Tuesday, August 9, 2011

Psychopath = adaptation, not disorder

A reader sent me this discussion of psychopathy as an adaptation:
A disorder, by definition, is the failure of some physical or mental feature to do its natural, evolved function.
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Research on psychopaths shows big differences in the ways they act (impulsive especially in the presence of rewards), process information (unaffected by emotionally powerful information), and learn from experience (resistant to punishment). These have been thought of as defects, but it is just as possible they are adaptations that underlie a life long aggressive, cheating, and manipulating strategy.
What is the new scientific evidence that suggests that psychopathy is an adaptation and not a disorder?
[O]ther researchers have discovered that violent people have high rates of particular types of medical problems in their histories -- obstetrical problems (toxaemia, Rh factor, maternal substance abuse, etc.), and perinatal difficulties (e.g., prematurity, low birth weight, severe fetal distress). Such problems are also associated with schizophrenia. These findings suggest that violence can be the result of problems in very early physical development, and that schizophrenia is a true disorder of neurological development. (It is interesting that people with schizophrenia are not especially violent, however.)

What does our adaptation theory say should be found in the prevalence of these medical problems among psychopaths? Because the theory says that psychopathy is not a disorder of neurological development, psychopaths should have fewer of these problems than other violent offenders. And that is what we found. If psychopathy were an extreme disorder (and knowing that these problems are associated with violence), one would predict that psychopaths would have high rates of these problems, but we found the opposite.

We also tested our theory with another measure of developmental stability -- fluctuating bilateral asymmetry. That is a polysyllabic way of saying, the degree to which the left side of the body is exactly the same size as the right side. In all species, the two sides of the body are genetically programmed to be the same size -- symmetrical. The amount of difference between the two sides, asymmetry, is a measure of the instability in a person's development. Again, violent individuals have been reported to be asymmetrical as have persons with schizophrenia. What about psychopaths? Our research showed that violent offenders who were also psychopaths were more symmetrical than those who were not psychopaths.

Again, although psychopaths are the most dangerous offenders, they do not have signs that their neurological development has been disrupted. From a medical point of view, they appear to have had healthy development compared to persons with schizophrenia or mental retardation.

Of course, our theory definitely says that the nervous systems of psychopaths must be different somehow. But that difference should not, according to the theory, look like damage. In fact, attempts by other researchers to find signs of damage in psychopaths using neuropsychological tests or fancy imaging methods (CT, PET, MRI scans, etc.) have not panned out.

So far at least, it does not look as though psychopaths have damaged brains, even though it does appear that their brains are different.
Interestingly, the author of this article (Grant Harris) was one of the researchers of the famed failed Social Therapy Unit at Oak Ridge from the 1960s-70s, through which we learned that having psychopaths sit around and talk about their feelings actually seems to make them worse, not better. Even then Dr. Harris acknowledged that psychopath doesn't seem much like your typical disorder: "Unlike virtually every other mental disorder, however, where the existence of the problem is inferred from difficulties experienced by the patient, psychopathy is a disorder whose negative effects accrue more to those who come into contact with the psychopath than to the patient him or herself."

Ha.

380 comments:

  1. Ahh, sweet vindication.

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  2. Thank you for an interesting article. You might also be interested in this article http://hbr.org/2011/07/the-unselfish-gene/ar/1 which suggests that co-operation is also an adaptation.

    It argues that the common assertion that most human beings act selfishly, except when constrained by norms, rules and policing, is wrong. Its argument is that cooperation is necessary for survival and that most humans have adapted genetically because of that. (Excuse the repetition of the word "most" but some of readers are particularly dim)

    Juxtaoposed with the article you have referenced, one realises that there are probably many adaptions within the same species; in this case humans. These adapations can co-exist and can, in my opinion, be symbiotic.

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  3. I rest my case. Ive been saying this since I got here. If it was a disorder there would be a treatment being worked on. If it was a disorder why are we so successful at getting others to do our bidding, to have our kids, and how do we mass wealth in ways that seem effortless. Why arent we 'suffering'? It doesn't make any sense to classify something as a disorder if it is benefiting the patient.

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  4. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d6_1312854614

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  5. if there is nothing wrong with psychopaths, then why do they massacre people?

