Thursday, October 11, 2012

Finding joy beyond self

One of my readers suggested that the exchange between Tinkerbelle and Daniel Birdick here should get its own post. I agree. The thing I particularly like about this exchange is Birdick's description of finding joy and meaning. It's in particular conceptions of self as "good" or even "bad" or anything in particular. It's in other, external things. Sometimes the source happens to be oneself, but it's not for the sake of "being" something, but the sake of having done or experienced something -- having made someone laugh so hard they choke, as opposed to "being hilarious." Maybe it's not quite "selfless," but for being so self-involved, the sociopath happens to enjoy a lot of things that have nothing to do with him or how he feels about himself.

Here it is, starting with Daniel Birdick:


This post stayed with me because I believe it encapsulates one of the “sociopath’s” defining characteristics: the inability to believe in self. “Normal’s” have a more or less static sense of self. This sense of self includes but is not limited to beliefs about morality, politics, religion, and of course sexuality and gender. “Sociopaths”, not so much. My theory is that “sociopaths” are unable to believe the story the left hemisphere of the brain constantly spins about who and what the self is the way “normals” do. The aware “sociopath” knows he/she is wearing a mask. The “normals” believe the mask they wear is who they really are. The aware “sociopath” has a better chance of understanding humanity’s true nature as a result of his/her inability to believe while “normals” live and die by the cobweb of illusion their brains ceaselessly spin about the self. Metaphorically speaking, the aware and intelligent “socio/psychopath” is the last of mankind’s prophets. Their very existence serves as a living testimony to the nihilistic truth of the universe. 

Mark Twain said it well, (if a little melodramatically): “you are but a thought -- a vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn among the empty eternities!"

Tinkerbelle:

Mr Birdick....what make's you happy? If sociopaths believe in nothingness and have no sense of self....what do you actually enjoy in life except "ruining" those around you. I did think that your post had a point, i understood your perspective, i really did, however what is there to look forward to in life if the left side of the brains hemisphere doesn't constantly spin a sense of self? Is life pointless?, You have me thinking now.

Daniel Birdick:


Hello Tinkerbelle.

What makes me happy? Jamaica Delights. Watching the sun rise over the ocean. The rich green color of freshly cut grass. Good music. A well delivered punch line. Cheesecake. Brilliant acting. A perfectly cooked T-bone steak. An expertly crafted movie, one where all the elements that go into great filmmaking are there on the screen. Watching my little niece run happily toward me. Devising effective stratagems to deal with the ceaseless power game that passes for “human adulthood”. I could go on and on, but you get the point. I enjoy many of the kinds of things I suspect you enjoy. I just don’t need to indulge in just so stories, like “Daniel is a republican, democrat, straight, gay, bi, would never kill, hates lying, and so on” to experience that enjoyment.

Is life pointless? Yeah, it is. Meaning and purpose are nothing more than products of the human consciousness, which is itself prone to self deception and delusion. (Witness the spectacle of billions of people all over the globe prostrating themselves before their invisible friends for instance.) Fortunately, it isn’t necessary to believe in meaning, purpose, morality or “selfhood” to enjoy the exchange of ideas or take delight in the taste of ice cream on a hot summer day or have great sex.

This may very well be one of the main things that bother “normals” about “sociopaths”. We at least have the potential to enjoy many of the things they enjoy without the baggage of having to negotiate with an inborn conscience. This fact may gall them because it makes a mockery of all their precious beliefs about morality and meaning.


Tinkerbelle:


If life really is pointless we all may as well lay down and die this very second. Why waste one's time? I've often pondered the "point". Sociopaths don't offend me with their views, people are who they are. Besides the topic is a damn good juicy debate!
I just think to myself that its ashame sometimes thats all (not in a condescending manner)...I can only imagine sociopathy to be like only ever watching black and white film's. Beautiful no doubt, yet two tone, empathy is like experiencing a film in burts of technicolour. Creativity stems from emotion. 

Maybe sociopathy misses the "point". Then again maybe not?...who truely knows?


Daniel Birdick:


Hi Tinkerbelle. You're right. These kinds of discussions are fascinating. It gives me an opportunity to exercise my mental muscles. Thanks for being my "spotter", so to speak. ;-) 

Now to address your comments-

Tinkerbelle said: “If life really is pointless we all may as well lay down and die this very second.” 

Is that true? Are you certain that this must be the inevitable outcome of discovering that life is meaningless? That would be akin to a 12 year old deciding that she’s never going to celebrate Christmas again after finding out that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. That would be a valid option, like any other, but not a necessary one. 

“Why waste one's time?” 

Why not? Besides, it’s only a waste if you define it as such. You have far greater power to define your personal experience of life than you know.

