Thursday, February 17, 2011

Sociopaths in media: Underdogma

The first part of this interview is an interesting exploration of how and why people resent those who have more relative power, possibly explaining the knee jerk reaction to hate sociopaths.

The last part about "America's enemies," is either inane, or he didn't get enough of a chance to explain why it's not inane.

81 comments:

  1. If the motives behind power is known, would there be any reason not to fear or resent it?

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  2. One thing i never did was cheer for the underdog, I'm always with the winning team.

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  3. It's middle class/upper class situation, if you go into a poor area wearing a suit and bragging they will think you are a snob because they feel threatened, if a smelly person walks into an upper scale restaraunt they will be given looks and in extreme cases shown the door, it's superior complex vs. inferiority complex.

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  4. Adam, that type of nonsense will lead to a self deception even I could take advantage of :)

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  5. Give a further explanation.

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  6. Anyone else notice his facial expressions?

    -Outer eyebrows raised every time he emphasized the word, or word that accompanied, "power".

    -Full eyebrow raise with upper eyelid raise when mentioning terms like "reflexive".

    -Showed a momentous expression of disgust when saying the word "bow".

    -His constant blinking, however, was just nervousness.

    -----------

    This guy has quite the ego and judging from the expressions associated with my second point, he doesn't believe a word of what he says. I don't doubt he desires or even relates to the idea of power, but this guy couldn't be objective about the subject to save his life.

    Most non-fiction authors like this have alternate agendas. Never did like them all that much.

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  7. No, looking at a persons every expression is kind of creepy.

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  8. I fixate on those types of things naturally, but lately I've been doing some reading to hone the skill.

    It's useful. We do it anyway but the ability to draw into the specifics is too much fun.

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  9. The first part of this interview is an interesting exploration of how and why people resent those who have more relative power, possibly explaining the knee jerk reaction to hate sociopaths.

    Assuming most sociopaths are in a position of power to begin with.

    Surely M.E. knows better than to base his arguments on an unproven presupposition.

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  10. "Anyone else notice his facial expressions? "

    He certainly had the busy face. I found it somewhat distracting.

    I've cheered for the underdog plenty of times. I've also cheered for the New York Yankees on occasion. Why I pick one over the other, I can't explain.

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  11. Why would a reaction be "knee-jerk" to someone or some type that has been proven over the ages to cause harm, to punish, to ruin lives just for fun? Gimme a break.

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  12. I agree with Loki. This guy not only wants to make money (big time brownnosing to Americans) but also is not at all mentioning the fact that people actually stay away from the victims, hence supporting the powerful.

    Any good references on reading material for body/facial language?

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  13. Read Postmodern Sociopath. Mask of Sanity commentary for facial expressions.

    Also any old acting handbook. Dramamtic, indicational body language, used subtly can be helpful. Full on all the time, it does look kind of unnatural and exhausting to watch in large doses. Used in public speaking it can be used effectively. If more students of law studied it, juries won't be so inclined to fall asleep.

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  14. Good cartoon animation is also good. You can stare at an image, read the text and get an idea what the character is all about with one glance.

    Vocal indication is something else. I have an old boyfriend who hated talking to me on the phone in the beginning because I sounded guarded and snarky(think). He liked me better in person, and he told me so. I found that to be an interesting observation. I said I was probably trying to be tough, that it is a hard exterior. At the time I thought I should pay more attention to that because I liked him. But now I think it was an instinctual reaction to a passive threat. I'd never thought about how I can come across on a purely vocal level.

    If you lower your voice and close your mouth, it sounds like you're seething and waiting to pounce.

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  15. He could pronounce Ahmedinijad a little too well for a true conservative... not to generalize or anything but have you ever seen fox news? Those fools be calling Tahrir square, tuh-reer. He's probably out to make a buck... and it will probably work. Isn't that the fun of flexible thinking though? Being able to see at least two sides to every argument?

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  16. Watch Lie to Me for detecting liars.

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  17. It doesn't take a genius to know that those budhists are retarded, they are going to smack themselves when they are grey and old and figure out that they've wasted their lives doing feck all.

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  18. I've always come at these situations from an egocentric position. I ask my self a series of questions.

    >Does either side offer me a benefit?

    >>Which sides offers me the greatest benefit?

    >Does either side affect me negatively?

    >>Which side affects me most negatively?

