Monday, June 27, 2011

The pleasure of power

From Zhawq:
In your article The Art of Massage you posed the question:

"What pleasure does the seducer get then? Why go to all of the trouble? It's a good question without a good answer."

I think there is an understandable explanation to why psychopaths (and other manipulative people to some extent) tend to get pleasure from being active and the giver in a seduction event rather than being the receiver.

We like to give because of what we receive that way. This is true for all people - even Mother Theresa gained something from her martyrdom - but it is most of all true for psychopaths.

The neurotypical majority of people do tend find it slightly annoying, something to get over with so as to get to the pleasurable part. This is a common experience, and psychopaths can certainly feel just as bored with it as everybody else. Of course there're exceptions to this...

First of all, it isn't quite as unusual for neurotypical men to enjoy the giving role as it is for the women. There're also neurotypical people who simply enjoy the active giving role, it is part of their personality. The most common exception is when someone is in love with another and spontaneously like to cause that person pleasure.

It is very different for psychopaths. I find that psychopathic people's overall greater joy from being the active party, being the one who gives, has to do with the way we (psychopaths) experience the world.
One obvious reason is that we gain pleasure from being in control, and that to get in control you have to be the active part at least in the beginning.

But there's more to it than that...

The neurotypical majority of people always have a clear inner sense of what they feel, at any time and about anything, though very often not why. But they seem to have a two-part, or a 'split up' radar which monitors both their own feelings and the feelings of others. Their empathy may be what keeps them focusing on both others and themselves, but it may also be what keeps them from focusing on a certain outcome.

A psychopath's attention is not split in two and our focus is mainly outward (unless we're in pain or otherwise in an unpleasant state). We are very extrovert people and extrovert people are more likely to enjoy the active role when interacting with others. We generally enjoy having the dominant role.

Psychopaths do also not get our attention bend inward via empathy triggered emotions from those we interact with, because we largely lack the ability to feel empathy. We don't have the neurotypical person's common range of emotions, and the ones we have are often not clearly defined. And because we don't have the 'mystical link' (empathy) with other people and their feelings that neurotypicals have, we are pretty much left to gain an understanding of others by observing their behavior.

Our emotions aren't the only central element in how we (psychopathic people) experience the world. On the other hand, our senses - what we see, what we understand cognitively and intellectually, and what we can do with what we see, experience, understand - is the great and main part of life for us.

Neuro-science have been making discoveries that support the above. One could hope that the so called growing understanding of the human mind will lead to a better understanding of people like our host, M.E., like myself, Zhawq, and like many of our readers. But sadly I don't think that's the way it's going.

Habitual thinking and adherence to outdated dogma is a strong incentive to keep things at their status quo, and for as long as even the leading researchers use the easy way out and blame psychopaths for all wrongdoings in the world like a broken record about 14.th century witch hunt, there'll be build new concentration camps and Dr. Mengele types will induce their 'gene therapy' and 'brain chip implants' in the name of the greater good.

150 comments:

  1. "'gene therapy' and 'brain chip implants' in the name of the greater good."

    You're being a little paranoid, dont you think?

    I consider myself a manipulative person, because of the obvious reasons, i dont "play" with people for too long (mostly), i just use them to get what i want and then leave.

    "We like to give because of what we receive that way." True for all people indeed

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  2. Alright this is a pathetic and obviously lazy attempt at a post. Even if you are on vacation why use Zhawq? He blabbers on enough as is.

    So instead I give you this http://beta.news.yahoo.com/court-calif-cant-ban-violent-video-game-sales-143011848.html

    The first generations that have had electronic interactive media for the majority of their lives has grown up( but still live in their parents basement). Now to me when I see violence depicted in the media or real life I see it as justified. I even tend to blame the victim. "She shouldn't have opened her mouth" "He should have just given the guy what he wanted" "That's what they get for fucking around behind his back" "They started it" etc.

    There is a general numbness to violence. I'm not convinced it is a recent development, either. I think humans are tuned to violence. It is a natural state for mankind.

    The thing that is different about me when I use violence is that it is just a means to an end. One tool among many. So I can bring it out just as quickly as I can put it away. Without any emotions lingering afterwards.

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  3. Humans are tuned to whatever environment surrounds them.

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  4. "Brotherly love is love among equals; motherly love is love for the helpless...In contrast to both types of love is erotic love; it is the craving for complete fusion, for union with one other person. It is by its very nature exclusive and not universal; it is also perhaps the most deceptive form of love there is."

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  5. Reading your entry, Zhawq, made me think of that old cliche - the more you give the more you get.

    To my mind most men and women will give a potential *lover* enough to induce them to love them – their early desire is to be loved by another, not to love another. It made, and arguably makes, evolving from the primordial swamp easier.

    Some see their affectionate behaviour, their wish to please, as love and some see it as (non-toxic) seduction. Whichever it is it works...

    I also believe that women are biologically conditioned to love the helpless, and culturally conditioned to love their lover, as opposed to be loved by their lover – long-suffering wives of unfaithful husbands are becoming martyred heroines in our salacious times. Stand by your man, and the world will reward you, ladies! Oh dear.

    In the West with later first births, and secluded nuclear nests, many women transfer their love of the helpless *and* their lover abundantly onto one man. Of course, when the real heir apparent of the woman's love of the helpless arrives, the man feels usurped.

    Ultimately the role of seducer and the seducee is fluid and most people will play either, or both, at different times depending on where we're at in our lives.

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  6. love is for faggots i just like to fuck an run

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  7. ...................../´¯/)
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    ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
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    ............\..............(
    ..............\.............\...

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  8. Kesu:

    It does concern me that violent entertainment, including news and current affairs, desensitises people to other people's suffering – but it's the world we live in, so it's the parent's job to monitor what their children consume, no one should ever rely on big business or the state to (want to) do that.

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  9. The point of my post wasn't whether it is the parents duty or the states to censor what children see. It is the role and the way I see violence. Who cares if some 8 year plays a video game?

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  10. Well why didn't you say so in more than one line?

    Carry on...

