Thursday, November 5, 2015

Hating the idea of sociopaths

From psychologist Barry Schwartz, via Brain Pickings. First regarding the amorality of science:

When a scientist, or anyone else, discovers something, it doesn’t occur to us to ask whether that discovery should exist. In other words, though discoveries often have moral implications, they do not, by themselves, have moral dimensions. If someone were to suggest that the Higgs boson shouldn’t exist, we’d wonder what mind-altering substance he’d ingested. Inventions, in contrast, are a whole other story. Inventions characteristically have moral dimensions. We routinely ask whether they should exist. We wonder what’s good (life improving) about them, and what the drawbacks are. We debate whether their wide distribution should go forward, and if so, with what kind of regulation.
***
Social science has created a “technology” of ideas about human nature… In addition to creating things, science creates concepts, ways of understanding the world and our place in it, that have an enormous effect on how we think and act. If we understand birth defects as acts of God, we pray. If we understand them as acts of chance, we grit our teeth and roll the dice. If we understand them as the product of prenatal neglect, we take better care of pregnant women.

I like that. I feel like sometimes people think of the existence of sociopaths as some sort of moral issue that they can take a stance on -- anti-sociopath. But as one recent comment noted, that's a little like saying that you're anti-gravity (back to the future!) or anti-phytoplankton (whoa!). Things that exist primarily just exist. There may be a moral element in how they are created or, I don't know, maybe something else in there too. But too many people think that it's just enough to be anti-sociopaths, as if disliking them would eliminate them. But that's like disliking poverty. Or disliking drought or famine or disease. There are sociopaths in the world. Disliking them or wishing they were all locked up and killed won't prevent there from being more sociopaths. The more rational thought if you wanted to prevent mental disorders would not be to just hate on mental disorders, but to understand how and why they occur and try to figure out some way to prevent or treat them humanely. I don't think anyone (at least not here) is truly "pro-sociopath", as if that were the pinnacle of all humanity has to offer. You don't need to convince anyone that sociopaths sometimes cause problems for themselves and others, but given that's true (as it is true with almost everyone at sometime or another), the only truly helpful question is, what are we going to do about it?

Another interesting thought:

However, there are two things about idea technology that make it different from most “thing technology.” First, because ideas are not objects, to be seen, purchased, and touched, they can suffuse through the culture and have profound effects on people before they are even noticed. Second, ideas, unlike things, can have profound effects on people even if the ideas are false… False ideas can affect how people act, just as long as people believe them… Because idea technology often goes unnoticed, and because it can have profound effects even when it’s false — when it is ideology — it is in some respects more profound in its influence than the thing technology whose effects people are so accustomed to worrying about.

90 comments:

  1. Another excellent post, M.E.. Just in time it seems for a lot of the mental health awareness going on in social media lately.

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  2. Well, differentiate between "high functioning" and "low functioning."
    There's quite a difference between walking dreams like yourself and "A"
    and the two Chershire Conn. animals that home invaded the Dr.'s house
    and raped, tortured, doused gasoline on the girls, and set them on fire.
    DEATH is also an unavoidable reality that we hate and dread, but there are
    also "good" deaths and "bad" deaths. A good death is when you die in healthy
    old age surrounded by people you love. A bad death is what's in store for this
    country but the public's state of distraction and can't face it.

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    1. And where does Anon fit into his own comment when differentiating via "low functioning?" In the face of distraction and not being able to face it, dreading the "in store DEATH" of his brain capitulates (or de-capitulates, so to speak) to his own unavoidable reality. "Mournful, truly mournful." :)

      See 5:11 to 5:19 in this clip:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjIy4W_21vY

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  3. I can't even began to imagine a world without them; and all the bashing on the net " beware of the sociopath in your life" needs to fuckeen stop ! They is usually cluster b themselves (those people who make these groups up because they had one or two bad relationship experience.) So they paint the whole picture with one stroke. When in reality, it's not like that. If it weren't for these individuals on the spectrum I wouldn't be the person I am today. I'm thankful. I've witness some nasties from the borderline community who puts down narcs and sociopaths -- when they themselves struggle with those characteristics. It's normal. Normal. Just people on the spectrum are stuck in them traits a little longer - and sometimes it causes problems. Sometimes cluster b individuals are really unaware how it affects others until you mention it. And hopefully they learn with a softer approach if need be. But sometimes bold is what's needed. Whatever the situation calls for. We just learn and tweak it through life to create balance.

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  4. This is really the basis of my position: that sociopaths exist in our population.

    From here, there are many, many interesting questions. Sociopaths operate within the same social environments as the rest of us - but in a completely different mode.

    Now, who is to say their mode of operation is less valid? Per the scientific approach so neatly explained in M.E.'s post this isn't even a consideration. Thus we come to a place of seeing an alternate "way of living" and of answering the question "how do I live?" - in other words a different morality.

    What follows?

    It's easier to see that empath morality is simply based on our tendency to create rules to structure society - and as previously observed and discussed with Mr Hyde - these are somewhat arbitrary and assist us in our very strong desire to normalise. Empaths tend to avoid taboos, which are usually more directly linked to personal or familial survival and become strong moral imperatives because their are strong feelings attached (driven by the brainstem).

