Wednesday, July 6, 2011

Niche

As sort of a follow-up from the last post, I thought this article about finding jobs suitable for people with autism/asperger's (and the correspondingly more productive societal role) had some interesting implications for the usefulness of sociopaths in any given culture. A man talks about how he founded a company that specializes in finding specialties for auties, prompted by his own autistic son:
“If others could appreciate his skills and respect his special personality in a meaningful and productive job, then we could go to the grave with a good conscience.”
***
The idea for Specialisterne came to Sonne after he got involved with an autism support organization and met scores of people with Autism Spectrum Disorders (A.S.D.). There are large variations within this spectrum: it includes people who are significantly challenged as well as some who, on the surface, seem perfectly average and are often very intelligent. People with A.S.D. have problems imagining other people’s feelings and grasping social contexts; they struggle or may be unable to read social cues like facial expressions or sarcasm. They usually have narrowly defined interests, engage in repetitive behaviors, and are resistant to changes in routine. And they are highly sensitive to stress and vulnerable to depression.
***
“I think that everyone has resources that society can benefit from under the right circumstances,” explains Sonne. However, among those with high-functioning autism, he notes, it is easier to make this case. Sonne saw that Lars, at age 7, had an unusual aptitude for copying details from books by memory. Having spent years working in the field of information technology, he knew that the strengths that often come with A.S.D. — such as a talent for intense focus and concentration, an ability to recognize patterns, spot minute deviances and recall details, and a perseverance for repetitive tasks — could be advantages in jobs where consistency and accuracy are paramount. Software testing and data conversion and management were obvious examples.
***
Sonne calls it the “dandelion philosophy.” Depending on your point of view, a dandelion is either a valuable herb — a source of iron and vitamin A, with many medicinal qualities — or a weed that invades your garden. “A weed is a beautiful plant in an unwanted place,” he says. “An herb is the same plant where it is wanted. Who decides if something is a weed or an herb? Society does.”
Most parents of children with autism or asperger's do not like the lack of empathy comparisons between their children and sociopaths. I wonder if Sonne is really so willing to stand by his statement that everyone has resources that society can benefit from, including sociopaths. Maybe there should be a similar employment placement service for sociopaths...

165 comments:

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  2. I think the obvious choice would be funelling sociopaths into the governement......oh wait..

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  4. How did he get you Gretyl? Was it the sex or were you just at a low point in your life?

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  5. Rip(EVERYONE KNOWS RIP NOW)July 6, 2011 at 6:03 PM

    Still dead but might come back

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  6. I hope that damn witch eats you gretyl. If she doesn't I'd gladly cook you alive in an oven.

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  9. Steep edge of intimacy. Interesting you use that word. Do you have issues with intimacy.

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  11. Who was absent in your family?

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  14. If things are so much better why are you so bitter?

    UKan

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  16. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxkIGXVwZTM

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  17. Because I could tell you were projecting someone else on the rest of us.

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  19. why does sociapaths talk to them selfs all day

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  20. No people are all different

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  21. Bekauce noboedy else wanna listen mayby

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  24. I agree with putting auties to work and finding a place for them. What else are they good for? Might as well get some use out of 'em.

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  25. aspies are nowhere near as unempathetic as paths. Between the two, it's the manipulativeness. It changes the whole dynamic.

    Same for BPDs and paths.

    Sorry, SW... The stigma sticks like oil in your hands. It's hard to get rid of the stench.

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  26. Oh! Sex therapists! Sociopaths, not aspies.

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  27. Bpd

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0WHWUgigN8&NR

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  28. @AMoral ... It's like manipulation has its own spectrum. I fought the idea that I am a manipulative person for a very long time, because frankly, I viewed the term in a manner akin to socio and I'm not {generally} that kind of manipulative. However, as BPD, I'm learning just what kind of manipulation flows freely from myself without any effort. It's interesting to watch the spectrum unfold.


    As for the specific placement programs for auties. It's really like anyone else, you need to find the occupation that works best for you. Yeah, they have a 'disability' which just means they need to look in certain places... just like everyone else that isn't naturally inclined to math, or art, or people skills, or whatever.

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  29. What kind of manipulation do you borderlines use? Personally, i haven't found borderlines to be very manipulative.

    When a P or an N speak they are trying to sway the mindset of the audience in some way (change perceptions) when a borderline speaks you are more than likely getting the truth, am i right?

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  30. "When a P or an N speak they are trying to sway the mindset of the audience in some way (change perceptions)"

    Hence why we are successful politicians.

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  31. Beepers manipulate for attention. To get it, and to keep it... focused on us. In someways it doesn't even matter what your particular reaction to our methods are as long as we have your focus.

    Depending on how high funtioning the Borderline is we can use our, resources, to actually get things accomplished, but generally speaking it's often our end result is emotional manipulation.

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  32. I used to have a lot of BPD traits, but, was pretty aware of what I was doing - even felt proud about it...

    Wonder if that's common to other BPD's? The crash and burn theatrics, the poor defenseless cry baby, and make-up-and-then-get-what-you-want.

    It's really an ugly disorder.

