Saturday, May 24, 2014

Sociopaths on television: Luther's Alice Morgan

There's a very fun "malignant narcissist" (seems more sociopathic) character in the BBC television series Luther. The titular character says this about her: "The way Alice sees it is this world is full of people that have "offended her, embarassed her, let her down, and those people deserve to be punished." The way she is portrayed is very well done -- her moments of quiet reflection, her inappropriate emotional responses, her boredom, her seeming contradictions, her complicated relationships, her pleasure in life -- all come off as being very three dimensionally real, and, apart from a few bad acts and the occasional moments of craziness, she is very high functioning.

Definitely worth watching.

Spoilers in the clip below, but a good example of the narcissistic/sociopathic traits in the character. Also a good example of how useful getting advice from a self-aware narcissist or sociopath can be:

69 comments:

  1. She is way too creepy and ugly looking to be a narcissist.

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  2. Narcissists are boring as fuck.

    P/S are much more fun.

    No offense adam.

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  3. TheNotableNigerianApril 12, 2011 at 4:06 AM

    Pink savages

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  4. Elitist's are removing narcissistic personality disorder from the next DSM, this is very bad. NPD is a legit pathological illness, the normal guys are going to suffer.

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  5. Why are they removing NPD from DSM? They must have simply rearranged its classification for improving cash collections.

    Thanks for the link ME. I don't watch TV but will streamline this now. It is indeed educational to watch a creepy bitch act so sure of her beauty and her brain.

    I was close friends for many years with two such bitches. My sister never understood why, it was the best real entertainment I could get. Not just watching them, but watching how people really fall for them. People are like flies that move toward the light and they often fail to differentiate between the sun/moon light and the bulb light.

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  6. I was diagnosed with NPD earlier this year because I referred myself to a psych for help in dealing with a large, unexpected career change. I’m not self-centered; I care about my wife and family more than myself, but in order to care for anyone else one must care for their self as well. I don’t have a grandiose sense of self, nor do I have any serious miscalculation of my own abilities for that matter. I know what I’m capable of, but I wouldn’t have known had I not pushed myself to those limitations in the first place. I’m going to keep pushing myself because I have a naturally driven desire to accomplish things and to increase my knowledge of the world around me, which are things that make my family and I happy. Isn’t that what this country is about…the pursuit of happiness? Isn’t that how this country was formed? Isn’t competition a normal human trait? Isn’t that capitalism? Isn’t that why we have been such a successful country? Narcissism is just a BS diagnosis that puts a label on people who are competitive, purpose-driven perfectionists. I am obviously one, but I realize that nothing is perfect; perfection is an opinion. So I’m basically being told that I have a personality disorder for having strong opinions and because of my competitive nature? The board is making a good decision in my opinion…thanks!

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    Replies
    1. You've illustrated some of the positive aspects of this personality but you haven't touched on the negative, i.e. being devoid of empathy, an unhealthy preoccupation with self, manipulative and exploitative of others, ect. Without the negative aspects, you would not have been diagnosed with NPD. Narcissists are deluded and believe nothing is their fault because they are always right. They will say "I'm not perfect" but then go on to list all their accomplishments in the same breath - there is no true humility. My BF is a narcissist, he complains that I have cellulite and started giving me "massages" to treat it. The massages are painful and leave me bruised and are an exercise in humiliation for me. Yet the last time we had an argument, he had the nerve to say "Didn't I just give you a lovely massage?" Completely delusional, he cannot acknowledge any wrong-doing on his aprt, he is always the selfless martyr. Anyway, he lacks any true self-awareness and I suspect you do to. You are no doubt telling yourself now "She's not an expert, she obviously knows nothing about what she's talking about" and discounting everything I have said. This is why Narcissists do not change. Ever. I pity you.

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    2. A malignant narcissist is merely a combination of a sociopath, a person with borderline personality disorder and a person with narcissism.

      Delete
  7. SW Welcoming CommiteeApril 12, 2011 at 6:07 AM

    Welcome to our motley crew. Get a name. You could do better than N. Stick around. Kick up your feet. Yet, eventually you just have to go back to work. Careful.

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  8. N,

    This country became great with true achievements following second world war. Ever since 70s though a new breed of self-pumped NPDs steadily over estimated themselves and are now still unaware of the shock wave that has already started hitting them.

    Do you follow global changes in super power repositioning? The true winners of US have already started investing elsewhere. Yu still sound like you are in 70s, before getting ass kicked by Japan, and now getting ass kicked by China and India.

    What will make a super power is a hybrid model, not a head stuck i the sand preaching capitalism. Wake up, and trust the diagnosis, you are overestimating yourself, your country, your achievements. Level first, then it will be easy to move on with realistic goals.

