Saturday, December 22, 2012

Heroes and sociopaths

I have posted before about how being a sociopath can make you *feel* like you are a superhero. I think this feeling (narcissistic self-import) is relatively common among sociopaths. For instance, I stumbled upon this not-me description of it here:
Being a sociopath doesn't mean you have to be evil. We struggle to feel the difference between right and wrong, but we do know the difference since we have had it drilled into our heads since we were children, right? Fact is, us sociopaths have more choice in this world than the rest. That is because we can choose to be heroes or we can choose to be villains. No one else can do that, they have to be what they are, they are born a certain way, they will always be that way. Us sociopaths can change to our surroundings. We can do anything we choose to do.
Interestingly, some say this feeling goes both ways -- that superheroes can sometimes feel (or act) like sociopaths.
We look at heroes and do-gooders as a special sort of breed: people who possess extraordinary traits of altruism or self-less concern for the well-being of others, even at the expense of their own existence. On the other end, sociopaths also have an extraordinary set of traits, such as extreme selfishness, lack of impulse control, no respect for rules, and no conscience.

As crazy as it sounds, there may be a closer link than than most people would think between the extreme-altruistic personality and sociopathic personality. Would it shock you to know that two people, one with the traits of extreme-altruism (X-altruism) and the other the traits of a sociopath, could be related? Even siblings? And that their personality traits are very similar, with only a few features to distinguish them? Research by Watson, Clark, and Chmielewki from the University of Iowa, “Structures of Personality and Their Relevance to Psychopathology” [pdf], present a convincing argument in which they support the growing push for a trait dimensional scheme in the new DSM-V to replace the current categorical system.

[X- altruists are risk takers and rule breakers.] When they are faced with that moment, they just act. Compulsively. Barely considering any other course. The lack the impulse control to stop themselves from doing “the right thing” when it comes to the welfare of others, yet ironically, it almost always results in some form of negative consequence for themselves. They have no problem breaking the rules when it means helping an innocent, yet they highly value the importance of obeying rules in other contexts. That’s crazy, you say? Now you’re getting the idea.

[but sociopaths are unfeeling monsters, altruists are so great, bla bla bla]

Interestingly, these two type of individuals, the sociopath and the X-altruist, may appear similar in their displays of behavior, and at times, even confused for the other type. If an X-altruistic person is compelled to break rules without remorse in order to help a disadvantaged person, is may seem as if he is acting rebelliously, especially if the motives behind his behavior are not known. On the other hand, a sociopath may donate a large sum of money to a charity, a seemingly altruistic behavior, but his actions may have been motivated by his selfish need to appear better than or more generous than a colleague. The defining characteristic that separates the two personality types is their ability to empathize, either not at all or too much, which then drives the extreme behavior of each.
And my favorite comment from the article:
Interesting article, but not without bias, and in my opinion, unprofessionally written. Never before have I heard a health-care professional refer to a sociopath as "nasty". As a behavioral specialist, I would expect you to know better than anyone that sociopaths do not choose their hereditary personality disorders anymore than your beloved X-altruists do. Why call names?

And how do you define virtue and "good" intent? Is not the X-altruist's all-consuming desire to help others, at the expense breaking these rules you seem to value so much, just as selfish as the sociopath?
followed closely by this one:
Your intentions are obvious. Try as you like, we'll never associate heroes with sociopaths.

And the social order will thus survive, despite your kind's attempt to weaken and destroy it.
It's an interesting point, though. Are sociopaths considered "bad" just because they seem to do, on average, more "bad for society" type things? If so, can't we just punish the "bad behavior" without singling out everyone with the condition and eradicating them? For another interesting look at heroes and sociopaths in fiction/media, see this article on the "heroic sociopath," including such gems as this rationalization of Peter Pan: "He's only slightly less uncaring towards others as his nemesis Captain Hook and comes across better mostly because his sociopathy is a result of being a perpetual child, whereas Hook really has no excuse." Aspies or Auties, anyone? I'm not so much saying that the hate against sociopaths isn't at all warranted, more that there is no principled way to hate sociopaths and not hate other people/personalities/disorders that are widely accepted or even beloved in society.