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  33. can sociopaths develop psychosis?

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  34. BPDish I agree it really is ugly. Hence my trying to 'heal' from it. I'm aware of what I do completely. I have found that I am not the norm though as I am very High functioning. Most people are not so self-aware. Can't say I ever feel proud of what I do. At least, not generally.

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  35. Can't say I ever feel proud of what I do. At least, not generally.

    Really, Haven? Really really? Not even a little bit proud that you get your way?

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  36. I'd prefer to get my way because I'm right or because my ideas are valid, not because I've thrown a tantrum.

    I can be proud of myself for plenty of things. My lashing out however, is not something that makes me proud.

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  37. @Haven:
    Very nice input. I'm trying to wrap my head around BPD lately. Have been reading your blog now and then (not as much as I wanted b/c path knowledge consumes most of my reasearch time).

    About manipulation, BPDs seem to be much more about attention seeking, not in a very damaging way, not usually. Paths do want attention, but they're so bored they don't bother to go very far. It's much more about gaining control of their immediate vicinity (tends to be a small 'territory'; like I said, they bore easily, so maintenance has always to be high cost efficient). There are the outliers, of course.

    Or maybe it's me. Due to life experience, I'm well versed in dealing with manipulation. I not only had to deal with mind games in infancy, I'm now a caregiver. Dealing successfully with manipulation requires a mindset of its own (you know this all too well; you're one - I've seen - that swims with the sharks).

    So, fx, I simply can't give a shit when someone throws a cheap insult (paths and narcs do this by proxy in any debate - it's fucking hillarious). Carousing, otoh, I find so blatantly artificial I feel disgusted (environments such as lawyers' and high society parties'... oh, my, it's like a latrine covered in gift plastic). Sweet promises, false compromises, situational masks, fabricated truths, distorted facts, empty eyes and mouthfuls... I even had the opportunity to watch a sociopath in action from a secret pov.

    Well, enough about paths. I'll be paying your blog a visit any time soon to talk more about BPD.

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  38. Borderline pd's are just children that haven't grown up (no offence intended)

    Beepers aren't dangerous, whilst psychopaths are and their damage is widespread. The entire planet has been damaged by psychopathy. You can't compare the two, one is insignificant and can't even handle a breakup, the other is tyrannical and cold blooded.

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  39. I knew a girl that was diagnosed as borderline. She was a crafty fucking cunt. She would turn people against anyone with any kind of reputation by pulling cry baby shit. I remember she was crying and screaming at me because I told her I was pro abortion. I told her that they should have a system like china did with the whole one baby a family to stem overpopulation. She kept it in till I was chatting it up with her lady friends. All of a sudden she exploded into tears hysterically talking about some baby she miscarried and how I didn't know and wont ever know what its like to carry a child. So fucking what. I don't want to know.
    She went to some guy we had giving us money from his pension and told hin we were using him. She had some ex girlfriend of mine speaking against me to my supporters during my trial. I'm not a big fan of fucking beepers.

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  40. @zhawq
    do you not learn from your mistakes?

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  41. When nobody wanted her around anymore she came back and said she was in therapy and they diagnosed her as a borderline. I didn't give a shit what that meant back then. She was a toxic person in my book.

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  42. Why didn't you put the fear of god into her?

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  43. Throwing tantrums is no way to get what you want. Not in my experience. People just see you as a raving lunatic to avoid or restrain. So i don't agree that it's an effective form of manipulation. As an expression of frustration, yes. But, no, just no.

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  44. "Throwing tantrums is no way to get what you want. Not in my experience. People just see you as a raving lunatic to avoid or restrain. So i don't agree that it's an effective form of manipulation."

    It's more difficult to get others to do your bidding without forcing them using anger, otherwise it takes much longer.

    Why does the spoiled childs mother never tell her no? It's because she fears the child will throw another tantrum.

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  45. Ukan, anyone who isn't afraid to speak out about shit is good in my eyes. Crazy, maybe, but by god, they make things happen. I would love to expose you like that Ukan. ;)

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  46. This is an excellent example of how psychopaths manipulate.

    Mom, Dad and their children are having dinner on a Wednesday night. Dad is snappy and irritable, criticizing everybody during the meal, spreading his tension around like electricity. When he finishes eating, he leaves the table abruptly and heads out of the room. His ten-year-old daughter says. “Dad, where are you going? Wednesday is your night to wash the dishes.“ Upon hearing these words, Dad bursts into flames, screaming, “You upstart little shit, don’t you dare try to tell me what to do! You’ll be wearing a dish on your face!” He grabs a plate off the table, makes like he is going to throw it at her, and then turns away and smashes it on the floor. He knocks a chair over with his hand and storms out of the room. Mom and the children are left trembling, the daughter bursts into tears. Dad reappears in the doorway and yells that she’d better shut up, so she chokes off her tears, which causes her to shake even more violently. Without touching a soul, Dad has sent painful shock waves through the entire family. We move ahead now to the following Wednesday. Dinner passes fairly normally, without the previous week’s tension, but Dad still strolls out of the kitchen when he finishes eating. Does a family member remind him that it’s his turn to wash the dishes? Of course not. It will be many, many months before anyone makes that mistake again. … Dad’s scary behaviour has created a context in which he won’t have to do the dishes anytime he doesn’t feel like it, and no one will dare take him to task for it. … The abusive man gains power.”
    Why Does He Do That?

    - Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, Lundy Bancroft

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  47. crazy people are more dangerous than psychopaths. one crazy dude watched some violent movie and then went out and stabbed five people. when he got put in the luney bin, he chewed through his wrist right down to the bone lol.

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  48. that's not manipulation, that's raw crazyness. that dude is a certifiable maniac.

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  49. Anonymous said... July 7, 2011 5:09 PM

    Violence works fast and effective but there are long term side effects. Better to be more subtle.

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  50. "Violence works fast and effective but there are long term side effects. Better to be more subtle."

    Psychopaths are impulsive and cannot plan ahead, as are all cluster b's.

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  51. This is not a sociopath blog. The society that has created itself here is exactly the society out in the real world. It can't be otherwise given the fact that most of the people posting here out themselves as sociopaths and talk about it so passionately. I don't understand why do those guys that can't even write at a toddler level even post, that is embarrassing for the whole society. The IQ of the population here doesn't stand up much. You're all a bunch of idiots. The people here talk for the same reasons they talk in real life, the same reasons 96 percent of the population talks for. To masturbate mentally about other people's personality. This is shameful and worthy of pity. The people that out themselves as sociopaths around here are the people that have screwed up so badly in real life that they need an excuse for themselves so that they don't loathe themselves as much. I doubt that what I write will even be taken account for because I can clearly see how this could go all and near-miss you, maybe for the reason that it is too much written text for your petty little brains to read or maybe you are just so invested in never loathing yourselves for your pathetic failure that you will think that I am just another troll looking to hurt people around here cause I don't have a high enough self esteem.

    This is my statement for you stupid idiots. You should spend a day or two inside the house without TV or internet and with the lights off and think about your lives. I am certain that three quarters of you idiots will start apologizing after this to all the people you know. And the rest will keep posting here cause they are so deep in this shit that only a lobotomy can restore them to their 'natural' selves.

    You fucking morons.

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  52. Shut up, ME. You uptight asshole. Stop your condescending.

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  53. I’m inclined to agree with Ukan. We can be manipulative fuckers if we need to be. I’ve gotten myself into big enough messes and used by ‘mental instability’ as leeway to get myself out of some pretty big trouble. I can twist it to not only alleviate the blame from myself but also warrant sympathy from the person I’ve offended or injured, then have them turn to ‘help me get what I REALLY need’. Whatever it is that I’ve come up with. I try not to do that too often. Cry wolf enough and people stop believing you. Which is simply an ineffective way to function. Not that it’s something I’m proud of, but it’s not difficult to do when you are self-aware enough to understand your own motives.

    Beepers aren’t harmless. We may not be perceived as socially harmful like P/S types but I’m sure you could find plenty of individuals who would say that we were just as devastating on a personal level. Again, I’m not proud of the unjurious behavior that we can be prone too, but it’s a real problem. If it weren’t there wouldn’t be so many that believe our problem should be fixed or healed; including myself.

    Maybe the main difference is that we cause as much harm to ourselves as we do to others. And frankly, it sucks.

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  54. @Amoral… well anything you want to know I can probably point you to some insightful anectodes. Fucking PD.

    Yes, BPD manipulation is much more attention seeking. Specifically because we don’t want to be left alone or abandoned. I’ve done some pretty stupid shit to keep people from leaving, despite the fact that I didn’t even like them until they were leaving. It makes no sense sometimes which is probably why we have a reputation for being loose canons. There’s often no warning or no rational reason to what we do so we’re seen as unpredictable.

    Being bored is the worst thing ever. When I get bored my desire for attention increases 10 fold and I’m likely to do more to draw attention, not lose interest and do less. ‘Control over their immediate vicinity’… hm, there’s something to that which I want to think on. Often things boil down to a need for control with BPD except our emotional control is so lacking we can’t get a handle on the thing we really want. Control. Interesting.

    You’re right though. Dealing successfully with manipulation does require it’s own mindset. Amusingly, being on the receiving end of some pretty tragic manipulation, I feel like it equipped me better to deal with it in the future… and utilize it. I guess not all bad things are tragic as long as you learn from it.

    Glad to have you around =)

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  55. BPDs know what they're doing. Can't get enough attention and sympathy, next minute they're clubbing you for being 3 minutes late home.

    Psychos.

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  56. They make horrible mothers too. Nothing more pathetic seeing a 2-year-old behave better than a raging BPD throwing punches, threatening to leave, self-harming, crying and begging to be understood.

    Sex is fun. Just don't get them knocked up.

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  57. Yeah, I wonder too, if he'd be quite so progressive thinking if the word Sociopaths was mentioned.

    Funny detail about the sarcasm. I've always had a very easy time understanding sarcasm, and even irony. But with irony I'm just not very good at finding it funny the way those who are ironic finds their lines funny.

