Thursday, June 23, 2011

Seeing psychopaths for what they are

A reader sent this very long selection from "The Psychopath Test", which appears to have the most salient parts. Some selections:
Everyone in the field seemed to regard psychopaths in this same way: inhuman, relentlessly wicked forces, whirlwinds of malevolence, forever harming society but impossible to identify unless you're trained in the subtle art of spotting them, as I now was.
***
Becoming a psychopath-spotter had turned me power-crazed and a bit psychopathic. I was starting to see the checklist as an intoxicating weapon that was capable of inflicting terrible damage if placed in the wrong hands. And I was beginning to suspect that my hands might be the wrong hands.

I met up with Hare again. "It's quite a power you bestow upon people," I said. "What if you've created armies of people who spot psychopaths where there are none, witchfinder generals of the psychopath-spotting world?"
***
Journalists hardly ever made it to a DSPD unit and I was curious to see inside. According to Maden, the chief clinician at Tony's unit, it wouldn't exist without Hare's psychopath check-list. Tony was there because he had scored high on it, as had all 300 DSPD patients. The official line was that these were places to treat psychopaths with a view to one day sending them back out into the world. But the widespread theory was the whole thing was in fact a scheme to keep psychopaths locked up for life.
***
I wondered if sometimes the difference between a psychopath in Broadmoor and a psychopath on Wall Street was the luck of being born into a stable, rich family.
***
"Ever since I went on a Bob Hare course, I've believed that psychopaths are monsters," I said. "They're just psychopaths – it's what defines them, it's what they are." I paused. "But isn't Tony kind of a semi-psychopath? A grey area? Doesn't his story prove that people in the middle shouldn't necessarily be defined by their maddest edges?"

"I think that's right," he replied. "Personally, I don't like the way Bob Hare talks about psychopaths almost as if they are a different species. . . . I would also say you can never reduce any person to a diagnostic label. Tony has many endearing qualities when you look beyond the label."

100 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Sometimes i wounder "do i really want this?" Then life, memories and everything in my memory castle throws the answer back at me.

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  3. This reminds me of "Minority Report". Maybe DPSD is just the beginning of a new police. Maybe we are entering an era in which psychopaths are hunted down and imprisoned. It sure looks like it. Since when are we allowed to use prejudice for imprisoning people?

    Well, we'll just have to wait and see...

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  4. neo-hitler is a movement, a network, of individuals and law enforcement seeking to out, and waste pychopaths who break laws and harm others.

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  5. Memory castle, Wet. Vivid image.

    Being given life is a privilege. Who is outing those who follow those tenets? Perhaps Jon Ronson and Robert Hare are chasing half the story. And when one only chases half the story it is like building sand castles.

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  6. neohitler loves psychopath, as well all varieties and degrees of being.

    yet, those who have the real-life impulse to intentionally harm others for pleasure will be laid to waste.

    the top goal of neo-hitler is to elevate the universe, as the constructive beauty of the universe points, so does neo-hitler point in the direction of construction, well-being and health.

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  7. Where did you guys heard of this neo hitler movement? I searched the web and didn't find anything. This is the first time I ever heard of it.

    On the other hand I heard of neo-nazi's. Is that the same thing you are talking about?

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  8. I don't like this Jon Ronson goof ball, he's ugly.

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  9. What did Stalin and Hitler have in common? Both were mama's boy's hehehe! ! !

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  10. As long as there are people that are different from the cultural majority you will always have witchhunters.

    As has been my experience, it's easier to spot the hunters than it is for them to spot me and I can taylor my behavior according if I choose to. Be aware of your surroundings. Open your eyes.

    People are less likely to maintain eye contact if you're willing to stare them down.

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  11. "the top goal of neo-hitler is to elevate the universe, as the constructive beauty of the universe points, so does neo-hitler point in the direction of construction, well-being and health."

    Good god boy you keep getting nuttier. You better not let your mother find out. She might take away your x-box.

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  12. bitch, we dont care if all you think about, and would love to do, is what casey anthony has done.

    yet neo-hitler will see to it, your are wasted if you intentionally maliciously harm other beings.

    wtf do you think there are laws for?

    to put people who do these things away, so they cant do it again.

    duh.

