Wednesday, July 24, 2013

Interview with a seducee (part 4)

(continued from here)

I didn't think too much about it when I got home. I remember thinking just one or two times thinking about the whole night in general and remember afterward telling people that I hadn't been talking to you anymore, but it was specifically, it was really when we were going to get those cables. You had driven and we were in the parking garage area and we had to get into an elevator to get into the store, which I found odd. All of the sudden there was a lightness and a comfort between us, and maybe it was a newfound comfort in someone that you've kissed or shared enough conversation or time in one day that we're able to coexist in the same store or the same location with a lightness as opposed to all of the awkwardness of times past, that was very refreshing and exciting.

We were talking about this person you were dating long distance and also this other person who you told me about with whom you felt there was something going on there, something less than a relationship so far but that person was going to go to see you play and was either more interested in you than you wanted, but essentially you were sharing with me the parameters of having to balance three people at the same time and that that was a little bit more, perhaps, than you had anticipated at the time. I remember distinctly feeling at the time that I was no better or worse than them and certainly wasn't competitive with them. I either stand on my own or I don't. I wasn't taken aback in any way by the idea that you were either dating other people or you weren't, it was more the fact of the matter. But I remember, just by the way you were characterizing those people, thinking about how I would be characterized and thought of myself in terms of an explanation to someone else through your words and cautioned myself when I noticed even just standing in the elevator that I wanted to be physical with you, to touch you, kiss you, push you against the wall and kiss you, and show that physical sexual aggressiveness because of an intensity I was feeling. I knew that had to be controlled because whatever feelings I was having had to be tempered by the fact that it didn't appear that there was anything sustainable about whatever this was.

[regarding different sides of m.e.] I wouldn't say you seem like you have been different persons, I realize I have said that a lot in this narrative, but for me it's more those first impressions that you take from someone -- all those assessments that we make about people based in that blink and we roll from there and they either end up proving or disproving initial theories. I don't feel like you morphed into some different person or character so much that I had made different assumptions about you, and that's not even to say that your actions in one particular instance proved or disproved those assumptions, it just felt as if it was an out of character experience based on those assumptions. I don't know if the narrative sounded negative, I hope it didn't. I tried to be honest about what I felt in the situation, but I wouldn't be talking to you tonight if I thought that you had been disingenuous with me and showed all these different characteristics that had you as angry, liar, etc. If I thought those were actual aspects of your personality, I don't think I would still be in contact with you.

My biggest frustration with you is openness, transparency. I wish you would be more open with me, even if it was blunt or harsh. I guess because you don't tell me everything I assume there are lots of bad things that you aren't telling me; I feel like you are holding things back, calculating. You're just more reserved about things, I guess. That's probably smart, to approach things that way, be more protective of yourself. And I'm the opposite, this verbal diarrhea thing. At first, I probably should have never been as open to you, but by now I'm convinced that we've shared enough experiences, whether you can add them up on one hand or not, that I do have an idea of who you are. I don't have a problem sharing myself with you. I can't ask that you return that, but I feel that particularly where it feels the most confusing is that there was such an awkwardness about that email and us being together, there were these awkward moments for me and I guess I think that nothing is ever entirely clear but I just wish that this was a little more clear. Can't that just be the case? I just remember you saying things like "I thought about what it would be like to date you," and what goes through my mind when I hear that is that you've thought about the possibly of (1) dating and being with someone like me and (2) whether that would be a secret relationship, because I think of you as a plotting and calculating person, because you wouldn't go through any decision making process blind, so I was trying to think about what you would even think about to make that sort of statement to me.

You know, I still wonder why. Why the manipulation?


  1. I'm starting to think this is a fictional narrative of m.e's perception of how someone perceives him/her...
    It's too strange that someone would devote this much effort into describing you...

    Judge Judy says "if it doesnt make sense, its probably not true."


