this point or is it in the end a simple question?

      Delete
    3. "I really liked this post."

      Is that the truth, Doctor SciFi?
      So far, based on what I'm seeing, you do not share the writer's thoughts on today's topic.

      Delete
    4. Doctor SciFi,

      It is not always a matter of having power or powerlessness.

      Delete
    5. "Some people will believe anything to keep from facing their powerlessness"

      Anonymous,

      “And although [Anonymous] broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
  4. Some people will believe anything to keep from facing their powerlessness

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I disagree with you here, because some things are not about power or lack thereof. And as I wrote to Doctor SciFi yesterday, there is also a way to disagree with someone who knows what they're doing without trying to make them sound less than what they truly are in real life. Here is an example of it, along with replies from yesterday and today:

      “Dr. G, I found that dealing with a teenager can induce a form of this kind of detachment at least for awhile. ---- it's almost a cultural ideology that people choose their mates by 'falling in love' for example without looking critically at the other person wrt their own needs. --- I often get blocked or locked out for presenting some evidence from research with citations etc.”

      My reply to you, Doctor SciFi, true and to the point: “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” A.E.

      Also, Doctor SciFi, “in a similar vein”: “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.” A.E.

      "you've obviously never been in love..." your writing this doesn't make it so. Do you see the difference? As for the rest of what i read, it's in a similar vein."

      I didn't write it, Doctor SciFi. You wrote it.
      As to what you came back with today, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." A.E.

      As today's topic/article also suggests, thinking differently, having patience and seeing things from a different perspective, as well as going through with your plan is what makes things happen.

      Delete
  5. This was posted a couple of days ago.

    Where's part I?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Only the Paranoid SurviveNovember 15, 2014 at 7:18 PM

      part I
      http://www.sociopathworld.com/2013/02/attached.html

      Delete
  6. "But at least I'd water it and feed it and if it came down to it, kill any wolves that wanted to eat it." I chuckled when I read this. I hope Stay Smart doesn't get mad at me : /

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dr. Ginger,

      Truth. I have never been mad when writing my comments on this site. That is a false impression that you seem to have, and know that you are not the only person who thinks so on this site, but that is for a reason which I have found to reflect the state of mind of the person thinking so of me. I have been calm, and remember that everyone's mode of writing, expression, unconventional thinking (if applicable), perspective and sense of humor differs. However, and quite to the point, don't confuse such things with anger.

      Delete
    2. I hate to see you when you're mad then. I might get all caps.

      Delete
    3. Dr. Ginger,

      "I hope Stay Smart doesn't get mad at me : /"

      I see, so this is what you were trying to do yesterday during our discussion about those pornographic pictures that are posted on that other site (sociopath-community.com).

      "Peeves," as I wrote earlier, I was not angry, but at least, I presently know your reason for having written such a thing to me yesterday, and then avoided answering my question in a straightforward way. I'm glad that's cleared up.

      Every time you get angry, you poison your own system. I don't. Simple.

      Delete
  7. Could someone clue me in on the lack of emotion "the dull affect," that
    Sociopaths display EVEN when caught red handed in their crimes? From
    where do they get their composure.
    I've seen interrogation films of Sociopaths who are 99% likely guilty, yet they
    are completely non-plused.
    Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias. Cool calculating liars. Not at all worried. And
    even when they are incarcerated it's no big deal. Obviously if they had the
    choice they would be free, but even jail is no big deal.
    Now I understand why Psychopaths would be unafraid. They lack that brain
    chemical that begins with an "A", but why Sociopaths? Could abuse REALLY
    turn a person into a Sociopath and be indistinguishable from a Psychopath?
    In male/female serial killer teams, the male is usually the Psychopath and the
    woman a Sociopath. Psychopaths get started young and commit their crimes
    often. Sociopaths can start as late as their middle 20's. Casey was 22 and Jodi
    28 when they began their "carriers." If they did anything prior to that, it was only
    lies and under-the-rador crimes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My friend always says, you're not a murderer until you kill someone. People can end up killing someone at any age. Look at Curtis Reeves. He was 71.

      Delete
    2. It seems like you are making a lot of assumptions in your comment. The men are usually the psychopaths and the women are sociopaths? Now how do you know that? Haven't you ever seen some of these episodes of Deadly Women where an elderly woman becomes a serial killer? Are you an ageist? Stop stereotyping.

      Delete
    3. "Could someone clue me in on the lack of emotion "the dull affect," that
      Sociopaths display...."

      Anonymous,

      You are confused here. What is correctly called flat affect, not "dull" affect, is present in schizophrenic people as opposed to sociopaths or psychopaths. It is caused by the deterioration of the four major dopamine pathways in the brain, affecting a person's major cognitive function and, consequently, IQ level. Sociopaths and psychopaths are highly intelligent throughout their lives (some becoming even smarter as they get older and gain more knowledge and skills) as opposed to the high number of schizophrenic people whose health and/or cognitive ability deteriorates as they get older, unable to fight the damage and irreversible effects of the disorder.