“I can only imagine sociopathy to be like only ever watching black and white film's. Beautiful no doubt, yet two tone, empathy is like experiencing a film in burts of technicolour. Creativity stems from emotion.”

You could be right. Even if you are right, even if “normals” greater facility for empathy is makes their experience of life richer, that doesn’t make it any truer and that’s my “point”. Emotions are no more an indicator of truth than speaking in tongues is an indicator that god exists. Being honest with myself is my highest value. Truth is what matters to me, not pretty lies. Even if I wanted to believe the fairytales others guide their lives by, I’ve discovered that I am incapable of it. Take empathy for example. Empathy literally means to vicariously experience the feelings of others. Your brain calculates what it might be like to feel what someone else is feeling and creates that experience within you. The literal experience of empathy is an evolutionary adaptation which I believe stems from the human drive to bond with other humans. But here’s the rub. You can’t really experience another person’s subjective state. You can only ever experience yourself and your own projections. So in a sense, empathy is as deceptive as morality is. Which again, is my point. The aware “sociopath” doesn’t miss the point because there isn’t one to miss.

128 comments:

  1. That was meeeeeeee : )

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    1. HA! I just got the accompanying image also.

      I fucking love this site.

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    2. The graphic gives a whole new meaning to choking the chicken.

      Thanks for the lulz M.E and nice article. I really do get a lot more understanding from a sociopath's perspective from reading it.

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    3. I think you are hooked, Mindless Pleasures.

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    4. Haha Anonymous. How could I not be hooked - wait until you see Friday's post ; )

      Note: I'm writing this Friday morning (approx 8:25am) from London, England and subsequently the times displayed with this message are not synchronised.

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  2. I look to the Bible for my imponderables.

    One indication of God's being the author of the Bible is that the Bible makes man look bad, not good. Many of the other religions exalt man. The Bible has man in bas relief, with all his warts, left out for all to see.

    That being said, what does the Bible have to say about the nature of man? Man has a part of him that is singularly selfish and horribly dark.

    This part was the reason for all that ensued from man's disobedience to the last page. Man was too horrid to ever find God or be in God's presence.

    Man is a pimple on God's ass, one could say, if one were being irreverent.

    Man deserves nothing, but God gave it all to man, from pure love.

    That is the unasked for Bible lesson for today :D

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    1. I want so badly to refute every word written here, but I predict with absolute certainty that it would be utterly pointless.

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    2. Haven dear
      The Bible holds up to any and all scrutiny. Go fer' it :D

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    3. You're a troll. If not, go away please.

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  3. Original, original Theme for Daniel Birdick

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    1. A-well-a, everybody's heard about the bird
      Bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word
      A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, the bird is the word
      A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, well, the bird is the word

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  4. I have come here when I had no place to go for over a year and you have put up with me.
    I just need to talk to you.
    My life has been a total failure. I gave up my power as a teen. From then on, I have been everyone's wimp. I lost my son. Everything failed and I am a nothing, a no one, with no power, no anything.

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    1. Mindless PleasuresOctober 11, 2012 at 6:12 AM

      Monica, Sweetheart

      I'm genuinely sorry about your son. That breaks my heart. There is nothing I can say that could try comprehend how much suffering and hurt you have and will continue to endure.

      But endure you must.

      C'mon Sweetheart - you know you can be stronger than this. There are many other things that you have to be thankful for. As trivial & trite as that may sound considering the circumstances.

      You cant just punk out on us now. I'm sure that's not what your son would want for your life.

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    2. You said the other day the numb was wearing off finally. Is that what's going on, Monica?

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    3. Thank you MP <3
      Yes, I think the numb is wearing off.

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    4. Monica didn't have a son that died, and she was never molested by her mother. She's already admitted in the past that she lied about those things for sympathy.

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    5. Monica, is this ^ true?

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    6. Of course, it is true. I am going to ignore TNP and anyone like him because it sucks someone would say that.

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    7. Ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow
      Papa-ooma-mow-mow, ooma-mow-mow
      Well, don't you know about the bird
      Well, everybody knows that the bird is the word
      A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word
      Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow

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  5. "The "normals," believe the mask they wear is who they really are."

    Untrue. I know when I put on the mask and I learn every day about myself. I work very hard not to wear a mask and I do this by living in the present.

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  6. Everyone wears a mask and we don't particularly believe we are the mask we're wearing. We all have our faces covered hiding our insecurities, weaknesses and secrets that we wouldn't want the rest of the world to know. We all behave a certain way at work, and another way at home, and another way with friends. Sociopaths are different in that way because their whole life is a lie. They change their beliefs, their attitude, their hobbies, their opinions just to suit the person or group they have in front of them, but I wouldn't call it a mask. It's just the way they are, a mirror.

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    1. No one, other than myself knows when I put on a mask or "why" I wear it.