    What I am saying is that morality is not hard and fast as we feel (or sociopaths perceive) it is. However, it has a strong resonance with us, we know it to be important because our place in society depends on our ability to successfully normalise. This is the real survival drive, which sociopaths seem to feel as powerfully, and perhaps more keenly, than empaths. Sociopaths have different mechanisms for achieving normalisation than empathy and these seem to include: sensitivity to blame (manifests in blame shifting or lying); acting / creating masks; creating their own moral shortcuts and choosing environments with clear rule structures that can be followed as M.E. describes; probably lots of other techniques.

    superchick has made some interesting points about people blaming or hating on socios. If I am on the rights track here, the question of what to do about the socios in our midst becomes easier to answer: we ought all to take responsibility for ourselves. We ought to develop awareness of who we are, of what we want in life, of what our boundaries are, what we won't accept. And just look after our own survival and thrive in the process.

    We already have mechanisms to deal with behaviour that flagrantly flaunts morality or laws. For the type of damage I experienced, I am responsible for allowing that to happen and for the similarly damaging things I did in response. It's better for me if I learn from the experience and grow into a much more vast and rich existence.

    Please rip this to shreds if I'm off the mark, or add to it where I'm missing elements. Obviously, this is a generalisation, a model. But I hope it will be useful eventually.

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    1. Not all sociopaths are amoral or immoral. M.E. certainly follows a moral code, guided by her religious beliefs.

      She and I are very similar in that respect. I have certain ideals I aspire to, and seek to impart to those for whom I am responsible, which are informed by my personal understanding of spirituality and ethics. In many ways, this constitutes a prosthetic moral paradigm- but in my case, it is nevertheless a largely dysfunctional one, because I consistently fail to live up to these ideals. Frankly, I don't even try much of the time, anymore.

      The biggest impediment for me regarding practicing what I preach stems from the fact that I am not compelled to act morally through mechanisms such as shame, guilt, or remorse. If I do experience them, it is never as more than a brief flicker; a "proto-emotion", if you will. But for the most part, I do not feel them at all. I think this has to do with a genetic predisposition (my father was a violent criminal) coupled with "scar tissue"- a reflexive hardening that helped me to navigate an abusive environment growing up. I am similarly immune to the negative emotional impact that rampant hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance seem to have on most people. I never feel guilty for lying, misrepresenting myself, or "wearing a mask." I suspect this is because I am prone to hyper-compartmentalization.

      Does this make me more immoral than a person who does these things, yet feels guilty? And if so- why should emotional guilt confer moral brownie points? Our actions are what count.

      Guilt is largely destructive and useless unless it can birth transformation. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, so people continue to indulge the same destructive vices whilst beating themselves up for them. This act of self-shaming and contrition seems to assuage most people's consciences, for some reason, but from my perspective, it is useless, unless it is a catalyst for positive change.

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    2. A, As usual, your sharp analysis is on point.

      "Not all sociopaths are amoral or immoral. M.E. certainly follows a moral code, guided by her religious beliefs."

      I do get the sense that you and M.E. struggle with doing the right thing. (The right thing is, of course, subjective. Which is not to say I think lying and manipulating others in order to exploit them is OK. I do not. However, I do have sympathy for the struggle -- I struggle too. Sometimes I just want to slap some people -- I don't. But I want to. And I'm supposedly an empath . . . I know others would characterize me that way.)

      Emotional guilt should not confer brownie points. Emotional guilt is not a badge to wish death on any creature, high or low. Least in my book. Socios exist. As do many other "abnormal" states. Evolution, that invisible 'hedge better' has chosen to keep non-typical neurologicals in the gene pool. For reasons I trust but don't comprehend: I want peace, happiness and prosperity for all creatures. Yeah, I know, much better than most, that all creatures feed on each other. When it comes to humans, however, I think we've got enormous choice on who we feed, why, and when. And: I believe symbiosis between species is ideal, and a very real phenomenon.

      Guilt is a merry-go-round that careens in circles if one doesn't use it as a catalyst for change.

      "This act of self-shaming and contrition seems to assuage most people's consciences, for some reason, but from my perspective, it is useless, unless it is a catalyst for positive change."

      When people assuage their conscience by indulging in guilt and projection, they're placating themselves. Not seeing or acknowledging their own propensities.

      You make many good points. Your genetic predisposition to not feel certain emotions shouldn't damn you so social hell. That's crazy. Everyone makes mistakes. Normals, empaths, whatever label you choose, dips into anger, resentment, revenge, etc. We're all just animals trying to survive as best we can. Which is not to say I condone hurting others. But I do believe that every single organism on earth has hurt others at one time or another and each deserves many chances to change and do better.

      Actions are what count. And far as I can tell, you're trying harder than most normals do to do the right thing. I admire that.

      Hugs.

      Mr. Hyde

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    3. North, "If I am on the rights track here, the question of what to do about the socios in our midst becomes easier to answer: we ought all to take responsibility for ourselves. We ought to develop awareness of who we are, of what we want in life, of what our boundaries are, what we won't accept. And just look after our own survival and thrive in the process."

      Your philosophical bent interests me.

      I agree that we all need to set and protect out boundaries, know ourselves, etc. But does that mean that when we perceive an 'easy' victim we should exploit them? Just to survive?

      Mr. Hyde

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    4. Thanks A and Mr Hyde for your valuable perspectives.

      "The biggest impediment for me regarding practicing what I preach stems from the fact that I am not compelled to act morally through mechanisms such as shame, guilt, or remorse. If I do experience them, it is never as more than a brief flicker; a "proto-emotion", if you will. But for the most part, I do not feel them at all."