    If it all were rosy, you would not have been in the psychologist's office.

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  9. Oh, N, watch August. See someone that sounds just like you, someone who started a company with large dreams actually gets kicked out of the management team because of attitude while the company moves on to bigger and better things without him.

    Read a lot of NPD literature, watch Vaknin videos on youtube, as much as we don't like him here he speaks in a way YOU can relate to.

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  10. Is it possible to change humanity?

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  11. if u believe u can change yourself, the answer is yes. do u see yourself as part of humanity? what do u do for humanity?

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  12. You should only change what you don't like about yourself, lacking empathy is the best gift you could have.

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  13. :) adam, may i hug you?

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  14. adam, you should be the next Hairdresser's Husband. do you do bellydancing?

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  15. Sorry brah, but after reading the blog I have come to only one conclusion: You are not a sociopath. You are a run-of-the-mill aspie reject with delusions of grandeur.

    Just wanted you to know.

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  16. What do you mean hairdressers husband? And no you cannot hug me but I'll let you suck my dick.

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  17. Yet again words of wisdom from an anon... He never claimed to be a sociopath just a person with NPD, dumb ass. However I must say he does seem to be rather self aware. Much more self aware then I generally credit people with NPD capable of. In fact in many ways I could see this person being very persuasive. He has a form of double talk that masks his words while perfectly fitting the diagnosis. Such a false modesty. There is always a but after talking about a limitation. The N I knew wasn't nearly as verbally acrobatic. I've always thought of N's as the perfect figure heads. Even when they lack any real power most of them are so delusional that they will create the power in their own heads and will happily carry on with the idea that they have the power they lack.

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  18. I like Luther, mostly. Not a bad show. A few entertaining characters if nothing else.

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  19. Postmodern where can I watch it? For free.

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  20. @Kesu: I'd torrent it, myself, but it's probably up on YouTube, too.

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  21. Yeh, go for torrents Kesu. Most of the online sites you can watch it on usually have malware and shit.

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  22. lol postmodern plays it takes himself too seriously, you need balance. that is what it's all about, if you take yourself too seriously, you are bound for ridicule.

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  23. I found it online for free no malware no dl required. I am amazing as always.

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  24. I'm sitting on the sofa watching TV this morning, only me and a cat in the house, the cat jumps up on the sofa and sits next to me, I rub it behind the ear, then gently tap it with my hand on it's nose. I get rougher and rougher and soon enough I am full on slaping the cat in the face, the cat is stuck with me for an hour, every time it tried to put it's head down on the couch and sleep I'd slam my hand next to it's ear and it would volt up, it's head bobbed side to side as it was so tired, finally someone came in and I had to stop.

    Moral of the story: Abuse animals all you want, they can't tell on you haha.

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    Replies
    1. I desire for you the same. Monster. Idiot, That's what you are. Your lack of conscience is an aberration. You are a monster, Nothing less, nothing more. And your pretentious inteligence will let you to die in hands of somebody IN THE SAME WAY THAT YOU TORTURE ANIMALS. I never fail in my predictions. JUST WAIT.

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  25. Cassandra @8:05 said "if u believe u can change yourself, the answer is yes. do u see yourself as part of humanity?"

    Ask the Greeks . . . . via wiki

    -----The Greek mythological Cassandra's beauty caused Apollo (sun god and resident confidence man) to grant her the gift of prophecy. She spent a night at Apollo's temple, at which time the temple snakes licked her ears clean so that she was able to hear the future. However, when she did not return his love, Apollo placed a curse on her so that no one would ever believe her predictions. (temper, temper). She is a figure both of the epic tradition and of tragedy, where her combination of deep understanding and powerlessness exemplify the tragic condition of humankind.-----

    Sounds like a combination of some to the types who wander these halls. Kinda tells you tells you we have been debating and living the same issues through time.

    N, my advice to you. Try not to attach yourself too strongly to a DSM criteria. Learn and reach out yet remember balance arises from a "combination of deep understanding" of your strengths and by acknowledging the "powerlessness" in your blind spots.

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  26. Moral of the story . . . waste your time abusing animals and you are boring and pathetic.

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  27. You're boring and pathetic is my exciting and amazing, because I assume you are that soulfulpathetic wierdo.

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  28. Watching this show reminds me of a simple psychology fact. Cops tend to the departments which take on the crimes they would most likely commit.

