Saturday, April 16, 2011

The cruel aspie

I have a particularly hostile and clueless aspie in my worklife. Although I found his machinations incredibly annoying, I didn't react in the emotional way that he seemed to be expecting. This made the aspie try harder to be cruel at first, thinking perhaps that he just wasn't pressing the right buttons to send me over the edge. When I continued to react with apathy to his insults and played his games back on him until I got the upperhand, he began playing the victim, although not credibly because of the papertrail he left that I had the foresight to maintain. The weird thing about this sudden shift to the victim role is that I think he actually believes that he is the victim. In fact, he is the one that I tweeted about who vehemently complained that he was "a decent human being" (which he most certainly is not) and as such does not "deserve to be treated this way" (which he most certainly does).

This interpersonal "drama" is why I found this email from an aspie reader particularly interesting, both for the parallels (particularly a proneness to callous manipulation and self-deception) and the differences (whatever the relevant psychologist thinks they may be):
When I was 7 I was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome.

Until recently I had not realised that I was as cruel of a person as I see I am now in retrospect.

Whilst growing up I would physically attack my brother until he started to bleed, and when he did my only thoughts were for myself that I might get caught.

I manipulated people and lied to get more money from my mother (my parents divorced when I was age 6). I am no longer violent, But I am extremely emotionally manipulative and I still lie regularly without realising it.

After breaking up with my (now ex) girlfriend, she made me realise these things about myself. When I was with her, despite feeling that I should love her, I treated her with spite and coldness. When she would ask me to proofread her writing I would tell her I found the style boring and that I was astounded she received good marks for something so poorly constructed. I was contemptuously jealous of her ability to write so well. I would treat her like an unintelligent child when we debated and when she cried herself to sleep telling me of how her father never showed her any affection and was utterly self obsessed, I did not react. I saw such a time as merely an opportunity to become closer to her, gain more of her trust. I do not feel remorse for these actions although I do miss her affection and wish I had not been so cruel if only so she'd still be with me.

I told her that I suspected I was a sociopath and could not love her. I thought my honesty would be welcomed and she could help me become a better person. She left instead.

This was kinda crushing, not that I did love her, but because I was dependant on her to support me emotionally. I thrive on being loved, but as I am such an obliviously callous person (which I only realised recently) people find it difficult to love me. I also tend to discard people when they outlive their usefulness.

I was doing research on the subject to confirm my suspicion when I came across your blog. It seems as though my situation is congruent with the diagnosis, so I went to see a psychologist to find out if I could get help. I explained my childhood diagnosis and the psych seemed absolutely sure that I am not a sociopath and that I in fact do have aspergers syndrome.

She explained what Aspergers syndrome entails and how it fits my queries just as well as sociopathy, even slightly better.

I then came across a post on your blog about the difference in perception between "aspies" and sociopaths ("soc's"[SO-shez]). It occurred to me that even though I am perceived as a harmless, socially awkward, 'genius', I am just as bad if not worse than people who's correct diagnosis would label them as 'serial killers' or 'child molesters' what have you.

This is really just plain wrong. I would like to talk further with you and help in anyway I can with this issue of inequality of public perception. Having read so much it is clear to me that aspergers and sociopathy are similar disorders and poisonous associations in wider society will just continue to perpetuate themselves with books such as "the sociopath next door", and "the snakes in suits." It sickens me that you would be treated as a monster when I am treated with respect for essentially very similar neurological disorders.
So there you have it: tell a girl you're a sociopath and get broken up with, tell a girl you're an aspie and maybe get some pity sex.

53 comments:

  1. Sometimes I'm oblivious to how callous I am. Actually, pretty often to be more realistic. I usually realize it after I've said something, much to my chagrin.

    Yeah, I don't think telling your gf/bf that you think you are a sociopath has, or ever will, be a good move. If they don't know what it is (other than vague media/tv references) then they think you are a killer. If they do know what it is, they realize you have no compassion, and that the most the two of you can enjoy is a puddle-deep bond that only thrives on the chemical cocktail the brain emits as 'love'. Basically, obsession.

