Saturday, January 28, 2012

Sociopaths = narcissistic, not narcissists

Question from reader "R" re sociopaths vs. narcissists (edited):
Dear Sociopath:

I hope you don't mind but if you have chance I have some questions for you. I've never knowingly dealt or spoken with a sociopath before (as far as I know) and this is my first time reaching out. I've become interested in sociopaths because I recently realized through a very melodramatic relationship that I was searching out a sociopath under the guise of trying to seek a highly romanticized romantic relationship. It turned out I think that all I got was narcissist... and after he fired me (he was my boss) I realized part of my bitter disappointment was that he was only a narcissist.

I don't think a narcissist is much like a sociopath... they just operate on a lower emotional level that rules them entirely where as it seems sociopaths function without the entanglements of the regular fears and ambitions that the rest of us have? What do you think?
my response:
I think that sociopaths and narcissists are very different, although they both demonstrate a certain amount of "narcissism," which is confusing terminology for some people. There is clinical "narcissism," the disorder, and narcissism in the traits of self love, overconfidence, delusions of grandeur, etc. "Narcissism" the disorder is just a term for a bundle of traits that happens to include narcissism the trait. Narcissism isn't necessarily the dominant trait of the narcissist, although it is certainly a prominent one. Sociopaths also frequently manifest the narcissistic trait, but the sociopath would believe he has more justification for his narcissism, and with good reason. The sociopath is exceptional -- his brain is hardwired differently to think rationally all the time, to exploit, to be a predator/scavenger. I don't think this is true of narcissists. I believe narcissism is deeply based in self-deception. as Fyodor Dostoevsky said in The Brothers Karamazov:

"A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself and for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love, and in him, he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest form of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying--to others and to yourself."

Empaths may think that all of this is a distinction without a difference because interactions with narcissists may seem very similar to interactions with sociopaths. Both may seem uncaring, but with the sociopath it is more because he is incapable of caring about you the same way you care about yourself, whereas with the narcissist it is more because he is too self-involved to notice you. But there is arguably more hope of a stable relationship with a sociopath because sociopaths are self-aware and manifest greater control over their behavior (i.e. ability to adapt to individual needs and preferences). That said, a relationship with a narcissist could be more stable because they are more constant (albeit constantly selfish) and have more genuine (albeit histrionic and self-involved) emotions. And narcissists too can change their behavior if they think that the change is more consistent with their deluded self-image of themselves -- a-friend-to-man, a superhero, a-good-guy, or whatever it is they are telling themselves that particular day. If you don't mind everything always being about him in a relationship, a narcissist should be fine. If you don't mind everything always being about you in a relationship, a sociopath should be fine. but I like your description, too -- that narcissists operate on a lower emotional level that rules them whereas sociopaths function without the entanglements of the regular fears and ambitions that empaths have. To the extent that means that sociopaths have much greater control over their behavior/destiny, I think that is true.

141 comments:

  1. The distinctions drawn between narcissists & sociopaths are interesting. A survivor of an abusive marriage, I used to believe my self-involved ex was the former... but now I believe he's a dyed-in-the-wool sociopath. Several months into our marriage, I knew he wasn't normal. His "all about me" perspective fooled me into believing that his narcissism was of the clinical variety. But the more I analyzed his other characteristics, the answer became obvious.

    His continual deceit covered topics such as a phony military background (he's a Navy SEAL imposter), his relationship status, finances, even things he didn't need to lie about whatsoever.. like his family history. He turned emotions on and off for the convenience of his listener... whether it was me or a counselor. No fear of consequences at all. What's more, I was able to see that his tactics were rationalized and CALCULATED- a key component of most sociopaths. Oh sure, my ex was self-involved, but not so much that I was out of his range of vision... I was there to be used or exploited. As you write, the sociopath simply justifies his narcissism. Many a time I heard, "I don't belong in this world." I agreed, but not for the same reason. :-P

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  2. omg??? please correct me if im wrong ok, but did the poster state that they where actually looking for a relationship with a sociopath??? And that disappointment was felt because all the person got was a narcissist??? I can't have read it correctly even though i re read it twice. If i have read it correctly than....HA HA HA HA HA HA. That has got to be "THE" dumbest thing i have EVER read in my life. WTF???? For those people who actually want to date a sociopath for the "fun of it" then you are nothing more than a willing lamb to the slaughter. And "when" not "if" the sociopath ruins your life than don't start bitching about the sociopath. (Its their nature to search and destroy) Its like going into a lions den and saying its lunch time but please don't eat me, because i have a piece of lettuce that is far more satisfying!! HA HA HA HA. I so hope to God i read the original post wrong.

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    1. You know it sister !

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    2. These people need to be put in a place alone, together. Not in society.

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  3. oh and by the way a sociopath can't help what they are. It is the way they are wired. They have no more ablilty to change their personality disorder than they would have to change their actual race!!! Its feakin biology!! Certain social situations just fuel a sociopaths behaviour. They will always have an advantage over someone who can feel empathy. They know that!! They aren't necessarily low in intelligence, they understand they aren't the same as other "feeling" people. The way a human feels love is how a sociopath feels the urge to ruin a person. A person who can feel empathy and all those other range's of human emotions can't just be trained to erase them entirely and never feel anything again. What sociopaths need is an open community of some sort where they can be regulated somehow so they are not pushed further underground. I have no idea how that could be achieved though, maybe it can't?

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  4. Personally, as someone who's primarily drawn to narcissists and attracts them as well, I believe a lot of them are empaths with a a very effective defense mechanism that's taken control after years of overuse.
    They seem to have once been "normal" as children (although a great deal of a child's resiliency to trauma is due to their healthy egocentricity), but something somewhere along the line of development becomes difficult to cope with and they seem to turn all their care and attention inward to avoid being hurt by others and the environment (which, to me, seems to explain the often present paradox of weak identity/self-esteem and simultaneous grandiosity). Perhaps they cannot find a source of unconditional love, and therefore create it for themselves?

    Another big difference I feel between sociopaths and narcissists is the "love" of self. Every narcissist I've known is so blindly in love with themselves they don't see their faults and are easily manipulated by flattery and the humoring of the vices they don't think they have. They also avoid any kind of distress, have a low tolerance for pain and generally fear punishment and consequences. Sociopaths' love deficiencies apply to themselves as well; we're aware of all our faults, and certainly are proud of our brilliant parasitism and Machiavellian ways, but that's about where we stop thinking we're the shit. We know we're not visually stunning, vastly talented, god-like beings. We're just clever, detached and observant. Also, a real easy giveaway you're dealing with a sociopath is an oddly indifferent response to physical injury and a tendency to seduce or seek love more than sex and attention (which a narcissist prefers instead).

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  5. Who is the true hunter of earth? some would reply human. I think the awnser is alittle more refined; I have searched for the female sociopath. There is just something about the top predator of this planet. Just something about a mind that will not/can not be broken by chaos. *sigh* what fun that will be.