76 comments:

  1. Despite what everyone seems to think, I am quite sure that it is the sociopaths, or at least, those with sociopathic traits who change the world. Bob the empathic, average person with two children and a low-paying but socially acceptable job will not cause a revolution, take over a country, start or end wars or even be able kill for his country if the need arises. Sociopaths are often thought of like robots: cold, emotionless and lacking empathy. Empaths I say are so much more robotic - they react in the exact same way to any situation that will arise, and are incapable of detaching themselves from their emotions. A robot does not think, dream, or analyse, and indeed neither do the majority of people on this world, at least, not more than once a week. Talk philosophy with an empath, but disguise it as a hypothetical question. In most cases, they will avoid the question, acting as if the only thing in the world is their misguided circle of friends and family. All of them will profess to have dreams for the future, but almost none will be trying to attain it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think everyone has an 'empath' and 'sociopath' side to them, its not as if all 'empaths' are little angels, and all 'sociopaths' are demons.

      The use of a label is just another way of saying "I don't really care to understand you, I'll just put you in the box with the rest of the ones I don't care about... I don't have time to care about your condition."

      Delete
  2. I read that sociopaths can only be diagnosed after the age of 15. Do you agree with this, or do you think it could be diagnosed earlier?

    ReplyDelete
  3. rosa parks was in her mid forties, working for slave wages doing alterations in a department store, over worked under paid long hours, being told by the bus driver to give her seat to a white man because somehow he was entitled to it more than she, an African american woman. she said no more and started a revolution that affected the lives of every american since. from that moment on she gave of her time to political causes that promoted civil rights for all. superhero!

    ReplyDelete
  4. rosa parks, a bold nigger in a time that was overly controlled by the white devil, was hardly heroic, she was just a tired and over worked person who had reached her breaking point in her station of life and refused to do what others wanted her to do.

    make no mistake, she was not the only black person to stand up for their rights.

    where you see a superhero, i see a choice that chould have easily ended with her being beaten to death. it just happened to go the other way and she got praise for it, like someone who falls in a line of work by chance and winds up acheiving a lot.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "rosa parks, a bold nigger..."

    Wow anon. Aren't you something special? Sociopath doesn't equal racist idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  6. i doubt that he is a sociopath. just an idiot, with what he thinks is a point.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I often used to tell people that everyone is selfish. I would say, "think about it -- if you jumped in front of a bus to save somebody, the last thought that would go through your head is, 'everybody is going to think I'm a hero'"

    Of course, I found out later that this isn't true, it's just me because I'm a sociopath.

    However, these selfish actions to better raise a sociopath up on a pedestool in everyone's eyes still yields positive results because in order to get where a sociopath wants to go (climb the ladder, be a hero be adored) he/she HAS to seem unselfish, empathetic and heroical and that means executing the actions of a do-gooder.

    So, whether or not a sociopath really FEELS for the actions their doing and even though they're purely selfish... it's still helping people and it's still good in the long run for everybody and guess what? The sociopath gets his/her fix as well.

    ReplyDelete
  8. To Anonymous, I do not agree that a sociopaths good deeds are good for everyone in the long run. In face I believe that a sociopaths good deeds end up being a headache to anyone involved in the long run because of the fact that a sociopath will remember every good deed they have ever done for anyone and hold it against them as a tool for manipulation and adoration for the rest of that persons life if they can. Can you imagine someone doing a good deed for you and holdiing it over your head the rest of your life, using it as a tool to manipulate you and an excuse to commit evil on you, while anything good that you have done for them is unappreciated and mocked? I know this because this is exactly what I have gone through with a sociopath. I really do not believe that they forget about any good deeds they have done and there will always be a price they expect to recieve for their "gifts". Horrible and very unevolved. I've been reading this forum and a lot say they have risen above the human condition and are not sheep but I have never seen a person more imprisoned than a sociopath. They are so arrogant that they will never realize or admit that they have imprisoned themselves though.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "rosa parks, a bold nigger in a time that was overly controlled by the white devil, was hardly heroic, she was just a tired and over worked person who had reached her breaking point in her station of life and refused to do what others wanted her to do.

