Sunday, March 3, 2013

Sociopaths = moral nihilists

Our friend Mr. Birdick on another site:
Let me give you a personal anecdote. Once upon a time, I was in the military. During one afternoon lunch period in boot camp, I remember having a small epiphany as I was standing in line waiting to reach the counter. I looked around and saw groups of my fellow inmates… I mean, recruits… sitting at their tables, following the rules handed down to us by our “superiors”. No talking, no horse play, eat quickly. I saw the recruits sneakily having whispered conversations, quietly disobeying those rules. I saw the officers in charge sitting at their table, talking loudly and raucously, enjoying themselves and seeming to revel in their “elevated” position in the hierarchy. I saw the differences in uniform. One group’s uniforms signifying their roles are superiors, the other group’s signifying their roles as inferiors, people who could and would be yelled at, disrespected and ordered about by the superiors. I saw that we all, officer and recruit alike, volunteered to put on these costumes and play these roles. And it hit me that it was all a joke. We were all playing a very elaborate game of make believe for adults. What’s more, I saw that this is how it is everywhere. It wasn’t just boot camp. It was Congress. It was corporate America. It was church. It was family. We are all playing these roles, and what’s more, I saw that we did not have to. It is our fear, among other, less potent motivations, that keeps us locked into the mass absurdity. We believe in rules that have no basis in any other space outside of the human brain. It’s like the rules of Monopoly, the board game. We agree to play by them, but once the game is done, we fold up the board, put the pieces and the cash away, and forget all about the rules that make the game possible. (Obviously I’m not original. This was long before I’d even heard of game theory.) But human society is one game that never, EVER ends. How would you feel if one morning you awoke, walked out of your home to face the day only to discover that everyone appears to be living and dying and killing by the rules of what you were raised to believe was only a board game? For me, the rules, the roles and the beliefs are all part of a game, one that is not real and is not important. But it appears that for most other people, the game is real. It’s all real to them and it all matters, including and especially who they believe themselves to be. Everything appears to hinge of their sense of identity (their roles). It’s so important in fact that they are willing to kill in the name of their rules and roles and make believe society. None of it has to cohere. It does not have to make sense even. It just has to be what they believe is true and right. It is the function of beliefs, not their veracity, that matters most.

That is my subjective experience of society around me. Again, I believe that most people are not being consciously disingenuous. To reiterate, I understand all too well that many people mean it from the depths of their being when they think, feel and believe certain things. All of the above is the very meaning of most people’s lives. But for me, these people I am referring to are like straw dogs, empty suits who confuse emotional depth with reality. They believe that what they think and what they feel is the be all to end all. They do not see the blind biology that makes their beliefs about themselves and their society possible. They most certainly refrain from any kind of sustained introspection. So naturally, they mistake their beliefs and feelings with fact and they surround themselves with others who will agree with them as a means of shoring up those beliefs, their yay-sayers. Why else would the average human ego be so fragile and so in need of constant validation if it were not comprised of mostly opinion, wish fulfillment and patterns of behavior acquired in childhood and repeated in what passes for adulthood? (In other words, hot air.) The smarter ones may see some of this in others but they can never see it in themselves because they believe that they and theirs, among all other groups, have somehow won the belief lottery: their beliefs are of course right and true and honorable! Their families, their religion, their country is what’s right and true and honorable. Their version of love is the real version, the right and true and honorable version. And what threatens a belief, a feeling, a sense of self in constant need of propping up? Other people, with their conflicting beliefs and feelings and senses of self of course, which explains the ubiquitous conflict of all types, found at all levels of society, from the nuclear family all the way up to the captains of industry and heads of state. In the name of love (of “soul mate”, family, country, god, capitalism, communism, etc) they have waged all kinds of war and invented the means with which to destroy every human being on this lovely but insignificant little planet of ours.

Then they have the nerve, the gall to label people who, for one reason or the other find themselves emotionally disconnected from all the above, as pathological. They say they are “chilled” when someone can kill without remorse, even as they support killing in the name of ~fill in the blank with a preposterous reason~. It is truly laughable. Why should I play by their rules when those rules are so often mind numbingly stupid and pointless? Why should I beat myself up or lose sleep at night because I fail to take what I see as one great big walloping delusion seriously?

The above may sound as if I am angry with society. That would be misleading. Right now, at this moment, the most I feel is slightly annoyed at the ludicrousness of it all and at the fact that I am forced to navigate through this miasma of BS just to survive. Otherwise, it is what it is. There is nothing to do but accept it, deal with it, and even from time to time, take advantage of it for my own gain.