    Even wolfs (from time to time) think of retirement, Its only logical to calculate farther and farther. Strengths give birth to strengths.

    -Daemon

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    1. I wonder how likely it is that this is the same Demon. If it is.... Lol.

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  6. Hello.

    My name is Tyler and I have come to the realization that I am a sociopath. But before I delve into what exactly makes me beleive I am a sociopath, instead let me tell you what possibly makes me beleive that I am not a sociopath.

    And that sentence alone is one of them. If I have come to the realization that I am a sociopath, wouldn't that contradict me being a sociopath in the first place? I thought about this for awhile and came to the conclusion that it was indeed possible to recognize yourself being a sociopath while being one all the while.

    At the same time, there are people in my life I care about. Atleast I think I care about. But I am also wondering if I have fooled myself into caring about them? It's a possibility, but at the same time I feel as if I have never hung around them with the intent of gaining something from them and I do sincerely enjoy their company. I've cried sincerely but at the same time I've felt both hollow doing it. Then again, I've felt true emotions. I think. But is it possible that I have never actually felt true emotions; and that I maybe only perceive them as "True" emotions?

    I know I'm babbling, but I'm sincerely asking you people here this question.

    Am I a sociopath? And if I am, is it extreme?

    Thank you.

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    1. come to the realization that I am a sociopath. But before I delve into what exactly makes me beleive I am a sociopath, instead let me tell you what possibly makes me beleive that I am not a sociopath.

      And that sentence alone is one of them. If I have come to the realization that I am a sociopath, wouldn't that contradict me being a sociopath in the first place? I thought about this for awhile and came to the conclusion that it was indeed possible to recognize yourself being a sociopath while being one all the while.


      Maybe more schizoid than sociopath? something to consider.

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    2. I don't believe so. Maybe a tad narcissistic though.

      Delete
  7. For those of us who've been involved with either narcissists or socipaths, or those of us who draw them, I think we need to remember the importance of striking a balance between giving them energy and figuring our own selves out.

    When we come across someone who behaves in such an openly self-centered or calculated manner, it makes sense we want to figure them out. I.e., why would someone do something like that? How could they use/treat me so badly? However, I think there's a subtle danger in spending too much energy on them that we don't figure out our own destructive patterns- including the ones that draw these folks into our lives. Giving them too much energy feeds their dysfunctional loop, focuses attention on them, and does precious little to enrich our own health. Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying it's bad to use appropriate labels, or explore the reasons for certain behaviors. I'm simply advocating a healthy balance between giving narcissists & sociopaths, and ourselves, proper attention. Balance is the key :-)

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  8. Here's my advice to all you little psychoanalyst's. Don't waste your time trying to figure out whats going on in a sociopaths head ok, because unless you suddenly wake up as one yourself you will never "get it" ha ha ha. You don't seem to even understand that the more you try to figure a sociopath out the more energy you give, then more the sociopath takes. The lower you get the easier it is for a sociopath. Its like taking candy from a baby. You give a sociopath an "excuse", the fave one being "a bad childhood" you just make it easier and easier for the sociopath to play on your emotions. Its a slow grind. And when the sociopath thinks you are no longer useful they begin to despise you and make no secret of it. The more you beg, cry, plead and squirm the more you feed a sociopath. You may think that twisted, but thats just the way a sociopath operates. Believe me they DON'T CARE!! Why is that so hard to accept. ha ha ha

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  9. oh and if any of you were wondering what why you attract the sociopath then here are a few hints.....
    a. You are easily flattered.
    b. you are easily decieved.
    c. you are obviously vulnerable.
    d. you are obviously needy.
    e. you easily forgive.
    f. you are extremely easy to read.
    g. you wonder sell your grandma to keep your sociopathic partner rather then lose her/him.

    There's a few more, but can i make that any clearer? ha ha. You are nothing special to them. And when they eventually move onto the next victim, its not because he/she was more attractive, its because the sociopath has more to "gain" or you just got a little to pathetic and uninteresting. But you still make excellent boredom breakers to pop in on from time to time and upset just for the "hell of it" (buts that only if you let it happen) So for all of you trying to fix your sociopathic partner, good luck because you are going to need it. ha ha ha

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  10. This thread explained to me EXACTLY, as I already understood it, the differences between Sociopaths and Narcissists.

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  11. I was diagnosed with ASPD (sociopathy) although I think it's more likely I have NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I've hurt a lot of people, but never intentionally (as with a plan), and always it's been due to feelings of powerlessness, fear or being taken advantage of. My emotional core is more comprised of feelings of inadequacy than of maliciousness. In fact, I care a lot about other people and do a lot of good things for my community. I also feel remorse and empathy. But at the same time I think in very selfish ways sometimes and have hurt a lot of people.

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  12. I think you meant "if you don't mind everything always *not* being about you in a relationship, a sociopath should be fine." Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

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  13. i LOVE this post cos from my experience it's spot on. tell me, what are the chances of being 'pursued' by a narcissist AND a sociopath at the same time? i was and it showed me their stark differences. i'm mild borderline personality and could never and i mean never, be with a narcissist. they are total 100% takers. the sociopath is my adolescent ideal of how 'love' should be. of course, in reality, things aren't so simple.
    interesting question, which personality type would knowingly get with a narcissist?
    would a sociopath?

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  14. i realise i sounded harsh on narcs. i should be more compassionate given they are clearly 'misunderstood victims.' hmm. i still wouldn't date one

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  15. First here who's not from 2009!!!!

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  16. Bloody ell this new format/layout sucks. What a pain in the arse. Talk about confusing things by trying to make it simpler.

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  18. This post is funnier with the knowledge that DSM-5 compacts sociopath, psychopath, and narcissist into ASPD sub-types.

    Is this saturday's post, or is it an accidental repost?

    @boxersinabunch I am not a fan of threaded replies either.

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  19. Lol! Did anyone read this?! This silly girl was dating a Shaman she was giving way too much credit to.


    The distinctions drawn between narcissists & sociopaths are interesting. A survivor of an abusive marriage, I used to believe my self-involved ex was the former... but now I believe he's a dyed-in-the-wool sociopath. Several months into our marriage, I knew he wasn't normal. His "all about me" perspective fooled me into believing that his narcissism was of the clinical variety. But the more I analyzed his other characteristics, the answer became obvious.

    His continual deceit covered topics such as a phony military background (he's a Navy SEAL imposter), his relationship status, finances, even things he didn't need to lie about whatsoever.. like his family history. He turned emotions on and off for the convenience of his listener... whether it was me or a counselor. No fear of consequences at all. What's more, I was able to see that his tactics were rationalized and CALCULATED- a key component of most sociopaths. Oh sure, my ex was self-involved, but not so much that I was out of his range of vision... I was there to be used or exploited. As you write, the sociopath simply justifies his narcissism. Many a time I heard, "I don't belong in this world." I agreed, but not for the same reason. :-P

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  20. Food for thought. Thanks M.E. :)

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  21. If I am correct, this perception states a sociopath is more controlled by fear, and a narssisit- apathy and fearlessness?

