Saturday, August 8, 2015

Going limp: or how to response to a sociopath attack

Sometimes I give advice to people about how to deal with the sociopaths in their lives. Often they ignore the advice, or attempt to cherry pick the advice in such a way that the advice is essentially useless. Or they think they're following the advice, but they do it in a completely backwards way. For example, one time one of my overweight co-worker had decided to start what must have been the 201st diet of his life. He showed up at work and proudly announced that he had skipped breakfast. Another co-worker told him that skipping breakfast would actually make him fatter by triggering the body into starvation mode, such that his body would horde the fat stores while it still could. He promptly left the office and came back with a half gallon of buttermilk that he chugged, all so he wouldn't get fat. 

When people ask me about how to deal with the sociopaths in their lives, all I do is think about what would work on me or what has worked by me against other sociopathic individuals. One of the pieces of advice I often give is a variation on the strategy of "going limp". If the person you are "fighting" against needs any part of your engagement (e.g. they need you to stand up so they can keep pummeling your torso with punches, or they are gaslighting you and need you to overreact so they can portray you as crazy), you just go limp. You very passively do nothing, don't react, slump, relax or cease all efforts or reactions to your adversary. Becoming deadweight is often the easiest and most effective way to lose someone's interest.

This old comment from an old post gives similar advice:

One great way to manipulate a sociopath is to play naive, innocent, unaware. 

Cause major inconveniences for the sociopath but act like none of that was intentional, you actually even have no idea about these inconveniences (and see how they are not willing to share or put themselves in a victim position voluntarily, while being quite pissed off about it). 

They just hate it when 'universe' or 'chance factor' plays against them (a sin they are not in full control) and there is no one there to blame. 

In these situations they are upset but they cannot turn their rage against you because that would be accepting the fact that maybe you are smarter, maybe you are gas-lighting them but that just cannot be, you are so naive and more importantly they are so smart. 

This, of course, works if you got something they want, otherwise you ar non-issue anyway.

Don't ever appear like you know deep psychology around a sociopath, they'll act like they have no idea what you're talking about anyway. 

72 comments:

  1. i'm a psychopath
    and running into another psychopath i sometimes do that
    growing up with one i know how to recognize them
    its funny how good that sometimes work
    every psychopath need to keep learning to expands their "bag of tricks" that's why they have a wide interest


    and....
    1ST

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  2. http://www.law.uh.edu/news/spring2012/0210wipip.asp

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  3. If a sociopath singles you out for abuse, your life becomes a living hell.
    At work you are expected to produce. If the sociopath is abusing you, you
    can't concentrate or produce. That's why I refuse to work or go to school.
    Bastard sociopaths, you ruined my life.

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    1. A sociopath is why you won't do anything. Of course.

      What do you do in your parent's basement all day?

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  4. This is definitely my #1 trick when I encounter another sociopath I am interested in playing with. What fun! But a serious word of caution-the intense physical/mental connection between two sociopaths is incredible, so make sure you want to destroy it completely before you actively engage in its destruction.
    If you play an "innocent", the sociopath believes he is in complete control of the game. The more you tempt him, the more likely he is to become impulsive and take risks without thinking them through completely.
    If you are interested in maintaining any type of relationship with the sociopath do not actively participate in ruining any portion of his life(ie. his job, his marriage), because once you have screwed him, there is absolutely no turning back. You must continue to play the part of the innocent forever and cease all communication. Like empaths, sociopaths tend to hold grudges.

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    1. How can you tell who is a sociopath?
      I was married to one for 11 yrs but o believe I now know others although I m not certain they are ones.

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  5. very very true!
    also the part about "deep psychology".
    and, why do we do this? give advice? I think we think we can't help it, to not to do these things, and also we understand that others better not get hurt. it's not their fault.

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    1. please clarify-"we understand that others better not get hurt. It's not their fault''''.

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    2. I'm saying that we understand that by our typical behavior others get hurt, and yes by rationalizing we think it's not important, but I think that we actually rather to protect them. because we know just because we don't understand them in that way doesn't mean it's not real for them.

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    3. I have read many time M.E. Thomas saying that sociopaths are seen like evil, not welcome, criticized by nearly the whole human kind.
      I really believe that most people (non sociopaths), intuitively, can't welcome sociopaths because they are not "pro-social" people and that a society can't work if people are not pro-social. And most people wish that the world could be more pro-social even if they are not always themselves.It means living in a quite peaceful society, with security and kindness, where people can open up. There are enough reasons to be stressed: work, money, health etc...nobody wish sociopaths attacks (frustrated people attacks).
      Let's imagine a world with a majority of sociopaths... what would be the social cohesion like?
      But still, we can recognize that sociopaths are not always only sociopaths..they can be sometime pro-social...BUT sometime NOT pro-social and that's the main issue.

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    4. so, we understand that the pro-social is better, but we can't help being ourselves, doing all this (or maybe we can, it's just more complicated that being able to do it or not) but still, we like to give a little help for the pro-social happening.