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  11. Way too long, kinda like my dick.

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  12. Artist: Pearl Jam
    Composer: Pearl Jam
    Lyrics:

    What used to be a house of cards
    Has turned into a reservoir
    Saved the tears that were waterfalling
    Let’s go swim tonight, darling

    & Once outside the undertow
    Just you & me & nothing more
    If not for love I would be drowning
    I’ve seen it work both ways, but I am up

    Riding high amongst the waves
    I can feel like I
    Have a soul that has been saved
    I can feel like I
    Put away my early grave

    Gotta say it now
    Better loud
    Than too late

    Remember back the early days
    When you were young & thus amazed
    Suddenly the channel changed
    The first time you saw blood

    Cut to later, now you’re strong
    You’ve bled yourself, the wounds are gone
    It’s rare then where is nothing wrong
    Survived & you’re amongst the fittest
    Love ain’t love until you give it up

    Riding high amongst the waves
    I can feel like I
    Have a soul that has been saved
    I can see the light
    Coming through the clouds in rays

    I gotta say it now
    Better loud
    than too late

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  13. Well, I admit that the idea of a crusade against sociopaths has a certain shock value, as well as a vague feeling of realism; there is virtually no chance that it will actually come to pass.

    Sociopaths are not like the LGBT community, most of us prefer to stay in the shadows. Coming out as a sociopath in a world without prejudice may seem interesting, but it also forces many of us to face certain limitation that I doubt many of us would want.

    I'm not saying that prejudice against sociopaths is entirely justified, but it does vilify the stereotype enough that the vast majority of the population will never even consider the possibility that one of us might actually be a socio/psychopath. We're seen as the murderers of stories and Hollywood movies, not the people you see walking along the streets.

    So, before you hope that we may be understood, first ensure that we cannot be labeled. That's one of the typical steps in society's march to seeing a mental condition as acceptable. Once labeled, formerly hidden antisocial individuals will be faced with the prospect of having their mask torn away.

    If I may quote Rorschach from Watchmen: "My face! Give me back my face!"

    In the process of being understood, we would be unveiled, labeled, and judged by the ridiculous stereotypes that formerly allowed us to hide so easily.

    Personally, I don't care if society understands antisocials, I'm fine as long as I do. It hardly matters either way in the grand scheme of things, and putting too much effort into antisocial equality would detract from my own vastly unrealistic goals.

    I suppose what I want to get accross is: be careful how you go about getting us equality, and don't expect the antisocial community to praise you for your efforts, but don't let that stop you from doing what you want.
    -Potens

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  14. @Potents

    r u stupid?, you will not be controlled unless you commit a crime.

    neo-hitler doesn't care if you want to do like dahmer, but do it, and you will be wasted, like the rest.

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  15. In the pursuit of understanding, society will attempt to find as many examples as possible in order to gain a complete picture (granted, the complete picture is rarely gotten, and always distorted in its presentation).

    My comment was based on the treatment of aspies, who are now able to be diagnosed at an extremely young age, which would be too young for an antisocial to build an effective mask against the methods of observation likely to emerge if a similar method of detection were developed and applied.

    Additionally, you seem to somehow have drawn a parallel between me and Jeffrey Dahmer from what I said. While I think it's a clear insult applied by hands still too covered in baby fat to be effective, it does serve to illustrate my point about the perception of sociopaths.

    As for your name, unless you're going for some sort of extreme right-wing support, I doubt many people will support what would be perceived as a second genocide, no matter how righteous it is in your eyes. The parallel to be drawn between your name and your cause is no stretch to the imagination, and will rob you of the vast majority of supporters.

    In addition to that, you seem to take arrest or "control" as a given once a crime is committed, while there are many ways that one could, with a little thought, escape incarceration.

    -Potens

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  16. trust zhawq to write something so fucking long about nothing.

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  17. @Potents

    "it does serve to illustrate my point about the perception of sociopaths."

    first off, that is no "perfect" sociopath, there are only degrees of these characteristics.

    this can also change, since as self-awareness grows, the condition can be to an extent "grown" out of, therefore it is a "transient" condition.

    not something like:

    "i'm gay, and here to stay"

    or

    "i am an 11x convicted felon"

    or

    "i am drug resistant schizophrenic"

    sociopaths who "haven't done anything" are not targeted.

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  18. First off, I said perception, not perfection. I was talking about how the public views sociopaths.

    Additionally, if ASPD could be "grown" out of, so could schizophrenia, or being gay. ASPD is actually considered to be virtually untreatable. Self awareness has nothing to do with empathy. Several studies dealing with ASPD have noted basic fuctionaal differences between sociopaths and neurotypicals, such as lower frontal cortex activity.

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    Replies
    1. So why isn't the inability to fully process emotions treated the same way as an inability to fully process language. Why haven't doctors, psychologists, teachers, etc. tried to figure out a way to teach the processing of emotions through other channels in the brain with sociopaths? They do this with other types of developmental "disorders" - with other people who are not "neurotypical".

      Delete
    2. Also, having too much empathy would seem to be a processing problem, too. I really don't enjoy feeling wiped out after I've been to a movie and have lived every emotion along with the main character ... not just temporarily during the individual scenes but really internalized it all ... what a pain.

      Delete
  19. "Several studies dealing with ASPD have noted basic fuctionaal differences between sociopaths and neurotypicals, such as lower frontal cortex activity."

    empathy is a "pleasurable" trait, but not necessary.

    some, not all 'pathy is based on brain structure malformation, but the majority of "self-perceived" 'paths don't have this malformation, and therefore in these cases, 'pathy is more "tansient".

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  20. also, empathy doesnt mean anything more than being able to "see" how another feels.

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  21. Malformation? Hardly the term I'd use to describe it. As a matter of fact, I find that the difference a superior alteration, vastly preferable to the typical activity.

    As for the absolutely unprovable claim that the majority of self-diagnosed sociopaths are different from the antisocials in these studies, I hardly think that I need to point out the gaping flaws in that line of reasoning. Apparently, according to that argument, antisocials are only actually empathy-deficient if diagnosed.