    Come to think of it, I believe my aspie friend actually may have this issue with irony, and definitely with sarcasm. I used to think he didn't have humor, but once I got to know him better I found he had humor about certain things. I just had to find the right kind of topic and help him to be in the right kind of mood.

    I'm not sure if I believe in the idea about having special kinds of work for sociopaths, M.E. Sociopaths are not very interested in being "part" of society. How would you solve that problem?

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  58. Gretyl
    "I let him have me. For the experience, being a risk-taker, wanting to see how far the rabbit-hole went down... and honestly, not knowing what I wanted; how to go about getting what I wanted."

    And now you hate sociopaths? Hmm... Seems you got what you was seeking, and you could've learned a lot, but instead you became bitter. It was hard for you, digging your way back up and regaining a sense of self respect.

    But along the way you bought the newest fad: It's not your fault, it's all his fault!"

    Sad.

    The idea with the military isn't new. If we're talking about psychopaths it doesn't work well, generally speaking. BUt there may be other reasons for that. I have to go... Maybe next time.

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  61. "Engineers are all basically high-functioning autistics who have no idea how normal people do stuff."
    -Cory Doctorow

    Seems like auties already have their niche, as I'm inclined to agree with that above comment with a 7% margin of error. Engineers are great at getting 'things' to work, yet have little handle on how their items, software, hardware, or otherwise, actually are going to need to be used. It's why designers should design products, not engineers.

    As far as sociopaths go, quite frankly I think intelligence and counter-intelligence would be our niche in regards to legal work.

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  62. "As far as sociopaths go, quite frankly I think intelligence and counter-intelligence would be our niche in regards to legal work."

    Socio CIA. UNBEATABLE! Of course there would be a lot treason going on. Nothing works better than a double agent working for his pocket only.

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  63. Sociopaths are capable of keeping steady jobs?

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  64. Um, How do I shot webs

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  65. Capable? Yes. Likely? No.

    Treason? Not really. Do you have any idea how hard it is to commit treason in America, let alone be convicted of it? Very hard. You'd pretty much have to be literally killing your own people for that to happen. Betrayal on the other hand, oh yes, definitely. However, petty betrayals and major betrayals would obviously differ given the circumstances and hungers of said sociopath.

    Greed is a human universal, and when you work with top of the line surveillance teams and double agents, you're probably going to be extra careful of the tracks you leave behind when pursuing a selfish need.

    As far as sociopaths being in the CIA, I would hazard to guess that most of their top agents are. They would have to be, or at least something very close.

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  66. Psychopaths are cowards, you people only pick on the weak.

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  67. How noble of you. Sociopaths are just like nature and nature destroys the weak. Sociopaths have low capacity for fear thays why they do all the things you wouldnt. You are simple. One of those pick on people your own size, fair fights, and people who make fun of you are trying to make themselves feel bigger. Here's the reality you fucking care bear: the weak serve at the leisure of the strong and the weak are to cowardly to stand up for themselves people like you are to cowardly to stand up for the weak so we use and abuse them. At the end of the day the strong thrive, the mediocre survive, and the weak perish. Its that way in every animal kingdom don't think you are above the law.

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  68. Gretyl sees right through you Zwaq. I knew you were a fat fucking sausage.

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  69. I don't understand; there are PLENTY of jobs available to sociopaths right now in real life. Lemme see...
    hitman, employee of government to run errands that 'normal people' would find unsavoury, banking, muzak makers, the person who decided that there must be a set number of French Fries in your McDdonalds, producers of Bryan Adams records. Do you REALLY think these people have a conscience?!

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  70. hi hi,, please act in response to me,, i take any act in response at me all,, i not care,, i bad man,, i very bad man,,, please to response to me now,,

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  71. A response at last!

    Finally, someone reacts to me!

    I was just about to wheel out my disembowelment stories but will save them for another day.

    Thank you, Anon :D

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  72. ""Engineers are all basically high-functioning autistics who have no idea how normal people do stuff."
    -Cory Doctorow

    Seems like auties already have their niche, as I'm inclined to agree with that above comment with a 7% margin of error. Engineers are great at getting 'things' to work, yet have little handle on how their items, software, hardware, or otherwise, actually are going to need to be used. It's why designers should design products, not engineers."

    This. Does not make an incredible amount of sense. Just because you have an idea (inventor/designer) does not mean it's going to work. Engineers know the physics and mechanics of things, hence allowing them to take the base idea and make it functional. Ideally they should work in conjunction.

    Then you have people like me who are structural/design engineers. Btw, I'm not autistic. Of course, I also don't work on things that any lay person will ever see or could probably understand, so take that as you will.

    We don't particularly care how normal people do stuff as normal people are basically morons that don't have any clue how mechanics function. Having an idea, does not mean it will work. Engineers take those ideas and arrange them in a way so they will actually function in the real world, not just some designers imagination. We also need to deal with something called efficiency and production. There has to be a balance of functionality vs cost vs time. If the cost exceeds the return then there's no real benefit in the production of it. If you have limitless funds to throw at something, of course you could make pretty much anything to the ideal specification of your average moron. Unfortunately economics and mechanics don't work that way in general.

