Monday, June 18, 2012

Just world hypothesis

I have been reading "Power: Why Some People Have It and Others Don't," by Stanford Business School professor Jeffrey Pfeffer.  I may highlight other aspects of the book, but I was struck by his description of the just world hypothesis (or just world fallacy) and how it limits the way people learn and (more importantly for this book) acquire power:

The belief in a just world has two big negative effects on the ability to acquire power. First, it hinders people’s ability to learn from all situations and all people, even those whom they don’t like or respect. I see this all the time in my teaching and work with leaders. One of the first reactions people have to situations or cases about power is whether or not the individual “likes” the person being studied or can identify with the object of study. Who cares? It is important to be able to learn from all sorts of situations and people, not just those you like and approve of, and certainly not just from people you see as similar to yourself. In fact, if you are in a position of modest power and want to attain a position of great power, you need to pay particular attention to those holding the positions you aspire to.

Second, this belief that the world is a just place anesthetizes people to the need to be proactive in building a power base. Believing that the world is fair, people fail to note the various land mines in the environment that can undermine their careers.
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The pervasiveness of the belief in a just world, called in social psychology the “just-world hypothesis,” was first described by Melvin Lerner decades ago. Lerner argued that people wanted to think that the world was predictable and comprehensible and, therefore, potentially controllable. Or, as another psychologist described it, from early childhood “we learn to be ‘good and in control’ people.” How else could we navigate a world that is random and can’t be controlled without feeling thwarted and frustrated much of the time? The desire for control and predictability results in a tendency to see the world as a just place because a just world is one that is also understandable and predictable. Behave by the rules and you will be all right; fail to follow the rules and bad things will happen.

The just-world hypothesis holds that most people believe that “people get what they deserve; that is, that the good people are likely to be rewarded and the bad to be punished.

I really like the point about trying to learn from any and all sources, regardless of whether we respect or like that source.  I think when I was a small child I had a very acute sense of fairness.  It was only after I (at a very young age) realized that the world was not fair that I attempted to do my own version of gaming it.  Sometimes I wish that the world was more meritocratic, but if I'm honest with myself, I like the element of chance and excitement that this world provides.  It's hard work, and I often find myself on the losing end of a power struggle, but I bet I would be immediately bored if it were any other way.

A final thought from the book about the just world hypothesis and how good a judge of character most people are:

Most important, the phenomenon works in reverse: if someone is seen to prosper, there is a social psychological tendency for observers to decide that the lucky person must have done something to deserve his good fortune. He or she becomes a better person . . . simply by virtue of the observed rewards.




173 comments:

  1. I fully believe in the just world theory. From what i have seen the world is just, people get what they deserve. I don't see how Jeffrey Pfeffer would think that the world is not fair. The Russians did not raise up against Stalin and they got punished, the German did not assassinate Hitler and they lost the war, African Americans did not kill their master and they got enslaved, Native Americans did not kill the first Europeans and they got conquered. The free market is fair, everything has a price and every action is paid in one way or an other. The very fact that the fabric of reality operate under laws, means that the world is fair.

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    1. I disagree. The world is not that fair. Of course, there are plenty of elements in the legal systems and society in general that point to fairness, but this is not always the case. The starving children in Africa, the success of greedy CEOs, the unsolved murders that continue to pile up everyday. The world is not just, only a failing attempt to achieve universal justice.

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    2. People did rise against Stalin and they were all executed. Africans rose against slavery and they were hung. The natives who fought the Europeans were slaughtered. There's no justice in the world. Just nature. Nature doesn't care about fairness.

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    3. UKan

      And what did the Jews do to Hitler and Germany?

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    4. They didnt all go willingly to the slaughterhouse some fought back. Like the warsaw uprising. Warsaw ghetto uprising was crushed. They went out with a bang but it wasn't enough. They lacked the leadership to evolve armed struggle to the point of protracted warfare.

      On that note hitlers reign was short lived as far as the history of conquerers are concerned. His schizophrenia made him weak and in the end he took himself off the board.

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    5. "There is no free lunch" is not the same as a "just world".

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    6. UKanJune 18, 2012 8:55 AM
      The ones who didn't rise up to Stalin go what they deserved, because they didn't rise up against him. The African American who didn't kill their slave masters accepted slavery but not doing that. Get off your high horses guys. The world is not the world in your head. That is kind of justice is just arrogance and condescending. Nature is just, the laws of physics does not change, we all play by the same rules. What can be more fair than the unchanging laws written in math?