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  13. ("As long as there are people that are different from the cultural majority you will always have witchhunters.")

    There are legit reasons to identify psychopaths, psychopaths don't help society in any way. They live off people's hard work, they abuse people, they oppress people and in some cases rape and kill others. The "witch hunt" is completely justified.

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  14. Janet I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second.

    As is commonly accepted: the known, interviewable, population of psychopaths are criminals. People that for whatever reason were low-functioning enough in some moment or in general that they were incarcerated.

    However. There is no evidence that this is the only type of psychopath available to the population. It is quite possible that there are many high functioning productive members of society. But since they have no criminal record, and are no dumb enough to out their PD, there is no way to establish this experimental group of people. People that true, have no empathy for their neighbors, but are fully capabale of living lives within the accepted norms and laws without being a detriment to society.

    "They live off people's hard work, they abuse people, they oppress people and in some cases rape and kill others."

    I know normally-empathic people that fit this description easily. And let's face it. There are far more NTs that have committed horrific crimes in the prison systems and in the world. You don't have to single out P/S types if you're looking for monsters.

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  15. nobody gives a fuck about p'paths, they are only marked when they commit a crime.

    duh.

    the problem is when p'paths make the laws, as in the case of cheney.

    empathy means you respond to how other people feel.

    people might ride at 33/0.

    like myself, 33 degrees of empathy out of 100, and 0 degrees out of 100 for getting pleasure out of maliciously fucking other people up.

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  16. what numbers do you ride at?

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  17. "the problem is when p'paths make the laws, as in the case of cheney."

    Was there a report that said Cheney was an S/P? Just curious because honestly I don't know about the guy to say yes or no. As far as I know he is the general greedy republican. Also, I don't think Cheney is in office anymore.

    "like myself, 33 degrees of empathy out of 100, and 0 degrees out of 100 for getting pleasure out of maliciously fucking other people up."

    O come now. Really just 33? I mean so you have really low empathy? 0? Please. Like you have never tripped anyone in the hall and then laughed when they fell flat on their face. I mean that deserves at least a 10. Or when you come on here and spout how worthless S/P are. That deserves at least 30. I mean it is pretty malicious the way you are coming after us. Isn't it? Don't you understand the way that it makes me feel? Come on. You have empathy right? I mean if you don
    t.... That is pretty sociopathic then isn't it?

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  18. "O come now. Really just 33? I mean so you have really low empathy? 0? Please. Like you have never tripped anyone in the hall and then laughed when they fell flat on their face. I mean that deserves at least a 10."

    come on you know as well as i do fuckin people up some is fine, of course when they are not "permanently" or "irreparably" damaged or injured in any way.

    case in point:
    that one 'path who streamed his dorm roommate fuckin another dude was malicious. other type casey anthony shit on the news same thing.

    33/0 means 33 degrees empathy out of 100 and 0 for wanting to maliciously fuk people over, this doesn't include small time fucking people over fun, such as farting hard in someones face when you walk by them in the bleachers.

    at the moment i dont feel like i really have "very warm feelings" for anyone so therefore i ride at about 33 for empathy.

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  19. cheney has fuckin people over maiciously worldwide, as president of haliburton and offshoot companies, cheney has cause the death and ill health of millions:

    ecuador oil spill
    the sucralose sweetner
    iraq operation
    and numerous others

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  20. O so the rules don't apply for you. That is pretty sociopathic. All you do is fine. Also by your definition if I'm not killing or dismembering people which is the only thing that does real permanent damage to people right? I mean they can recover from money loss and having their feelings hurt right?

    I understand what the 33 means. I'm just saying that seems like a slim amount. Because the other side of it is that you are missing 2/3rds of the empathy possible. Which means you are more unemphatic then you are emphatic.

    Is that ok by your standards? Because it sounds like you are a bad person by your owns standards. I mean it is ok to fuck people up as long as you don't think it really/permanently hurts them. Are you just going to change more rules for yourself? So you don't fit the definition of a bad person.

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  21. So where do you take this test/figure out your numbers?

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  22. Why does that make him a Sociopath? Maybe he honestly thought all that was in his country's best interest and/or was just an accident.

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  23. So where do you take this test/figure out your numbers?

