Sunday, November 14, 2010

Sociopath song: Conversation 16

93 comments:

  1. dreamy and soothing. perfect for a rainy migrainey kind of day like today.

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  2. completely. even though i am a boofta. :)

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  3. Ah, a zombie lover who likes coffee and flowers, and dancing in fountains... I guess I'm just a fairytale kind of gal, after all.

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  4. Sounds just like Camouflage from the 80s.

    Weird, kids these days and their music.

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  5. Listening to this after twelve shots of voda doesn't nake nuch sene. Sounds catchy though hheh.,

    it is pertttuy soothing though. Lisrening on repet. ^)^

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  6. It's either cough for days straight, b nyquil, or get drunk. You decide.

    I like my opetion more.

    <3

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  7. i would take brandy over nyquil any time

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  8. That's a great song Zoe.

    Totally a sociopath/psychophant song, too.

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  9. i was just thinking that too. spooky dreamy music from my youth...

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  10. This.



    ...is the sociopath song to end all sociopath songs.

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  11. Take a litle walk to the edge of town
    Go across the tracks
    Where the viaduct looms,
    like a bird of doom
    As it shifts and cracks
    Where secrets lie in the border fires,
    in the humming wires
    Hey man, you know
    you're never coming back
    Past the square, past the bridge,
    past the mills, past the stacks
    On a gathering storm comes
    a tall handsome man
    In a dusty black coat with
    a red right hand

    He'll wrap you in his arms,
    tell you that you've been a good boy
    He'll rekindle all the dreams
    it took you a lifetime to destroy
    He'll reach deep into the hole,
    heal your shrinking soul
    Hey buddy, you know you're
    never ever coming back
    He's a god, he's a man,
    he's a ghost, he's a guru
    They're whispering his name
    through this disappearing land
    But hidden in his coat
    is a red right hand

    You ain't got no money?
    He'll get you some
    You ain't got no car? He'll get you one
    You ain't got no self-respect,
    you feel like an insect
    Well don't you worry buddy,
    cause here he comes
    Through the ghettos and the barrio
    and the bowery and the slum
    A shadow is cast wherever he stands
    Stacks of green paper in his
    red right hand

    You'll see him in your nightmares,
    you'll see him in your dreams
    He'll appear out of nowhere but
    he ain't what he seems
    You'll see him in your head,
    on the TV screen
    And hey buddy, I'm warning
    you to turn it off
    He's a ghost, he's a god,
    he's a man, he's a guru
    You're one microscopic cog
    in his catastrophic plan
    Designed and directed by
    his red right hand

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  12. Lovely song.

    I don't think portraying a sociopath was Nick Cave's intentions, but he did a damn good job, accidental or no.

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  13. Nope, this song was one of his fasted written. Most of the lyrics just came out during an improv session in the span of a few minutes.

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  14. Much as I love dear Nick, I prefer Neubauten's cover of "Sand" if we're talking sociopath songs.

    "Young woman share your fire with me
    My heart is cold, my soul is free
    I am a stranger in your land
    A wandering man, call me Sand


    Oh sir my fire is very small
    It will not warm thy heart at all
    But thee may take me by the hand
    Hold me and I'll call thee Sand


    Young woman share your fire with me
    My heart is cold, my soul is free
    I am a stranger in your land
    A wandering man, call me Sand


    At night when stars light up the sky
    Oh sir I dream my fire is high
    Oh taste these lips sir if you can
    Wandering man, I call thee Sand


    Oh sir my fire is burning high
    If it should stop sir I would die
    A shooting star has crossed my land
    Wandering man, - She whispered, - Sand


    Young woman shared her fire with me
    Now warms herself with memory
    I was a stranger in her land
    A wandering man, she called me sand


    He was a stranger in my land
    A wandering man, I called him sand"

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  15. reading past comments i'd really like to contest this assumption that there is an 'increase' in sociopathy.
    nonsense. humans are no different to other species in that there are roughly three neurological groups with regards to empathy.

    sociopaths, normals/empaths and uber-empaths.
    the ratio of one group to the next has always been the same.
    the normals are the majority and always will be, the other two are the minority and always will be.

    any shift in this 'balance' will not benefit the survival of the species.

    off-topic much?