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    7. AnonymousJune 18, 2012 3:41 AM

      You have a very condescending and self-centered view of justice. In my books, we all play by the same rules, which are physics and economics. I fully accept these rules, and not accepting them is just delusional. By trying to make a world that goes against these rules for the fantasy in your head is just nuts. For example, lets ban drugs because we want to live in a world without drugs. They tried to overrule the laws of supply and demand. The result is that they can't even keep drugs out of prison, the most draconian system, let alone in society. Stalin and the Russians, were so arrogant and delusional that they thought they could assert their will on supply and demand by price and wage control. The result was mass starvation and the destruction of their empire. The pope thought he can control the laws of nature by claiming that the Sun circles the Earth and burning books, the result is 1000 years of lost progress. Think about what you are saying. How can your fantasy land have any baring on realty? Reality operates on laws that can not be changed. I am an arrogant person but even i am humble enough to know i can't change reality.

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    8. MɵᴅʊsaJune 18, 2012 2:59 PM

      I agree. Do you agree that we all play by the same rules of physics and economics? If so than the world is fair. If not please show me how to break these rules.

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    9. The African American who didn't kill their slave masters accepted slavery but not doing that.

      Whoa. So you are saying they got what they deserved because they 'accepted' (in your mind) slavery. So their continued slavery is justice for them not having committing murder? What kind of Möbius mind-fuckery is that?

      Talk about arrogant and condescending... sheesh.

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  2. YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS

    In the empath world, the moral code doesn’t say: “the winner takes all”, it rather says: “the winner is admired because he shares his prize”. It says “You want power, then you must give to your supporters”, it says: we have helped you; now it’s your turn to help us.

    I mean: if sociopaths accept the moral code of empath world, they will end up acting in the benefit of empaths and they will always be underdogs among them, as they will never be able to interpret understatements as accurately as they do. On the contrary, if sociopaths disregard the moral code of empaths and create one of their own, they will never fit anywhere in the empath world; they’ll become misfits, agents of revolution, they will have to try and build up a sociopath world (a real one, this time) where they can climb up to the top relying on their own personality traits.

    What is really unimaginable, unfeasible, is that sociopaths, supposedly lacking the genetic built-in system that enables empaths to take advantage of their own world, should aspire to be “high functioning”, successful, powerful, in that same world that the empaths inhabit. If sociopaths accept empaths’ moral code, if they take empath world the way it is they can’t expect brilliant results. YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

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    1. Who says a sociopath needs to reject the empath moral code to be more successful? A sociopath in a seat of great power would not reject the empaths ways because they can easily manipulate

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    2. Which empath's moral code should I adopt? There are so many to choose from ...

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    3. What is this world you have in your head, juan? The empath world? People with empathy are not in some unified front, nor are sociopaths. The world has always been divided. Morals and ideologies change with the times. The only universal principle that's stayed constant is that the weak will always be at the mercy of the strong.

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    4. Juan I appreciate the way in which you delivered ... they just don't know and we don't make it easy to see with the destruction that has occurred due to our beliefs however what they don't and can not see is the "spark of life" that connects an empath to empath regardless of language barriers or beliefs understanding our oneness with each other is the key to our future success if success is even attainable .....

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  3. If you think the world is fair you are obviously a dumb fuck, it is blatantly rigged by those in power to keep themselves in power. I pretty much figured this out when I was a kid just by thinking about money, "holy shit, this thing that everyone uses... its just like, paper, someone just prints this shit, and there's no fucking way the money printer isn't printing a shit load for themselves!" I mean how more obvious can you get? They are basically exposing themselves these days so that they don't have to hide their covert hierarchy anymore, rockefeller proudly claims so in his memoirs, you fucking fools.

    "For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure -- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

    And what, the world is fair and just because average citizens like myself who have never seen rockefeller in real life are guilty of not assassinating him? So I get what I deserve for not having access to these people and the means to eliminate them?

    BTW for good socio quotes just read the quotes of any modern day powerhead involved in the grand conspiracy.

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  4. Truthfully, the universe is a dangerous place, you try to stay out of it, but sometimes it comes looking for you, same for everyone. Only stupid people think of fairness then danger as punishment. Those who can see through this crap know that power is like chess, and zuckerberg gotchu.

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    1. Good point, Finger.