  2. As an empath..we can go on and on.


  3. Sorry I wasn't finished(see what I mean)we are trying to figure it all out as if we will get somewhere with it and hoping we will find and answer and then think..aha that's why..and then everything will be ok. I don't think it ever happens. That's my experience and in the end it was just a matter of acceptance...accepting the relationship was over.


  4. lol, i noticed the way empaths go on and on, at least here, like some stream of consciousness verbal oil spill. what is the deal with that?

    Grace, analyzing a thing never gets you anywhere, you just end up going in circles. forget WHY, and pay attention to WHAT and HOW. Especially HOW.

    and i was just thinking the other night surely i am one ... one step forward, two steps back... oh well :/

  5. skeptic said...
    I'm starting to think this is a fictional narrative of m.e's perception of how someone perceives him/her...
    It's too strange that someone would devote this much effort into describing you...

    i was wondering that too. posting a letter from a co-worker seems risky.

  6. Zoe said: "lol, i noticed the way empaths go on and on, at least here, like some stream of consciousness verbal oil spill. what is the deal with that?"

    I don't know Zoe. It's like we are investigating a crime I think it's part of a healing process but it can also trigger other feelings and that's where the verbal oil spill comes from.


  7. The world will never know if M.E.'s just fucking with us, as he often seems to do so.

  8. Hey, not to change the subject, but I was wondering if anyone has had their email site hacked into since they have been reading this site? I just had mine hacked into. All my contacts were sent a link to a site about Viagra. My best friend actually thought I was serious about the link. Shows you where her head is at. She was disappointed to find out that I did not have a stock of Viagra just waiting to be shipped

    I'm mentioning this because of a conversation that Grace and I were having related to concerns we both had about revealing too much info about ourselves. PP was in on that too. I'm not trying to accuse anyone. Just curious. Sorry to get off topic.

  9. "hoping we will find and answer and then think..aha that's why..and then everything will be ok."

    I can so identify with this. And no, I don't believe it is part of the healing process. It actually keeps you stuck. There is no rhyme or reason for why you were manipulated the way you were. There will never be an adequate answer for this.

    I used to go on & on in my head. Like crazy riddles, looking for answers.

    Bottom line is that you were as entertaining as a toy and now you hold no interest for that person. He has found something else to distract him. Because there is no emotional investment on his part, it really is that simple.

    Meanwhile, you are left picking up the emotional pieces that have shattered in your life.

    Sweep them up and try not put so much importance on the whole experience, except to learn from it. Some people who come into your life simply serve as warning. The more importance you give it, the more it tortures you.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. I had to go back to the first part of the series. One has to use the seduction tag to find the first two.

      In any way this series completes for me the presentation of the love triangle as evidence of psychopathy in the book. Put another way it did not completely convince me as evidence.

      This struck me: "Then, feeling much worse about the whole arrangement than before, I reneged on my attempt to get out of dinner and instead went back to having dinner with you and decided that I would just have to leave work early to get dinner supplies."

      Personally whenever I ignored the type of more instinctual No's and allowed others do make me do something against my deeper instincts I paid severely. Especially when I did not want to date someone. Not necessarily the way the story suggests, I am close to a-sexual and have problems to fulfill expectations anyway. Hardly would I have accepted slaps or choking of any type. But I am interested in people. Sexuality often reduces communications to bodily merging sensation. Ultimately an illusion, you will always come back as two separate entities...

      The set up is horrible. The whole series of necessary preparations including the candle light dinner suggestion it triggers would have made me sick in the circumstances, I guess. Including associatively present associations. Concerning Love. What is it? The same as it was for Plato's Socrates? The search for the ideal other half? Or the desire to conquer to capture?

      For whatever reason I do not agree with people here that this feels made up. If it is, it is a perfect simulation of a confused mind searching for answers. Which in itself would deserve praise.

      I like "verbal diarrhea", sounds familiar.

      If I may return to Jodi Arias in this setting. I haven't paid much attention to the case. But it somehow suggested to me, Arias may have allowed the man she later killed to create an Jodi persona, she couldn't ultimately live with. She had too kill him to make that "Jodi" go away with all her longings and desires he triggered.