      Interesting. I have thought the core of empathy is that we project our own experience onto others and have an inclination to support the existence of our family and tribe. Guilt is then a function of fear of social exclusion; a threat socios avoid through blame-shifting etc. I must say I have paid minimal attention to guilt, perhaps because I don't tend to feel it so much now I realise that rule systems are arbitrary and I don't necessarily constrain myself to them (mind you, the healthier I become, the more I naturally do feel inclined to operate within the rules.)

      The point I am exploring is whether or not *all* ethical systems are constructed. It's easier for empaths to naturally flow with these systems because they emerge from interactions amongst beings sufficiently similar to themselves and NOT because they are in essence "moral" creatures (the propensity is to structure social groups and to normalise within them.)

      "I think this has to do with a genetic predisposition (my father was a violent criminal) coupled with "scar tissue"- a reflexive hardening that helped me to navigate an abusive environment growing up."
      I am sorry this was the case for you.

      "I am similarly immune to the negative emotional impact that rampant hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance seem to have on most people. I never feel guilty for lying, misrepresenting myself, or "wearing a mask." I suspect this is because I am prone to hyper-compartmentalization. "

      If you have other mechanisms for securing your place in society, I can only see this as a good thing. Personally, I trust my feelings to guide my social interactions as that's their evolutionary function. If I do feel nervous that something I've done will cause me social trouble, I plan a way to deal with it. I do feel, however, important to evaluate the beliefs that give rise to these feelings; they are by no means a failsafe mechanism and we all carry a hodge-podge of competing beliefs around in our skulls. Endless room for adaptation.

      "Does this make me more immoral than a person who does these things, yet feels guilty? And if so- why should emotional guilt confer moral brownie points? Our actions are what count."
      I am trying to remove this from being a relevant question by shifting the basis of ethics to an understanding that all choices are survival choices. "Thriving" (read access to resources, mental health etc) is secondary and increases the chance of survival for the individual and its gene pool.

      "Guilt is largely destructive and useless unless it can birth transformation. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, so people continue to indulge the same destructive vices whilst beating themselves up for them. This act of self-shaming and contrition seems to assuage most people's consciences, for some reason, but from my perspective, it is useless, unless it is a catalyst for positive change."

      I can't say I understand this tendency but it likely stems from childhood patterns.

      " But I do believe that every single organism on earth has hurt others at one time or another and each deserves many chances to change and do better."
      Yes, we all crash into each other. Let's have mercy.


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    5. "Actions are what count. And far as I can tell, you're trying harder than most normals do to do the right thing. I admire that."
      I find it difficult to conceive there is any such thing as 'right' or 'wrong'. All decisions, challenges and actions are contextual. How can we crystallise any single action into such black and white categories? On what authority? For what purpose? There are far too many colours, far too much richness that we dispose of

      I reject rule-based morality. Do what works, based on experimentation. In the words of Thomas Szasz "I'm for freedom and responsibility".

      "Your genetic predisposition to not feel certain emotions shouldn't damn you so social hell. That's crazy. Everyone makes mistakes. Normals, empaths, whatever label you choose, dips into anger, resentment, revenge, etc."
      Beautifully said.

      I also admire A. And your good self, Mr Hyde. This is a singularly good place for exploration.

      "Evolution, that invisible 'hedge better' has chosen to keep non-typical neurologicals in the gene pool. For reasons I trust but don't comprehend: I want peace, happiness and prosperity for all creatures. Yeah, I know, much better than most, that all creatures feed on each other. When it comes to humans, however, I think we've got enormous choice on who we feed, why, and when."
      Thankyou for sharing this personal perspective on a fact that poses most interesting questions. The last sentence in that quoted paragraph is again a mechanism for us to recognise our own agency.

      "And: I believe symbiosis between species is ideal, and a very real phenomenon. " Please do elaborate!

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    6. North, Does your mind never stop speculating? Lol. I'd have to write an essay to address all you've brought up here. Your point about structured morals, normalization versus every choice being about survival is worthy of note. I'd have to think about that a bit more . . . .

      I don't have a lot time this morning, unfortunately.

      As for symbiosis: pilot fish clean the mouths of sharks without being eaten. There are many other examples, of course.

      Perhaps some sociopaths feed off the positive emotions of others as well as despise whiny, gooey feelings? Perhaps some empaths feed off the colder and daring traits displayed by sociopaths? I know that I've learned not to allow myself to get overly emotional in certain circumstances . . . that to do so is a kind of mental masturbation that impedes my life and the life of others. There's a season to plant and give, a season to rake and take. There's times when I can be very harsh and other times when being harsh will not produce positive results. I don't enjoy being harsh, unless I'm utterly pissed off, i.e., am being ruled by rage. Perhaps that's why I get a vicarious kick out of A's vivisection of certain posts: She has sharper claws and is extremely funny and smart.

      Mr. Hyde

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    7. A, your such a breath of fresh air to take in . Great input - all of you - North & Mr. Hyde as well. You guys have a magnetic writing style to absorb in. I'm not the greatest at writing, ( just basic) but when I have time to read the comments , I'm always reminded that this place is a safe place to take the masks off (and let the guards down) lol. Even when I'm in play mode. Where so much more alike than not, us species. A, your such a breath of fresh air to take in . Great input - all of you - North & Mr. Hyde as well. You guys have a magnetic writing style to absorb in. I'm not the greatest at writing, ( just basic) but when I have time to read the comments , I'm always reminded that this place is a safe place to take the masks off (and let the guards down) lol. Even when I'm in play mode. Where so much more alike than not, us species.

