Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Knowing the limits of our answers

I thought this was a very interesting Wired article about the limitations of the PCL-R.  The author begins with the anecdote of Alan Turing's attempt to answer the question of whether computers could think.  Realizing that the question framed that way was impossible to answer (what does it mean to think?), he reframed the question to be whether computers could pass as humans.  He set up an experiment where test subjects were asked to determine whether responses from an unidentified source came from another human or a computer.

Turing constructed the test in transparently trivial terms. If a computer could fool someone for five minutes 70 percent of the time, it was as good as intelligent. This is powerful not because of its implications for intelligence, but because of its insight into asking tough questions. When we don’t understand the underlying causes of a phenomenon, what scientists call its mechanism, we must resort to studying its effects. But it is crucial that we be aware of the limitations of this approach and remain humble in our inquiry.

He then goes on to compare the difficult misalignment between what we can test and what we hope to learn in terms of the PCL-R and other diagnostic tools for psychopathy:


In the next year, the American Psychological Association will put the finishing touches on the latest version of the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, its compendium of psychiatric illnesses. Psychiatry is up against a problem similar to the one Turing faced. The illnesses are complex and their causes hard to discern. Without a clear mechanism, psychiatrists must rely on their patients’ subjective symptoms. It’s a process that’s always fraught, but it works when psychiatrists are realistic about the constraints of their tests.

Things become more troubling when the stakes are high and the diagnoses are tough to change. This is the case in prisons throughout the Western world, where inmates are subjected to the revised Psychopathy Checklist, or PCL-R.

Like the Turing Test, the PCL-R is about effects and symptoms, not causes.

The problems with the PCL-R:


The PCL-R, unlike the Turing Test, is inflexible by design. The Turing Test merely relies on the ability of the machine to be convincing in the present. It doesn’t take into account the machine’s past track record. It leaves open the possibility for change and improvement. The PCL-R is not so forgiving. If a person with a history of psychopathic behaviour were to get better, testers would likely interpret this as deception. After all, deception is a key feature of psychopathy. The PCL-R tries to have it both ways. It relies on observing a set of behaviors, but it resists assigning significance to a change in those behaviors.

Leaving open the possibility of change isn’t about setting serial killers free. But for crimes on the margin, the batteries and assaults and armed robberies, we have to decide whether to deny people who score high on the PCL-R the same opportunities we would give those who score low.

The take away:

The checklist demands that we confront our values. For the possibility of a little more security, are we willing to risk denying a person a second chance? We have to understand the tradeoff and the uncertainty of the reward.

With the Turing Test, it’s pretty straightforward. Five minutes and 70 percent can only tell us so much. How much can the PCL-R tell us?

Alan Turing taught us that when the question is hard, we must know the limits of our answers. At stake here is redemption, the possibility that the wretched can make good. It is an aspiration worth more than a guess. It deserves our humility.


I like this issue about knowing the limits of our answers.  I have recently dipped more into the empirical side of my profession and it has been fascinating and eye-opening to see some of the common mistakes people make in terms of believing that they are "proving" things or that some things are capable of being "known."  There really is a great deal of hubris, and particularly when these pieces of "knowledge" leave the academic area of origin and are used by other people who are unaware of the inherent uncertainty (courts, parole boards, trolls, etc.).  I can understand why people would want to believe things are knowable, particularly when it comes to something as scary as psychopaths, but they just aren't -- at least not currently.





293 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Besides the censorship, Zhawqs blog format is better. Was this what you had dreamed your blog would turn into ME, a race to see who posts first ? You ignored people when they complained about the new format. Now this place is boring, there is no reason to come here, other than to see if you have come to your senses yet

      Delete
    2. Besides the fact that Zwaq is an autistic rape victim pretending to be a psychopath who ran from this blog after getting revealed, she has a format on her blog consistent with another blog I saw of hers having to do with having an eating disorder. Pathetic weak bitch.

      Delete
    3. Eating disorder? Starving or stuffing herself? Funny either way.

      Delete
    4. Anon1121 (A.K.A. notme): Get over it. Your whining is pathetic.

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    5. Stuffing herself. The other person on her fat blog was named Cupcake, which I found pretty amusing.

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    6. Lol. Another fat retard pretending to be a psychopath. Her and Demon could get together, stuff themselves then break their toys. Match made in heaven.

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    7. They can sumo wrestle with knives. I wonder how many stickings it would take to get through all that fat.

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    8. Aaah, the ultimate dog fight. Winner gets to fingerbang Monica.

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    9. He better be cute and have good game.

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  2. I like any opinion that will give me a second chance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Besides the censorship, Zhawqs blog format is better. Was this what you had dreamed your blog would turn into ME, a race to see who posts first ? You ignored people when they complained about the new format. Now this place is boring, there is no reason to come here, other than to see if you have come to your senses yet

      Delete
    2. Besides the censorship, Zhawqs blog format is better. Was this what you had dreamed your blog would turn into ME, a race to see who posts first ? You ignored people when they complained about the new format. Now this place is boring, there is no reason to come here, other than to see if you have come to your senses yet

      Delete
    3. Zwaq is a fake psychopath. Its been proven beyond doubt that everything she said about herself was a lie. She's not a psychopath, is not a man, and hasnt killed anyone. She's a autistic rape victim coping by pretending to be the perpetrator.