    So the diagnosis makes the disease, hmm? Amusing, but little else.

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  22. "empathy is a "pleasurable" trait, but not necessary."

    Anon you continue to show yourself to be an idiot. Empathy ,while it can be pleasurable I'm sure, is not linked to pleasure. Empathy can be painful. Just matters what the empathy is focused on at that time. Empathy can not be taught. How would you teach me to care about what others feel?

    One thing I have always noticed is that classical condition(Reward/punishment) don't work on me. I'll take the rewards but punishment just makes me mad and I'm too stubborn to change once I've decided on something.

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    Replies
    1. You shouldn't be punished at all if you have a processing problem. That would be unjust and it should make you mad. There has to be a way to teach people to process emotions. It's a processing problem not a character issue.

      Delete
    2. The character issue would be a symptom not the cause ... this seems basic to me. Isn't anyone in the scientific community working on this?

      Delete
  23. "In conclusion, the hypofunction in the DLPFC, brain stem, cerebellum,
    and ACC and the lower pain-rating and empathy-related scores in
    ALEX are related to cognitive impairments, particularly executive
    and regulatory aspects, of emotional processing and support the
    importance of self-awareness in empathy."

    http://home.uchicago.edu/decety/publications/Moriguchi_CC07.pdf

    the above are real and physical traits, many 'paths are "wannabees", without the physiology.

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  24. "How would you teach me to care about what others feel?"

    so what you are saying here is that you know how they feel, which is empathy, and you have empathy, but even though you know how they feel(empathy), you just don't care.

    this is different then not having empathy, this is ignoring empathy.

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  25. "this is different then not having empathy, this is ignoring empathy."

    No. It isn't. Something I've been trying to get across to idiots like you. The ability to manipulate is based off the ability to read someone.
    The ability to read someone is empathy but it is only 50% of empathy.
    The other part of empathy that is required to make it empathy is an emotional response. I intellectual understand what another person feels or thinks. There is no emotional response that it invokes in me though whether they are feeling pleasure or pain.

    So if you are crying and hurt I know that you are hurt. It doesn't stop me from poking you with a stick.

    You want an example of how empathy can be split? Lets take aspies. We've gone over this before but for your sake we will restate it because you are obviously slow. Aspies have compassion but they have a hard time knowing what others are thinking and/or feeling. The exact opposite of a sociopath.

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  26. Also I read your article and you have a gross misunderstanding of what it was about. Have you taken psych classes? I have. It was my major in college along with sociology.

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  27. "We've gone over this before but for your sake we will restate it because you are obviously slow."

    statements you have made on this forum indicate you have "emotion", it doesn't take more than a retard to be "able" to attribute such "emotion" to others, ie. when you get "poked", you know others have the same emotion.

    so unless you have absolutely no emotion at all the above holds true.

    my professional opinion, is that you are an idiot, a faggot, who wants to be a 'path, and you try to by "ignoring" your emotion when you want to.

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  28. also, it is probable that aspies "attribute" their "emotion" of compassion onto others "blindly".

    whereas 'paths have "emotion" attribute that "emotion" to others, but ignore it.

    the only one reason they ignore it is because they think that others have "no significance".

    which is a fault in consciousness.

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  29. Here let me pull from your own article.

    The construct of empathy refers to the ability to identify(I have) with
    and vicariously share the feelings and thoughts of others(I don't have)...there are several essential
    aspects of empathy: 1) an affective response to another person,
    which often, but not always, entails sharing that person’s
    emotional state(i lack this) (affective component); 2) a cognitive capacity
    to take the perspective of the other person(I have this.) (cognitive component);
    and 3) some regulatory mechanisms that keep track of
    the origins of self and other feelings(I have too much of this probably.) (Decety and Jackson 2004).

    You are an idiot. Even when you read something you gain no comprehension of it. God what must it feel like to be so simple and slow witted? That is a tragedy I will never have to know. I gain understanding of something when I read it.

    I do have emotion. It is just highly limited. It comes and goes in a flash.

    Why should I care about your suffering? Your suffering is in no way my suffering. So why should I care? Just because I've gone through something like that doesn't mean I have to have sympathy for you. I lived through it. If you are strong you will too. If you aren't you will die from it and there is one less weakling. Either way I don't care.

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  30. Alexithymia means the soul, as the seat of emotion, feeling, and thought or literally "without words for emotions" In reference to this discussion its used to describe a state of "deficiency" in understanding, processing, or describing emotions.

    Alex seems to be congruent with restricted creativity. constricted imaginal processes, such as the scarcity of fantasies.

    Not a good arsenal of brain activity for a seducer or a seducee or a poet. Fantasy is essential.

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  31. ok, so now it is completely apparent you are retarded. that's fine.

    "Why should I care about your suffering? Your suffering is in no way my suffering. So why should I care? Just because I've gone through something like that doesn't mean I have to have sympathy for you."

    1. you fail to see the difference between sympathy, which you are referring to here and empathy.

    2. you have empathy, but it fails to translate into a more heightened empathy, or sympathy, because of the logic you just stated.

    3. again, you have a faulty consciousness, because without more of an empathetic response, people will never "trust" you.

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  32. From today's post"

    "One obvious reason is that we gain pleasure from being in control, and that to get in control you have to be the active part at least in the beginning."

    True, and all the control freaks and instigators here would agree . . . . You know who you are. ;-)

    Influence . . . Isn't that a major trait, the enjoyment in affecting people. Whether its changing the course of history, ego aside or internal knowledge gained through self-manipulations. Or perhaps having someone fall in love with you, or even more dangerous, having your own heart strings pulled by love's unpredictable nature.

    There will always be witch hunts over things people do not understand . . . ignorance and dogma is programmed into our intolerance.

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  33. not soulful, above comment was @kesu

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  34. You must have some kind of fucking mental instability. Do you have a learning disorder? You must have one. You lack some type of cognitive ability. There is something that is disconnecting in your brain that doesn't allow you to understand. Amazingly enough I lack a way to dumb this down low enough for you to even jump at in hopes of grasping.