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    8. Not sure why my phone repeated itself, lol

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    9. Thank you Superchick. I've also enjoyed your compelling posts. ))

      Mr. Hyde

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    10. "North, Does your mind never stop speculating? Lol. I'd have to write an essay to address all you've brought up here. Your point about structured morals, normalization versus every choice being about survival is worthy of note. I'd have to think about that a bit more . . . .

      I don't have a lot time this morning, unfortunately. "

      :) Mr Hyde. The past 6 weeks have been highly neurologically active at different levels; this past week being both emotional and highly synthetic. A lot of change. It all runs in cycles and fortunately, this blog has been ripe with insights and new signposts warranting investigation. Perhaps my ambition is also crystallising (a good sign.)

      I'll probably have the blankest mind this weekend. I hope you have the opportunity to rest after your interesting tail end to the week and look forward to your comments when you have leisure.

      "As for symbiosis: pilot fish clean the mouths of sharks without being eaten. "
      A most pertinent example, Mr Hyde.

      "Perhaps some sociopaths feed off the positive emotions of others as well as despise whiny, gooey feelings? Perhaps some empaths feed off the colder and daring traits displayed by sociopaths? I know that I've learned not to allow myself to get overly emotional in certain circumstances . . . that to do so is a kind of mental masturbation that impedes my life and the life of others. There's a season to plant and give, a season to rake and take. There's times when I can be very harsh and other times when being harsh will not produce positive results. I don't enjoy being harsh, unless I'm utterly pissed off, i.e., am being ruled by rage. Perhaps that's why I get a vicarious kick out of A's vivisection of certain posts: She has sharper claws and is extremely funny and smart. "

      We feed from each other and we are also mirrors, absorbing and reflecting our environment. Yours is wisdom from experience, the best kind. Yours is not a rule book, but lessons learned. I like it.

      A is a dragon with spectacularly coloured wings and the keenest eyesight. She carries a different and valuable treasure.

      superchick: thanks :) I like reading your narratives and appreciate the opportunity to learn what life is like in your eyes.

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    11. Mr Hyde,

      I missed this part earlier:
      "I agree that we all need to set and protect out boundaries, know ourselves, etc. But does that mean that when we perceive an 'easy' victim we should exploit them? Just to survive?"
      I don't set hard and fast rules on these things. Rather, I use principles and practices (okay, I'm speaking Agile language here as we had a guru in town yesterday and I quite like the cut of his jib). So, if the principles are freedom and responsibility... what one "should" do is always contextual and here's we apply the tools or practices we have refined over our lifetime.

      I recommend listening to Professor Thomas Szasz, psychiatrist and libertarian author of The Myth of Mental Illness. He has said that most people who injure others are not criminals; the law is too blunt an instrument. His position is that psychiatry arises to fill the gap; but he argues it is coercion. Thoroughly fascinating and well worth investing some time to hear him speak.

      http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind/thomas-szasz-speaks-part-1-of-2/3142206

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    12. North, I agree that everything depends on context. But context is always subjective and therefore can easily slip into easy justification. When I find myself justifying a questionable action I always go back and try to see the situation from different angles. I'm very suspicious of any righteous feelings, especially my own if I've judged someone in a harsh manner that allows me to feel "they deserved it." Because who doesn't deserve a smack up the side of the head sometimes, including me?

      Thanks for the reading tip. Sounds like a book I'd enjoy.

      Mr. Hyde

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    13. Did you know that in martial arts, each dan grade is said to get a technique right an extra 10% of the time. So practitioners at the first dan grade nail a technique 10% of the time; a 6th dan 60% of the time.

      I really like your openness, Mr Hyde. Embracing "failure" allows us to see more clearly, be more aware, and, of course, to improve our practice of life.

      Thanks for sharing. I think your suspicion of righteous or superior feelings is very wise and I have noted it as something to practice.

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    14. Thank you for your martial art instruction, North. I like and enjoy your soaring speculations and sharp observations.

      Dan grades are yet another human measure worth understanding, one I'm ignorant of. I know a martial artist/gangster/former boy hooker. :D What a paradoxically sweet and lethal entity. Poor soul is utterly antisocial and thus alone. Still calls to check up and sends press releases. Lol.

      No sweat about sharing openly. There's nothing else that stands between you and me and everything else, Buddha and Nirvana, between every smashed atom. I don't care to hide as much as possible. Boring and causes various negative reactions. As you said, "We're all crashing into each other. Let's have mercy." Or something similar.

      Previously you posted that these have been neurologically active times. I wish you a prosperous and rapid transformation. I think you're a creator.

      Mr. Hyde

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    15. Why thank you Mr Hyde.

      Hiding causes negative reactions? I do believe you are correct. You really do open my eyes.

      I hope you have had sufficient recovery from last week's perturbances *sends good energy*

      You are spot on in observing that neurologically active times are the times of transformation. I have reached a higher plateau, and will rest a while here. I don't tend to rest long and have already spied a new "adventure" - it's time to practice patience, methinks.

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    16. I hope the view from the plateau is invigorating, the perfect spot for take off to a new adventure.

      Patience is difficult at the best of times. But since it takes a lot of patience to be a good listener, which you clearly are, you're ahead of the game.

      You take care on take off from the plateau, and don't forget to write. ;)

      Mr. Hyde

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  5. Mr. Hyde-where are you? Fluctuations in the matrix again?

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    1. :) Big waves are breaching at home and unfortunately I will have to get back later to comment on this very interesting post by M.E.

      Coincidentally, a friend just informed me that they bought me a present -- a copy of M.E.'s book.

