Sunday, March 16, 2014

Right brained (part 2)

A lot of right-minded people don't believe me when I tell them that the people talk very seriously about sociopath internment, sterilization, forced brain surgery, extermination, etc. I don't know why, I think they are obvious. It's true that most of the time you see things in passing, a quick comment like "let's round up all the sociopaths onto an island." Because it seems like every time someone makes a new discovery about differences in the socio brain as revealed by brain scans, people start talking about early detection and eradication. But I thought that this was a succinct list of everything that people think about sociopaths, with or without actually saying them:
When it comes possible to diagnose psychopaths should they be placed under greater sustained law enforcement scrutiny? The better adapted psychopaths who feel a great deal of fear of getting caught are currently getting away with many crimes. If we can identify who they are should they be treated differently?

Also, if a psychopath can be diagnosed in advance as extremely dangerous should it be permitted to lock such a person up in an institution before they rape or kill or do other harm to people? What if a person could be identified as a psychopath at the age of 14? Should such a person be removed from normal society?

Suppose it became possible to treat the brains of psychopaths to cause them to have greater empathy, greater remorse, and less impulsiveness. Should the government have the power to compel psychopaths to accept treatment that will change the wiring of their brains?

Also, if there is a genetic basis for psychopathy and it becomes possible to test for it then should people who have the genetic variations for psychopathic brain wiring be allowed to reproduce? Should they be allowed to reproduce if only they submit to genetic engineering of their developing offspring?

I predict that most of these hypothetical questions will become real questions that will be debated in many countries around the world. I also predict that most populations will support either preemptive restraint of psychopaths or forced treatment to change the brains of psychopaths to make them less dangerous.

127 comments:

  1. I also predict that most populations will support either preemptive restraint of psychopaths or forced treatment to change the brains of psychopaths to make them less dangerous.

    Probably, but maybe not. There is a precedent for such thought. In the 70's and 80's people responded this way to individuals with Jacobs syndrome*, and I think pointing to that over-reaction may help people to remember their manners. :)

    *Studies (yes, even the new good ones) show that prison populations have a higher-than-in-the-general-population incidence of individuals with Jacob's syndrome (XYY karyotype), so it was assumed that Jacob's meant predisposed to violence. Amnios showing XYY led to extra abortions, yes, but not so much now.

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  2. Genetic determinism is being increasingly debunked and what we're left with is complex overlapping factors forming different behaviour. The recent film Zeitgeist: Moving Forward has a fascinating section on this and the nature versus nature argument. Humans capacity for adaptation is what's really hardwired and although some sociopaths on here have mentioned having idyllic upbringings but still being who they are. ME did post part of a study a while back that linked having a genetic predisposition towards sociopathy combined with an impoverished upbringing can cause those genes to express themselves or adapt but that means that some children won't become sociopaths if they are well cared for. If this is true then you can't start 'weeding out' foetus's before birth that have ablity to adapt, survive and evolve because no matter how advanced we are our environment will never be constant and nourishing.

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  3. typo: nature versus nurture

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  4. Here's a good example of the kind of reaction to these studies http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1359203/Life-crime-begins-3-children-Scientists-identify-disturbing-traits.html

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  5. Hahaha. Classic Daily Mail. Read the comments though, I think my favourite line was "they INFECT every corner of our lives"... If we're going to be "treated" for psychopathy can Daily Mail readers also be "treated" for stupidity please. I also enjoyed someones name, it was, "ENGLISH, AND PROUD OF IT". Special people...

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  6. So much more relevant in this. Cudos anonymous 2.15am zeitgeistmovie.com
    Medusa would love this.

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  7. NotablePath,

    A response to you:


    "Zhawq, have I hurt you?"

    You haven't hurt me, Notable. Do try and be a little more realistic about the powers you have to impress others.


    "Did you once consider me sacred or off-limits, and now I'm not? Or were you simply playing nice?"

    I answer this in another post below this one.


    "We can both stand here and pretend that slights jabs will make cooperation impossible, but, at least for me, it's not personal."

    I get that. LIke I said, I know to you this is just a video game.


    "We can share discourse, knowledge, and be civil, I suppose."

    I made an attempt at that and don't see why I should not do so with others who are willing to play by the rules I set in this regard on my own website.
    Here I'll simply "share" and "be civil" as it suits me according to what I see coming from the other participants.


    "Your made if difficult for me, though."

    I did? Okay, whatever.


    "So very tempting."

    Oh drop the pretences already.


    "If you want me to play civil with you, I can. But the temptation not to play nice is so very strong when I hunger for it."

    Your hunger is none of my concern.


