Wednesday, May 1, 2013

What you can learn from sociopaths (part 1)

From a reader on his experiences with sociopaths ("they let me fool myself") the seeming contradictions of a sociopath, narcissist,-lites, and other gems:


Early on in my life I could spot sociopaths but I didn't know how to qualify them.  There was some discomfort on their parts that I was on to them but they let me fool myself.  They figured out my interpretation of their behavior and then allowed me to think what I wanted to think.  

One can spot the sociopath by their strange lack of vulnerability, the absence of committal statements and their propensity to linger in a group long enough to politic.  These qualities all in one person seemed like a contradiction to me.  It's a contradiction because non-committers show some anxiety and sociopaths do not.   Lingerers are become increasingly committal as the increased time with the group increases their comfort but sociopaths do not commit even when they are supposed to be comfortable.  

I don't consider myself a sociopath but I can appreciate and empathize with their realistic approach to life.  You see I grew up with the exact opposite.  My parent is a narcissist.  It didn't take long for me to learn that as long as the narcissist is receiving his narcissistic supply he will delude himself. Sound familiar? The neurotypical, as long as he is receiving societal approval and validation will delude himself as well.  The average person is a narcissist-lite. 

The realistic aspect of the sociopath is that he understands human nature and coldly uses it to his advantage.  The practical part of the sociopath is that he casts the widest possible social net to influence the greatest number of people - all the while preventing opposition-opposition which would undermine all his hard work.  The authentic part of the sociopath is that he knows what he wants and isn't afraid to get it.  The only difference is the sociopaths authenticity is that it is harmful for him to divulge it. 

The sociopaths authenticity is an impediment when revealed. The sociopath creates rapport without ever divulging his/her "authenticity." Divulging this authenticity is social suicide for the sociopath since society does not accept people that lack empathy and refuse to play by the "rules."  From my observation, however, the sociopath is more authentic a being than both the narcissist and the average neurotypical person.  At least the sociopath is in touch with who he is.  He is someone that knows what he wants and will do whatever it takes to get it.  He is strongly in touch with his desires of the moment. He is not afraid to acknowledge them and is not afraid to risk failure in order to obtain them.  

178 comments:

  1. "He is strongly in touch with his desires of the moment. He is not afraid to acknowledge them and is not afraid to risk failure in order to obtain them."

    I wonder if this is different for a Narc also. Are they much more insecure than Sociopaths?

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  2. If so, I think I have dated Narcs all my life. They start strong, then come of lashing out at me out of insecurity and jealousy.

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  3. I do like the "-lite" suffix. I consider myself somewhere on a sliding scale towards sociopathy, but don't have problems around impulsivity and am not a pathological liar, so I will try on "socio-lite" as a self identifier and see if it fits.

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    1. How about you try being yourself instead of "trying things on". You have a name already. What's a label for. Build your name into the most defining term for you. A thought.

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  4. Everyone has traits.That is what is so interesting. They are coping mechanisms to deal with insecurity and the ways people relate to each other. A lot of it has to do with socio-economics and upbringing.

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  5. Whipped Intimacy AnonMay 1, 2013 at 1:19 AM

    I have a problem. I apologize that this is so very long,

    I "think" i am in love with someone who is probably cheating on me. I THINK I am willing to sacrifice but I suffer.

    I O W I am dick-whipped. It's making me feel I'm compromising and burying my needs. I dont want to feel torn.

    I really like him, but I think I am lying to myself when I tell myself it's fine and I can deal with this cheating because I want to change anyway and be able to date multiple people like he does. If he does. He probably does.

    I dont want to lose him. I dont want to play games and pretend I am seeing others but I get tempted. I think it would be stupid, as men do need to feel master and I want him virile and confident.

    I want him to want me and only me but I think he is just one of those people who dont like to answer to anyone.
    He said he only wants me, and is hell bent on making us work. It has been 2 years.

    This is a problem. I want to get closer but this is preventing me. It sucks and my heart/chest area hurts. and now I think he may be stepping out for the second time. He's a good liar in that he doesnt waver, however, I asked him again again and finally put it a different way and said "what if someone comes along...? He said this "well, I AM a man". He said it honestly, a bit sheepishly, but trying hard to be honest, as I have made it VERY clear I will discontinue the relationship and make him my boytoy if he wants to do this behaviour. He said no. He said he wants to concentrate on me, he wants to make it work, he wants me to give him chance.. I GAVE him a chance the first time.

    I saw in his email a very good friend is trying to set him up with someone, and I saw a text saying "coffee ..a drink would be better"

    My instincts tell me he is not being true but I say I need more proof (I lie to myself) WHat more proof??.. And I dont want to see more proof. I want to lie to myself over and over so I can continue.

    He does not say I love you or sign cards Love, insert his name.

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    1. Whipped Intimacy AnonMay 1, 2013 at 1:21 AM

      continued:

      My male friend tells me to ask him if he loves me. I dont want to do that. I dont think it would matter if he did say it. I think he is a liar.

      I dont think that this one is worth any more time. He has become broke, too! and IF he ever decides he wants to settle with me, i will not get any money.. his kids will. Pfft.


      The problem is I am primarily driven by sex and affection. I get plenty from him

      I cannot tell him i have been snooping.

      Now here is another thing. I actually told him that I dont trust him as far as i can throw him. He was not happy. Then i told him that I do not forsee us in terms of longterm. I told him i thought he was seeing others . He wants me to believe otherwise.

      I am very upset sometimes. I do not want to continue checking his phone. It is killing me. I tell myself every other day I want to break up with him.. Pathetically, I told him i thought he should break up with me because i am too insecure. He knows I am moody bipolar and I always cheer up and change my perspective. Seriously, i do. I can change on a dime when I am so happy with attention and loving gestures. He is the type who calls me and texts me all the time and makes plans in advance (He may be juggling women and getting my schedule first),who apologizes when he is wrong.