      Delete
  3. How To Heal a PDJune 27, 2012 at 3:45 AM

    "Sociopaths will have no stopping mechanism, showing there is no reaction to the person's distress. This is no empathy"


    ME was gracious enough to put this in the Twitter. I don't bring it up to brag, just to say that I think this one point is diagnostic of any PD on the spectrum vs a sociopath. This has been my experience, not book knowledge which is lesser imho

    The sociopath will not stop, in a fight. They will not stop if you cry, beg, or are in great distress. The BPD may be the same. I don't know, as I don't know many BPDs. I have had direct experience with two, only.

    The Narc up to the Mal narc will stop when they see your distress. Raven is not a sociopath, as she has stopping powers, imho

    UKan is a sociopath, as he does not.

    I would apply this diagnostic tool, here, as well as other places.

    What do you all think?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think that I never stop in a fight, seeing people cry makes me even more angry.

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    2. How To Heal a PDJune 27, 2012 at 4:05 AM

      This was before SW. I had no idea what I was dealing with. This guy I was crazy about( long story which you don't want to hear) was saying mean things to me on FB----in the private messages. I started escalating it by fighting back. When I escalated it, he did more until he took it on my FB Wall and was calling me cunt and worse, on my actual FB Wall. I had people messaging me, "Whaaaaaaa?"

      Well, looking back, he had no stopping mechanism. After this whole thing ended, he messaged me, "What up?"

      That was the end, for me, as I would have lost all the respect I have with everyone on my FB if I continued any relationship with him.

      I can't be pulled down too far, respect wise.

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    3. If in a fight.... why stop ? If you are at the point of trading blows, you go until the threat is stopped. That is just common sense.

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    4. @TCO If someone cries ( hopefully a woman), do you stop?

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    5. Stop when your point is made. Violence needs to have finality or you will have to deal with retaliation. You can backhand someone and call it a day if theyre a bitch. Some people, though, you have to go all the way.

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    6. Cries ? I've knocked them about before they can make a peep. Crying is annoying.

      Delete
  4. Who is deleting posts ?

    ReplyDelete
  5. UKan, you never answered if you thought Medusa was a sociopath.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What does that mean?

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    2. ^I put that question on the wrong one.

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    3. No. She's said repeatedly she's not. She's a malicious women that's rational and intelligent. I can see why some would think so, but in that black heart of hers she still drips empathy now and again.

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    4. Why do you say she is malicious, UK?

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    5. Her conduct on here. If she feels slighted she gets pretty nasty. Very vindictive. She sometimes will pick on weak people also for reasons known only to herself. That being said she's gone out of her way to help people like ami, though I think the results disillusioned her on whether some people have any hope at all.

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    6. Not true. I have never once said I was a sociopath or not a sociopath.

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    7. You are not a sociopath Medusa.

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    8. Yes you did. You said it several times.

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    9. Yes cunt you said it several times in the past. I remember it too. Do you think you're gaining something by playing all mysterious and shit? Feeling left out of the big socio-pack since people here started turning on you?

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    10. Who started turning on her?

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    11. I remember when Medusa first came to sociopathworld she thought she WAS a sociopath.

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    12. Who started turning on me? What are you talking about? How weak of you, hiding under an anon. Personal agenda, eh? But too cowardly to be direct?

      I don't give a shit if anyone thinks I'm a sociopath or not. This whole "is s/he or isn't s/he" business here has nothing to do with reality. I have no interest in being part of some sort of group mentality.

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    13. No she didn't. She came on talking about her Demon ex boyfriend

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    14. I challenge you to find any comment where I say I am or am not a sociopath.

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    15. MedusaFebruary 15, 2010
      5:55 PM

      So, does S believe that developing true awareness (seeing things as they are, honestly etc) always lead to Sness? Is S the only real/possible outcome of truth/reality?



      Eh. No.

      I'm not a sociopath, yet I'm also quite aware how much pretense and conditioning is involved in social interaction and emotional response.

      Anyone with a brain knows this


      I don't talk out of my arse, medusa.

      Delete
    16. Good for you. Glad you remember what I say more than I do.

      Clearly you don't remember Raven saying she wasn't a sociopath, very recently. Yet you remember when I did, 2.5 years ago?

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    17. I remember things that are significant to me.

      I remember raven saying it several times too. I just don't believe her. I've said this a couple of times, but I guess you forgot that as well.

      Lay off the weed.

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    18. Well then I guess were all just a bunch of liars then, eh?

      Who is to be believed on the internet, oh noes!

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    19. raven's not a sociopath. she tries too hard. you can feel the desperation. she's just a spaz is all. only now she's buying her own hype which makes her twice as spaztic.

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    20. Yeah Medusa lay off the weed. People tell you you said stuff so stop being an arrogant idiot and believe it. Since you're not worth more than 10 minutes of search, here's another post for you just to prove you wrong:

      Medusa October 2, 2010 9:53 PM (in response to Jesse)

      Narcissistic qualities, though I wouldn't say I have a personality disorder.