    "Your patience is fading, as well as your will to maintain it. I'll welcome the prickly Zhawq just the same as the smooth. I'll have no qualms over meeting a mask that greater reflects how you really feel."

    You're not likely to ever meet me, really. Not here, not anywhere else. But you can watch.

    But probably just as well. You should praise your luck in that regard. I'll not lie: I'd have crushed you.


    (from another post of yours): "I can't stand someone being rude to me. I have the scars of taking bites of vengeance too big to prove it."

    Apparently you don't know what being rude means. I think you're confused!

    .....

    Funny bit:

    "this has been "The Day of the Zhawq Attack"

    Lol, yeah. Seems most of the regulars 'round here have to go through that kinda thang. ;D

    But Notable crossed a line that a Sociopath and a Psychopath would see. *S*

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  8. With no intention to demonize but as prediction goes, why would S/P types be essential to society if tasks requiring efficiency and detachment could better be performed by future technology which apart from being immune to stigma would also have no need to to support the irrational yearning for legacy?

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  9. @GagReflex if you're speculating on future behaviour modifying drugs you're also implying a continuous progression of society, technology and fusion of the human and machine. In this scenario we might outgrow and outpace natural evolution but what if we have a natural disaster that takes us back to the stone age? Diversity is always the key for the survival of species providing stupidity and greed doesn't screw it up..

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  10. Yearning for legacy....

    Why do we do that? To have our footprints on earth even after we leave? As Ss, shouldn't we be caring less? Good and evil are so intimately tangled, that it's is next to impossible to identify any even or any person as completely good or evil anymore (as in as I get older and wiser).

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  11. if someone asked to choose a century to live in only the extreme socios would prefer older days where we as humanity were in less control of the environment as a society. Brought back to stone age overnight the chances are only the extreme socios and their girls would stay alive. So, the best weak but intelligent can do for its own kind is keep inventing. That is how Einstein got rid of Hitler (figuratively speaking).

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  12. I don't believe in exercising pre-emptive 'justice' against 'undesirable' people using so-called 'precrime' technology to place them in orange jumpsuits on islands - let alone enforcing eugenic sterilisation or psychosurgery or selective abortion.

    In the case of psychopaths, it's been asked whether the PCL-R is a risk assessment or personality assessment tool – and the same can be asked of any subjective observations or tests that have the potential to be used and misused to deny people of their basic human rights. How is it that ticking boxes can steal lives?

    It's one thing to identify people 'at-risk' of committing violent crimes but judging them guilty until proven innocent is a denial of their basic human rights.

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  13. Anonymous at 2:15am:

    If this is true then you can't start 'weeding out' foetus's before birth that have ablity to adapt, survive and evolve because no matter how advanced we are our environment will never be constant and nourishing.

    Indeed. I believe that more public awareness of the ethical, legal, and social implications of diagnostic boundaries is needed particularly with regards to children, who are increasingly being diagnosed with psychological labels that stigmatise them when they're already marginalised, which *increases* problems in their lives.

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  14. I guess until one of the dead is your own child you will keep speculating as to how to avoid identifying and dealing with a psychopath. This issue could be not important sociopaths because we know how much they are capable of loving even their own child.

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  15. Anyone can kill or maim another human, they don't have to be a psychopath, which is why the concepts of pre-crime and pre-punishment are also flawed.

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  16. Did GagReflex just invent artificial intelligence?

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  17. GagReflex said:
    With no intention to demonize but as prediction goes, why would S/P types be essential to society if tasks requiring efficiency and detachment could better be performed by future technology which apart from being immune to stigma would also have no need to to support the irrational yearning for legacy?

    Exactly.

    Eugenicity (or eugeny?) is as old as the human species. Marrying it to an encompassing and fair-for-all ethical code is the real challenge.

    PCL-R and and other strictly monitoring measures are currently being applied and discussed fairly successfully within consistent ethical limits (i.e. they have not yet contradicted themselves with double standards).

    Can society cultivate useful sociopathic traits and quench the inappropriate ones?

    Maybe this involves a fair amount of biological engineering to prevent predispositions in future individuals, coupled with means that materialize the relevant traits only in the relevant situations.

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  18. Sea Witch:
    It's one thing to identify people 'at-risk' of committing violent crimes but judging them guilty until proven innocent is a denial of their basic human rights.

    Agreed. Too many people from both sides are annoyingly biased and nonsensical on this issue.

    There are problems enough when trying to punish consistently and prevent consistently. It doesn't help at all that the passionately biased jump on the debate demanding hell for sociopaths, because it gives the ammo to their arguments that people are hipocritical fascists.