      Delete
    4. Also, Anonymous, since the disorder affects the four major dopamine pathways of the brain, it impacts and lowers a schizophrenic's person both intellectual and emotional IQ levels. However, to be fair and true, some are smarter than others, because it all depends on the IQ levels they began with before the schizophrenia became full-fledged and then deteriorating rapidly after a certain stage and/or age.

      Delete
    5. "Could someone clue me in on the lack of emotion "the dull affect," that
      Sociopaths display EVEN when caught red handed in their crimes?"

      Anonymous,

      On being caught red handed in such crimes (HATS):

      “And although [Anonymous] broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
  8. Someone emailed this to me today, and I'm having a hard time making sense of what he is trying to say. Is "autist" suppose to be autistic? I'm not sure autistics have a lot in common with borderlines.

    Maybe u read this [Von Ulrike Bohle [Psychotherapeutin (HPG) und Borderlinerin] Borderlinehymne. Von den Vorurteilen her wäre ich liebe ein Bordeliner als ein Autist. Beide haben viele Gemeinsamkeiten...]

    Ulrike Bohle write the "hymne of borderline". and she has the diagnose "borderline".

    Because the jaundices I would be a bordeline than people with the diagnose "autist". Autist and borderline have many things in commoning. In a partnership and friendship it is better with a borderline as Autist.

    What do think about it? If u Dr. u are genius, or?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dr. Ginger,

      The person who sent this gibberish is obviously being intentionally mean toward you. It looks to me like "hate mail." It sounds like an attempt to make you feel less than the person you are in real life, this person erroneously saying that it's better to be a borderline as opposed to being autistic when involved in a friendship (with them?). Again, don't believe such nonsense, because it's not true. I would completely disregard the gibberish of this nitwit, and dump it into your trash bin - where all of it belongs.

      Autistic people do not have things in common with borderlines. The two are quite different, one being the way a person's brain is wired, and the other being a mental disorder. Thus, the two cannot and should not be compared, since it would make no sense in real life.

      "What do think about it? If u Dr. u are genius, or?"

      It can certainly be true, since some autistic people are high functioning and highly intelligent. And while there are lots of unknown autistic people who have exceedingly high IQ levels (both intelligence and emotional), here are some that are more known to us:

      Famous People With or Had Autism

      50 Tyson - rapper and autism activist
      Albert Einstein - Einstein had difficulty with social interactions, was very intelligent but had difficulty learning in school.
      Alexis Wineman - The first Miss America contestant with autism to compete in the Miss Montana pageant.
      Alonzo Clemons - American clay sculptor
      Amadeus Mozart - Famous musician.
      Amanda Baggs - advocate of rights for autistic people
      Bhumi Jensen - grandson of Bhumibol Adulyadej, King of Thailand
      Birger Sellin - German author
      Christopher Knowles - American poet
      Daniel Tammet - British autistic savant
      Daryl Hannah - The actress talked to People Magazine about being diagnosed with autism as a child, and how it contributed to a fear of fame as an adult.
      Derek Paravicini - blind British musician
      Elisabeth Hughes - Author
      Evgeny Kissin - Russian pianist
      Gary Numan - Singer and songwriter
      Henriett Seth F. - Hungarian autistic savant, poet, writer and artist
      James Durbin - American Idol frontrunner
      James Hobley - British dancer and 2011 Britain's Got Talent finalist
      James Henry Pullen - gifted British carpenter
      Jason McElwain - high school basketball player
      Jessica-Jane Applegate - Paralympic swimmer
      Jonathan Jayne - contestant on American Idol
      Jonathan Lerman - American artist
      Leslie Lemke - blind American musician
      Luca Brecel - Belgian professional snooker player.
      Lucy Blackman - university educated author
      Marty Balin - singer and songwriter with Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship
      Matthew Laborteaux - Actor
      Matt Savage - U.S. jazz prodigy
      Peter Tork - Musician
      Richard Wawro - Scottish artist
      Stephen Wiltshire - British architectural artist
      Temple Grandin - The Colorado State University calls her "the most accomplished and well-known adult with autism in the world."
      Thristan Mendoza - Filipino marimba prodigy
      Tito Mukhopadhyay - author, poet, and philosopher
      Todd Hodgetts - Paralympic shot putter
      Tony DeBlois - blind American musician
      Vincent Philip D'Onofrio - (born June 30, 1959) is an American actor, director, film producer, writer, and singer. He is known for his roles as Private Leonard Lawrence (Gomer Pyle) in the war film Full Metal Jacket, "Edgar" in Men in Black and Detective Robert Goren in the crime TV series Law & Order: Criminal Intent. In this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvI6pMyAMHk&feature=youtu.be) Vincent relates his personal struggles with autism and dyslexia and his autism advocacy efforts.

      Famous People with High-functioning autism

      Caiseal Mor - author, musician, and artist
      Courtney Love - frontwoman of Hole
      Dylan Scott Pierce - wildlife illustrator
      Hikari Oe - Japanese composer
      Jim Sinclair - autism rights activist
      Michelle Dawson - autism researcher and autism rights activist
      Temple Grandin - food animal handling systems designer and author

      Delete
    2. Stay Smart,

      Thanks, it's appreciated, but actually no one really knows I have it except for the things I have said on this site, and the attorney that I just mentioned. It was something that was sent to me on linkedin. I've brought up a number of controversial topics on the psychology network on linkedin, and I think it's in response to something that was said on there.