      Delete
    21. You are not a sociopath, Medusa, because you can be touched my another person's emotions i.e plight. Raven is the same. Kany, although she is despicable, is the same. Alter is as well. Green Eyes and Ell are not sociopaths, either.

      UKan can see someone in distress and laugh, feeling nothing. That is no empathy. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to break things down, in simple terms, although I am very smart.

      Delete
    22. Raven knows she's a sociopath, she just doesn't give a fuck so she denies it when its convenient. She's almost admitted to it closely enough that I know she believes it though. That's all I really remember.

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    23. Fine, I stand corrected. I didn't know what the fuck I was back then, if anything, and after a while I stopped asking myself that question, because it's useless and limiting.

      I stay away from the issue because I have no desire to be part of some 'empath-pack' or a 'socio-pack'. 99.9% of the people in both groups here are followers and pleasers who think they are brilliant leaders. No thanks.

      I'm not a sociopath. I'm not an empath. Happy? Make sure to bookmark this comment for future use.

      Now how about you stop being such a cowardly follower yourself?

      Delete
    24. That's why I try to stay out of the Prove You Are A Sociopath, Who Is Diagnosed, Am I A Sociopath, and Is My Boyfriend A Sociopath discussion. It's useless, boring, and tedious. I like to divert them into something more productive and entertaining. It's better to see how people function on here and judge the matter at hand like we people are with arseholes, why someone is soul searching, or how delusional someone is.

      Delete
    25. that's bull, kany. you are seeing her how you want to see her, because you think she is cool and acts all extreme here. cool does not a sociopath make. two days straight all day trolling youtube comments does not a sociopath make, it makes a bipolar maniac. she does give a fuck, the only thing she denies is how much she really does give a fuck. she thinks she would lose her edge if she didn't leave the mystery open of whether she is a sociopath or not. hilarious you think it's all part of her "game". that's what she wants you to think, but its bull.

      Delete

    26. why people are with arseholes


      Correction

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    27. If she was bipolar she would have a depressive phase. I haven't seen her depressed the entire time she's been here and she's been here daily for quite some time.

      Delete
    28. What does raven give a fuck about 4:44? Not her children LOL!

      Delete
    29. She said she's diagnosed bipolar 50 million times, UKan. When she first arrived her profile said she was bipolar, and I think she even had a bipolar blog attached to it. Not all bipolar people have bouts of deep depression, and she has said herself she has mostly just the mania, constant but with varying degrees, and no depression. I think she did say she has her post-mania crashes, though.

      Delete
    30. Raven is not a sociopath, as she has a heart which can be touched by another person's plight/ emotions. She has low empathy from abuse, but that is not a sociopath imho and research

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    31. Lol. The fact that its all part of her game a sociopath maketh. Among other things. Sociopathy isn't cool, I like it. There's a big difference. And think what you want about raven. My opinion of her sticks.

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    32. I have been in distress on here, and Raven and Medusa helped me. THAT is empathy. Seeing a person in distress and reaching out to help.

      Delete
    33. Well then I stand corrected, medusa.

      1-1

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    34. anon 4:52 actually I find it interesting that she never, ever talks about her children unless someone asks her a question about them, and even then she uses them to make herself look even more like she doesn't care. she's hiding that she cares about them, or feels guilty about them, I think.

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    35. When was she touched by plight?
      and she ince when is depression not part of bipolar? She said she's never had a low phase. So I opted her out of bipolar disorder.

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    36. Bipolar disorder is a condition in which people go back and forth between periods of a very good or irritable mood and depression. The "mood swings" between mania and depression can be very quick.

      Causes, incidence, and risk factors

      Bipolar disorder affects men and women equally. It usually starts between ages 15 - 25. The exact cause is unknown, but it occurs more often in relatives of people with bipolar disorder.

      Types of bipolar disorder:

      People with bipolar disorder type I have had at least one manic episode and periods of major depression. In the past, bipolar disorder type I was called manic depression.

      People with bipolar disorder type II have never had full mania. Instead they experience periods of high energy levels and impulsiveness that are not as extreme as mania (called hypomania). These periods alternate with episodes of depression.

      A mild form of bipolar disorder called cyclothymia involves less severe mood swings. People with this form alternate between hypomania and mild depression. People with bipolar disorder type II or cyclothymia may be wrongly diagnosed as having depression.

      In most people with bipolar disorder, there is no clear cause for the manic or depressive episodes. The following may trigger a manic episode in people with bipolar disorder:

      Life changes such as childbirth

      Medications such as antidepressants or steroids

      Periods of sleeplessness

      Recreational drug use

      Symptoms

      The manic phase may last from days to months. It can include the following symptoms:

      Easily distracted

      Little need for sleep

      Poor judgment

      Poor temper control

      Reckless behavior and lack of self control

      Binge eating, drinking, and/or drug use

      Poor judgment

      Sex with many partners (promiscuity)

      Spending sprees

      Very elevated mood

      Excess activity (hyperactivity)

      Increased energy

      Racing thoughts

      Talking a lot

      Very high self-esteem (false beliefs about self or abilities)

      Very involved in activities

      Very upset (agitated or irritated)

      These symptoms of mania occur with bipolar disorder I. In people with bipolar disorder II, the symptoms of mania are similar but less intense.