    3. I guess, I wanted either "in any case" or "anyway" here:

      In any way

  10. Bizy said "I can so identify with this. And no, I don't believe it is part of the healing process. It actually keeps you stuck."

    That's true Bizy but eventually it passed. I couldn't seem to just forget about all of it. I was in no way prepared for an encounter like that…not emotionally or intellectually. I may know better now but it had to happen that way for me to learn...unfortunately.

    I'm not going to say it will never happen to me again but I sure do laugh at that thought.


  11. Grace,

    Good lord woman! Just the thought of it happening again makes me laugh at the ridiculousness. I just don't think I could make that journey again. My soul is just too tired, you know?

    You are right, though. There does seem to be a familiar process that one goes through after experiencing the trauma of such an ordeal. is riddled with such examples. I just hate to see people truly stuck in that particular phase. I don't think some people ever get out and so they seem to me to be stuck in the victim role & never reempower themselves.

  12. Hi Grace and Bizy
    Hope you don't mind if I say a couple things here with regard to what you are talking about. You are absolutely right about how exausting the process that one goes through to try to understand why, is. I do agree that one has to just come to the conclusion that there are no answers to the specifics related to the relationship (conversations, betrayals, lies etc). Knowledge is definitely power. If a person can have an understanding of the personality they were dealing with, that in itself answers pretty much all the questions. It has at least for me. This site and the willingness of the socios to address my questions has been extremely helpful to me too.

  13. 2 said: "The world will never know if M.E.'s just fucking with us, as he often seems to do so."

    There is a reality to the story 2. Do you relate to your end of it weather it's fiction or not? Has anyone ever communicated to you what they experienced with you? I can't tell if it's bullshit or not. But then that's part of my problem isn't

    Zan, I'm a straight A student and I have had many life experiences but I still got f...ked!! These people should be working as spies or something like that.

    No Bizy.... I could never go through that again...but there was something very intriguing about my ex..if I could just have had the relationship without all the emotions that would have been great. But then I guess I would be a sociopath too


  14. BizyLizy you have a very simplistic point of view on a complex issue. You (lovefrauders/victims) need answers on why you seek sociopathic people, and how to deal with them. Most, not all, sociopaths don't go into relationships with some nefarious scheme to use you like a toy.

  15. Hey UK,
    Where have you been? You missed out on a triple date on another thread. We were in the planning but we couldn't decide on where to go. Daniel wanted to book a room immediately. After that was nixed, he left the scene. I don't think Zoe even knew that she was going on a It's very hard to coordinate things with people these

    BTW, I was doing some reading and I found out that many people are getting their emails hacked into. It is my understanding that passwords got stolen from a "free internet service provider". They would not specify which one. So just wanted to let everyone know about it so you can stay secure. Change your passwords frequently and make sure they are strong ones.

    I realized after I wrote my last post having to do with my email being hacked into that it seemed to be eluding to a relationship between this site and the hack job. I appologize for that. It wasn't meant to do that. I mentioned this site in relationship to it because of the conversation that Grace and I had on a previous thread regarding revealing info about ourselves on this site.

    Have a great 4th everyone!


  16. Zan: "There is a reality to the story 2. Do you relate to your end of it weather it's fiction or not? Has anyone ever communicated to you what they experienced with you?"

    I don't relate much to this story at all. I actually found it uninteresting to a certain extent.

    Honestly, when people do tell me their experience with me, it depends. Some of the people are glad that I'm nice to them. Some are just blissfully ignorant of who I really am and love me. Some cry and sob at me. Then there's occasionally weird noise they make that sounds animalistic.

    Oh, and like UK will probably agree, there are some (just one, actually) that trust the real me entirely and enjoy my existence, no strings attached.