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  6. As much as I get a conscious "experience" with sociopaths, I understand that they are not really making plans. They can't control what is going out of their mouth or abusive actions, it's just popping out when they start to feel something that makes them upset (someone having success, having a good relation with someone...anything that makes them jealous or disturb them). And it is not always popping out...I guess it depends on their mood. So it can pop out any time in fact!
    It seems that few minutes after their words pop out, some of them angry themselves...(like F*** "oops I did it again")... especially if we don't react BUT build up something afterwards that will cause damage to them or keeps us far from them.
    OR/AND they might feel that they broke their image/mask...in one second...
    Still I don't know what is the best way to do while facing a sociopath attack, I used to be always very late to react (but very angry), because of this specific surprise effect. Especially as many time what they say doesn't have a very clear sense or is a kind of lie.
    For example, my sister in law, few weeks ago, while a family meeting for an anniversary, told us that she had the feeling that nobody was listening her opinion when we were all living together (when we were between 18-25, she is 7 years smaller than us).
    I know her quite well, she has a kind of isolated life, very few friends, staying in her apartment, looking teenagers films...not her age kind of. She has nearly no direct contact with us, she cut it slowly with the time.
    It is not true that we didn't listen to her opinion, first she was not really expressing herself, or she was an authoritarian. In fact we would have liked to here her opinions, but to us she looked like without opinions...
    I think that what she is expressing in fact, is the loss of this authoritarian game (we are not living all together as a family together), but also a very limited power as she was the smallest in the shoes of a kind of despot.
    So she is slightly accusing us of not having listened to her...means not having given her a power on us.

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  7. Following....
    This is absolutely absurd, but not for a sociopath mind!
    I have observed this kind of thing nearly with all the sociopaths I know.
    So it looks like they express their unhappiness, of course in a kind of accusation (others fault, not because i'm just a despot that nobody wants to live with), quite freely and like a need to put a suffering out of them.
    I'm trying to show that I listen this suffering, but of course I'm not developing as they couldn't answer my answer about all this.
    This step sister, as well as a friend of mine, are having a psychotherapy...and my friend is really trying to change but she has explained me how difficult it was...that nobody recognizes efforts they are doing. Like if the other people were always asking to much.
    When I'm with her she is really trying to control her "dark side"...and I'm trying to not notice her small slips...but we can't spend many days together.
    Anyway, someone who has a behavior, that is even very few time not "pro-social", will be in trouble with naturally pro-social people.

    So should we notice, not notice the attacks...still I don't know. I slowly think that in facts they are not really directed towards someone, because we are not someone in this case, but just an object with an history that will feed the sociopath attack. It's not about us, it is about nearly anybody when they can't stand us, our happiness, success or anything. I think that I'm slowly taking some distance with these attacks, not giving attention as it is not directed really towards me.
    If i'm successful, I will not stop to be successful just because a sociopath attacks me 5 minutes.
    What is ruining people is that they don't know the phenomenon, and the deep unhappiness of the sociopaths (as they always try to show their perfection mask).
    The sociopaths attacks are having an effect because we think that they can be true and wise...like most people. They are not! In fact they are speaking to (attacking) themselves.

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    1. It is hard to get you.

      My immediate thought was: Why should she care ? Or as Morrisey puts it: Why do I give valuable time, to people who dont care if I live or die...

      So she stops caring and you, the rest, gets pissed at her for not staying in contact ? Cannot be, that would be rather sociopathic, wouldnt it ?

      P.

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    2. How can they be deeply unhappy when they don't feel much, that doesn't make sense

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    3. We care about staying in contact because we are in the same family. It is again about cohesion...and SHE is the one saying that when we are all gone from the family house, we left her alone...

      Again...hot and cold...= not understandable

      About unhappiness, I don't think that any sociopath is deeply happy and balanced in his life. There might be a neurological part, but there is surely a lack of care in their childhood...
      M.E. Thomas clearly said that she get damaged by her behavior and is trying to change and also having a therapy.
      I don't believe that anybody on earth can't feel. Sociopaths have mainly problems with relations, empathy...this kind of feeling. Doesn't mean that they don't feel the whole range of other feelings...like unhappiness...
      I think that sociopathy drives to a cycle, and any mature sociopath can have noticed it.

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    4. Lala,

      I wouldn't preclude it. Any being that lives in accordance with it's nature will be content.

      I like the Epicurean idea of happiness being the absence of pain. Sociopaths can know how to look after themselves, know what they want, know how to get it. The one I was involved with is the most tensionless creature on the planet. Tensionless.

      Something I found very useful was letting go of the need to understand or to tell anyone else's story. I focus on what I want and get it. If I can't get it, I look elsewhere. It doesn't matter what others do or what their motivations are.

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    5. This has to be one of the longest, most rambling posts I have read in a long time. You natter on at length about the many sociopaths you claim to have interacted with, but what is unclear is what criteria you are basing your judgments upon. You sound relatively misinformed on the subject. More to the point- you sound like a catty, vindictive person, who sugar-coats her own sins and exaggerates those of others. "Pro-social", my ass. "Insufferable, judgmental, critical gossip" would be a more apt description, from what I have managed to glean from your quasi-incoherent tirade. Either English is not your first language, or you have a serious deficit in terms of your ability to communicate.