    M.E. if this fool thinks he is the victim, give him a reason to be. And use some flair while you're at it. Have fun, mate ;)

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  2. If you tell people you are a sociopath, they'll think you are nuts.

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  3. why are there so many posts about aspies? something is suspicious, the only person who'd care that much about aspies would be an aspie.

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    1. I think there is a correlation. Sometimes I think Sociopaths are on the spectrum with Aspies but they have even shallower emotions and must learn to read and manipulate people even better than Aspies. Or sociopaths could be on the spectrum but be social savants whose gift is manipulating people. I know both Aspies and Sociopaths very well and the difference seems to come down to skill. I can tell when an Aspie is manipulating me but I can't tell when a sociopath is doing it. At least not until it is way, way too late. So there are a few variables but they both definitely depend heavily on manipulating people during social interactions. Aspies more for predictability and self-protection. Socios more for entertainment. But Aspies will do it for entertainment, too. I am aware when an Aspie manipulates me for any reason but get particularly annoyed when it is for entertainment purposes such as pushing my buttons during a disagreement just see me escalate. I didn't have clue until long after the fact when a sociopath was emotionally abusing/using me. Also Aspies seem to be insecure underneath and to really need people. Sociopaths seem to be arrogant and to really NOT need anyone.

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  4. What a load of shit.

    Those whiny retards are so pure of soul they carry the Divine Father's energy and are vessels for it in the matter plane.

    You, OP, sound like your garden variety self-centred asshole who just happens to have been mollycoddled with a bullshit label that lets your embarrassed mother feel better about raising such a little prick.

    Piggyback your way to prominence on someone else's back - us 'soc's' have no need for your desperate posturing.

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  5. He does sound dull-witted but there's no way Rain Man was a sociopath.

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  6. when are we going to discuss manipulation techniques? that way we can actually share some things and grow.

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  7. So if you brush aside the labels for a moment, does it seems as though aspie's are just those with ASPD who are inwardly turned and soch's are outwardly turned?

    ...they should add an asterisk to certain Myer's Briggs classifications.

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    Replies
    1. I like that explanation! Actually Aspies are just mathematically inclined Soch's with no social grace.

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  8. If you tell people your a sociopath, they'll think your nuts.

    If you don't they'll think they are. At least for a while.

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  9. why would you want to tell anyone? unless you are an attention seeking bitch.

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  10. Why do you hide it from everyone?
    It's a personality DISORDER.

    You can use it to to be someone great and then there wouldn't be a reason to hide it and take some of the stigma away.

    I'm sure some of you are already doing incredible things with your ability to do what other's are held back from.

    I would think that it would be the ones that use their bordom time to create opportunities that advance their careers or goals.

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  11. that has nothing to do with my question.. there is 0 productivity in telling another person that you are a sociopath, it will do more harm than good, if you happened to be a suspect in a crime and they go to that person, what if they say.. oh, well one time he told me he was a sociopath lol see? the only reason you'd tell someone is if you are trying to look cool. it's not aspergers or borderline personality where the sufferer is looking for some sort of emotional support, sociopaths despise being seen as weak.

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  12. Hey Notable

    I have not been on for a while and wanted to say thx to everyone here.

    Even though you mostly all claim to be SO I think you do offer some good advice.
    Thx

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  13. the two of you can enjoy is a puddle-deep bond that only thrives on the chemical cocktail the brain emits as 'love'. Basically, obsession.


    Keep rationalising until we say you are a sociopath. LMAO

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  14. What I have read here and other places is that SO are not all evil but we empaths percive your behavoir that way or least very hurtful.

    I am dating one who lies to me all the time but we have a real connection (not love I know)

    When she is with me I know she truly enjoys herself or she put up with me.