60 comments:

  1. In many ways, I have to agree. Leaving out the possibility of a transcendent truth, society is just a game of strategy. And those against you--who play by a different set of rules--they are the enemy, rather than the competitor who plays by yours. The key to seeing it like this, though, is leaving out that "truth."

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  2. this little tidbit m.e. took from that other site isn't new, its kinda old news, though, still a great point.

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  3. i get frustrated sometimes because the game can feel like a cage. it’s frustrating having to plod along with everyone else and go from point a to point b, then c, then d, then e, and so on until at last z, when z is just around the corner.

    but to quote Bill Hicks, it’s just a ride, and being aware of that is stepping out of the cage.

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    1. Welcome to the Matrix Beeee aaatchh!

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  4. Replies
    1. :) There's the cartoon, Zoe.

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  5. Specific person/there's one on the bottom.

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  6. I meant to say maybe...

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  7. would you say you are a sociopath or just have an enlightened(bigger picture) point of view?

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  8. Mr. Birdick has won the belief lottery. His vision of reality is the end all to be all, and his beliefs are of course right and true and honorable.

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  9. Am I the only that hates this Daniel Douche-Bag?

    This Dick is nothing more than a sad little man who has achieved nothing, accomplished nothing and has nothing to show for his life other than childish rants dressed up with fancy words and shallow intelligence. The fact that he managed to lure Dr. Robert into a long ass conversation about just how empty he is only shows how dumb Dr. Robert is. I could say the same thing about M.E. for featuring Dick yet again. Dick isn't a sociopath. He's probably just a sad, lonely, angsty little boy who is angry at the world for not seeing just how awesome he is. You can tell that Dick has spent too much time reading and not enough time living. Dick, if you're reading this, here's a clue for ya: shut down your computer, get out of the basement and try to get laid. For starters. Then go and oh, I don't know, GET A LIFE!

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  10. Specific person/there's one on the bottom.

    oh. well what the heck is it doing down there?

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  11. i agree with a number of Daniel's points. life is just this game we play, and even if you know it's only a game you have to play along because there is nothing else, no other society, human or alien, out there waiting to embrace you.

    Daniel's rant does come off a bit angry, which suggests that on some level it may not be a game to him. he reminds me of a friend of mine who gets annoyed with people's stupidity. but to get annoyed implies that you have a vision of a better way. that's commendable, but not sociopathic, though i could be wrong on that. anyway it's the visionaries who change the world (and hopefully make it better).

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  12. I don't think Daniel "lured" the doctor into anything. I have read most of the doctor's site, and he is far from "dumb." In fact, he is brilliant as most of the thousands of daily visitors to his site would attest I am sure. He was using the conversation with Daniel to make important points about psychopathy, guilt and compassion. If you are as cool as you think you are, Dick Hater, let's see what you have to say about those items.

    And before you do,why not give this a read and then comment.

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  13. Ok, I'm Dick Hater. I lurk most of the time. I've only commented here when I am especially irritated by people here who pretend to be smarter/more insightful than they actually are. Peter Pussy is one and Daniel Dickless is the other. Zoe you're right. Dickless's comments show that he isn't and never was a sociopath, just a sad sack with a thesaurus.

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  14. "Crazy Dice", isn't your mouth feeling a little empty with Doc Robert's dick in it? Go back to Doc Robbie's site so your betters can talk, will ya?

    You've got a cult follower's mindset, know that?

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  15. That doctor has a lot of psychopathy/sociopathy related email exchanges posted on his site. He seems to be very interested in the subject.

    In another one of his posts he states that true bisexuality is rare and that most of those who claim to be bisexual are really gay and don't want to admit it. He says most people lean one way or the other. What I wonder is how much does one have to lean in one way to be considered in his view as afraid to acknowledge being homosexual?

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  16. Jimmy my boy, have you ever considered that maybe I just don't care, and I get my kicks from arguing about 20 different sides of the arguments which keep recurring here? Obviously, if you were as insightful as you seem to think you are, you'd have noticed that pattern. It's not easy to miss blatant contradiction. You might also realize that nobody who is pretending to be insightful or intelligent would draw and post dumb pictures of rabbits, contradict themselves every 2-3 topics, and write stupid stuff like IT'S ENTERTAINMENT MOTHERFUCKER LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP AND SUCK MY SOCKS!!!!

    Come on guy, don't get so bothered over some text on a website. Maybe you should take some of your own advice.

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  17. Daniel doesn't get it -- the intellectual content or veracity of people's beliefs are truly irrelevant, even to the believers. People are in it for the relationships -- the sense of community, emotional resonance, social orientation. That's what's real.

    There's not point in railing against Obama, recycling, God or Valentine's Day. None of this stuff is careful considered by the anyone.