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  22. "The sociopath is exceptional -- his brain is hardwired differently to think rationally all the time, to exploit, to be a predator/scavenger. I don't think this is true of narcissists. I believe narcissism is deeply based in self-deception."

    I fully agree. As I stated before a narcissist lacks decent introspection.

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  23. Interesting new comments UI... you guys seeing this, too?Gonna change the dynamic around here a little, methinks. No more white background, which changes the whole tone.

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  24. It's like the whole thread has to be reread every time someone posts a direct reply to a comment, which may get annoying. I wonder if this is a global change in Blogger, or just an option that ME is trying out. Sure does take longer to post... it's like a three-step process now instead of one.

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    1. It's a global change to Blogger IF you choose the embedded comment option like I use on my blog. If you have the comment option that ME used before or the one that takes you to another page, then this threaded feed is not enabled.

      Frankly I don't think this option makes more sense if you're like me and try to reply personally to everyone that comments on your stuff. For a more forum like medium which this sort of is, there's going to be a lot of back and forth and confusion.

      Delete
  25. @Medusa
    I find it confusing, I had a better overview when the comments section opened in a different window.

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  26. It's a fucken joke

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  27. This new UI doesn't agree with my mobile browser. Takes forever to load and I can't post comments. Tch.

    Anyway: Raven:

    "Which reminds me: Wheatley, did you get diagnosed as bipolar? It seems odd if you did. The way you describes your moods shifting so quickly within a day's time."

    That's what I assumed too, but then I found stuff like this (it's from Wikipedia, but that's not the only source I found that said the same):

    "While adults with BPD often have distinct periods of depression and mania that last for weeks, months, or longer, youth with BPD (in this case; bipolar disorder, not borderline)frequently have depressive and manic symptoms that occur daily, sometimes even simultaneously. "

    Which describes pretty damn accurately what I've been going through for the, at least, past six months.

    I haven't gotten an official diagnosis yet, but I'm 80% sure I'm bipolar. I've started documenting significant mood changes though, and I'm going to look into my family history to find out if anyone else might've had it.

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    1. Well I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not going to try and diagnose you. What I know of Bipolar Disorder though, is you don't cycle through many different (extreme) moods within a day. Even in rapid cycling, it still takes weeks to a month before moving to the other pole.

      But in listening to Haven; she describes cycling very quickly like that, as one of the things that sets BPD apart from BD. I guess you're not considering whether or not you could be BPD?

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    2. One of the primary differences between Bipolar and BPD is the duration of cycle length. Bipolar cycles much slower. Mood swings in BPD last minutes to hours to days at most. It gets complicated when you're co-morbid diagnosed with other things though. I'm also Major Depressive Disorder so I am ALWAYS depressed (well not so much now b/c i'm medicated properly yay!) so that base mood never went away for me, but all other fluxuations were pretty quick.

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  28. Anon said: If I am correct, this perception states a sociopath is more controlled by fear, and a narssisit- apathy and fearlessness?

    No, that is not at all what it means, Erin. Read the following excerpt:

    Guest reader said: “I don't think a narcissist is much like a sociopath... they just operate on a lower emotional level that rules them entirely where as it seems sociopaths function without the entanglements of the regular fears and ambitions that the rest of us have? What do you think?”

    It means that a sociopath can adapt himself to any situation and not experience any social anxiety, or other garden-variety fears, whatsoever. I think ambition levels can vary from person to person. Nothing at all is mentioned concerning apathy. Your desire to snipe at individuals you dislike by projecting upon them traits *you* consider negative is warping your understanding of the text, Erin

    M.E said re: socipaths & narcissists: Both may seem uncaring, but with the sociopath it is more because he is incapable of caring about you the same way you care about yourself,

    My contention is thatnobody is able to care about anyone more than they care about themselves- without making a conscious and deliberate effort to do so... right? (Unless it is a mother with her children.The maternal instinct is very strong.) Do empathetic people *naturally* care about others more than themselves in most contexts?

    The narcissist it is more because he is too self-involved to notice you.

    Perhaps. I personally cycle between being wholeheartedly focused on others, or entirely on myself. I am truly an extremist in that way. Perhaps it is a form of hyper-compartmentalization.

    ME said: Sociopaths also frequently manifest the narcissistic trait, but the sociopath would believe he has more justification for his narcissism, and with good reason. The sociopath is exceptional -- his brain is hardwired differently to think rationally all the time, to exploit, to be a predator/scavenger. I don't think this is true of narcissists.

    I don’t know about this. One may discern the potential for exploitation everywhere without indulging in the practice in a way that blatantly disregards the needs and preferences of others. Perhaps I am being overly pragmatic, but is not exploitation an action which engages the will? (I think a *good* way to sublimate this tendency would be to establish contexts in which one might use one’s powers of persuasion or manipulation for the explicit benefit of others. This would provide an excellent means of self-actualization for the sociopath, imo.)

    I do concur that there is something different about the way in which the sociopathic brain is hard-wired. I am particularly curious about sensory processing issues and co-morbidity with other conditions (i.e: ADHD, under-stimulation of the amygdala, even sexual paraphilas.) I think they might offer us some clues into the physiological roots of sociopathic traits.

    All in all, an interesting post.

    On a side note, I will not be logging on for the next few days. Something important has come up. I may or may not be back.

    Any “Alteregos” posting in the next few days are fake, suckaz....! ;)

    Night sw :)

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    1. The exact same dude.

      I can't comment replies. I tried to ask alter if she is an introvert or an extrovert. And tried to tell medusa and eden how we did date the exact same guy. Like everything was an appropriate drama character... Like alter.

      Anyway.. I usually am a fan of change but I hate this new layout. Icant post comments on my tablet, and the scrolling issue mentioned is challenging at best.

      Delete
  29. While adults with BPD often have distinct periods of depression and mania that last for weeks, months, or longer

    Thus its original name - before it was politically incorrect - of Manic Depressive/Manic Depression :)

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  30. Re: I think a *good* way to sublimate this tendency would be to establish contexts in which one might use one’s powers of persuasion or manipulation for the explicit benefit of others. This would provide an excellent means of self-actualization for the sociopath, imo.

    ... Of which this blog may well be a good example. Cheers! ;)

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  31. Both may seem uncaring, but with the sociopath it is more because he is incapable of caring about you the same way you care about yourself,

    I just re-read and frankly I am not sure I interpreted it correctly. I wonder if you meant to imply: a sociopath cannot care for someone the way that person cares for himself...? But then, how can anyone care for someone else the way *that person* cares for themselves? I do not understand this; it just does not compute. I don't know if that's me, or M.E.?

    I always have to have an after-thought, LOL

    :)

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    1. Ha. I had a great Aunt who would comment to me and my sibling as a teenager "So..Have you met anyone you like more than yourself?" It was supposed to be a joke, I THINK lol. I have always wondered why this statement has stuck with me. My gut would be like all twisted for a second. Then I'd shrug it off. I think she was trying to tell me that was the most ridiculous thing a person could do, so don't ever do that.