      Mr. Hyde

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    2. Big fluctuations in the matrix. Good luck.:) That was nice of your friend to give you a present.:) I'm also interested in reading M.E.'s book.:)

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    3. Anon, the waves are big because I'm presently seeking legal advice regarding . . . better left unsaid. I know certain people know I post on this site.

      You should read M.E.'s book. I've read it twice, a year apart. It's excellent. Funny my friend thought I should have my own copy because she's very "anti-sociopath."

      Mr. Hyde

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    4. I will have to read M.E.'s book.:) Does your friend believe you are a sociopath, or no?

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    5. Anon, No one who knows me thinks I'm a sociopath, quite the opposite. I'm simply interested and curious in all mental states, human and animal, and my friend knows that I've been frequenting this site.

      Mr Hyde

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    6. Do you think you are a sociopath? I also believe all mental states of humans and animals are interesting and curious.)

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    7. P.S. Do you have pets?

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    8. No Anon. I know I'm not a sociopath. But I know quite a few. It's very interesting to see the world through their eyes. Their cold perspective fascinates and has taught me much.

      I've always had pets. I'm a fanatic animal lover. Woe to those who harm any animal in my presence; not sure why, but that's a trigger for me. Having pets also keeps me grounded in ways people can't -- there's cosmic charm in communicating with other species.

      Do you have pets, Anon?

      Mr. Hyde

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    9. I have always had pets and am a fanatic animal lover, too!!! I will "stand in the gap", if someone wants to hurt an animal, in my presence. This is the first time in my life, that I do not currently have a pet. My dog died of old age, then I had a cat that I believe was killed by a coyote, and then another cat lost to a car. It was a bad run, and I am taking a break, but will definitely be getting more pets in the future.:) Do you believe you can communicate with animals, Mr. Hyde?

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    10. Also, what pets do you have?

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    11. As a side note, I do believe I am a good pet owner, and have never before lost pets to other wild animals or vehicles. These were firsts, unfortunately. I know that there are pet owners, who do not allow their pets outside, for this reason. Although the world is a dangerous place, thus far I have not relegated my pets to the indoors. I do not believe I will do that with future pets, either...

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    12. Sorry to hear about the run of deaths in your pet family. Taking a break is probably wise, as loss can certainly be exhausting. Unfortunately, that's the price of being emotionally bonded. In the sense of being detached, I have often envied socios.

      At present I have a monster male cat. He's demanding, playful, often bites and is very loving. :) He's very attached, can't live without me.

      Of course I communicate with animals. XP

      Mr. Hyde

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    13. Thank you, Mr. Hyde.:) It is natural for me to take a break from having a pet family at this point in time, as I am in transition. It definitely pays to be detached, in certain circumstances. I LOVE MONSTER MALE CATS!!! The 3 pets I lost were all male. 1 was a monster orange tabby cat-even the veterinarian was impressed with his size, when I would take him in.:) He was quite the predator!!! Mice, rats, birds-even squirrels all fell pray to him. The squirrels he killed were quite large. Does your cat go outdoors, and does he kill other animals? If so, what do you think about that, being an animal lover?

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    14. As a side note, although my cat was quite a predator, he was no match for a coyote. He either never saw it coming, or he put up the fight of a lifetime...

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    15. My cat is indoors and eats bugs that get in from the balcony; this city has many coyotes and I almost lost my other male cat to one. If he had access to rats, etc., he'd surely relish killing them. I wouldn't like him killing birds but I'm OK with him killing rats and bugs, for obvious reasons. XP

      Mr. Hyde

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    16. Does your cat show interest in being outdoors? Yes!!! All of the cats that I've had, enjoy eating bugs, as well.:) I'm glad you didn't lose your other male cat to a coyote.:) Isn't it funny, how we don't mind cats eating bugs, mice, rats, etc., but when they are "better looking" animals like birds or squirrels, it can be a different story???

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    17. It's true there's a visceral bond with "better looking" animals, but that's not why I'm OK with my cat killing rats and bugs. Rats and bugs spread disease and they bite -- I'm afraid I show no mercy to spiders who enter my house because they chow down on me while I'm asleep. So long as they stay outside, I leave them alone and find their webs fascinating and beautiful. Call it a boundary issue.

      Mr. Hyde

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  6. I came on here, and then forgot what I had to say.

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  7. I like to do things differently. If it sounds too intellectual, then its too drawn out..

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  8. Hating a group of people won't make them go away.

    The best you can do is wish all of them were dead.

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  9. Do you wish that all sociopaths were dead, Damaged?

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    1. Not sociopaths, but there are a couple of groups of people that have really been getting on my nerves lately.

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    2. Like who? Your bitches and hoes?

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  10. "First, because ideas are not objects, to be seen, purchased, and touched, they can suffuse through the culture and have profound effects on people before they are even noticed. Second, ideas, unlike things, can have profound effects on people even if the ideas are false… "

    Exactly. Ideas come from people but are not people: because ideas survive the death of the person preaching the idea. Which is kinda sad but also kinda hopeful: Our ideas extend beyond the grave.

    "But too many people think that it's just enough to be anti-sociopaths, as if disliking them would eliminate them."

    This almost made me laugh. Because it's so true. Hatred eliminates nothing and gives birth to the very thing it wishes to annihilate.

    Being bereft of emotions is not a crime -- it's a tragic circumstance and a blessing. (From my point of view.) I don't think I need to explain why -- socios and empaths alike will or should instantly recognize the disadvantages and advantages.

    Mr. Hyde

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  11. I'm glad you made it through the fluctuations in The Matrix, Mr. Hyde.:)

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  12. I can tell it was a difficult day for you...