    You just have to fake the 'share experience'. Once you've mastered that you can travel with nazis, pro-choicers, cat fanciers, evangelical christians . . . every genus of human retard.

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  18. ^See, even grammar and syntax are irrelevant.

    No more long tiresome 'undergrad' essays about how phony the world is please.

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  19. I originally posted what follows in the House/Remorse thread as a question to Zoe. After I posted it, I felt it wasn't exactly expressing what I wanted to ask, so I asked that it be ignored. Zoe responded to it saying she thought they were good questions and asked if I would repost it here, in this thread. So here it is.


    -----------------------------

    Hi Zoe.

    Do you think that everyone who experiences a sudden and significant increase in their level of awareness and in the strength of their faculties and various skills is on the road so to speak to "sociopathy"?

    Is sociopathy just freely being whatever it is that you are?

    As one way of looking at it, do you think that at least partially that AS and S are in a way both reactions to abuse? The first closes down while the latter attack head on?

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  20. is it me, or does dick hater remind anyone of ukan?

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  21. were you abused aspie? is that why you became an aspie? did someone hurt you when you were little?

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  22. Maybe I wasn't treated very considerately. I believe, and I may be wrong or perhaps just partially right, that the genesis was a bad reaction to a food which caused dysfunction, social ineptitude etc which led to general (interpreted by me) hostile feedback and maybe attracted more seriously abusive people which solidified a direction. I'm not sure about that.

    I'm don't know what S is anymore.

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  23. the "s" is whatever you want it to be.

    the guy who beats his wife: S
    the banker who scams millions: S
    the killer who feels nothing: S
    the lunch lady who gives you a veggie-burger: S


    the S factor is largely used to put a label onto whatever action that seems unnatural. that's why its so hard to classify what exactly is a sociopath, like god, there isn't any real proof that its exists, just the feeling that it does.

    i could be wrong, anyone who reads a psychology book could claim that the definition is correct or wrong, thus proving my point.

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  24. Jimmy Proffitt--I guess you would know about "betters," which would apply to practically everyone in the world compared to an jerk like you. If you think my honest appreciation of the doc's site and his work makes me a sycophant, it just goes to show that your fear of being an "underdog," even for a single second, blinds you to learning anything from anyone. You would rather remain the ignorant parasite you obviously are than acknowledge that another person might have an intelligence or an expertise which you lack. For you it's all a game called "I always come out on top." The problem with that is that what you are on top of is a pile of your own stinking turds.

    I'll repeat: the doc is brilliant, non-judgmental, and open-hearted. His website serves a lot of people really well. He has helped me (yes, I wrote to him once and got a really wise and kind reply), and continues to help many others--all gratis. Unlike you, he doesn't even think about power or who's smarter. His conversation with Daniel was a perfect example of kindness and comprehension. All without the usual negative judgment about sociopaths.

    What have you done in life, you would-be, wish-you-were, never-will-be ubermensch, to compare to that? All you do is "lurk" around here expressing your ridiculous fantasies of supposed superiority to an imagined audience which in fact doesn't give a damn about you and never will. No one cares what you think or what you say. Get you dick out of your own mouth, fool.

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  25. And, Proffitt, if you do manage to get your own dick out of your mouth, try to read this item from the doc, a letter to a muslim kid who wants to kill himself because he finds out his girlfriend isn't a virgin. When did you ever even lift a finger to help someone like that? People like you give sociopaths a bad name. I can lack emotions but still care about the human race. You? Nothing but your own totally-imagined "superiority."

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  26. "like god, there isn't any real proof that its exists, just the feeling that it does."

    i feel the same way, although the proof that's enough for me is seeing a little red book ant that is no more than a .5mm pencil dot, crawling and breathing and having life. forget about us, how the heck do these little creatures exist? who came here first? the chicken or the egg?


    and yes the world is phony, everybody is phony and opportunistic but having tiresome long winded views about it is not going to change anything.

    i believe the most important thing in life is to do good. just be good, despite your thoughts, do contrary to it, be kind and honest to the people in your life and strangers you come across, i believe that's how God meant for us to be.

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  27. "were you abused aspie? is that why you became an aspie? did someone hurt you when you were little?"

    Reflecting further on this, I suppose I could have fought back harder against the bullies, but ultimately made a choice not to I think partly because of pride (being vulnerable and feeling embarrassed) which I think produced deep shame.

    "i believe the most important thing in life is to do good. just be good, despite your thoughts, do contrary to it, be kind and honest to the people in your life and strangers you come across, i believe that's how God meant for us to be"

    faith

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  28. That's tellin' 'em, crazydice. I like dr. rob too.