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  32. By your own statement, I'm going to assume that the last two comments were fake.

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  33. @med Yeah doesn't quite fit.

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  34. Psychopathy is basically narcissistic personality disorder on pathological steroids, hence the term "Aggressive narcissism" Not only does the psychopath believe he is above others (similar to the npd) but he begins to act out and take advantage.

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  35. Yesterday, I did not make myself clear. The sociopath has a flexible self which has many,many advantages. However, there are concomitant disadvantages, as with any "out of balance" condition, as this is.

    The relationship between a sociopath and am empath can be very elucidating for both, as they are very different animals, in some ways.

    Greetings from Monica Moo normal size and da real deal

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    1. The relationship between a sociopath and am empath can be very elucidating for both, as they are very different animals, in some ways.

      You repeat this sentiment so often that it's clear you are continually trying to convince yourself.

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  36. The relationship between a sociopath and am empath can be very elucidating for both

    Fuck that. I wouldn't go near the bastards with a ten foot pole. Oh well each to their own.

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  37. Theme Songs for SW Regulars "Trip Down Memory Lane Series"January 28, 2012 at 4:46 AM

    Theme Song for David

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf71XpAot8I

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  38. Themes for SW RegularsJanuary 28, 2012 at 4:47 AM

    "Trip Down Memory Lane Series"


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf71XpAot8I

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  39. Theme Songs for SW RegularsJanuary 28, 2012 at 4:52 AM

    That last song was for David. By Jove, Themes has this damn thing down.

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  40. @ Medusa
    My quest to understand the self is my particular journey. The flexible self of the sociopath is at one end of the spectrum. The true zealot who would die for his beliefs is at the other end. Somewhere in the middle is I.
    I just don't know where, yet.

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  41. @haven do you want to join the geek orthodox center with me?

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  42. I just don't know where, yet.

    That's because you are thinking about it too much.

    Go out and do something, and then perhaps it'll become clear. Or maybe you'll find that you don't care so much, or that it doesn't really matter. Living life trumps thinking about how to live life, in terms of figuring out the shit in life.

    It's like someone who wants to be a writer spending his whole life thinking about the right way to write. But it doesn't matter fuck all if you don't ever actually write.

    But it's in one ear and out the other, eh?

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    1. This is interesting. We can reply to each post :D

      Delete
  43. My quest to understand the self is my particular journey.

    It can also be a narcissist's journey.

    Razor's edge.

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  44. Thanks Medusa You have some good points. I am doing them, simultaneously, now.

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  45. My career is taking off, Medusa, and I am so happy.

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  46. Part One: "And narcissists too can change their behavior if they think that the change is more consistent with their deluded self-image of themselves -- a-friend-to-man, a superhero, a-good-guy, or whatever it is they are telling themselves that particular day."

    I can agree with this statement, and the one about lying to themselves about who they are. I'll get to the ones I disagree with later on.

    I've only known one to perfectly fit the NPD profile, and I was astonished by his belief system. I met him online, while trying to form a network of people I could socialize with, in the city I was planning to move to.
    We communicated online for 3 months before I met him.

    The first thing I noticed that seemed odd, was his inability to just talk to me. You know, just message me like most people do, with questions or a run down of themselves etc. The way people communicate when trying to get to know each other. The only way he would communicate with me, was by commenting on blogs I posted, or status type updates. And he was really intense about it. His first message to me was to send me the quote I had up on my profile page, and tell me how impressed he was with me, for "knowing my shit". It was a quote taken from my favorite movie villain. I don't know what impressive knowledge quoting a movie line shows... um... none?

    But his further responses when I told him why I chose that particular quote, made it seem as though he already felt we shared some kind of cosmic connection, or were the same kind of alien. Something idealistic like that.

    He was like that with all the blogs I posted, or updates. Constantly, this intense reaction as though we had some magical understanding of one another. But it was his unbelievably inflated view of himself that made me want to investigate him further. It was hard for me to believe anyone could really believe they were a god, trapped in a man's body. I thought he was just fucking around.

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  47. Part Two: I never approached him in a way that would suggest I was trying to figure him out, though. I played along with his intensity, and matched it. Like always... I just started mirroring him so he would become drunk on his own reflection, and become therefor, addicted to me. I started testing him in subtle ways. Mainly just to see his response. Every day I'd throw several very dramatic updates out there, to see which ones he identified with. Sometimes they were quotes from English Literature... sometimes just an opinion of mine, blown out of proportion.

    He always responded to the ones that were somehow super-human, or non-human. Vampires, demigods, epic battles, and arch angels. He compared himself to these mythical creatures, and seemed very confident he walked among the gods, as one trapped in a mortal's world.

    He had a blog himself. It was all epic shit too. His epic sexual exploits, or his epic trips to other cities, and countries. He was only 26 at the time, and yet their was this monstrous arrogance to his blogs that would suggest he was the ultimate lover, and grand teacher of all things sexual. He was the expert of everything. Combat; (lol) he'd been lying to people for a few years already about being a Navy Seal. While it was true that he had tried out for the Seals... he couldn't cut the mustard. In fact... he a-walled, and had to serve some time. But he had his mother and some priest from back home, fabricate a story about him fleeing in fear, because he had been so naive as to what he was getting into, and his faith does not permit him to kill. I found that out from an ex of his.

    But when he told the stories of his Navy days... he made it seem like he had become an expert in killing and covert operations. Like some grand assassin.

    In less than a years time I saw him go from this dangerous, godlike killer... to being a self-proclaimed shamanic teacher. From epic sex parties, and after hour parties at his apartment... to this guide for the cosmos, a bunch of other delusional idiots cling to... because they actually believe he will cure them of their humanness. He takes them on these cosmic journeys while on shrooms... which is how he discovered that being a shamanic guide was his destiny, in the first place.

    Some of my other observations of him were his inability to be humorous, or to understand humor. Him fucking me as though he were performing on a stage. And the fact that in person, and without constant distractions, booze, drugs, and crowds... he was very very quiet and dull.

    Now then... after what I've just told you: is there any way to confuse this man as being a sociopath? Really?

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    1. Some of my other observations of him were his inability to be humorous, or to understand humor. Him fucking me as though he were performing on a stage.

      I know thee well, Shaman. The no-sense-of-humor thing was weird. As was the very seizure-like eyes rolling to the back of his head whilst getting off, which struck me as affect. It was like him trying sooo hard to have depth, or something.

      Delete
  48. Part 3: Now with women... as much as he acted like this epic lover with regards to his overall epicness; there seemed to be this unspoken hatred and frustration. Whenever he thought he found a woman who met his absurd standards, he would not only idealize her; he would also advertise her to all his other lovers, or past lovers.