      You claim to be trying not to notice "small slips", but the reality is that you are hyper-focused upon them, to the point of keeping a mental list of minor incidents that you chalk up as "failures", to ruminate upon and gossip about, so as to prop yourself up at this person's expense, and massage your own self-righteous, pathetically insecure ego. You relish excluding this individual under the guise of being "pro-social", for it serves as a convenient and "moral" rationalization for your petty conduct. Truth be told, for you, being "pro-social" requires an absolute conformity to your personal and biased behavioral expectations. Anyone who deviates from these expectations, you label unhealthy and psychologically unstable, and proceed to vilify and shun, making sure that everyone is aware of how "pro-social" and good you are, *especially* as compared to the object of your disdain. This is a passive-aggressive control tactic which relies upon exclusion, shunning and shaming in order to manipulate a person's behavior. When the person in question fails to comply- something must be wrong with them- not you. You are no doubt frustrated by this person's unwillingness to cater to your preferences, and misconstrue these willful acts of "defiance" as personal attacks. Tough titties. It would appear that you selected an apt handle, for you are indeed living in la-la land.





      Truth be told, regardless of whether the person you spend so much time thinking about and criticizing is indeed a sociopath, *you* are controlling, passive-aggressive, petty and catty. Stop focusing so much on the deficits of others, and tend to your own.



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  8. A hard-to-follow advice may be: show no fear. Other self defence-stuff may be the "Scorpio" (zodiac) way of talking when being "disturbed", with cold retorical questions like: "-So I´m bothering you by sitting here quietly eating my lunch, this has really gotten to you? I´m so sorry...so very sorry!" etc..This is a "signal", and violent & hostile people bullying supposedly meek folks may "receive" this. It may end in a very peaceful lunch after all..

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    1. Interesting. And this is the most natural option for me.

      I wonder if power is generally ceded rather than taken? I think all relations exist independently in the minds of the participants; this holds for all relationship types. For example, in a marriage, each partner may have a very different construction in their minds of its operation and the particular qualities of their interactions . A person being dominated may not even realise, but once they do, the power dynamic can simply evaporate.

      In many cases, power is based on perception.

      In a Wire in the Blood episode, an long-abused young man holds a razor to his invalid grandfather's throat. The grandfather is physically helpless. He says "You won't do it. You don't have the power." The grandson drops the razor.

      Keen to hear thoughts.

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    2. Essentially:

      Schizoid personality

      P.

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    3. Sure, or learned helplessness.

      The real question is whether not displaying fear is equivalent to not ceding power.

      Incidentally, fear itself is the best opportunity a human has to expand their "correlation matrices", so to speak. To create new connections and expand beyond their current imagined reality.

      That process is the ultimate thrill. Sociopaths are nice vehicles for this sort of exploration. When one focuses on oneself, there is no battle - the attack is merely redirected.

      Per Aikido.

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    4. Better than "show no fear" would be "have not any fear" because you have understood it all...what it is about, why and when...of course it takes time to understand because sociopaths are hiding everything.

      About my answer above, can people hiding their true nature can be balanced and happy: NO.

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  9. There is a sociopath in my life. This person is dating my husband. Yes, we are on the road to divorce. The two of them occasionally come over to our house WHILE MY CHILDREN AND I ARE HOME! I cannot move out due to financial reasons right now so I am stuck with the two of them tormenting me. I try to act like it doesn't bother me. The spath is always goading my husband to pick fights with me. The spath is never the one actually arguing with me though. Any advice?

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    1. Find another sociopath. Bribe him by screwing him. (If you don't have much money, then you may have to act like a whore.) Then present the socio you seduce with the challenge of "screwing" the person who is screwing your husband an you. Remember, if you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail, even a screw.

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    2. Any suggestions other than whoring myself out?

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    3. Won't he listen when you tell him it affects the kids ?

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    4. The best thing is always to do what you want to do.

      Listen to yourself. You'll find you already know what to do if you give yourself permission to listen.

      Just do what you want to do.

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    5. Best thing to do is show it doesn't bother you. Be engaging. Learn to hide your emotions. Or just walk away. Many sociopaths have an MO though many looking to expand their so called bag of tricks. As long as they know you will respond with emotion which makes YOU hurt or react, they win. That's the goal. It is their need for superiority and ego. It is validation that they are smarter than you. And absolute crucial need to their well being.
      See you're still a threat, the mother of her "new" targets children, live with the target, and are still married. The sociopath doesn't have the ultimate power over the target/their environment hence you are a liability, a danger to their psyche and need of their target.