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    2. You're right about the masks at work, social functions etx. But that's where love comes in. We are our true selves with those we love and love us. You know that part of the relationship where both peoples masks come off (only slightly for the socio) and the socio gets bored ? Well the normals find it endearing, courages, and love the other person even more for it.

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  7. I'd say you have a better chance to understand than 98% of people but there is around 2% that can understand in a level that a psychopath never will since they lack a part of their "senses", it is somewhat like being blind. 98% of people are in a fog, 2% know they are and are able to get out, psychopaths are in less fog but still are and can't get out.

    Not that I wish to explain. :D

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    1. Why do sociopaths change their beliefs, attitudes, their hobbies, their beliefs, their opinions to suit the person or group they are with?

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    2. Because they don't have an identity on their own. It's not a concious thing they do. That's why people love sociopaths, people love people that are like them. Kids mirror and manipulate others too. The sociopath never stopped.

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    3. Makes sense........thanks

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    4. what is the fog, anonymous?

      i'm just reading osho - crazy stuff. osho advocates a no mind philosophy, which i guess includes "no self". sociopathy seems to me all mind but no self... free mind?

      there are public masks and private masks. i imagine too the truly foggy they are one and the same. the sociopaths seem aware of the public masks and able to manipulate them. but to be aware of the private masks - that in a way you are your own puppet - you'd have to be enlightened wouldn't you?

      i don't believe empathy is a precondition for attaining enlightenment. only mind is.

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    5. This is an interesting question:

      "Why do sociopaths change their beliefs, attitudes, their hobbies, their beliefs, their opinions to suit the person or group they are with?"

      with Anon's answer: "Because they don't have an identity on their own. It's not a conscious thing they do.

      It seems like you're missing a key point that mirroring someone else isn't to gain a sense of identity so much as it is to gain an actual 'something' from the person they /seducing/.

      Who's to say that Sociopaths don't have their own identity when they're alone and not trying to get something from other people.


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    6. but you have those people who become what you are or the group is, to be accepted.

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    7. Who's to say that Sociopaths don't have their own identity when they're alone and not trying to get something from other people.

      They don't know who they are if they're not mirroring anyone. Mirroring isn't a concious thing they do, and it certainly isn't just something they use to seduce people. It's a way of life to them. Their whole life is a facade.

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    8. Is this true?

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    9. anonymous, it all hinges on what you mean by "knowing who you are". who are any of us? if you drop profession, gender, age, family relationships, friendships, financial worth, and possessions, who are you? how are you different from anyone else? if you take everything away, you're left with just this idea of "self", that will eventually fade without external support.

      we all create a sense of self from "the stuff". empaths usually have one, that they identify with completely, and is generally the source of their misery. sociopaths have many, that they change like socks - and seem less miserable for it? perhaps empathy works like a kind of glue that makes it harder to pull the mask off?

      maybe therapy should include teaching people to detach from the "self"?

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    10. "Why do sociopaths change their beliefs, attitudes, their hobbies, their beliefs, their opinions to suit the person or group they are with?"
      They don't unless they believe it is to their advantage or out of habit.

      "i don't believe empathy is a precondition for attaining enlightenment. only mind is."
      No, there are very crazy people that have a mind :D. What I was meaning is knowing humans, a person born deaf won't "know" sound but can even speak and make great music with practice and learning the concepts behind them.

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    11. Not that psychopaths aren't humans or average humans can understand themselves, most people are very oblivious to how their mind work :D.

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    12. And will forever be.

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  8. great post. whatever happened to DB? :)

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    1. Mindless PleasuresOctober 11, 2012 at 8:59 AM

      I'm curious to find that out also. Would anyone know?

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    2. he probably realized how pointless all of this searching and meaning is, or came to a satisfying conclusion, and moved on with his life. He graduated with honors from the university of Soshopathland, and has started his career of enlightenment.

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  9. tinkerbelle isn't that dog from paris "that's hot" hilton
    so you are a bitch?

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  10. I have been hanging around a bit (a SW empath) and have come to the conclusion that sociopaths might have as much "Self" we empaths claim to- but just can't feel it. IT is as if a sense of Self depends on having empathy. A Self-Empathy if you will. What we empaths would call "facets to our personality" or "wearing different hats" you would call Masks. For example, someone who defines them self as conservative will go through great lengths to get the conservative mask right. This is not different between socios and empaths except that sociopaths know its a mask. Power games are played out by empaths by negotiating a power structure through acceptance or rejection of the collectively determined correct mask. They pretend to embody the mask which best serves their desires and calms their fears. Some empaths might only feel comfortable with one or two main masks and they wear them so much they feel real eventually. But wonder what about a "self" do sociopaths think they are missing? Don't sociopaths have definite likes and dislikes? that's self- A particular style or appearance? that's self. A connection to a nationality, culture, subculture? That's self. Being conscious of their age? Looks? self self. Maybe its just the feeling- A Blind person might not be able to discern how beautiful their eyes are, but that doesn't mean they don't have beautiful eyes.