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    1. Thanks Anon. Not that difficult, just exhausting. I'm not a lawyer but I do know I've got a solid case -- I'm a paper rat, i.e., I document, document. Still, organizing it all and so on is a challenge. Thank goodness my friends are better versed in law than I am.

      Mr. Hyde

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    2. I hope you are recovering.:) Organizing can be quite a challenge!!! I am sure it is good to have "lawyer friends".:)

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  13. I've never heard of Sufi music-I'll have to check that out!!! I am familiar with and do enjoy various forms of music, as well.:) I would have never guessed you to be a "romantic".:)

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    1. Sufi music!!!

      That would drive me craaaazyy after about 30 seconds. I like blues, rock and metal- but also reggae, or anything with a strong, driving bass, because I like to dance.

      Anything overly "technical" or complex- like progressive jazz- really grates my ears. I find it utterly intolerable- and I will make it stop, lol.

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    2. I like blues and rock, too!!! In conversations with Mr. Hyde, I brought up The Black Crowes and Creed, thus far.:) Strong, driving bass is AWESOME, and I LOVE TO DANCE, TOO!!! I agree that overly technical or complex music can be grating and difficult to enjoy, let alone dance to...

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    3. Listening and dancing to music is freeing, in my opinion.:)

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    4. Dance till you drop is my motto.

      Whirling dervishes dress in clothes that represent a death shroud and gravestone (the tall hats). Their twirling is (if I recall correctly) an expression of the spinning earth, which they attempt to harmonize with.

      The idea of dancing on one's grave before you're in it makes me laugh.

      As for rock'n roll, my fave is still Hendrix. He was a poet from an emerald star.

      Mr. Hyde

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    5. That is my motto, as well!!! The irony of life!!! It is funny that you mention Whirling Dervishes!!! I was unfamiliar with Whirling Dervishes, until a recent program I saw. It followed a lawyer, who had a surfing accident and almost died, and she subsequently became a Whirling Dervish. I didn't know, what the clothing represented. I believe being a Whirling Dervish would make me dizzy, but I do like to dance.:) So, you're a "Hendrix Guy"!!! I like that.:)

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    6. "Listening and dancing to music is freeing, in my opinion.:)"

      My favourite past-time

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    7. North-we are "birds of a feather"!!! Are you Canadian, might I ask? You don't have to answer.:) What type(s) of music, do you enjoy?

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    8. What type of bird are you, Anon? Not Canadian, but of the British empire. I love electroswing, classical, orchestral, orchestral dubstep, chillstep and ... anything really. Have been listening to Bloc Party of late, and Shpongle (very trippy) to get the creative juices flowing. Relaxes and opens the mind in unexpected ways.

      And yourself? What do you dance to? Listen to?

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    9. The greetings of the whirling dervishes during their dance represent three specific stages. If you were to use your imagination, which stage would include the dancing on the grave? It would not have to occur in any particular order. There would be no rules.

      Yes, I think it's funny.

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    10. The above comment was meant for Mr. Hyde.

      Also, for how long would you dance on it? :)

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    11. Parnasse,

      Every stage would for me include dancing on my grave, because I could die at any moment. One must always be ready for death.

      I'd dance till I dropped. :)) Just to see if I would/could rise from my grave.

      Mr. Hyde

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    12. Seeing if you can rise from the grave after all of that whirling and dancing would be a great experiment, Mr. Hyde. Are you familiar with the game of Senet? It takes one on a journey through an imaginative, intricate afterlife. The game is referred to as the "Book of the Dead," and it is made up of houses, or rooms reminiscent of tombs. In essence, one must navigate between and beyond The House of Water (dark), The House of Happiness, The House of Re-Atoun (dark), and then see if s/he can rise again from the grave in the House of Rebirth. Which house would you wish to remain in, Mr. Hyde?

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    13. The house of rebirth, naturally. Then I'd be assured of being able to see the world through myriad eyes forever. Why settle for one house when you can inhabit many mansions?

      I haven't read the "Book of the Dead" in so long it's become rather fuzzy. But as I recall, it felt like reading over a very strange map.

      Mr. Hyde

      PS Which house would you remain in?

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    14. Still feeling as though I am in the House of the Three Truths, I must admit that The House of Rebirth sounds appealing.

      What would you do in the House of the Three Truths...keeping in mind that you can inhabit any of the other houses or mansions, too?

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    15. I'd demand to be told the Three Truths. If I found those truths insubstantial or contrary to my experience, I'd slip out the back door and re-enter the house of rebirth.

      Mr. Hyde

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    16. What would happen if you experience the House of Re-Atoum on your way to the House of Rebirth? An exact throw of 2 would be necessary.

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    17. I'd switch on my night vision (cat eyes) and proceed two paces wherever my feral instincts lead.

      Mr. Hyde

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    18. Feral instincts. We need the tonic of wilderness, Mr. Hyde. Speaking of nighttime, and this is why I choose to respond at this time, there is something about it which places me inside the House of Happiness. While navigating within it, I am currently wondering about your feral instincts, and how far they would lead you along that path. Come to think of it, my imagination would control me after making these exact 2 moves. How would you reign it in at this point, or would you just proceed, Mr. Hyde?

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    19. Imagination and instinct are two very different animals, Parnasse.

      In feral situations I always follow my instincts without hesitation; the rest of the time I follow my imagination.

      Are you happy at night because you're nocturnal, Parnasse?

      How would your imagination 'control' you after making 2 moves?