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  16. to the voice in my head.

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  17. Notme, thinking in terms of the society, and not individuals, I think there has been an increase.

    In other words, sociopathic and quasi-sociopathic traits have more value right now, and it's those traits that run things.

    I think it goes in waves throughout history, especially right before an empire begins to collapse.

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  18. perhaps, although i wouldn't know how that is quantified seeing as war is perpetual and oppression too, even/especially at the height of an empire's reign.

    anyway, all that means, if that is the case, is that they are required more at a certain time, not that there is an increase in numbers.

    also, even the softest empaths can acquire quasi-sociopathy for their own survival. that's timeless.
    much like the sociopath takes on quasi-empathy for their own survival.

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  19. Whence comes all this speculation about "quasi-empathy" and "quasi-sociopathy" around here? I've seen no research suggesting these are realities, and yet they're thrown about like incontrovertible fact.

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  20. Even the concept of an uber-empath seems to escape me in the context of this site. Most of the people that claim to be one here are almost as cold and detached as the 'paths that frequent here.

    I think some of it is chalked up to special snowflake syndrome coupled by online dis-inhibition effect. In the meantime, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

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  21. it is what it says on the tin postmodern. 'acting or thinking like...'

    as to medusa's interpretation, that's for her to explain.

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  22. First, that's not what the "quasi-" prefix means.

    Second, who here that identifies as sociopath or similar has attested to any amount of empathy?

    Well, NotAble aside... he's not very good at consistency.~

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  23. Yeah, I was gonna add a P.S. that basically said that maybe there's not more or less 'sociopathy', per se, but it's at least more public and more openly socially valued.

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  24. hmmm...

    @notablepath

    who do you think is diametrically opposite to the sociopath? is it a normal? no.
    when you are dealing with extremes, you are dealing with people who are basically highly- tuned, instinctually speaking, in a specific way.

    people who are very aware of their instinctual needs inherently tend to override social conventions and traditional, cultural standards of thinking in favour of their own intuition towards a favourable and successful life.

    so, do not be at all surprised to come across strong empaths who share the same rational, and emotionally detached worldview as yourself.
    it may appear a contradiction, but i grant you it is not necessarily so.
    they may shudder at the things you do, but if they are smart and self-aware enough, they will not judge you at all.

    i hope that explains it.

    as for special snowflake syndrome, i wouldn't wish the life of a strong empath on anyone. it's far too much hard work.

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  25. Aren't all normals "quasi-sociopaths"?

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  26. I was commenting on something that had been bugging me which was sparked by your comment. Thanks for the remedial lesson though, I definitely needed it.~

    @notme:
    Tough question. I think the most diametrically opposed personality to a sociopath is someone with Borderline Personality Disorder.

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  27. That's not how normative qualification works.

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  28. PMS & TNP, I only use the 'quasi' label because I don't believe in the clinical concept of 'sociopathy', and even if I did, I wouldn't know where to draw the invisible and illusionary line.

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  29. Also at times I may see myself as a quasi-empath, and at other times as a quasi-sociopath, but never one or the other forever all day long until I die.

    It shifts along with my perspective.

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  30. What is it that you don't believe about 'clinical' sociopathy?

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  31. lol notable. i suddenly feel a little exposed.

    i diagnosed myself as bpd, went to get professional clarification and was told i have some of the traits. i am not your full-on bpd. i do somewhat understand how you'd arrive at your conclusion, but not really.
    could you explain?

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  32. I'd think we'd all agree that psychology is a construct and nothing more. (In my mind, this contruct says more about the constructors than the constuctees.)

    Even if I was to be less ontological about it, the labels are never static for long. The DSM is about to change, after all.

    And to get even less meta, I see you guys calling yourself sociopaths, and while I don't know what you do in your day-to-day lives (stabbing strangers? Petting kittens? I don't know), your thinking processes have the same outward results as 'normal' thinking processes do, depending on your level of maturity and self-awareness, and depending on the level of maturity and self-awareness of the 'normal'.