      I am very torn every day.

      I read that people who go out with cheaters WANT to go out with cheaters. I think to some extent that I find it sexy that he's a good cocksman (not my word lol. I dont think he sleeps with anyone . Yet). I like it he's got it going on and that he's so fucking sexy, he needs bacon and tuna fish when he has filet mignon at home (I am filet mignon. He's kind of whipped, too. It's true. I wouldn't exaggerate <I like this very much.

      We do not fight. I get weepy about stuff because I have depression, but he says i deal with it so nicely he admires me for it. His ex had depression and put him through hell

      This is all problem. I want to get closer but this is preventing me. It sucks and my heart/chest area hurts.

      I know the socios will say use him for sex until i find another guy who makes my toes curl the same way (who has more money....) I think about this every day now, but it makes me sad/.

      My hairdresser says i should use him for sex and just enjoy him because life is short and if I am happy with all the rest, fuck it and deal, or go out and get another man who will have money to take me places this one cannot afford. The problem with this is I am not really driven by money. Ok yes, i do love money a lot. I mean a LOT.

      ^But I dont know how to do this, ie: be selfish like Monica says is the way to do things.




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    2. I am a serial monogamist not a juggler of men. I have to not lie to myself about this. But i want to try to have peace and feel safe and not get hurt.

      I am a willing victim?

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    3. If you are happy: stay, if you are unhappy: leave. Life is so easy... ;)

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    4. THank you, Jessie.

      I want to stay. but I am both happy and unhappy at the same time.

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    5. "I am a serial monogamist not a juggler of men."

      I am neither of these. I have been alone most of my life. Nor have I ever cheated on anyone. To me that is original sin, worse than murder.

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    6. I think I want/am used to being this way from conditioning, and for some sick reason i won't have my life any other way.

      Must I learn to love this about myself? I don't. It feels weak and i despise weak in me.

      I want more for myself.

      THe scales is tipped now in his favour. I must balance it or I will lose myself and get hurt. I dont want that one more time.

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    7. Well, then at some point the balance will bring you to more happy than unhappy or vice versa. Then take the decision.

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    8. cheating worse than murder huh?

      I take some of that back anyway. I am monogamist and do not want to be serial. I want longevity. I dont want to go from man to man over and over. I want to settle with someone.

      I do not want to be alone. I do not want a hovering husband either.

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    9. I want to know how to balance it.

      Which decision are you talking about?

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    10. It is nonsense to get stack in a situation that is not good for you. Make the step.

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    11. Medusa, I have not cheated either. It isn't me.

      You are happy alone?

      DO you think being happy is irrelevant?

      Mustn't I change my thoughts and give myself integrity so my thoughts and actions match?

      I dont want to be all over the place. Must I accept this and learn to love it the way it is?

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    12. It is not about balancing it. It is about observing reality and taking choices. Either you are rather happy or rather unhappy. The decision depends on how are you feeling on the average. If you consider you are happy enough, stay, otherwise leave. People don't change, you just have to deal with what there is.

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    13. It is nonsense to get stack in a situation that is not good for you.

      I couldn't agree with you more. I am stuck. I do not have a step.

      I am a vacillating waste ;)

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    14. That is good advice, Jessie.

      I hope i will be happy enough on avg.

      THank you .

      Sleep well :)

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    15. Use it as an opportunity for realizing your own hypocrisy, as much as he's using you, you're using him.

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    16. "Mustn't I change my thoughts and give myself integrity so my thoughts and actions match?

      That's up to you and you only. No one is going to make that decision for you unless you are just looking for a temporary solution. If you do let them, it's unlikely you'd be very happy because your mind would be basically kidnapped and raped by the other person if you do, although the rapist might be unaware of what he's doing.

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    17. In case of hesitation and being stuck, a good option is to mirror the other's actions and attitudes. Do what he does. This usually creates enough discomfort on yourself while knowing it is still a fair deal since the other one is doing the same. This also obliges the other to confront his own attitudes. Mirroring an unfair asymmetry creates motion, which is the most important thing when you are stuck.

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    18. Stop fucking him for a while. Orgasms (and it sounds like you're having them with him) produce oxytocin, the "love hormone" that binds you to him. Your rationalizations pale in comparison to that biological, chemical attraction that draws you to him like a paperclip to a magnet. He's poor, has kids, and is probably fucking around on you, but you're so high on love drug that you keep coming back to him like some kind of junkie.

      You're on sociopathworld.com for fuck's sake. If you want the sociopath's opinion, clear your head before you make any major decisions. You wouldn't want to decide whether to buy or sell a car while you're drunk, would you?

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    19. @ Intimacy Anon dear
      I hear you and I feel your pain! I think there is a missing core answer here. I think it is that you don't respect yourself. It is easy for me to say as words are cheap but if you don't get that dose of self respect, he is going to do worse and worse things to you. This is his putting the toe over the line. Either he values you and respects you or you leave( or threaten to leave)

      Between us and to be totally real( as we are on here) if you shake him up by showing strength and self respect even if you don't have it, he will come back if he cares. If he doesn't come back, you have lost a bad penny that will eviscerate you if you hold it in your pocket.

      My advice to someone I loved would be play really, really, really hard to get. Remove yourself until he shapes up. You can't give on essential core matters such as cheating. It would be like giving away a piece of your arm or leg and expecting to be a gymnast. It won't work, dear one.

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    20. THank you so much for your replies.