  17. 2...gotta go out to a friend's house. Probably won't get to respond to your question until tonight or tomorrow. I have to think about it. Oh, I am just realizing from reading Zoe's comments that you probably meant to address this to Zoe. Zan and Zoe, kind of confusing, I know....hmmm I'm a poet! Have a great day!

  18. 2 said:"Oh, and like UK will probably agree, there are some (just one, actually) that trust the real me entirely and enjoy my existence, no strings attached"

    It's not a question of not enjoying someones existence...I may enjoy your existence because I have no strings attached either. You would just have to be honest with me from the get go. Or maybe you just expect people to read you right on their own and if that works out then great but if you have to be honest then forget it and what ever happens..happens? Am I right?

    Bizy..what the hell is I'm afraid to even check that

    Happy 4th Zan! I think 2 was responding to me..Zan thanks for the tip about changing passwords. I never do that so I'm going to now. Tomorrow is my birthday and my girlfriend is having a pool party for me tonight at her house.
    Time to chill!!

  19. above is from Grace.

  20. My friends are few. My friends respect me, because I earned their respect. They know me for what I am. I have literally three of them, and they tell me I'm cool to be around in small doses. I respect them because I can be real around them and they can take how imposing I can be.
    My aquaintences are many. They see a facade and respect me. They don't have my respect but I tolerate them because they serve a purpose.
    My associates are different. They understand our relationship is business, no more or less. They are much like me and I treat them with respect, but keep vigiliant.
    The difference in how I treat people is how much value I place in them. That's not to say you will be valuable tommorrow if you were today.

  21. UK,
    It's all so fleeting and one sided. So sad for all involved. The people that have come to trust you that you cast aside, in their bewildered state come to miss out on the wonderful qualities that you had to offer them and others associated. You miss out on knowing the true specialness of all the people you have said "so long" to.

    What happens within you when someone that you find useful and count on says "so long" to you? Do you feel bitter and angry? I don't believe that in a situation like that, that you would feel indifferent given that they had a use in your life. How would you handle such a situation?


  22. Ukan needs a douche and a lobotomy.

  23. @ Anon uly 5, 2010 2:10 AM

    For me, I have had friends come and go. Many that have cut me off, and in worse ways than I ever have.

    As for how I take it when someone cuts me off? Well.. that is how I deal with it lol "oh, they cut me off, sips a tall glass of wine" I then continue with whatever it was Iwas doing before getting cut off. Does that bother you ? I lack the emotional punch that you have. Should I fake it ? :)

    1. cry like a little girle than ask a cutie to help you get over it

    2. Aw, babby can't deal with own emotions?

    3. i need a hug

    4. here take one from me.

      my narcissistic friend i dont talk to i think about . i cannot believe i let this woman waste my time all those years. it feels very very good to cut her off. she will never contact me, thank goodness for her pride. i know she hurts too. Found out i was onto her game and bolted in shame. She found out what i really thought about her--that she is phony-- and she bolted. She cannot handle it of she isn't held in the highest regard. I think that is a clue on how to get rid of a narcissist. If they feel you do not admire them they cannot handle it. They would rather go no contact from you than sit knowing they dont look good in your eyes.

    5. ppl Always think psychopaths hurt 2
      so keep thinking that

    6. Well in her case she is grievkng believe me. When her ex best friend dumped her abt 15 yrs ago she wouldnt stop bringing it up. She is very introspective and had a shit load of therapy for depression. We had that in common and she treasured the fact we spoke the same language. She would talk about how she was the constant in talking about hervrelationship problems. She would ask me once in a while for input and but I didnt want to make her feel worse abt herself by telling her how i could understand how annoying and mean she really did not know she was. Shes the crying narcissist.