    "1. you fail to see the difference between sympathy, which you are referring to here and empathy."

    Sympathy is a function of empathy. You idiot. You give sympathy when you place your self in their shoes. Then you feel bad for them or understand them. Thus you give them sympathy. Idiot.

    2."you have empathy, but it fails to translate into a more(Your English is horrible. Heightened doesn't need more because it means to increase.)heightened empathy, or sympathy, because of the logic you just stated."

    I have a piece of empathy you moron. How many times must I repeat that? Jesus Christ why you weren't abandoned in a storm drain as a baby is beyond me. Lord knows had I been your father that is exactly where I would have placed you and I would consider it a service to humanity.

    3. I don't even know what you were trying to say here. Your logic is faulty. People trust me all the time because I can look like I have these things. That and I have natural attributes that make me desirable to be around. For instance I'm a problem solver. People really like that. Solve a few problems and they love you. Simple as that. Next I can verbalize things that most people have a hard time doing. Which means when they are trying to get a point across I can say it. It makes them feel like I understand them. Those are just some of the things that I can do that make people trust me.

    Now go jump in a flooded storm drain. It is where you belong.

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  35. "Sympathy is a function of empathy."

    loh, i forgot you can't read, lol, :)
    you are soooooooooooo fuckin blown, damn.

    for jesus fuckin christ sake, how many repeats does it take to break the iceberg helmet your head is encased in?

    fffuuuuuuuuuukkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!! i 'm dying here.

    oh, wait, you can see i'm dying, but, let me guess, why should you care?....and that is why you keep acting the complete retard?

    sympathy requires empathy, right dummy?

    ok, next point of logic.........hurry compute ..............................
    ok, the cursor in you brain just returned, 5 mins later, and i thought the entire neural network went completely down, see you surprise us!!!,
    are you happy, wait yes, you are....because you solved a problem.
    did you just feel an emotion you didnt want to ignore because it was one you enjoyed feeling?

    pussy, you just want to feel what you want, so anything empathetic in a painful way you shut it out.

    that is the definition of a faggot.
    which you have outstandingly proven that you are for the 999th time.

    next time you can celebrate and party like it 2099.

    dumb fuck

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  36. You said absolutely nothing. You call me a dumb fuck. Wow. You're a moron. Congrats on having said nothing. You have no points. You have no lines of thought. You are a simpleton. Now go away. No one wants to hear anything you have to say. They need to stop letting the bottom percentile of the population have welfare. They buy computers and try and talk to intelligent people.

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  37. I do not understand these wannabes so desperate to belong.
    Maybe this will help, you belong to this random planet we call Earth, on a random solar system, on a random galaxy, and maybe, just maybe on a fucking random universe, on which you exist, if you are as smart as you think you are, if are as capable as you think you are, go out show yourself, make history, make it all good, manipulate the shit out of entire planet so you can be compared to God! People will bound before you, their mirror, and say, im still not happy, there's still a lot to fret for...

    We are as insignificant as any other being. So put your pride for not feeling shit (which you do) up your ass, and call yourself "Faggot" 50 times.

    Seriously this will help, im a therapist.

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  38. "They buy computers and try and talk to intelligent people."

    i feel sorry for you, you try so hard, but clearly are still dumb.

    at one point you said you would walk right up to someone in broad daylight and waste them, if you were paid a million.

    in that case, you deserve to be stupid, we dont need intelligent criminals around.

    dummy

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  39. why do all empaths smoke and drink like nothing? is it their self esteem issues?

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  40. the sociopath i came into contact with was a real piece of work. the s used to severely beat and molest his younger brother, also would control everyone around him.

    he never got caught in the act, the guy was a magician, he could escape every situation, i was in awe at this reptilian like fucker. even his appearance would change, from different angles he looked like a new person.

    very strange.

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  41. "used to severely beat and molest his younger brother"

    those are the 'paths neo-hitler seeks to waste.

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  42. reptilian like fuckerJune 27, 2011 at 6:20 PM

    why thank you!

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  43. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  44. You are an idiot and a child. You also know nothing of what I do or do not do. Shut your crying ass up. Grew some fucking hair on your balls and man up you whiny little bitch. Stop wishing for magical entities to come and help you pathetic weak shit. You are as worthless as everyone around you says. You are garbage and you know it.

    Maybe if you weren't such a spineless fuck you could do something. You won't because you are a spineless fuck. I suggest you crawl back under you bed and play with your pretend friends. Hell maybe I'll even send you a nice shiny action figure in the mail. You dumb fuck.

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  45. "Stop wishing for magical entities to come and help you pathetic weak shit."

    who the fuk r u addressing?

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  46. It's funny, anon, kesu going-back-and-forth that kesu sounds like a completely retarded faggot, lol.

    What a stupid fucking queer!

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  47. Kesu is the only so called sociopath that actually argues with inferiors, actually, the rest don't even talk to TO others, they talk AT them.

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  48. My therapist made a comment this evening that a good part of empathy is learned. I do wonder how much of an impact being taught empathy would have had on some PD types.

    Clearly it isn't everything.

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  49. any idiot can do "empathy".

    it only means "seeing" how another feels.

    if one has even a speck of empathy they know how to "do it".

    'paths, have empathy but, they think "evil" is "cool" so they ignore their empathy, this is just another way of coping with the universe.

    the 'path, even though having empathy, rejects it because it doesn't compute against their top premise of consciousness which is:

    "i am superior to all".

    feeling empathy would bring them down to others level, which they can't stand, so, they neurotically eschew empathy they have, and claim they have none.

    this is analogous to the religious who neurotically eschew evolution.

    they deny it exists.

    the 'path will always be a 'path as ling as they equate feeling empathy with being "lowered" to the level of others.

    because of the above 'paths' consciousness is completely fucked up, and sooner or later they will join the rest of "the crew" up in the cell block in holy matrimony with the cock in their ass.