    If the answer to both starter questions is no. I tend to ignore and move along. I relate to everything in this way. My general philosophy is that the world only has meaning in it because I am in it. Without me, in the world, the world means nothing to me, thus, it is meaningless without me. This applies to all things and all situations, of course. Caring or giving thought to something that has no bearing or consequences to myself seems a waste of time.

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  19. @Kesu, that is the way most intelligent people look at things

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  20. Yeh Buddhism is retarded, some of the meditation stuff is quite cool, they've got some quite cool quotes. As for reaching a state of enlightenment through sitting there doing nothing, well, you know the deal. Don't get me started on that shit about magical powers.

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  21. I enjoyed laughing at this thought process: Not paying attention to philosophy puts us at a philosophical disadavantage to our enemies.

    That is a failed thought process because it puts philosophy at a deity-level construct meant to not be over-ridden by (any) strategy.

    Also, we ALL know that philosophy is junk on a cereal box.

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  22. @ Anonymous, I would say that Buddhism is no more or less "retarded" then any other religion. All religions have magical/mystical parts to them. Remember that religions were created during a time when science didn't exist, with few exceptions. Anything that happened that was caused by an unknown or unseen force was magic. Of course religions tend to have exaggerations in them of events. Some times this produced a mystical occurrence.
    On the subject of mediation/prayer(which are neurologically the same thing) these actions can wonderful affects. The most important of them are the ability to give concepts to your subconscious. At least that is what I identify as the most important one. With better communication to the subconscious one can gain better impulse control and a higher degree of understanding ones self. This can allow the S to discard the pieces of him/herself that negatively affects them.
    On a further note I, as a self realized S, have gone through many series of personal battles to improve myself. However, I must say that improvement to myself is only the gaining of further abilities of controlling myself and my environment. The only reason I even gain control over my internal self is to gain control over the external realm. This leads me to a question. Do any of the other S's on this site also make a conscious effort to do types of "self improvement".

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  23. @anonymous, I don't mind you disagreeing but what is your personal philosophical view then? Also why is it a failed thought process exactly? Also, I never said I didn't pay attention to other philosophical thought process but merely that this is one of my highest ones. With the absence of ones self what can have possible meaning to ones self?

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  24. Kesu get fucked, we prefer to talk about interesting things here.

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  25. @anonymous I think I'll pass. Aggravation is a sign of weakness; an inability to cope with and or combat an opponent. Thank you for playing. You make me feel nothing but superior. Now let someone with an actual intellect step forward. BTW if my comments are to your disliking feel free to ignore them.

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  26. Do any of the other S's on this site also make a conscious effort to do types of "self improvement".

    February 17, 2011 4:08 PM

    I can only speak for my ex- boyfriend. He had "The Power of Now" at his bedside, and a pamphlet for meditation. His best friend is a world renown yoga guru. He is fascinated by her power but I don't know exactly what his view is on her philosophy. I haven't a clue where he is in his self improvement strategies, as he didn't discuss things too openly. He also claims that he was disenchanted by therapy because the therapist "fell asleep" on him. I saw prescriptions for antidepressants which he never filled. I imagine he felt the need for some find of inner peace. (Actually, I only suspect he is an S. I am no doctor;I am only guessing he is.)

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  27. @anonymous. May I ask what makes you think he is an S? Keep in mind depressed people could easily act like an S. Self absorbed, shallow emotions, a general disinterest in following norms, and a list of other things. If he is an S the drugs wouldn't help. In some ways they might even make him worse. Sending him into a coccain like high(AKA mania) but that would only be if he was bi-polar. What are his particular symptoms of Socio/psychopathy?

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  28. s for sociopath or for subconscious?

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  29. I am like Kesu, in that I believe in steadys elf-improvement and change to control the inner self so I can control the environment or my reaction to it better. This is not a socio trait exactly. SOcios (unlike most on this site) are thought to be uninterested in self-analysis, they are supposed to just act with no long term planning, or improving themselves. Look at UKan, his idea of self-improvement would behow to install higher levels of fear his objects. He'd never consider improving himself, read his stuff and you'll see. He is perfect as is and is only trying to best leverage all his greatness. It's about not getting caught with him, he is operating at a very basic level of intelligence, like most aggressive sociopaths.