      Delete
    3. By the way,

      I told him I apologize, but I was having a difficult time understanding what he was trying to communicate because I only speak English, and this was his response:

      What do u mean with difficult time?
      I try to famulation this with outher words
      Autism and Borderline are very diffuse.
      An Autist and a borderline have points, wich identic. Because of the jaundices I would be a Bordeline and not an autist. I cuold live together with a feamale borderline but not so realy with feamale autist.
      Somtimes I think the doctor was change the diagnosis Bordeline and Autism. My question is: Is the text, wich do u read now, objective right or not? Do u listen to from the famouse feamale borderline Ulrike Bohle?

      Delete
    4. "Ulrike Bohle write the "hymne of borderline"."

      Dr. G, I read that hymn at an english translation: http://blackangels-borderline-infos.de.tl/Borderline-Hymne.htm.

      Does it come across to you as authentic as a borderline perspective?

      Delete
    5. hmmm that didn't take me to the English translation...can you send me another link to it?

      Delete
    6. my version of google chrome asks if i want a translation. i am not sure what to suggest as I think all versions ma be in german on the web.

      Delete
    7. I put part of it in google translate, and it doesn't always translate things perfectly, but it sounds like it was pretty dramatic. Borderlines can have a bit of a flair for the dramatic.

      Delete
    8. I thought this one was interesting

      https://beyondtheborderlinepersonality.wordpress.com/category/high-functioning/

      Delete
    9. Dr. Ginger,

      "I told him I apologize, but I was having a difficult time understanding what he was trying to communicate because I only speak English, and this was his response:"

      Acceptance.

      Also, if this person keeps sending you hate mail in such a derogatory manner, there is always legal action that you can take against him, since he is a male.

      Delete
    10. Either you a stupid ho or you didn't read that shit

      Delete
    11. "Either you a stupid ho or you didn't read that shit"

      Anonymous,

      “And although [Anonymous] broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
    12. Only read the german version "Hymne auf und an alle Borderliner" and I liked it. It is about the variety of human condition. It says "trust in your borderliner being, although you are feeling as an outsider or not understood....just open your heart to those, who is able to understand you and love you"

      I can't see any hate mail in there. It says, that you should accept your "brokenness" It is nice. Thank you for sharing.

      Delete
    13. Now I would like to read a good translation - I speak enough German to get drunk and slapped but not enough to get through a poem and have any real understanding of it.

      I also wasn't able to follow the link -

      I like aspects of my "Borderline Being." One aspect of it is that it allows me to be every open to new experiences in a way that I don't think my "nom" friends are.

      And, I like the notion of accepting and loving how you are different and surrounding yourself with people who can understand and love you.

      It sounds like a very nice poem.

      Delete
  9. "...or to take the difficult and more patience-testing path...."

    Yes, I like this thought in particular, as well as the overall message of the article. I can certainly see the value in having patience and staying with "problems" longer. The end result can possibly become what we have initially envisioned.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Dr. G, from your perspective are borderline people, as a group, more or less predictable than sociopaths?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm still learning about sociopaths, but borderlines have the copyright on unpredictability. It's why there is a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells".

      Delete
    2. Yes, indeed copyleft copyright... I meant something more specific than how people in general are perceived as being predictable... of course it depends on aptititudes and specializations of the observer to is skilled in observation of all those difficult sorts of people...

      so it looks to me, if I could venture a guess, just because I want to demonstrate the question, since you are still learning about sociopaths is it the case they are less predictable to you as a group than borderlines?

      Delete
    3. btw i was also musing on a topic from a few days ago -- I think it was N's suggestion to look at disordered pairs in relationships. and then how funny it would be to read realistic, insightful fictional or otherwise stories of some of these relationships. I don't think people coudl really appreciate how these things go without having in spread out before their eyes, in a way technical words can not do.

      Delete
    4. If I was forced to choose which one is more predictable, I guess I would say bpd, but that could be because I understand how it works. Others think it's a nightmare because they can't figure it out. I have a friend who is an attorney that said I'm a puzzle that just can't be solved. He's been trying to figure me out for years. The thing with borderline pathology is it evolves and adapts. If someone starts to nail a borderline to the wall, they'll change. It's like trying to eat jello with a hot fork. In fact I call borderlines the jellos. No getting mad borderlines, I'm one of ya'll, so I get to say things :P

      Delete
    5. Dr. G, about an author of 'tales of disordered love', written from the inside out, I think it must got to be a borderline who could write these vignettes, collection of stories, mass sales to all those women who read romance novels too, and love stories, or maybe a collection of people.

      About being a puzzle that just can't be solved, for some odd reason I have not been finding myself trying to solve a puzzle -- idk I don't feel all that puzzled by your here.

      Delete
    6. Doctor SciFi,

      Your comments to Dr. Ginger have become "inarticulate" in some specific places.