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  7. sociopaths are totally saneAugust 9, 2011 at 2:40 AM

    http://theync.com/media.php?name=17963-shock

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  8. I have always believed this.
    Psychopathy is an evolved trait. Even the criminal psychopaths is better adapted than the average human, keep in mind that the modern legal system didn't exist for most of humanity. Narcissism is a disorder because the narc is suffering.

    Neurology is a real science where physical objects are studied. psychology is just a bunch of crap created by people who wanted an easy major. Most neruo psychologists (take over of psychology by neurology) and evolutionary psychology (biology envy)i have read agrees that psychopathy is a adaptive trait.
    Anyone who still claims that its nurture not nature is just stupid. Even if you can control every factor of a baby's development you can not create a p/s. How many kids from tough backgrounds who are not psychopaths? The fact is psychopathy is a result of evolution so our brains are just physically different. similar how neanderthals are different from Homo-sapiens. The monkeys are scared of us. Every time humanity has faces a different kind they kill them. They are afraid of the unknown. eventually they will want to erect neruo laws to brain scan every child and eliminate us.

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  10. Say Erin, how's Las Vegas this time of the year?

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  12. there is not a single good strategy in a society - there becomes an equilibrium between different strategies (Nash equilibrium - of 'a beautiful mind' fame). psychopaths are the minority defectors in the payoff matrix.

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  14. Sheesh, woman. I just wanted to know the weather. You don't have to sum up everything you 'learned' here and conclude by saying: "And that's why I won't be returning."

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  15. Noone cares Erin..
    You are fat

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  18. ERIN YOU ARE SUCH A FAKE.

    in other words, SHUT YO' ASS UP! one minute you berate that vile, abomination that is a prostitute a.k.a David then the next minute you want to engage him in a conversation and agree with him as if you two are blog friends when in reality you two have been fighting since he's been posting here. you've been outed, don't try to play it off fat ass.

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  20. well Erin got outed thats for sure. i knew she/he/it was a fake since the first long winded paragraph she/he/it spewed on here but was equally amazed at the regular posters and anon posters carrying on in useless back and forth convos with she/he/it. the truth is, now that she/he/it is outed, she/he/it will go into hiding for a very long time or think of someone else's identity to use. so in essence, everything "Erin" has said and will say under a new username is a complete and total lie. she/he/it was a troll, nothing more. probably a troll to boost the number of comments in a post and thus boost ME's Alexa ranking. trolls usually arive out of no where from the blog administrators themselves.

    side note, it could also be the real erin because the proxy information was found out through her username posting and ip address used to comment on this thread.

    August 9, 2011 5:43 AM

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  21. Your mother made you fat.. You cow

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  23. You had who in a corner? If I recall correctly, you were the one spasming from emotional outburst, while UKan just leaned back and enjoyed. You did exactly what he wanted to see. You claiming that all of SW was on your side only made it more pathetic. We're on noone's side. We're all just spectating most of the time.

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  25. Soooooo, were does Notable fit in all this, oh wise psychic Erin?

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  26. Tell yourself what you wish..you are still a cow..

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  28. give it up "erin". YOU'VE BEEN OUTED.

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  29. You saw it all.No need to recap.

    So dont .. Erin your ex is fucking a cute young thin girl while you eat twinkies while posting nonsense on sw. And you bought into the whole polyamourous routine.. Lol!

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  30. Yeah, I have to say my socio tendencies increase when I dwell on them. Probably because I further intellectualize my behaviour.

    Erin, make an actual blog so people don't have to read your shitty, pointless comments.

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  31. out of guilty conscience, "ERIN" will attempt to spam post to anyone who will listen.

    IGNORE IT AND IT WILL GO AWAY.

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  32. @sociopaths are sane

    wow, those guys are the pinnacle of a healthy mind.

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  33. face it yall, sociopaths are batshit. normal people are normal.

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  35. no, i am not weird, its genetic superior

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  36. i am the pinnacle of a healthy mind, i am sure u would let me baby sit ur children

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  37. @Richard

    please pay erIn a visit..

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  38. To Wet,

    Even the criminal psychopath's is better adapted then the avarage human'

    Adapted to what?

    Thats to general, can mean anything.

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  39. now all of a sudden "ERIN" attempts to talk about the topic at hand. what's the matter? you don't want to tell us your about your irrelevant life story any more like you do in each and every post? are you running out of ideas and lies to spew? face it, you've been outed.

