Sunday, February 12, 2012

Relationships

I am currently in the longest serious relationship that I have been in for approximately the past decade.  I used to not be good at any long term relationship.  Even family relationships would have blow ups and times of estrangement.  I got sick of the drama so I started learning little ways to keep the ship righted.  Now I resolve small issues before they become big issues and I ensure that I am always a net positive in their life.  I basically just channeled my efficiency obsessed self into it, and I am quite good at it now.

The things I have been thinking about recently is what is the proper role of manipulation in a relationship?  I have always said that everyone wants to be seduced (trademark pending?  I feel like that should be the sequel to "Everyone Poops").  With this current relationship, I performed the seduction perfectly.  To use a baseball analogy, it's been my no-hitter.  It was not easy and it was not always clear that it would turn out so well.  (I almost think that it was because I felt no expectations about the relationship being anything but a fun distraction.  I felt no performance pressure, so I performed nearly perfectly.)  I'd tell you about it, but like a baseball no-hitter, the story of a perfect seduction is actually sort of boring.

My question is, now that I have a relationship that seems like it could last and I am interested in exploring that option, do I keep seducing?  Or actually get real?  Well, that's sort of not the question anymore because I have already gotten at least a more real as the relationship has progressed.  I guess it's more like, stay real?  Or step back in and "fix," seduce, or manipulate when the situation warrants it?  Or I guess that's not really the question either, because framed that way the answer would of course be step back in.  I think the question is more like, when would the situation warrant it?  Should it be a most of the time thing?  Or only part of the time?

Things I think:

  • If people could be manipulated/seduced into being happy without knowing that is the source fo their happiness, they would typically choose that (ignorance is bliss, blue pill over the red pill, or everyone wants to be seduced).
  • Some people would feel betrayed if they ever did find out that they were being "managed."
  • People find things out eventually, or things have a way of being found out.
  • Small fixes sometimes just mask bigger problems that don't have such easy "fixes".  
  • I tend to respect people less in proportion to the amount that I manipulate them.  
  • Manipulation is turning down an opportunity to try to find a real mutual understanding on an issue.
  • Mutual understanding usually means the other person is getting better at pleasing me, i.e. reciprocating the seduction/maintenance.  
Other than that, I really don't know what to think.  And yes I realize how funny it is for me to be asking you for relationship advice for a change.  


98 comments:

  1. ME
    Force yourself to develop your empathy. You have it. It is just submerged. When you can feel what the other person is feeling from the vantage point of your own empathy, you will be able to answer many questions which may seem elusive.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes me, force yourself to be someone you're not. Then you'll really be happy.

      Delete
    2. You can't force yourself to feel empathy if you don't have any. You can only fake it.

      We all have to pretend to be someone we're not around other people - but to have to do it 24/7 is just ridiculous.

      Delete
  2. ^^ lulz. reminiscent of the "you aren't actually homosexual, you have a demon inside you... " attitude...

    - Reeves

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think you should let the mask slip a little. The seduction part worked. The mystery behind the seducer is the real spice now.
    My two cents. :)

    ReplyDelete
  4. I've only allowed a few people to see the "real me," as corny as that sounds. it's been gratifying, but it's risky, especially if these people have the potential to weigh in on your reputation in some way.
    I usually begin by casually referencing a few of my more sociopathic habits (with stories or generalizations), then more seriously say that I'm not exactly the most emotional person. Then maybe a more serious story or something... I've found it's best to let the other person make the connection, but *slowly*.

    -R

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. R - when they realize what you are saying and they ask you about it - are you leery or happy? I've been in this situation recently where my Sociopath has hinted at this, now I'm not sure if they want me to address the issue or if they are just playing with me to see if I will "get it".

      Delete
    2. I have a friend who I'm fairly certain knows what I am - she's known me forever and I wasn't very good at the facade as a kid. Obviously, it doesn't seem to bother her - in fact, she actually thinks it's weird when she sees me put on the mask for other people. But when it comes to romantic entanglements, I've never wanted to take the risk of blowing my cover in case that person leaked to the rest of the world.

      It's really a personal choice.

      Delete
  5. it all depends on the other person. some people need to be managed. they don't work well with real.

    ReplyDelete
  6. A good preventative is to practice empathy and put yourself in someone else's shoes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How does a sociopath practice empathy?