      Courage is fire and bullying is smoke. It's the bully who is insecure. As I denoted before and I am writing this in here with great emphasis, since I have mentioned it in more than a couple of my comments, there is always a way to communicate with a person without trying to make them sound less than what they truly are in real life.

      Delete
    7. Only the Paranoid SurviveNovember 16, 2014 at 10:57 AM

      They are both predictable, you just need to keep in mind that they should not be trusted.

      Delete
    8. OTPS, you are correct. These days I find that I trust no one new. I routinely ask myself if they are lying etc. that's a new experience. Do you associate fear with paranoia?

      Delete
    9. I don't blame you for not trusting us, Paranoid. It's one of the reasons I don't tell anyone I have it. I think one of the reasons the borderline advocates get so worked up about stigma is because they have gone, and told everyone they have it, and now everyone is afraid of them. I tell borderlines never to tell anyone they have it. The fact is, there's a reason there's stigma around the disorder, and we've done things to earn the fear and concern people have about bpd. I do my very best to try and not hurt others, but I can't always make any guarantees. When you look at sites of attorneys who defend psychologists against psychology board investigations, you will notice on all of their sites there is a section about BPD, and how it's the population you have to be most concerned about. Rather than some of what is occurring in borderline advocacy, borderlines need to accept and take responsibility for their abusive behavior, and recognize how much damage and destruction they can cause.

      Delete
  11. There are many definitions of the word 'mad'. I don't know how that is related to predictability in this type of question...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "There are many definitions of the word 'mad'. I don't know how that is related to predictability in this type of question..."

      Doctor SciFi,

      On predictability:

      “And although Doctor SciFi broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
  12. "There are many definitions of the word 'mad'. I don't know how that is related to predictability in this type of question..."

    Doctor SciFi,

    "How strange to have failed as a social creature -- even criminals do not fail that way -- they are the law's ''Loyal Opposition,'' so to speak.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Stay smart, you probably think of yourself as a very smart person and a very good communicator, is that right? Perhaps your IQ has been recently tested? Newly anointed Mensa member? You often do come off as angry, though you say you are not, and somewhat of a bully or at least trying to belittle people and their ideas on this site, though you have said that "there is always a way to communicate with a person without trying to make them sound less than what they truly are in real life".
    I don't get it. Either you are completely oblivious to how your comments are perceived, or you are trying to get a rise out of people? Or is it something else altogether?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lol!
      That pretentious windbag a Mensa member?
      More likely one who took an online IQ test over and over again until the results showed around the 130 mark.

      Personally, I don't give a damn why that obnoxious and likely autistic ass is here. She seems to have nothing of value to contribute.

      Delete
    2. "Lol!
      That pretentious windbag a Mensa member?
      More likely one who took an online IQ test over and over again until the results showed around the 130 mark.

      Personally, I don't give a damn why that obnoxious and likely autistic ass is here. She seems to have nothing of value to contribute."

      Anonymous,

      “And although [Anonymous] broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
    3. Anon, if she is autistic, which has crossed my mind, she deserves a voice. If she is a bully with an overinflated view of herself, less so. I detect a hint of paranoia as well in her comment at 0157.

      Delete
    4. "I detect a hint of paranoia...."

      “And although the [OldAndWise - a.k.a. Hubris] broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

      Delete
    5. "Lol!
      That pretentious windbag a Mensa member?
      More likely one who took an online IQ test over and over again until the results showed around the 130 mark.

      Personally, I don't give a damn why that obnoxious and likely autistic ass is here. She seems to have nothing of value to contribute."

      Anonymous,

      A word of advice -
      Rage, envy, false pride - learn to keep them in check.

      Delete
    6. What glorious proof of her "genius". Trolling in a particularly lame fashion.
      O&W, I agree with you. As an autistic, she should deserves a voice.

      However, her greatly overinflated ego, verbosity and juvenile bullying tactics take too much away from anything worthwhile she might have to offer.

      It would be akin to sifting through a pile of horseshit looking for a quarter. Hardly worth the effort. At least for me.

      Delete
    7. Apologies for error.
      *surely, not should.

      Delete
    8. Your envy:

      What glorious proof of her "genius". Trolling in a particularly lame fashion.
      O&W, I agree with you. As an autistic, she should deserves a voice.

      Your false pride (grow up):

      However, her greatly overinflated ego, verbosity and juvenile bullying tactics take too much away from anything worthwhile she might have to offer.

      Your rage:

      It would be akin to sifting through a pile of horseshit looking for a quarter. Hardly worth the effort. At least for me.

      OldandWise/Anonymous,

      "The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be
      a fool."

      Delete
    9. We can now add classic projection to the list.

      She seems incapable of understanding that she is nothing but a slight nuisance. Mere words on a page that I, for the most part, choose to not waste my time on. Yet, she seems to crave being significant to the point that she would be an object of envy, never mind rage.

      Clearly, anyone who fails to appreciate her as she feels appropriate must be choking upon their rage at not being blessed with such intellect and insight as herself.

      It is almost enough to make me pity her. Almost.

