Monday, May 30, 2011

Asperger's as insanity defense

Hot on the heels of sending psychpaths to prison indefinitely on account of their diagnosis, a Philadelphia Inquirer article discusses letting Aspie's and Autie's off the hook on account of their diagnosis. Under the headline "Asperger's presents new challenges to court system," the story of James Lee Troutman, a 24-year-old man who confessed to raping and murdering his 9-year-old neighbor:
The so-called Asperger's defense is cropping up in legal cases nationally, as lawyers argue that people with the disorder may be incapable of completely understanding the ramifications of their actions or expressing remorse in a socially acceptable way.

Troutman's defense attorney, Craig Penglase, said his client told him he has Asperger's syndrome, a mild form of autism, a development disorder that causes significant delays in language and cognitive development.
***
Asperger's may become a factor with Troutman, who faces first- and second-degree murder and related offenses. A first-degree murder conviction could potentially carry a death penalty.

The disorder alone doesn't meet the standards for an insanity defense, but it could be a "profound" mitigating factor, information presented in court that could result in reduced charges or a lesser sentence, Penglase said.

The biggest challenge likely will be showing a human side to a man accused of a most inhumane crime. Especially before jurors who may be unfamiliar with autism disorders.

"It's difficult to explain to anyone, anything that is not part of their daily life," Penglase said. "If you don't have it in your life it's incredibly hard to appreciate it."

Sell agreed that convincing the general public that people with Asperger's may have little or no control over their impulsive behaviors or reactions is a challenge.

"People are (thinking), 'My God this person has no sympathy. What a horrible monster,' " he said. "No, that is how people with Asperger's commonly are. It doesn't mean they don't understand or feel what they did was wrong."
***
At least 22 U.S. criminal cases since 2002 involved convictions that were avoided, in part, because of an Asperger's syndrome diagnosis, according to the Autism Society of America. The survey is being updated, Sell said.

Generally, the courts take the disability into consideration during the penalty phase of a trial, Sell said.

"I have a feeling we have a lot prisoners in the general population with Asperger's that have not been diagnosed and are doing time right now, and they're not getting the appropriate help or supports," he added. "And that is scary."
Really? That's the scary part? I thought the scary part was remorseless aspie's running around raping and killing children and we send them back into the community with a slap on the wrist. It reminds me of the Langston Hughes poem:

That Justice is a blind goddess
Is a thing to which we black are wise:
Her bandage hides two festering sores
That once perhaps were eyes.

46 comments:

  1. This guy said that he was too depressed to know right from wrong. I don't think Asperger's syndrome alone will be considered a free pass either.

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  2. Fuck the justice system, fuck asperger's, fuck sociopaths, fuck normal people, fuck everybody. FUCK YOU ALL.

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  3. Here the fuck we go again with the aspie bashing shit.

    This is an issue with almost 90% of disorders that effect cognitive development in anyway.

    Sociopathy/Psychopathy is not really a psychosis. It's basically a person that cannot feel remorse. Most times, 'sociopaths' have ASPD, which is just an adult term for someone who doesn't follow the rules of society.

    While I never advocate the killing and raping of anyone, S/P and autism are not on the same fucking boat.

    Yes this is an emotional response.

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    1. Try living with an aspie or two, cuz guess what? Yeah- aspies are IDENTICAL to sociopaths. Truthfully, I feel more comfortable around socio's than aspies. They're fundamentally the same, but at least socios aren't clumsy idiots to boot. A psychopath is a well-oiled killing machine. A sociopath is a well-oiled manipulation machine. Aspies are just 5-year-olds with nuclear weapons.

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  4. *headdesk*...*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

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  5. Psychopathy and Sociopathy are legitimate pathologies because they are not life choices.

    Hell, even ASPD is not a life choice.

    So someone is born with a type of autism that greatly reduces impulse control. He should get a break, but the born psychopaths that have low functioning impulse control shouldn't? They essentially have the same issue that got them in a courtroom to begin with, low functioning impulse control.

    As far as I'm concerned, they're on the same playing ground goes as far as 'disability' or 'insanity' that led to said crime in the first place.

    I don't care if someone is normal, schizophrenic, psychopathic, autistic, or even fatally clumsy, if someone killed my kid, I wouldn't give them a free pass. End of story.

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    1. Aspergers does not reduce impulse control. If anything, it increases it. (I have aspergers, by the way.)

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  6. woah, TNP, cool response, good to see there is common ground between different neurotypes....

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  7. why are most posts about aspies? i don't find them interesting.

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  8. Serial rapist killer aspies go, I wonder if he took pictures?>.> I wanna be immune to the law. I have a friend who is an aspie... Hmmm yes It's all coming together.

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  9. kesu, why don't you take advantage of him? i thought spats take advantage of anyone that comes into contact with them, wheel chair bound or not.

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  10. Um... What do I have to gain? he doesn't have a lot of money or anything really nice. He is just smart and good at figuring out mathematical and computer related things. He does though things for me all the time.

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  11. i heard of one guy who tried for mitigating circumstances by saying his dad was a thief and his granddad was a thief and his great-grandad... therefore he had a genetic predisposition and it wasn't his fault. in all jail time there is a component for punishment and a component for separating the person from society - if you are more inclined to commit a crime for whatever reason i'd say the punishment component should be reduced and the separation component should be increased. in other words the jail time should be the same and you yanks should all stop whinging about how nothing is your fault :)

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  12. that's funny res. I always enjoy telling the story of my ancestor's criminal reputations early in a relationship.

    I think i'm going to stop doing that.. although i do enjoy the date's reaction, hahahahahahaha!

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  13. Am I the only person that laughed?

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  14. apparently i am.


    hhahhahahahahahahahahahh!