    They are just children making numbers up without any real thought to it.

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  24. I score 0/100. I am the ultimate tool of evil.

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  25. ("However. There is no evidence that this is the only type of psychopath available to the population. It is quite possible that there are many high functioning productive members of society. But since they have no criminal record, and are no dumb enough to out their PD, there is no way to establish this experimental group of people. People that true, have no empathy for their neighbors, but are fully capabale of living lives within the accepted norms and laws without being a detriment to society.")

    Low functioning or high functiong a sociopath is a sociopath and they will always be abusers in some way.

    High fucntioning doesn't mean jack shit the sociopath will ruin others, how can a "child" that murdered helpless animals go on to become a productive member of society? All psychopaths are narcissists and all will act as they please. You obviously haven't been damaged by one of these creatures.

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  26. Give me one diagnosed psychopath that doesn't fuck people over in one way or another, there are none! You talk about these ("good psychopaths") which i find laughable.

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  27. "Also by your definition if I'm not killing or dismembering people which is the only thing that does real permanent damage to people right? I mean they can recover from money loss and having their feelings hurt right?"

    well, large money theft as in the case of madoff is malicious.

    i dont care if you stole someones shitty car, and they got paid more through insurance, in fact you probably helped them, and am referring to things considered "malicious". hard-core things like casey anthony type shit, or knowingly poisoning drinking water by illegally dumping chemicals, obviously.

    those are legitimately malicious.

    the line is clearly seen:

    so i fucked your girlfriend, or wife, so? big deal, she still loves you, i just gave her some variety.

    no big deal.

    or i stole a mil. from the bank, no big deal, it's covered by insurances, and the gov't basically steals through tax dollars, so fuck it, i'll take it, of course WITHOUT maliciously putting people lives at risk by armed robbery.

    madoff was clearly malicious because he wiped out entire retirement accounts of people who worked 50+ years to build them up, now that is malicious and what i am talking about.

    i ride at 33/0 for empathy/wanting to maliciously fuck people over.

    at the moment i feel like i dont only 33 degrees out of 100 on empathy, that could change, but weather 0-100 it doesn't matter, as long as there is an extremely low number for wanting to fuck people over maliciously.

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  28. So in others words it is just maliciousness you are after. That is all. You think that S/P are the only ones capable of doing things maliciously? Get serious you ignorant imbecile. You just want to root out that trait. Then look for it everywhere. Stop being fucking stupid and actually analyze what you are saying and thinking for a second. You have no ability to do you?

    Janet you deserved everything you got. Now stop crying about you cunt.

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  29. I haven't gotten to that chapter yet. I'll rather wait and read it as I go.

    Oh, I notice there's a note about Tony, the guy who got stuck in Broadmoore insanity asylum. I'm reading that chapter today, when i have the time.

    "Ever since I went on a Bob Hare course, I've believed that psychopaths are monsters,"

    I'll look forward to see if Hare is leading that course himself. He seems to understand we're just people, but some of the phrasings in his texts can be very... 'negative'. :)


    Janet,
    There are legit reasons to identify psychopaths, psychopaths don't help society in any way.

    And you know this, because... because you know all psychopaths? There's a reason for researchers wanting more information from psychopaths who are not coerced into supplying info because it's the only way out of jail.

    BUt then, I'm sure you believe those who are antisocial in every way are so merely because they're evil, right? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with society itself and the restricted norms and lack of recognition of everything that isn't mainstream and mediocre.

    Low functioning or high functiong a sociopath is a sociopath and they will always be abusers in some way.

    Ohh, and you normal folks are not abusers? C'mon, lady, who are you trying to fool besides yourself? Use your head, you clearly have a brain, I wish you'd use it constructively and stop repeating slogans from a textbook.

    So, you've had a very bad experience, I recognize that. But don't generalize, because you have no knowledge to back it up with.

    Arh, I'm talking to someone who's become a follower of a new religion, it'll take more than a nice post to open their eyes.

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  30. the girlfriend/wife you fuk'ed for varietyJune 23, 2011 at 1:48 PM

    Thank you I really did enjoy the sex. My boyfriend/husband thank you too.

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  31. "All psychopaths are narcissists and all will act as they please. You obviously haven't been damaged by one of these creatures."