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    2. Nepotism is the breakfast of champions...atleast thats how power is gained in the state of NJ. I have more education than some local lawmakers.

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  5. "rockefeller proudly claims so in his memoirs, you fucking fools."

    Your a fucking idiot. What rockafeller meant here was that you can think whatever you want about the "effects" of his success, due to jealousy or whatever, but whatever you think "fuck you", because what my wealth really does is:

    from wikipedia:
    "His fortune was mainly used to create the modern systematic approach of targeted philanthropy. He was able to do this through the creation of foundations that had a major effect on medicine, education, and scientific research.[7]"

    And I am damn proud of it.

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    1. Wow, you really are DUMB AS FUCK. No point in trying to teach a blind man to see...

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  6. You know, I've been lurking around here for a while... And I've been thinking...
    I don't think anyone is inherently evil, being labelled a sociopath, psychopath, whatever path you choose may seem pretty badass, with all the stigma attached to it... but I think you guys are okay, you're all very entertaining, I like how you seriously consider spiritual matters, instead of following a general idea...

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  7. I'm not a socio, I like like kicking these assholes around.

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    1. Yeah right. More like you like getting kicked around. Don't lie.

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    2. :) finger I'm definitely not a socio either but I'm learning all I can & no one enjoys being kicked around Ukan! Especially you right ;)

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  8. We just like the path labels because they make us seem scary and intelligent :) we are a pretty harmless bunch. Just bored a lot.

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    1. Not many people offering up praise though. You seem refreshingly interesting, what's your name? :)

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    2. Thanks Anon 7:31, my name is CockSuck5.

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    3. LOL. Sorry Anon 7:31, I was just fucking with you. My real name is AnalSpread3.

      Thanks! Luv ya!

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  9. When I see victim types on my FB, I want to smash them and say" Break out of it". In turn, I am trying to decide when and where to use my own strength, as there is a time to hack someone and a time to walk away. The main thing is that you have to have the ABILITY to hack someone, if need be. I always had the ability. I just made a decision to suppress it, as that seemed the better choice for my survival.

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    1. When you give up your power, you only survive because you become a slave to those in power.

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    2. Monica

      I have read some of your posts about your mother and
      I am curious about the relationship that she had with
      her mother?

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    3. My mother's mother was pretty normal. All my extended family is pretty normal except for my mother.

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    4. Then your family is more unique than others

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    5. Monica sorry you had to deal with a parent incapable of getting you I hope your successful in your recovery

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  10. "there is a time to hack someone and a time to walk away. "

    Revenge is often the main desire when it comes to someone else. But why even waste the effort? A better way to get revenge is to be happy, having fun, and successful, and make them jealous as hell. Do all the things you want to do they tried to hold you back from. - Duh.

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    1. Actually, I am doing all that now, Finger.

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  11. In some sense people get what they deserve not because of moral or immoral behaviour, but because of personal strength or lack thereof. Nature weeds out the weak. They die forgotten in sands of time. However history records those who stand tall in the face of adversity. There's no justice. There's just natural selection.

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    1. Wrong. Nature doesn't matter much, except to idiots, intelligence does, retard.

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    2. Nature gives some intelligence and some none. That's how you ended up here crying about sociopaths. You weren't smart enough.

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    3. Intelligence can be used or not, hence you smoke pot. Nature is your king, but not mine, I can control it with my mind.

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    4. Nah, intelligence is a gift. Few people have it. Take care of your brain while you still got it, UKan.

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    5. Ill have my brain until its blown out the back of my head. Till then nature put me here to rise above the weak and step on the pathetic. People like you finger are not intelligent. You're just another coward. Running your mouth in a space safe for you wishing you could get revenge but you don't have the heart to pull the trigger. Even that finger is borrowed from Jason. Another weak coward who was too scared in real life to stand up for himself.

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    6. "Ill have my brain until its blown out the back of my head."

      Oooooh, hahaha, I knew you live in the projects.

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    7. "don't have the heart to pull the trigger"

      No need to pull triggers, as much as I hate people, i'd rather let them rot in their own pile of shit, a future much worse than death.

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    8. Your response is typical of a person living scared. Very typical. You run your mouth about killing sociopaths but in the end settle for a fantasy that we live a life worse than death to excuse your lack of bravery.