      Delete
    2. with lots of whiskey and a roofy

      Delete
    3. Ha Ha. You're funny! :)

      Delete
  7. The Event of ME Asking for Relationship Advise

    ReplyDelete
  8. 1st (but didn't post annything)

    ReplyDelete
  9. Themes for SW RegularsFebruary 12, 2012 at 10:03 AM

    Eden/Raven/Turk/ Anon 1 is hassling me. I did not put up that last song for ME. If anything seems suspect, it is Eden. Such is the nature of SW. Love you all at SW, except a few bad apples.
    x o x o Themes

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you're losing it, Themes! LOL Don't let the paranoia get to you!!

      Delete
    2. Themes for SW RegularsFebruary 12, 2012 at 10:14 AM

      I am not losing it when someone posts songs under my name. It was not I, so do not want ME to think it was.

      Delete
    3. Why should it matter who posted it? It wasn't an insulting song. You should be flattered that someone wants to mimic you. :) It seems pretty harmless to me.

      Delete
    4. Themes for SW RegularsFebruary 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM

      It is NOT harmless because my songs are a personal expression. Now, I am sure Eden is going to be posting all sorts of things as Themes and it will be ruined, but such is life on SW :(

      Delete
    5. Sounds like an ego thing for you then, Themes. You are afraid of not getting credit for your personal expression. This might be a good lesson for real life. When flirting with fire you're bound to get burned. Good luck to you, Themes. :)

      Delete
    6. Well, Eden, you are the loser. Themes is a winner, obviously. You seek to destroy what you cannot originate. Such is the life of petty, jealous people. *sigh*

      Delete
    7. LOL no offense, but I don't think Eden would care if she were not the originator of posting silly songs up, as a means for personal expression.

      If anything, someone is just trying to ruin your good fun, and it looks like it's working out in their favor. Such is the loss of the, "too easy to fuck with", as the two of you can't resist your protest.

      Delete
    8. Thanks Medusa. You do have a rational side that comes in handy when you are not opening your asshole on the Forum.

      Delete
    9. Ami, are you decompensating again.

      Delete
    10. SW Master of CeremoniesFebruary 13, 2012 at 2:32 AM

      Medusa You have earned the position of Ambassador of Maturity. No other SW member graced the pages of SW with an dozens of open asshole pictures and took credit for it. Good job and Congratulations, Medusa.

      Delete
  10. @ME: I have been in a successful marriage for over a decade. I married the one man I was not able to manipulate. I would counsel you to not consider anyone other than your intellectual equal as a long term partner. Otherwise you *will* get bored, resort to manipulation, and ultimately lose respect for your s.o.

    All of my previous relationships ended because I ultimately ended up being manipulative and abusive (emotionally, verbally, psychologically, even physically). I burned through a lot of people before I found the perfect match.


    My husband is my best friend and we work through everything together. He knows about my past. He knows I struggle with these traits, and it has helped him to understand some of the behaviours and personality characteristics which occasionally annoy him (my insensitivity, callousness, impulsivity.) He is an extreme systemizer (scored 109 on that test!) and has a few antisocial tendencies if his own, though his empathy is better developed than mine.

    A logical, highly intelligent person who is *trustworthy* and blunt is a good choice. My husband always calls me on my crap and I love him for it. If you cannot, to a significant extent, be open and transparent with your partner, forget it. Friendship, mutual admiration and respect are very important.

    I am drawing from my personal experiences because it is only upon the basis of my one successful relationship that I can give you meaningful advice.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Theme Song for Alterego and Success in Love
      Good Advice to ME, Alter :)

      Delete
    2. On second thought, it would be incorrect for me to state that I *never* manipulate my husband; it is such an integral part of my nature that sometimes I do it unconsciously, to the point where even a lie sounds like the truth in my own ears. I know how to fuel his confidence, provoke his ire, and persuade his opinions. When I am deliberately manipulative, it is usually so as to empower him. When I am being an ass, he knows it, because he knows *me*.

      Seduction is super important in guarding against boredom. Keep things interesting by sublimating some of those sociopathic tendencies in the bedroom. It helps a lot.

      Delete
    3. Obvious pseudo intellectual is obvious.

      Delete
    4. alterego, i would like to know more about how this works/has worked for you. interested in somebody who is like this.

      Delete
  11. Interesting ME, and I wonder if this is a genuine question from you. But in case it is:

    There are many techniques to manipulate, but what you are finding is that when it comes to relationships that matter over the long haul, techniques will only take you a full circle. There is no method for having a satisfying long-term relationship ME, other than risk being vulnerable and self-revealing. Unless you are prepared to risk something of value to you, it will not be fulfilling.