    There was always this reference to being a "real woman", that all the others somehow fell short of. Only after they started to challenge his belief system, or neglect, did they begin to fall short. And no matter how epic he would claim the next one to be... how much the female him, she was; inevitably she would be kicked from the pedestal she was put upon like a goddess, and deemed to be a greedy, overly emotion, obsessed lunatic... who has become too high maintenance, and will be banished from his magnificent presence, until she can otherwise learn to be more harmonious with him.

    To him... only his mother was a real woman. It takes a real woman to give birth to such a godlike creature. And until he can find this goddess worthy of his loyalty and equality... he will be a run wild and free. His one mission with women: to show them to themselves by denying them their need to own him. Show them how unlike himself... they are full of greed, bound by fear, and unable to reach his level because they won't let go of their desire to control him. :)

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    1. Only after they started to challenge his belief system, or neglect, did they begin to fall short.

      I think I began to fall short when I refused to agree with his 9/11 and MSM conspiracy theories. And his paranoid delusions that the whole world was out to get him and use him and betray him and not understand what 'real' shamanism is.

      I said to him, "I don't agree the world is going any more downhill that it ever has. The world goes in cycles. People like you will be needed again once it all comes to pass." I was half bullshitting, half not.

      His response was complete silence, even though the conversation was going intensely before I commented. It seems I just neutralized (hence belittled) all the world-angst that had been his fuel for so many years. I don't think he liked the idea of not being persecuted. It's less romantic.

      Delete
  49. My career is taking off, Medusa, and I am so happy.

    Was that a pun? Since you are a 'flight attendant'?

    And if not, how exactly does a flight attendant career 'take off'? Seems like a pretty static career to me.

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  50. weird.. two narcs i've observed despised their mother and thought she was weak for smothering the narc, not loved the mother. your so called narc seems delusional, which isn't narcissistic. narcissists know they aren't godlike, they aren't stupid, but they do think they are entitled to more than what they deem as "average people"

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    1. You need to be educated, sir/madam, because you are so completely, utterly, incorrect.

      Delete
    2. I'd say you don't know jack shit about NPD then.

      ...and P.S. it was an act. He doesn't worship his mother. He hates all women equally.

      Delete
  51. Part 4: If you asked him questions about his childhood, or family background... and especially if you asked him questions about his father; he would tell you that talking about those kinds of things are of no importance to him, because they are insignificant compared to the moment he is in right now. Which is the only place he lives. In the moment where what's happening now, is far too exciting and grand... to give acknowledgement to simple human things.

    No, talking about his day unless full of magic, battles, unusual meeting of the minds, or outrageous lies about business opportunities like: Being invited to replace the lead singer of a popular band, approached by the city mayor to help with covert operations, or gearing up to do battle with the local cops in connection with some unsolved murders.

    Yet when we were alone,and he was sober, he was so quiet and almost meek. You had to steer the conversation or there would be nothing to talk about. He so dull I would find myself wanting to come out of my skin... and sometimes when nothing much was going on in his life... he seemed to indulge in some kind of dark self pity. Where living in a world that can never except and understand him... was beginning to erode his perfect spirit.

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    1. Yeah, we totally dated the same dude. Although yours sounds douchier than mine. Probably because he was 20 years younger, maybe.

      But he did have that same loud/quiet dichotomy. We'd be out and he'd be telling all these extremely epic stories with such intensity for hours, then we'd go to his house, have a joint, and he'd be stone cold silent. Weird bipolarity of arrogance and shyness.

      Delete
  52. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  53. Can I just say how much I hate this new format. I like it in theory, but in practice it sucks balls. I don't like having to reread the whole fucking thread to see replies. And the font is smaller. Reading shit on a black background may be 'sociopathic' and all, but annoying after a while. What I hate most is that I have to actually use the mouse to click the 'publish' button instead of just pressing Enter. And after you enter the comment you have to enter it again to do the captcha thing. And it processes slower. And reloading the page doesn't even really auto-scroll to the same place you were before. Commenting takes nine years now, in Internet ADD Time. Ugh. Whine whine.

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  54. Part 5: As for his blogs, I can only say that they were only well written when he would copy the style of a mutual friend of ours. She came from a background of money and prestige, and was very educated. He called her his archnemesis. Heh... he always has am archnemesis, and some new female bff, who he's only known for 6 months or so. I was one such "best friend" to him, till I betrayed him by telling him I no longer wanted to hang out with his groupie weirdos, and his nutty, pathologically lying gf, who was obsessed with becoming his "The One", and saw me as getting in the way of that somehow.

    He also did a lot of plagiarizing. I consistently saw him use my words in his blog posts, as if they were his own. Sometimes they were verbatim, something I had said to him in a conversation, or text, or even from my own blogs... but he wouldn't quote me, or say: "My friend said," He would outright post them as his own original thoughts, beliefs, jokes, or insight.

    When I would bring his attention to this, he would turn it around on me, and make it seem like as his friend, and someone with the same end goal in mind... it was very selfish of me to desire credit for words he would have probably said first and anyway; if only I hadn't beat him to the punch. And also: "Your greed is starting to show through."

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    1. I gotta say, that last bit reminds me of someone around here...

      Delete
  55. Im going to second Medusa's whining. I think the direct reply format works best for blogs with less comments. Having to go back and skim the entire thread for new replies sux ass.

    Wow Raven, your narc friend sounds textbook. Did he ever flip out when you challenged him?

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    1. With me... he never flipped out in the beginning. Lovingly corrected (!) you could say. I saw him flip out on others though. Especially women. They are far too inferior a species to be challenging his way of thinking. But once I went up against him as a friend turned foe... he wrote a excessively long blog attacking me, my "followers", and defending his perfect image.

      Delete
  56. Part 6: In closing; it was hard for me to imagine why someone would need to build such a false self image, and burn so many bridges to defend it. He was lovely to look at, was very intelligent, and could have done amazing things. But something he told me just once, on a very rare occasion... made me think he once saw his childhood self as weak.

    He told me that when he was young he wanted the average American dream. A descent job with a reasonable pay wage. A wife and 2.5 kids, living in a nice house. Most of all he believed love was supposed to be easy to obtain, keep, and always to be trusted.

    But something happened that challenged this once perfect, and easy life he wanted to live. Canaan (his alter ego) emerged from these lies he'd been telling himself. Canaan showed him the truth about the inferior humans who's lies he was swallowing, and how he could unleash his true power, leading him to his destiny as a god.

    He and Canaan battled each other for a very long time, because his former self, still desired to cling to this sad romantic notion of love and trust. But Canaan was just too strong, and began to liquify his former self, till there was nothing left but a marvelous machine that was virtually indestructible.

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    1. Fuck an A Seriously.

      Shaman was a regular corporate guy, owned some sweatshop-like factories that made jeans and shit, the family business. Got married, had a boy and a girl. Normal shit.

      His metamorphosis to Shaman was sudden and all-pervasive. He changed completely, seemingly overnight the way he tells it. He went to a sweat lodge one day and the rest is history. He grew his hair long and started wearing a bunch of jewelry, did a bunch of peyote and wandered around the mountains of Mexico. "I didn't choose it, it was a calling." The sudden change destroyed the marriage because his wife was all like, "WTF? Who the hell are you?" and it ended in some dramatics, which still goes on 11 years later as they fight about how to raise the kids.