      Reality check cunt. My life is better than yours and most people on this earth. Everyday I wake up i feel fucking amazing. I have no outstanding grudges, all my scores are settled, I have no money problems, I have the luck of the irish, I have plenty in savings, and I do what I want 24/7. Compare this to your life you pathetic loser. The person that fucked you over wont even remember your name. Here you are, though, sitting on a site you related to him. Hurt and angry. Ha ha ha ha. Hurt, angry, but too weak to do anything about it but cry on here.

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    9. "live a life worse than death to excuse your lack of bravery."

      You'll get your's bitch, just come into my house at night with a weapon, then just before you eat it, remember what you said a few posts ago, faggot.

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    10. "I have no outstanding grudges, all my scores are settled, I have no money problems, I have the luck of the irish, I have plenty in savings, and I do what I want 24/7. "

      Sounds boring, like a boring faggot's life.

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    11. Keep thinking that. Here I am on a blog glorifying people like me with a bunch of cunts boasting about making suckers like you suffer and here you are daily getting angry about it. Your life is pathetic and you know it. If you could you'd be just like me, admit it. This display you put on here isnt outrage as much as its envy. You wish you had the guts to carry out your will. You wish you had the courage to crush your enemies, but you don't.

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    12. His finger could

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    13. His finger is only good enough to stick up his own ass while jerking off thinking of getting back at the sociopath that abused him. Stupid fucker really thinks spewing this shit on here makes him a strong brave hero.

      You get kicked around on here so much because people like you never do anything brave in their entire lives except go on and on how brave they are. You redefine pathetic loser, finger. You really should teach your sociopath a lesson by slicing your wrists open and crying look what you made me do! At least then you would entertain somebody and your life will not have been conpletely in vain, you pathetic dexter wannabe

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    14. I gotchu you little fucks. Mad are we? Wounded? Fucking faggots.

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    15. :) wrong Ukran we live we smile with joy we can feel laugh play enjoy life no masks needed to fake it ... u only understand $ & power

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    16. Ur a sociopath... No empathy.. Why deny it????

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    17. Maybe because the person above has empathy :|

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    18. God??? Just because the highest being has empathy does not mean we shouldn't aspire to that ideal.. Today's society is full of arrogant brats who think a weekly confession to their sexually frustrated priest will get them there...

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    19. God??? I can point to an oodle of naive brats who think that a confession to their sexually frustrated priest will absolve them of acting like assholes. The awakening will occur on the downward descent.

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    20. Oops my bad... I double published

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  12. My e mail doesn't work to get me on the forum, so I wanted to give a shout out to Raven *Hi Ya*

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    1. You keep saying this.

      Get a new email address. Or request your forgotten password. Or post without logging in.

      Delete
    2. I like how your picture on there looks weirder and weirder

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  13. I think that UKan has a point about winners and losers.

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  14. Yeah, its like, either allow fear to dictate your actions, you'll have to rely on fear [dominance] to keep what you've built up on this, fear, distrust, all that nasty business, or decide to let it all go, after all, is it really worth your peace of mind? Just so you don't have to feel alone.
    Aw...

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  15. I don't see sociopaths or narcs "winners" as sometimes they
    are "loosers" just like everyone, else, and it shows your lack of intelligence to express otherwise.

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    1. Nobody specified narcissists or sociopaths as winners. We are talking about power and winning in general. Everyone can be a loser sociopath or not. There are very few winners out there.

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    2. You know, I was a loser but no more. I am gonna be a winner.

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    3. UKan

      Yes, there are very few winners out there because the
      "powerful" have damaged their own lives and souls.

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    4. You can be a winner, in a good way, like a strong person but not a bully or an asshole, just someone who has his own power.

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    5. UKan

      ^Correction: "the powerful that are evil" have damaged their own lives and souls.

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    6. You're delusional Monica, completely delusional.

      There's this girl I treated like complete shit. I treated her so bad she developped an eating disorder and started cutting herself when she had no history of self harm, but yet she still stayed with me and still told me she loved me. She even thanked me for giving her an eating disorder and told me she used to hate it but now she loves it. She told me she was happier than ever.

      You people are very much alike. Completely delusional. Your brain was so hurt that it had to defend itself. This feeling isn't going to last, though. That's not how it works. Everything will fall apart again and again, until you finally realise that you're worth nothing but a bullet in your head.

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    7. LOL Why am I biting? Why am I delusional? Answer with a valid explanation, not just "You cunt, you whore" etc

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    8. Natural selection is about competition for survival within a species. The strong take from the weak. It is the natural order of things.