      Delete
    10. Anonymous,

      Your anger, inability to grasp what is really happening, lack of empathy (you've been bullying that man for a very long time, and not just on this site, since I know who you are) lack of self control and false pride are matchless. Pity yourself for taking this so far.

      I am warning you, if this does not stop here, you will have to suffer the consequences, since I know who you are.

      Delete
    11. What are the consequences?

      Delete
    12. Lol!
      What was this rather poor attempt at cold reading and intimidation supposed to achieve?

      A little word of advice, never threaten that which you cannot or will not do immediately should your threats fail.
      "Empty threats are the last sanctuary of the terminally inept."

      Delete
    13. Dr. Ginger,

      I know who this person is. You have been bullied all day by him, not just today but for a very long time, and not just on this site. There is no empathy and self control in him, based on what I have seen so far. I will no longer respond to him. He is boorish and vicious. Besides, I warned him. I did not make any threats. There is a difference.

      Delete
    14. Warning someone there will be "consequences" unless they do what you want is very much a treat.
      Clearly an empty threat. The last refuge of those drowning in impotent rage. As you seem to be.

      Your attempts at manipulation are juvenile, at best, which casts further doubt in my mind regarding your claims of superior intellect.
      Painting me as Dr Ginger's tormentor to get her to side with you?
      Repeating that you know who I am in an attempt to intimidate me into silence?
      Claiming that you will not respond to me due to my boorish and vicious nature? Of course. Surely it cannot be because you are incapable of proving me wrong regarding my assessment of you.
      Lol!

      Delete
    15. Stay Smart, do I really sound overly self confident and proud? Perhaps you feel that way because you view my earlier comment @0122 as an attack on you? The only reason I told you you come across as a bully is because some of the things you say do make sense, and I beleive you might have interesting things to say. However, whatever it is you want to say is drowned in something difficult to put a finger on. Anger? A feeling of superiority? Paranoia? Wanting to antagonize people? Autism? Or just a difficulty expressing what you think?

      And yes, I absolutely agree with you that "The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."

      Similar to a comment I posted on Aug4 on this site:

      "Personally, I do not mind at all being shown to be stupid. I like a good argument, so if you have one to put forward,‎ please do. A great part of being wise is knowing that you are not, and being receptive to criticism and new ideas. My screen name is tongue in cheek anyway. I am not that old, and I am certainly not that wise."

      Could you please share with us why you are on this site? Use another handle if you want to start fresh.

      Delete
    16. OldAndWise, such a patient person as you are -- more so than I. I'd pay attention to the word 'justice' and 'law' in "Needless to say, it is the "law," and justice must be done."

      thanks for stepping in on this by the way. I doubt I shall have more to say on this subject any time soon.

      Delete
    17. ok, one last remark on this. I can imagine the following scenario as plausible at least that -- let's say that at each moment in time one's history is reinvented to suit one's purpose, in a self-idealizing way. Then each comment received would be viewed in that moment with a completely different historical context, because history had been reinvented. Then comments returned would be totally valid. I'm not saying this is the way it is, but it is one way the law and justice makes sense.

      Delete
    18. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    19. OldAndWise,

      I deleted the previous post because I was not able to edit it for a specific reason that I had in mind.

      I am not autistic, narcissistic, antagonistic, paranoid or a sociopath. As I wrote in a previous post, I am a gifted person, having been tested and identified at a young age. While I do not care about the opinions of others, especially those that are written with so much contempt, I know who I am and how I feel about things. I hope this clarifies things for you, not coming from others and their wrong opinions of me, but coming directly from me.

      Also, I never called you stupid.

      Delete
    20. OldAndWise,

      Also, I have been reading all of the posts to date, and now I see what is really happening. There was some confusion, and you can't blame me, considering the nature of these posts, but things have cleared up quite well. No matter how well equipped one is to see some things, there are times when confusion stands in the way. However, being patient, taking a step back and truly seeing things as they are has made a great difference to me.

      Delete
  14. "I don't get it. Either you are completely oblivious to how your comments are perceived, or you are trying to get a rise out of people? Or is it something else altogether?"

    OldAndWise,

    None of the above.

    There is such a thing as justice when others wear various "hats," and sometimes, when involving yourself in situations of this nature, the "law" will sound unsatisfactory to you. Guaranteed. Needless to say, it is the "law," and justice must be done.

    "There is always a way to communicate with a person without trying to make them sound less than what they truly are in real life."

    I find that what I write is sometimes misinterpreted.

    Now, if you were always OldAndWise....but there are "hats"....

    ReplyDelete
  15. HLHaller, thank you for posting the Huffington post article yesterday. I had a chuckle as well, and so much of it is true!

    Reposting... It is just too good.

    Assholes

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi O&W,

      I'm glad you enjoyed it!

      I'm working my way through a documentary series that I may post on in the near future: The Century of the Self. It came out about 10 years or so ago and I completely missed it at the time. A friend pointed it out to me recently - it's about the use of mass communication for mass control.

      If power is your thing - this might be worth watching. It is LONG - 4 hours worth of long. Have you seen it?

      Cheers!