    She has studied the hare stuff and say she does not beleive she a SO but readliy admits to a lot of the symtons. Eceot the ones lying and fucking around.

    I working on taking it "as is" but I do fall into the trap of thinking it is real a lot.

    Is there such a thing as Sociopath lite?

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  15. manipulation techniques....normal people who are expert manipulators are just as good as socio manipulators if not better. to be able to manipulate is a high form of intelligence, do it often, you become a wicked, dark individual.

    ways to beat a manipulator:

    1. if a manipulator asks you a question, never answer directly. instead of giving them "exact" timeframes, just say "soon", "someday", "eventually", "not sure when" etc..

    a manipulator can use an "exact" time date such as "today", "tomorrow", "six months", "4:00pm" "etc.." to gather more information about you, use you, get you to do someting else.


    2.if you are not skilled at avoiding manipulation just say you are tired and not in the mood for conversation, or you'll discuss it later, or you have to go-find any and all excuse to not have conversations with them!

    the only way expert manipulators can manipulate you is to KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU and they do that by asking questions, bringing up random conversations, trying to befriend you, and putting thoughts in your head so they can proceed with their goal

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  16. Do socio's get sick of those that stay steady and always come back? No emotional ups and downs, no tricks, just except the little they get?

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  17. However bad aspies may act, they can feel emotions such as love, fear etc. This is why people will always be sympathetic towards them. You can't help to be slightly envious. Just slightly.

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    1. Aspies experience emotion, but they often have trouble identifying it in themselves and others. My full on Aspie husband has trouble differentiating between sadness, anger, and love. And he can't be taught it either. In some ways he'd be better off without emotion. Not to mention that it's just a picnic for me.

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  18. You are kidding? I find it hard to belive you've never felt fear, I don't feel love in the traditional sense, but of course I feel fear.

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  19. i use to think i can feel fear because i feel more alive when i take risks. Later i learned that fear is a negative emotion for thing like ghosts, demons, cockroaches, spiders, needles, social rejection, public speaking etc. Idk I don't really understand fear that well to talk about it in great length.

    recently i have learn from my aunt that I was once badly emotionally abused in preschool from when I was 2-2.5. (i bet there were some physical too, not sure cuz i have no memory of any of this) According to her the teacher often made me stand and watch the other kids eat as a punishment for not eating fast enough. I would cry each day being going there. She remarked that my crying was unusually long. I might have been afraid of going to school? Idk is there a fear test?

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  20. Fears for pussys who are to afraid to live I pushed a fat faggot looser into a electic fence you know and through cow shit at his massiv face and I never felt no fear lol

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  21. If you don't beleeve me thats your problem go suck a dogs dick g for ginger faggot who is so boring your just jealous your not me

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  22. and who exactly are you? i mean other than a mentally challenged farm boy.

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  23. Adam's alter ego.

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  24. @Wet. Do you get adrenaline rushes from things that are life threatening. I know I do. I always figured it was fear. It wasn't enough to stop me from doing it. In fact it often egged me forward.
    @Tik god yes. People who are above it all. Won't care about you do. Who are just steady are annoying. Extremely so. I'm a reaction junky. I need reactions from people to tell what is going on in their heads. If what I am doing is working. If I can't get a reaction from them there isn't much I can do. However, the non-reaction that they give generally makes me react in escalation. I just need to see how far I have to go to make you react.

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  25. To Mail-Writer (in M.E.'s article):

    My friend through about 8 yrs has Asperger's, and I've observed the very same traits in him that you describe!

    So I have long been certain that it is possible for someone with Asperger's to also have f.x. AsPD.

    It's a theory that I've seen none of the leading Experts present, and there also seems to be no research done on this subject at all.

    So apparently I'm pretty alone with it - except for you and M.E..

    Until todayI haven't been able to find anybody with AS who were willing to even consider it as a hypothetical idea.