      Ann Ymous, yes I am aware this is sociopathworld :)

      I shouldn't have the orgasms, huh? -If that's the case I wont be seeing him at all. Good point. Sex is the main ingredient. WIthout that, we'll be over. If I take this decision, it's just nonsensical/waste of time to me.

      But I will need the sexual distance to see clearly. I need to think with the head on my head, not with the one you know where. Yes, yes I agree. I have been thinking about totally taking a break from him anyway. I have issues ignoring my goals when tied up in relationships. I had a mentor who once said that relationships are career breakers. For me, this is a true.

      Monica, I told him I think about seeing other people. I told him i was thinking about taking a break. He asked me if men ask me out. I said yes. He was more all over me the next day. THis was right before the conversation abt him maybe seeing other women.

      WHat do you think of that, Monica? I did break up with him once before over him trying to date others.

      But listen. if you were a guy, wouldnt you feel like i was yoyo-ing you? LIKE ME WITH HIM? Would you take me back and trust I wouldn't leave a THIRD time? He is not a fool/masochist. But he is prob the type who will just say to himself, hey, if she is aware and still with me, she knows what she's getting into. He is selfish. I think he's comfortable bec i am low maintenance and dont project I want big riches or marriage. He knows he is lucky with me.

      But he does't know to what extent i think he is not for me regarding his finances. I lie lie lie about me being ok with that. I'm not.

      Look he may be a cheater, but he does have feelings. My moves will get predictable and get tiresome if i continue to leave and come back. he wont trust me or take me seriously. LIKE I AM FEELING ABOUT HIM. I absolutely do see all this hypocrisy.

      He has changed his habit of not logging off on his accts, so I think he is on to my snooping

      I think i need to just do the thing and dump him for a while (take a few months break) short term at least. I'm not sure he is the type who can stand not being alone.

      I say you are right, Monica. If he wants me he will have to really change. But people do not. I know in my head this is true, but in my heart I believe in fairytales. I am always back to square one going round in circles.

      I agree with you all.

      Medusa, you are especially right. the decision needs to come from my own self authentically.

      Taking a break will serve on all fronts. This is what I shall do.

      Medusa, the rape analogy... wtf, a little over the top, but i hear you.




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    21. Monica, I told him I think about seeing other people. I told him i was thinking about taking a break. He asked me if men ask me out. I said yes. He was more all over me the next day. THis was right before the conversation abt him maybe seeing other women.

      WHat do you think of that, Monica? I did break up with him once before over him trying to date others.

      I have seen so many, many, many woman( and some men) act as if they had self respect. That is all you are doing---demanding simple human respect-- if you are going to be in a relationship with him.

      Get some of those dumb books on "How to Catch a Man". They say this in simple, catchy terms. I know you don't respect yourself now and you feel desperate for him. I understand that and have been there. Most people have but you MUST fake it and he will come back, I bet xxx

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    22. Jessi why is this anon's situation so simple, yet you couldn't figure out yours without advice, which you arrogantly argued with?

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    23. Chet, neither all situations have the same difficulty neither all people have the same difficulty to deal with the same situation. I would not hesitate in her situation, since I don't believe in changing people and she doesn't want to go out with a cheater. Her situation would be easy to deal with for me. Maybe she knows spaths very well and she can easily tell me how to make one just my friend...
      Jessi

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    24. What is friendship if it does not give you sex, money, status, entertainment, or an ally to have when no one else seems to be "on your side"? A lot, if not all friendships benefit the self-serving wants/needs of each member. Your potential friend MAY be more adamant about his, he may be friendly to you in a fleeting way, or his may reject your offer. I may not be a sociopath, but I am candidly selfish and I am very selective with whom I am "friends" with. They must never bore/annoy me. They must be willing to lend me money from time to time if I am desperate. They must never let me feel ignored, but they must accept that I may ignore them at times. They must be at least somewhat creative in their viewpoints. I do not like heavily impressionable people. They mustn't be too loud or energetic. I prefer if they are able to drive me places. I don't like overly romance-crazed ones. They cannot change their plans at my expense. They cannot copy me. That goes with impressionable. There are many conditions so I pretty much have one true friend at the moment, but quality trumps quantity imo so seriously I would try simply having a lot to offer. Dedication tends to be appreciated by all.

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    25. If you would be a spath maybe this list could be for me of some use...
      Jessi

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    26. I am still intetested in spaths but I'm getting bored with my spath. I don't think a low maintenance equilibrium is possible. Power fights are tiring.
      Jessi

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    27. that's the point, jessi. You seem to think there's the default difference between ALL sociopaths and ALL non-sociopaths. But really, it is a human thing to be selfish. You want to get the best out of whatever sort of relationship you end up having with him. In fact, you want to control the very nature of the relationship. Chances are, he wants control and benefits as well. Since you did not give him what he originally sought, you will need to give him something else to make going with your plan worth it. I would think pragmatically and expect neither a favoring nor terrible result. If you don't like any of our advice, have you tried sending M.E an email?

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    28. No, I'm on another task now. If I don't come to good terms with my spath I will expose him.
      Jessi

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    29. Good story. It is funny about cheating, lying men, They are weak. So are the women who are dumb enough to marry them, or think they will rescue them like a knight in shining armor.


      There are no fairy tales. :)

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  6. The text paints the classical cliché of the smart sociopath and the stupid neurotypical when it is obviously not the case. To play with hidden cards is not to be more intelligent, and if the games is long enough, and it is, at the end the winner is always the one who plays better. A non-stupid neorotypical also knows what he wants and he is also not afraid of getting it. Being not afraid to get it doesn’t mean that the best strategy is to use and abuse people. Besides in politics, were people are too unreachable for the mass to be really properly perceived, real leadership and companionship proves better results at getting what you want. The strategy used by the sociopath for reaching his goals leaves him with far too many of fake friends and real enemies, and in life you rather have real friends and fake enemies if you want to get anywhere. The real difference between a sociopath and a neurotypical ( of equal intelligence…) is that the sociopath lives short term (neglects the consequences) the neurotypical doesn’t, and life is long term, the consequences do matter.