      I talked only about howvshe made me feel,Which was that i could see her getting off on my problems. This girl salivates when she watches wife swap. Yeah she watches all the reality programs where people are beneath her and she dissects them in a mocking manner. She couldntbsee herself when it came to me. Shed separate me as an extention of herself. have no doubt given what she knows abt my background that she tells herself my damage was showing when I dumped her which i never did. She dumped me.but i didnt chase her back. This constitutes a divorce to her. The fact i never wanted to chase her back knowing she was hurting....This no doubt is causing her grief. She treasured our relationshil and told me that many times. I totally think she has the capacity to see herself but she has such a condescending manner . This I also told her. This she may never see. I told her too many times and she couldnt see it.

      I ve brought her up here before.

    7. She never mocked me. She would ask me abt problems and then dissect telling herself in her head how much better she wouldvhandle stuff given her highblevel of self esteem haha.

  24. I admit that I really don't care very much about my purported friends. I earnestly wish them well, but I wouldn't miss them if they suddenly dropped off the face of the earth. I consider most relationships to be a necessary pain in the ass, on account of all the upkeep they require. My pattern has always been to eventually drop people abruptly- not because I have deliberately or spitefully sought to cut them off, but simply because I could not be bothered to invest enough time and energy to sustain the relationships.

    When I am brutally honest with myself, I am forced to acknowledge that this is because I "care" only very superficially. Yet strangely, I have never considered myself a "bad friend", even though my life-long pattern of dropping people without explanation clearly indicates that I am. I know that I have hurt others through my interpersonal negligence, but I have never felt an iota of remorse for dropping any of these people- even the ones who thought they were close.

    With the notable exception of my husband, my life is conspicuously bereft of intimate friendships- and I have no desire to cultivate any. I don't lean on other people for emotional support. Long-time members of this board probably know me more intimately than my closest family members. I appreciate the catharsis provided by self-disclosure, but only on my own, detached, impersonal terms.

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  26. I have to assume M.E. is on vacation, so that's why we're getting repeat
    postings. No matter however, because this gives me the oppertunity to give
    a brief tutorial on a wonderful personality typing system called Chaldean
    numerology. This is a secret form of numerology that very few are aware of.
    Lookie here:

    31351 41215 1545751
    =13 =13 =28
    =4 =4 =1 =9

    The number 9 would be an entire summation of Casey Marie Anthony's life.
    But, in gaging the personality, we use the everyday name:

    4 + 1 =5

    Each number has it's characteristics. The traits of the number 5 are
    stimulation seeking and sex. The two 13's in Casey's first and middle
    names mean that Casey's "public" persona (How the world sees her.)
    is one of mysteries and secrets. What actually happened to the child?
    We'll never REALLY know. Casey's middle or "inner" name is also 13.
    This means that Casey doesn't even understand herself why she does the
    things she does. So she has to lie to protect herself from all the self
    harming activities she engages in.

    1741 155 12113
    =13 =11 =8
    =4 =11 =8
    4 + 11 + 8= 23= 5.

    Jodi's "public" name number is also 13. She also had secrets to hide
    from the world. Jodi's middle "hidden" name number is 11. 11 is a
    "master" number, and is never reduced. Master numbers are either very
    good or very bad. In Jodi's case it was very bad. The summation of Jodi's
    life is number 23=5. Again, we have a carnalistic sex seeking individual.
    Jodi's every day number Jodi Arias is 12. Number 12 is often on a spiritual quest. Jodi was everything from a Wiccan to a Latterday Saint.
    So, in summation, look into Chaldean numerology. This is NOT to be
    confused with the more common Pythagorean system, which is an abject
    failure when it comes to acessing personality. False teachings get
    disseminated to confuse and manipilate people. I'm giving you truth.

    1. what do you do when nicknames used more often than the legal names?

  27. Does this woman sound like a complete idiot or what? I mean the one in the post, a loser trying to attach to nobody.

    1. It's hard to believe that UKan has gone transgender as well.

    2. UkANita is NOT UKan. Got it?

  28. Nice tweet! It's good to see that Emmie has a sense of humor.

  29. oh, ME you have a challenge ahead of you.

    Trying to make ya right. did you really think we would fall for this shit? Of course you did!!!

    No, I did not buy the book. Why would I? you gave it all


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