Friday, April 27, 2012

Manipulation: movies and music

In a comment regarding aspies and auties, "jane" says:
Also, I've found that aspies can be made to feel an emotional understanding through music or movies. They do so love their movies.
Okay, yes, I think this applies at least in part to sociopaths too. We all know that music and movies with music are manipulative. Case in point, even though I am generally cold-hearted, I can frequently be moved by certain films, sometimes so much so that I have a crisis of identity and wonder, do I have the full spectrum of emotions after all? But it seems like not really, because only movies and music reliably trigger it. How do they do it? Tap into our primal psyches to produce some sort of behavioristic response? Like when our eyes water when we see other people's eyes tearing up? Or like how yawns are contagious? Do chimpanzees do the same? Does that mean sociopaths are closer evolutionarily to chimps than humans? Ha.

Also Jane says in response to my advocacy of neurodiversity rights for sociopaths:
I suppose I just feel that trying to put us on the same page as aspie's is the namby-pamby way out when there's much more fun to be had simply remaining unidentified rather than accepted as defected.
Too true, Jane. Particularly because if we, for whatever reason, needed to be "out" or part of an acknowledged acceptable neurodiversity "minority," we could just masquerade as aspies by toning down the charm, playing up the social awkwardness, and pretending to be obsessed with something bizarre like '80's action movie music scores. Right aspies?

101 comments:

  1. I do the same thing insofar as responding emotionally to movies and music. Novels, too, sometimes.

    I don't know why music elicits this response, save to guess that perhaps music influences emotions through a mechanism other than empathy.

    For movies and books, though, I think a big part of it is that it's easier to identify with a fictional character. Since most movies are enjoyable primarily by identifying with one or more characters, it's essential that they're designed to encourage that identification, and that because people enjoy movies more when they can identify, they train themselves to do so. Sociopaths included.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A lot of things in life have simple answers. Doctors and educated men can make a simple thing so complex that one has no idea how to get at the root of it while a child or a person with a child like eye could see to the root. This seems to be the case with many of the sacred cows in society.

      With that being said, if a sociopath can cry at a movie, he HAS emotions. He has empathy. I am not saying it is not expressed differently. However, it is there. It is nascent. He is not a person set apart from the human race. There is no other explanation for it imho

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    2. Why are you replying to a 2009 post?

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    3. ME puts the old posts out for present discussion. That seems quite obvious. Wouldn't you say? Do you have anything to add other than a petty remark like that? You sound like Raven LOL

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    4. Was just asking. I didn't understand why there were old dates and thought you guys might not have seen. Why are you being so rude?

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    5. Monica I cried at a movie once from the slo motion without sound reaction from a minor character. I could not stop crying. I had to figure out why. It was from my childhood. It was about loss. It was very nice and healing. I was with my crazy socio boyfriend. He allowed me to feel whatever I wanted without coddling. He was magic wood.

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    6. wood is ALWAYS magic

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    7. First off, I am not a sociopath. I am suffering from major depression/anxiety brought about from trauma, although my diagnosis does not fit PTSD. So why am I posting here? I thought my experience re: movies and music might be helpful as comparison. I have been going through a thing for months now of watching movies/shows about people experiencing intense emotions, especially sadness/despair/pain, and this is the only time I cry or allow myself to feel emotions. I think it's because I can remove all of the emotions from myself... it's projected onto the other fictional characters. I'm not feeling my own emotions, I'm feeling someone else's, and it is controlled because I can shut the movie off and then it's over. When the movie ends, I am back "in control." Maybe it is not that socios don't have the emotions or can't have the emotions/empathy, but on a very deep id level, the brain is directing you not to have the emotions in order to stay in control, because control=survival. The movie/music is not real, and the brain recognizes that... the brain isn't suspending disbelief. The movie is a completely safe place to be emotional because it is apart from reality. I apologize if my comment is totally unhelpful or inappropriate.

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    8. Very insightful there 11:18. As an Aspie, I've always had trouble processing emotions. As a kid, it was hell for my family with screaming and tantrums. I think we really feel deeply, but have no idea what to do with it. I've always loved watching movies too and what you said makes sense. Also, I think that there is a difference between detachment and non-attachment. Sociopath are detached, whereas "normal" people are non-attached. Empaths are over attached. Everyone just needs to study Buddhism, even if you don't subscribe to the religion, there are good philosophies about non-attachment. We can be non-attached but still care and have compassion.

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  2. I find that the only times I am moved to feel are from movies and music. I thought I was the only one.

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    Replies
    1. Me too... But even then it's very few movies that truly move me, and in only specific contexts.

      I do find myself siding with villains more often than the good guys as well. I find the villains to be more realistic than the good guys! But that's off topic here.

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    2. Me three!
      I feel you, Julian. I almost always liked and rooted for the villains in movies, even as a child. Especially love the smartass ones. Would watch horror movies to see if I could finally find one to scare me, but no such luck yet.

      If I hear a particularly good piece of music, I can actually not just feel emotion, but even get a slight tingling down my spine. It really has to be something special though.

      80's music has been known to drive me to tears - of frustration and annoyance that is...

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    3. I rarely cry. Not even when my parent died. But I can watch a show that pulls tears from me... interesting for sure.

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    4. It's not off topic if multiple folk are responding to it. Besides, monkies suck.

      on the topic of movies, i think folk react more to the villain because they are more interesting, or perhaps they tap into a psyche most people wish they can experience. I like the villains because they are usually sadistic assholes, and i want one (or at least claim to, but realistically would not handle dealing with them all to well in reality).