    make no mistake, she was not the only black person to stand up for their rights.

    where you see a superhero, i see a choice that chould have easily ended with her being beaten to death. it just happened to go the other way and she got praise for it, like someone who falls in a line of work by chance and winds up acheiving a lot."

    This is so stupid on so many levels. Rosa Parks was an operative of SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Commitee) and got herself arrested on purpose as part of a plan that would let her sue and protest the bus companies. She was not some random old "overworked" or tired lady, it certainly wasnt luck!!!! Ugh, fucken idiot racist dimwit...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is apparent that most folks often confuse acts of so-called "heroism" with "luck-of-the-indolent" .
      In retrospective of the, well, initial, 2 main "heroes" of the black community. We are looking at a superbly futile "revolt" (it most certainly shan't be named a "movement") that challenged absolutely nothing, in the 60's. And this, as a follow-up (took a while) to a decree which United-States' Principles signed upon in.. what? 1865? official signature of the declaration, right?
      Well. 100 years later, some lazy lady didn't get up from her seat. Hm.
      One's strength is defined by their aptitude to adhere to the stoicism they demonstrate when adhering to altruism.

      Delete
  10. sociopaths are alike iakido they use your power against yourself

    ReplyDelete
  11. they say they want the real ME but the way they react to the dream proves otherwise

    ReplyDelete
  12. they say they want to se the real me but the real me is a selfish controlefreak with a manipulative reflex (sociopath minus charm)

    ReplyDelete
  13. :) Good Morning to EVERY ONE at Sociopathworld!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  14. I made a special episode for you, Rich.

    This is to the Anon who wrote about the King on the chessboard. I am here, if you want to continue the talk we were having about the chessboard!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. thank you, monica. I am thinking too much lately and i do not want to talk about myself anymore, as i am boring the crap out of me. But if you want to tell me things i will listen.

      Delete
    2. Ok Thank you. I wrote some more on the threads two days ago, I think. I would love for you to look.

      Delete
    3. Awww thank you!!!

      Iam gonna go check it out when I get back! Iam going to go have a few beers with the stepdad!

      See you guys later or tommorow :)

      Delete
  15. I have a question about my friend, and it is my friend. She has been 'dating" a sociopath for 3 years. He lives with another woman and she is married. He started off being sweet and "loving". In time, he "got" her to do things she didn't want like Anal intercourse. If he was rough, sexually, she would tell him to stop, but gradually he increased the roughness, where the last time, he held her down and had anal sex with her and hurt her. She told him, that he didn't want to do it, but he didn't listen and did it anyway and didn't let her get lubrication, so it hurt her. She stopped seeing him because she was afraid he would escalate the "roughness". I told her that I think he will hurt her more and more, as this is his plan, albeit unconscious, perhaps. I think his plan is to take her down, as far as he can. I think he will hurt her, if she sees him, again. He is acting all nice, but I fear for her safety. What do you think? Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think pecan pie is delicious.

      Delete
    2. dunno chiks in porn videos seem 2 luv dat

      Delete
    3. i think if she is your friend then it would be wise to drug her to sleep and take her to the mob doctor to have her suture up her a hole. Sure, she will need to shit out of somewhere else, but you win some you lose some.

      Clearly this is a necessary intervention. Some women do not have the strength to keep a dick out of their ass by themselves or even see it is approaching the area.