    All in all, there's not much beyond a simple rule - sociopath's rights should be preserved in the same amount they act ethically towards others.

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  19. I really wish UKan was here to counter Sea's bullshit down here. She justifies some thought under the premise that 'anyone can kill.' Yeah, right, theoretically. Stop the bullshit and let's talk about who DOES kill. The facts are out there. I don't suggest labeling people but cut the crap with this anyone can kill bs. THe question is what needs to happen before triggering a kill. Can anyone kill someone they don't know for money?

    Oh, let's read her crap one more time.
    Sea Witch said...
    Anyone can kill or maim another human, they don't have to be a psychopath, which is why the concepts of pre-crime and pre-punishment are also flawed.

    February 22, 2011 5:32 AM

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  20. Would See bitch kill Sea WItch?

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  21. Psychopaths are born ted bundy arranged knives around his aunt at age 3 he was born to kill. Evil exists.

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  22. AMoralBing at 6:10am:

    PCL-R and other strictly monitoring measures are currently being applied and discussed fairly successfully within consistent ethical limits...

    It's been claimed that the diagnosis of dangerous and severe personality disorder (DSPD) is currently being used to detain violent offenders past the length of their sentence and is more about protecting the public rather than treating the patient.

    The clinical guidelines for antisocial personality disorder, which DSPD and psychopathy also fall under, states that, "people with DSPD can be seen as having a lifelong disability that requires continued input and support over many years."

    When the UK government first introduced the new classification of DSPD, in a paper Managing Dangerous People with Severe Personality Disorder in 1999, many people railed against it as they saw it as detaining incurable people as a preventative measure – even in some cases where they had committed no crime.

    The Society of Clinical Psychologists, for example, responded: "We do not believe that outside of the eugenics employed in pre-war national socialist governments such as Germany that prevention is currently a realistic issue. Prevention of recurrence will depend on the assessing skills of those involved in care, but the main success in the past with psychopathic personalities is that determined by age. The older the psychopathic personality the less of a danger he became and this, of course, was absolutely nothing to do with anything anybody did. We need to set rules and not to think that we can play God with situations that are probably prenatally determined in the vast majority."

    Reports last year also claimed the diagnosis is suspect, and some prisoners are more aggressive after they undergo the scheme, no doubt perhaps as result of been detained unnecessarily.

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  23. I am a motherfucking psychopath, motherfucker! I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say 'anyone can kill' one more time.

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  24. I think the best bit about this is that if someone told me I had the option to take treatment/surgery or face the consequences, I'd probably look for a way to get around / fake it xD Can't stop my own nature, dammit...


    Zhawq, I apologize.

    Cheers

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  25. the technology for early detection of psychopathy via brain scan will be here soon, but the political will for it is not. I'll bet a number of top politicians and business leaders are sociopaths.

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  26. This site has been over run by boring fucks. The very few interesting socio's have vanished.

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  27. I'll bet a number of top politicians and business leaders are sociopaths

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  28. Duh, that is why i am worried. Not sure about u but i wish all other sociopaths are dead. Not sure if u guys also feel that way.

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  29. Guess I didn't grasp the seriousness of this as a reality. Isn't it also possible that it's all setup to gaslight a convenient group to avoid addressing change at a more fundamental level?

    Isn't that what American society, has been systematically crash dummied with since WW2? The use of paranoia, manipulation of facts, pseudo science and 'sacred universal values' to divert blame away from systems of greed and power?

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  30. Also anyone who is similar in other ways.

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  31. I am a motherfucking psychopath, motherfucker! I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say 'anyone can kill' one more time.

    Anyone can kill.

    Silly bitch.

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  32. "Isn't that what American society, has been systematically crash dummied with since WW2? The use of paranoia, manipulation of facts, pseudo science and 'sacred universal values' to divert blame away from systems of greed and power?"

    Getting rid of religion and faith and replace it will science and skepticism is my hobby. I wish I will have the chance to destroy religion.

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    Replies
    1. Religion and faith make people much more predictable, their idea of idealism is written out in a book that anyone can get their hands on. Why, it just annoys me when that happens.

      Delete
  33. hello there more aggressive version of me, the new see bitch, go for it, get it all out of your system. Anyone who says anyone can kill is out of marbles

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  34. Don't blame American society. They are already under serious and real attack with obesity (by the way, any obese out here?).

    Do you know of any group in steady power who have not run against the interests of some other group? Brits? Germans? Chinese? Ottomans? Japs?

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  35. If religion is out the window, people will become predatory and amoral, we need to keep them brainwashed you stupid fuck.