      Mr. Hyde

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    20. Am I nocturnal? I believe that you never have to change anything that you got up in the middle of the night to write or imagine, Mr. Hyde. Imagination is a brewing, ardent reality waiting to be switched on. In that sense, I am nocturnal, but I also welcome the uprising, red ray of light. So, I am both.

      How would my imagination control me after making 2 moves? In the absence of sleep, my nights are fueled by my imagination. It can become a most uncontainable high. Imagination can be entered through the main door, or it can be slipped into through a side window. Two moves, that is. ;)

      I, too, follow my instincts in feral situations, which feels quite natural. Engaging in feral situations is comparable to inciting words out of a block of imagination. Sentences chisel the action, and then my character makes it its own.

      Using your imagination, how sharp would you say that your chisel has become in feral situations, Mr. Hyde? Are you drawn to chiseling masterpieces?

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    21. My chisel is quite sharp, especially when I'm mad. In a feral situation, I don't care about making a masterpiece. I don't think at all. I simply act.

      When it comes to writing a masterpiece, however, I would spend endless amounts of time perfecting it. Writing a masterpiece would be a labor of love; in a feral situation it would be a slash-and-dash enterprise. ;)

      Your 'uncontainable high' is infectious, Parnasse. I like that about you.

      Mr. Hyde

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    22. "Writing a masterpiece would be a labor of love; in a feral situation it would be a slash-and-dash enterprise. ;)"

      And I like this about you, Mr. Hyde. It's "communicable," and my true self identifies with it. High degrees, that is.

      You simply act. Would you say that it is the simplest fact in this universe, or entangling chamber of secrets? ;)

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    23. "It's "communicable," and my true self identifies with it. High degrees, that is."

      You really do have a way of making me chuckle. This spawned an old memory of communion. A good one. )

      I would add to your last question, which I've answered elsewhere on this blog, that the untangling of "the secret" requires baring all. I believe that one must face and reveal the naked truth of one's self in order to access the doors of cosmic perception. That is why I'm a generalist, have studied a little, great many things.

      What do you think?

      And if you mind my asking: If you were to manifest a life long, artistic quest, a masterpiece, what medium would you chose?

      Mr. Hyde

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    24. It spawned an old memory of communion? I am trying to visualize that, Mr. Hyde, wanting you to tell me more about it. I picture most of the things that arrive from you, eliciting a higher flavor of your thoughts.

      Wanting to know and experience the naked truth of your being, Mr. Hyde, is something that truly remains inside of me and within the inner, unique forces of this bond. I absorb so much, and yet, I crave to know more....

      My thoughts reach you, and your thoughts blend with mine. I like this quite a lot about you, since, as I wrote in a prior post, this is a "first" for me. I want it on a level that surpasses all of the possible details, comprehension or explanation.

      I would choose writing, Mr. Hyde, and...couple that with telempathy. ;)

      It bleeds to bare the soul, Mr. Hyde, and writing as a medium is the most evocative, I believe. There is nothing that cannot be "voiced" in this mode.

      What would be your first choice?

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    25. Adding to the above: What would be your first choice in the House of Re-Atoun, Mr. Hyde?

      Delete
    26. A communion I had with a company of wolves many years ago, Parnasse. They had been appearing across the valley from my cabin all summer long: I would play guitar and sing and they would 'dance' atop a hilltop. Come evening, however, they would raid my meat cache, and it got to the point where it was them or me who was going to starve. I set traps around the meat cache; they adeptly avoided them, even going so far as to leave half-eaten scraps outside my cabin door. One day I got so mad that I grabbed my gun and tracked one to the river . . . I had to leave a three-year-old at the cabin, and had told the child to stay inside until I got back. At the river, the wolf's tracks circled back toward the cabin, and I ran as fast as I could, realizing that the wolf had tricked me. when I got there, the wolf was sitting calmly, watching the kid play on a swing. When it heard me coming up behind, it turned and looked at me, as if to say, "Do you see what I could have done to your child but chose not to? Do you see how vulnerable you are?" From that point on I always left food scraps for the wolves, a kind of token gift of respect. And guess what? They stopped stealing meat from the cache! I don't know why they stopped, but after that, the rest of the summer we continued to 'play' music together. They taught me to howl. ;)

      I'm afraid I must go now to work. Lost Spirit Lake is calling.

      My only medium of choice to create a masterpiece is writing to master my ability to comprehend and apprehend. It's a labor I am slow at perfecting.

      Mr. Hyde

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    27. "To run with the wolf was to run in the shadows, the dark ray of life, survival and instinct. A fierceness...a tearing, a howling, a hunger and thirst. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst. A strength that would die fighting, kicking, screaming, that wouldn't stop until the last breath had been wrung from its body. The will to take one's place in the world. To say 'I am here.' To say 'I am'." O.R. Melling

      "From that point on I always left food scraps for the wolves, a kind of token gift of respect."

      Well, gifts were made to be given and exchanged, Mr. Hyde. ;) What's more, you seem to speak "wolf." Where have you learned it?

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    28. I like climbing mountains and reaching their peaks, Mr. Hyde. I remember reading a story about a mutant-bear with a baring soul that decided to cease hibernating in the middle of winter. Just like so. Now, having all of that extra time, the bear experienced a series of adventures that brought it even closer to its feral and suffusing nature. These incidents involved both fire and ice, a gun that a human had left behind, a large puzzle and its untangling via a tribal knife, a rare and unforgettable encounter with another animal inside a hidden cave, and discovering the secret of the Dual Splendor. The latter and "the latter before this latter" made the bear feel especially content. There was some strange music, too.