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  73. Real designers aren't people who magic ideas up, throw them at engineers and collect a paycheck. I don't know what kind of shitty designers you've been working with...

    Good designers have knowledge of all the things you listed that are essential for a functional, efficient and profitable product, that's part of the design!

    To design something, you need to know all of those issues before you should even consider forwarding it your engineers.

    However, your jaded reply shows two trends that unfortunately leads to sub-par products. Engineers doing all the design work, and designers doing a shitty job and forcing the engineers to do most of the design work. These aren't as uncommon as I wish they were.

    Making a product that is cost efficient doesn't mean much if your target audience needs to check a manual for most of its functions or reach a call center.

    Now that's poor design.

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  74. Cont:

    And it stems from a common sort of tunnel vision that I noticed in school when I was taking electronic engineering courses. Often times people get a task with an expected result, and they will do that task until they get the result that is needed, but they won't question why they needed to get that result.

    The same goes for many products, software especially, to where you get a product that can do something that is needed, but the structure or presentation is horrible and barely usable by someone who has not been previously acquainted with the sorry excuse of a functional design. That's why there are so many patches, apps to modify existing software/OS, et cetera, because some engineering team was given a task and only cared about getting the end result and didn't take into consideration the fact that people have to actually use their fucking product.

    /rant

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  75. I abhor reading instruction manuals.

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  76. Is Socio Jack around?

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  78. omg!!! i have been stalked on this website for aaages by a crazy lady who is very nosy where is a moderator when you need one can one block her now!! i have told her to get lost but she only goes away for a little while and then she comes back and types wierd messages and i want her to stop following me because i do NOT want my bunny boiled!!.

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  79. "the person who decided that there must be a set number of French Fries in your McDdonalds...Do you REALLY think these people have a conscience?!"

    I lawled.

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  80. How do you get stalked when you anon?

    Bunny boiled is that referance to fatal attraction movie?

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  82. Kesu, are you really questioning whether there's sociopathy or not?

    As an outsider looking in several things are very much in common with the one I know and poster's on this blog that are in no way like neurotypical's.

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  83. I like your website. And, I'm no bunny boiler!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  85. Honestly... Yeah a little. There are just to many other disorders that can make you amoral, no regret, etc. Then there are too many ways for sociopathy to be expressed. Don't get me wrong. Whether the people here want to admit it or not we all think very similarly. Even the ones that aren't P/S. Maybe that is why we were all drawn here but whatever really. The fact that there is no treatment that is actually affective and that little research is being done on the disease says something. I mean if we really are the destroyers of the world one would think that a large portion of the research would be focused on us. Next comes the problem of most of the research in jails. Jails are a hotbed for the genetically disrupted. At one time they thought that 70% of the(Male) prison population would have fragile X. Well turns out they were wrong. Now it is psychopaths who are supposedly making up a majority of that population. Also prisons are made of a lot of people who were/are poverty stricken. You want a reason to kill, steal, etc, go hungry for a week. Bet you will start clawing at your neighbors to get some food then and one crime justifies another. You do an act repeatedly it loses meaning and any impact. The first time a solider kills someone it is a shocking experience. The 20th time they do it it has become meaningless and produces very little feeling. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't exist in totality but I am saying I don't think it is a stand alone disorder. In saying all of this though if I was asked to endorse the idea fully I couldn't and wouldn't at present point. It is simply a theory for me that would explains some of the gaps that there are.

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  86. @TNP... I have worked with some shitty designers. I appreciate your rant. Cheers.

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  87. I see a very wide spectrum to the socio's on this blog and the one I know.
    Mine is not highly intellegent with book smarts but has alot of pride in the job he does, which is physical and he's a foreman.

    He loves control and power over indivisuals. I believe he's set up strict standards for himself to stay out of trouble.

    But there is one thing they found helpful with sociopathy and thats them talking in groups without someone in charge. This blog would be an example.

    And they have found the difference in the frontal lobe.

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  88. Probably, there are a few sociopaths with differences in the frontal lobe, but with others, lifelong reasons and circumstances causing disassociation and antisocial behavior.

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  89. Small Young rabbit (1 1/2 to 2 pounds ready to cook)
    Cut into serving pieces.
    Flour, salt, pepper
    Cooking fat or oil

    Roll rabbit in mixture of flour, salt and pepper. Heat fat or oil about 1/4 inch deep in a heavy fry pan large enough to hold the pieces without crowding.

    Use moderate heat for frying. Put in the large meaty pieces of rabbit first and cook about 10 min. before adding the smaller pieces and giblets. Turn the pieces often for even cooking and cook until well browned and tender. (30 to 35 min. total time). 3 to 4 servings

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  90. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO4Xe17Dg2Y

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  91. They've found lots and lots of things different. Inactive spots of the brain processing differently etc. Quick idea though. You can find those things in other disorders as well. Hell in Bi-polar people they have actually found brain tissue loss(this has no effect on IQ though). If you stress the brain long enough you get disturbances in it. Things start to breakdown. Many of us don't feel stress. At least not like most people feel it. Also with limited emotions the brain can't work through emotional trauma. Emotions get stored in the Limbic system. When a person has limited emotions a cognitive part of the brain gets activated when the person deals with an emotion. So the emotion is never actually dealt with(On an emotional level) and stays in the Limbic system. That is a big stress-er. This is why S/P don't seem to react to emotional stimuli like normal people. It is also the reason for cold anger.