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  40. There's no use talking to her, she probably has her eyes closed and her fingers in her ears, :P

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  43. ME had to contact her to tell her she was outed and how to act unaffected so as to not invite real damage to her sad empty world

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  45. Yeah... But can't you give us the short version? Or some kind of 'Best off'? Because going through all your posts just to find fragments of your lifestory would be a bit like dropping a diamond ring somewhere in lake victoria, and then trying to get it back up by drinking all the water in the lake. Except that lake Victoria would have to be completely made of shit. And the ring as well.

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  46. No one cares about your bogus life story.. Now your real one, that ia a different story...

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  48. I used to love reading the comments to this blog.
    Then "Erin" showed up and it's all annoying blathering.
    Blech.

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  49. We all saw your fb pic..lol

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  50. Not exactly sure what your problem with me is, but whatever.

    And how is it that you are Grand Judge of everyone?

    And is this site called erinworld.com?

    IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU.

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  53. I would gladly take more abuse just to make Erin go away.

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  55. Tik

    ensure that you or more scientifically your genes survive

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  56. how did ME know to contact you? unless you are the real ERIN that got put on blast? EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS A LIE ERIN. who in their right mind would go back to read your delusional rants?

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  58. i'm sure lots of those kids running around London are sociopaths.

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  60. All this speculation and theories on phychopathy. Your behavior goes way back in history. So if it's evolution why hasn't it happened to everyone?

    Could have been an experiment, gone wrong or something they were eating or drinking when pregnant.

    That you think your special powers are superior is only in YOUR minds. You hide from society because the behavior you display is not benificial to anyone but yourselves and counter productive and distructive to others.

    Your conspiracy theoies could equate to guilt on a more unconscience level in a very limited way. Just a thought.

    All efforts in finding psychopaths is out of finding the ones who commited a crime and preventing crime. If you weren't harmful and distructuive to others there would never be a need for it.

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  61. i think what is happening in london is great, i wish that would happen everywhere. pure chaos.

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  65. you don't have to register to comment here. you don't have to register to do anything here. you could have posted as anonymous but you came here with the purpose of being a troll.

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  66. @david

    sometimes we need time to drop the mask.

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  68. i love fitting the role of a well adjusted "normal" person just as much as any other sociopath, but i feel at my best when committing violence.

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  69. My mom and dad called the London looters thugs and idiots, but what is wrong with taking things for free?

    The people who are idiots are the ones not in there stealing smart phones, laptops and any cash in the tills.

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  70. Fenadril
    This is not good Erin. Now they think that Erin is the real Erin pavlina.

    She has been spamming this place for a while.

    They have been browsing your Fb page and making comments about your son, etc.

    Erin
    It's unfortunate. I don't even know who those people are or why they are talking about me so negatively. It's part and parcel to putting yourself out there for public consumption. They shouldn't bring children into it though. That's pretty low

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  71. Well David you just judged me.

    So tell me what nerve you wanted to hit?

    What superior point were you trying to make that would make me put my tail between my legs and scamper away?

    All the boasting you guys do on here is because you have to hide and blend so that you can function in the real world.

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  73. because the ERIN on SW was pretending to be the real ERIN PAVLINA. either way, the ERIN on SW is a FRAUD. the disgraceful bitch is a damn liar who unfortunately has dragged a woman and her son into this mess.
    #when trolling fails

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  76. yes because trolls are easily identifiable by their signature blog name for attention whoring purposes. David is a repulsive gay whore. You are a repulsive attention whore. and you managed to drag a little boy into this. you should jump off a cliff or at the very least play in rush hour traffic.

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  78. yes because trolls are easily identifiable by their signature blog name for attention whoring purposes. David is a repulsive gay whore. You are a repulsive attention whore. and you managed to drag a little boy into this. you should jump off a cliff or at the very least play in rush hour traffic.

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  79. Question for you guys all.

    If pyschopathy were really an adaptation, why don't we all have it. Why is it that only certain people seemed to have adapted?

    Furthermore, if this really is an adaptation, this should mean that the occurrence of this mental state should be more prevalent in the future.

    I think this is just a theory.

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  80. sociopaths are the most mentally ill people on earth.

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  82. Sociopaths are different then Psychopaths anon.

    We are talking about people born with temperamental abnormalities, not people who were emotionally blunted.

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  83. @jason

    are you actually implying that sociopaths are sane? that is laughable.

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  84. Anon 7:44, the use of trolling has been thrown around so much that it bearly has meaning on this blog.