      Delete
  16. What does that mean * blocks ears*

    ReplyDelete
  17. That last page got all busy with the spam etc. I was talking to the anon about being solid and I wanted to ask her/him if he ever felt solid in his life? If so, how did it feel compared to how he feels, now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i recall the times i have felt solid. i do not forget them. these memories flood me with tears because i am witnessing a tiny thing stand up, like in a movie where a baby horse gets on it's feet.

      i feel like i am solid when being creative too.


      i do not feel different. It is always a struggle to feel solid or to show people i can be solid. i always think they can see me limping. It is in my mind.

      This just saddens me to be aware of it.

      But i guess being aware of it is so good, right?

      I know i should be crying for myself because you are the one who suggested it to me. Right? I am supposed to trust you, right?

      I am trying to say I do not wish to look at myself like a tiny horse.



      Delete
    2. You are trying to take me down like the anal rapist, monica?

      Delete
    3. i am kidding. please do not be sensitive . i am an angry person underneath my sweet vulnerability and i do not mean to take it out on you. you are very nice to me and I am grateful to have you.

      Delete
    4. AnonymousDecember 22, 2012 2:22 PM

      i am kidding. please do not be sensitive . i am an angry person underneath my sweet vulnerability and i do not mean to take it out on you. you are very nice to me and I am grateful to have you.


      Are you the chess Anon or the "solid" Anon~

      Delete
    5. Anon 2 :17

      My solid times, in my past, are my rocks. They are my treasures. That is why I know I don't have to travel to big places or do big things. If I am sitting on a chair with my dog on my lap and solid, it is better than the best first class trip to the most luxurious place with the hottest guy ~
      I have been getting a few solid moments since I have been doing my new creative pursuit. I have had about 20 minutes, total, in the last 2 weeks, but they mean the world, to me.

      Delete
  18. I know i should be crying for myself because you are the one who suggested it to me. Right? I am supposed to trust you, right?

    I am trying to say I do not wish to look at myself like a tiny horse.



    What do you mean?

    ReplyDelete
  19. AnonymousDecember 22, 2012 2:19 PM

    You are trying to take me down like the anal rapist, monica?

    Are you the same anon to whom I was talking about being solid? If, so what do you mean? If not, what do you mean?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i am just blabbing out of my ass. I do not know what i mean. I am both the solid anon and the chess anon. I am not serious today. I must be trying to push you away from me for being nice to me. I apologize.

      I misunderstood your solid thing. Yea i feel your solid thing a lot. I do not need amazing things to feel great. I can do like Haven and make my own carrots too, i just do not do it enough. This is a big struggle.

      I thought you meant solid like having a strong spine and not having to work too hard to live on that spine. I recall those times with sadness. I go in and out of riding my spine. It can be very very strong. I am in awe of it. It feels like the tiny horse's legs.

      I am going to go now.
      bye bye.

      Thank you.

      You are doing great, Monica!

      Delete
  20. You little tease. You are both LOL
    Thank you, Sweetie, for you kind words!

    ReplyDelete
  21. BTW, I push people who are nice to me, away, too. No biggie :)

    ReplyDelete
  22. Ok first of all this website is fucking pathetic. "sociopath" doesnt even exist. Its just a person who is self serving and will do whatever it takes to accomplish that, and will destroy others along the way. And fuckinf LAWL to anyone on here claiming this 'title'.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Ok first of all this website is fucking pathetic. "sociopath" doesnt even exist. Its just a person who is self serving and will do whatever it takes to accomplish that, and will destroy others along the way. And fuckinf LAWL to anyone on here claiming this 'title'.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Second off, these kind of people get off on destroying and taking advantage of others. No real "sociopath" would waste their time caring about people on this stupid website or respond to anybody on here. For the sociopath its all about survival.. And the pleasure they get and satisfaction from making people angry and getting what they want is almost like a daily fix. When a person who is "sociopathic" doesnt get this fix, they feel worthless, empty, and will do anything to gain power again.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Second off, these kind of people get off on destroying and taking advantage of others. No real "sociopath" would waste their time caring about people on this stupid website or respond to anybody on here. For the sociopath its all about survival.. And the pleasure they get and satisfaction from making people angry and getting what they want is almost like a daily fix. When a person who is "sociopathic" doesnt get this fix, they feel worthless, empty, and will do anything to gain power again.