      The depressed phase of both types of bipolar disorder includes the following symptoms:

      Daily low mood or sadness

      Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions

      Eating problems

      Loss of appetite and weight loss

      Overeating and weight gain

      Fatigue or lack of energy

      Feeling worthless, hopeless, or guilty

      Loss of pleasure in activities once enjoyed

      Loss of self-esteem

      Thoughts of death and suicide

      Trouble getting to sleep or sleeping too much

      Pulling away from friends or activities that were once enjoyed

      There is a high risk of suicide with bipolar disorder. Patients may abuse alcohol or other substances, which can make the symptoms and suicide risk worse.

      Sometimes the two phases overlap. Manic and depressive symptoms may occur together or quickly one after the other in what is called a mixed state.

      Delete
    37. I almost copied and pasted that exact thing... seriously, we're the same person.

      Delete
    38. She said she cares about her children. Id imagine that's why she doesn't discuss them. I wouldn't tell any of you a damn thing about my kids.

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    39. Monica, she told you she was nice with you to watch you being beaten back and forth like a paddlle ball.
      My example that ravens a sociopath: didn't she implement the entire plumbing debacle? Its the best I can compose besides her story about taking over elderly hairdressing by undermining her boss and stealing her clients.

      Delete
    40. I almost copied and pasted that exact thing... seriously, we're the same person.

      David would think so

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    41. I don't get the point of that list? As if I don't already know?

      Are you trying to say you are more qualified to diagnose than the doctors? Isn't that exactly what you preach against all the time?

      It's almost like you guys don't want her to be bipolar, despite what she has said it time and time again, and has taken us through her high and not-so-high periods. What's that about? Kinda weird.

      Would you see her as lesser if you were convinced she was bipolar? Because that seems to be the case here, and why you are so against her diagnosis. I wonder how she feels about this.

      Delete
    42. I'm playing the arrogant card. I think her doctor was mistaken. I don't see evidence of her polarity, by the fact that she has extreme highs, and no lows. I'd say that's a big pointer in the negative. But maybe I'm just filled by her and her doctor really knew her. Either way, I don't care. My opinion sticks.
      Can you honestly say you think she's bipolar? Please.

      Delete
    43. Kany
      Raven was sweet to me in the beginning. We do have a sisterly type of love/hate thing going on. She has some feelings for me, even though she says she doesn't. It is a complex thing as I remind her of her sister. I don't know why.

      Delete
    44. My example that ravens a sociopath: didn't she implement the entire plumbing debacle?

      Not really... she got emails from Plumbo and posted them, but I'm the one that publicly took it beyond that.

      Yet, I'm not a sociopath, right? So how can something like that prove someone is a sociopath?

      People can, and will, do anything on the internet. Do you also believe that all trolls are sociopaths?

      Delete
    45. raven was very unsure of herself when she first arrived. she'd go away for a while and then come back with a new name until she finally found a persona that people would buy.

      Delete

    46. Not really... she got emails from Plumbo and posted them, but I'm the one that publicly took it beyond that


      No Im the one who took it publicly beyond that. I told her if she didn't beg the both of you I would email her husband. You two had mercy on her which I thought was too soft. I put the power in your hands and you squandered it.

      Delete
    47. How many names has she gone by?

      Delete
    48. Medusa
      Anyone can be a vicious asshole. A true sociopath has no feeling for another person's plight. That is why I don't think sociopaths or Mal narcs should have kids, as they can't pick up on what the kid needs. You have to feel what a child needs, as for a great part of the child's life, he can't tell you. If you have no empathy, how are you going to be able to feel?

      Delete
    49. Can you honestly say you think she's bipolar

      Yes. She thinks so herself, too. I've never seen her doubt her diagnosis. She has displayed doubts about being a sociopath, but never about being bipolar.

      So what you are saying is that Raven is wrong about something she has already accepted about herself. I seriously am starting to think you regard her as lesser for being bipolar, to the point where you are denying it so that you don't have to see her as lesser. Why can't Raven be bipolar yet still be a part of your club?

      Delete
    50. Lol. Monica's gotta be raven! That was hilarious!

      Delete
    51. Im questioning how you claim people with bipolar disorder don't have a depressive phase. That's what the list is for.

      Delete
    52. I put the power in your hands and you squandered it.

      Christ, UKan, here we go again. Do you really want to do this? You really can't deal with not being the invisible hand behind everything that happens here, eh?

      Delete
    53. Raven is bipolar. When she gets fucking manic, you knows it. She has a down after the mania. It does not have to be a classic depression, in order to be bi-polar.

      Delete
    54. I wasn't aware that you needed to be a psychopath to be accepted here, medusa. You are sounding like 'Mee'.