    Your posting under anonymous and slingging shit at socio's on a socio blog is trolling.

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  86. I am implying that psychopathy is just being born without empathy.

    Sociopaths usually are the result of something wrong being done. They are reactive individuals who were conditioned to be amoral people who don't care about others.

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  87. @jason

    then give me the name of a psychopath?

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  89. Zwhaq and M.E. are good examples.

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  90. @jason

    lmfao, that proves nothing.

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  91. there has yet to be any proof that there are "born" psychopaths.

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  92. Anon, are you trying to say that having a bad childhood is some prerequisite to being a sociopath?

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  93. tik, you are pathetic. you are probably erin. you are still defending her after her trolling has beeen exposed. what do you have to gain from defending her unless offcourse that is your alternate username, "erin". what a dummy.

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  95. I don't recall hitler having an awful upbringing.

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  98. @jason

    you are grabbing at straws now, there is absolutely no proof that there are born psychopaths. it would make a good movie, but it's untrue.

    hitler had a brutal childhood.

    "His father - Alois - was fifty-one when Hitler was born. He was short-tempered, strict and brutal. It is known that he frequently hit the young Hitler. Alois had an elder son from a previous marriage but he had ended up in jail for theft. Alois was determined that Hitler was not going to go down the same round - hence his brutal approach to bringing up Hitler. Some believe that the background of Alois was a potential source of embarrassment for the future leader of Nazi Germany,"


    "Hitler’s mother - Clara - was the opposite of Alois - very caring and loving and she frequently took Hitler’s side when his father’s poor temper got the better of him. She doted on her son and for the rest of his life, Hitler carried a photo of his mother with him where ever he went."

    "Hitler was not popular at school and he made few friends. He was lazy and he rarely excelled at school work. In later years as leader of Germany, he claimed that History had been a strong subject for him - his teacher would have disagreed !! His final school report only classed his History work as "satisfactory"."

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  99. Anon 8:05

    Your stament to me was pathic, just proves how low or limited your reading capasity is.

    I was trying to get her to move on and stop the name calling.

    But I failed.

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  103. @anon 8:11

    Interesting, while I disagree that people cannot be born as Psychopaths, I could agree that having such a condition does not magically give you above average intelligence.

    Your information on hitler is proof of that. He basically did average and below average in school. It was ability to be a ruthless leader that mattered in the end I guess.

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  104. @jason

    if you look at all the horrible figures in history, you will see traumatic events in childhood. i'm not saying they weren't always bad, but surely it made it worse.

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  106. And we continue to laugh at you

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  107. if i was born into the perfect home i would still be socio, but i wasn't i was born into a strange mix of love and abuse..... so i have strange views on love.... and abuse.

    fact is WE are valuable members of our society, for every dollar we cost we make five..... we develop new systems, new business and create jobs.... not taking away from the negatives but to ignore the positives is blind

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  108. question about love:

    if a man kisses you like he loves you, makes love to you like he loves you, caresses you like he loves you, DOES that really mean he loves you? or is it just an act? or is he just a passionate person? or is he just catering to your needs. i am baffled as to why men can physically express themselves as if they love you but due to this or that break up with you or drop you like a bad habbit the next day.

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  109. David stop saying we. There is no fucking we. There is me. There is you. There is no we. You must being a sociopath gets you into a social club. You must feel weak in life so you want to believe you are a sociopath. That way you can blame how you are different on something and feel empowered.

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  110. @anon 8:51

    Why does there have to be a connection between a physical action and an emotion? If you just wanted that action then leaving afterwards is easy. Everyone uses other people. The only difference in that since between me and everyone else is that I do it with ease and without regrets about it.

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  111. Everyone just ignore Erin. She wants attention.

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  113. "Everyone just ignore Erin. She wants attention."

    Obviously.

    "you must being a sociopath gets you into a social club"

    My mind moves faster then my fingers and I generally don't care to proofread. Interject think after must.

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  114. "comprehendable"

    You mean comprehensible. Don't harp on someones English then go and make a mistake in the very line where you knock them. It makes you look stupid. Specially when there is an automatic spell check on here.

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  118. so Kesu you are saying the intensity of the physical action carries no emotion? that's so hard for me to believe. If you don't like or love someone, why make love to them like they were your soulmate only to leave them later. i guess the part that really gets me is how easy it is for men to forget about women they were interested in and move on to someone else.