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    1. The text above paints the classical cliche of a woman who is so mentally challenged that she reads bullshit stereotypes of sociopaths and empaths, perhaps from Martha Stout books, and takes them as absolute truth.
      Acts as if she is an authority on the matter. Judging, generalizing out of all proportion and making a complete fool of herself trying to push her views. All under the guise of seeking knowledge for the noble purpose of playing games with and manipulating a man who discarded her.

      Now this is not so bad in and of itself, due to the simple fact that after speaking to her for 5 minutes, any normal person would be able to see how arrogant and simple minded she is. Their eyes would inevitably glaze over and they would commence with the polite nods, while desperately trying to figure out a way to get away from her.
      Unfortunately she has taken it upon herself to enlighten everyone here, be they "wannabes" or "true sociopaths" who should "place a nick".

      For the love of god, shut the hell up, Jessi. You say you came here to learn, so learn. You're not going to accomplish that by yapping all day.

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    2. Yawn. All your comment summarizes in : you think that my opinion about the text is wrong and ad hominem fallacy. Now, what about your contribution? "BUAH ALL IS WRONG. YOU BAD" doesn't tell anything at all. How am I supposed to learn!!
      Jessi

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    3. Guess again. My comments summarize as: You are annoying and judgmental. You need to shut up and stop being an arrogant ditz or you won't learn jack"

      How are you supposed to learn?
      Hmmmm, let me see.. how about shutting up, reading what other people have to say, occasionally asking purposeful questions and then taking their advice/comments into serious consideration?
      Try that.

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    4. Again complaining and bringing nothing. "BUAH, ALL IS WRONG. YOU BAD". Yawn
      Jessi

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    5. You are beyond help, Jessi. You can't even come back with a semi decent reply for fucks sake.
      I'm not remotely interested in trying to teach you anything. I've tried to help you. Tried to give you some advice, but you are clearly too challenged.

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    6. Jessi, you're also a deceiver, just to yourself.

      Playing with visible cards IS less effective, since anyone can adapt his game to the informations he has, it's like shooting yourself in the foot before the race.

      Sociopath friendship isn't fake, at least not for both. The sociopath is faking it but not the other one.

      The sociopath can think long-term, and will think about consequences, he won't care about collateral damages but he will think about the consequences that will touch him personally.

      You're like most people, your conscience will make lying to other people difficult but you will happily lie to yourself if it makes you feel like the world can be fair.
      Your point could be summarized by the childish "crime never pays" statement, cause in the end the good guys always win don't they? Totally wrong but easier to cope with.

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  7. Well, yesterday after 3:05 pm another Jessi came... Now it's apt to you who see who is the original one...
    Jessi

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    1. Now you are assuming anybody actually gives a flying fuck. The comments posted were every bit as useless and retarded as yours. They did a good job impersonating you and entertaining me. Kudos to whoever that was.

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    2. "BUAH ALL IS WRONG. YOU BAD". Yawn.
      Jessi

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    3. Say, that actually suits you.

      Keep it up, Jess.

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  8. That is an great article. Jessi reminds me of Bluebird. There was someone who was arrogant and an idiot at the same time. I hate that.

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    1. Bluebird? Well, with that pub, I hope he comes back...

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    2. It is a she and she came on with the same drivel about the sociopath that you did.

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    3. I'm mixing names, that was the pregnant one? Fortunately you keep the civil registry.
      Jessi

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  9. Hey all, I have been searching around for information on bipolar. I have a psych interview (first one) and just wondering what questions will be asked generally. Most of the kids in my family have bipolar, so jut wondering what to expect.

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    1. do you want to pass a test or take a test with honesty? I am bipolar. I will be back on later.

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    2. I want to make sure I get the diagnosis, even though I do. All us kids from our psychopath father got it.

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    3. Oh I just understood the question better.

      For me (I have bipolar 1)When they take my history, they ask when the first depression was and how long after that was the first mania. they also ask when menses started, THere is a relationship there. There are other tell-tale signs. I was told that a big cue was that a particular type of medicine I used for the initial depression worked really, really well right away... There is an approximate age for onset.

      But that is for bipolar 1. I dont know what they think is indicative of the other types.

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    4. Why were you depressed?

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    5. you mean as a youngster? Or the first major, major one i couldn't get out of without starting meds?

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    6. why do you want to know?

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    7. Just curious.

      Why won't you tell me?

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    8. I have never heard any of that before about Bipolar. Also, it seems very unlikely that every child in the family has it

      This is not a forum about bipolar, nor are there any doctors on here, so I would take everything with a grain of salt.

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    9. ^^you are right 12:03.

      I only spoke what my intakes have been. (I have had countless intakes with some highly qualified psychiatrists from top hospitals and been subject in bipolar research studies)

      What would you suggest i say here in future instead?

      Are you a psychiatrist? Are you bipolar?

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    10. I didn't say i would not tell you. Why are you curious ?

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  10. This is my question from yesterday that was way down on the second page. If I make this present mal narc pay for what she is doing to me, will I get anything from it, in terms of personal growth? If I know that I have beaten down a mal narc at her own game, will it help me gain a new arm like a starfish.

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    1. Not a new arm, but a new eye. If you are capable of passive learning you will better recognize future social assaults. Like I said before, this is a game you can win simply by knowing you're playing.