      Delete
    55. You say she emailed plumboso flippantly like it had nothing to do with her exposing herself. Raven manipulated her out of all the damning information that broke up her relationship, and then she came back. You think that had to do with her love for you? Please, Medusa, don't flatter yourself.

      Delete
    56. Medusa, I'm not sure I understand why you're arguing for the sake of argument. Planting your feet against the forces of oppression. I know you try to make fun of me when I say that, but its what you're starting to look like. Raven wouldn't even defend her polarity this passionately. She dismissed the diagnosis herself.

      Delete
    57. I should ask you that, because it wasn't an hour ago that you just looked like a fool. You keep trying to take credit for things I do.

      Delete
    58. I guess we are talking about two different things then. Raven played games with her and posted her emails, and I'm the one who found out who she actually was who got Plumbo to beg on her knees in the end.

      Perhaps you should ask Plumbo yourself, this is tedious.

      Delete
    59. You guys need another Jose before you eat yourselves up he he

      Delete
    60. I like how you put the attention off you and on to raven, medusa. You got mad skills. ;)

      Delete
    61. Raven wouldn't even defend her polarity this passionately.

      Nor would she defend her 'sociopathy' as passionately as you both have on her behalf.

      Delete
    62. Wow, don't I feel loved.~

      Delete
    63. you aren't going to say anything in your defense raven?

      Delete
    64. she can't even if she wanted to, because the previous comments defined her as someone who refuses to defend herself. she would lose cool points if she did.
      but now that I've said this, she might do it, just to be contrarian. but now that I've said THAT she might refuse. and round and round.

      Delete
    65. Defend myself against what, anonymous? I haven't been accused of anything. But I will say this one thing for myself. Out of all the people who have ever come to this blog, I feel I have been the most open and honest about myself.

      No one here has ever shown they were willing to answer so many questions about their personal life, as I have. That's a fucking fact.

      Defend myself? What for? Everyone sees me the way they want to, or need to... depending on the weather, and depending on how they feel about themselves. Nothing I could ever say will change that. It's a lost cause.

      Delete
    66. Post the comment you made that demanded plumbo to beg and humiliate yourself Medusa.

      Delete
    67. That was a very funny Freudian slip, too.

      Delete
    68. I didn't have to demand it, UKan. She did it of her own will. Is that what you've been doing the past couple hours, pouring over the plumbo threads trying to find something to trip me up? Or what?

      Delete
    69. Out of all the people who have ever come to this blog, I feel I have been the most open and honest about myself.

      The missus sure doesn't see it this way. She thinks it's all a part of your sociopathic 'game', which to says to me that she is idealizing you. I guess that's why she's been saying that you and UKan are a lot alike lately, even though I think you're pretty different.

      But you are absolutely correct. People will see what they want to see, no matter what you say or don't say.

      Delete
    70. No she did it because I fucking told her too.

      No the past few hours I've been having quality time with my wife. I haven't even looked at the Plumbo thread, Medusa, but i can pull it up in three minutes just like I did a second ago when you doubted me to show that you are pure bollocks. Pure bollocks. I'm getting sick of your arrogance. I've been trying to be nice to you, but you take my kindness for weakness you cunt and that's where you are fucked up.

      Delete

    71. Isn't that cocky of you. You think that the power is in your hands and you make demands. You don't understand the gravity of the situation do you Dumbo? I want you to come on here and beg. Really beg. Use the word whore to describe yourself and praise the names of Raven and Medusa. Make it pathetic and make it real. Dig deep, as deep as you can for the words. I saw you singing. I'm sure you can make it heart felt. I think we can all agree if you lick the ground and swallow the dirt that you may go in peace. Medusa and Raven, would you be satisfied with that?

      Think of your husband and your children. I wonder what your husband would think when he saw the passion you had for your boyfriend. Quick question, when was the last time you were that excited for him? I bet he would wonder that. And your children. How sad. Daddy would teach them that their mum is a terrible person who hates them. Daddy would tell them that you were a whore. Oh, I'm sure it would go back and forth "He's the bad guy" ----"She's the bad guy". One day they would be told the truth and grow to resent you. Mummy didn't care about us.....What would you do to keep your family together Dumbo? How deep can you dig to obtain mercy?


      I did it as a gift. I thought you two would enjoy someone begging you. At least Raven had the decency to thank me, unlike you. Ungrateful arrogant knob.

      Delete
    72. That's a fucking work of art. Every piece of it designed to pull a string.

      Delete
    73. No she did it because I fucking told her too.

      I remember you making demands way late in the game. I noticed that. It was like you were trying to take ownership of the whole thing, because, like I said earlier, you can't handle not being the invisible hand that controls everything around here. Plumbo wasn't really paying attention to you; you weren't really involved. Raven and I did the work; she was a hell of a lot more scared of us than she was of you.

      I also remembering you saying, "good job girls" as if you viewed Raven and I as disciples of yours.

      Delete
    74. Don't tell me what I see. Don't presume to know me, Medusa, you've been in left field of late.
      They are similar. And I like her. But I don't idealize her. I'd call her an interesting kind of crazy, though I might be intimidated by her in real life. Some of her open stories I find daunting.