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  36. yeah, I'm obese. You got a problem with that Anonymous? Oh, I get it, you must be have never seen an obese psychopath before. Well roll me in flour to find my wet spot THEN tell me I'm a blight on American society, ASSHOLE.

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  37. And just when we think this topic is as simple and predictable as a discussion about Japanese interment camps, throw in Ray Kurzweil's date for Singlarity- the disruptive transformation of human capacities using non-biological intelligence in 2045.

    See article in Time http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2048138-2,00.html

    Kurzweil’s argument is the tacit assumption that if we liberate enough information-processing power, then nature will succumb to all our desires. (careful what you wish for)

    Based on this premise soon there will be nanotechnology which could increase processing speed. Think neuro-typical who can out pace psychopaths’ corpus callosums speed advantage.

    Then if there is a genetic basis for psychopathy and it becomes possible to test for it then should people who have the genetic variations be altered or enhances using this technology?

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  38. Sea bitch, Psychopaths are notorious for having TLDR syndrome, please refrain from your drivel.

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  39. Your species will never take over, you would all kill oneanother out of paranoia, greed, jealousy and hatered.

    When you discribe America your only discfibing yourselves.

    So whatever you think should be done to America,religions or races should be done to you.

    Fair is fair

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  40. Agreed, a world full of psychopaths and narcissists would never work.

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    1. Two sociopaths in the same room never works, I don't even want to think about what would happen if you got three in the same room…
      That thought makes me shudder

      Delete
  41. "Your species will never take over, you would all kill oneanother out of paranoia, greed, jealousy and hatered."

    That's how it is already and how it's always been. And who cares about fairness? It's not "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" it's "Do unto others before they can do unto you".

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  42. I don't get some self diagnosed psychopaths on here, they adapt a beleif that everything should be done according to logic, even if it is to help an individual.

    If you had no conscience, what would you get out of doing good?

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  43. Just leave a urine ring around your territory and those predators will just and back off.

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  44. You can gain from doing good and you can gain from doing bad. It all depends on what circumstances are thrown at you. I don't go out of my way to do either. I just pick whatever course of action that has the best result. Usually I do whatever I feel like doing, and I don't stop to think about wether it's right or wrong because it doesn't matter.

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  45. Urine smell does not understand right or wrong, it just creates a turf message.

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  46. Sea Witch was talking about the enhancement of one trait now ascribed to ASPD's---at least according to yesterday's posted study. There are any number of things that go into creating sociopathy, at least according the the current research.

    It's interesting that some seem to focus on altering or eradicating a genetic type. (As in, if the foetus tests positive for this predisposition or that, abortion is considered in earnest.)

    But much indicates that an early exposure to violence is necessary to cultivate the more aggressive tendencies of sociopathy. Other characteristics considered benign and even useful in many circumstances--such as rapid processing speed across the corpus callasum, a tendency towards logic and detachment---are not often ascribed to sociopathy, but they still tend to go with the territory.

    It's most likely a useful genotype: true even in circumstances in which only those who are both violent and calculating will survive. In theory anyway, if people of this genotype aren't faced with violence or poverty, they could make the raw material for our pool of scientists, attorneys, and other professions in which dispassionate logic is a definite advantage.

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  47. Well I've been pissing on people my entire life.

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  48. Anyone who says anyone can kill is out of marbles

    Of course anyone can kill you dimwit. It’s the emotional after effects of killing that would be different.

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  49. No dimwit back, no, get it?

    I love you guys, all of you, especially when you are so many miles away from me... Piss around, make your bed in it. You deserve it.

    Yeah, I knew secondary see bitch would be obese. It's the fighting parents who did that.

    All that corisole, yummy,
    Thick fat around the belly....

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  50. Not your average NarcFebruary 22, 2011 at 11:12 AM

    I'm better than all of you in every way imaginable.

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  51. “Normal” people have just as much potential to do horrible things as a psychopath/sociopath might potentially have. The foundation of the legal system in this country is innocent until proven guilty (yeah I know this doesn’t really appeal to human nature) because people have the ability, the supposed civilization, to defy base animal instincts. People have control over their decisions and intent to do or not do harm, is something that must be taken into consideration for anyone. There are plenty of criminals, murderers, rapists in our prisons that are not psycho/socio, which make the concept practically irrelevant. So while scans may be able to identify distinguishing characteristics in the individual it cannot identify how an individual chooses to act. Not to mention, in order to identify a certain subgroup of people, EVERYONE would have to be tested. Economically speaking this is hardly viable.

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  52. M.E.:

    "A lot of right-minded people don't believe me"

    I have the same experience in this context.

    You don't say anything about how your own thoughts are about the possible direction in which these problems - or these debates - will develop in the years to come.