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    5. For me at least the villains (some of them anyway) appeal because I feel something of a kinship with them. It's the shallow emotions, insane levels of pragmatism, and the ability to make the tough callous decisions.

      So for me it's not so much gratuitous violence or sadistic behaviours - it's the more thoughtful and psychologically effective ones that appeal to me.

      Delete
    6. Any one see Sexy beast?

      Ben Kingsley was interesting in that.

      Delete
    7. @Piles

      If you even come back on today...
      Some dog must have dug her up. Half her face was eaten. I put her in a big tupperware box, and am storing her in the storage closet of my patio.

      Any suggestion?

      Delete
    8. yes, seen sexy beast! good movie!

      Delete
  3. If you play a film and mute the sound, it isn't very moving at all, so I'll just say that it's really the music that moves people. I'm quite unemotional now, but music does really stir my emotions.

    Apparently when a human hears sound, it is processed in an area of the brain that's right next to the part that is aroused by touch. Although for some reason now touch doesn't mean very much to me (when it felt amazing to be hugged a few years ago), perhaps this is the reason music stirs up emotions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I get a very physical reaction to certain music, and that goes double for live performance.

      Incidental music on TV or films always felt to me like a huge neon arrow saying 'at this point in the plot you have to feel this emotion'.

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    2. Music works really well in horror films I find. I don't find horror films all that scary, but the soundtrack and build up tension to exploit your startle reflex (which I don't think is true fear when it comes to films, it's a bit of a cop out).

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    3. *but the soundtrack can...

      I should proof read my text before hitting publish!

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    4. I thought you disliked horrors Julian. Interesting point on the villains however. A kinship? Indeed!

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  4. "pretending to be obsessed with something bizarre like '80's action movie music scores. Right aspies?"

    Ah Ha! I love the 80's...

    ReplyDelete
  5. People want to be told what to do and what to think.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Last week an elevator man pointed out in his bible out of the blue, just straight out of the blue, and said see this here? This means you NEVER ask other people for answers. You never go to other people first. You must always go to god first. I understood this. I don't believe in god, but I know what it means to me.

      Sometimes I love strangers for their telling me what to do.

      Delete
  6. This post is true :)
    A few days after i read about sociopathy disorder and made a conclusion, that my actions fit this thing i wathced a film and cried (a bit), while watching, first time in my life, then i got confused and thought same thing as you did, M.E., later I googled and read that this is common for socios...
    Also music is very appreciated by me, i listen to it from my iPod almost every or every day.
    Maybe it's because theese things give us control, we can turn of our player any time, change music anytime we want, listen to what we want and so on.
    We would better mascarade as *normal* people, if we need to.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Mini Mee,the way you string your words together passes for 'normal',if you're 12 years old.Maybe you should duct tape you're mouth and go back to school,or team up with an older more accomplished S that can show you the ropes.

    Until then,join the likes of the silent observer,and spare us the the urge of wanting to kick your head in.

    Go play nintendo,game boy or keep listening to iPod or play with leggos.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Is that a new rule ?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anon 05.57, I can't take your words seriously, because you might be joking :)

    I am not that young, but you are right, I am not very experienced, THIS IS WHY I 'M WRITING HERE...

    Also your arguments are not very good.

    But I'll try to string my words better next time, thanks for advice.

    Mini Mee :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mini Mee, lots of people talk like kids here. It's contagious. Most are real dumbasses trying to figure out how they feel about things.

      Delete
    2. Well I'm not the smartest person in the room, but I'm not a dumbass too.

      Delete
    3. that is fake monica

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  10. Replies
    1. Themes- are you trying to move me with music? Because its working.. ;)

      Delete
    2. Themes for SW RegularsApril 28, 2012 at 1:32 AM

      lol

      Delete
  11. Music manipulates the brain, end of story. Unless you're a vegetable, you're susceptible to music in some way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Have you been improving on your health, T?

      Delete
    2. Oh... I just went to your blog, and read it. Will leave a comment when I'm done with a few other things. :)

      Delete
    3. Progress against the cancer is good, but the chemo is literally destroying my body.

      Delete
    4. hang in there, TNP. keep fighting.

      Delete
  12. I thought socios had very shallow emotions. What's this shit about feeling emotional to music?

    ReplyDelete
  13. the part of the brain that responds to music enables you to access other information. The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat is a story and case study about someone who had visual agnosia whose symptoms would disappear when he hummed or listened to music.

    if sociopaths feel emotions when listening to music, then the emotion or potential for emotions is there, and the difference is only in the way the information is accessed. perhaps sociopaths have a kind of emotional agnosia?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Right . I actually know of some of you guys trying to masquerade as "one of us" but there's something you can't control : you succeed , which is a dead giveaway , (example : one "famous" young, handsome "aspie" journalist of sorts in the community who is every day semi outed as a sociopath by some of us (or at least a Narcissist ), because he fails to follow strict moral values , seemingly mixing up his right and his wrong , which we spot in the blink of an eye . He mentally abuses his spouse too, trying to pass it as "aspie clueless wtf are feelings ", but showing that he doesn't give a damn anyway , which is unaspie. Neurotypicals would probably be fooled , but the imitation is badly made and he doesn't fool us...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Aspie clueless wtf are feelings". That just made my day.

      Delete
  15. Glen Gould attempted this sort of mimicry by his late days, to no success.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Pee Part ToucherJune 1, 2012 at 1:30 AM

    I often touch my pee parts and then sniff. Bear in mind that I only shower once a week and do A LOT of Autistic stimming. The smell is perhaps yet another stim. Stiffing my hand relaxes and calms me.

    ReplyDelete
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