    Which is why I lean towards a clinical definition of any disorder based on the behavioral aspects (i.e. causing social problems, which is, after all, the definition of pathology), and not anything to do with intent.

    Of course, behavioral-based labeling doesn't do anything for leading the clinician towards any type of 'cure', but I don't give a fuck.

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  33. I almost married someone with severe Borderline Personality Disorder. It was a wonderful nightmare and a bit of a roller-coaster to say the least. Suicide attempts, dissociation, suicide attempts and a few more curve balls.

    Sometimes she'd be on top of the world, happy-go-lucky and the kindest, sweetest ball of happiness and emotions I've known to this day. Sometimes she'd literally be other people, which freaked me out. A friend of mine dated her a few years before I met her and commented on as much, chilled that guy to the core when it happened.

    She did weird stuff like dress in clothes that matched mine, tried to imitate the music, interests and other things that I liked. Except, she didn't do it to use me but make me more comfortable around her and to want her more. That's what she told me, at least.

    I think the thing that pissed me off was her black and white thinking, and severe demonizing and praise of certain things, regardless of logic. And of course, I was the effed up person for not seeing things her way.~

    Not to discount my own issues, but people with Borderline Personality Disorder make people like me look sane in comparison.

    She was basically my opposite in every way, and maybe that's why we were such a lovely pair of damaged goods. At one point though, it was time to get out. I got tired of it.

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  34. Has my banter about my line of work not been obvious enough? Clearly I'm too subtle.~

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  35. The Borderline/Narcissist Couple

    Yes, yes, it's one of those lovefraud sites, but narcissists + borderlines, as well as sociopaths + borderlines, are like the N and S of magnets.

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  36. Work doesn't define who I am, Medusa. It's a means to an end. I do what I have to in order to make enough to get by and then some.

    Leisure-wise, it's all over the place. I'm not really a creature of habit when it comes to leisure, but more a creature of indulgence via compulsion.

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  37. That article sums up a lot of our relationship. Heh.

    I really wanted to fix her, I think, like a broken toy. I have no idea what she wanted out of it.

    The sexual abuse as a kid really messed her up, I'd wager, beyond repair. Can't say I didn't try.

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  38. lol!!!!
    i loved that notable. (your ex)

    like i said, i'm not that bad, (suicide attempts and such) but i do i have an exhausting propensity to completely inhabit an emotion. it means i'd be a pretty nifty actress.

    i can convince myself of pretty much anything in the moment as i have a very strong imagination.(its fleeting though thank god and boredom helps shift focus onto a new point of interest). they say there's a tiny bit of psychosis in bpd. well borderline psychosis/neurosis.

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  39. I'm glad you found it amusing.~

    I've had a few fix-er-uppers in my day, but she took the cake.

    The person I'm with now is one of the most 'normal' people I know. I have this nagging feeling one day I'll come home and find Black and Whites at my door, hauling her away for being a serial killer or something. *chuckles*

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  40. like is said, i'm bpd light.

    i met a narcissist at work. i'll be honest, we were like chalk and frigging cheese. our honeymoon period lasted all of one week and it switched to abuse from his side. i couldn't help be very attracted to him, but his way of treating me was alien to me, so shocking that i decided the only way i could stomach him was to see him as a cartoon character.

    we fought endlessly. there was obvious sexual chemistry but jesus, i learnt then that i do have standards after all. i swear that if we were forced together one of us would have been dead in two weeks. i would hazard a guess that it would be him.

    he brought out so much aggression in me. i'm actually a very nice girl, and he hated that. what a piece of work he was. and me. two flipping fireworks.

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  41. i forgot to add that i'd take a sociopath over a narcissist anyday of the week.
    i wouldn't date a narc if my life depended on it. i love to give, but i need to receive to. kinda crucial for me.

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  42. lol

    thanks medusa for that link. i should look at it. my work mates used to say the reason we fought so much is cos me and the narc were so similar. fuck me, i thought. the main difference is that i genuinely love/like people (till they do something shitty to me), whereas he seemed to hate all and sundry.

    aww, the memories of a dysfunctional union.