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  29. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VizIrBQwA8w/SXa-qdmj1HI/AAAAAAAAGAU/4AiiwB6vB2o/s400/Chertoff.jpg

    http://www.minoanatlantis.com/pix/Dennis_Rader_1973_BTK_Killer.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9-uSugHobaI/Ra0mjdmDxPI/AAAAAAAAADM/oAXtg4CKKEM/s320/young_tony_blair1.jpg

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  30. N, fuck this country and any and all systems that aren't my own. Is that opinion strong enough for you? If so, you might belong here even if you don't want to. You can feel free to come into my sandbox and sample my toys but if you bring someone without a personality disorder then there'll be blood in the sand. So stop stressing over what you already know is bullshit.

    P-Mod, that was a rather prolonged vacation, wasn't it? I expect some sympathy.

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  31. the only thing i hate more than a woman is a nigger, even worse a gay nigger.

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  32. So bob you are a self hating homosexual who is racist and sexist. Congrats. No go back to the trailer park.

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  33. Billy Bawb GrissumApril 12, 2011 at 3:28 PM

    Ah 100% agree with bawb. Kesu kasa kesam what ever the fuck yaw gawd daym cawcksuckin sown bitch nayme be yall can suck mah diyack. Com dan ta mah traiyla park and iyll kick yaw fuckin faggot luvin ayass! USA fuck yeaaaa!

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  34. bob you forgot gay nigger female. Or are those ok?

    My audio is messed up so I didn't get to listen to today's video. How was it she displayed Malignant Narcissist versus... anything else remotely close to that?

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  35. From this clip it looks like an interesting show. I'd like to see more. - However, in this clip there's nothing that suggests Narcissism. I guess I'll have to take your word for it, M.E., though it could be one of the many cases of confusion about whether someone is Narcissistic or Psychopathic (or Sociopathic).

    Now I'd really like to watch it! I need some fresh and interesting TV. :)

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  36. Zhawq and Note the show is good. Alice is my favorite character already. She fits the description pretty well. However they made her a child prodigy even though it doesn't come up but once. I find it annoying still. I don't want to ruin anything for you an experience is always better when you come into it not knowing anything about it.

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  37. My favorite sociopath character of all time is Veronica from Better Off Ted. She's what you would be if you threw discretion to the wind.

    It's just as humorous as you think it would be.

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  38. @soulful

    yeah, you're good, very good, very well-read. the mantra you gave me worked very well at tonight's meeting.

    i chose the name Cassandra when I wrote to N because of the following aspect of Cassandra (later part of the wiki references you used):
    Corporate world
    Foreseeing potential future directions for a corporation or company is sometimes called ‘visioning’.[11] Yet achieving a clear, shared vision in an organization is often difficult due to a lack of commitment to the new vision by some individuals in the organization, because it does not match reality as they see it. Those who support the new vision are termed ‘Cassandras’ – able to see what is going to happen, but not believed.[11] Sometimes the name Cassandra is applied to those who can predict rises, falls, and particularly crashes on the global stock market, as happened with Warren Buffett, who repeatedly warned that the 1990s stock market surge was a bubble, attracting to him the title of 'Wall Street Cassandra'.[1

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  39. This exquisite corporate model is then shaken by the arise of "Black Swans" such as Facebook. And the whole game changes. The tidal wave creates the new vision. Then the corporate control factor wants to cash in on the wave.

    You are welcome for the mantra,
    my pleasure. ;-)

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  40. A sociopath works like a "Black Swan." Like a transformational monkey wrench the the fine tuned machinery of the human psyche. You just don't see it coming. The outliers and the outlaws. Just ask Alice.

    For those bloggers who want to play more . . .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory

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  41. good one, black swan, extreme innovation type event, low frequency of occurence.

    here is another one: blue ocean strategy... making the competition irrelevant and creating uncontested market space:

    www.blueoceanstrategy.com

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  42. I'm watching as we speak:

    Empires: The Medici Family.

    Medici daddy says:
    don't appear in public eye, hide your riches, control politicians.

    A few such families controlling top governments today.

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  43. There are examples of the Cassandra metaphor in medical science...

    in relation to Asperger’s Disorder (a 'Cassandra Syndrome' is sometimes said to arise when partners or family members of the Asperger individual seek help but are disbelieved,

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  44. I just watched Black Swan last night.

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  45. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  46. Medusa - What did you think of her ballerina angst?

    BTW - Love Symphony #3

    Thank you, beautiful snake haired one.

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  47. Cassandra,
    I wish belief is as powerful as you believe.

    Adam,
    Is it really worth it? Having to lie to everyone you know. Pretending to have feelings that you don't have because when ever someone finds out about what you are they leave. Learning emotions as a second language. Having to think about decisions that comes to other people naturally. Having the power to get mates but not the power to make them happy. Feeling bored most of the time.

    Would having empathy cure the boredom? I imagine if I am preoccupied with other people's feelings, I would be less bored.