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  30. I don't th9ink I've read a self-improvement book past say, skimming the table of contents if the book's title was provocative.

    But everything I read, every story I hear, and every show/movie I watch, I usually find bits of knowledge, wisdom and insight to help bolster me. It's not that I look into them for that purpose, it just happens. Maybe that's natural, or maybe that's slightly more exploitative, I have no idea. Even a stew full of shit occasionally has a speck of something useful inside of the pot.

    When I write my own blog, it's mostly introspection. I think it has been the only time I've looked back on my life and measured myself, to try and understand my nature and personality better. It hasn't vastly improved anything, but it has been an interesting journey with occasional quality discourse.

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  31. just finished watching Sherlock and OH MY WORD the cliffhanger!!!
    The next series can't come too bloody soon...

    The guy that plays Moriarty is great - loved him!

    the only let down was the chinese woman in ep 2 - bad actors drive me mad and she was shite! argh.

    apart from that - ooh i like. :D

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  32. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  33. @Seku that sounds more like a psychopath. Someone who has an actual brain deformity. Technically by medical standards Sociopath=Psychopath. That is a gross simplification though. There are a lot of doctors who separate the two. Narcissism is a part of being a Psychopath. Just like violence is a part. My personal opinion is that there is a difference between the two.

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  34. @notme. I would just like to state for the record I've never regretted anything I've done. My retrospective look has always been done to do what I like to do better. Which is play the game that I think all sociopaths play. I also tend to be a more cerebral person. Do you most of you all tend to stay in the moment?

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  35. Regret is Worthless...

    Every misstep leads to a new path

    Every cut, bruise and break heals to toughen

    Every failure helps you find a new victory

    Every friend lost is an enemy known

    Every second ill spent is a lesson learned

    Only Death is true failure, and I doubt my corpse will care.

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  36. that moon still looks amazing...love it M.E.

    Kesu
    Umm, do i tend to stay in the moment? I don't do long-term plans, or any plans that i always keep to. I have to force myself to slow down and digest an experience since I'm emotionally and impulsively excessive! So yes, i guess i live from fix to fix, and as far as regrets - not more than a couple, but they're big ones for me, one regret is too many for my liking.

    I wasn't always this impulsive, quite the opposite. I go through phases it seems.

    Sorry, I don't know if that answers your question. Maybe if you could clarify a bit more...

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  37. Note, do you have any ideas how sherlock and watson get out of that mess at the end??? I'm dying to know they'll be ok!! I love freeman - great actor...

    Oh, i deleted my earlier comment cos i thought it might be a bit of a spoiler. oops. Aren't i nice

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  38. There are many possibilities... Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

    ;)

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  39. @notme, for the most part yes that answered my question. From what I've read that seems to be the norm for Sociopaths. In fact, I was very impulsive during my adolescent years. It really wasn't until I turned about 20 that I gained a measure of control over my impulsiveness. The only reason I gained the measure of control that I did was because of a certain event jump starting my internal search to diagnosis and self realize. As far as actual planning for the future I would say I still have a minimal of that. People would and still do ask me what are my plans for the future. I generally give the standard lines of work, enjoy life, get married. It is something I've always found lets people move on feeling that I am on the "right track". When really when it comes to long term planning I usually think something like what will be will be.
    What do you mean by emotionally excessive? I tend not to have any type of emotional reaction to anything. With the exception of occasional anger. Even that fades for me rather quickly. I tend to intellectualize everything. Is the experience difference for you? If yes how so?

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  40. oh sorry, i thought you asked me specifically since you knew i was BPD, not socio!! lol.
    No i'm not a socio, but i can see the links in what we've said too.
    Cluster Bs tend to be more in the moment. Similarly, since my diagnosis and learning about my behaviour objectively, I now consciously try to pace myself emotionally, (put a leash on it constantly).
    I'm emotional cos i'm BPD not socio. hehe. so, now you know...

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  41. I gained some measure of control over heavy violent impulses right around the time High School started.

    General impulse excess from substances/abuse/sex probably didn't calm down until my mid twenties.

    Nowadays, I figure I'm about as "solid" as it's going to get if I don't want to be behind bars. That hasn't been my main worry as of late though. I'm probably going to have to move. Apparently I look a lot like someone from nearby gang, and almost got into some serious trouble the other night. Luckily I didn't speak his tongue and was still wearing my work badge, or it might have ended badly. Now I have this sort of section of a neighborhood/commercial area that I have to avoid, that or drastically change my look.