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  50. *sticks fingers in ears and hums*

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  51. Haven i think your therapist was refering to Moral Values, various cultures have some different ways of understanding whats right and whats wrong for example some tribes in Afrika have marriages between adults and 12 year olds, while in all 3rd world countries it is considered pedophilia, crying at funerals, honor, pride, i guess it is all open to interpretation, you can fake empathy but it doesnt mean you will feel anything.


    Im in need of some help, i dont want to get professional help, who better than psychos to help me out right?

    I think i have BPD, i havent felt anything other than slight sadness, contempt, and some moments of pure rage, i can tell what someone is feeling by reading their faces and body language i use that to manipulate them i can also tell when someone is lying, if they want something, what they are about to do, i mirror them, and use gestures sometimes combined with words, (put my hand in their shoulder while saying something that will make them feel good about themselves) to make them trust me, to make them feel what i want them to feel, to make them think what i want them to think, i've always been like this.
    Somedays i wake up fine, i can feel, i feel hapyness, joy, sadness love,(rarely), most days i feel nothing and if i push it its like i can feel anything i want to feel, i dont relate to other people i find the average person to be more stupid than my dead dog, i have a girlfriend that i've manipulated for more than a year, i became who she "wanted" me be and through time i've been shaping her the way i want her to be, i always cared about people... to some extent... but now i see her crying i know i could make it all better but i dont, it just pisses me off.

    I dont think im a psychopath, you cant become one over time, you are born with it, i wasnt always like this, i think...

    Whats wrong with me?

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  52. why is sociapaths always so suttle and newanced when they speaks

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  53. There's always the comment made on here about "socio wannabe's" because it's cool to be one. There has to be something wrong with anyone that wants to be one psychologically. To create for yourself a lack of any emotional resourse is insane not a sociopath.

    Because of the spectrum all socio's have certain traits and motavated by those traits, but are not cookis cutter perfect. Not the same.

    So to argue over whether they are or are not one, on a site that is their's is presumptious.

    There's alot to learn for many reasons. If your not one and your just looking for an argument go have it with someone in person that you can have the pleasure of seeing face to face and maybe deserves it.

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  54. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah BLAH BLAH. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah.

    -Potens

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  55. The funniest joke:

    Psychopaths won't be willing to go back once they're chipped and able to feel how horrible they were.

    The reverse also applies: empaths will feel disgusted at how mushy and fragile they were.

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  56. "the reason that women are not as dangerous is that they have become accustomed to wild emotions and they know when not to react"

    That's just a polite way of saying it.

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  57. AMoral, in fact the two are the same.

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  58. Jesus (interesting name), you are too much in your head, thinking you need to figure this out, yet thought is futile. You sound intelligent, intuitive and have the uncanny ability to shape yourself and others. You sound way too human for this blog. Remember socio traits are human traits gone wild or the reptilian take over of the neo-cortex. I don't smell the full reptile in you.

    You are a product of the times. There is this move to meaninglessness in our culture as much as we are starting to merge as a world culture. You seem to be knowledgeable of the diversities in the world. That is an asset. Your environment is shaping you, its just you are more reflective and have more fight in you.

    You are a brilliant man, and perhaps need a more challenging vocation and interests. You need a new challenge. I agree with tik and would suggest looking for mentors. Therapy is not the end all, yet great mentorship call shape a life. You have the elements for leadership. I would look for philosophical mentors and in the flesh. And in your case anything which ignites your heart/passion.

    Regarding your girlfriend, its probably neuro-chemical between the two of you and a mixture of your existential crisis. It's been a year and the challenge has been meant. Now you can take on the next step, which is bonding on a shared goal rather than to keep striving on being someone different than who you both are.

    Again the name (Jesus) is funny. Perhaps it represents you in some way. If you follow the story, he struggled too, balked at hypocrisy and look at the effect he had on people. ;-)

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  59. life is not the end all.

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  60. Anonymous mirrorJune 28, 2011 at 7:49 AM

    the end is not the all life.

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  61. What is all this about psychopaths being great leaders? That is bull. A great leader needs to be able to listen to others and take other views, which psychopaths are incapable of, as they think their word holds more value than anyone elses.

    There hasn't been one psychopathic leader that didn't leave his country in complete ruin.

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  62. "My therapist made a comment this evening that a good part of empathy is learned. I do wonder how much of an impact being taught empathy would have had on some PD types."

    When people don't get empathy, it's pretty clear.

    I'm very tuned in to other people's needs, but rarely do I expect someone else's empathy (or sympathy for that matter) in return. It's just something I've been conditioned to live without. I am always surprised that someone would give a fucking shit. Maybe that's why I appreciate "the kindness of strangers," and have selective, various, and erratic responses to those I know well and like.

    I think some downtrodden cultures have a general malaise and misanthropy about seemingly generous acts from others.

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  63. yeah i really left the jewish faith in complete ruin.

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  64. Even when I try to think about another persons situation I can't, it's as if my brain can't grasp it.

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  65. bascially, all 'paths are faggots, hi kesu!, that think "evil" is cool; everyone has empathy, 'paths just dont like it, dont want it, and empty themselves of it, who can't?

    'paths, just, instead of feeling empathetic, think: "good they got fucked up, awesome, that makes me happy."

    such is the 'path, who are mostly "failures".

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  66. True story Jesus, what makes psychopathic leaders worse is 90% of the time, it's their own people they brutalise.

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  67. Empathy is an equaliser and psychopaths can't live among equals.

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  68. Why must there be morons in the world? I have no problems with different opinions I just have a problem with people who chronically don't think. I had a teacher in high school who thought depression didn't exist. What a moron. You believe a recognized disorder that affects millions upon millions of people doesn't exist? Wow thanks for playing, but with that statement it's game over for you. Cause I don't believe stab wounds exist. Oops, guess we were both wrong.

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  69. moron high school teacherJune 28, 2011 at 8:53 AM

    Kesu, you do not exist.

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  70. depression doesn't exist, it's just weak artsy bitches who get it.

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  71. @kesu

    the only 'paths that are legit have a brain structure malformation.

    you dont have this.

    so stfu dummy.