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    2. I hear you on that Anon Ymous and appreciate your input a great deal, more than I can say. This is my question though. Do I need to play it out with this person and make her run away so I am the actual victor? Do I have to play it out to the end where I am the clear winner and she is the clear loser? Is there benefit in that? Will that exercise my muscle of self defense and once I have it exercise, next time I can walk away?

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    3. Losing time is not winning.

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    4. The best win is where you turn an enemy into an ally. Now that you're no longer solely on the receiving end, you should be able to discern her motives, aspirations, likes, and dislikes. Charm her, and you've won totally.

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    5. To turn a mal narc into an ally... ;) The problem for Monica is that she is so dependent that if she would eventually get rid of mummy she would find another mummy to complain about her own life.

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    6. Wow Anon Ymos
      You are truly wise. Thank you so much for responding to me. Blessings to you, Friend!

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    7. Anon Ymos
      It is weird that I would get that kind of wisdom on a site like this. People think it would be one thing, here, but it is entirely another. I have learned more and grown more here than anyplace.
      I think the people who stay here have an intelligence and an acumen that is rare. There is something about no moderation that makes SW like a pure society with no restraints. That brings out the best and the worst in people. You are the best, dear Anon Ymos.

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    8. Hup Hup Hurra for Anon Ymos! XD XD XD
      Jessi

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    9. Maybe, if you shut up and listened and tried to learn, you may pick up some good things, too. I take it you have little life wisdom and smaller still humility. Get some!

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    10. Daniel Birdick doesn't come frequently enough...

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    11. You asked me where I live yesterday, Monica. I live in Michigan, where do you live?

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    12. Was that you, you sexy think?

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    13. Of course it was! Teenage me couldn't read multiple issues of Penthouse Letters and pick nothing up. Judging by your tastes, you'd probably greatly enjoy them.

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    14. @Anon Ymos
      "Where do you live?" was a saying that originated from an old time poster, Frank. He used to literally ask people that. He was not the brightest bulb in the box. I just took it on when I find someone fascinating.

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    15. Well, I cop guilty to loving words and you are very good for such a young man.

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    16. You misunderstand :). I picked up that style when I was a teenager, well over a decade ago. I'll have you yet, my little minx.

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    17. So Monica, what is it that you think (or feel) is missing? There are no missteps on the path to knowledge. Some of the greatest discoveries are made when people find something they have not sought. Shall we take a walk into the depths of your soul and see if we can at least find this hole, if not fill it?

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    18. Ouch

      Sexy and cerebral kind of renders me catatonic.

      Delete
    19. We can't make progress if you can't think! We both know you are a thinker, and quite perceptive when not under attack. Tell me, do you retreat to a mental sanctuary when you suffer emotional distress? Do you feel a loss of control, a sense of helplessness that is inappropriately strong, triggered by relatively minor insults?

      I ask because I do not know, so please don't take my questions as presumptions. Do you struggle to reconcile what you want for yourself with how you act? Do you act against your own best interests? If I practice failure sufficiently, I become a failure. I found creating another personality, Frank (yes it's a coincidence), to be very helpful. Frank was a hard and diligent worker, and he enjoyed his work. A productive day was a boon. When I was not Frank, I would longingly watch the bus that could take me home, even as I stepped off the one that got me to work in the morning. Every day I left, I felt like I was fleeing.

      Name the person who you want to be, and assign personality traits you want for yourself. Become that new person, and you may find that all that stands between you and your goals is a paradigm shift.

      Delete
    20. Honestly, you make me cry because you are so kind.

      Delete
    21. I've always liked being helpful, especially helping others learn. It costs very little, and is intellectually stimulating and rewarding. Am I being helpful? I cannot tell when you are being serious or not :(

      Also, I'm getting extremely anxious about not getting called out, so I'm probably going to get bolder with statements, generalizations, and opinions. Negative feedback is a crucial part of my development, and the intellectual machine I've constructed to navigate this environment cannot possibly be flawless. See, I made a robot reference. Robotic sociopath, get it? I see this as a proving grounds, but the gauntlet is all flowers and rainbows and unicorn farts.

      Delete
    22. Aww I am totally serious. I, always, am on here. I don't want you to go away. Can we take it slowly? You are being lovely.

      Delete
    23. I want to feel you. I want to touch you. The words mean less <3

      Delete
    24. I'm too tired to be coherent, so you'll have to deal with a stream of consciousness. I'm endlessly patient, my impulsiveness is reserved for my own actions. However, I am very slow to act in any relationship, and have left more than one person incredibly frustrated that I never made a move. The charm is always on, and always set higher than I intend. I try to come across as friendly most of the time, but I engage with people on such an intimate level that flirtation is not necessary for attraction to develop. I am an exceptional listener, and I never divulge secrets. I have never been unfaithful, which for me is a point of pride rather than a moral stance. Excuses come naturally to me, but I have trained myself to own my mistakes, provided they are not disastrous, in which case I will try to hide them. I absolutely adore kids, and when I visit family I spend most of my time playing with the 2-3 year olds and thoroughly enjoy it.

      Being tired and being drunk produce the same effect in me, I lose discretion concerning what I do or say. I just double-checked what I wrote, and I haven't lied. My family loves me and always wants me to visit. I told them I was a psychopath, but they didn't believe me because I'm so good with children. I'm the 'real' sociopath Jessi was so impressed with a couple days ago, although I'm doing my best now to court her denunciation. The closest I can get to love is to be happy to be with someone. I am always content, but almost never happy, and I'm very tired of being lonely. I scared my cat today and she leapt a few feet in the air which made me laugh aloud. When I start talking about cats, it's time to go to bed.

      G'night

      Delete
    25. Good night :)

      Delete
    26. :)
      You like kids and Monica? We might no be compatible.
      Jessi

      Delete
    27. Ha! You think I'm a cunt, just wait till Monica lays into you for hitting on the new found love of her life.
      I'm getting the popcorn ready.