    Do you think the author is this article is right? Or is he paranoid?

    In my own opinion I definitely see it as a possibility. A lot of signs points in exactly that direction.

    It's a good thing to bring attention to these aspects of 'our' reality once in a while - just to balance things a bit.

    Thanks for posting this and for linking to the origin.

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  53. And then there's the other side of the debate: those who fear that the neurological/genetic argument will be used as mitigation and lead to more lenient sentences.

    It doesn't seem likely to me, just as the insanity defense exists but is never successful when the crime is one of violence.

    It may be another useless proviso in the books, if it's recognized at all: another thing to fuel outrage on the "indefinite internment based on possibilities" side.

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  54. We need more blog posts on exciting subjects like actual real life notorious sociopaths, or how to better manipulate your envoirment, I'm not talking about long hauls of scientific babble, i mean manipulative techniques that get right to the point.

    Theories on the brains of sociopaths might be interesting to a few individuals, i feel bad for you if you find this interesting, but I myself find it incredibly boring, i actually skipped reading the last few posts, do we want to be a scientist or a conman?

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  55. "We need more blog posts on exciting subjects like actual real life notorious sociopaths, or how to better manipulate your envoirment, I'm not talking about long hauls of scientific babble, i mean manipulative techniques that get right to the point.

    Theories on the brains of sociopaths might be interesting to a few individuals, i feel bad for you if you find this interesting, but I myself find it incredibly boring, i actually skipped reading the last few posts, do we want to be a scientist or a conman?"


    I agree.

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  56. "We need more blog posts on exciting subjects like actual real life notorious sociopaths, or how to better manipulate your envoirment, I'm not talking about long hauls of scientific babble, i mean manipulative techniques that get right to the point.

    Theories on the brains of sociopaths might be interesting to a few individuals, i feel bad for you if you find this interesting, but I myself find it incredibly boring, i actually skipped reading the last few posts, do we want to be a scientist or a conman?"



    You have the depth of a kiddy pool.

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  57. If it isn't interesting to you, don't read it. If you'd like to start another discussion, start one.

    Actually, I really don't care whether you find it interesting or not. I just wanted to see if this comment would make it past the spam filter after having a couple eaten, and I couldn't think of anything pressing to say.

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  58. That was one shitty impersonation of an anon, Adam. I actually agree that these last two posts are boring though. It's nothing new.

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  59. "We need more blog posts on exciting subjects like actual real life notorious assholes, or how to better manipulate your lonely life, I'm not talking about long hauls of scientific babble, i mean manipulative techniques that get right to the point, so I can put a gun to my head.

    Theories on the assholes of sociopaths might be interesting to a few individuals, i feel bad for you if you find this interesting, but I myself find it incredibly erotic, i actually skipped reading the last few posts, do we want to be a scientist or just masturbators."

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  60. That wasn't me though, I think we should overthrow the M.E regime.

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  61. If you "overthrow" Sociopathworld, you would post... where?

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  62. I hardly give a shit what the posts are about. If there interesting then thats great. If they're boring who cares? Nobody usually stays on topic for long anyway. ME might as well just give us a blank page and leave the rest up to us. And I'm glad that the spam filter is fucking somebody other than me over for once.

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  63. You are all tools. Don't you realize M.E. is raising an SW army. Who is manipulating who sucker?

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  64. I spent all of yesterday drinking with some people I know. Late last night when I was coming back I saw some kids trying to break into this car. They stopped what they were doing and try'd to act all natural but it was pretty obvious. It remineed me of some the things that I used to do when I was younger so I picked up this broken in half brick and dashed it through the window. I was half expecting them to thank me but they just stood there shocked. I don't think they saw it coming at all. After that I decided that I needed some food to soke up the drink so I went to this late night take away place. When I walked back across the area the car was on fire.

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  65. LOL Nice work Mis. Tell us more of you're stories.

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  66. Misanthrope the only ones that I know who would do that are kids.

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  67. Yeah I know. And that's what was so beautiful about it. I just let go completely and I felt 12 years old again. It's feels good to do pointless things like that every once in a while. you should try it.

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  68. I do pointless things their just not ditructive.

    I'd rather go out dancing and drinking go home and have some hard maybe sloppy sex, but that's just me.

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  69. How old are you now Misanthrope?

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  70. that was more intresting then the discussion before.

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  71. I stated my age before, but that wasn't my real age. I'm older than what I said I was, but not way older. If you can find my fake age in the archives, you can estimate how old I really am.

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  72. tik. Like I said I did drink heavily and I also had sloppy sex. So thats two of the things on your list. I don't fucking dance.

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  73. Two out of three is good, I didn't throw a brick!