      Medusa, your individualism hinders you.

      Delete
    75. Strange because right after my post eden said:

      Mmmmm....

      What a grand idea. My mouth is watering just thinking about it.
      Just when I thought the flame had been blown out. You're lovely.


      You didn't have the imagination to do anything medusa. It was already dying down. I waited for someone to make the kill but people just wanted to fuck around posting stuff. You were not even threatening her or blackmailing her. Eden got the info by manipulating her. I got her to beg you two. You took my gift and spat on it. Fuck you. I'm done with your fragile ego.

      Delete
    76. Hey, hey, kids. Why don't we take this outside where its easier to keep up with?

      Delete
    77. haha! This is getting fun! Medusa... you can have all the credit. :D I could care less. You took over that post the moment I put it up. I wasn't even going in the direction of exposing her. I was just taunting her because her husband had grounded her from the site.

      It's true that I was digging at her through the emails. I wanted her to willingly expose herself to me. because she wanted to prove herself so badly.
      I wanted that for my own personal amusement. I didn't care if anyone else got to see it.

      The moment you saw I was up to something, you first made a jab at me, asking if I was having some manic fit. Then, once I told you Plumbo had been emailing me, you took over.

      So fast my head spun! haha!

      So... you go on and take all the credit you like. What UKan did... I honestly saw just as he said it; a gift. That's why I thanked him. My thread had plateaued. Plumbo was not coming back to beg us as I said I wanted her to. UKan's thread nailed it in a little harder. She may have held out for as long as her pride would allow, but I believe that UKan's threats were taken more seriously.

      Delete
    78. And you say you're not a sociopath;-)
      and Monica says you care deeply and have empathy. :-) sigh. I just love it.

      Delete
    79. Because this wasn't about any of this shite medusa is turning it around to be. Someone asked why I thought medusa wasn't a psychopath. I said because she told me she wasn't. She claimed she never said it. I posted her comment saying it. She made a fool of herself and shot this topic all over the place. That's what she does when she gets defensive. She's acting like these new booties that act like me saying she is not a sociopath means that I reject them in totality. That's never been the case with anyone. I like anyone that is cruel despite our differences in mentality.

      Delete
    80. It was a gift medusa. That was the mentality I had and I tried to convey it by making her beg Eden and you. If I wanted to take over I could have, easily. I could have made her beg me. I could have not accepted her begging and emailed her husband anyway. I even told you after when you accepted that half arsed beg that it was you two's call though I didn't agree. Your ego is so big you can't accept a gift. You have to make it about you and you being in control.

      Delete
  6. www.meatspin.com check it out

    ReplyDelete
  7. No way is Medusa a sociopath. She has stopping ability. Even Kany has stopping ability.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What does that mean?

      Delete
    2. It means they have some reason and are not thick like a brick, emotionally, like a fucking Mac truck, skidding on ice.

      Delete
    3. Monica you keep trying to find 'keys' to who is a sociopath or not and then you obsess about it until you come up with the next one. You can't tell who is a sociopath or not by one trait, let alone by their behavior on a sociopath blog.

      Delete
    4. There you are Medusa. I was beginning to think you were laying low. What have you been at?

      Delete
    5. My birthday week. Lots of social activity. What, you miss me or something?

      Delete
    6. I really disagree with you, Medusa. From my observations, a Narc up to Mal Narc, has feelings which can be evoked from his interactions with others. A sociopath does not or if he does, it is a horse of a different color. It is different, in kind, not degree.

      I am not bragging about myself, but I think I can, indeed, have some rudimentary "diagnosis" from keys, such as this.

      Delete
    7. Of course:-)
      happy birthday. I hope you had a lot of fun.

      Delete
    8. Monica, what did we tell you about the narc word?
      I evoke feelings in my husband. What does that have to do with his unquestionable sociopathy?
      you want keys into sociopathy, ask someone who knows them already. Stop wasting your time doing your own research on a topic already covered that you just can't comprehend.

      Delete
    9. Malignant narcissist in your definition of the word is not a proven diagnosis. Most psychologists use the word Malignant Narcissist to describe someone who's narcissism is above mentally healthy. The term outside of wikipedia and one psychologist is not what you define at all.

      Delete
    10. I have my own research --in vivo. Do you know what the fuck that is, Kany?

      Delete
    11. Thanks, miss. I had a nice birthday.

      Delete
    12. Research = Getting fingerbanged by your mother

      Delete
    13. I can guess, or google can save me.

      Delete
    14. Anyway, I don't want to win any prizes. I want to figure out some of these things, so I can move on. That's all.

      Delete
    15. Well, until then we do what we can to help.

      Delete
  8. You really can"t know anything for sure, so you have to use judgement. The touring machine "fooling" would not work for more than a few minutes. The psychopath faking rehab, can be found out, by holding cameras on him, and then beating the absolute fucking shit out of him, then replay the footage, and look for any emotional responses, just like blade runner. A psychopath cant hide. Fuck You And Your Mamma Too!

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    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My mother? I'll tell you about my mother.

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      And it's Turing machine, not touring, you dolt.

      Delete
    2. Suck it, whore.