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    1. i'm empath with a flexible sense of self. no mask means dropping everything, including feelings/thoughts about age, looks.. all the stuff that matters when you relate to the world externally. the masks never feel real, just like clothes never feel like skin, though you can get very comfortable in them. there is no point to wearing masks when you're alone, and being mask free is stopping the "spinning" of the self as DB out it...

      The aware “sociopath” has a better chance of understanding humanity’s true nature as a result of his/her inability to believe while “normals” live and die by the cobweb of illusion their brains ceaselessly spin about the self.

      with some people, it's like they can't accept anything other than the mask they're expecting. there's like this lack of reaction to just you, and a kind of pull...the expectation. in which case i may oblige, if i'm feeling social or work demands it. :)

      it's just a tool.

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    2. ZOe how come you are an empath with flexible self ?? How did you find that out? Can you please describe for me the difference between the way you experience life and the way db does?

      I have read this exchange between tinkerbelle and him and I honestly relate to him. The post makes me feel good and I think it is because I do not relax enough into enjoying what I sincerely do enjoy because I am seeing all the selves and deciding which to pay attention to. Are you like that? (i know it is a borderline thing, but I just wanted to know. Because I also find great pleasure in changing so I can fit into other worlds.)

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    3. hey anon, i haven't thought about it in a while. i posted a bit about it here in early 2010, i think.

      when i was younger i sort of went about instinctively becoming whoever i ran into, with this underlying thought in my head going "is this me? is this me? is this me?" it felt natural to me to "blend and see".

      do all sociopaths really have a flexible sense of self, or are they just motivated to get what they want with whatever tools they have? a charmer will find someone to charm, but does that mean he or she can charm anyone?

      i'll re-read DB's comments and post more later. i relate to his comments too.

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    4. okay, re-read DB....

      Is life pointless? Yeah, it is. Meaning and purpose are nothing more than products of the human consciousness, which is itself prone to self deception and delusion. (Witness the spectacle of billions of people all over the globe prostrating themselves before their invisible friends for instance.) Fortunately, it isn’t necessary to believe in meaning, purpose, morality or “selfhood” to enjoy the exchange of ideas or take delight in the taste of ice cream on a hot summer day or have great sex.

      agree with it pretty much, but i wouldn't say life is pointless. the mind manipulates concepts and calls it reality. pointlessness is just another concept. i don't believe in a mechanistic universe, but that consciousness created the universe... from what i remember DB was a mechanist.

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    5. You can’t really experience another person’s subjective state. You can only ever experience yourself and your own projections. So in a sense, empathy is as deceptive as morality is. Which again, is my point. The aware “sociopath” doesn’t miss the point because there isn’t one to miss.

      empathy isn't actually experiencing another person's state. it's all about projecting, using your intellect and feelings, then disconnecting personally and acting for the other. DB misses the point here that using your own experiences and projections can be a very effective way to assess what is going on in someone else's head. something sociopaths are good at! while the empath might rely more on experience and resulting feelings, the sociopath might use observation more.

      empathy is only deceptive to the empath who believes they are feeling what the other is feeling, or is overwhelmed by the feelings that come from projecting.

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    6. having said that, the phenomenon of "intermingled quantum states" gives some support to the possibility of psychic things

      and observer effect blows away the mechanistic universe.

      if there are any mechanists here i would love to hear from you :)

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    7. ZOe how come you are an empath with flexible self ?? How did you find that out?

      i would bring very different people together in social situations and watch them socialize (or not). and unlike me, they stayed the same.

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    8. The post makes me feel good and I think it is because I do not relax enough into enjoying what I sincerely do enjoy because I am seeing all the selves and deciding which to pay attention to. Are you like that? (i know it is a borderline thing, but I just wanted to know. Because I also find great pleasure in changing so I can fit into other worlds.)

      i would (and still do) get totally absorbed into whatever situation i was in or whoever i was with. no other selves left to pay attention to. it's not masks as much as morphing.

      having said that, if i get bored my mind wanders. i have to multi-task. thinking linearly and focusing on one thing only is difficult for me. a friend observed i seem distracted at times. that happens when i'm bored and have to stay put... my mind needs something to do!

      the whole selves thing is misleading. the masks are ways to interact/communicate for some (for me), ways to hide for others, or a way to create a sense of self. i care about my appearance, and may be a bit narcissistic even (or girly depending on how you look at it), but have never derived my sense of self from it. so actually to completely identify with a career (as an example), and have no sense of existing outside of it, how someone can do that mystifies me.