    The wide spectrum is what I am talking about when I say it can be expressed in so many ways. Traits are on and off in the people who inhabit this blog like a series of circuit breakers. Yet no matter what breaker is on or off the energy travels to the same place. I think though that the people who come here exhibit a very limited selection of sociopathic traits. I mean that the spectrum is much larger than what is shown on this forum. Truth be told most of the regulars here have higher than average IQs for sure. Does this taint what we see? I have no clue. The most predominate trait on this blog though is hyper-criticalness. It isn't hard to see and is shown very constantly by a few but it is there in everyone of the people who call themselves S/P with one exception. It is also a sign of general irritability AKA it makes them hostile very easily. Now all of those symptoms can be attributed to depression. What if their brain was in a depression but they didn't feel it? Depression(Mania as well) can change brain chemistry. I have more but I'm going to stop here.

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  92. I like rolling around in flour sometimes.

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  93. Science cannot explain psychopathy.

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  94. Psychopathy is a label given to justify an evil asshole.

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  95. @Bunny: You're awesome.

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  96. Question for the sociopaths:

    Have any of you ever wanted to hunt animals down and torture them? After watching the documentary above i can't help but ask, would you get satisfaction from torturing the beloved pets of these owners, then posing the animals corpse near the owners home?

    Wouldn't that make you feel excited about how much infamy and attention you would receive?

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  97. ok, this is kinda complex, but doesn't the awareness of the condition that you self proclaimed sociopaths claim to have actually contradict your very(supposed)condition? awareness of your condition suggests empathy, as in, you are able to recognize how others view you and how your behaviour effects others, yes? i thought that part of what enables sociopaths to hurt others without feelings of regret or remorse, is the fact that they can't understand how their behaviour impacts on others. so, wouldn't awareness of your condition defy the very nature of the condition?

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  98. Most of the time sociopaths know they hurt others, they just don't care. Sociopaths take pride in their cold bloodedness and see sentimental people as weak or as targets.

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  99. Get off it Gretyl you fucking cunt. This martyrism you are parading around with is pathetic. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum has not been fucked with. The one who gets picked on the most is Not Able Path, and he certainly is no women. So take all that man hating shit to lovefraud.com. Here you will get no pity.

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  100. Sometimes I can understand why my actions might harm others so mabye that is a little bit of empathy(or mabye it's just intelligence). But unless I'm actually trying to hurt somebody, I have to think things through to figure out exactly what impact my actions will have. Even when I do that I still don't care enough about the people in harms way to stop myself. I do only care about myself and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Anything not involving me is irrelevant. Most of(or mabye all of) the people here aren't diagnosed though, so truth being told alot of the stuff that we believe about ourselves could be pure shit. In my case I just realised one day that my behaviour and thought process is very sociopathic. I'll never know exactly because I've always avoided all kinds of evaluation. You never know how long they might lock you up for or how they might treat you if they find something to be "seriously wrong" with you.

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  101. @misanthrope. you are paranoid.

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  102. I personally think killing someones pets for attention is juveneille and I don't want any attention from my neighbors.

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  103. 'Most of(or mabye all of) the people here aren't diagnosed though, so truth being told alot of the stuff that we believe about ourselves could be pure shit.'

    i like how you understand that...i think that the one's cling so tightly to their precious label are ones who are most likely the wannabe's, as they're called. i'm still very confused about wether or not a sociopath can be aware of their condition, i don't know if it's possible or not.

    all said and done, sociopathy isn't a very well understood condition.

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  104. I'd rather be paranoid than fucked over for the rest of my life. Paranoia is a good defence as long as it doesn't get out of control. I'm always suspicious other people and some times you have to attack before the other guy gets a chance. You can't always wait until people cross the line before you do something about them. I used to drown cats and set mice on fire and stuff. I don't know if I did it out of sadism or curiosity. I think it's strange that when I was little I would attack other people when I was angry, but I was always calm when I did things to animals. I guess they were kind of like practice or something.

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  105. @Misanthrope.

    Relax. I was just suggesting on the checklist, you certainly check the box for paranoia.

    Power over pets, little one. Presumably you enjoyed these serial executions?

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  106. What is often perceived as paranoia is in truth hyper-vigilance.

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  107. @kesu Thanks for defining paranoia. Care to define sadism?

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  108. Yes I did but after a while it just trailed off and I stopped. Most things feel pointless after you've done them for long enough. The funny thing is that had dogs when I was younger. I never really mistreated them apart from the occasional kick or punch. It was other people's pets or other animals in general that I targeted. I started to enjoy forcing other children to do things against their will. Like I'd force two children kiss or I'd make the "good kids" smoke or steal for me. Or I'd just mug and beat them. I think all I understood was force back then. I hardly cared about subtly.