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      Delete
    3. Shove it up your ass, Badass! That's about all you're good for.

      Delete
    4. You little faggot fuck, me after school at the fucking playground, we'll see what the fuck's up.

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      Delete
    5. Come on then Badass!
      Should I be on the lookout for a skinny, acne covered ginger with buckteeth who's wearing hip hop gear because he's so tough? That's pretty much how I imagine you.

      Delete
    6. Sorry, bro, this tall ripped 200lbs will fuck your ass right up!

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      Delete
    7. LMAO!! Riiiight. I'll believe that when you post a pic of yourself. Until then, shove that finger back up your ass Badass!

      Delete
    8. Ahh, you're making me feel good now, jealous faggot bitch!!

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      Delete
    9. Sit on it and swivel, pinky finger.

      Delete
    10. Ellicit, that's the part that feels good for him.

      Badass, shove it in nice and deep then give yourself a Dirty Sanchez. You've earned it.

      Delete
    11. AnonymousJune 27, 2012 4:47 PM

      grow a pair alter and start posting with your own name

      Delete
    12. You think pinky finger is Alter? I can't see that.

      Delete
    13. Faggot, my middle finger's been up my ass plenty, i'll let you suck it after next time, you dirty little faggot.

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      Delete
    14. Alter is very intelligent and articulate. Pinky finger is borderline illiterate and incoherent. No way it's alter.

      Delete
    15. Where'd you little fucking bitches go?, are you fucking bitch homo fucks hiding now?

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      Delete
    16. Alter is very intelligent and articulate. Pinky finger is borderline illiterate and incoherent. No way it's alter.

      not finger, this person;

      LMAO!! Riiiight. I'll believe that when you post a pic of yourself. Until then, shove that finger back up your ass Badass!

      Delete
  9. It only needs to work for a few minutes, and even then only 70% of the time. I was actually surprised by how apt the comparison was. Once someone likes you, they'll overlook things reflexively; it's really only necessary to get that 5 minutes. First impressions are everything. Obviously you can only push it so far, and that 30% failure rate is fairly accurate.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Besides the censorship, Zhawqs blog format is better. Was this what you had dreamed your blog would turn into ME, a race to see who posts first ? You ignored people when they complained about the new format. Now this place is boring, there is no reason to come here, other than to see if you have come to your senses yet

    ReplyDelete
  11. Besides the censorship, Zhawqs blog format is better. Was this what you had dreamed your blog would turn into ME, a race to see who posts first ? You ignored people when they complained about the new format. Now this place is boring, there is no reason to come here, other than to see if you have come to your senses yet

    ReplyDelete
  12. Besides the censorship, Zhawqs blog format is better. Was this what you had dreamed your blog would turn into ME, a race to see who posts first ? You ignored people when they complained about the new format. Now this place is boring, there is no reason to come here, other than to see if you have come to your senses yet

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The fact you visit that idiots blog discredits anything you say.

      Delete
    2. I have to admit I still find the new format tedious and not worth keeping up with in general. Its too hard on a mobile device. The scrolling sucks. But the recent comments helps when I'm caught up.

      Delete
    3. Yes does still suck and I've tried three different browsers on my phone and this blog still doesn't work right on any of them. But obviously whining about it is not going to do any good.

      Delete
    4. zhawq is a bitch, you're a bitch.

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      Delete
  13. ukan do all sociopaths want power and money or would some be fine living in a small appartment?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think most people in general want to be rich, sociopaths aren't different in that. However, power is something that sociopaths constantly crave and will do anything to get.

      Delete
  14. No, dingbat. All sociopaths want to live in luxury. We climb on the back of retards like you to get there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dingbat. Ha ha. That's funny because my father likes calling people that.

      Delete
    2. Heh... so does my father. He always called my sister a dingbat, and his father did as well!

      Delete
    3. Sounds like something alter would say

      Delete
    4. Yeah she likes to impersonate me. She still can't get over how much of a fool I made of her.

      Delete
    5. Alter has so much more going on, than you or Kany, UKan. She is both of your superiors, with all due respect.

      Delete
    6. Do you want me to make a list on how Alter is superior to you and Kany? I can make a scientific chart.

      Delete
    7. LOL. The only list that could be shorter is the one of the people that admire you Monica. Jesus might love you both, but everyone else still thinks you're pathetic.

      Delete
    8. You're so cute when you try to be offensive to people you look up to.

      Delete
    9. You want a long list, I can make one of every narcissist that's stepped in here that you cheer lead monica. As soon as some narcissist enters you are instantly all over them. Maybe they remind you of your mother that told you that you weren't good enough. You think it's another chance to get the approval you never got.

      Delete
    10. Monica, one time you were arguing with Alter about Christianity, and you said "God was the only thing I had left" or something like that, and I told her that you were more of a real Christian than she was.

      Last week when I sort of got through to her in the forums, she said the exact same thing to me, because she thought it would impress me I guess, since it worked for you. She was starting to copy you. That's when I gave up on her.