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    9. i mean i still don't really truly believe people can do that.

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    10. Thanks for sharing Zoe. That was a very interesting addition to the post.

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    11. It was, really.
      "i would bring very different people together in social situations and watch them socialize (or not). and unlike me, they stayed the same."

      I can identify with this very much. I think at some point I thought it was impolite or something NOT to change.

      But also, I think it had to do with who sets the tone of the occasion. i do not want to be a follower but it happens. I have to keep remembering not to morph too much in some situations.

      I don't want to do any of this anymore unless I have a clear motive. I don't like coming away feeling like I have to look in my mirror when I get home to adjust back.

      I always admire those who are consistently, and reliably their self. THey don't seem to care about whether they blend in or not.

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  11. I'm in a constant state of change. I have very few, what I would consider core parts of me, and I wouldn't call them convictions of beliefs. Just gut reactions, no more voluntary than gagging at the smell of carion.

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    1. what drives the change, tnp?

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    2. The smell of carion, for one.

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  12. "If life really is pointless we all may as well lay down and die this very second. Why waste one's time?"

    Laying down and dying is the principal definition of wasting one's time. You just wasted every potential bit of time you had.

    Life is pointless on a scale beyond self. At the self level you get to assign value as you see fit.

    There are plenty of constructs that attempt to indoctrinate you as well. I don't mean just the blatant ones like religion or the facade we call politics. Just being exposed to others is a form of indoctrination.

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    1. also, laying down and dying isn't a waste of time if that's what you really want to do

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  13. I find it astounding that people waste so much time trying to assign value to our existence as if it was anything more than an accident. It's ego at it's highest.

    I agree with you MHM that value is assigned on a personal and individual basis.

    That we aren't part of some "grand design" doesn't make life less meaningful. It is what it is. With as much value as we put into it.

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    1. i feel like ia have the same (flexable)self as a borderline but i like it

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    2. Right now I'm in a state of transition. Much more comfortable doing what I want to do because I want to do it. Not because of what I need from someone else.

      Having that kind of flexibility is adaptive. More often then not, when I was "someone else" I was happier too. And it's not as if it was a complete change. It's bits and pieces of one thing added to what is already there to make the current situation work.

      It's flexible, not something entirely new.


      And in retrospect it's a great way to figure out the things I want to internalize permanently. And the things I don't.

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    3. anon 1239, what do you like about it? and what kind of personality do you have?

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  14. MONICA!!!!m Iam back here!!!! Iam home.......


    Something really bad happened to me while I was drinking........ Lets just say for now I had #7 2mg xanax, 110mg's of methadone, and 25-30 shots of gin (i finished the whole bottle in 2 hours)......


    I will post the story but I wanted to let everybody know Iam alive, mentally healthy (as richie the uber empath can be anyway lol) and back home.....

    I love you Monica and I love you SW.......

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  15. Oh and I got "detained" by the police and "Baker Acted" in Florida which is where they involutaryily plae you in a psychiatric hospital for 72 hours because you are a danger to yourself or others.........

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  16. Here is what they did to me (or I did to myself) wikipedia style explained http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Mental_Health_Act

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    1. Why are you being mean to me haven? Iam fucking ashamed...... My brother is here from californbia visiting and only came for a week and is leaving tommorow..... Do you want me to cry anymore than I already have? Cause Iam tearing up again right now.......

      Please be nice to me............

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    2. Rich, please. Remember where you are.

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    3. "If life really is pointless we all may as well lay down and die this very second. Why waste one's time?" said Tink.
      Rich, are you sure you're not a borderline? You remind me very much of the girl who hung herself in "Girl, Interrupted." Get a grip or get off. I know you've got something worth sharing in there. Give it to Monica.

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    4. Not gonna lie Rich, I kind of thought you were Borderline there too.


      You're wrong about the chick that hung herself from Girl, Interrupted though. She wasn't Borderline. She was a victim of incestuous abuse.

      Regardless, chill out Rich. You're alive. Free, and apparently in tact. As long as you have that, things aren't completely lost.

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    5. Okay, maybe I overeacted, Iam sorry..... I facebooked Monica and Iam anxiously awaiting her response.......

      If I am Borderline I have never been diagnosed........ Arent you a borderline personality Haven?

      What is it like? Do you have alot of anxiety? I do. If I was borderline I wouldnt b ashamed and would admit it, but I have never been diagnosed with it before.....

      My psychiatric diagonsis was/is depression, panic disorder, and agoraphobia....... Those are the only things I have been psychiatrically diagnosed with and at one point I saw a shrink for over 3 years....... But I dont know if that means much because he was only treating me for Panic disorder/Agopraphobia.........