      Delete
    28. That is lovely, Anon Ymous.

      Delete
    29. Anon Ymous

      What do you love about the children?

      Delete
    30. They're absolutely adorable and much more willing to play silly games than adults. I don't have to pretend to enjoy spending time with them. It's interesting to watch them learn and grow, from crawling to walking and talking. If I had one of my own, I'd truly delight in spending time with them, playing, teaching, and learning. I've reached the stage where I could support a family, though starting one is easier said than done.

      Delete
    31. You are not afraid, with them <3

      Delete
    32. Afraid? The only thing I fear is that I've miscalculated some risk that will lead to serious consequences. Am I putting enough effort into my work? Am I paying sufficient attention to my health? Am I being fiscally responsible? Even then, these are not really fears, but rather concerns. I only hope I can detect warning signs before a serious problem develops, which would cause me stress. Stress negatively impacts all of my concerns, so I do my best to avoid it.

      What do you think I am afraid of, or should be afraid of? Right now my greatest fears are spiders and bumblebees *shudder*.

      Delete
    33. I think you are afraid to share your heart.

      Delete
    34. I am, too. That is how I know xx

      Delete
    35. You think your heart is black and bad but children see it and they love you.

      Delete
    36. I can't help but hurt people that get close to me, even though that is never my intention. The worst part is that I don't really care that I've hurt them! And yet, I still remain alone, even knowing I could charm the pants off anyone I want. Maybe I've developed a sub-conscience (yes, that's a made up word) that keeps me alone. I've tried to drive you away, by saying too much, by revealing my faults, my 'dark side', even though I don't really expect to meet you in person.

      How is it that I'm learning more about myself? You're the one that came here looking for a new perspective of yourself, but it seems I'm the one who found a mirror. It is the nature of a monster to be monstrous, so maybe it's best I remain secluded. It is easy, I am content, and people like you are safe :)

      Delete
    37. Nah, in helping you, I see myself :)

      Delete
    38. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    39. You want to be close, but you don't know how. With children, you do <3

      Delete
    40. The part of you that you share with children is your lost soul <3

      Delete
    41. Children are selfish, and taught to act in a socially acceptable manner before they are developed enough to mean what they say. They're the only people I've met that I can really relate to. Did I mention they're also adorable?

      Delete
    42. Yes, they are adorable because they show their hearts.

      Delete
    43. If you didn't have the SAME heart, you would not be able to relate.

      Delete
    44. Unlike children, though, I have no higher authority preventing me from taking what I want. I don't feel bad when I hurt others, so why shouldn't I be bad, if it gets me what I want. Now that you've helped me identify my block, this mini-conscience, I can subvert it and start down the path of taking what I desire 3:-)

      Delete
    45. Well, you may have that part that can take what it wants without feeling badly, but you, also, have the part that loves like a child and WANTS to connect.

      Delete
    46. I don't feel bad when I hurt others, so why shouldn't I be bad, if it gets me what I want.


      Being bad doesn't get you what you want, totally, because you are lonely <3

      Delete
    47. I'm lonely because I've been good and driven people away :)

      Delete
    48. YES, you have been good but TOO good. You are TOO good and that won't work. You are TOO bad and that won't work. Your heart knows the way, if you will really, really, really listen.

      Delete
    49. I have a question for you, Anon Ymous. Were you sensitive as child?

      Delete
  11. The subject of the article is highly rational, exceedingly observant in social situations, and displays zero emotion in his writing. I wonder what he sees in himself that precludes him being a sociopath. Is he truly an outsider looking in, or an insider who doesn't know he's a part of the group he observes? There appear to be more parts on the way, so a clearer picture should be forthcoming.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You sound like a C-PTSD with high score on RAD. Maybe also some desensitiazion or whatever the english term for that thing was, and or dissociation.

      You could check it out. You seem though, to have kept the more important stuff well. So people still like you and want to find ways to forgive your borderlinish minor blow-outs.

      Everyone is a mess. Why shouldn't we be. After all, aren't we just an undesired biproduct of cosmic chaos.

      Delete
  12. To fall in love with a loser is much easier to fall in love with a strong man who does not have the same motivations as the loser. When a man gets more than sex from you he is motivated to keep you for a longer haul while you are full of insecurities he may leave that he may be cheating on you. Who the f cares if he is cheating on you, you are a provider, not a lover in the first place. You buried your head in one problem (his cheating) to avoid the real problem that you are in a one-sided relationship, stuck with a loser, a parasite.

    There are times a man may be out of a job and the woman is the bread-winner and that's alright because there are no other concerns in the relationship that it is a natural give an dtake acroos long haul. But, this is not the case when the woman is suspicious of his cheating. The guy is simply in need of a portfolio of women to provide for him, particularly after he already hears the woman say things like 'we won't be together long term, you're cheating, I know.' Even if he wasn't yo're teaching him that he should. This sort of positioning of a woman is the dumbest ever. Such level of insecurity and yearning, very hard to relate to. Focus on what you can change, which is yourself and your income.

    This sort of woman is the one who really needs to hear it from UKan. He breaks these types of women down till reality is poked into them, but even he is bored to repeat himself again and again because there is no end to these types. I don't have the language to get it into their brains, but I hope that with aging they figure out that they are better off in peace and alone than buying oxytocin at such high price: their self-esteem.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't agree with you, Sceli, but in one thing I totally agree with: "You buried your head in one problem (his cheating) to avoid the real problem that you are in a one-sided relationship, stuck with a loser, a parasite."
      She has to move on, not because she is giving up her self-esteem but because the relationship she has is not the one she wants.