    You obviously, are new here. Don't jump to conclusions that make you look ignorant little girl.

    I had just been playing devil's advocate. Now, however, I have lost interest in you and your inability to provide any kind of reasoned argument. Bored now.

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  32. I think the only porson that fears sociopaths being 'outed' is M.E. The others don't even care.

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  33. "I'm sure you believe those who are antisocial in every way are so merely because they're evil, right? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with society itself and the restricted norms and lack of recognition of everything that isn't mainstream and mediocre."

    oh, ye, it's societies fault that psychopaths are the way they are. that's a bullshit excuse.

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  34. Psychopaths don't blame society or anyone else, they have no understanding of society.

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  35. "So in others words it is just maliciousness you are after. That is all."

    absolutely, as stated neo-hitler loves 'path, p'paths, and all degrees and forms of being, even those who fuck people over in a non-malicious way.

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  36. the bad of psychopaths is that they lack empathy. some argue that they have empathy and use it to get enjoyment out of the suffering they create

    the bad of psychopaths is that they enjoy hurting people, they like to create and see suffering, in the same way maybe an NT enjoys seeing a baby smile

    and they enjoy creating this through lies and more lies and being whatever it takes to create an illusion that will fool someone to give them what they want at the total expense of the mark or victim

    not having empathy at worst makes you rude and lacking understanding

    psychopaths lack remorse and have no conscience. this is the part that extends into their destructiveness.

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  37. but, honestly what are some examples of fuckin people over non-maliciously:

    ripping a huge fart is kesu's face with ass only two inches from his nose in the movies.

    throwing a big bucket of dogshit out over the audience at the theater.

    these sorts of fuck overs only lend to the playful exciting side of life, they do no real harm.

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  38. why does everything you say involve fucking people up and over? why have you still not realised that the word 'fucking' has a g on the end?

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  39. I put the king in fucking

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  40. neo-hitler doesn't give a fuk why a person maliciously harms another for no reason, he just puts a bullet in their head.

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  41. Your definition of 'malicious' seems to be very subjective but you speak of it as objective.

    You make the rules up as you go along, eh? Based around your opinions.

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  42. What the fuck is neo hitler?

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  43. if you want to take an empathy test to compare, then here is simon baron-cohen's one - he's a reputable psychologist.

    whaddya know, i'm below average.

    empathy doesn't matter at all, you can still understand that someone else is in a state of mind which you need to adapt your strategy to, you don't have to actually care about them.

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  44. "What the fuck is neo hitler?"

    The idiot ravings of a 14 year old who has taken to this blog over the last week.

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  45. I got a 13 on that test Res.

    Your score: 13
    0 - 32 = low (most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 20)
    33 - 52 = average (most women score about 47 and most men score about 42)
    53 - 63 is above average
    64 - 80 is very high
    80 is maximum

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  46. Badass SociopathJune 23, 2011 at 3:19 PM

    I took the test and it came up "too evil cannot rate"

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  47. Defiant sociopathJune 23, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    i ain't gonna take your fucking test and you can't make me. i don't play by anybody's rules, not even my own.

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  48. dispersing a can of dog diarrhea out over the audience at the theater from the balcony is not malicious.

    offering your ass up at the brothel when you knowingly test positive for hiv, and not telling your buttfuckers, is.

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  49. i have all the empathy and compasion of a brick

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  50. "i have all the empathy and compasion of a brick"

    Yeah that sounds about right haha. I can't be bothered to take the test.

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  51. empathy only means you care about how someone else feels.

    it doesnt even matter if you have empathy or not, why does it?

    as long as you dont maliciously hurt anyone then fuk it, who cares?

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  52. Brb necrophelia

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  53. i have all the empathy and compassion of a great white. all i do is maim and kill and i don't give half a fuck about how you feel about it cos i'm gonna cut your genitals out lol.

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  54. who's the best serial killer of all time?

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  55. neo-hitler has added you to the hit-list.