      He said she was too conservative and was trying to raise them in a way that was not who they are. Apparently, "who they really are" are mirror images of himself. It was bizarre watching him remind his son to light some incense shit in certain rooms at certain times of day. He even had the kids baptized in some shaman teepee baptizing thing, and didn't seem to be bothered that his 16 year old son's sole ambition in life was to skateboard around town forever. I guess Shaman assumed his son was just "being himself and authentic" or some shit. He loved, loved, loved the word "authentic".

      Did I ever mention the time he got a corporate job at Doc Marten to start a jeans line, and when that never actually happened, he donned himself in full shaman regalia (you've seen the photos), showed up to work, went straight to his bosses' office, and did some epic brave shit, sticking it to 'the man'. "You lied to me! You have no honor!" getting all up in his bosses' face and shit like that. He thought it was such an epic move, and he seemed to think his boss was impressed.

      Delete
    2. Yeah. That story made me laugh!

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    3. "LOL He loved, loved, loved the word "authentic"."

      I know someone else around here who loves the shit out of that word. ;)

      Delete
  57. the biggest giveaway of a narc is their hypersensitivity to insult. they see attacks everywhere and they'll punish you if you don't recognize their superiority. if you praise someone in the presence of a narc, they take that as an attack. if you said something like "that guy is charismatic" then the narcissist will smear and dehumanize the person.

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  58. your buddy is delusional. narcissists ARE the monster. there's no good, or soft part of the narcissist, even deep down.

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    1. NPD is a disorder of a delusional self. They are even capable of serious depression when those delusions are not being happily reflected in the people around them. You don't know what you're talking about anon.

      Delete
  59. In fact I'd say NPD is a disorder for which there is no beginning self. So they fill that blank page up with a bunch of dramatic fictions, and start believing it as truth.

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    1. Its definitely about the self. The self that doesnt cut the mustard is sublimated and the projected self, the identity they think of as them, is protected at all costs. Where borderlines and socios tend more toward a flexible self (and mirroring), the narcissist has a rigid self and needs to be mirrored. And yes, the narcissists depression when they feel no one is giving them the attention/glory that they rightfully deserve can be deep and dark.

      Delete
  60. Is anyone else having a hard time following conversations and the flow of everything with the comments in this format? It's so fucking busy and cluttered and there are so many conversations going on I can't focus on anything. It all seems extremely daunting to weed through.

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    1. Yes Ma'am, I think I've ranted about it three times so far. And this is the fourth.

      Huh, I just noticed that the Preview and Publish buttons do exactly the same thing. Stupid.

      Delete
    2. Ugh. I hate change. I know that's a stupid beeper thing to say, but this shit stresses me out. Meh.

      Delete
    3. frankfurt feels afraid of change, too. that is why he seeks shit like he does.

      Delete
  61. It's not confusing to me. The blue line separates every individual conversation. If a reply to the particular conversation, it remains within those boarders. But I do think it's kind of busy... and hard to keep going back to so many different conversations, in order to keep up.

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  62. Is it just me, or does the page not ever actually stop loading for you guys?

    Waiting for gsi.gstatic.com....

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  63. i'm in agreement. The layout is fucking with my already fragile mind. I believe it's bringing on a bout of psychosis. Thanks ME. And I want the moon background back behind the text. ME did this on purpose, he/she is testing our commitment to the blog. I can't begin to make head nor tail of it. Toodle pip chaps.

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    1. Hahahah! This is my favorite comment from you, ever.

      Delete
  64. It's interesting that three people here dated such similiar people. The Shaman thing. The ex-military special forces. I've met these types several times as well. A few "Spiritual Leaders". They were basically glorified drug users. Mainly hallucigens. They thought that LSD or mushrooms brought them the meaning of life. In reality those types of hallucigens tap into knowledge you already have and if you don't have anything in your head, except a bunch of delusional thinking they will amplify that. Consequently when these narcissists took hallucigens it would amplify the delusion in their head that they were somehow perfect, spiritually enlightened, and above the rest to the point of being some kind of Guru.

    The ex-military ones were always a-walled. Every one of them. It's interesting that they always say some kind of special forces branch of the military. In fact that's a inside joke with Kanney and I. Her ex was supposed to be in the special forces, when in fact he was dishonorably discharged. We met others out in the club that would tell us these special forces stories and they would all tell us the same story ripped straight from Platoon. That they were sent in some god forsaken country and ordered to murder a family, but refused to and so they were dishonorably discharged. It's almost like they all read some book on how to be the romanticized hero, because the fact that all these people have the same lies is just uncanny.

    I think one of the main things about narcissists is their refusal to address their failures. They recreate their failures in their head to where they did not fail. In fact they succeeded in the most epic way. They watch some movies and attribute themselves the qualities of the character in it.

    They become the hero in the movie. The dangerous unshaven complicated character who struggles between morality and duty. The "I used to be a drug dealer" is a story I've heard many times. They go on about how they were moving shite all over the country. Kilos of it. How they had hit men after them. How they would be guarding trucks of heroin with an AK-47 while some suited bloke counted out millions in a suitcase. After this long story they ask for a discount.....What happend to the millions? This one bloke was selling me this story of riches and fame on how he was working on this huge blockbuster movie. He asked for my phone number. I obliged. He whipped out his phone and it was some old phone that was free back in 2004 with the screen cracked. I looked at his shoes: Generic. No watch. Goatee with unshaved sides. I thought this guy couldnt fool anyone. To my amazement I've seen him consistently pulling the wool over a lot of people's eyes. It's amazing the lies people swallow.

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  65. We want to be lied to. We want to feel affiliated with heroes. We want a romanticized life. Our holes are easily filled.

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  66. Ukan, i did too. The narc i know is currently heavily into meditation...It's beyond ridiculous that his relationships are all pretty much fucked up because of his own making and yet he doesn't see the irony when he retreats into this metaphysical place where somehow he can be redeemed, emotionally. I don't see the allure of a place like that anymore, maybe when i was a teen...

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  67. In a relationship with a sociopath it is not stable. It is chaotic. You really just have to get in the passenger seat and put your seat belt on. You have no idea where the car is going to go, but if you don't ride you will be left behind.

    You do have more of a chance of being autonomous with a narcissist because they will not focus on you. They will focus on them. A sociopath will see your weaknesses and start attacking you for them. You will either address them or have them twisting them into weapons to harm you.

    It's like on here. The sociopaths in here pick on almost everyone in here. Constantly. They find new angles and new weaknesses to use against you.

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  68. One time, he made me an impromptu dinner (basically penne pasta with olive oil on top) and I was all flattering him about it ("Amazing that you just whipped this up!") and in response he said, "Have you seen that movie Chocolat?" (Or maybe it was Water for Chocolate, whichever movie is about cooking and sex). "I'm like that."