      Delete
    2. OldandWise brings understanding to the conversations. I agree on your point about StaySmart. I have made some comments before, and even been anonymous I felt it personally his aggressive tone. I wouldn't say he is a "bully" but he acts very "Bullymically". I think the way you put it is very clear. I would also like to know more where all that come from!?

      Mia

      Delete
    3. Hi Mia,

      I enjoy what O&W has to say as well and I'm glad that he "got" the elegance of the post timing -

      As to Stay Smart - I have a difficult time following what they have to say so I choose to ignore what they have to say for the most part. I expect that they will either play out and move one, become more coherent, or piss enough people off to get rat packed.

      I guess I'm not as interested in his/her pathology -

      Whatever the case, the great thing about life it that thing change -

      Delete
  16. Dr. G, that blog you posted on borderline I regard as quite a find -- a real effort made to put that together. Strikes me as authentic, as much as these things can be... Is the author of that blog, Haven, the same one as used to post on sociopathworld?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not sure, but that would be interesting if that was the case.

      Delete
    2. Hi Drs.,

      I'm not sure they are the same gal, but it's sure seems like it.

      Yes, she has done a very nice job of pulling together and commenting on BPD from the inside. The site's been moribund for a couple of months. I hope she gets back to it. She's a good read -

      Delete
    3. Unlike Haven, the author of this laconic post seems laid-back, detached and unemotional about his or her own inner life. He describes preferences, likes and dislikes, and makes choices on those. It is almost as if he were describing a third person rather than himself. BTW the previous post linked to this is also interesting and the comments there are as well.

      Delete
    4. Hi DocSF,

      As they say, "well, THERE's your problem..."

      I saw the link that Dr. G posted:

      https://beyondtheborderlinepersonality.wordpress.com/category/high-functioning/

      and I confused it with:

      http://www.downwardspiralintothevortex.com/

      If you follow the second link, you'll see the source of the confusion. The second link is the one that I was referring to. I can see the difference you are talking about -

      Delete
    5. I like a lot of what she has to say. I liked this post, and can relate to some of it http://www.downwardspiralintothevortex.com/2011/01/my-deadly-sin-criteria-8-anger.html
      There was definitely violence in my youth, although I don't think it was quite to this degree. Unlike her though I did actually receive my diagnosis in my teens when I was only about 14. I was a pretty classic borderline: there was violence, I was in trouble with the law, had little regard for the rules at school, was always truant, and getting suspended. In junior high, the dean even kept my file on her desk because she knew I would be there everyday. I dropped out of high school three days in to it.

      Delete
    6. My only beef is her choice of font colors - pretty but hard on my old eyes...especially when she switches to the darker blue font.

      I do appreciate how systematic she is - it's that engineer thing. 8)~

      Delete
    7. HLHaller, thanks for the heads up. I agree with you about the blog and look forward to reading more there... This might be off topic, but i have wondered about the role of 'hidden cognition' as measured in e.g. implicit association tests, in personality disorders.

      Delete
    8. What I'm learning from all of this though is anyone with a PD should really just talk about their own individual experiences, and not try to generalize, or speak on behalf of the whole population because there are sooo many differences between each person. Ironically, I just came across one of her posts that cites another article that compares BPD and autism. I thought it was funny because of the emails I received today. I've never heard of the two being compared. I want to copy and paste this part of the article though, and then I'll explain why: "Whilst both can have impairments when it comes to empathy, those with Asperger’s do not understand the social norms that go with a situation, whereas someone with BPD may exploit and manipulate the situation.
      Sorry this is the one place I’m going to interject. This whole manipulation thing is overblown and completely misunderstood. People read “manipulation” and think of it in a purposefully trying to take advantage of another person type of way that say, a sociopath might. That’s not what is happening here. With BPD it’s the fundamental lack of communication skills that lashing out from our own internal pain to gain the attention in times of need that is often misconstrued as “manipulation”. It’s not intentional, it just is." Boy oh boy oh boy, lemme tell ya. I used to feel the same way as this author. I used to not understand when people would talk about borderlines being manipulative, but there are some that are fully aware of what they are doing, and constantly manipulate. I've noticed a lot of people who work in the legal field call what psychologists do "manipulation". I've had several now say that to me, and even a judge did. I had to think about it for awhile. I realized there's just no stigma in my field when we supposedly "manipulate" if you will. For most though, it has a negative connotation attached to it.

      Delete
    9. As a teenage boy with poor impulse control, violence was inevitable. But that's not what really drove me - it was a combination of libido, ego (as in playing "who's the man?" rather than the clinical sense), and generally wanting to have a good time, sometimes at other people expense (parasitic more than sadistic). Haven doesn't really get into that particular cocktail.

      However, her postings that analyze specific behaviors/characteristics (e.g. object constancy) are interesting and good food for thought in reflecting on my own "process." It's that analysis of the "elements of the 'problem'" that is in line with my style of self reflection.

      Delete
    10. So you were the promiscuous Casanova...ok, ok I gotcha ;D Ever since superchick posted that article, I've been calling male borderlines Casanovas.

      Delete
    11. Yeah - that "manipulation" thing...