    I don't like my apartment THAT much.

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  42. move Note! don't get killed! :)

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  43. Kesu said @anonymous 4:08 May I ask what makes you think he is an S?

    Lots and lots of things. First off he said he was "antisocial" He complained about intimacy issues, he hid my medicine from me, he manipulated me into braking up with him, he tested me on my loyalty constantly, and when I told him the story of the scorpion and the toad, and that the most important thing about the story was that they both drowned, he said that was the smartest thing I had ever said to him. He took this as a threat. It was, actually, but I am just coming to terms with this. This was in response to him being a dick about safe sex. He was wreckless about it and had no concern for my safety. He has a hard time sustaining relationships with women who are not easily manipulated. He told me so. He left the door open when we broke up (as did I) He will only contact me if he feels his own safety is in danger. I tested him on this. He wanted to bond with me early on in the relationship without a foundation. He wanted to know which one of my best friends was fatter. He thought that the fatter one would be the one to try to get me to break up with him. He was constantly trying to figure out what made me tick. I was baffled by this. I just thought he was weird and interested in me. No. He was so attuned to authentic empathy in other people that when we kissed passionately, he mentioned to me that he didn't think I "meant it" the first time we did so. He was a master manipulator. A master. But he has no friends. He's high functioning. But what an asshole. I loved him. He helped me with my career, he helped me dress better, he took me to museums, he wanted to make me over, he did to some extent, and I was grateful, and then he left when he realized I didn't buy his lies. I was bored with his lies. He knew it. He told me he was upset I didn't believe him all the time. It was very sad. Also, he had some bizarro mechanical ticks, which made me think there was something more that made him socio-like.

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  44. Oh yes, one other thing. He was caught cheating. He said his mistake was not that he lied about it, his mistake was that he got caught. He blamed me for that. He said that if I had only believed him we would be together. How true that statement was! He was wildly entertaining and funny as hell. He was a master.

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  45. "Also, he had some bizarro mechanical ticks, which made me think there was something more that made him socio-like."

    Correct. You know sociopaths are derived from killer robots, right?

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  46. Notable said:
    Regret is Worthless...

    Every misstep leads to a new path

    Every cut, bruise and break heals to toughen

    Every failure helps you find a new victory

    Every friend lost is an enemy known

    Every second ill spent is a lesson learned

    Only Death is true failure, and I doubt my corpse will care.

    --------------------------
    Yes.
    February 17, 2011 8:19 PM

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  47. I don't think he was a killer. He was brought up "right" He he he

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  48. @notme, thank you for the information. While you don't have the condition I was particularly looking for it was none the less interesting.
    @Thenotablepath, Interesting. I'm assuming you are a S. You also have brought up something that I am interested in. How strong is your will to live? I ask simply because if something threatens or endangers my life I can't stop until that thing is removed. This also relates to things that endanger the betterment of my life.
    @Anonymous, All of that sounds very typical of an S. Though I know you won't be able to answer this it is none the less something I want to get your opinion on. You said he tended like girls he could easily manipulate. I am much the opposite in this accord. I tend to like stark raving bitches for lack of a better term. Also, I like women who have strength of will and confidence. Why you might ask when my goal is to dominate and control. Simply they provide a better challenge. When someone is already buckling under pressure applying a little more is hardly a hard thing to do. However, the high and mighty have a much longer and more painful drop. Nothing gives me more pleasure then for a woman to cry for me. As far as the cheating thing goes I've only ever used that to hurt my significant other. I think that however is because of another disorder(If one would call it that).

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  49. That's a rather foolish question, Kesu. What idiot is at rest when a mortal threat is afoot?

    My will to live, hmm...

    I have come to the mature realization that I have one life to live, and that there are many ways to die, yet I made it this far. I have no illusions of reaching old age, or even another year for that matter. I will die some day.

    Yet I do no seek enlightenment, or rest for a weary soul, for there is no rest for the wicked, a price I pay with interest.

    I just live life now, and I can't be more content. To live and die in the moment was what nature intended. Not some fool-hearty plan for longevity. That's why our bodies have expiration dates.

    I fully intend to consume its contents before that day comes.