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    9. Limey

      Can we imply that there is Universal codes "built in?"
      The jury is still out on this - yes?

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    10. ^Wrong frame - should be in response to 11:40

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    11. There are universal codes! But they are not understandable to a path

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    12. The ironic part of these posts is that this is an awareness site right?.alot of you I find to be verbally abusive narcissists who do some evil shit to people.. Why do u spend ur time on here talking like finger.. A backwater sounding person calling people Faggots. Its a shame for this site .. Atleast try to sound intelligent when arguing.

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  16. UKAN IS AN IDIOT - MEDUSA

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  17. What's this about winners and losers? Is it mating season in here this time around? Let's not go on like a bunch of horned moose. We don't have to prove anything to anyone, if anyone judges you then they've got the exact same problem they're judging you about.

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    1. Fortune cookie wisdom straight from Mother Goose books. If you judge people you have an opinion and perspective. Right or wrong that's better than not having an opinion at all. You got to make judgements about people or be doomed to a life of accepting everyone. That's how people get suckered.

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    2. True You are on a roll UKan

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    3. Well now, that's what you've got common sense for, I'm sure you of all people should be able to realise if and when you're being 'suckered'. If you choose to manipulate people it comes back around buddy. But you don't need to live in fear because of it, that's a bit dramatic.

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    4. I lived my whole life as a cunt and I've been rewarded greatly for it. My brother played life by the book. He's the total opposite of me. His wife cheated on him and left him, he's knee deep in debt, he drives a bmw that breaks down constantly. My parents call me the good son, despite beating up my father, going to prison, and causing massive amounts of havoc. My brother gets angry about it. I work 6 hours a week and I'm doing great. He works 6 days a week and goes to church on Sunday. He told me ill never be happy till I turn to god and no matter how much money or nice things I have I will be miserable. He sent me that email while I was jet skiing in Grand Cayman with my wife and he was alone in his crumby flat tired from work reading my facebook posts I sent from a bar I went to when we docked. The reality is he's alone and miserable. Wiping the smile off my face wont happen, because even in the darkest holes of my country I still kept my shite eating grin.

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    5. If you choose to manipulate people it comes back around buddy.

      You and your friends keep saying this over and over and over again. When, exactly, does it come back around? And how is talking about something you guess will happen, with nothing to back you up but karma, supposed to frighten someone?

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    6. Answer: It doesn't. It's merely to make yourself feel better, because you already fear you have lost.

      Threatening people with 'karma' shows that's all you have left -- some kind of specious idea of justice. Assuming the world is 'just' is all you have left.

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    7. specious great word ^^^^^^

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    8. Thanks, it's one of my favorites.

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    9. It's true. Karma is the refuge of the weak. It gives people a delusional sense of justice and an excuse to let things go unanswered.

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    10. "My parents call me the good son"

      Sure they're not being sarcastic, or are you just plain dumb?

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    11. Ukan:

      Some would say thinking of Karma is not even free. Because you still hold onto thinking about revenge to a person who should mean n o t h i n g to you but a piece of toilet paper used to wipe your dirty ass?

      Wouldn't getting a lobotomy even be better?

      Ukan you think you'd feel like lighting Monica's Mum on fire....seriously ,what would you do, if anything, to deal. How would you deal if you were Monica? Be in touch with anger and confront and sure that's the first step. But then what?

      What would you as your younger cunty self done?

      And how might you handle the situation differently in your non-cunty mindset you say you have now?

      Delete
    12. forget it you'd probably just go to tony robbins for a mind adjustment. you're so goddamned lucky, you arrogant fuck, you can be affected by that shit. I envy you.

      Delete
  18. To the author,

    I enjoyed reading your essay here, and I tend to agree with the points stated therein. I feel that there is a relationship to another topic like "Winning the Lottery", but I can't put my finger on what it is just yet.

    For instance, I understand that many people believe in this just world BS, but how do they justify buying lottery tickets? It seems counterintuitive.

    ReplyDelete
  19. "Life is fair" is just contextual. It's one thing saying people get out of life how much they put into it, and their successes are a measure of their character. - But to say people who do nothing wrong will then in turn not be "punished," just implies all wrongs done to people are punishments from some kind of almighty God?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The jury is still out on your question, right?

      Delete
    2. Karma, justice, and the wrath of god are just myths to make people feel better about getting trampled on their whole life.