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    6. Okay..... Iam gpoing to share the story...... This may be long and I will probably also copy and paste it and post it tommorow in case monica dosent see it......


      Iam going to write it all right now..... Please bear with me and wait while I write it..........

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    7. Yes, I'm Borderline. What's it like? It's an dysfunctional emotional roller coaster. Originally I was only diagnosed Major Depressive with a General Anxiety Disorder (with eating disorders). That wasn't completely wrong, but it wasn't completely right either. Obviously.

      If you're really curious, go read my blog. Pick your topics, they're all labelled down the right side. I honestly wouldn't even know where to begin explaining it at this point.

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    9. Okay, so I wasnt having such a great day on tuesday (or wednesday my mind is jumbled from lack of sleep, but ill tell the story)............. During the day at about 1 PM I called my mother and asked her where she kept my weeks supply of xanax because for some reason (I dont remember) I was having a bad day, and I had already had one xanax (they are 2mgs each) and left in my stash was 5, and I also had one that I had in my room loose....... So I took all the xanax...... I wasnt quite feeling as "high" as I wanted.... Because this was after I left the methadone clinic, I go there every morning and take 110 mg's of methadone. Anyway, I wasnt feeling the buzz I wanted, so I grabbed a full liter bottle of Gin which is 80 proff (40% alcohol) and started making "Pickletinis" like a madman, (a pickletini is just a dirty martini but instead of olive brine you use the pickle brine, it kills the taste of the alcohol alot better so it helps me drink it faster) so my martini glass is a regular cocktail glass that holds 4.5 oz's of liqour in it......... I would drink one every 10 mins, but Iam a big guy Iam 6'3 255 pounds......

      Anyway, 2 hours goes by and somehow my neighbor saw me outside throwing up....... So they called a crisis hotline on their cell phone and handed it to me (I dont remember anything after this so now iam going by what I was told).... My neighbor said they took me inside of their house and kept me on the phone with the woman from the suicide hotline and I told her honestly what I took, which was the liter of gin in 2 hours, my methadone, and my 7 xanax bars........

      Apparently my neighbor and I were passing the phone back and forth to the lady from the suicide hotline for 2 hours....... My neighbor told me in that two hour period I lost my ability to walk and was laying on their bathroom floor, they told me I threw up 4 times in the 2 hour period that we were on the crisis hotline passing their cell phone back and forth while they were trying to nurse me to sobriety....... So eventually they told them the address where we were at, and two police officers came, they supposedly took me outside of the house and asked me what was going on, and since I was so loose I told them the entire truth of all the drugs/alcohol I consumed....... So they than put me in handcuffs and drove me to the nearest hospital.........

      (part one of 2)

      Delete
    10. (part 2 of 2)

      At the hospital (Mind you now this is about 2 and a half or three hours after I had finished drinking, plus the time it took for the nurses/doctor to see me....) So they took my blood and they said my blood alcohol level 2 and a half or three hours after drinking was a 0.298 (It is on the police report) and they said I was so drunk that they couldnt take me to the psychiatric hospital until my blood level of alcohol was down to a 0.150 (basically half of the level it was when I arrived)...... Than the staff of the hospital apparently started lecturing me, and I didnt take kindly to that, so I told them to go fuck themselves, and if they got near me I woul rip the IV out of my arm so they couldnt give me anymore saline solution or whatever it is they give you to sober up......) at that point the police were gone because I was calm and non combative, well the hospital called the police again and this time 3 police officers showed up........

      2 of them were the ones that brought me, and the other was just a back up....... So the backup officer threathered to take me to jail...... and I said "For what, I havent done anything but be intoxicated in public, go ahead and arrest me because the bond/bail to get out of jail for public intoxication where i live is only $25 dollars (yes twenty five dollars) than the cop started being rude and combatitive with me, he got up in my face and told me to punch him in the face....... and I said " I have no reason to punch you in the face, so why would I?" and he responded with saying "Because if I take you to jail I dont want you to be there for something petty, I really wanna bust your ass, and hit you with a felony battery on a law enforcement officer charge" at that point I said "Punch me in the face motherfucker, than Ill punch you back and you can take me, I dont start fights, I finish them" then he got a little more angry because he saw he couldnt get me to be violent with him, so he and his 2 buddies sat there and we all bullshitted until my blood alcohol level got down and they took me in another ambulance to a psych ward at a different hospital 45 mins away..........

      I got there and was informed I was "Baker Acted" (Which the link above explains) and was going to be held for 72 hours for observation by doctors, psychiatrists, and nurses, at that point I was sober enough to start remembering things, walking around, and talking and comprending what just had happened.......