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  50. so Note if one day you stop showing up here we'll know what's happened to you...
    We should all set up a reunion for 30 years time to see who's still alive and kicking...
    ;)

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  51. @ThenotablePath Interesting. So would you be one to say that when death comes it comes? OR more to say I'll fight it to the bitter end. From what you have said so far I'd say you would be inclined to say the first. I must also say that you never directly answered my question. So I'll simply restate it in another form. Do you care if you live or die?

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  52. There is nothing that I would not defile to keep myself alive. No line I would not cross. Would I fight for my life to the bitter end? If I had it my way, I would come back after the fact, until my bones were ground to dust.

    I do not care about my death, for it is a secret hidden until too late. But my life? I would do anything to keep it.

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  53. Kesu
    Yes, I stand corrected. He did not actually say that he liked weak women. Now that I think about it, knowing who his other exes are, he actually has dated some pretty strong women.
    When I called him out on his bad behavior, he said it made for a good relationship. I don't think I was a stark raving bitch, though. I think I was reacting to a hostile person. He respected me as a good defender and a worthy opponent. He was intimidated by me AND he wanted to destroy me. Look I stuck around. It isn't like I didn't sense he was predatory the moment I met him. I had my share of fun with him, too. I love a challenge. As for the cheating, to this day, I actually won't ever know if it was even true. He also had once told me that he had previously faked cheating because he thought his girlfriend was doing the same. I will never know exactly what happened. It all seemed rather planned. I knew it would end exactly the way it did. He practically told me. Self-fulfilling prophecies everywhere in sight on both our parts.

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  54. Kesu said: Nothing gives me more pleasure then for a woman to cry for me. As far as the cheating thing goes I've only ever used that to hurt my significant other. I think that however is because of another disorder(If one would call it that).

    Kesu, do you mind me asking what that other disorder is?

    February 17, 2011 10:40 PM

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  55. @TheNotablePath That is very very interesting. If you don't mind me saying but this is almost the exact opposite of the previous statement. There seems to be a nonchalant tone in your previous statement. Particular with the statements about how your death was both inevitable and also soon coming. I would say along these lines if you were to get something like cancer you would certainly take all the weed and morphine you could take but not partake of any of the procedures that could possibly save your life. Rather you would focus more on enjoying every visceral experience you could come across.
    How ever in the second post you seem almost fierce about maintaining your life. As if in the same situation you would take every treatment with a relentless drive to self preserve. Sparing no expense to do it.

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  56. I can't help the fact that you're the fool who cannot understand the difference between the will to live and the acceptance of the inevitability of death.

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  57. I can relate to this. My behavior can be extremely self-destructive and at the same time incredibly self preserving. I don't get it either. I don't have a death wish, but I have been told that I live on the edge.
    As many times as I do the math, I can't help myself from going down the
    risky path. It really is a distraction. And I don't think it is a matter of being bored.

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  58. I am Bella, by the way. (Most of the anons above.) It is nice to communicate here. Thank you for the blog

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  59. @TheNotablePath If I have struck a nerve understand that it was not my intention. Simply realize that I come at this as an exploratory experience. In saying this also take into account that which I am looking into is notorious for it secrecy and ability to produce "illusion". S's as we are we tend to delight in misleading others and moving them to our whims. Making them believe what we want. Why would I think this dance is anything more then two wolves circling each other making false opening? In saying this though know that I have no reason to believe that you have been anything but the utmost honest with me. Also, I never said I didn't understand. I merely remarked that the change in tone was interesting.

    @anonymous, I must say that I am very much enjoying our current conversation and the path with which it is heading. I think it could be beneficial to the both of us. However, I do not wish to go into personal matters over an open forum. So if you wish an answer to this question and the ones that I am sure inevitable follow I suggest we move this conversation to a less public form of communication. If you have want of this too then may I suggest creating an e-mail/IM account especially for this exchange. While I have come here honestly and openly about what I am. I still am what I am.

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  60. This is the dumbest conversation I have heard on here. Only pathetic people wont fight for their lives tooth and nail. So what? Have you ever fought for your life tooth and nail by the way? It doesn't seem like it since all your babble is intellectual theories with no reality within it.
    Who cares about 'what you would do". What have you done, besides waste our time on conceptualising what you would do in desperate scenarios and the fact that you like women that are controlling. Save the bullocks robot man

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  61. Bride of FrankensteinFebruary 18, 2011 at 1:41 AM

    I eat robot men for breakfast. Gimee Gimee

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  62. Kesu,

    A private email address? Gladly. But please explain how I would get this to you if not to announce it over this forum.