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  109. How do I shot webs

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  111. @anon I wasn't defining paranoia. Just remarking that what Rope has sounds less like paranoia and more like hyper-vigilance.

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  112. were all the 'paths here poor during childhood?

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  113. I've thought that boredom might actually be depression in some.

    You said Kesu that you are bi-polar so I am assuming you've seen a dr. for it. And I'm assuming you haven't brought up any of the traits you have that led you to believe you have sociopathy.

    Any of the treatment for bi-polar help?

    I would think it doesn't.

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  114. were all the 'paths here abused during childhood?

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  115. When I was put on the medication and my emotions came back online I just got rage. That is all I felt. Tons of rage. They wanted to put me on good sized doses of lithium. They were talking about others if that didn't work.

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  116. @kesu: Too bad. I thought hyper- vigilance was a better definition. You're right of course, you didn't define paranoia, but you probably do inspire it.

    Argh. keep the mania.

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  117. I don't think there needs to be an organization to help sociopaths find jobs.

    Its not like their judgement is impaired.

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  118. "What if their brain was in a depression but they didn't feel it?"

    This in me (I'm bipolar) sometimes is what's consider a "mixed state". It's just plain blah with a bunch of irritation. The irritation feels less like depression because it "feels" more active. In a way, it's preferable because it's less painful. It's just spinning wheels.

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  119. I was poor and had a rough childhood, but in the end I came out on top. Still everyhing might come crashing down at a moments notice. I think I prefer it like that. At least that's what my wife says. I tell her that one day I will have a legitimate career, but I haven't had a legitimate job for more than a year.
    I love it misanthrope, bout the good kids you were talking about. I used to have kids setting fires everywhere till they all eventually got caught. They wanted to be like me and since they were the kids that the rest of the school ignored they were easy to motivate. Two of them got arrested for burning down a store that I had told them I wanted to burn down several times. I didn't tell then to do it, they just wanted to impress me. This other kid tried to copycat me burning trash cans and the bathroom. He got caught and expelled. My probation officer at the time thought I was behind the incidents because one of the kids in the store fire tried to snitch on me and saynig was my idea. I denied it and he believed me despite the fact I was on probation for detonating a explosive in my backyard.

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  120. There are many of sociopaths who know they are sociopaths not limited to this forum. Not including the programs they have for sociopathic criminals in jail I can say I ran into a couple out hear that came out and said it after they were diagnosed inside. Empathy has to do with other people, the lack of that does not inhibit introspection. Look at Sam Vankin.

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  121. The good kids were wierd because I'd barely have to anything to them to get them to do what I wanted. They weren't the types who willingly imitated me though. It was the fucked up kids who had no friends(like you said)who would actually try to impress and copy me. I used to make them think I was their friend and then act more and more uninterested so that they'd try to win my approval. I think they just wanted to fit in with somebody and they thought it could be me. I just wanted to fuck them about though. Those kids were like the fall guys. I'd send guys like that in first when I was burgling houses. One guy wouldn't even watch tv without his mothers permission but he had an arrest record after he met me.

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  122. Ha ha. You get it. I called them crash dummies. Its funny how life evolves when your older. I have the same types around today running into walls. Now its more complex and the games are for keeps. There's so many people out there to try to bring down winners you have to have people block them off for you or you'd spend all your time squishing cockroaches.

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  123. My family was poor when I was born but by the time I reached my teens we had more money but we still weren't that well off. I wouldn't say I was horribly abused but I got beaten fairly often and I never felt that close to my family or even liked them. My parents put locks on my bedroom door and would sometimes keep in there when I got out of control and violent. When I was in my late teens I flipped things around and terrorised my parents Until they threatened to get the police involved if I didn't leave. So I left because I'd already taken enough shit from the police by then for all of my crimes.

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  124. "Crash dummies" Lol I like that. I feel like people like that are waiting for me to pick them up and use them. They'll walk blindly into any situation just because you tell them to heh.

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  125. That's what I told my wife. She used to feel sorry for them. I told her that these people serve no purpose in the world, but to be used by people like me. They should be thankful that someone finally came into their lives and used them. They now have purpose. After seeing first hand for a year how pathetic these people are even she couldn't disagree.

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  126. Interesting stuff.

    When holding out the bait, did you lure them into being your bitch by impressing them with stories of your exploits?

    I find that Alphas try to get the betas interest by latching onto their insecurity and need for acceptance. Most betas are needy and want to act out. So the alpha takes advantage of this and gives the impression that they are some vigilante badass that needs a partner. Never fails. The beta never sees what is coming.

    This is just from my observations.

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  127. My dad beat me till I was fifteen. I smashed a chair over his back and permnanently injured it since he had a bad back at the time. I left home end of story. He told me he would beat me till one day I beat him up. He was raised the same. I got him the minute i knew i could take him. He was right that it would make me stronger.
    My house was all about manipulation and control. There was so much control and restriction that everyone was lieing and manipulating each other. My father used divide and conquer tactics by using threats of collective punishment to get my brothers or my mum to tell him who broke rules. I never squealed, but some of them did sometimes so it was hard to know who to trust. My father was a crafty bastard, but I can say now that I am way craftier than he will ever be. Believe or not I get along with the old bastard today. We made amends when I was in prison.