    There was nothing remotely sexy happening during the cooking or the eating of dinner, yet he saw himself as an ubersensual sex god.

    Also, he had some artwork on his wall that weirded me out some. One was a naked black couple embracing, from like the 70s. Another one was an abstract piece of a black person and a white person embracing. That 'ideal love' thing, and 'everyone as one' and 'down with white people' or some shit. He is not black.

    That's when I knew he was merely attracted to the 'concept' of me, and that's all that he was capable of. I'm all exotic or some shit. The first question he asked on our first date was, "What is your heritage?" which I decided years ago was a deal-breaker when it's the first question someone asks me. I deal with a lot of people who are interested in me as a concept, and I hate the shit out of it (but kind of love it at the same time, but not with someone I'm dating). I gave him a pass because he was hot, but I knew deep down this was never going to go anywhere.

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  69. Also, his favorite movie ever is Holy Mountain. He relates so much to it, much more than any other movie. He says it describes his life.

    If you've ever seen it, it's basically a really really long 70s hippie art film with all sorts of esoteric ritual stuff going on that makes no sense. It's a mishmash of gnostic symbolism and rituals and rainbows and shit like that. Basically a visual interpretation of some 70s acid trip after reading some new age books and nothing more. The movie has no meaning; the director even said it doesn't really have any meaning. It's merely random imagery that only looks deep. Like an acid trip.

    So appropriate that the film that has the most meaning for him actually has no meaning at all. He doesn't know this though.

    "The Beatles member George Harrison was intended to play the main character but he withdrew when read in the script he had to wash his anus in front of the camera."

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    1. How do you guess how literally to take someone's favorite movie when you first meet them? Mine's was The Hunger, with Catherine DeNeuve, and he treated his bfs just like she did in the film. When I told him I didn't want to end up as just another zombie in his closet, he would just give me this blank, dead look, with no reaction whatsoever. He even uses her photo from the movie as his FB pic sometimes.

      Delete
  70. What is the difference between a consistently selfish person and a narcissist?

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  71. Obviously the rest of their traits.

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  72. frankfurt can't find the friggin comment. @haven, you can wear a geek orthodox robe or jeans.

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  73. Theme Songs for SW RegularsJanuary 28, 2012 at 5:39 PM

    frankfurts Theme Song no 4


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaSRhMB_qo

    ReplyDelete
  74. "Obviously the rest of thier traits"

    like what?

    a selfish person will behave like a narcissist so what is the distinguishable line?

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    1. Um... no they don't. Obviously your reading comprehension sucks. Anyone can be narcissistic... We're talking about a full blown PD.

      Delete
    2. please shut up. you like to hear the sound of your own key strokes. i meant what i said, i was talking about narcissist, not narcissistic traits. and yet you nor Ukan can answer the question. You can't comprehend my questions but you are ready to jump down my throat. smh.

      Delete
    3. Obviously I shouldn't have to specifically answer your question you idiot. There are full descriptions of the differences all over this thread and even in the blog post! I fully comprehend your question... I just don't don't think I should have to do your job for you. Read the fucking blog retard!

      Delete
    4. raven needs her medsJanuary 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM

      raven, go fly into a tree bark and die already. the purpose of a blog is also to facillitate discussion in the comment boards. funny thing about you is that you have cosigned other comments i have made on this blog in the past so spare me on the verbal "idiots" "retard" attack since your vocabulary is clearly limited. You lack the analytical skills to decipher that the intent of my original question was critical thinking based. What defines behavior, is it the label(selfisness, narcissism, sociopathy) or the act itself? Oh, and next time mind your business, i clearly did not specifically ask for your input since it seems to be giving you a high blood pressure.

      Delete
    5. Retard. Idiot.

      Fly into a tree bark, eh? lol nice... who needs the whole tree if just flying into the bark can do enough damage! Idiot. Retard. :D

      Delete
  75. they sound like typical artsy douches, not narcissists. narcissists are similar to sociopaths, as they use others as objects. narcissists are vicious ruthless people.

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    1. Where do you regular ignorant types come from? Or is this just the same stupid person over and over.

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    2. I think its the latter.

      Delete
  76. I detest the new comment layout. In theory it could be great, but I can't type things on my tablet. It won't take any of my comments. I tried to write three today, each in different ways to no avail. So I missed the rest of what's going on. Anything interesting?

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  77. But I digress.
    The distinguishable differences between narcissists and sociopaths, or just regular selfish assholes, have been perfectly described several times by UKan, Medusa, myself, Zoe, and M.E.... yet you retards just never seem to process it. I leave my information for those who have the mind to properly understand what is written in its context. For the rest of you... you're wasting your time trying to analyze shit you're incapable of understanding. Ever.

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  78. Ok, anon, here's a remedial run down. I will try to use small words.

    Narcissist - Thinks he is "normal" like everyone else, but better. Likes to project the alpha male self. He sees himself as some shining example of what everyone else should be. Whatever his weaknesses are, he refuses to see and instead projects them onto those around him and demonizes them. His standards for others are unreasonably high, which is good for him, because he can then look down on others for not meeting them. Wives are for projecting that perfect exterior. Random ass on the side is for stroking his ego.

    Socio - he knows who he is, doesnt need anyone to reflect that. His self isnt a projection like the narc. His self is there, he just purposely plays the part of whatever he needs to to get what he wants. When in Rome. Where a narcissist would go to an Arab nation and make a big deal about how superior the US is and refuse to dress like a local, a socio would fit in purposefully while they go about their "business".

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  79. i agree sarah, but these claim a narcissist is out of touch with reality in a delusional sense, which isn't true. narcissists overestimate their self worth, but i wouldn't say they are delusional in the classic sense. a narcissist realizes that a speeding bus is going to splatter them if they decide to jump under the wheels, but a completely delusional person might believe he is immune to those sorts of events.

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    1. Dude you are confusing delusional periods and issues of self projection with full on psychosis. I have bpd and have delusions. It doesnt mean I will stand in front of a bus! What you are talking about is more akin to schizotypal pd or full on schizophrenia.

      The narcissist deludes themself, most of all. We're talking lies about the self. Lies to himself. Thats the crux. The socio deludes everyone else lol.

      They get upset when people question their delusion. Their concept that they are something special. And whatever lies theyve told themself (which of course, they believe more wholeheartedly with each telling).

      Delete
    2. Anon you're also confusing the inflated stories a narcissist will tell others to blow up their image, for full blown psychosis. This guy I fucked around with didn't actually believe he was invited to be the lead singer of a popular band... but he probably believed he would eventually. He didn't really think he had gone up against the cops, or had the mayor ask him to become apart of a special team. But he does believe he is very special. On a level no human is capable of.

      What the fuck is wrong with you stupid fucks. It's just never sinks in, does it? No matter how it's broken down to you.

      Delete
  80. Yawn I am going to watch PBS

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  81. Cheers for the personal stories on narcissists.

    I went out with a bird showing the exact same traits as those that have been described so far from Rav and Med.