    True to your nature, you are trying to look for solutions in how best to control the situation. But by doing that, you are cutting yourself a bad deal. If you are always in control, you are also sentencing yourself to miserable boredom, as you are not giving her/him a chance to seduce you in return.

    Ultimately the success of this project of yours will be up to how far you are able to let go of control and risk being vulnerable, and how skillfully she/he is able to handle it and be interesting in return. And this of course means that you are also taking the risk that it might not work at all in the end.

    If your mind is so simple as only to see two alternative options, ‘seduction’ or ‘real’, I’d say pick real. But I like to see the seductive aspects of being real, too.

    And by the way, I would agree that ‘everyone wants to be seduced’ but it’s naïve to think that people need to be happy all the time as you imply. People do need drama, loss and depression to give value and intensity to the moments of happiness. Unless of course you’ve been living in Stepford for the last 30 odd years.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Damn, you are smart, Yellow. How much you charge an hour?

      Delete
    2. Thanks, Anon. I do charge, but not for relationship advice.

      Delete
    3. Hmmm Yellow That is interesting.

      Delete
  12. I'd say take manage is in a subtle and patient manner, you wanna push but you don't wanna shove too hard, you'll be able to interpret what he or she is comfortable with; presuming a mutual level of understanding is what you're after in this relationship of yours. Allot of it's really down to how open-minded your partner's willing to be + what you really want from this, though I somehow get the impression that you're not quite sure.

    ReplyDelete
  13. *I'd say manage it.. Damn typo!

    ReplyDelete
  14. CRACK IS WACK

    ReplyDelete
  15. Replies
    1. Hello dear.

      How are you doing today?

      Delete
    2. Hello Medusa

      This made me think of you earlier today

      Delete
    3. Nice, Yellow, thank you.

      Gaspard de la Nuit is one of my favorite pieces of piano music ever written. Especially the Ondine movement.

      I have the score, but it's one of the most difficult pieces ever written. Someday...

      Delete
  16. I think my husband tries to manipulate me to an extent, but he has strong goals that I agree with that he's trying to reach. I'm pretty laid back and go with the flow, and he's cs trolling so really its win win. But he doesn't have a mask he wears with me. He isn't an act, nor I to him. We are ourselves and it creates a certain level of stability for him, and instability for me. So if what you want is something meaningful that balances you, maybe this person is it. Maybe they aren't. But it all depends on how they match you and your traits. If you manipulate them, maybe that's what you want. Alter is in a similar relationship with her husband. She has control of him but not so much she disrespects him. But she would never consider him her equal. She's a narcissist. But that's OK with him because he knows what she is. You just have to if desired something that works for you, and when you do find it, you don't have to overthink it. It'll just work, really.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A Special Theme Song for Mk and UKan
      With Respect
      Just an Old Favorite from an Old Love Affair ;)

      Delete
  17. What Alter has is the real deal. Don't dare to compare your loser self with Alter.

    ReplyDelete
  18. he is "trolling" to reach lmao

    ReplyDelete
  19. My husband is not my equal. In most respects, he is my superior. For this reason, it is impossible for me to take advantage of him. It also causes me to greatly admire and respect him. In some ways, I am his. This keeps him on his toes. Yet we share the same overarching worldview and life goals, and many of the same traits. We are also transparent and honest with each other. In very real, pragmatic terms, we function as a single organism. He is a part of me, and I, of he.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not doubting your relationship alter. But I can see how vain you are, and how everything you say is to make yourself look better, so I know that you are incapable of seeing anyone as your equal. But as I said, he knows that it's just your ego, and he has come to terms with your beliefs about yourself.

      Delete
    2. WHAT did I tell you? From Pussy Anon he he

      Delete
    3. @Pussy Anon: Don't worry about it. Kanney and her stubbornly erroneous, yet occasionally astute observations amuse me. :)

      @Pop Tart: If you think everything I say here is to "make myself look good", it must be that I look pretty fracking amazing to you, considering what a flaming narc you consider me to be. ;)

      I am just striving to be thoroughly transparent. See in me whatever it pleases you to.

      In truth, I couldn't stay with someone I consider to be my inferior for over a decade; I know from experience that I would dominate and emasculate him, and thereby consign the relationship to failure. I needed a real man, and I didn't settle until I found one.

      Delete
    4. LOL I got myself a name---Pussy Anon.