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  128. Jason I don do anything special at all. These peopke literally jump out and line up to be used. Its almost a phenomenon.

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  130. Makes sense.

    Needy people look to more stable people when they are feeling bad.

    Look at hitler. Germany was in a depression and everyone needed someone to magically fix everything.People practically threw themselves at him.

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  131. My dad stopped beating me when I was 14 because I was already about half a head taller them him then and I was out of his control. I attacked him when I was 16 and it felt like best thing ever. I started fucking about in the kitchen smashing shit up to get his attention. When he came down stairs I just stated punching him over and over again. From then on things started going my way in the household. But When I was 17 I poured petrol outside of their bedroom and try'd to light it after we had an argument. That was when they threatened to call the police if I didn't leave. I hardly cared because I knew it was coming so I just moved in with my girlfriend for a while and then so on so on.

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  132. Your girlfriend?

    Don't you mean your human blow doll?

    How did she react when she figured out she was being used for room, board, and fuxing.

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  133. UKan, do you not boil up sometimes when you are in the company of your father? Sometimes i can fly into a rage out of nowhere when i am around a person that underestimated me in the past, i can't get over that shit.

    I just think to myself how could this weasel stand against me.

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  134. You remind of the wierd kids who I used as "crash dummies" jason. How old are you?

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  135. @misanthrope

    18.

    And how so?

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  136. You're only 18? That makes sense, kid. You've got this sick desperation in everything you write. Kind like you want to be liked but you know it's not going to happen so you just say stupid shit instead for attention. I still remember all that kinky sex shit you were going on about.

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  137. Ha ha he is ready to go Thrope.

    I get in rages all the time around him. Everyone in my household has a superiorty complex now. Even my mum. Except she submits to my father. Everyone else to her is a fool.
    They are fucking idiots in reality. They believe in myths and lies as facts and think school is for idiots. Closed minded lot they are.

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  138. Yeah.

    I am a lot more confident now then back then.

    I could be liked here if I wanted to but that's not my goal. I just like bouncing ideas and analyzing shit.

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  139. Jason is he product of the child that didn't beat up his father. Forever subjected by the cruel. If I were you Jason id hit that old fuck in the jaw when he's not looking. At least you can reclaim your life.

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  140. @UKan

    Lol not really.I have been relatively happy.

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  141. ahh, there are some moments in my little bobbie's life that i can hardly wait to see. his first birthday, his first bike ride, his first day at school, the first time he mercilessly beats his father to pulp in the kitchen or brutally bludgeon's him with a chair.........

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  142. Yes and bobbies first kill. To bad you wont be around to see that one eh?

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  143. LOL@everything above.

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  144. I like alpha males. And, carrots.

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  145. @Kesu:
    "Truth be told most of the regulars here have higher than average IQs for sure."


    Yeah, from what I gather people here are definitely outise the average in many respects. Sociopaths reading articles, having their own theories, formulating arguments and exchanging knowledge? Definitely not the typical scenario.

    I see this cluster community as a peculiar sample of the world out there.

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  146. "formulating arguments and exchanging knowledge? Definitely not the typical scenario"

    When have you seen all this? All i see here is power games.

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  147. Your analogy of the dandelion is interesting but incomplete. We need to weigh the cost / benefit of the dandelion to individuals and society in general. Some people find the dandelion useful as an herb, but in limited scope and containment. Many more people see the dandelion as a nuisance. It is enough to rid them from out immediate surroundings, but not enough to spend enormous resources on totally eradicating them from the planet. I think a better analogy would be tigers. I think that we can assume that tigers have little or no empathy for humans as prey. Human society finds tigers are interesting and amusing either in captivity in the zoo, or as a subject of study in the wild. As long as the tigers are not a threat to humans, we let them exist in our environment. However, if you let a tiger loose in the streets of NYC, substantial resources would be expended to remove it from the immediate environment. Similar for a psychopath / sociopath. If a P/S in not a threat to me in my environment, I would have no objection to a live and let live philosophy.

    -- Enlghtenment

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  148. RRRAAWWRRR! *tips top hat*

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  149. Oh, you poor, poor poppet - look, you've made me dab my eyes. The learning disabled post is the previous one, dear, you'll find other 'lions' there.

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  150. @Anonymous 2:37 AM
    LOL- Are you pretending to be a threat, a nuisance, or are you just off to see the wizard?

    -- Enlightenment

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  151. @AmoralBing
    I see this cluster community as a group of old "Dungeons and Dragons" players who lost their makeshift swords. They come here for entertainment by role playing socio/psychopaths.

    -- Enlightenment

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  152. Oh, I'm sure many sociopaths play D&D. That's some heavy shit.

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  153. Who likes D&D? I like strip poker.

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  154. got out of control, quick. The appeal wears off... the steep edge of intimacy with a socio is a very real and disillusioning. At least for an empath. The end.

    July 6, 2011 6:22 PM

    What does this mean Gretyl
    The steep edge of intimacy?

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