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  119. i bet mis is out looting

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  120. This looks like an unmoderated forum that is used by kids. I can not say my life in enhanced in any way by reading the text on that forum. desert rat

    Won't someone please think of the children?~

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  121. Postmodern, monitoring that topic is fruitless. EVeryone knows that the Erin here is fake, no need in goading her and giving her anymore credit.

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  122. Do you guys know what happened in england? Why they are rioting ?

    I missed the news and have no idea why this reaction.

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  123. @Jason: Not monitoring. I just liked the comment.

    @Anon: Young people are angry about not having a future.

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  124. @anon 9:59

    Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. There is a theory about this in evolutionary psychology. Basically a males need is to reproduce and have offspring isn't tied to one woman. He can have as many pregnancies as he wants. As long as he can mate with different women. Women can only have a pregnancy once a every 10 monthes.

    Now for males you want your offspring to carry forth your genetics and then reproduce themselves. For men the best chance of that is by having large numbers of children. It is far more likely that at least 1 of 50 children will live to reproduce. Just one child is far less likely to make it to adulthood.

    Now what women want is to secure a male's resources to give that single child the best chance of survival possible. The best way to do that is to secure an emotional attachment with the man.

    Here is a good example of that. A male cheats on a female. The males says to the female "She didn't mean anything to me. I love you." now the females might still be mad but she is comforted by this to some extent.

    Lets flip the roles though. In the exact same situation the male won't be comforted by hearing that at all. Why? Because it causes a question in any children's link to him. Males want to know, to KNOW, that a child is theirs. They don't want to dispense resources to a child that isn't theirs. Unlike women though they don't carry a direct physical connection.

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  125. Wiskey and orange juice For The Win !

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  126. erin.... you have an interesting life....seems to me you have alot of schemes going on....

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  127. Ive studied all sorts of things for years.... like how to charge 800 bucks an hour to read peoples wants and desires..... and you claim david is a whore.


    wild wild ride.

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  129. erin.... you really are a dumb cunt.

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  131. i love that man!

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  134. @Erin

    What do you want to know about it?

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  137. It would not surprise me if TNP was Erin.

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  138. erin pavlina

    you fat bitch

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  139. erin... you mother should have raped your ass with a cactus. as should your dead baby have been.

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  140. @Erin

    Sadism is not a necessary trait of a sociopath. It is also not a trait exclusive to sociopaths but includes some empaths as well.

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  143. im fairly confident that your psychic powers cant penetrate my life

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  146. "In The Company Of Wolves"

    I was lost but now I am found.
    A line was crossed, a vessel run aground.
    The boy has gone, let's grieve and let him go.
    He left at dawn, but it's a new day don't you know?

    In the company of wolves I sat in silence
    observant and afraid

    It was there with their eyes like glowing embers
    the man you see was made.

    ~Incubus~

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  147. @ManiaAzer

    People suffering from sadistic desires are most certainly low on the empathetic scale. Sadism is basically pleasure derived from inflicting harm on other humans. Normal Empaths do have consistent desires to do stuff like that, in fact even if they hurt someone by accident they make a big deal out of it.

    Sadism is usually a sign of a PD disorder, since a lack of empathy is almost necessary. Narcissism,sociopathy,psychopathy,BPD,ASPD are good candidates.

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  151. It's a sons by Incubus, and I believe he is saying that the wolves helped to shape him. What wolves? I can't really say for sure.

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  152. "Also when fishing I sometimes killed fish for fun."

    *FACEPALM*

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  154. The brain strives for equilibrium. It's no surprise that a person can possess both seemingly opposing extreme behaviours. Where there is intense emptiness, there must also be intense passion. Where there is intense selflessness, there must also be intense selfishness. Where there is intense pain, there must also be intense ecstacy. Where there is intense indifference, there must also be intense cruelty.

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  156. Someone rejecting your hello certainly tears you up inside. Give me a break. I couldn't give two shits about whether some random guy think I am worth his time. I work with people who do accept my hello.

    So you are one of those weird emotionally unstable people who act out and call it being a sociopath because you want to trick yourself into believing you are one of those cool guys on TV? You are lying to yourself.

    Dave, all these people are actual sociopaths. They don't come here to get people think they are cool. They are just the way they are. They have no interest in selling themselves, or giving you the credit that you want to yourself.

    You have no balls, if someone is rude to you, curse them out, don't just hold in your anger like a bitch.