    ReplyDelete
  26. And third, all of you people make me sick. STOP THIS WEBSITE PLEASE

    ReplyDelete
  27. Your all fakes hahahah! Fuck all of you! [4th point]

    ReplyDelete
  28. AnonymousDecember 22, 2012 5:53 PM
    Your all fakes hahahah! Fuck all of you! [4th point]

    Reply

    ReplyDelete
  29. David much?
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/22/justice/new-york-portuguese-model-journalist-sentencing/index.html%3Feref=igoogledmn_topstories?iref=obinsite

    ReplyDelete
  30. I loved this article. Maybe it is because I have a bit of a hero complex. I fantasize about ways to rob the rich elitists so as to give to the poor. I love to lavish all of my excess upon others, and help them in radical, even outrageous, ways. If I can, I'll do so anonymously, but if that proves impossible, I'll always give full credit to God, as I would prefer earn treasure in heaven than accolades on earth. For where my treasure is, my heart will also be. (And why bother running unless it is to win the prize? (1 Cor. 9-24) So I'm competitive. Sue me. :P)

    Perhaps not all of these x-altruists are so very different than their "sociopathic" counterparts, in terms of their ability to experience empathy. I find it annoying that so many psychologists assume that this trait is the motivating factor for all human goodness, when in reality, it is a piss-poor, shallow, fleeting instinct in most people. If such were not the case, we wouldn't consent to buying half the shit we do on the free market.

    Although I disagree emphatically with his labeling of slain children as "little wastes", Ukan stated it well in the forum in the thread "Connecticut Elementary shooting":

    "There's not even a conflict going in the states, but still they are so afraid of everything and everyone they feel they need to have the right to carry 15 light machine guns in their home and beat their children feral. when little jimmy grabs one of the guns and starts cutting down some crowded landmark everyone sits around crying and handing out their fleeting sympathy."

    I strongly suspect that some x-altruists are individuals with pronounced psychopathic traits who choose to abide by a higher ethical or moral code, for cognitive, philosophical or spiritual reasons. And I suppose researchers frequently underestimate the rational, analytical rigidity of the psychopathic mindset.

    I suspect that characteristics such as fearlessness, impulsiveness, aggressiveness, a willingness to break rules, and to speak out against convention do not correlate strongly with affective empathy. However, I would love it if someone could actually cite a reference that either refutes or confirms this hypothesis.
    :-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We elevate empathy above virtually all other traits in terms of assessing human goodness, yet we have been conditioned by a profoundly "sociopathic" society to eschew anything but trite, superficial expressions of sympathy in the face of grave injustice, whilst patting ourselves indulgently on the backs for donating our 5 bucks to The Salvation Army.

      We have been conditioned by fear, and the smug complacency that accompanies being overfed and unconcerned. As such, we remain unresponsive, apathetic and superficially satisfied- thereby castrated of our ability to effect real change, and rendered impotent in the face of our aggressors, who fatten us up at the trough prior to lining us up for the slaughter.

      Delete
  31. The hole between the showers got plugged up, one day. The only penis that was worth seeing was the counselors which looked like a a furry, monster before it popped out at you. Put that together with the rantings of the promiscuous maid, breasts growing like Jack in the Beanstalk and a retarded boy looking like he wanted to eat you, one lick at a time and that made for an additional brick in the ever increasing gap between her and the real world, the one where where mothers don't touch daughter in places where they are not supposed to.