      Delete
    3. Pure science is fair. Logic is fair.

      Those are pretty much the only things that are beholden to 'fairness'. And it's not even for anyone's benefit or 'karma', because it's indifferent and inherent.

      There is a reason people always say "all is fair in love and war". Because regarding those things, the two things that makes the world go 'round, anything goes.

      Delete
    4. Medusa

      All is fair in love and war.....
      This quote has many points of views, but I believe in one.
      Meaning; All is fair in love, so All is fair in war. This quote is quite ironice for it is contradicting the fact that nothing is ever fair in love and nothing is ever fair in war. So All is fair in love and war was true..it's being sarcastic.

      Delete
    5. This quote is quite ironice for it is contradicting the fact that nothing is ever fair in love and nothing is ever fair in war.

      No, it's not ironic or sarcastic. The point is that there are no rules; therefore everything is, in effect, fair. 'Unfair' doesn't exist in contexts where the concepts of justice don't even apply.

      Delete
    6. Unfair doesn't exit in contexts where the concepts of justice don't even apply.

      Justice applies....it's fair.

      Delete
  20. UKan
    Name some people you think are winners.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nelson mandella, joseph stalin, bill gates, tony robbins, steve jobs, Machiavelli, Henry VII, Vladimir Lenin, Gerry Adams, John Gotti, Al Capone, Robert Greene, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Emma Goldman, are just a few winners that struck me. There's a few I've met in my own life I can't mention.

      Delete
  21. I don't follow this site religiously so forgive me if this has been answered somewhere already,

    Ukan, have you been diagosed as a psychopath? What's your history like?

    I must admit, I've been impressed with your posts lately simply because you seem to be an unmasked psychopath, or what I would suspect one to seem like given what I know about them... to a point, the thing that confuses me is how you are so honest about it, you don't seem self-deceived or delusional like most others. It seems like a lot of butt hurt narcissists on this site DYING to obtain a label of sociopath instead of weak narcissist, including the blog owner who seems very self-deceived. I figure a true socio would be able to accept themselves due to their apathy, and so many on this site seem to be almost insecure with their need to label themselves as something more powerful, and not desperately try to prove that it is so.

    Its just that you seem to stand out, your whole online persona, your writing style, it seems more of what I'd expect from a socio/psycho. A lot of people here remind me of a very anxious and cynical depressed individual I knew in high school, they were the type to "troll" forums and online games, pissing people off, and they were far from a socio, but the behavior of some people here is VERY similar and I can almost imagine such an individual becoming delusional and trying to convince themselves they are a sociopath as an odd way to cope...

    I think socio/psychos do what narcissists do on a larger scale and are more aware of it. You seem to be more interested in controlling large groups of people whereas a lot of people here seem to target individual victims and convince themselves they are powerful because they have a "slave". I also notice your "sadistic" impulse tends to be different, you mentioned riots excite you but something like murder or torture doesn't, could you explain what type of "destruction" gives you pleasure and why that might be?

    Do you have your own blog?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UKan

      Not all people grasp or live their religious or spiritual life like your brother. And their lives are
      good and rewarding.

      Delete
    2. No. I made an attempt at a blog but I was too lazy to follow through. I'm not interested in talking about my past enough nor is it a good idea. I like figuring people out more than talking about myself. I don't have any need to cope so I have nothing to get off my chest.

      I like seeing chaos on a mass scale because people throw away all those inhibitions they normally have. Maybe I'm so full of myself that I like seeing everyone acting like me in unison. Maybe I lived under arbitrary rules for so long that watching people break them all feels free. Maybe I like feeling powerful by getting a massive amount of people to do what I want. Maybe I have no clue because everytime someones asked me why I keep doing something I have a different answer. Like its something more profound than malicious entertainment.

      People come here playing sociopath to excuse repressing emotions. They have the misconception that psychopaths lack emotions and since they are too weak to deal with them they think this will be a way out. Apathy is not psychopathy. It is depression.

      Delete
    3. Very insightful response. Could you just answer if you have been diagnosed or not? Also any insight into the psychopaths emotional life would be appreciated, do you value people's appreciation? (outside of pragmatic application like the thankful person being easier to control)

      Delete
    4. Its unimportant. I could give you a story about it that's pure bollocks and you wouldn't know if its true or not. Make your own judgements about who I am. Don't trust my self reports. A lot of people say they are diagnosed sociopaths on here and in the end turned out to be something completely different. One guy claiming to be a diagnosed psychopath murderer ex convict turned out to be a female rape victim with aspergers.