    But what should I expect from someone who brags about sucking cock.

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  157. @Erin

    I agree with david:

    "I can't see the point of making someone suffer without any reason. Making someone suffer without any reason seems totally pointless and irrational to me, and I consider it a lack of self-control and thereby a weakness." (We have brushed on my need for control before.)

    However my reasons for causing suffering are likely a lot more lenient then what an empath may feel is a good cause for hurting someone.

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  161. Sociopath world has been taken over by attention whore erin pavlina and sodomite whore David. You have no shame erin. you've been exposed. go take care of your son, lose weight, find a man, and stop blogging every hour on the hour.

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  170. @Erin

    Didn't you spend the last few days calling David the "lowest of scum" etc. Is that how you treat all your friends?

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  172. David you said by your own word that it bothers you when people are rude to you, or don't return your hello. It shows that you do need people to recognize you. You even said that you have that narcissistic trait of yourself. You don't need to brag about prostituting yourself to analyze yourself.

    "Talking about 'selling oneself', have you seen how much efforts some make trying to make themself look as being the thoughest one around here, an be the master of some virtual world. It says a lot about their real lifes."

    Oh so now everyone else is the bad guy? You couldn't be one of the tough guys so now you are the humble one? You came here talking about some bullshit about you being some conman, asexual extraordinaire. Now that you are being attacked they are the evil bad guys right?

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  173. erin.... no one on here is your friend or anyone elses for that matter..... its a fucking site for sociopaths.... you are a really dumb woman.

    fact is sw is here for M.E.'s entertainment somehow we all fit into a game S/he is playing.... and its all good.

    I come here to see how others like me or similar to me live and cope with life. not to make friends get laid or find comfort... if your here for those reasons your a really fucked individual, ukan and i have never spoke, yet we have the most in common, i dont count him as a friend.... im not gonna call him for advice... i listen and learn.... and try my best to not be an internet warrior, so far the only person ive bothered to insult is erin, WHY? cause she seems so utterly lost and fake it brings out my desire to crush toys, like when i was six.

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  175. Kesu said:

    "You mean comprehensible. Don't harp on someones English then go and make a mistake in the very line where you knock them. It makes you look stupid. Specially when there is an automatic spell check on here."


    I believe the word you should have used is "especially".


    M.E wrote:

    "Interestingly, the author of this article (Grant Harris) was one of the researchers of the famed failed Social Therapy Unit at Oak Ridge from the 1960s-70s, through which we learned that having psychopaths sit around and talk about their feelings actually seems to make them worse, not better. Ha!

    A more accurate sentence or two might have been:

    "Interestingly, the author of this article (Grant Harris) was one of the researchers of the famed failed Social Therapy Unit at Oak Ridge from the 1960s-70s, through which we learned that having psychopaths sit around and talk about their feelings *naked, locked in a tight chamber, high on LSD, scopolamine and other drugs, (which had been shown to cause aggressivity) actually seems to make them worse, not better. Ha!

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  178. I think Erin is pushing the sadism questions a little bit too hard, you know, just whe TNP made a post about it... Everyone still in favor of TNP=Erin say 'aye'!

    Also; justabadpenny? It gets really annoying when you, not only don't use punctuation, but also use '...' instead of '.'. It makes you sound extremely monotonous and uninterested.

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  180. i am uninterested

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  181. @Pussy

    I love me some nice long ape cock.

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  182. I must say, you do seem more calm today Erin. If I could see you in person, I'd say you have a glow about you.

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  183. Don't wait until you're hungry to plant your garden. Sow now. Always be sowing.

    Erin;s Fb post today

    ERIN, It doesn't look like you wait til your hungry...ever...

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  185. @Eden

    I got a date for tonight :).

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  186. Did anyone else see what just happened? Wet posted:

    "@pussy

    I'd love me some long ape cock."

    And almost immedeately deleted it. Now Erin's posting the exact same thing. Someone has some explaining to do. ;)

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  188. @Erin

    Well look at you :)
    Getting out of the house then?

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  189. @Eden

    UKan promised to pay in full.

    We are going to the zoo to feed apes afterward.

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  190. oh erin..i mean elizabeth edwards,,.the game is up...we all now know who the real ape is...a date? only with your hibachi baby..

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  192. no, wet is impersonating erin

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  193. lol so you guys have finally set a first date! I can't wait to hear all about it.

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