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  72. Malformed and certified. Now everyone else leave.

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  73. I'm going for a brain scan. Who wants to come with me? Legit nutcases or GTFO.

    Kesu, depression doesn't exist. Pfft. You so silly. ;)

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  74. "Legit nutcases or GTFO."

    totally.

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  75. More money in my pocket! Time to open another clinic.

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  76. So getting trolled. Sign me up for that brain scan.

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  77. I need to figure this out, whatever is happening, i need to understand myself so i can understand others, if i can not understand myself i might lose my touch, i do not want that.

    Arent we all human after all? Everybody is different in some way.
    Environment shapes everyone care we like it or not.

    Maybe you are right, this might just be temporary, but if it is i would be dissapointed, i like it, i like waking up fully working in the morning everything seems to be in place, no feelings to cloud my judjement, it also has its down side, its like i cant make those simple conversations about the weather or whatever everything seems boring, i've been reading the blog from the first page trust me im not as humane has you think.

    A mentor, thats a great idea, i like philosophy, thinking to myself and losing arguments against myself, it will be hard to find one thou, specialy in my country.
    I have many hobbies but none that wont bore me after a while.
    Yes, maybe it is an existential crisis but i still need her, i have plans.

    Jesus was suicidal im not, i also think it is a funny name, just came to my mind.
    I might become a leader one day, maybe one like Pablo Escobar was.

    Thank you, i mean it.

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  78. @jesus

    you sound dissatisfied.

    maybe you need new goals.

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  79. Sociopaths are the most sane people on earth. Empaths are weirdos.

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  80. Sociopaths = dumb ass faggots

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  81. @jesus I'm in the same place as you more or less. Your reason is my reason for coming here at first. Then I just started to enjoy this place.

    Back on topic though. If you are like me having a "mentor" is impossible. I find flaws in everyone and everything. So people who intend to teach me I usually end up teaching. The fact that they aren't perfect and that I believe that I can easily surpass them makes it so I can have no mentors.

    Emotions don't get in the way of my decision making process either. I like it that. It allows me to be objective even in harrowing straights.

    I don't think there are any real answers at the end of it all. Well at least I haven't found any real ones. I am me. I shall always be me. No matter how I change or think I will be me. No matter what others think of me I will be me.

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  82. "The fact that they aren't perfect and that I believe that I can easily surpass them makes it so I can have no mentors."

    why are you poor then?

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  83. "@jesus I'm in the same place as you more or less. Your reason is my reason for coming here at first. Then I just started to enjoy this place."

    @kesu i mean queersu, why are you talking "empathetically" here?

    i though you claimed you didn't have empathy, oh, i forgot, you're just a faggot.

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  84. "you sound dissatisfied.

    maybe you need new goals."

    I have only one goal, to get throught the day, learning as much as i can to have a better understanding of things tomorrow.

    @Kesu
    Well... Different people know different things, you can teach others as well as learning from them, and a mentee who does not surpass his mentor, is in a fact a sucky mentee.

    You're probably right, we should just accept ourselves as who we are, but i dont want to, i want to improve.

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  85. "I have only one goal, to get throught the day, learning as much as i can to have a better understanding of things tomorrow."

    if you see yourself as undefined, as everything then just live, you will gravitate in the direction of "you".

    but when kesu does this, he always finds himself back in the alley behind a dumpster with a crack pipe in his mouth and a cock in his ass.

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  86. Jesus, I notice that you use yourself as the sole frame of reference. This is a telltale mark of an extreme introvert, an attention seeker, or one who lacks empathy.

    Reading your posts, I think I can safely discount the second option. Your goal has a nihilistinc ring to it, and reminds me very much of my own goal, which I fabricated to give myself the illusion of meaning. You want to talk philosophy? I think you'd make interesting conversation. I'm open to any points you'd like to put out here.

    I'm sure it would help aleviate the suffocating boredom that clouds both of our lives, at least for a moment.

    -Potens

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  87. want nihilism ok:

    "fuck life"

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  88. -_- Anon how simplistic is your mind?

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  89. how streatched out is your asshole?

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  90. @kesu

    *stretched

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  91. A man lies in his bed in a room with no door
    He waits hoping for a presence something anything to enter
    After spending half his life searching he still felt as blank
    As the ceiling at which he stared
    He is alive but feels absolutely nothing
    So is he?
    When he was six he believed that the moon overhead followed him
    By nine he had deciphered the illusion trading magic for fact
    No tradebacks...
    So this is what it's like to be an adult
    If he only knew now what he knew then...
    I'm open... (2x)
    Come on in... (4x)
    I'm open... (2x)
    Come on in... (4x)
    I'm open...
    Lying sideways atop crumpled sheets and no covers he decides to
    dream...
    Dream up a new self for himself...

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  92. i am not interested in "philosophy", i am interested in "fun", "philosophy" is worn-out, and explained already.

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  93. philosophy can never be worn out, anonymous, unlike a brain that's had too much "fun".

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  94. that's a pretty good post Zhawq. you write well. i thought i was reading M.E.'s post until the part where you referred to "our host".

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  95. pearl jam has the best music ever created.

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  96. Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments.

    Anon (who first mentioned malformed brains) is not entirely wrong.

    Psychopaths do have certain physical differences in our brains from neurotypicals. But differences are what they are.

    Calling differences for malformed implies malfunction, illness or handicap. Psychopaths are neither ill nor handicapped.

    We have a different emotional life from the majority of people, we represent a minority extreme at one end of a spectrum called being Human.

    .....

    To you who don't understand why wannabees want to be like psychopaths:

    That is because they have a condition called Antisocial Personality Disorder.

    It's a condition that has it's very good reasons, and it begins in early childhood.

    It's not as easy as to say these people are merely stupid. Emotions are a very strong phenomenon, they can overrule reasoning. These people may seem abusive, but they suffer too, like their victims (if we shall call it that). Pointing fingers at one and not the other will never lead to a solution.

    .....

    Kesu,

    it doesn't do you any good to be a good writer, if you don't know how to listen!