      I don't think anyone out there doesn't value appreciation. It feels good to be recognized as someone who can make things happen I don't care who you are.

      Delete
    5. Still idealizing people, miss masochist?

      UKan's got his own delusions as well.

      Delete
    6. I guess we share a delusion

      Delete
    7. Indeed. Not all delusions are bad.

      Delete
    8. Still idealizing science, mr. sarcastic

      Delete
    9. Well, you're an idiot. Nice try at a weak comeback, using my own words and failing. Why do people always do this? If you are going to use my argument as a boomerang, I should think you'd want to throw it at least as hard as I did.

      Listen. What science measures is black and white.

      What science measures, mind you. The measurements are black and white. Existence either is or is isn't.

      This is to say nothing of the application of science, which a whole different ball game.

      Delete
    10. You have been reduced to name calling? Pitiful

      Delete
    11. No, I was already calling you names.

      Delete
    12. I guess there's a thin line between conviction and delusion.

      Delete
    13. And here's another one for you: misogynist.

      Delete
    14. You can't really idealize science. It's like fucking to be a virgin.

      Delete
    15. I think certain kinds of delusions are necessary. Sometimes it's called 'faith in oneself' or 'confidence' taken to a large enough degree that makes you stand out from the other try-hard blow-hards.

      So yes, I agree. The line is fuzzy.

      Delete
    16. (I don't mean you 'you', I mean anyone 'you'. -stav)

      Delete
    17. Appreciation makes me feel empty, I don't think I value it like others do, I find myself "indifferent to the criticism or praise of others" which is one of several reasons why I might be considered schizoid, but the truth is I realize that other people's positive or negative judgements of you impacts the quality of life and since I want to keep that high I "prefer" to be appreciated, but really I find it almost a bit offensive because my thought is "whoa, you think your value judgement of me matters? you vocalized it so you must feel its important, yet its not worth anything and I don't want to hear it, or have to react to it" and this goes for positive appraisal just as much as it does for negative remarks, even more so in some ways.

      Anyway, I don't believe most stories people tell on here, but I find them insightful nonetheless. I feel there is a certain vibe to a "socio-story" and they seem to be different from your normal stories.

      Here is a good example though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee9HTsWA2_M

      One thing that really set my bullshit detectors off, besides the major stereotypes was the complete lack of mention of any horrible smell when it came to the dead animals, and any story I've ever heard about death mentioned this. Another thing is how it just gets more and more unrealistic, its like incrementalism, it increases and builds up in a way that you are more likely to accept it, because you've been primed. Its also really contrived, this relates the the stereotypical and cliche nature of the story.

      The main thing that interests me in ukan is his writing style, its styleless, it seems so impersonal, concise, straight forward, psychopathic in essence. Its less of what is said and more of how its said that is important to me, writing style is the body language of the internet in my mind.

      Anyway, I've just noticed a lot of members here seem insecure and needy and desperate to convince any readers out there that sociopaths are the complete opposite of what they are. They want people to think that sociopaths are generous, fair, moral, and every other ideal characteristic a more neurotypical person values, and I come here not to get the stock spiel of "I'm the perfect human being possessing every good quality one could want no matter how contradictory and impossible it is" or the "I'm just an asshole who likes to troll people and I swear its not coming from a place of insecurity or any weakness on my part" I just find it interesting/insightful/entertaining to watch cluster B type people interact, I find the sidelines amusing but being in the middle of it in real life to be annoying, like watching a swarm of flies form a helical pattern which I'd rather not have surround my face.

      Delete
    18. Delusions can be useful if you know they are delusions. You do the act long enough that it's no longer an act. It's a reality. They say successful entrepreneurs have one thing in common: they believe they can't fail. Belief is powerful. I'm actually reading this book called The Believing Brain about the power of belief over reality in people's thinking. It's pretty good. Written by a skeptic.

      Delete
    19. Sounds like an interesting read.

      Delete
    20. Your calling me a "misogynisty?" Your loosing it -
      my 4:07 calls you mr.

      Delete
    21. my 4:07 calls you mr.

      Exactly. Despite the fact that I have a female's name and a female's face as my avatar, you still assume I'm male.

      Delete
    22. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. God beat you to it, UKan.