      Delete
    11. Here is the thing you are missing, imo, Medusa. A Christian is still flawed, in all the same ways they were before. They are flawed in humility, personality, maturity and all the rest. They have changed in one part of them, only. In their personality, ego and body, they are still the same.

      Alter is trying to find her way, out of her past, with her limitations. She is here, doing that personal search. I applaud her for that.

      Ukan and Kany are here to fuck with people, although UKan does have good things to say. Kany does once in a while, in the few moments she stops trying to be a bad ass.

      Delete
    12. Yes, I'm sure she's trying to find her way, but that doesn't mean I can't still call out her bullshit. I mean, that's the whole value of this place, right?

      I mean, no one is going to say, "Oh Alter, you'll get there one day! You are doing great, just keep reaching for the stars!"

      Who is here for that kind of treatment (besides you)?

      Delete
    13. You are not a good judge of character Monica. That much can be certain. Look at all the people you have cheered on to crush me. They all left embarrassed hat in hand.

      This one is not the one UKan! He's too strong minded to react to you! Remember how many times you have said that? You are always wrong. It's not that I have superpowers of the tongue, it's that I know how to pick them. I know when I see a target.

      Alter doesn't need to find her way out of her past. She is melodramatic. She wasn't some gangster. She wasn't some killer. She wasn't some rapist, prostitute, serial killer, hired gun, terrorist, or anything that dedicates itself to crime so much that it is difficult to get out of. She vandalized some stuff and stole a few candy bars. I know maybe in Suzyville Sunland where you and her live that maybe an arch criminal but from here it's just laughable. It's the usual narcissist melodrama. The back in the day bad guy role that seems to be so common among them. As if her immense strength pulled her out of psychopathy and pulled her towards Jesus.

      Oh Falter how did you do it? Tell us Falter so we can be boring just like you.

      Delete
  15. This raises a couple questions for me:
    1: Would a sociopath, A, hire or cooperate with what s/he knows to be another sociopath, B, on a project, business venture, etc.?

    2: Would A give B a second chance if B fucked up?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hired a guy that used to rob drug dealers that I was sure was a sociopath. He was difficult to give orders to unless it was fun for him. He liked shaking people down. He never really fucked up. He's more freelance now because I no longer needed his services unless there's a crisis.

      Delete
    2. He sounds like Omar from The Wire.

      Delete
    3. That's funny. I told him that too. I had him watch the show but he wasn't too happy that I described him as someone who was a homosexual.

      Delete
    4. That's too bad. Omar was one of the best and most interesting characters ever on television.

      Delete
    5. Yes. I loved Omar. And McNulty, of course.

      Delete
    6. No kidding. He's awesome in that show!

      Delete
    7. Ah.... The Wire. Brilliant show. I was hooked like a 'Jose' on UKan's dick!

      Delete
    8. Did anyone see "In Treatment"?

      Delete
    9. What did you think, Medusa? Who was the most interesting patient, to you?

      Delete
    10. I loved the show, even though it was a little too 'actorly' and had too many patients chewing on scenery. Almost like a teleplay.

      My favorite, by far, was the Indian guy.

      Delete
    11. But that might have been just because his acting performance was incredible.

      Delete
    12. I just saw the first season, but I think it was cancelled, after that. I don't remember the Indian guy. There was Laura, who was in love with him, the black guy, the pilot, the little girl who did gymnastics and the couple with the crazy wife. Do you mean the black guy :P

      Delete
    13. The Indian guy was in the 3rd season. Show was cancelled after that.

      Laura was the most annoying of all of them.

      Delete
    14. 2nd and 3rd seasons are better than the first. The first was comparatively kinda lame.

      Delete
    15. Marlo was fucking awesome.

      Delete
    16. I loved in treatment! I hated the narcissist actress. I loved the cancer patient and the Indian guy. A lot of other people were unlikeable. I hated his wife and his fucking biased therapist!

      Delete
  16. I saw en treatment. I liked the indian guy. He really twisted that therapist up.

    The wire is my favourite show. Marlo was the king

    ReplyDelete
  17. I want to ask you a question.

    Here is my question. If someone's daughter is being abused, in a marriage. She asks the father for help.She says,"I thought a father protects a daughter. The father says, No one protected me"

    What do you think?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fact, of course. Why would I put up fiction.

      Delete
    2. I think your father doesn't love you.

      Delete
    3. What are you asking? Do you want to hear he should've helped her and that he's a vindictive malignant narcissist? Or would you rather hear he couldn't do anything for himself when it happened to him, so he couldn't teach you to be strong for yourself and he couldn't be strong for you because no one taught him.
      Hey are you playing a blame game? What difference does it make to the fact that you couldn't protect yourself, and couldn't learn it from them, so now you need to learn to protect yourself from wherever you can. Maybe that is what brings you to the shark tank.

      Delete
    4. YES, I think I realized that, tonight. I have had recurrent dreams for years. I was at various places and I called for a ride home and he wouldn't give it. Recurrent dreams are trying to tell you what you won't face.

      Delete
    5. Thank you monica~
      so what won't you face? Talk about it.

      Delete
    6. Nobody cared. I was a throw away, like when you throw old things away that don't matter.

      Delete

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