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  48. I'm not a fan of that wiki link you shared. As soon as I see an author making a claim to a new way at looking things, and attaching September 11th, the Internet and WW1 as his prime examples, I can't help but role my eyes, especially at such a simple concept. Did it really need to be fleshed out, especially into a book? I think that is really sad (less sad than people buying that crap).

    Way to re-invent 'Historical Change'. Really. *golf clap*

    Wet, belief, I dunno. But confidence... confidence is supremely important. Confidence will make people do all sorts of shit they never would do under other circumstances. If you can get someone confident, the possibilities of what they're open to is only limited by their, or your, imagination.

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  49. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  50. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  51. Soulful...

    It was pretty personal, actually.

    My first love was ballet. It's all I thought about when I was young, I wanted to grow up to be a ballerina so bad, and was trained in it for many years. Ballet still gets to me on a very deep level.

    It's odd, because I have a severe aversion to feet, but when I see a foot in a pointe shoe, on relevé, it's like, orgasm time for me.

    I do relate quite a bit to the main character. My white and my black devils fight 24 hours a day, on many metaphorical and not-so-metaphorical levels, both striving for God (or Satan, doesn't matter) status, for Perfection.

    And after I attain that, it will be okay to die.

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  52. I seriously couldn't get past her overbite. Was she supposed to be the smart and scary character?

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  53. Note, I would love to see you and the Lebanese Nassim Taleb in a debate in a cafe. He is quite a character, as are you. Adam can make you two his soy milk lattes.

    Medusa, The battle of the two wolves, dark and light. A worthy endeavor.

    Truth, Beauty, Goodness= Perfectionism, Mastery, Freedom.

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  54. Soulful, wake up to reality, I don't make people anything, they do the chores. Don't you dare undermine me, you pathetic worm, I'll mow you down, I'm going to be a huge success some day, and when that happens I'm coming for all you worms, or as Gaddafi calls the likes of you "rats"

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  55. Preoccupation with fantasies of limitless power/wealth?

    Check.

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  56. My favorite TV narc is the Jane Krackowski character on '30 Rock'

    She can't handle it that her stalker quit on her.

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  57. Ballet dancers spend hours upon hours upon hours in the mirror because they have to.

    Ahem

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  58. Alice is my dream girl. I could grow old with someone like her.. Unless of course she decided otherwise (growing old)- but that would be a lovely incentive to stay vital. No Joke- I am in lust/Love with Alice. I wonder if there are any real Alices out there, or whether someone like her is only possible in fiction

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  59. Actually- TV is having a love affair with sociopathic leads and usually well-intended ones. has there been a list compiled of all of them?
    Alice (Luther)
    Sherlock (Sherlock)
    Reddington (Blacklist)
    HAnnibal (Hannibal)
    Stella Gibson (The Fall)

    These are my favorites-
    It seems like Hollywood is reading this blog sometimes.

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  60. I've actually known how to use a computer for a little over a year.
    I had no reason to believe I would ever have one, for a variety of
    reasons, too numerious to go into.
    When I grew up T.V. was the all encompassing media. It was just as
    praised and reviled as the internet, and just as powerful in shaping
    opinions.
    Most absorption of information involves a suspension of disbelief,
    anotherwords "magical thinking." This also entails believing
    fantastic unsubstaniated claims for advertised products. Wishful &
    magical thinking: Something for nothing.
    I was a spoiled, obese, lonely child. My "set-point" was 50lbs
    overweight. I was raised on American T.V.
    I got tired of the hostile treatment I recieved in American public
    schools. "I know what I'll do, I said to myself. I'll lose this spare
    tire, slim down like my favorite action/adventure T.V. stars and
    poof, my problems will all go away! Everybody loves________."
    For an 11 year old it was HARD WORK. So-I lost the weight, the
    family moved from V.A. (Which was "tolorable," to Brooklyn N.Y.
    I hadn't had the oppertunity to buy proper fitting clothes.
    I played a game of "catch" with my brother in the driveway of our
    new house. I looked so comical to the neighbour children that they
    mercilessly attacked my appearence. T.V. was wrong!
    I withdrew to my bedroom for the next 40 years and, guess what?
    Watched more T.V.

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  61. are all femme fatale alfa wommen?

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  62. Some TV displays
    Mordo crosswords solutions search the definition and find out all the possible answers mordo crossword information should pass freely
    Some TV displays comment

    ReplyDelete
  63. anyway back to alice - babe.

    ReplyDelete
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  65. Alice Morgan is my best character ever. Attractive, Brains, evil and good, confident and dialogue (wow, very articulate with her words and word play is good). A fan anyway.

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