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  10. I knew the sociopath I was married to never loved me as he wasn't capable of it. At times he was kind to me. I was in a high emotion relationship previously with a soul mate but the sociopath was a welcome change to the constant rollercoaster of emotions. He is so controlled he is robotic and never shows any emotion other than the fake smile. I stayed for 11 yrs. but I have low empathy so it seemed not to bad. If he could have just explained to me what he was so I didn't have to be angry all the time from gaslighting I may have stayed.
    Unfortunately I left him. He waited lying low collecting data then after yrs dropped a bomb. It has been WWIII since bcuz we have a child. He uses the child to constantly provoke and gaslight for 4 yrs now. I fought back with a vindictive vengeance exposing him going to the media reporting him to the dept if state, the FBI and every agency imaginable. He screwed my child's court child psychologist so she would lie in court and testify against me and write negative court reports. I reported both to the states attny general.
    He hacked into my email then called the state police and told them I hacked into his. In court they displayed as evidence a board showing that I reported him to 25 agencies including the president.
    Now I have to have a psych eval. Bcuz the judge believes i am the sociopath. I am highly educated with a high falutent job. Never in my life have I done all this reporting. He will not stop until.he takes full custody away from me. He asked for sole 13x in 16 months. After 4 yrs I feel I should just give him the custody. I tried it. Didn't work. We signed a legal agreement I was relocating across country. He started filing 3 petitions to keep me here.
    I just do not know what to do anymore. If I do not respond to his communication he becomes irate.
    and he is remarried. It is absolutely exhausting waking up everday wondering if the police will call or I receive yet another court date. I am going to try the above advice. I now wonder if he is a psychopath.
    He is very good looking charismatic and his delivery is such that everyone believes his stories bcuz he sounds geniune and caring. He behaved like Jeffrey Daumer for 11 yrs now he is a completely different person with empathy and compassion. Bizarre.
    The giveaway for me was he never shed a tear when his father died and went to work the same day. He never cried ever. He also never had much interest in me and now he wants to communicate incessantly.
    I am afraid he will hurt my child but hope he cares enough not to. He hates me so it also is concerning
    bcuz I have no idea what if anything would cause him to snap. I made matters worse by conducting an experiment. I acted like a diva. As if I was above him
    and told him I am. He became irate and I ended up in front of a judge. He lied and stated I was iradic and yelling. Again the old flip everything around on me trick.
    M.E. gave me good advice at how I can better handle my ex. Bcuz I am forced to communicate with him.
    he of course is diabolical and counters with his own game.
    I realized afrer this that there is no other solution than to cut off all communication. I will.lose all custody and be held in more contempt of court but at some point you have to draw the line in the sand.




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    1. I have to say that I know exactly where you are and where you have been. I have to tell you...DO NOT give full custody. Please!!!! Think about your child. This is not just about him making you pay for leaving him though it is a big big part and is using your child to make you pay. The vengeance of a sociopath scorned is the most dangerous and destructive completely unimaginable for one who is not a sociopath. BUT, your innocent child will not only be made to pay for you leaving, BUT will be either trained to be just how he is or the next to be used. He will twist their mind, destroy their self esteem or redirect it, and that child will truly suffer even if not realizing it until years later.

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    2. I was married to one for 20 years. Mine is a narcissistic sociopath. I learned to diffuse, redirect, hide emotion, use mental tactics versus emotions and physical tactics to combat what he was doing. Did I completely succeed? No, but because of my personality type and intelligence, I could survive better than most and understood what in many ways he thought, how he planned, plotted, and how he would react. I always had more than one game plan.
      When the worst was happening like the attacks on my son, which he "lost" control over himself and if I hadn't responded the right way, my son would be dead or severely beaten, I knew the one way to stop it was stand between them with the phone in hand and threaten to call the police. This was a quick diffuser. Yes, then it became it was my fault, I could handle it because I am a rational person and never lost sight of that, but the thought of losing ultimate control over himself by going to jail was enough to stop him dead in his tracks.
      Mine too did all the email, hacking, tracking, gaslighting, self esteem, control, and manipulation games with me and more. Fee worked on me though some did chip away at me more than I care to admit.
      The thing is all that you did is play into his hand. Every complaint just made you look bad and him good.
      You know what he is capable of. You know the tactics he uses. So stop!!! Think. Remove your emotions from the situation and see how not to play into his game. You are feeding him and yes...the ultimate destruction of you is his goal. I am sorry. That is a cold hard fact, but you have a child so running is not an option. You have a responsibility to your child to protect them.
      I was "kept" and never discarded because I was his "treasure chest". Believe me, he tried to exploit my personality so called "weaknesses". I saw all he did. Thankfully I am not one to show alot of external emotion so he had less to work with that way, but I appealed to his mental intellect. I was the ultimate puzzle that he couldn't solve. But my methods also were "good" for him because I made him think, grow. I am sorry for society. I actually made him much more powerful and that is sick. The weak point with mine is the narcissism is so strong that it is him Achilles heel. This is were he will be so extreme that i learned to exploit it in the end BUT not before. Instead I nurtured it, raised him up to keep him more balanced so that it kept me ahead of him. I guess you can say I learned to play the player. Yes i lost some which I will not get into, but I did come out ahead in the end.