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  43. Huh why are you guys talking about your jobs and work? I didn't say nothin' about no jobs?

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  44. You asked about my day-to-day life.

    On a separate note, for those that read it, I'd like to take this opportunity to brag that I got the highest grade in the class for my paper. Yay me.

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  45. bravo postmodern. *clap clap*

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  46. Who didn't see that coming a mile away.

    Congrats XD!

    Justice

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  47. i'm maling a lote off spelling pistakes.

    anyway.

    so medusa, what are you?

    'diagnostically' speaking.

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  48. That was an interesting article on BPD's and NPD's, Medusa.
    It really just left me feeling like, "Wow. It's a wonder that some people can untangle themselves from their childhoods well enough to walk around and halfway function day to day."

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  49. Kudos, Post. As I told you, the paper was easily understood, interesting and well written.

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  50. Good job, Post. I wish my students wrote easily understood, interesting, and well-written papers. I've been grading papers for about six hundred years over here and it looks like I have about 3000 more papers to go by the size of the stack in my "ungraded" pile.

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  51. Poor Pythias. :(

    I used to typeset papers for what felt like the entire math and physics department. I'd start with a stack of scrawled (or, if I was particularly lucky, typed) manuscripts and diagrams, and by the end of a day or two long stimulant binge I'd have a slightly smaller stack of papers all done up.

    In many ways, not as hard as grading (except that I usually had to correct some of their work, anyway). Then again, I also didn't get the satisfaction of having final power over their grade.

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  52. That sounds excruciating. Thanks Post, for putting things into perspective. :) Yes, the grading is grating, but scores are, indeed, fun to dole out.

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  53. Upshot, I learned a lot of things in the process to which my normal course of study wouldn't have exposed me. Sometimes you have to invent opportunities when none present themselves.

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  54. Definitely a positive. I lived in China for a few months where my day job was to review manuscripts in a biochemistry department to correct their English. I definitely learned a lot about biochem in that process.

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  55. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  56. and i was home-schooled by mormons.
    ;)

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  57. I have a 2007 high school diploma. Yours is probably worth more.

    I wasn't a very good student. I'm more of an autodidact. Teachers (in high school, at least) too often don't understand their subject as much as is required to teach it effectively. While they meet the standards of the Board, they do not meet my standards.

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  58. Yay! I learned a new word: autodidact. I love hanging out with the smart kids ;)

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  59. @notme: Students who were home schooled always have the most interesting sentence structures. btw- I love Mormons. No idea why, but I could listen to their stories all day. It reminds me of going to the library for story hour. *shrug*

    @Aerianne: No worries. I know a whole lot about one little sliver of the known universe and next to nothing about the rest of it. Especially spelling. *shudder*

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  60. I know enough to be dangerous ;)

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  61. nice one aerianne. :)

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  62. I'm more of an autodidact.

    Precisely why I dropped out of college after nearly 3 years.

    I was wasting a hell of a lot of money.

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  63. I know enough to be dangerous ;)

    I don't. I'm sweet and safe like puppies and kitties.

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  64. Someone on Facebook just posted an Emilie Autumn tune called, Opheliac. I'm thinking it's about BPD.

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  65. Shyte! Haven't got roun yet to reading the BPD vs Narc link. I must be behind in the class!

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  66. completely out of the blue: this is such a "dangerous place." why is it so comforting to be here?

    good/bad, good/bad, opposites (da da da.) (sung to sesame street jingle tune.)

    binary thought has had its day. i'd rather hang out here for a while and question it all.

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  67. notme said: "do not be at all surprised to come across strong empaths who share the same rational, and emotionally detached worldview as yourself.
    it may appear a contradiction, but i grant you it is not necessarily so. they may shudder at the things you do, but if they are smart and self-aware enough, they will not judge you at all.

    as for special snowflake syndrome, i wouldn't wish the life of a strong empath on anyone. it's far too much hard work."