      Delete
    5. Lol. Don't worry alter, I don't think you sound as impressive as you like to feign.
      I understand what you're trying to say alter. I did the same with my husband. You needed a man to take charge. To be strong and bold, but you also need a man to let you take therein because you don't believe in your heartbeat anyone can do things quite as well as you can. If you ran the world you'd do it better. If you run your relationship you'll lead it well. Your friendships are an example of your need for people to submit to your superior way of thinking and to exemplify your idea of yourself. You collect people that make you look good. They support your image of yourself, the same way the consistent act and flirtatious game you play enhances your appeal.

      You didn't tell me whether you were sleeping with people above you or playing hard to get. Are you faithful to your husband?

      Delete
    6. Missus K You are the fuck all, most annoying person who ever walked this planet. Pussy Anon is done.

      Delete
    7. Take the reigns because you don't feel in your heart that

      Delete
    8. You needed a man to take charge.

      No, I needed a man who is strong enough to handle me as I am.

      but you also need a man to let you take the reins because you don't believe in your heartbeat anyone can do things quite as well as you can.

      This is true regarding virtually everyone *except* my husband. He does most of the things I do well even better. He is truly a golden boy; everything he touches prospers.

      In most situations, however, I prefer to be the one holding the reins.

      If you ran the world you'd do it better.

      No arguments there. :D

      If you run your relationship you'll lead it well.

      Erm, not exactly. I tend to railroad people in relationships unless they are very bright and strong.

      I am a good leader because I am adept at discerning strengths in others and putting them to good use. I am never afraid to be firm or to speak my mind, and I tend to be a bit of a control-freak. Moreover, I rarely become emotionally invested in my projects. I can take or leave virtually anything or anyone.

      Your friendships are an example of your need for people to submit to your superior way of thinking and to exemplify your idea of yourself.

      You are wrong about this, too. I don't have any real friendships, because these require too much time and effort; I have a lazy streak when it comes to maintaining relationships. I draw my acquaintances from a pool of diverse characters, but I have no need to see myself as superior to any of them- I really don't think that I am.

      My Christian friends tend to bring out the best in me, because they encourage and model humility, which I need a good dose of, considering my ego. :)

      I tend to reflect the personalities of the people with whom I find myself. I can fit in anywhere.

      You collect people that make you look good.

      I don’t collect people; I generally try to get rid of them, LOL

      ... and flirtatious game you play enhances your appeal.

      Perhaps I am naturally flirtatious. Yet most people will not perceive this, because on the surface, I am a bit of a tom-boy. I am fairly good looking, but I am a natural beauty and I don’t spend much time preening myself. On good days, I brush my hair. ;)

      You didn't tell me whether you were sleeping with people above you or playing hard to get. Are you faithful to your husband?

      I am completely faithful to my husband. I “cheated” on him only once, in the distant past, but I was very young, and it wasn’t infidelity in the strictest sense of the term, because I had technically acquired his “permission” prior to the incident. Plus, it was with a girl. :)

      She was a lovely little college girl... A virgin and very submissive, right up my alley. I manipulated “consent” out of my husband and seduced her one evening, only to drop her like a hot potato once I got what I wanted. It was a *huge* mistake. My husband flew into a jealous rage, and we got into the biggest fight of our marriage. Also, our tryst completely ruined the friendship, which I am sure hurt her a lot more than it did me, as we were practically inseparable prior to this incident.

      Now that I understand my true nature, the whole thing makes a lot more sense. I was enamored with the seduction process and intoxicated by the power this allowed me to exert over her.

      I would never repeat this error, because I esteem and respect my husband too much to ever provoke such jealousy and ire in him again. I have also matured a great deal in my faith, which does not permit infidelity of any kind.

      Delete
    9. Thinking about said incident... "his consent" = my vehemently insisting that I "needed to explore my sexuality" until he finally assented, in a moment of weakness, that I could do it if I really must. It wasn't genuine consent; he was seeking reassurance and devotion. But I jumped on the opportunity. After all, I had spent years prior to knowing him nurturing this "friendship", painstakingly seducing my prey. I would not be deprived of it.

      I dropped the girl afterward because my husband couldn't stand the sight of her. Can't say that it bothered me very much. I got what I wanted.

      I know it was wrong. I've asked God to forgive me and I have not repeated the error.

      Delete
    10. Okay, first, before I even read that I have to say, Holy rusted metal that's a lot of text!

      Delete
    11. Ok, I got through the first paragraph and got bored of the zhawq like empty responses to every sentence.

      Delete
    12. I'll assume, though, that it says something along the lines of let me tell you how amazing I am, as I come here to open up. :D To truly be myself. I'm not vain, I'm just really great. Oh, do I sound Like I'm trying to compliment myself? Oh Gee, that's just me being honest, how about that. Oh but my husband is a doll.