    You're making a fool of yourself, stop it before you ruin everything for yourself!

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  98. @potens 

    My comment was based on the treatment of aspies, who are now able to be diagnosed at an extremely young age, which would be too young for an antisocial to build an effective mask against the methods of observation likely to emerge if a similar method of detection were developed and applied.

    All children appear to a degree sociopathic until they begin wearing social masks.  In leading theories of development egocentrism predominates.  Further, Handmaiden's Tales caution geneticists regarding  sleeper traits whose expression might confer some advantage in changing cultural scenarios.

    When (if) 'society begins testing'  'Neurotypical' will be scaled in a series of categories.  Normal will appear as it always does, relative.  Those gifted in impression management will always wear labels of their own choosing.           

    Children's cognitive styles are already assessed, through expression, notably language and in much the same way much as you deconstructed Jesus.   There are outliers, who despite less conventional processes (unusual usages of logic and emotion) arrive at the correct answer and thus, pass. 

    Your Genetic profile has value to the population.  Think of the narrative Enders Game, with which,  you identify.  You did Imagine that you were screened, groomed and tracked to maximize your potential?  Offered some purpose?... Of course, In the current default, educators and systems barely recognize "Think, Different,"  let alone shape it with fluency.  

    Dystopias will have their advantages. 

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  99. "Psychopaths are neither ill nor handicapped."

    wrong, psychopaths have a faulty consciousness.

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  100. In brightest day, in blackest night,
    No evil shall escape my sight
    Let those who worship evil's might,
    Beware my power... neo-hitler's light!

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  101. Leni RiefenstahlJune 28, 2011 at 8:12 PM

    Could you try that in a haiku?

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  102. You who are wicked, evil and mean
    I'm the nastiest creep you've ever seen!
    Come one, come all, put up a fight
    I'll pound your butts with neo-hitler's light!

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  103. no-hitter you are putting up quite the effort. the poetry if fair. I recommend you keep your day job.

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  104. The Green LanternJune 29, 2011 at 6:04 AM

    I am already gainfully employed.

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  105. no- hitter wants to elevate the universe to what?

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  107. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  108. Zhawqu (which I assume is an odd phonetic spelling of 'Zach'),

    I suppose you're right, but I've been plagued by conspiracy theories by my roommate lately and when I saw the last portion of your post, I mentally linked it to some of the more ridiculous theories and I felt the need to respond. Looking back, it was somewhat hasty on my part to judge you so quickly using such a biased standard. I apologize for that (don't make me say 'I'm sorry', I don't want to lie).

    -------

    Anon 7:03(reguarding Ender's Game),

    If you look at the book, the ones who I would most identify with are Gaff and Peter, not Ender or the other members of his jeesh. Not the optimized, but the optimizers. if you allow others to shape what you see, it's no better than being blind.

    I'd much rather be free than be the best one in the cage. Typically, the most advantageous position in a Dystopian setting is at the top.

    -Potens

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  109. wow, thanks for the lecture zhawq. i'll go buy a fucking hybrid or some shit, you hippy faggot.

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  110. @Zhawq

    put it this way:

    if i were to put a million dollar price tag, to blow a babies head off, and asked 1000 people if they'll do it, 95% of the yes responders would be 'paths.

    'paths have a faulty consciousness.

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  111. @Zeric, I begin to understand why I have felt so motherly towards you. Let's swap out cliche for personal agency and assume that anyone lucky enough to call you partner would be well informed and not in mind or body, victim to cultural stereotype. While the soft sciences pastiche does serve a little something to everyone, we are all actually smarter than that.

    Why devalue the utility of coupling? The social and cultural net, pragmatism of consolidating breeding and financial resources and the concomitant fictions (a broadly relatable personal mythos) are each more than serviceable as rationale.

    @zhawq I strongly agree that Habitual thinking and adherence to outdated dogma is a strong incentive to keep things at their status quo. Freedom is generally a function of resources, both tangible and imaginative. Someone would have to be quite low functioning to question the utility of working within existing structures, or to destroy a still profitable structure. Exploiting and circumventing a shared reality facilitates achievement (Thank you Zhawq I always enjoy a thoughtfully articulated point of view.)

    Oh dear Zeric, always shorting the Labyrinth human heart, that is presumably the current with which you identify? Seduction is a dance of daggers and veils; A pass time. Do you serve everyone your head on a plate or was I just somehow lucky enough to order sweetbreads off the ordinary menu?

    Presumably you navigate paradox: I encourage your playtime and caution you against the devaluation of partners, they are a succinct expression of your commitments and a structure which manages your risk. Treat them accordingly.

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  112. anyone who talks in such a flowery manner has got to be a faggot.

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  113. "Habitual thinking and adherence to outdated dogma is a strong incentive to keep things at their status quo."

    classifying "habitual thinking" as "incentive" is faulty.

    fuckin retard.

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  114. "Neuro-science have been making discoveries that support the above. One could hope that the so called growing understanding of the human mind will lead to a better understanding of people like our host, M.E., like myself, Zhawq, and like many of our readers. But sadly I don't think that's the way it's going."

    Neuro-science is making continual strides in understanding the mechanisms of sociopathy. However, you desire to transform this understanding into a position of "pity" for the sociopath. The two do not equate. Scientists have made advances in understanding the structure and mechanisms of the Variola (smallpox) and HIV virus. This doesn't mean that we should have pity on the viruses.

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  115. 'paths have a defective consciousness.

    it causes them to be prone to being a detriment to groups, by harming people.

    in more historic times, in smaller groups, the 'paths were taken to wasteland and wasted like garbage. they are not a benefit to group survival.

    neo-hitler seeks to re-establish this process, but on a larger scale, so it meets the needs of today's larger societies.

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  116. of course there would be a "qualifying" period where the malicious behavior of the 'path would be documented to provide solid "backing", for the need to waste the 'path.

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  117. Conscious SociopathJune 29, 2011 at 2:14 PM

    Pity is a tool. I use it well.