    That's what I am, a strong empath who sees through sociopaths very clearly now (suffered through a narcissist and sociopath mom, dad, bf, and best gf to finally get it at the age of 50) and definitely keeps working on assuming sociopath ways of behavior more and more over time. This site is quite educational.

    You're right, it's not easy to be a strong empath, but if there is a contest between a strong empath and a strong socio towards acting like the other, who do you think would have it easier (this is within the confines of civility, theft/murder, etc. left out)? This is a question, I am curious as to what you think.

    Your line on loving people till they behave badly... Empaths do the same, just the definition of bad is possibly universal for an empath and possibly selfish for a socio. What do you think?

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  68. "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore! Lets follow the yellow brick road. We're off to see the Wizard, the Wonderful Wizard of Oz!" ...

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  69. :) I dig that. You're lovely, lol. But, I still want to hear from 'notme,' not you.

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  70. what is meant by "strong empath" and "snowflake syndrome?" extreme uniqueness?

    and why do i feel (oddly) that someone is wishing to engage in a pissing match (and that it wasn't a socio who started it?)

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  71. sorry... i'm several comments behind. i didn't mean to interrupt this exchange.

    in other words: never mind. :)

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  72. @Notable
    lol just had to comment: i also had a relationship with a completely mental BPD girl. suicide attempts etc. also alcoholic. it was an exciting but mentally tiring time. i couldn't fix her. i deleted her from FB then re-added her after 6 months as i thought she'd have calmed down about my breaking up with her by then... she immediately wrote "he has crabs" below every comment by a girl on my wall :) made me laugh out loud. i met her when she was engaged to a friend of mine; we're still friends - how's that for impression management :p

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  73. @anon 10.50

    i can only speak for myself, and i don't expect it to be the same for you.

    i think that when you are a relative extreme, there is a point where you do a 180, and gain a capacity to do that flip effortlessly when need be.

    for me, it is my psychology attempting to balance itself out, so, despite my strong natural empathy, life has a way of attacking that empathy. i don't like hurting people at all. but there are times when my empathy draws a blank, and i hurt people indirectly and don't feel shame. say, i 'steal' someone's boyfriend. to me, there is nothing wrong in that as it took two to tango. i can behave very disregardingly if its serves my needs, and my needs are always justifiable by me.
    i don't believe in a standard of morality so i justify my actions when others will judge me.

    if i impact negatively on people's lives, it's always out of desperation, a defence, not an attack.

    as to who has it easier, i don't know. i will say this, since i matured and shed a vast amount of the socially-engineered superego, i am not conflicted intellectually. i do things i am not 'supposed' to do and say, to hell with it. i will never actually be a socio, but in all honesty, i don't see myself as fixed, so i don't know what i am or am not capable of.

    socios fake empathy all the time, disingenuity is second nature to them. strong empaths are inherently deeply sincere.
    so i would conclude, that, a strong empath needs to think like a socio does, to actually believe it and justify their actions by internalising that justification.

    merely acting like one, but not believing in the rationale behind it, would be virtually impossible for a strong empath. it would smack of hyprocricy, and i've never respected hypocricy. so, cos of my strong aversion to hypocricy, i have no choice but to believe in nothing, which i don't, so i ensure i'm kind to myself, even if others are not. neuroses is a common hazard of strong empathy.

    sorry, if it was long-winded. does that answer your question?

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  74. conti. @anon 10.50

    'Your line on loving people till they behave badly... Empaths do the same, just the definition of bad is possibly universal for an empath and possibly selfish for a socio. What do you think?'


    that's very interesting and i would absolutely agree, if i've understood correctly that is.

    i don't tolerate people being unnecessarily cruel to either myself, or to anyone else. it is not exclusive to me.
    i tend to project my own sensitivities onto the world, and assume others want to be treated with the same care that i like to be treated with.
    of course, that's a little silly in some instances, but i can't help myself.

    have i understood you correctly?
    were you refering to empaths and strong empaths as seperate in that question?

    in which case, there is no difference in the quality of the definition of what is 'bad,' (i'm using your word not mine), just that strong empaths will extend that concept to the whole of humankind, rather than just to their freinds and families. in fact, i look rather derisively on the tribalistic nature of society; ('protect your own and fuck the rest,') although practical and sensible, it undermines my natural idealism.