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    3. I am still not divorced, still fighting for custody over my youngest child, but I know him so well that I have been 2 steps ahead the entire way so that it is moving in my favor. Is that dangerous? Hell yeah! He will in the end, either get someone to come after me, come after, come after my little one, or end his own life which he will believe will make him the victor. Because he will believe his family, friends, and my kids will forever blame me and my guilt will eat at me. So he wins even if he loses. I will not tell you what I think about that.
      Anyway, use tactics. STEP BACK FROM THE SITUATION. Right down on paper every step, thing, behavior he has had and YOUR responses. Study it. Then form a plan. Often doing what is out of character for you is the best form of action as it is unexpected and he will scramble, attempt reanalysis, but will not be able to thus begin to make mistakes and his facade will crumble.
      Learn more about sociopathy then learn about YOURSELF. Do a Meyers and Briggs personality test. Find out WHO you are. You'll be amazed to see that once you know your strengths and weaknesses you will feel better, more in control, and be able to know where and how he exploits you. Then take your life back....and your child's. You both deserve it. YOU'RE NOT CRAZY, but he is doing all he can to make others believe you are and ultimately you will be that.
      For all reading this who may be involved with a sociopath that is bad ( not all may be), Never let on, give any clue to what you are doing. Ever. One of my biggest mistakes at the end was saying I'm done. He at first took it as I give up so he went after me more intensely to try to completely destroy me as our life was so out of control he wanted out, but had to destroy me so he could use my loss of mentality as his crutch, excuse to bail out, get sympathy, and to blame me for everything. It was a "must" he had to have. My mistake was that I clarified my wording that I wanted a divorce. This is when it became volatile beyond what I expected. He became physical, but always when no one or only my littlest was around and started really playing the children. He was stupid in that he told me he was going to make the kids hate me no matter how long it took. I planned for 2 months every detail of my escape and caught him completely of guard. What he thought I was doing and what I actually did where so polar opposite that he never had a chance to catch up. Am I playing a dangerous game? Yes. No doubt. As a parent, I have no choice. I cannot walk away. Period. Plus what he doesn't know and never did....I play to win, I don't believe 1+1=2, I am a thinker, intuitive, not a emote, feeler. I can think of so many different ways and answers before the event takes place hence I am never completely vulnerable. Still came out with PTSD, but surprisingly higher self esteem....self reevaluation, turning inward and centering on me has begun to help me heal. I may in some ways have been a victim, but that does not define me. I learned more about me in the marriage and after than I knew about me before...well more that I never understood me. Now I do. Completely.
      And for sociopaths yes there were good aspects to the relationship. I will not deny it. Thus I have no hate for him. I have no pity either though. He is who he is...just get out of my life for good. If he really knew how to play the game right, he would have evolved further than he did. He did evolve through the marriage, but could not get past a point whereas I could. Hence I am stronger, more sure of myself and my capabilities, and will always be happy with who I am. He won't.

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  11. What gives the sociopath the right to take out his/her agressions on me?
    All I ever asked for was to conduct my daily activities without being harassed.
    How can a person leave their cares on the job or some other locality, when
    they know in a scant few hours, the will have to return for another dose of
    harassmemt? Why do I have to keep my finger's crossed that a burly bully
    doesn't notice me just so I can perform subpar work at a job I detest anyway?
    No I tell you! Suicide is better! That way, "the door is open" to a bright, shiny,
    glourious afterlife. Two observations though: A) It sucks to die a virgin. B)
    Should I take some of you with me?

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    1. Brush up on your writing skills ?

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    2. There is no problem with my writing. A) How would you know? B) If I decide to, it will be your scalp only. Have a good night.

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  12. I can see that the passive agressive attitude ME describes would work with pushing away a sociopath.

    Sociopaths thrive on trigering strong emotions in the people they choose. They are usually attracted by smart, energetic, loyal, trusting, empathetic, tolerant people.Take away some of those qualities, particularly the energy, and their interest will wane.

    When you think about it, once the sociooath has stripped a person of those qualities, once they have 'destroyed' them is when they drop them and leave them alone.

    If you realize whom you are dealing with and are able to control your emotions to the point of being almost apathetic and just do the minimum to keep yourself afloat, they will indeed most likely get bored with you and go on to another target, another source of entertainment and energy.

    Now, how you keep them interested in you once they realize you see under their mask is a completely different story. How you use the energy they give you for your benefit would also be an interesting topic. The movie gone girl was mentionned a few days ago on this blog, and I watched it. There expose a concept that resonated with me, right at the end of the movie.

    The sociopath in the movie tells their spouse that they are a better version of themselves with the sociopath around than without. And in some ways it can be true. The sociopath can actually give you the tools and the energy to better yourself. This concept is completely lost on the people who sees themselves as the victim of a sociopath.

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    1. hahahahaha, that´s what she said while putting bitch affleck into place for raising that other dude´s child. he should have put that crazy cunt into jail and maybe taken custody of the child.

      as for startegies dealing with a sociopath, just stop giving a flying fuck about them. zero compassion. if they´re around, just push their buttons and have better things to do, better people to be with (its not that hard when you see them for what they are). if it is physically abusing you, call the police, friends who can beat the shit out of it, or take any means necessary. they basically (subconsciously and instinctively) read and mimic emotions. be honestly utterly disgusted by them and be ready to do anything necessary to get rid of them. they´ll leave...

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    2. OldAndWise, you're right.

      I have a coworker who had decided to start something with me because I wasn't being respectful enough of her rank (she is at best my equal, but officially she's a half step above me). Now normally that's fine, if people want to get squashed they just need to ask, but she's entirely apathetic. Just passionless and boring.

      Which for someone like me that riles up and preys on people's emotions is really frustrating. I think if I were less experienced with workplace conflict I'd have done something stupid and gone off on her just because of how completely irritating she is.

      "Now, how you keep them interested in you once they realize you see under their mask is a completely different story. "

      If I knew someone saw through my mask that fact alone would be enough to keep me interested since it would mean they're either a socio or a very different sort of empath.

      Delete
    3. I told my ex I know he is a sociopath and then I call him out on his games. I even tried to mimic him by giving him a sociopathic stare. It only created more problems. He told a judge I have evil eyes that look like I am in the movie the shining. Now he wears sunglasses even in winter when he has to come into contact w me
      He also dI'd a 369 degree personality change..

      Delete
    4. Old & Wise,
      I always love reading your posts! You are indeed very wise. I completely agree that "a sociopath can give you the tools and the energy to be a better version of yourself"(I had a post @ the pros and cons of being in a relationship with a sociopath a while back, perhaps you remember me?). I've been a victim, and it is indeed a horrible place to be. But if you can allow yourself to let go of the anger, the sadness, the humiliation-whatever the negatives have been, you open yourself up to finding potential lessons in the experience.