    We met at a small gathering of about 12 people, seated around a table at a bbq. She was sitting across from me and a few people down. I didn't know who she was at that stage but over time from the comments each of us were making we would just look at each other and start laughing about the bullshit that was going on around us.

    After taking a leak one time I came back and found her in my spot. Told her to fuck off, she said she would give up the spot only if she could sit on my lap. I just laughed and went to where I was sitting and she moved. As soon as Melissa left to do whatever the fuck she did, rach took mels seat and had no intention of leaving. I thought "fair enough, it's always a risk when ya get up someone else will come along"...

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  82. Bloody wireless broadband keeps cutting out on me, anyway:

    ... I started speaking with rach and we hit it off. She seemed to be similar and in the same frame of mind as me... but it was equal and opposite - although I didn't know it at the time - just like two cars traveling on the same road but in different directions.

    Her sense of humour (yeah she did have one) was based apon having a laugh at the way others act but only to boost herself. My sense of humour was based apon just not giving a fuck.

    The whole thing became evident initially when we would go out and then the next morning she would ponse herself up with fuckloads of makeup after spending an hour in front of the mirror and then bundling off to some groups friends. The thing is there was no reason for it. I well know some chicks like to make themselves all pretty and shit when they go out but this was just ridiculous.

    The cruncher came when I would rock up to a joint after she'd been there a while and already engaging a group of people (I'm slack with shit like that) and heard her talking about how much she did on date x when I knew for a fact she was just getting wasted with me and some mates on date x. The whole act was so true I could have almost believed it myself..

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  83. ... it was believable because we did do the odd fun thing like skydiving, bungee jumping etc but she interspersed that with a load of crap. She would tell me how she had a modelling contract but turned it down because it was "to mainstream" and to others I heard her say "to controlling" or "to much pressure" or "not stable enough" bla bla depending on who she was with...

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  84. .. She would say no woman would ever be able to compare to her and to just look at the proof, she is so popular and everyone comes to her for advice. But I knew that it was all based on bullshit. When I told her I wanted someone real (no pun intended) she hit the fan. We were still living with each other and would drag back randoms to "prove" to me who she was and what she was capable of. All I asked was they keep quiet so I could get some sleep as I needed to work 30 odd stories up on a new building at 5am the next morning...

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  85. .. She believed inherently that greatness was hers and would talk about how the spirits have told her *I* am the one who is fucked up and not her. *I* was the one with problems because I didn't care about her fucking other guys (I wasn't even going out with her anyway and I fucked other people myself) Go figure. The thing I did notice, however, was she was absolutely fantastic within individual singular groups, but on the occations I got a few people together from different groups she was as quiet as a mouse. Same as when she was with me and no one else to entertain her she was as boring as batshit.. the pretense is ahhh fuck it shutting up now!

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  86. What do you think she liked about you? I have dated men who are fakes, who look at me like I'm going to be so perfect and look great on their arm. I have dated men who hope I have a trust fund. What do you think you have that made her want you?

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  87. I don't know bella.. Wish I did; Then I could avoid the bullshit in the future.

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  88. It's why I really appreciated the others who opened up. Sometimes not giving a fuck can, in a way, be its own worst enemy it seems. Not from an emotional point of view but rather from a getting involved in shit you never wanted a part of point of view.

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  92. I've seen a socio in action. Plays to the crowd, flaunts his knowledge on the specific field, dresses the part, walks the walk, makes the appropriate facial reactions given the story, changes lewdness of stories to match the audience's preferences.

    I've seen a narc in action in various settings, and it's always been the same: try to out-compete for the top-spot, regardless of ability or the actual unfolding of events, and distort said events afterwards in hindsight while devaluing everyone around him. It's hard to truly distort reality when it is mostly based off of hearsay and claims (although it does tend to work if said claims are left unchallenged by any outsiders or events that can disprove claims stated out of context). Narc's facial expressions lacked conviction, felt affected. Narc's stories didn't consider audience's tastes before sharing them, and were a hit or miss. Narc's emotions were less controlled, though attempts at calculation were deliberated. Still sardonic. Still charming. But overt hostility often alienated others, which narc had to rationalize that he was simply too good for his unenthused audience.

    Socio knew I was onto him and couldn't care less when I left.

    Narc wanted to believe no one could be onto him and that his show was flawless, despite his glaring shortcomings in his public displays. Flew into a rage when I left and was vicious in his attempts to keep me enslaved.

    After being abused by both, I ended up "liking" the socio better, in the sense that I found I had more to gain from the chilling coldness of his thoughts and actions that matched reality, more than the delusions that the narc scrambled to keep propped up without being able to present them to others in our shared external reality for others to experience.

    The difference came down to a matter of ability, and the socio was able to follow through on his claims; the narc wanted us to believe he was able to do things without ever proving solid results in the external real world for others to bear witness to.

    To anyone who feels slighted by my comparisons and wants to feel pride in the label they've aligned themselves with: don't get me wrong. Both types are devastating and powerful forces in social dynamics. But in the end, I felt I had more to gain from the socio than I did from the narc. The socio's twistedness seemed nestled in reality – albeit a part of it that I wouldn't recommend anyone poke their heads into. The narc's twistedness existed in his own mind and couldn't be corroborated out in the real world, despite being able to keep up an illusion crafted out of ideas and words for an impressive run.

    Different styles. Different results. Same treachery and torment and anguish and gnashing and wailing of teeth, if that's the kind of thing that gets your rocks off.

    But I see no point in the pissing contest; if you truly feel you are superior, there is no need to devalue one or the other through claims on a forum, as your results in real life will demonstrate the devastation of each type. Both are, quite frankly, terrifying to be around. Less like the feeling of awe while standing on the edge of a cliff staring into the ocean below; more along the lines of staring into the Nietzschean abyss.

    I champion neither type and want to stay as far back as possible from both.

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  93. I think I'm a narcissist rather than a sociopath. A friend once said to me that "I'd rather have a fanclub than real friends" and it is true. All the behaviors I hate are ones that offend my ego. If my partner cheated on me, that would be an affront because he wanted someone other than me, like someone had got one up on me, rather than anything else. I have been looking into this a lot lately trying to figure out what I am. I don't think I am a total sociopath because I do sometimes feel some sympathy (albeit less than most people), but the only emotional range I really feel is jealousy and anger. I genuinely believe I am sexier, smarter and better than everyone else and the second someone doesn't recognize it (which doesn't happen all that often, most people buy in to my projection of myself) I turn on them in an quite obsessive way. I have only had a couple of people dislike me, and I hate those people more than I can say. It seems like normal people just go, oh, someone doesn't like me, that's OK. Me, I'm like, WHY! I am pretty and smart and funny, why the hell doesn't this nobody love me like everyone else does? I wish I could cure it because it is actually hell to be this much of an asshole, to not be able to accept it when your boyfriend says another girl looks nice, to not be able to tolerate criticism, to be able to be fine when someone you meet doesn't think you're the coolest thing they have ever seen...

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