      For my part, I believe that I am usually trying to make those around me "feel" as bad as I'm feeling when I am upset. Is this "manipulation?"

      I say yes and no.

      I can see how it can 'feel' that way to a nom (I'll go with that terminology today...). I am trying "make them feel" which to them is tantamount to any other form of influence. But in that moment, I'm not usually "in control," so I'm not sure I feel like I'm being deceptive. I examine what I am really trying to accomplish, it is simply trying to cope with the storm of emotion that I am experiencing,

      Having said that, I have "expressed/projected" a "manufactured" emotion for a desired effect - THAT is manipulation. I've more or less abandoned that mode of operation (dealing with cashiers and the like is fair game, but in that case I am well aware that I am being manipulative).

      So yeah - it's tricky. Sometimes we are doing it without being aware (being authentic?) and sometimes we are well aware of what we are doing (being manipulative?). It's not always clear to us in the moment,

      ...maybe I should have used "I" instead of "we" ...nah, talking in third person is more fun. ;)~

      Delete
    12. LOL!!! Yup! That was me! 8)~

      That link that Superchick posted hit home for me - when I read that I almost fell out of my chair...

      Delete
    13. Hi Doc SF,

      Can't say as I know much about hidden cognition. It sounds like intuition on the surface, but I'm just pulling that out of my ass -

      I am interested to hear more -

      Delete
    14. Can I share a story? I accepted a position at an inpatient psychiatric facility in an area that I wasn’t living in so I decided to rent a room from someone temporarily until I got situated. She was in her 50’s, and I thought, you know what? This will be nice. She’s an older woman, and it will be a nice, relaxed environment that I can come home to, and study for an exam I was studying for at that time. She had told me there was another guy she was a renting a room out to who had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I thought, not a big deal, whatever. She told me about some of the incidences that had occurred. He was definitely low functioning. He was more the emo-y type rather than the high functioning ones whose aggression seems to be aimed outwards. He had attempted suicide twice in her home while living there. He was also a bit of a klepto, and stole things, and especially went after drugs. I don’t use illegal drugs, but she did, and she did tell me if I have any psych meds to lock them up. Well I do happen to have benzos, and just kept them in my purse. He had serious issues with boundaries, and would treat himself to my stuff all the time. During our interactions he loved to talk about his BPD, and would always tell me he was “manipulative” putting an emphasis on the “u” that would drive me insane. Anyway, the first night I was there it was about 12 at night, and I was going to sleep. She came in to my room crying, telling me her whole life story. I figured it would just be a one time thing. I had noooooo idea what I was in for. I remember during her meltdown she was talking about how she goes downtown, and “parties”. I thought, what weird language to use at your age. Sure enough, this woman would go out allll night, “party”, come home trashed with creepy strangers. She did drugs regularly, she was an alcoholic. She was very promiscuous, and screwed two different guys in a public pool in one week, and really that’s all just the tip of the iceberg.

      Delete
    15. I remember her one day talking about her observing her daughter, while in her teens, and realizing she’s highly manipulative, and treating people basically like chess pieces. I thought what a strange observation. I take a lot of mental notes. I’m kind of like a detective. More and more, after observing her behavior, I realized she noticed the manipulative behaviors because she was so god damn manipulative herself. She would put on this façade of being the nice, sweet, kind, caring, compassionate, gentle grandmother that just made me want to punch her because I knew the truth. She had violent outburst, and even got 86’d from restaurants for her violent behaviors. Was this really my life? Was I really a borderline psychologist living in a household with two borderlines? I got out of there as fast as I could :P

      Delete
    16. AWESOME story!!!

      One of the things I miss about being young is having roommates. They could be serious pains in the ass, but I realized that they could be a source of great anecdote fodder (kind of like dating on singles sites or, if you're as old as I am, the personals of the free weekly papers - Whew!!!).

      I had a roommate as an undergrad that decided that that particular semester was when he would experiment with psychadelics. That was a hell of a ride!!!

      One day I come home from class to see that he's wiped out about half of my Everclear and there was a baggie of mushrooms on the counter. I shrugged and grabbed my things and headed to the computer lab.

      I came home a few hours later to pick up a couple books/notes/whatever. I walk into the apartment and the lights are out and there is grunting coming from his room.

      I shake my head and get back to my computer lab.

      A few hours later I come home to windows smashed from the inside and a trashed apartment (and we lived in a VERY bad neighborhood). After a slow entry while gathering weapons on the way in, I found my roommate laying under the mattress of his bed with pupils the size of beachballs.

      He spent the next couple of hours trying to leave the apartment in the nude and spinning like a whirling dervish round the apartment. After disappearing for a while (I had hoped he passed out), he came back out wearing some tidy whities (and he was a chubby, pale white guy - not the sort of image you want to be stuck with...at least I didn't...). At least I knew he was sobering up.

      His parents were very apologetic.

      Ah yes - I do miss the chaos of youth...

      Delete
    17. ...and yes, Dr. Ginger, please, share stories! 8D~

      Doc SF?

      Delete
    18. Dr. G and HL, great stories...