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  63. @Ukan How have I wasted your time? No one told you to read what I wrote. In fact even if they did I highly doubt that you would feel compelled to do so.

    Whats wrong with asking questions? I've been nothing but forward with my intentions. I'm interested in this condition.

    If I say yes will you be impressed? If I say no will you be happy? If I lied in either direction would you be able to tell the difference? Would it matter? Well the fact of the matter is I am not here for you. I am here for me.

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  64. That's where your wrong, kesu. I will show you in days to come.

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  65. @anonymous, Here. kesu0111@yahoo.com This is where I will stop for the day. I hope we can pick this up again soon.

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  66. It's not suprising knowing that I'm the only one here who doesn't smoke and barely drinks.

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  67. ANd, time now is...

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  68. Kesu,
    I had the most fun ever on this blog reading your stuff. Why take your discussion elsewhere and limit your learning to a select few who goes there? You need some distracting stupid response as much as acceptance to learn more about yourself.

    Notable Path clearly has issues when confronted with his weaknesses. To see how he switched to calling you fool above was hilarious. Your examples on how to deal with cancer were extremely intelligent, indeed showing the duality of decision making. Is it quality of life or is it every effort to make it last longer. Do I want no pain and happiness in whatever time I left when with cancer or do I want to be an experimental toy and spend the rest of my days under the care of some God-playing doctor? And, why do you think choosing the former does not mean that I want to 'live' is not the case when I decide I won't be in a hospital bed in the remainder of my time?

    And, UKan, when it is an intellectual/theoretical discussion, just SHUT the FUCK UP, and wait. When it's quiet a bit, go ahead and restart telling us how you indulge in low intelligence raw stuff, we like hearing that too because it's authentic-sounding.

    Kesu, open yourself up, don't hide in that yahoo account with just a few.

    And, by the way, how did you come up with the name Kesu?

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  69. There are other blogs for that kind of nonsense.

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  70. I would rather be notorious than famous, when you are famous people have it in their heads that somehow they can relate to you.

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  71. Kesu. This is some boring shit. Why don't you tell us about things that you've done instead of what you think or feel about whatever. That's always more interesting.

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  72. Kesu. This is some boring shit. Why don't you tell us about things that you've done instead of what you think and feel about whatever. That's always more interesting.

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  73. Nuos:

    "If the motives behind power is known, would there be any reason not to fear or resent it?"

    That is not the point here. This is about taking sides based not upon who actually makes more sense, but on emotionally instilled preferences in the wide population.

    What the interviewed person says rings so very true to me, I don't have count on how many times I've tried to get through with ideas or knowledge that could help a smaller or larger group of people - upon whom I was dependent - get along and gain the advantage, but ended up with having them either not listening to me (because what I said didn't fit their empathic pattern), or have them turn on me (because what I said didn't fit their empathic pattern).


    M.E.,

    there's no doubt partial truth in what you propose: People hate sociopathic/psychopathic people because they easier gain power in many respects, not least in everyday interactions with normal people...

    That is, in relationships: How often are 'we' not being set out as the bad guy, the one who is in complete fault, even as non-human!

    And that's just an example.

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  74. I think M.E.'s stance reflects 2nd level processing. The wider population as you described are usually compliant and trusting of "power" or leaders at first until shown otherwise.

    I think this debate is more about who deserves the "victim" label more, to which the spoils of justice should be awarded to. Unfortunately because it is second level processing, it will always be a moot point even if it is unjustified. How were the emotional preferences instilled in the first place?

    Although I do emphatize with your experience of wanting to share your good ideas with a non receptive group however I wonder if that is more a question of "trust" rather than the innate sense or wisdom of the idea.

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  75. On the other hand it is a fact that people in large numbers have a high degree of malleability to emotionally charged situations.

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  76. I think the knee jerk reaction of hating sociopaths comes from their lack of empathy, not their relative power.

    A lack of empathy is such a repugnant idea for someone who has empathy. That makes sociopaths instantly unfavorable. Kind of like the way an atheist is perceived by a devout Christian as totally potential for all types of atrocities and horrific acts.

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