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  15. Aspies, do you think aspies blurt to get a rise out of people? (Please only respond if you're an aspie)

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    1. No. I'm an aspie.

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    2. Yes, I do that alot. Sometimes I tell lies, sometimes I say something stupid but most times I'm just being brually honest about how I feel because I learned that's the most inappropriate thing you can do, ironically.

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  16. This guy is a sociopath playing an aspie card.

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  17. the guy reference in the post

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  18. "I thought the scary part was remorseless aspie's running around raping and killing children and we send them back into the community with a slap on the wrist."

    Thank god somebody has said this, finally. There seems to be this idea in society at large that it's abhorrant to punish criminals too harshly and it must be avoided at all costs, but for some reason it's not a problem to have an excess of criminals out attacking innocent people due to lenient sentencing. Empathy at work.

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    1. Aspergers has nothing to do with violence. I have aspergers and I would never hurt anyone. I have friends with aspergers, and they would never hurt anyone.

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    2. You're making a generalization based on yourself. I have aspergers and I have, could, and might hurt somebody again.

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  19. I've got AS and I've never married - and neither will I either. I take things literally and therefore the parts of the wedding ceremony that state 'forsaking all others' and 'till death do us part' mean that if my wife were to be unfaithful it is beholden on me to kill her...therefore I have to remain lonely and isolated.

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  20. You are so sweet, Lee. If you tell certain women this, they will help you write your own vows -problem solved.

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  21. Can we have examples of aspie friendly vows and dating conversations?

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  22. Who said anything about being sent back into the community with a slap on the wrist? Insanity defense = indefinite detention in a mental hospital. Definitely not ‘getting off the hook’. Besides, to aspies it generally wouldn’t even occur to us to hurt people, let alone rape and murder. Maybe blurting stuff out to get a rise, but that's not even close to the same thing. I think the blog owner is projecting his sociopathic will to violence and lack of remorse onto us and it is really offensive and hurtful.

    June 2 anonymous said:

    “Aspies, do you think aspies blurt to get a rise out of people? (Please only respond if you're an aspie)”

    Yes! I did this for years and years and years before I realized how much it was hurting people I cared about. That was a humanizing moment for me.

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  23. Had my spouse of 5 years recently raped by someone who claims to have aspergers. Also claims that she is is girlfriend....met him 6 days prior to the rape.

    Waiting arraignment/psych eval on this creep. I do not understand how someone being fucked up to the point that they are a threat to others became an excuse in our society or justice system.

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    Replies
    1. What happened to your spouse is horrible. The guy didn't do it because he has aspergers. Aspergers does not cause people to do that. He did it because he's a jerk

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  24. "I thought the scary part was remorseless aspie's running around..."

    Remorseless aspies. That phrase does make little sense if any at all. We all know lack of remorse is a landmark sociopathic trait, it takes a sociopath only to have no remorse. Aspies on the other hand...well, your sentence has got to be a joke.

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  25. What a bunch of fucking bullshit. I am autistic and I can testify that we know right from wrong--every single one of us. This is a monster who is pulling the Aspie card. I would take care of him myself if there weren't laws against it.

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  26. Raping a 9-year-old IS NOT WHAT PEOPLE WITH ASPERGERS DO! For someone to use Aspergers as a defense for such a terrible crime is a bunch of BS! I have Aspergers and have never considered raping a women, especially a child. Nor have I considered killing someone! We know right from wrong! I cannot believe someone is actually trying to use Aspergers as a defense. Because of this, us people with Aspergers will continue to be misunderstood and feared. I THINK THIS GUY SHOULD GET THE DEATH PENALTY AND DON'T LIKE THE IDEA HE IS USING THE FACT HE HAS ASPERGER'S TO JUSTIFY HIS CRIME! Please people, not all people with Aspergers will even consider raping someone, especially a child! This is not a symptom of Aspergers and it shouldn't be assumed that someone who has Aspergers will do things like this.

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  27. I thought the problem was a bunch of remorseless SOCIOPATHS running around claiming to have Asperger's to get away with killing and raping children.

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  28. This is such a standard sociopathic strategy to manipulate the public- putting on the " autistic" mask, pretending he is an Asperger, as society lately opened up to the condition. I haven't met yet any autistic person that would rape. Or kill innocent people. It's just against logic. The usual hurt Aspergers do is not understanding their peers intentions which often result in hurt...felings.

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  29. Socio's so want to be us, sadly they cannot...

    No to blurting! Not really interested in people's rises or falls.

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  30. I was raped in a car by someone with Asperger's Syndrome. He thought that if he wanted to have sex, he should have it, right now. He said, "I love you. I respect you." And I think now that he was saying that to make me put out, but when I didn't respond the way he wanted, he forced himself on me. Of course there was no protection, and apparently since he has never had protected sex in his life, I naturally caught something from him, and have to be treated for that, as well as the psychological scars of the incident. I felt ashamed, like my existence was somehow made meaningless by his actions. I told the two friends of his who introduced us that this was the unfortunate reason why I am no longer speaking to him. I got no sympathy, because to them, he is a shy, gentle soul: "If he were normal he would be married already." And that was that. He

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  31. I have ASpergers, and by reading this I know exactly what to say, but then again I'm not the average Aspie. In most cases they have a far from real outlook at the world, all social skills are a learned thing until they become 2nd nature, then it becomes easier to cope with thing, but under no circumstances can that justify ones actions. I've been through a lot, but then again every gift has a curse. I do conclude that if taught a realistic view of the world, and then the social skills any child, adult, or individual with a social impairment can be taught proper procedure for socialization. But then again I have scored 182 on the RPM.

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  32. Aspie/Autistic propaganda = more raped women!

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