    And that is why I ask you: May I use the text from your mail cited on this page?
    Also: Might you be interested in exchanging a few lines by mail?

    My email link is at my Profile, and at my blog. You're more than welcome to send me a line (and visit my blog. It'll tell you a few things about what kind of person I am).


    - Whatever you choose to do...

    I wish you good luck ahead!... '^L^,


    Ps. By the way, I do have a funny anecdote I'll share with you if you choose to contact me.

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  26. UKan, Adam and Misanthrope are sociopaths, the rest are aspies or wannabes.

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  27. tik:

    "If you tell people your a sociopath, they'll think your nuts.

    If you don't they'll think they are. At least for a while."

    Haha!... :D


    "Do socio's get sick of those that stay steady and always come back? No emotional ups and downs, no tricks, just except the little they get?"

    Not if there're others around also. If you only have access to the kind of people you describe, you'll end up doing some pretty not nice things in order to get through their stability and shake it up.

    I actually know someone like this on the Internet, and I really like him. He's good for me, even, because he has a lot of qualities I appreciate: Intelligence and a sarcastic humor that I actually understand (emotionally, not just intellectually). Most normal people's humor isn't funny to me. I can easily see when they a saying or doing something humorous, and the same goes for jokes. But my laughter in those situations are pure performance.


    Confused:

    "I am dating one who lies to me all the time but we have a real connection (not love I know)"

    We often hear that connections with a psychopath (or sociopath) is not real.

    But this is a misunderstanding. When you connect with someone, whether or not that someone is a psychopath, you have a connection, and that connection is real!

    It may not be the same kind of experience, feelings, actions and behavior that you experience in a connection with a psychopath as you would with a normal person, but that doesn't mean it is any less real. It is just different!

    I hope I helped clarify one of the sad misinformations there are so many of when it comes to descriptions of psychopaths and sociopaths).


    Anon 7:18

    You are kidding? I find it hard to belive you've never felt fear, I don't feel love in the traditional sense, but of course I feel fear.


    It is possible to never have felt 'real' fear.

    I thought I had felt real fear (and used to find it mildly pleasant) until I went through an assessment procedure and was interviewed and then tested about my emotions.

    It turned out that what I thought was a fear experience, was really only a vague shadow of fear, some mixture of excitement and slight anxiety.

    Real fear is not pleasant, never! Believe it or not, that's the truth!
    And Empath folk NEVER think fear is pleasant in the least.

    That's how you can tell if yours is real fear or not: If there's any pleasant air about it, it is not real fear.

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    Replies
    1. If fear can never be pleasant why do people watch horror movies?

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  28. Kesu:

    "Do you get adrenaline rushes from things that are life threatening. I know I do. I always figured it was fear. It wasn't enough to stop me from doing it. In fact it often egged me forward."

    Yep. And that's why it's not 'real' fear. :)

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  29. Contract killing Human trafficking Genocidal Child molesting PimpApril 16, 2011 at 5:31 PM

    ur all fags and bitches. i just raped a 4 year old took out a mob boss killed 1000 gypsies sold my mothers pussy on the street for 5 dollars and sold all of my sister to a bunch of sadistic bikers. now i have to go do some more sociopathic shit.

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    1. What you can do is kill the shit out of yourself like the motherfuckin' bastard you are.

      Delete
  30. I don't see why ASPD can't be co-morbid with Aspergers. Neurologically speaking, I'm a complete layman, but this isn't the first Aspie who has rolled through SW that sounded like a bastard (though the others sounded worse). I guess we can't all strive for greatness ;)

    I'm not a sociopath? Fine. Be that way. I see how it is.

    Fucker.

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  31. "Sociopath Lite"

    Lol.

    Low-Fat, Low-Cal Bastard.

    I think Morningstar has this is the freezer section.

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  32. An aspie and a socio walk into a bar. Who pays for drinks?

    Does it matter.