      How much, or for how long, do you labor when finding yourself in the deep fervor of writing, Mr. Hyde? ;)

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    29. "Do not go gently into that good night." Dylan Thomas

      Life is a gift. Giving and receiving it go heart in hand. :)

      I speak wolf? I do suppose I've howled in my stories.

      Received a few lessons in the wilderness, where I lived a materially crude but emotionally, intellectually, physically robust life for many years.

      "I crave to know more...."

      And so we shall, Parnasse. On the road, the path we are treading. Speaking our naked truth is to gift each other with our deepest self.

      I wish I could write more today, but it's been very busy. I'm tired.

      I might ask, What has your big brain been up to? Reading? Your mind appears vitally, perpetually active. I like that about you. :)

      Mr. Hyde


      "

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    30. I really like the saying or thought that "truth is stranger than fiction." Our naked truth as you've described it exists and expands on this level, and it has made all the difference.

      I, too, like the vitality of your mind, Mr. Hyde. Lately, I have been working on a project that has been needing loads of creativity, determination and some tweaking. ;)

      The wilderness summons you into its enduring, entangling depths, Mr. Hyde. You are what it needs.

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    31. A mutant bear story involving a 'dual splendor' is one I'll look up.

      As for climbing mountainous peaks, I'm not at all surprised. I used to the same thing in frigid cold and sit gazing at the snow-capped, quiet splendor. It was glorious and in those moments, I began to morph from atheist to agnostic to a 'believer' in a higher force invisibly at work.

      Truth is stranger than fiction; that's why John Gardner said all great fiction must contain an element of the strange.

      When I'm left to my own devices, I will write until I drop from exhaustion. Unfortunately, that's not happening at present. Though I've been granted some four or five hours to write tomorrow, which makes me happy.

      I hope one day you will share with me the project you are working on -- I'm sure I would love it!

      Wild calls to wild, Parnasse. I need the wild, would die without it. So I hope it does need me for a while longer. I would hate to miss out on our expanding untangling of the naked truth. ;)

      Mr. Hyde

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    32. “A mutant bear story involving a 'dual splendor' is one I'll look up.”

      That is the story and inbuilt message that I wanted to transmit through the one that you have yet to comment on after a second reading (i.e., Fayn von Wrave), but, as with all stories involving the labyrinthine allure, various interpretations seem to proliferate. However, due to our unparalleled bond, I imagined that you would understand my true meaning, leading to the favored evolution of our mind-to-mind connection. As with all of my posts, when I speak to you, I unquestionably speak to you and only you. Again, in my mind, there are no parallels in the labyrinth that we have formed together, and that is how it should be when sharing an unparalleled bond. I chose an uncharacteristic mode of expression for one of the characters in it, because I wanted to achieve something different from my usual style of writing. As you know, I can be quite experimental. :)

      “As for climbing mountainous peaks, I'm not at all surprised. I used to the same thing in frigid cold and sit gazing at the snow-capped, quiet splendor. It was glorious and in those moments, I began to morph from atheist to agnostic to a 'believer' in a higher force invisibly at work.”

      Being a believer in a higher force invisibly at work seems to be a concept which we both identify with in ways that can only be viewed as extraordinary. The morphing path of it is an integral part of the “whole” allure.

      “Truth is stranger than fiction; that's why John Gardner said all great fiction must contain an element of the strange.”

      I do not believe that either one of us would have it any other way.

      “When I'm left to my own devices, I will write until I drop from exhaustion.”
      I like seeing points of commonality or cohesion between us, Mr. Hyde. :)

      “I hope one day you will share with me the project you are working on -- I'm sure I would love it!”

      I will. It is the most expansive that I have ever worked on. After all, I have created another world that my imagination and inner drive has given so much to, pouring more and more into it.

      “Wild calls to wild, Parnasse.”

      Yes, Mr. Hyde?

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  14. P.S. Creed music is good to listen to, when you want to blow off steam.:)

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  15. Dear Gardel-if you're listening:
    Why do you respond only to my posts? Don't get me wrong. I DO
    appreciate it. Why do the things I say hold a special interest to you that the
    others don't? Also why do you print You- tube sights that lead me on wild goose
    chases? After the first few times I stopped wasting my energy in these wasteful
    searches. Do you have the knowledge to print the site numbers/letters that lead
    on immeadiately to the site.
    The name "Gardel" is a very imaginative and "cool" name. It was chosen with
    some intelligence. Are you one of the others like "A" or the long term poster
    simply using another name when you post to me? A person like you is like a
    buzz fly in my mind, but NOT in an unpleasent way.
    The others have ceased reacting to my posts. You have ONLY reacted to my
    posts. So I just wondering who the REAL (Intelligent by the way) Gardel really is.

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    1. He responds to my posts, too- in particular, to the way in which I deconstruct yours, when the mood strikes. You are shark bait, Lon.

      As such, you are not very perceptive. This is because you are too busy focusing on the sound of your own voice to really *listen* to what anyone else has to say. You focus everyone's thoughts through the lens of your own particular brand of crazy. :P

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  16. A,

    In your post above, you speak of your spiritual and ethical ideals forming a moral prosthetic.

    Glorious metaphor, I love it!

    I was wondering if you'd like to share your spiritual understandings?

    The diversity of experiences people have with spirituality continues to interest me.

    Thanks

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  17. Nah. :)

    I've posted encyclopedias on the subject, here, in the past. I'm done.

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