      HLHaller, I ran across the notion of implicit associations and implicit emotions at the wikipedia page on "implicit association test" (IAT). This test has been used to study various aspects (shame, anxiety, self-esteem etc.) of personality in patients with BPD as well as other conditions. Since I am lazy, and tired and don't have a good grasp of the subject yet (but I think it is quite neat in principle) I'll quote from a random paper to give an idea what it is about. ["Disgust and implicit self-concept in women with borderline personality disorder and posttraumatic stress disorder"]

      "Disgust may operate at explicit levels, accessible by self-report measures, as well as at more automatically activated, implicit levels that can be assessed by response-latency measures such as the Implicit Association Test (described below). A growing literature has shown that more rapid, automatic reactions, which may operate outside conscious awareness and control, can predict behaviours independently of more deliberate, explicit self-reported beliefs [16, 20]. This distinction also applies to a person’s self-concept which is characterized both by explicit, consciously accessible and by implicit-automatic cognitions that are not necessarily congruent. For example, a person with a disgust-prone self-concept may explicitly say ‘I am disgusting’, a statement which is at an implicit level usually accompanied by a variety of affects and memories that the individual may not be aware of. In our study, an implicit-automatic disgust-prone self-concept implies that the concept of Self can automatically activate disgust if these concepts are associated with one another in memory. This automatic activation of disgust can occur whether or not the participant deliberately endorses the proposition to be disgusting her- or himself and whether or not disgust in relation to oneself is consciously experienced by the person. This view of automaticity of emotion is consistent with recent work on implicit or unconscious aspects of emotional reactions [1, 13, 35]. "

      I am not sure this is a very good example though.

      The IAT has often also been used to measure racial and other stereotypes. There's a set of tests on the harvard website one can take. Easy to find with google.

      Delete
    19. Hi DocSF,

      I will look into it more - this sort of thing appeals to my inner nerd (not so deeply hidden *smirk*).

      I'm learning about network analysis as a means of studying organizations and performance. This sounds like it might be an interesting element if I'm reading your example right.

      Thanks!

      Delete
    20. yes network analysis is at the core of this method. That's one thing I like about it. Another is that it is just different than most other approaches.

      Delete
  17. HLHaller,

    “And although HLHaller broke a lot of laws as a teenager, [he] straightened out immediately upon turning eighteen, when [he] realized the state had a legal right to charge [him].”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOL! I guess I'm still a minor...

      Delete
  18. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1TcDHrkQYg

    ReplyDelete
  19. I guess this is as close as I am going to get to meeting real aliens.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If there are social critics who could comment on what has been transpiring, I'd be interested to read that. I'm not sure if RA means alien in terms of incomprehensibility or not.

      Delete
  20. I'd like to tell you about a book I read which might be helpful for you, if you
    can set aside your criticism. The name of the book is called: "Sun Shines:
    "The Astrology Of Being Happy," by Michael Lutin. As with any other unusual
    thing, you will have to set aside your skeptism and see for yourself. The book
    has been out since 2007 and can be easily obtained from your public library.
    I looked up the birth years of Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias. Casey (Born on
    Mar. 19, 1986) Is a Pisces 9. Jodi, (Born on July 9 1980) is a Cancer 8.
    The book would have advised Casey to look at the chapters of "Sex" and
    "Religon." If Jodi could have read the book she would have been refered to the
    chapters of "Sex" and "Freedom." Bear in mind that the book was published in
    2007, one year BEFORE Casey and Jodi were in the media. I also checked the
    birth dates of famous celeberities that had troubles with "sex" like Marylian
    Monroe, Monty Clift and Michael Jackson. Without exception they were directed
    to the "sex" chapter.
    M.E. has just got to get this book. So do you.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I'm going to eat cookies between my breasts. This site makes me excited.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mmm....cookies...

      Delete
    2. Eugh...perverts/impersonators...cheap shot!

      Delete
  22. I have jello on my titties. They're melting and changing into chameleon balloons. Only the lovely doc would decipher my lingo. ;) I read a comment of hers, hit the spot, spot on. I will adapt and change to my environment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You want to play, let's play.
      But tell me first, how are you enjoying my book?

      Delete
    2. I'm enjoying it. I give it to ya -- you're one smart cookie doc. I felt deep compassion reading the opening chapters. :)

      Delete
    3. Lol!
      Just kidding. I'm not doc. I'm the same Anon with a hard on for that narcissistic moron, Stay Smart.
      But nice to see you again, Super Anus Woman.

      Delete
    4. Haha. Your alters are cute. Ok it's not doc now -- anus women and doc had it out before. But anus women was playing with her hubby and was offering support to damage, when that Anon was kinda a meanie to damage with the comments. But sometimes ya gotta air it out. Water under bridge now. K. :-)

      Delete
    5. I bake cookies for doc now. She likes my cookies a lot. We aired it out, but it's quickly forgotten. ��

      Delete
  23. I don't know who you are, you seem like a freak. I genuinely feel sorry for you, but you're too wicked to "decipher my lingo" right.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's so funny how we both sorta feel the same way about one another. Maybe ego's just in the way, idk. :)

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete

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