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  74. @tik

    Help me before I do something stupid.

    I got a sudden rage spike, and I feel an urge to just kill someone. Literally.

    HELP!

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  75. Hey Jason, tell me about it what happened?

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  76. Don't do anything you'ml be stuck wit the consequences.

    Tell me, start typing.

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  77. Well I sometimes look within myself, and begin to self-hate.

    I feel like I am worthless and that nobody is worth caring for.

    The self-hating goes away when I cause someone else harm. I kind of feel better afterwards.

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  78. Jason your just as important as anyone else and I like what you add to this blog.

    Tell me do you have area's that you excell in)

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  79. Psychopathy
    20% Genetic
    80% Environmental

    Note that being callous and/or immoral doesn't necessarily mean that you grew up in a bad environment.

    A psychopath is someone who fits the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy, nothing more nothing less. Successful psychopaths are as rare as 5 legged dogs. Callous bosses exist, but there score on the psychopathy check-list would not be high enough to be diagnosed

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  80. Jason, have you been listening to Simple Plan lately? You should stop.

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  81. jason you are not as important as anyone else, but you are young - chill the fuck out and figure yourself out for a while. be an observer. kill/torture a small animal if you want to get any dark urges out of your system.

    tik - why are you here? did one of your own kids have a PD and you treated them badly and now you suspect they were just wired that way and still deserved your love?

    anon - source? last i heard personality in general was 45% genetic, 5% environment, and 50% unknown. also - diagnosis for psychopathy was developed from looking at criminals. do you think the thought process or the behaviour is more important for the diagnosis, or are both necessary?

    lol WV: fucit [i think it's missing a 'k']

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  82. If you feel as though you're worthless you are worthless. If you look inside yourself and start to self hate, chances are that theres alot thats worth hating.

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  83. @misanthrope

    How can you be so mean :(.

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  84. Has anybody on here ever felt suicidal?

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  85. Jason don't feed into that Bullshit.

    He is mean and this is his playground.

    Doesn't know you and you don't know him.
    He's a fuzzy warm bear that likes his belly rubbed and throws bricks when he's drunk for all we know.

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  86. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  87. tik, how old are you?

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  88. Res, I'm here because I think that Socio's are that National Treasure, or the Holy Grail.

    Not sure I want to answer No one.

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  89. "Res, I'm here because I think that Socio's are that National Treasure, or the Holy Grail."


    So you respect people who take away your rights?

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  90. tik i would say that from your mature and reasonable maternal inclinations you are probably a grandmother anyway... and that's fine. just not sure why you're here.

    mis - yep. well actually no. :) been depressed, but always been able to take a step back (compartmentalise?) and know that it has happened before and will happen again and is just a temporary chemical thing and i can just be stoic and ride it out.

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  91. They can only take what I let them have or what I give them.

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  92. You obvioulsy haven't met me.

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  93. "They can only take what I let them have or what I give them."

    You have to realise that you're open to attack or you'll never be able to defend yourself against it.

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  94. Sorry Jason I had to drive home from work.


    Misanthrope, why did you ask about suicide to Socio's, do you think that it's a possibility for any unless they were caught?

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  95. Oh shit, the blog committed suicide

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  96. I committed suicide. Being dead is awesome. It's like I'm one of you now.

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  97. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  98. Can't we get some witty imposters that don't fail at trolling?

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  99. New post up already, 2 in one day.

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  100. Misanthrope have you felt suicidal then?

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  101. I can't imagine feeling suicidal. If you dont want to live you deserve to die.

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  102. Forget suicide. I am have bisexual urges. HELP!

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  103. @Sea Witch:
    Diagnosing things like DSPD or ASPD (the stuff that say "you have a tendency to do bad things") is a perfectly valid aggravator.

    While I'm fully commited to preserving human rights, preemptive rationality is not a void argument.

    On one hand we have someone with a knife and a history of assault and slaughter, on the other we have individuals with mild anti-social traits. Someone could say the first is out of excuses and the second is a time bomb ready to go off given the right circumstances. Also, a humanitarian could use the same argument to say the proper environment can disencourage predisposed individuals. Either way, we should draw the line somewhere.

    Misanthrope describing the whole car incident and TheNotablePath saying he would avoid treatment if forced to it is ammo for the argument of preemptive measures. [and let me be perfectly clear: I am not criticizing (after all, it doesn't make sense for us to act and think differently from our nature), nor am I advocating anything - at least not for now; I'm merely stating the obvious for clarity's sake]

    But I think I'm with you on the sense that things are still too fuzzy to act effectively. Maybe that's why people here follow the subject with great interest and expectation.