      Well, I made friends with almost all of the patients, stayed for a little over 50 hours, was observed by docs, shrinks, and nurses, they wouldnt give me my xanax or any benzodiazepines or anti-seizure meds........ THANK GOD they did let me take my 110mg's of methadone on schedule the two days I was there or I woulda still been there from flipping out from being so dopesick.......

      Some of the patients were schizophrenic, walking around aimlslly and waving their arms in the air, telling me they are rocking babies in their hand, that they have a hoola hoop around them, that she was driving a school bus while talking to the white Michael Jackson (the singer), one guy was flipping out cause he was so dopesick and he kept flippping out so they denied him all his meds and gave him nothing the entire time he was there (I didnt bother anybody so they gave me my meds)......

      I saw the shrink today, saw a social worker, then they let me out, my mom came and got me, took me home, and I came straight to SW to talk to you guys and gals because you are my only "friends" and people I know......

      If you have any more questions or wanna know more to the story, just ask...... Iam here to answer.............

      Delete
    11. You are trying to destroy yourself. I think it is a deep death wish that has to be broken. It is the root of all this imho

      I think it stems from pure rejection from your father, which is fueling it.

      Delete
    12. because for some reason (I dont remember) I was having a bad day

      What was going on that pushed you to this, Rich? Does it have anything to do with the way your brother makes you feel?

      Delete
    13. My dearest Monica, I think I may have that deep rooted death wish, but I hate my father as a person, so I dont think it is specifically from him, but maybe it is...... I dont know honestly......

      I dont think iam going to drink anymore, Iam going to start weaning off the xanax until I am off of it, and I plan to stay on methadone........


      Also, I HAVENT SMOKED WEED FOR 12 days!!!!!! Iam almost half way to my system being clean........... I did it cause I want to work! I wanna get a job finally and be productive...... I wanna change alot........

      Delete
    14. Anon @ 7:48 no not at all, I love my brother to death, I think I was just anxious and depressed and I usually drank about that much every night anyway, I think it was the 7 xanax and the fact that I consumed the whole liter in 2 hours that did me in that day......

      But I honestly dont know why I was depressed that day....... It was probably more of me trying to kill my boredom........

      Delete
    15. Also, it may have something to do with me not smoking the weed...... I smoked everyday for 9 years than just suddenly quiy...... It may have shocked my system a bit........

      Delete
    16. I realize that I had a death wish. I had so much self loathing because that was the only way to make sense of my life. There is a theory called Cognitive Dissonance. It is beautiful in it's simplicity and so true in how it plays out.

      We want to believe that what we learned, about ourselves, is true. You may say that it makes no sense. It does not make sense.

      It plays out at a visceral level, NOT the level of the mind. That is why the level of the mind cannot be used to combat it.

      If we hate and destroy ourselves, our lives "make sense". They fit what we were taught. They work. That is the thing. They work. We may die, in the process, but they play out as we were "told" they should.

      This is what is meant by a self fufilling prophecy. This stuff goes against one's logic, but one will play it out, as surely as clockwork, without a major intervention of some sort.

      The intervention has to be bigger than the root. The intervention is a process, not an event, also.

      Delete
    17. Interesting stuff there Monica...... I think I have MAJOR MAJOR Cognitive Dissonance :(

      Delete
    18. Rich
      People may laugh at me and think this is stupid, but SW has been my life line for over a year.

      Some people are jerks. You learn to ignore and walk away, but this one lesson is very hard won, and a major victory, in itself.

      Truth is the main ingredient in healing.

      Everyone can teach you something, whether that lesson is to walk away and pay no attention.

      Other people will have wisdom which will blow you away. You won't be coddled. You will have your ass kicked. You will become tougher.

      I, always, had some warm love, too. That may sound weird, for this place, but I, always,had it, and still do. Sometimes, the source of it surprised me, the most.



      Delete
    19. *spoken through gritted teeth Wednesday Addams-esque smile* welcome back to SPW Rich. You were missed.

      I liked the story telling the cops that you don't start fights - you finish 'em. >: )

      Delete
    20. Thank you Monica and Anonymous, Iam gonna go post this on todays discussion so we can talk today :)

      Delete
    21. I liked the story telling the cops that you don't start fights - you finish 'em. >: )



      Very cool!

      Delete
  18. Question to Sociopaths, Empaths, Narcissists, Borderlines, and otherwise non-diagnonsensed Humans regarding mirroring and masks and meaning and maniacal mayhem:
    If every single person on the world BESIDES YOU perished in some fantastic poof of magic or disaster, WHAT THEN? WHAT WOULD YOU DO/THINK/FEEL?
    Would it matter if other species survived, like animals? Let's say, just for fun, that you have enough food available to live for five years or so.
    Put this in the framework of the conversations above, identity and lack thereof, and this could be fun.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Non-diagnosed here.