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  118. 'in more historic times'

    lol, your dumb.

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  119. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  120. fuck you, faggot cunt. ^L^

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  121. "What moral or ideology system do you adhere to, Christianity?"

    0 - only my own morality that i decide to follow, no not christ whoes second coming was only for a few hours while kesu fingered his asshole.

    but, why do you think 'paths are worth anything, if their behavior is thus shown:

    consistent harm to others.

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  122. most likely jesus was a 'path.

    a suicidal 'path, that in his superficial charm, and cowardly death, created an insidious device, of lies, killings, and betrayals, another arm of pure evil, religion.

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  123. Yes Potens i am an introvert, but i dont seek attetion i try to drive it away from me unless it has some sort of benefit, i do not lack empathy i figured i can just regulate the intensety of my feelings, i do seek help and other points of view which is why i'm here

    "Human beings who do not want to belong to the mass need only to stop, and not be comfortable; follow their conscience, which cries out: "Be yourself! All you are now doing, thinking, desiring, is not you yourself."...your educators can be only your liberators..."

    I consider myself a nihilist, could you tell me more about your goal? That illusion of meaning of yours

    And do i seem egocentric?

    Jesus didnt create religion, it already existed, 30000 years before he was born, Horus resembles Christ in many ways.

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  124. Jesus, I think you've focused you worldview on what you understand, and that you understand yourself more than most other things. If that makes you egocentric, than I do view you as such. However, in that case, egocentrism is a reflection of your persuit of absolute understanding rather than pure whimsy.

    My goal?

    Well, I've detailed most of my views here: http://www.sociopathworld.com/2011/06/emotion-is-weakness.html

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  125. why is it that 'paths have emotion and try to run from it:

    "Live life with one principle, to regret nothing."

    obviously the writer has felt "regret" but doesn't want to, so therefore dismisses emotion as something that "obscures" truth.

    it is funny that 'paths do this, there would be no point in living without emotion, one would be a zombie, a robot.

    emotion is "the juice" of consciousness. it is what our consciousness makes our body feel.
    that is why it is so important not to have a faulty consciousness, by adding new and deleting faulty premises from our consciousness,
    we can "repair" consciousness so that it produces the right emotion in our body.

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  126. It's true that emotion is what makes life worth living, but that need for a reason is a weakness in and of itself. Being truely emotionless would remove all emotional weakness, but it would also take away all the positive aspects of having emotion. Striking the ideal balance between the two is useful to have a life with little vulnerability and lots of enjoyment.

    -Potens

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  127. but, why do you think 'paths are worth anything, if their behavior is thus shown:

    consistent harm to others.


    Yes, I think psychopaths and sociopaths are worth something, many things, they're worth a lot and of a lot of things (I basically think AsPD'ers are worth of something too, but that's another discussion). But the worth of the individual differs, and I'll grant you that those most of us know as 'psychopaths' are not worth a whole lot. But there're problems with the common understanding of what a psychopath is.

    I would like to answer this question in more detail and am going to publish an article based on the subject. It wouldn't fit into a comment board. You're welcome to visit my website (just click my name, Zhawq), it'll take you there.
    I do largely write article based on the questions I receive from people, but I also write more general articles on psychopathy and subjects related to this, and a few autobiographical texts also. Indeed, the questions I receive from you guys, and from my readers, are probably what inspires me the most to continue writing and continue to try and pave the way for some form of common ground where neuroptypical people can learn about people like myself, while I too can learn about the way you see me and hopefully eventually understand you better.

    You're welcome to stop by, and also to post questions for me there if you wish. That's is (also) the purpose of the website. - It's a public website and everybody else are welcome as well, of course.

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  129. "You don't do your viewpoint any service resorting to Kesu's foolishness, I must add. Leave it him and the other kids to attempt asserting themselves by such weak and childish measures."

    Excuse me? The fuck exactly you talking about Zhawq? I've never said anything like that idiot. Check up on yourself Zhawq your autism is poking out again.

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  130. Kesu,

    you do not listen!!

    "I've never said anything like that idiot."

    I'm not quoting you, I wrote this to someone else. You apparently haven't read the post I left for you!

    *sigh*

    I rest my case. Do as you like, I don't have time for this!...

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  131. "Kesu,

    it doesn't do you any good to be a good writer, if you don't know how to listen!

    You're making a fool of yourself, stop it before you ruin everything for yourself!"

    Yeah I think I read it. Yup. Read it. Your engaging in the same thing I did. Probably because you are bored too. I was bored so I fed the troll. If I wasn't bored I wouldn't have. Is that not obvious? Do you think I'm daft?

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  132. @zhawq

    what is the defining element of the 'path?

    that causing harm is satisfying to them, right?

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  133. Unconscious EmpathJuly 2, 2011 at 6:01 PM

    Pity?  That was the sound of my hypocrisy cracking. . Amusing beyond, where it took me next...

    (you are too damn funny)

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  134. Kesu,
    "Yeah I think I read it. Yup. Read it. Your engaging in the same thing I did. Probably because you are bored too. I was bored so I fed the troll. If I wasn't bored I wouldn't have. Is that not obvious? Do you think I'm daft?"

    If you think I took the time to write this for you because I was bored you haven't understood me, nor the message. You may want to rethink that position. If not, well it's your loss, pal. ;)


    Anon 10:31,

    "what is the defining element of the 'path?

    that causing harm is satisfying to them, right?"


    There're a list of defining elements in each type of what you call 'paths.

    You can find a description in it's shortest form here.


    Unconscious Empath,
    "Pity? That was the sound of my hypocrisy cracking. . Amusing beyond, where it took me next...

    (you are too damn funny)"


    For when you regain consciousness, xD... Pity? I'm not even sure this is for me. Did I write something about pity? I do from time to time, it's kind of an intellectual disposition when I do so. I 'try' to feel what I'm supposed to feel for those who are in a pitiful situation, but I've learned to actually recognize it cognitively. Surely that counts for something, no?

    Anyway, amusing you is better than not reaching you at all, eh? Haha.

    ReplyDelete

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