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  57. neo-hitler loves and supports all varieties and degrees of being, but ends those who maliciously harm others for no reason.

    neo-hitler is undefined, and will execute the highest premise: "elevate the universe", without restriction to form or substance, neo-hitler is like a vessel formed from play-dough, and "becomes" whatever is poured into the vessel, therefore neo-hitler is formless, as the playdough itself can be re-shaped according to current goals, therefore neo-hitler has no limitations and is essentially "formless","limitless" and "omniscient" to meet the goal of the moment and situation perfectly. the ability to transcend anything and everything clearly defines neo-hitler, yet is a descendant of the archetype: "elevate the universe".

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  58. You are funny. The name "neo hitler" contains so much irony the hypocrisy drips like butter. In order to elevate the universe I believe you need a better name. Just for branding issues, of course.

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  59. neo-hitler is an an "evolved" "hitler" who has realized the goal was to actually to waste those who maliciously harm others for no reason, at first it was thought the jews must be wasted, but after a time growth in the neo-hitler consciousness and reaching full-awareness, neo-hitler now understands he must recalibrate his "targets" to include only those who maliciously harm others for no reason, and thereby excluding all others without limitation according to ethnicity, race, greed, philosophy, orientation, intelligence, emotional capacity, and non-malicious fuking people over.

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  60. Lol, you sound like one one of those kids who end up shooting up their schools and topping themselves. I'm guessing you've been "maliciously fucked over" by kids in the playground. Or you're more likely just an idiot who's living out his fantasy life online and you'll never actually act on any of this shit.

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  61. neo-hitler is a movement, a network, that has become tired of hearing about all the assholes in the news fucking other people up maliciously for no reason, and has formed to put a stop to that.

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  62. Looks like Janet is Ms. Lonely Hearts fresh from a broken relationship with a sociopath.

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  63. Yeah your good at reading your script aren't you. Let me guess it's just you and your mate billy in the movement and your headquartes is down in your mums celler.

    Janet got lost on her way to lovefraud

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  64. @Res... I just took that link test. I scored 32. WTF?!? does that even mean?

    There are so many issues with that thing. The ones that stood out most for me...

    "Seeing people cry doesn't really upset me"…. It doesn’t upset me in the sense that I’m also made to be sad and unhappy. It upsets me in the sense that I’m extremely annoyed that someone would act that way in public.

    "I can easily tell if someone else wants to enter a conversation". AND "I can pick up quickly if someone says one thing but means another." AND "I am good at predicting how someone will feel." AND "I am quick to spot when someone in a group is feeling awkward or uncomfortable…."

    Do these things really have to do with Empathy? I’m a good observer. People are pretty obvious if you open oyur eyes.

    "Friends usually talk to me about their problems as they say that I am very understanding."

    I’m objective and don’t coddle them. I give honest opinions and all too often hurt their feelings. Perhaps my friends are more evolved in the fact that they are willing to listen to reason?

    So what does that mean for me exactly? whatever.

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  65. neo-hitler goes after beings who are at least 100/90. therefore a being can have any number of degrees 1-100 of empathy, but if the being has over 90 degrees out of 100 of desiring to fuk people over maliciously for no reason, and has done so, the being will be laid to waste.

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  66. SW neo nazi interviewJune 23, 2011 at 7:11 PM

    So why are you here?

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  67. 3:29

    I can my diarrhea and feed it to my dogs.

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  68. when neo-hitler has time it desires to attend a very ritsy, upscale, and extremely expensive theater showing, where seat go for a minimum of 30,000 a piece, and from the balcony spray the entire audience heavily using a highly pressurized tank of dogshit diarrhea.

    this sort of fuckin' up of the corporate elite makes neo-hitler very happy indeed.

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  69. Yes, Haven, those questions have to do with real empathy. That is my opinion.

    BPs are not known to have a real sense of empathy, as far as I understand.

    They have what looks like empathy, but it's all self-directed and serves an internal need in the end that has nothing to do with anything or anyone that happens to be in front of them.

    this sort of fuckin' up of the corporate elite makes neo-hitler very happy indeed

    Yeah and I'm sure that if you did that, the 'corporate elite' would run straight home and re-think their lives, find God, become altruistic and all in all become better people.

    If that is not your goal, and if you are doing it just for kicks, then your intent is nothing more than maliciousness.

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  71. RAPE THE BABY. SHOOT THE HOSTAGE. DEFILE ALL INNOCENCE.