      "If every single person on the world BESIDES YOU perished in some fantastic poof of magic or disaster, WHAT THEN?"
      I'd freak out at first, think I gone crazy then shrug and move on.

      "WHAT WOULD YOU DO/THINK/FEEL?"
      Eat, sleep, try to learn how to maintain electricity etc.

      "Would it matter if other species survived, like animals?"
      In what sense? Would I prefer? Yes as I think oxygen would get very low without the life on oceans...

      "Let's say, just for fun, that you have enough food available to live for five years or so.
      Put this in the framework of the conversations above, identity and lack thereof, and this could be fun."
      I was expecting an interesting last question...

      Delete
    2. i would drive around in the fire truck and make all the sirens go.. :)

      long term, i would spend the winters in the city, learn how to use a portable generator, farm in the summers, go vegan, and travel a lot... bye bye office life! running out of coffee would suck.

      having no one around would be creepy at first, then i'd get used to it.

      Delete
    3. I asked the question to challenge the narcies, silly.

      Delete
    4. Don't see anything unique or special about the answers here.

      I'm asocial (not antisocial like some of you) and frankly, I'd be relieved if people were to disappear.

      "But what about sex?" Well... just take a speedboat to Japan and grab the hottest real doll.

      Delete
  19. Theory:
    All left handed individuals were once a twin in the womb. (this is actually true)
    High levels of testosterone were produced for two male babies
    High levels of testosterone are found in sociopaths and left handed individuals without a living (born) twin sibling
    Therefore 1/2 of all sociopaths are left handed compared to 10% of all people and the increased hormones made certain parts of the left hem underdeveloped.
    Dun dun dun..

    Check out how many of the last 10 presidents are left handed.. Coinsidence?

    Laughable food for thought...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Can I ask all of you actual diagnosed sociopaths and non diagnosed people but people who think they are sociopaths, how many of you are really left handed?

      This is interesting to me...............

      Delete
    2. Glad I could interest the uber empath

      Delete
    3. The left handed thing is fascinating.

      Delete
    4. Prenatal hormone imbalances may play a role in the gene expression for left-handedness. While the Geschwind–Galaburda testosterone hypothesis is often cited as cause, there is not any evidence to support the theory. However, more recent research has emerged suggesting that high prenatal estrogen exposure is a plausible alternative to Geschwind. In a study endorsed by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), it is suggested that men who were prenatally exposed to diethylstilbestrol (a synthetic estrogen based fertility drug), are more likely to be left handed.[14] Increased prenatal estrogen exposure in men, and its left-handed effect, may induce lower visual-spatial skills.

      Delete
    5. Ooooh I like this theory better than mine LOL

      Delete
    6. I write better with right, legible with left, backward with both, and forward with one, backward with one at the the same time.

      Delete
    7. PS - my parent, the malignant narcissist psychiatrist, told me after I showed him this party trick that only people with MPD could do that.
      I told him to go to hell. Then I said thanks, lol.

      Delete
    8. So first it was high testosterone and then high estrogen that caused the expression of lefties, LOL!

      I offer a synthesis which encompasses both opposing views, and integrates them into a larger theory.

      Basically lefties are experimental beings. It makes perfect sense. You have these lefty genes which can be expressed, and the trigger is STRESS!! Yes, truly that simple.

      If the environment calls for less radically minded individuals, ie conformists, then you pop out more righties. If the environmental terrain has gone amuck, then you need non-conforming, radical thinkers to pave the way. Stressful environment outside the womb leads to the sucking of the left thumb within it.

      Out pops a potential genius if he wins the arbitrary brain-organization lotto, and the species lives on another eon or so. Rise and repeat.

      Delete
  20. I'm a leftie, why?

    Ellicit, really? so you can write with both hands, or do you have a dominant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can write with both but am neater with the right hand as it's the one I learnt with. I prefer left hand for many things like using the mouse.

      Delete
    2. Depending on your age, many children were forced to write with their right hand in elementary school.

      Delete
    3. she's an old hag, the death of the dinosaurs was a sad moment for her

      Delete
    4. I heard about that as well, being forced, but i thought that was typically done in the old times.

      Ellicit, I actually never knew there was a mouse for the left hand. I use the right hand for that. Not trying to be a tease, but during masturbation I use the right hand as well, same when I dribble for basketball. Everything else is the left.

      Anon 9ten, wtf?

      Delete
    5. When you stuck animal bones into your ass, was it with the left or right? We sure gotta know that too

      Delete
    6. I haven't tried that yet. I don't fancy pain, and I'd imagine that would hurt.

      Delete
    7. I use the normal mouse. It makes no difference whether I use it with either hand other than feels natural using it with my left hand. Pens feel more natural in the right but I was never told to use my right hand for it. My sister is dual-handed to a lesser extent too.

      Delete
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