      Delete
    2. sceli he isnt a parasite. HE is just a cheater. He has shame and fear of telling me the truth. I have been studying him for 2 years. I know how he lies to his ex wife, and his work situation was a giant tell.


      I give him plenty of other stuff aside from sex, and he gives generously to me as well.

      I am compartmentalizing and trying to see all this stuff and truths, so thank you for clarifying that some of my report is exaggeration.

      We care for one another and there is a lot of respect in all other areas.


      I have a ton of respect for myself, Monica. This is why i dont want to make rash decisions and fling around my reactions to a point i will sabotage goodness.

      He is very good to me, and not in a sociopathic way.

      I have to come clean to myself on my feelings about who he is though. -I am not sure how much this has to do with self respect or not. I think it does a bit, but not as much as it probably seems. ( I am totally open to hearing arguments against what i saying)

      Oh, Monica..I have and will demand respect. He was floored the first time.


      " Most people have but you MUST fake it and he will come back, I bet xxx "

      Not sure I will take him back.

      Jessi, with regard to mirroring, i have done this in the past. I didnt want to do it again, as i am experimenting being less manipulative and straight up honest. I have felt passive aggressive with it.

      And I know it is one of laws of power. I use it all the time and people kneel, but i want this person to stand and be for me without me having to do that.

      However, what you say is very interesting about seeing hypocrisy. SO I am taking your advice into consideration.

      Thank you so very much, all of you.




      Delete
    3. I think that a cheater and a liar can't be fixed. Either you accept a life of lying and cheating or you are losing your time. Be honest with yourself, look at him for what he is not for what you want him to be after being fixed. There is no fixing. Don't lose your time. You will regret that later.
      Jessi

      Delete
    4. Quoting the laws of power. Good one.

      I knew someone who had the "How to get a woman -Laws of power." Right on his bedside table.

      I only saw him once.

      Delete
    5. eeew.

      I did not know about the laws of power until i came here.

      I dont believe in or like power plays for living. I didn't learn them consciously, and i dislike employing them when i am aware I'm doing it. It's just a stupid way to keep vulnerabilities at bay.

      I mentioned it because there are so many people here, like the late Rich the Uberempath, thank you very much, who talked about it. That's why the reference.

      Delete
    6. I am taking into consideration that this is the relationship that I do not want, like jessi 833 says.


      Thank you and goodnight.

      Delete
    7. @Intimacy

      As you start to value yourself more, you will cast out people who de-value you. I am just starting to do this and really learned it on here.

      I think you are making great progress and I am proud of you. It made me feel so good when someone on here said that to me and I am passing on that true sentiment to you.

      Delete
    8. Hi Monica. xx

      I am playing sadistic games with the bf with the timig of those casual comments i made to him "I think about seeing others, i dont trust you as far as i can throw you, I see this relationship as more temporary) .. These comments to him were warnings and timed out so he could see cause and effect. I have seen myself do it in fight or flight before. It's bullshit, and sceli is right, it's desperate. It's race to abandon.

      I turned power table and so what?


      I played a game on him last night with me doing unknown whereabouts. I am doing that putting paranoia in his brain. This is the sign for me. Once i become desperate (thank you, sceli for making me see this) i know i need to just stop and take a breath and do nothing. unknown whereabouts is the game only good for initial seduction anyway. At the end it is desperate and a waste of time and energy. He losing me and I'm prrretty sure he knows it.

      I want to collect an unbought belated birthday gift and make the "i want to take a break speech (with the pity-me reasons I mentioned yesterday).

      I have to wait now with this ? I want to get out now and stop acting dumb and holding in anger, but idk what to do.

      Delete
    9. PLAY GAMES
      It is part of life. Purists say it is bad, but these people are stupid. It is part of the human condition and part of the mating dance. You must do it and learn to do it, if you are going to have a decent relationship <3

      Delete
    10. Thank you, Monica.

      I thought i was bad and sneaky. But I play games very well.

      Idk why you just made me cry but you did.

      People always tell me honesty is best policy, and yeah, the purists will try to shame me. But I sometimes see others smiling underneath.

      Delete
    11. I showed too may cards the other day.

      I lost him/lost interest anyway, so i guess the end is just taking it's course. I would like to hurt him. I would like not to have this desire, but i am angry.

      You are right, I needed to cast him out. So i guess i will lick my wounds privately, put my head like Queen of Elizabeth and banish him from my domain gracefully. I dont need a revenge move to sully my reputation anyway.

      I wish i wasnt so sad and angry. I wish i did not have to deal with him today or tonight. I will have to put on a phony act. -I want my fucking present.

      Thank you.

      I am happy you share with me and you say we help one another
      xoxo

      Delete
    12. *its* course

      Delete
    13. Awww My favorite SW Regulars make me cry all the time. I am happy we share and help each other, too <3

      Delete
  13. Paper conquers rock, and borderline beats - lite , on a side note who reads all this shit anyways

    ReplyDelete
  14. Darling, I provide my assurance that you haven't seen what I truly am.
    I'll admit to being quite a bit bite curious though.
    I'll devour anything that has been provided on a plate in a setting that I find appropriate.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Is there a way to destroy a sociopath?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes... you must press the 'self-destruct button', on a spot in the back of their head.

      Delete
    2. I tried already that, it just reboots.

      Delete
    3. Maybe to expose them publically.

      Delete
    4. "YOU'RE A FAKE AND A PHONY AND I WISH I'D NEVER LAID EYES ON YOU!" Then you break out into song. works like a charm.

      Delete
    5. Why expose someone publicly? Expose them privately. Tell them NO.