      Delete
    23. Heh, Bible Anon. Haven't you heard by now? UKan is God, so your point in redundant.

      Delete
    24. medusa

      I'm aware that Medusa is female but your face doesn't
      appear female in all honesty it looks masculine -
      so your assumption is wrong; just like assuming that
      I'm misogynist. Narc

      Delete
    25. If you would like more reading material on this 'assumption', Raven already pointed out your misogynistic ways yesterday, in the forum.

      Delete
    26. Wow, what an evil post. Not interested!

      Delete
    27. Medusa I won't be dropping tracts off at UKan's house.

      Delete
    28. medusa

      You claiming that I am a misogynist

      Let me make it very clear to you; I like women,
      love women, proud of women, have empathy for women but, no, I don't like evil women. No one does.

      Delete
    29. Evil? Why? And how would you even know? You just said you weren't interested which means you didn't even read it.

      Delete
    30. You don't like evil women... but evil men are just fine and dandy with you, right? Misogynist. :)

      Delete
    31. Your 5:31 post was evil. Can't you read?

      Delete
    32. Listen, Misogynist... UKan singles out victims here all the time. Just like I'm singling you out right now. He's the king of that here. You just can't see that through that hazy film of infatuation, you're reading his posts through.

      Delete
    33. How is my comment 'evil'?

      Simply because something about you is not all godliness and light and sainthood? Misogyny isn't a value judgement, it's an observation. Since when are observations 'evil'?

      I'd say your "can't you read?" comment scores much higher on the Evil Scale.

      Delete
    34. medusa

      You were insinuating that I was lying and that i went
      to your forum and read your claims.

      Delete
    35. Eden

      What is this infatuation that you think you are describing? There is no infatuation with his words
      or mind. And in answer to your question evil is evil
      no matter who is wearing it.

      Delete
    36. No, I wasn't. Prey tell, how the hell did you come to that conclusion?

      Delete
    37. What is this infatuation that you think you are describing? There is no infatuation with his words
      or mind.


      This sums up your problem quite nicely. You are lacking in the self-aware department. Your infatuation is too all-pervasive for you to even see the forest for all the trees.

      Delete
    38. medusa

      DIDN'T GO TO YOUR FORUM, have no desire to - plain
      and simple. I'm disciplined.

      Delete
    39. You can take your crystal ball and.....

      Delete
    40. Since I never accused you of going to the forum in the first place, I'm just going to take your doth-protest-too-much reaction as an admission of guilt.

      After all, you're the one who first came up with the idea that you might be lying, like it was on the tip of your mind's tongue.

      Delete
    41. "One guy claiming to be a diagnosed psychopath murderer ex convict turned out to be a female rape victim with aspergers."

      Talking about yourself again, faggot?
      ....................../´¯/)
      ....................,/¯../
      .................../..../
      ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
      ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
      ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
      .........\.................'...../
      ..........''...\.......... _.·´
      ............\..............(
      ..............\.............\...

      Delete
    42. When I grow up, I wanna be UKan, lol

      Delete
    43. When I grow up, I want to be that giant finger. It'd make strangling people a snap.~

      Delete
    44. :) finger & mee

      Delete
  22. Capital post, M.E.!
    My contribution: There are two main types of people who's buttons are the most fun to push up in this club.
    Martyrs and Control Freaks.

    They hope I get what's coming to me, because I am the reality of an unjust world. Yet, I'm not the one crying all day long over what a shitty life I've had.

    ReplyDelete
  23. the world is just!
    and so am i
    i swear

    ReplyDelete
  24. Y know I'm sick and tired of all you assholes putting down people as stupid and weak to be upset of the past. You are so smug there's no way you could be sociopaths. A sociopath wouldn't give a fuck who was still connected to a shit self esteem from bad past.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, It's more like stating the fact.

      Delete
    2. I don't get your sentence. What do you refer to?

      Delete
    3. They dont care about what kind of self esteem one has, it's more like stating the fact...

      Delete
    4. this is true.

      Delete
  25. Replies
    1. Comes from the word "justice."

      Delete
    2. "only" . not germane to the end goal. Beside the point. Meaningless to the point.

      Delete
    3. The past is irrelveant. It is "just" a period of time and you're no longer there.

      Delete
    4. The world is not "just" and who gives a fuck.

      Delete
  26. Replies
    1. It's brocade needlepoint.

      Delete

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