      Delete
    5. Hi Scarlet, I'm curious, have you ever played the game with another spath and they "outed you" in order to avoid their own detection-you know, the old zig-zag?

      Delete
    6. Surprisingly no. I've never even had much direct conflict with spaths. The only one I know intimately is perfectly fine with me.

      And the ones I run into just by chance are usually customers at work where I'm the one with the power. So they don't start anything, in fact one of our regulars is very polite. The rest usually just give me that look of common acknowledgement, that "we both know" kind of amused expression.

      The old zig-zag, is it actually that common?

      Delete
    7. "The sociopath can actually give you the tools and the energy to better yourself. The concept is completely lost on the people who sees themselves as the victim of a sociopath."

      O&W, always interesting to read your thoughts :)

      Most people will find themselves falling in putrid mud at some stage. Sometimes it is because they got pushed.

      There are those who sit in it, feel sorry for themselves, cry and whine about what a cruel hand has been dealt them. How they, the sweet innocent, suffer at the hands of the beasts who landed them there.
      They sit and whine and wait for someone to pick them up, clean them up and give them endless reassurance of how strong and wonderful they are.
      The perpetual victims looking for their rescuers to fix their life. Too weak to take responsibility or action, to better their circumstances.
      Funniest thing is that for a majority of these people, the mud is familiar. They SEEK it. It gives them an excuse to fail, attention they crave and opportunities to meet would be rescuers...
      Beyond pathetic.

      Then there are those who might say a few words that would make a sailor blush, or indulge a moment of self pity, then pick themselves up and examine honestly how they came to be there. Then take steps to make sure it is less likely to happen again.
      They are the ones who gain from the experience, come out stronger and better.

      I have nothing but contempt for the former and admire the latter.

      Kat

      Delete
    8. I took the MMPI test. Passed almost perfectly.
      The sociopath did not. I was told this test is the end all be all and detects when you lie.
      I am curious if anyone else took this.

      Delete
  13. "The sociopath can actually give you the tools and the energy to better yourself."...there are better ways to do it as well, mainly by deciding to change by yourself, not because you are in the hands of a sociopath...

    ReplyDelete
  14. The offensive ones are often sadististic and, like predators in the wild, get nastier by the sight of weakness/fear. But deep down in every terrible psycho there is anxiety & doubt: "what if they meet a far worse psycho than themselves, somebody they cannot handle or control, then what..?"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My exes biggest fear is how he appears to the public. He does not want all his nasty emails to be shown to others. I do not understand this.

      Delete
    2. He obviously isn't a high functioning sociopath because he would know better than to ever leave a path that depicts his true nature.

      Delete
    3. "The offensive ones are often sadististic and, like predators in the wild, get nastier by the sight of weakness/fear."

      I like that.
      Reminds me of some of the worst advice given about dealing with bears- to play dead. It does not fool a bear for a minute, nor are they likely to care.
      Bears have been known to eat carcasses they found. Try pretending to be dead as they gnaw on your tender thighs...
      Then again, if I was in bear territory with someone I didn't particularly care about, I'd give them the same advice. Let the bear amuse itself by chewing on them, whilst I get away :)


      Most of the sociopaths I have known are rather clever and adept at reading and deconstructing behaviours. If they feel this behaviour is out of the norm for you, you might trigger their paranoia.
      The problems come when people become convinced that they are smarter than they actually are and are getting the upper hand. That the sociopath is completely fooled by their passive aggressive bullshit.

      They forget that life is not a court of law and the sociopath has no need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt before dispensing punishment.

      If the sociopath suspects that you have been trying to play them, they will not take it kindly.
      Keep that in mind.

      Kat

      Delete
    4. I already majorly played him by doing something major. He was irate and continues to complain about it 2 yrs later. Initially he told me he would not rest until I was behind bars in.a Federal prison. Since then he has tried to have me arrested/incarcerated 3x. I am in a legal agreement w him which is a real problem. I am now in contempt of court on 51 counts and I am not the sociopath.

      Delete
    5. Lol!!
      Majorly played him? You call THAT stupidity you wrote about above as "majorly playing" him?
      Jesus F Christ, woman!
      You threw a world class hissy fit and gave him more than enough ammunition to have you arrested, dragged through shrinks and courts like that and make your life hell for years.
      That's what I call fucking yourself with an unlubricated pineapple.

      Here's the thing.
      You are clearly unstable. He is clearly much smarter and better at this than you. He will keep going until he is satisfied that you have been fucked up enough. And he will win.

      Want my advice? Stop giving him more ammunition.
      See the shrink and get yourself diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. Not going to be much of a stretch for you, trust me.
      Get your ass into DBT therapy. No excuses, just do it.
      Start talking about wanting to get better and providing a safe, nurturing home for your kid. NO whining about the ex.

      Stop all this bullshit reporting and whining. Nobody gives a fuck. All they see is a crazy bitch making this poor bastard's life hell because he finally had enough of your abuse.
      You are making yourself look bad and giving him more ammunition. Just stop.

      The judges (and people in general) will be a lot kinder if they see you as a sick woman who could not control herself, but is now seeking help, trying to get better and be a decent mother.
      BPD is very treatable. It will look much better to the courts.