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  29. or perhaps that is love

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  30. Daniel doesn't get it -- the intellectual content or veracity of people's beliefs are truly irrelevant, even to the believers. People are in it for the relationships -- the sense of community, emotional resonance, social orientation. That's what's real.

    very good point. people are also in it for the answers, so that they don't have to think for themselves.

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  31. Do you think that everyone who experiences a sudden and significant increase in their level of awareness and in the strength of their faculties and various skills is on the road so to speak to "sociopathy"?

    i used to listen to family members argue, and would interrupt them when it got boring and explain each side to the other in such a way that each could understand, which would instantly end the argument, leaving them still angry but with nothing to fight about and feeling a bit stupid, so they would get mad at me. sometimes they got mad that i had interrupted them and sometimes that i didn’t interrupt sooner. we would laugh about it but they could not really comprehend how i did it. one of them did refer to me as a sociopath once, jokingly. i was considered to be the most manipulative one in the family, which i always thought was funny. because they couldn’t understand it or experience it, there was something unnatural about my ability to read them.

    from a norm perspective someone who is able to see through you is being manipulative and taking advantage. they are doing something wrong or have something wrong with them. that they are just being themselves and processing all information available to them, just like everyone else, is difficult to comprehend.

    i think greater awareness brings more options, therefore more ways to make mistakes and offend or hurt others, and also predisposes you to feelings of contempt for others’ inability to comprehend or understand the “obvious”. depending on your personality and temperament you might act out. in that sense yes, i think someone with an increase in awareness is on the road to sociopathy.

    Is sociopathy just freely being whatever it is that you are?

    do you mean are sociopaths free spirits? :)

    As one way of looking at it, do you think that at least partially that AS and S are in a way both reactions to abuse? The first closes down while the latter attack head on?

    your question brings M.E.’s pitbull page to mind. assuming sociopaths have some traits they are born with, which i believe is the case, abusive environments might shape them differently from the way they would an empath. or the environment might not be abusive per se, but may be lacking stimulation or nurturing needed by the “sociopath” child.

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    Replies
    1. ^this in interesting conversation. I was like you, Zoe.

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  32. Jimmy is Daniel.

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  33. jimmy is daniel and also dick hater? im confused.

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  34. How can you not see it?

    I miss Birdick. Every so often I come back here and have a little look round but no, he isn't here.

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    Replies
    1. well I am here and I am first and this post makes me feel something.

      Passion.

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    2. ther's a pill for that

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  35. I could see that as a child, but my parents made me think I was mentally ill for seeing it. Wonderfully brilliant post! Magnificently written. Thank you for it!

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    1. Monica, you swim next to me!

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    2. By the ocean.

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    3. where do you live?

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  36. I am a free thinker and people mislabel me all the time as a rebel, or hippie or even a socio.

    I don't follow most institutions and practice civil disobedience.

    If my sons tried to join the military, I would shoot them in the foot.

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    1. I am a free thinker but i dont tell anybody because i want to be in the box they want me to be in so i can belong somewhere.

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    2. that's not a box that's jail
      (or a psyche ward if you can fake crazy)

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    3. I know ! THank you. I was hoping someone (else ) would see it too.

      It kind of sucks. I rob myself. But I have a very difficult time seeing me and liking what bit I see. I trying to change.

      I think once i did fake crazy, tbh. 1/2 way, tbh.

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  37. Agreed, love and god, the biggest delusions of all time!

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  38. WALL OF TEXT
    looks like i do fear something after all

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    ReplyDelete
  40. Great insight from the estimable Mr. Birdick, who I hope is well, wherever he may be.

    "Again, I believe that most people are not being consciously disingenuous." - more's the pity.

    QM

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  41. You're friend is correct, of cause. I have thought this way for years now. Still, he is, or so I believe, missing the point. We are herd animals. We would not have come this far, if we did not live in groups or, as of late, societies. That the rules -any rules- are relative and not at all obvious choices, does not change the fact that a society or group works better when all/ most follow rules.

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    1. Even when the rules are absurd?
      Say we had a rule that everyone must engage in compulsory acts of arson and vandalism in a society dedicated to its own destruction. Things would then work better if all or most refused to follow it, and came together to make a new set of more pro-society-surviving rules that would make what was previously compulsory prohibited. I'll grant here it's still relative and I'm SOL if even after all my efforts the society still sticks to the goal of destroying itself, but I certainly wouldn't just roll over and go along with the herd. I would do what I could to change people's minds, and would go to jail rather than participate in following the pro-destruction rules myself.

      It's too reductionist to say we're herd animals. If we were purely herd animals we would've never changed anything. People would still be sacrificed to Gods. We would still be burning witches. The individualist tendancy is necessary to prevent the problem of groupthink.

      Delete

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