    Ultimately you have two uniquely wired individuals who are grabbing straws- a strategic competition for fun and games. Why look for the conformity of a perfected diagnosis when the conversation over drinks is priceless, engaging and without a limiting conscious.

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  33. are you morons saying an aspie stands a chance againsts a devious sociopaths? you retards, the retarded aspie doesn't stand a chance, they will piss their pants.

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  34. Dear Gor,
    Suck my sociopathic dick. Thank you.
    On a lighter note. I do believe that you are a :Normie: and as such must also be a poser so please leave this site and never return, for you are unwanted and if you ever met a real sociopath he would kill you for the drivel that you spout.

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    Replies
    1. Since you can't stand Gor's comment, why don't you fuckin' kill yourself like the fucked-up asswipe you are? If you talk like that to meaner and nastier guys out there, they'll murder the shit outta your ass.

      Delete
  35. I way prefer Adam to these morons who have nothing to say other than "you're not a real sociopath, if you ever met a real one he would do this and that and you would be shitting your pants blah blah blah faggot pussy rape" OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

    You guys make this into one boring-ass place to come visit.

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  36. i don't like your attitude

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  37. Zhawq

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I get what you said.

    I know I can have real connection with my SO. It may not be just what I have a with an empath but it is still real.

    What I got from Notable was I have to accept her for what she is and enjoy the ride.


    She want to make real changes in her life but I am not sure if she is capable to stop lying and have other "friends".

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  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  39. These so-called "diseases" are just made up excuses so some people can act weird and get away with it.

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  40. I've just come out of a year long relationship with who I thought was an Aspie, that I'm now considering was a sociopath.
    He checked all the Aspie boxes. But wouldn't cop to being one, not fully.
    All his secrecy and hiding behind whatever mask has left me to think he's more likely a sociopath.
    Sadly, if he could only have seen his own behavior, and understand why it was so difficult to know/trust him, if he IS aspie, he would not have lost me as his friend.

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  41. Oh my, your intuition and understanding is shit. Not all aspies are smart, not all sociopath's are smart. Asperger and sociopathy are different in so many ways, like having troubles reading social cues and substituting your own explanation and knowing to well what is happening but wanting only profit. Altruism vs egocentrism (somewhere on extreme ends of the scale).
    Different areas of your goddamn fucking brain are responsible for reading emotion and for conveying your own, for moving your goddamn limbs etc. If you are an aspie, a intelligent one start learning how to hide any emotion and fake normal one, because u are gonna get confused a lot. If u feel shame you are an aspie. Sociopaths do not feel shame. But u can be a dumb sociopath and be bad with manipulation, in that case u will end up in confrontation with the law, or basic human rules: dont kill, steal etc. I have not seen anyone who can not be identified using that.

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    1. sorry ofcourse i have no idea what your intuition is and what you can understand. Also *"knowing too well" and i hope u can filter all the swearing. Good luck in finding yourself.

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    2. oh yes, also guilt. How do you identify guilt? Blame really hard someone for what they actually did and observe reaction, see how their ears get red, see how their body language changes. Observe physical effects, see if they will get angry at you (no guilt - no real anger). Aspies also get tired of social interaction and tend to retract inside. Failing at understanding makes you tired, no? Sociopaths dont have that either.
      The differences are really distinct.

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  42. Neither of the two examples sound like Aspergers, per se. They sound like narcissism, but not the malignant narcissism of which sociopaths are capable. If it's true what you say, that he was actually trying to push your buttons, and that he gets a kick out of provoking negative emotional reactions, then he qualifies as what I call "the incompetent narcissist", or a malignant wannabe. If you've misread him, and in fact he doesn't comprehend that his actions hurt people - perhaps he was looking for attention rather than reactions - then I would call him a "clueless narcissist". In either case, I concede that it is true that he is Aspergers at the core, because that's what makes the narcissism clueless or incompetent rather than malignant. However, I maintain that the source of the nastiness is his narcissism, not his Aspergers.

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