      Keep this "major play" up and you will only look like the crazy bitch who is refusing to take responsibility, blaming him for everything under the sun, demonizing him, and trying to ruin his life.
      And who the hell would grant custody to a bitch like that?

      Kat

      Delete
    6. Why are you helping her? Let her dig her own grave.

      It's more fun that way.

      Delete
    7. "That's what I call fucking yourself with an unlubricated pineapple."

      :D That's going to be my quote of the week. Thanks for the morning laugh, Kat.

      Delete
    8. Scarlet, that's easy.
      First, I am a sucker for kids. I love kids and the little bastards seem to really love me.
      She mentioned a kid that they were fighting over and who stands no chance of coming out of this train wreck unscathed.

      Second, as much as I love watching people crash and burn, we're not going to get much of the juicy details anyway.

      Might as well try to slow the crazy train a little.


      Sans Dire, you're going to make me blush ;)

      Kat

      Delete
    9. Kat, even if you got the details you would just laugh at her being so naive. You gain nothing really from her so why not tell her what she's doing wrong. Most can't hear anyway. You are right. Her approach not only is wrong but plays right into his hand. Authorities can't see or care. Plus even with proof he'll get a slap on the wrist and come after her with more of a vengeance. She'll still lose.

      Like I said, not all sociopaths are destructive in a volitile, mean way. Many can get what they want and get out with minimal collateral damage. Not all are out to destroy and leave behind carnage. They just want what they need and the smart one's can do it effortlessly and painless to others. Not that they may care, just if it doesn't need to be done why put the effort into it, right? Not all are sadists. That's why so many moved through society undetected which is the goal. Correct? Get, take, get out, move on...
      Kids never come out unscathed. I basically lost one "for now" because of him, but my little one caught on from day 1. Scary though. My little one hated him always. To my little one he doesn't exist. Yes little one is in therapy because I know that not only is little one abused, but learned traits from him. It must be countered. I have been working to rid those traits tirelessly.
      My oldest is severely damaged. Interesting that I was told that I couldn't heal until I got angry when in a dv shelter. Angry over what? Makes no sense and a waste of time. Get stronger and smarter, not angry or depressed.
      Love the frank postings here. Some excellent comments. My head is in the right place and all I've done was predominantly correct from all I've read. Kudos for all that post. This is what people need to know and see. Not all sociopaths are monsters. Many are no different than your next door neighbor. Lol...wake up people. Get off your pedestals of "Poor me".

      Delete
    10. I asked as I would like to determine how to beat this individual. I am not a sociopath, I just left and divorced one but I have limited empathy. Since he has come after me continuously. He does things to me then tells the authorities I did it to him. I assume this is par for the course in this game. I have tried to go no contact we non sociopaths refer to it as grey rocking, however, he refuses to leave me alone. He is also extremely controlling and has complete control almost robotic over his own behaivior. I am in a Jody Arias type situation and not sure how to get it to stop as i do not understand the reasoning behind wanting to continually communicate with a person that wants nothing to do with you. One would think you would get bored of it after 4 yrs.

      Delete
    11. Kat and annonymous. Txs for the feedback.
      Why not just go and present myself as a sociopath? I know all the behaiviors Hares checklist etc. Since you all see nothing wrong w it, I see no reason why it would not get me custody.

      Delete
    12. See that right there?
      THAT is exactly why he will always win, unless you pull your head out of your ass and actually listen to reason.

      Allow me to explain.
      You seem to think that crying "Oh woe is me! Just look how I have been mistreated by all and sundry! Oh won't any knights in shining armour come and rescue this innocent damsel from her plight?!" will make people jump to help you.
      You think the more you whine, the more you will get. You are a fucking spoilt child.

      Not to mention that you are a spoilt brat who thinks that you are right and justified in doing anything you want to do because apparently your "sociopath" ex fucked you up.
      Pretty sure he would have some very interesting stories to tell about you. And considering everything you've said so far, I'd be inclined to believe him. So will others. So will the courts. Especially if he is half as sociopathic as you say he is.

      All your tactics are doing is giving him more ammunition.

      You clearly think that you are much smarter, entitled and more manipulative than you are. If you didn't, you would not be chest deep in Shit Lake and we would not be having this conversation...

      To top it all off, you are passive aggressive as fuck. It is incredibly hard to take a passive aggressive seriously.

      Even if you knew the right buzz words for sociopathy, any shrink worth anything will see through you in no time. And that will be yet more ammunition that you will give your ex.
      You could sell Borderline without even trying much. Trust me. The borderline label will allow you to commence DBT therapy, which is key to starting to get the courts on your side.

      I already explained, albeit briefly, why seeking the borderline label and getting your ass into treatment will be advantageous for you.
      If you need further clarification, then ask.

      Kat

      Delete
    13. I blocked all communication and moved out of state.

      Delete

  15. I'm very excited sharing this amazing testimony about how i save my marriage and get my husband back today, My name is Becky Miller , I live in Los Angeles, California, I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{salvationlovetemple@gmail.comm}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelltemple.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Sam ,{ salvationlovetemple@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Sam, i will always be testifying about your good work.