    The last three weeks of the summer, her cousin, Sandy came to visit. The promiscuous maid left.Sandy was the "it girl", even at age 9. If anyone bullied her, she would punch them in the stomach. Sandy even went after the neighborhood bully, who was 12 and the son of the manager of a major league football team, with a punch to the gut. No one touched him, as he had been wildform the time he was small enough

    Sandy earned the ire of her mother, though, as Sandy was perfect looking. No one could be perfect anything around her mother, who had to be the fairest in the land, at ALL times. Her mother was good when Sandy's mother was around i.e. an adult. However, when Sandy'smother left, she knew that there was going to be some sort of trouble and there was.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Sorry about the typos. I forgot I wrote the last 2 paragraphs before I posted.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Her mother hated Sandy because Sandy was beautiful. Some people are born under the sign of the love gods or beauty gods and just come out with all things right and all things harmonious. Sandy had blond hair, big, crystal, clear blue eyes and the face of a cherub. Her mother liked to say that Sandy's ancestors must have been raped by pillaging armies to get her blond hair and blue eyes. She told her mother not to be stupid, in a rare display of strength, but the thought bothered her that her mother had to be so fucking mean to a little kid who just happened to be perfect.

    ReplyDelete
  34. If her mother did other things that summer, she forgot them, but one she remembered, as if it was seared in her memory.

    She and Sandy were playing Barbies, at the kitchen table. Sandy had the wedding dress, mink stole,many shoes and purses, the house, the car, Ken, Skipper: you name it. She had a sensible, middle class Barbie with a few practical clothes because her mother did not believe in spoiling. However, her mother had made her Barbie a red, knitted, turtleneck ski sweater. She was amazed how her mother could have made such a small sweater, so perfectly. The red sweater showed just how amazing her mother was with sewing and knitting. She felt very special that she had a tiny handmade sweater for her Barbie. All these thoughts were swirling in her head as she dressed hers and eyed Sandy's Prada Barbie.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Her mother had a certain look on her face when she wound up to throw a curve ball, well placed to your gut. She looked at her mother and saw that it was coming, like vomit coming out of a kids mouth who did not know that you were supposed to go to the bathroom. Damn it. The kid sat there and let all hell break loose. She knew when her mother was going to vomit up something that would hit her in the gut, such that she would go reeling. It was coming and sure enough, her mother did not disappoint.

    ReplyDelete
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  54. I would think of a hero as being a fully integrated person. The great peace. Total confidence. Fully loving at all times. (A fully loving person is balanced in both good and evil.)

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    Replies
    1. You could divide all human responses into active and passive states of love or fear. The active and passive states of love are peace and play. The active and passive states of fear are fight and flight. The core characteristic of a love response is confidence, and as confidence increases so does love, and consequently fear decreases and so do its counterparts.

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  55. I and my boyfriend were meant to be forever but he met another girl at his work place. She did everything to break us apart B'cos she was younger and attractive, and finally my boyfriend moved in with her. I tried few cheap spells but to no avail then I ordered the most powerful love spell from robinsonbuckler@yahoo.com and I don't regret it! i and my boyfriend are back together and happier than ever. if you are heart broken and you want your lover back contact this spell caster Robinson, he is A top spell caster of the season, he has such a perfect view on love spells that I believe he can solve any case given to him. I recommend his love spell to couples in need of help. Use his services, call him +1(971-512-6745) and you will have your lover back.

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  56. My husband and I have been together for about five years. last month we got into an argument because i caught him cheating, i was heartbroken and i used to love him with all my heart, I was about to leave and asked him what’s on his agenda and he just ignored me. I got mad and cursed him out and left. He said that I am jealous and insecure which is a recurring theme in our arguments. i tried everything to repair our relationship but nothing came alright, luckily enough i was browsing on the internet and i saw testimony of clients who talked about Mr Robinson buckler and also i saw his email address robinsonbuckler@ yahoo.com, i thought may be its also one of the scamming spell caster, but my heart was restless until i contacted him and i used his spell and it worked so nice, his spell made my husband to take me back as his wife, it also made my husband to love me more, anyone who want his or her lover back should contact robinsonbuckler

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