      Delete
    6. Shame will do the job. Find someone they care about, someone they respect (these people exist) and destroy their opinion of the sociopath. Sociopaths value these real bonds very highly, and they cannot bear their disapproval. It may take some time, you'll have to gain the trust and confidence of these people, to learn for them what is unforgiveable. Then, either with truth or lies, implicate the sociopath in an irrefutable, damning manner. It's best if you can do this anonymously, possibly by sending an e-mail. It's important that you don't let your sociopath target know you're gunning for him, though. They kind of have a knack for picking up on others' bad intentions.

      Delete
    7. Ok, I agree with a lot of that, had an ex try to do this to me. It almost worked, but he forgot what a skilled liar and manipulator I can be. Not to mention vindictive cunt :)

      It was not about shame though. I invest a lot of time and effort into those that truly matter to me. Their opinions do count and I really wouldn't like for them to think badly of me.

      However, at the end of the day, I wasn't greatly concerned about their opinions. Far more concerned about losing control and losing these people (and everything I get from them) because of someone else.

      Not to mention it would have wreaked havoc with the image I carefully cultivated. One that allowed me to manipulate and play games and get away with it.

      Shame is the Achilles heel of the narcissist. But yes, this sort of game still did make my life very fun for a while.

      Delete
    8. Chet's gayin' it up again.

      lolololo x

      Delete
    9. haha yet I still haven't earned a theme. Even Jessi somehow got one.

      Discrimination much?


      lol

      Delete
  16. I'm whatever I want you to think I am my dear.
    I like to intertwine lies with the truth so that people are never certain of what I truly am.
    As I provided in the beginning of my relationship with this site:
    No sociopath is honest, but at least we can be truthful.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

      Delete
    2. I'm usually honest, since lies only occasionally offer benefit. If you want to sound profound, inject some gusto, some feeling into your writing. Most people here are not amused by arrogant robots. Arrogant celebrants, on the other hand...

      Delete
  17. Up From The SofaMay 1, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    I come up from the layers like a porpoise jumping from the water. I never thought it would happen that I would get a glimpse of the sky. I thought I would be resigned to the darkness of undesirables. How it happened, I am not sure. I was following a path led by Something bigger. It felt defined, not wooly.

    I fought and kicked and bit. No one could get out of control in my childhood. You would think we were blue blooded WASPS how quiet we were. You never could stand out. So for me to break out was quite a thing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "You never could stand out."

      It's better for you to find the middle ground.

      Delete
    2. Up From The SofaMay 1, 2013 at 2:31 PM

      At any rate, I got my wish to touch my core and it is as wonderful as I thought.

      Delete
    3. Up FRom The SofaMay 1, 2013 at 2:32 PM

      How so, Anon?

      Delete
  18. This is a very funny thread. The funniest part of it is, that it is actually, very sad.

    I have communicated with one man. I don't care who or what he is. People read his email, and know personal things I tell him. His ex gf did, oompa loompa. His wife did googly eyes. And his daughter did. The girl with the bracelet.


    The sad part to me is the lack of real identity. I am an individual. My life and mental health are very real to me.

    Others just pick out pieces of me and play with them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's disgusting.

      Delete
    2. "He is who is he and if you truly are his friend you accept that."

      And I am his friend, no matter who or what he is or does. I am just a different person. I would never hurt him willingly or do anything to him.

      I just want a relationship based on trust. And when violated, it is hard to get it back.

      He has told me several times to let him go. He left me several times and he told me he doesn't love me several times.

      You can love someone unconditionally and not tolerate abuse. And that is where I am. Boundaries. Don't fuck with me and mine, don't lie to me. Seems like a tolerable demand.

      Delete
    3. A psychopath has to make unbelievable efforts not to lie or play with your head....

      Delete
    4. Then make the lies funny and easy to spot!

      I don't know. I just know that there are all kinds of people in this world. Lie to someone else.

      Go to confession and make up stories. Get a sales job or one in politics. Work as a cosmetics counter.

      Make the lies less hurtful to those of us who are especially smart, and can tell.

      Delete
    5. I've been known to tell increasingly preposterous lies in order to see how far I can push someone before they finally call me on it. Act like I'm taken aback by the fact that they could tell, convince them I've learned my lesson and promise I will try my best not to lie anymore.

      Then if I tell less "obvious" lies, they think they are very clever and can tell. Meanwhile, I'm telling them some very serious lies and they fall for it.

      It takes enormous effort for me to be honest with someone. But they have to be really and truly worth it. Otherwise it's more fun to play with them.

      Delete
    6. Nice answer, Anon 5:22. thanks.

      Delete
    7. When a sociopath is no longer interested in what you think or how you feel, it's very hard to hang onto them. You need some real threat, some leverage to force them into maintaining contact with you, if that's what you want. You need to realize that you have no inherent value, except as a diversion, and when you're not fun anymore, you're trash.

      If you want to pet a kitty that doesn't like you, you either have to feed it or hold it down. In one case it purrs, in one case it hisses, but you don't get what you want without one method or the other, because kitty's not going to jump into your lap just because you call him.

      Delete
    8. I am not making anyone hang on to me and i am a lot more than Pussy. I mean a kitty.

      I am just stating an opinion to those who may care.

      :)

      Delete
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  29. "It didn't take long for me to learn that as long as the narcissist is receiving his narcissistic supply he will delude himself. Sound familiar? The neurotypical, as long as he is receiving societal approval and validation will delude himself as well. The average person is a narcissist-lite." Love that bit of humor there, it's funny because it's true. Whomever was the sender of this email, made some valid points.

    ReplyDelete
  30. What is the perfect victim for a sociopath? A rich person with no common sense? A person with money that allows to be walked over like a welcome mat? Is there a 'sheep to be shorn' for the wolf in sheep's clothing?

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    ReplyDelete

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