    ReplyDelete

  16. I'm very excited sharing this amazing testimony about how i save my marriage and get my husband back today, My name is Becky Miller , I live in Los Angeles, California, I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{salvationlovetemple@gmail.comm}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelltemple.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Sam ,{ salvationlovetemple@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Sam, i will always be testifying about your good work.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm very excited sharing this amazing testimony about how i save my marriage and get my husband back today, My name is Becky Miller , I live in Los Angeles, California, I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{salvationlovetemple@gmail.comm}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelltemple.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Sam ,{ salvationlovetemple@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Sam, i will always be testifying about your good work.

    ReplyDelete
  18. How do I get him back after the discard?!!!?!


    I actually don't mind him being a sociopath...it intrigues me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It intrigues you? Really?

      Or is it that you miss having a creature like him heaping praise and adoration upon you?
      All those beautiful things he said about you in the beginning and how he saw such enormous potential in you, that others missed?
      How he made you feel fascinating and more special than you dared to think of yourself?

      Come on, be honest now :)

      He has already seen who you truly are. He has already solved the puzzle that is you.
      He has already decided that who you are and what you give him is not worth him continuing to pretend and make you feel good.
      That's why he discarded you.

      Getting a sociopath back is usually not difficult: give him what he needs and can't get from others easily enough. Give him enough of it that he will be willing to pretend again.

      I say "pretend" because it is extremely unlikely that you have what it takes to make him truly want you again. To make him want to solve that puzzle all over again.

      So tell me... what do you have that he would want?
      And then tell me why you want this.

      Kat

      Delete
  19. My Husband left me for another woman, i am so glad that my husband is back today with the help of Dr Brave, He is Powerful and Genuine spell caster, My name is Becky Miller , I live in California,USA. I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelldrbrave.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Brave ,{ bravespellcaster@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Brave, i will always be testifying about your good work, and for any questions call me on +1(575) 779-6197.

    ReplyDelete
  20. TREMENDOUS AND WONDERFUL THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN MY MARRIAGE
    Hello everyone out here, am here to tell the world how a spell caster brought my husband back Home, i never thought that spell casters are real, until my husband left me. My name is Serena Williams, i work and live in UK, i got married to my husband 12 years ago, we have 3 kid together, we never have any misunderstanding all this years we lived happily,but all of a sudden he changed and started treating my kids and i very bad, later he stooped coming home, he dose not come home at least month, this really bothered me.

    I was browsing through the net one day when a came across on how Lord Micheal saved a woman called Mandy Diana marriage, i aid let me give him a try on this, i never believed in spell casting before i thought that they were all scam, when i contacted him, he told me not to worry that he will help me, surprisingly he told me that my husband will come back to me in the next 24 hours, with a heart full o doubt, it was a shock that my husband came back to me and started begging that he is sorry, and now we are happy once again. Thank you LORD MICHEAL, and if you are going through this kind of problem, here is his email LORDMICHEALSPELLCAST@GMAIL.COM.He can help you solve your problem.Thank you LORD MICHEAL for restoring my marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  21. TREMENDOUS AND WONDERFUL THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN MY MARRIAGE
    Hello everyone out here, am here to tell the world how a spell caster brought my husband back Home, i never thought that spell casters are real, until my husband left me. My name is Serena Williams, i work and live in UK, i got married to my husband 12 years ago, we have 3 kid together, we never have any misunderstanding all this years we lived happily,but all of a sudden he changed and started treating my kids and i very bad, later he stooped coming home, he dose not come home at least month, this really bothered me.

    I was browsing through the net one day when a came across on how Lord Micheal saved a woman called Mandy Diana marriage, i aid let me give him a try on this, i never believed in spell casting before i thought that they were all scam, when i contacted him, he told me not to worry that he will help me, surprisingly he told me that my husband will come back to me in the next 24 hours, with a heart full o doubt, it was a shock that my husband came back to me and started begging that he is sorry, and now we are happy once again. Thank you LORD MICHEAL, and if you are going through this kind of problem, here is his email LORDMICHEALSPELLCAST@GMAIL.COM.He can help you solve your problem.Thank you LORD MICHEAL for restoring my marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  22. How To Save Your Marriage
    A broken heart can be one of the most painful things to heal from and can take a very long time to heal. During these times it can feel like the whole world could light up in flames and it still couldn't compare to the pain inside.

    Of course, admitting a broken heart can be a difficult thing to do and most of us try to continue on with life masking the pain in our heart. With this pain comes many emotions. I was also trying to masked my pain, until i found help, here is my story about how i save my marriage when my heart was broken.

    My wife and I separated 4 months ago and our children, Emily and Robert, live with her but see me every weekend. I was totally devastated and confused until a old friend of mine told me about a spell caster on the internet called Chief Nwaluta Mallam Zack who help people with their relationship and marriage problem by the powers of love spells, at first I doubted if such thing ever exists but decided to give it a try, when I contacted him, he helped me cast a spell and within 48hours my wife came back to me and started apologizing, now she has stopped going out with men and she is with me for good and for real. you can Contact on { nwalutaspelltemple@gmail.com }. If you are passing through all this kind of love problem of getting back your husband, wife , or ex boyfriend and girlfriend. contact Chief Nwaluta Mallam Zack, E-mail:{ Nwalutaspelltemple@gmail.com } Thank you so much Sir Chief Nwaluta Mallam Zack, i will always be testifying about your good work. Tom Brice, NY, United States.

    ReplyDelete
  23. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

    ReplyDelete

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