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  104. not expectation, anticipation

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  105. It reminds me of the movie Gattaca, where the main character is secretly an "invalid" member of society due to having a genetic profile that finds a significant probability of dying of a heart defect (which never happens). As an invalid, he spent most of his life as a second-class citizen and janitor, until he conspires with a crippled "valid" first-class citizen (who has no unwanted genes) to adopt his identity.

    In real life it is a slippery slope which people will happily ski down.

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  106. The world should accept all "types" of people. From socios to Downs to religious to atheists to alcoholics, etc.

    To do otherwise, would be a form of " unnatural" selection. I think all humans have a symbiotic relationships with one another.

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  107. I just started reading Fallon's book, "The Psychopath Inside". So far what I like about it is the way he describes the parts of the brain and how the brain is mapped. It's not as simple as many believe and as his research asserts, it's not just one part of the brain that makes one a psychopath; it's a combination of areas. He describes how these areas of the brain appear dark on brain scans because there is no activity taking place.

    Even though he discovered that he also has a psychopathic brain there is no doubt that he considers it damaged or maladaptive. He states “These areas are critical to understanding the psychopathic brain, for these, as well as orbital and ventromedial prefrontal cortices, are maldeveloped or have sustained early damage.” He goes on to add “But the pattern of decreased functioning across the entire complex of these limbic, prefrontal, and temporal cortices—whether due to prenatal development, perinatal maternal stress, substance abuse, direct trauma, or a severe rare combination of high risk genes…”.

    I find this interesting because many on this blog, including ME, have made references to how the sociopathic brain is superior when a neuroscientist who has this brain himself refers to it as damaged. But another point to this is just because you have this “damage” doesn’t mean you are going to kill someone or be a violent person. Fallon also explains how the terms “psychopath” and “sociopath” are interchangeable and how they are not diagnostic terms.

    MelissaR

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    1. It's not about having a superior brain, but a clearer brain. Thought processes are less clouded by empathic connections while simultaneously compensated in rational areas. This is why Fallon is a neuroscientist, and not an idiot, despite all of these darker regions.

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    2. Bob,

      I don't think there is any research that suggests empathy (or lack of) effects cognitive processes. All that Fallon is asserting is that lack of empathy means a lack of empathy.

      MelissaR

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    3. I agree. Empathy does not effect cognitive processes. Social aspects can play a decisive role in decision making of empaths. Anti-socials do not understand this at all. From a egocentric and "detached" point of view it is pathetic or cloudy.
      For example: At work: A social experienced coworker trains the fellows. An antisocial experienced coworker (and sociopath) makes some fellows believe that they made a mistake, even if they did not, in order to swarth the most talented junior competitor. From the socio standpoint any other approach is clouded. From the company' standpoint this approach is sabotage. That is why they try to find ways to filter out sociopaths from job candidates.
      &

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    4. But a sociopath would be better at making a hard decision, without considering the social or emotional ramifications, he would see to the heart of the issue, and that is often the most pragmatic action to take.

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    5. I understand it is inconvenient and difficult to understand, but as I just said, it makes things clearer than superior. Lack of empathy has a collateral effect, in that rational processes run unimpeded or braked by fewer non-rational processes. This is why rational-centric tests, like IQ, can score higher than average.

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  108. All the "innocent stuff" (celeb worship, rich folks as royalty, humiliation tv, plastic surgery as gifts to young people etc) came with a price tag: transformation. This struck me when I watched that Purge-movie, it was not really the "little story" that was deeply disturbing, it was the well made "context" of it all that made the impact. When media talks about psychopaths they usually talk about corporations, and what they really are saying between the lines are: good that such high-end folks run such important enterprises! Its the "weak empaths" that are in danger. Poor & sick folks have berely been tolerated by society so far. But maybe mentioned "transformation" has already started changes? Look at what happened to former "excessive welfare" states in scandinavia: rapid rise of former nazi parties to power & endless talk about "parasites"(poor) & "passive eaters"(sick)..

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    1. I actually really love the parallel between sociopathy and corporations, perhaps that is why I tend to identify more with corporations than the people who so often complain about them.