      Delete
    13. I know that was a lot of text for your brain to absorb in one sitting, kanney, even though the drivel half of it originated with you.

      As for your response; that's about the gist of it, pop tart. Should I be flattered you think I'm so awesome? :)

      My husband *is* a doll. I'm happy to let him shine, and bask in his reflected light. I'm no astrology buff, but I think it's very fitting that I would be a cancer, and he, a leo. Perfect, really.

      How does *your* husband define success, pop tart? By expanding his drug turf?

      You must be so proud. :)

      Delete
  20. Alter, you are talking to trash. Keep that in mind.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Er, *him*, that is :P

    ReplyDelete
  22. Whatever. Stop talking trash about people behind the cover of anon, it's pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Do what you want, Alter. If you want to engage her, have at it. Just trying to help.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hey, if a speeding car is coming at you, remind me to look the other way

    ReplyDelete
  25. I don't get this convo. Please, enlighten. Who is speaking to whom about whom?

    ReplyDelete
  26. ME's choice of book "Everyone Poops" is sweet

    ReplyDelete
  27. if you like pina colodas

    ReplyDelete
  28. Theme Song for Pussy Anon
    Want to Play? :)

    ReplyDelete
  29. Themes for SW RegularsFebruary 12, 2012 at 6:22 PM

    Since Eden took over Themes, I will ONLY be doing Blasts from the Past. Themes has retired, sorry to say, but such is life on SW. If you see anything other than" Blasts from the Past" it is not I.
    Goodbye with Love from Themes <3

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. :D ومن شأن ذلك أن شيك ماتيه

      Delete
  30. I am a sociopath, or, rather, in a weird way partially a sociopath, I can have some emotions, but when I do they are typically extremely strong (typically only towards someone I'm in a relationship with) in other cases, I could care less. But I would say try to make it a real relationship, seducing is easy, I've done it to seven separate girls at the same time, relationships can be more difficult, and it's an interesting experience, and I personally find anything interesting to be good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not sure I catch your meaning.

      Delete
    2. She means you're a wannabe.

      Delete
    3. Everyone wants to be a sociopath. I got over it but then again I still can barely tolerate a no-masker.

      Delete
  31. Figure out what you want to do and then do it, because if what makes you happy turns out to make him/her/it happy then it's a win. I mean, a relationship shouldn't just be about what you can do for your partner.

    ReplyDelete
  32. If I were the person you're talking about, I would want some honesty from you. People aren't as easily fooled as all that, and your 'differences' will be part of the reason they want to be around you in the first place. Speaking from my own experience, I'd want to hear something like "this is who I really am, this is what I am like and what I'm thinking a lot of the time. But you are a special case, I don't want to hurt you, and you will be one of the few people that I trust with this information."

    Working in the other direction, that is the nicest thing about my longest-term relationship; that my partner and I have had this conversation and they are able to accept the shallow emotional responses because they know I value them and stay with them for more rational reasons. Doesn't make it easy, and I'm not always nice to be around ... but it seems to work OK.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I am a diagnose disempathetic sociopath, this being said I find that I'm able to bond with only a couple people on a level that is not necessarily "normal" but rather as close to normal as I can achieve. This is however only with these few people and not my family (i.e. mother, father, siblings etc.). I have found that I will go to great lengths to try and do things for her that bennifit her but do not necessarily bennifit myself (e.g. her being happy will generally get me what I want in the long run anyways). I do as you have mentioned and try to solve problems while they are small rather than wait for it to turn into something big where as me walking away from the problem because I do not care enough to try and solve it is not the acceptable answer and this keeps things generally peaceful. We have been together for 5 years now and are happily married with one child. She now knows that I am a sociopath and accepts me all the same as she did before though she notes that it explains why I act the way I do. She says she loves me no different than before. But I can't help and wonder how long it will be until she asks the question what have I lied to her about over the years that was of any conciquence. I hope that if and when she does will she accept the route of "ignorance is bliss" and leave it be, or will she demand the answers and be willing to accept them as part of the flaws of being a sociopath.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If she is smart she won't ask.

      Delete
    2. I was thinking the same thing, it's nice though, I use to try much harder than I did to seem as though I cared about things that I quite frankly didn't. She's understanding enough that she doesn't expect me to put on the same show I have been so far.

      Delete
  34. Go as vulnerable as you can ME. At least it'll make things interesting!

    ReplyDelete
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