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  75. @anon 11.09

    a strong empath is someone who is psychologically more sensitive than others. some woman coined the term Highly Sensitive Person (which is a lame name but there you go).
    they process information very differently and make up between 15-20% of the population at any given time. they also exist in all higher species of animals.

    Sensory Processing Sensitivity is the more scientific label for what these people have.

    as for special snowflake syndrome, i don't know what that implies tbh, but i'd hazard a guess that people assume people like to think they are special so they attach a label to themselves. i really don't know...

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  76. Yes, thank you so much. You and I think very similarly. I had not realized you are a strong empath. Hi, there.

    I just move between I'll show that socio and poor socio. I cannot be upset as I understand the lack of emotions. I sure owe a lot to Dexter for that, have also been following serial killers as one happened to put six into pieces within one mile radius of where I lived once.

    I have become really good not falling for the desired trap of the socio, and don't feel like doing anything I wouldn't normally do just to get back at them, but I do. To me the motto for a socio is 'success in life depends on how well you can separate those who hate you from those who are undetermined.' So, having gained the trust of a few socios I am capable of raining on some of their parades by simply blowing the whistle in the dark.

    The choice has become shall I keep away or manage, and since these are people who are far too close to me I choose to manage (but from a safe distance). What seems to be driving them crazy is their inability to control me. And, of course I hear their projections that I'm controlling them (they say that while in rage).

    My socio best gf (oxymoron) has learned to hug people (with huge stone-hard boobs and puppy-like excitement) so sincerely that they all think they get the highest energy around her. Even I do, despite knowing what she is doing. Socios are very interesting. Her IQ is considerably less, so I learned not to confront her but just keep away for a few days.

    Anyway, thank you again. You've been very helpful.

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  77. as i once said to my wonderful super empath friend,

    'either play the game, or walk away.'

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  78. talking about songs...how about Smashing Pumpkins..Zero.

    "Zero"

    My reflection, dirty mirror
    There's no connection to myself
    I'm your lover, I'm your zero
    I'm the face in your dreams of glass
    So save your prayers
    For when we're really gonna need'em
    Throw out your cares and fly
    Wanna go for a ride?

    She's the one for me
    She's all I really need
    Cause she's the one for me
    Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanliness
    And cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like me
    Intoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness
    Bullshit fakers, enchanted kingdoms
    The fashion victims chew their charcoal teeth
    I never let on, that I was on a sinking ship
    I never let on that I was down
    You blame yourself, for what you can't ignore
    You blame yourself for wanting more
    She's the one for me
    She's all I really need
    She's the one for me
    She's my one and only



    love that song..Grace

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  79. @grace

    that's a great album

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  80. Wow. Quite a lot of great taste in music here! (Nick Cave in particular...)

    I've dated a sociopath, a BPD, plenty of depressed and also a narcissist. I seem to be dating someone without a personality disorder right now and it's incredibly foreign to me, but also a relief.

    BPD is AWFUL. I couldn't take the constant propping up on a pedestal and then tumbling off only to be demonized. The alternating being just like me to being the opposite of me. The reinvention of personality and the venom when I didn't merrily follow suit. It was a nightmare. And the anxiety, the addictions, the DRAMA. Sheesh. Gross.
    The Narcissist was also shit. I was imperfect and therefore never had a right to be critical of anything he did. And the sex was terrible. And the lies! Holy Geez. Totally delusional.
    I'd take the sociopath again, if I knew what was up, if I had to pick. At least he was fun, he always had something entertaining going on, or we would make things funny/fun when we were alone. He was creative, inventive and a mind-reader in bed. He was a bit stuck in pop-culture trivia and kind of immature, but it was a very good time.

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  81. No better explaination Amelia. Hence the positive reinforcement for Sociopathic behavior to fulfill our primival drives. Thank you Mr. Freud, Mr. Pavlov, Mr Maslow et. al. Goodbye future of man-kind!

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  82. Библиотека для всех http://sunduchokknig.ru

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