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  109. Dear M.E.,
    Sociopaths are NOT going to be "rounded up." They DO the
    "rounding up" like they did in Nazi Germany.
    But what is oblivious to most, is that the victims this go round, is
    going to be the white, Christian male.
    We are being culturally primed for the eradication of the white
    male.
    The sexualized icon of western society is the luscious white female.
    She is the displayed "prize" in media and advertising. (Probably,
    with many subliminal "sexes" in the picture.)
    Since the P.C. shibaleth holds that the white Christian male is
    "evil incarnate," a concerted effort is being made on a cultural and
    political level to encourage misconsegnation between black men
    and white women. The motivation behind this, is part cultural, and
    part vengance seeking.
    It is considered very chic to encourage such realationships both
    in media and acidemia.
    Since the standard of beauty is the white female, men of ALL
    races perfer relationships with her. The black woman can't
    compete. It's like an older drab model car, verses a coup de ville.
    There have been numerious comments about this throughout the
    net. This is easily seen if you watch reruns of the game show
    "The Family Feud," on the G.S.N. Black families are pitted aganist
    white families. The black female contestents are usually very
    obese and the white female contestents are pretty and shapely.
    Of course, this doesn't apply to ALL segments of society,but many.
    So with cradel to grave media encouragement, a deliberate effort
    is being made at "social enginnering."
    Being that the white Christian male is being marginalized and
    villified; "He has to pay for all the things he did," we see his
    presence dwindling in public. Affrimative action has squeezed him
    out. I go to the bank, for instance, and see nary a white male
    employee. I go to the department store, and see few white male
    employees. Where did they all go? Are they unemployed and at
    home swiging bottles of beer and nursing grudges? Or, have
    they abandoned the cities, and moved to rual areas and taken
    their mechanical vagina's and realistic foam rubber love dolls
    with them? White women are ENRAGED at white man's "wussiness."
    Only one conclusion can come from all this. There is an effort at
    genocide directed against the white Christian male. M.E. would be
    oblivious to this because she lives in Utah, which is still 98%
    white. It's interesting to note that in Denver CO., there was a
    robbery/mugging ring that targeted ONLY white males. What did
    the have planned for the white females? It shouldn't be hard to
    guess. It's also interesting to note, that on the rare occassions
    that a white male takes up with a black female, he is severly
    beaten or killed.
    Since the white female is a sex toy. And since the white man is
    today's opressed minority, I foresee active genocide against the
    white Christian male, and forced breeding of white female sex
    slaves.

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    1. Has money & political power in society been stolen from white males? And this has put them in a vulnerable position? If so: did this major change happen recently..?

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  110. i Always tilt my hean in order to make my bain all shift to one place and hopefully work a little

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    1. and than i see a shiny...

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  111. Once a person shows deviant behavior they should be punished according to the law regardless of diagnosis. Not every sociopath is out destroying others lives, some have adapted and learned better coping skills. Some BPD's are completely out of control and never improve, while others learn how to manage their disorder. It should be a case by case matter.

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  112. I find the notion that empaths would try to force their brain wiring on sociopaths to be fascinating for some reason that I can't quite express.

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  113. MR 17soontobe18 yr old socio
    The dangerousness is not in the brain wiring! it's in the intellectual operation. To make socios less 'dangerous' they must only mold & educate their ideals for them to adopt positive purposes. Socios are adaptable and observant children that act according the logic of their immediate environment. Their wiring is more developed and quick to decode situations, but their moral is determined by their surrounding's working logic. Truth is, they are 'evil' because their environment is hostile & they adapt to become so. Sociopath's are the surviving humans of the actual population, they are motivated to 'survive' no matter what, no matter how. They don't recur to suicidal measures (not literally, for they might for their own purposes), nor seem to be in the least influenced by society as to engage in its current self-destructive modus operandi. We mustn't aim to fix their ideas, we must aim to fix their conditions, which originates from society, hence the term sociopath. I believe that if we eradicate society's evolutionary defense mechanism, we might as well have a nuclear war and come to an end with our fate.
    ASPD- we figure there's a problem with the individual, but never consider it might be a response to a problem with society.
    Sociopaths (extroverts) & psychopaths (more of introverts) are conscious human beings that recognize a problem external to them at a very young age. They are logical in their thinking so act defensively to this outer threat, retreating, confronting, attacking the 'problem' (society). They are an individual defense mechanism, like the cells in our bodies. They adapt & learn from adverse experiences & become what we know them to be. Some may lack the guidance to realize their essential role in society's psychological health and become somewhat selfish, like Machiavelli, Hitler & Napoleon, that turn outwardly destructive or factiously motivated; while others more altruistic such as Kant, Marx & Gandhi, that turn socially influential & collectively motivated. They are both as capable of such things, it's only a matter of orientation.

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  114. Since sociopaths are found in all levels of society, it is most unlikely that those on top will ever be subjected to these types of brain surgery. Those on the lower levels, those who rob banks instead of run them, could become victims of the sort of savagery you describe. Then, again, any serious rebel or revolutionary in the 99% could be subject to mutilation of the brain "for the safety of society" guided by the elite.

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