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  72. @Medusa... I suspect you're at least partially correct, if not mostly. I've been doing a lot of research into the subject and I am certain we are empathically challenged in a way. I just don't really understand it completely I suppose. Having never been any way other than what I am, I guess I don't really know how my responses are, unusual, from how your standard NT would view them. It's, disconcerting.

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  73. 'BPs are not known to have a real sense of empathy, as far as I understand.

    They have what looks like empathy, but it's all self-directed and serves an internal need in the end that has nothing to do with anything or anyone that happens to be in front of them.'

    You are so wrong it is incredible. Just another comment that is so off the chart wrong that it barely warrants a helpful response.

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  74. "If that is not your goal, and if you are doing it just for kicks, then your intent is nothing more than maliciousness."

    how is it malicious? it causes no permanent damage but is great fun.

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  75. it is not like rape, or mugging or anything.

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  76. the point is people can call themselves ?pathic, or whatever they want, but as long as they dont maliciously harm anyone for absolutely no reason, who the fuck cares.

    the line between prank, and outright malicious can clearly be seen.

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  77. I wondered if sometimes the difference between a psychopath in Broadmoor and a psychopath on Wall Street was the luck of being born into a stable, rich family.

    A crude analogy, but one I believe is correct in many ways, because oppressors are often reluctant to oppress their own in order to maintain their privilege.

    After all, who appointed the High Priests of Sanity (TM) sane? Mental dis-order is a social construction, of course, and labels are social control to maintain order including class.

    Isolating pathologies for disciplinary power ensures they're only analysed at the individual level, according to syndrome-criteria, and at not the social level, which makes them easier to apply to who they, big business, and the government choose to eliminate or smear.

    The High Priests don't want to apply their disciplinary powers to white, middle-class, university-educated men because they want to maintain their own privilege as white, middle-class, university-educated men. High Priestesses who work to maintain their privilege benefit from it too.

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  78. notme... I'm not sure Medusa is entirely wrong. I know for a fact that I care about people, some people, some times, but it's tinted with a perspective of what I derive from the relationship. I don't care or feel anything for strangers, coworkers, or acquaintances. It's just the people that I'm hyper attached to that warrant an empathic response from me.

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  79. so it seems that what ur r saying is that 'paths do have empathy depending on the moment and circumstance?

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  80. HI Haven. I know for a fact that we are not all the same in every way.
    My empathy is, I'd say, malformed and erratic, but for some reason, I have a great deal, some would say excessive amount of empathy for strangers and people I'm not close to, often moreso than for people I'm 'supposed' to feel empathy for. In closer relationships, my absent empathy can be either inexplicable to me, (unconscious reason or just plain schizoid) or absent due to a fear of becoming closer or of opening myself up to healthier intimacy. I can be an angel or a bitch and am often called both things by the same person.

    But, I still disagree with her. I have schizoid/indifferent moments, entitled moments, and overly empathic moments, so her simplistic comment is just plain wrong in my eyes. But like I said, we aren't all the same, and she shouldn't be making generalisations in the first place.

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  81. so it seems that what ur r saying is that 'paths do have empathy depending on the moment and circumstance?

    the affirmative here seems to apply to notme who claims 'pathy.

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  82. it seems in general the common understanding of the term 'pathy by "society" at large, carries "malicious" connotations, but in actuality, all 'paths aren't malicious.

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  83. neo-hilter loves non-malicious paths, but keeps an eye on the malicious, weather 'paths or not, lest they need wasting.

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  84. 'the affirmative here seems to apply to notme who claims 'pathy.'

    er, no i don't.
    lol, i was recently called a sociopath and told I have no feelings though. :P

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  85. lol, i was recently called a sociopath and told I have no feelings though. :P

    people like this abound in all walks, obviously this doesn't make then malicious, even those with 0 empathy aren't made malicious by it.

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  86. neo-hitler targets mal?paths only.

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  87. *nods and waves to Patty*

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  89. i just finished a movie called "the adjustment bureau", so go write your OWN plan.

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  90. what does it mean to anyone here to "take care of someone's feelings?"

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  91. I read the entire book, and then felt good about not buying it. It is a useless piece of crap that simply follows Rob Hare's flawed assertion that sociopaths cause all problems in society, which is entirely unproven.

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