Tuesday, November 6, 2012

Why we need wolves

This was a fascinating NY Times article entitled "Why the Beaver Should Thank the Wolf" that is worth reading in its entirety, but here is the first part:


THIS month, a group of environmental nonprofits said they would challenge the federal government’s removal of Endangered Species Act protections for wolves in Wyoming. Since there are only about 328 wolves in a state with a historic blood thirst for the hides of these top predators, the nonprofits are probably right that lacking protection, Wyoming wolves are toast.

Many Americans, even as they view the extermination of a species as morally anathema, struggle to grasp the tangible effects of the loss of wolves. It turns out that, far from being freeloaders on the top of the food chain, wolves have a powerful effect on the well-being of the ecosystems around them — from the survival of trees and riverbank vegetation to, perhaps surprisingly, the health of the populations of their prey.

An example of this can be found in Wyoming’s Yellowstone National Park, where wolves were virtually wiped out in the 1920s and reintroduced in the ’90s. Since the wolves have come back, scientists have noted an unexpected improvement in many of the park’s degraded stream areas.

Stands of aspen and other native vegetation, once decimated by overgrazing, are now growing up along the banks. This may have something to do with changing fire patterns, but it is also probably because elk and other browsing animals behave differently when wolves are around. Instead of eating greenery down to the soil, they take a bite or two, look up to check for threats, and keep moving. The greenery can grow tall enough to reproduce.

Beavers, despite being on the wolf’s menu, also benefit when their predators are around. The healthy vegetation encouraged by the presence of wolves provides food and shelter to beavers. Beavers in turn go on to create dams that help keep rivers clean and lessen the effects of drought. Beaver activity also spreads a welcome mat for thronging biodiversity. Bugs, amphibians, fish, birds and small mammals find the water around dams to be an ideal habitat.

So the beavers keep the rivers from drying up while, at the same time, healthy vegetation keeps the rivers from flooding, and all this biological interaction helps maintain rich soil that better sequesters carbon — that stuff we want to get out of the atmosphere and back into the ground. In other words, by helping to maintain a healthy ecosystem, wolves are connected to climate change: without them, these landscapes would be more vulnerable to the effects of those big weather events we will increasingly experience as the planet warms.

Scientists call this sequence of impacts down the food chain a “trophic cascade.” The wolf is connected to the elk is connected to the aspen is connected to the beaver. Keeping these connections going ensures healthy, functioning ecosystems, which in turn support human life.


I was reading one of the recent comments: "whist I'm all in favour of integrating such people into society as well as possible, I have serious concerns about situations were sociopaths have this kind of power over others." The thing is that sociopaths have always been a part of society. There is no need to integrate us. We are as integrated as any group can be perhaps, scattered as we are throughout every continent and culture, every religion or political group, every family and tribe. People may wonder what our net effect is on society when you add us all up together. I also wonder that. But I think it's not crazy to suggest that, just like any predator, although we may have a somewhat negative effect in the micro, our effect on the larger ecosystem is overall positive.

117 comments:

  1. Hello SociopathWorld.

    Obama to win : )

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    1. I'd like him to win the electoral and lose the popular, just as a symbolic Fuck You to the 2000 U.S. election.

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    2. Mindless PleasuresNovember 6, 2012 at 1:27 AM

      Nice analysis there TNP. You can almost hear the lawyers now calculating how much money they can make from a contested result. The Republicans will not lose gracefully – that much I know.

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    3. Why should the Republicans loose gracefully when so much is at stake? That would be foolish, just like your statement.

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    4. Also, 75% of voter fraud was made by illegal immigrants voting democratic in 2008. Get educated.

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    5. Mindless PleasuresNovember 6, 2012 at 8:18 AM

      What’s at stake you idiot is that the Republican’s are never let near the levers of power after the disaster that was George W. Bush – who even the Republicans themselves couldn’t bring themselves to mention nor even invite to their convention. Unprecedented and unpresidential.

      In fact, after his tenure it was sayonara Dubya – don’t let the door hit you on your ass on the way out.

      And of course The Republican electoral irregularities in 2000 and 2004 are notorious and documented as a matter of historical fact - not your laughable anecdotal academically-ignored bullshit.

      Of course, Republicans are ridiculed around the world. Everyone with any intelligence outside of America can’t believe how bat-shit crazy the Republicans have become. It’s just an apocalyptic cult now. That’s why you notice only the States that are famously known for their stupidity vote Republican. The States that are the serious bread-earners for America vote Democrat. Get educated fuckwit.

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    6. I voted pretty much when the booths opened down the street. I've rarely ever anticipated an election this much. Since I'm a cancer patient, it's in my best interest that Obamacare stays in place.

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    7. Oh, you are ignoring the fact that Romney covered people in your condition in his state and said he will revamp obamacare? hmmmmmm

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    8. Oh, you are ignoring the fact that Romney changes his stances on issues up to several times a day? hmmmmmm

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    9. Yes, coming from a democrat - I ignore

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    10. Your reply is confusing me a bit. Are you claiming you're a Democrat, and that you ignored Mitt Romney's flip-flopping, or that you're ignoring me because you assume I'm a Democrat? (I'm not, by the way)

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    11. What makes you think I'm a Democrat?

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    12. That is the only real justification coming from the Obamanites: Romney does flip flop on issues. Perhaps, however, some people flip flop because they realize the majority has a different view than their own and they are seeking to better serve the people they are representing. Rather than bypassing congress to pass whatever they think is best, they go along with the wishes of the people. The fact of the matter remains that Obama is a liar, we are not "recovering well" contrary to what the band aids stuck on the problems to make Obama look good on the television may suggest. He's creating jobs! Yeah, creating government jobs paid in borrowed money. Is that a good rock-solid solution, or a public relations move to build support in an election year? I am all for healthcare for everyone but as it stands Obamacare is poised to cripple small businesses. You will need government healthcare when you have no fucking job to pay your premiums. I could go on but your mind is made up and so is mine. May the best con win! :)

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    13. You didn't answer my question. Answer my question.

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  2. Ecosystems are certainly interconnected, but one of the things that I despise about the Green movement is that they're stuck in the Now. Life comes and goes in many forms, and is constantly adapting.

    New Zealand didn't even have native predators larger than a bird for, shoot, a long fucking time (Millions of years? I can't remember) so this assumption that any one species is needed for life to maintain balance is usually a very short-sighted and ignorant sentiment.

    A lot of times, it's the food sources going extinct that can cause a huge impact on ecosystems. Can you imagine the dynamics of the ocean if there were no species of plankton left? I don't even want to imagine that.

    A few hundred wolves gone missing isn't going to end the world as we know it.


    That being said from a purely ethics point of view and more on topic of Sociopathy, I believe neurodiversity movements should be universal and not pick and choose who they deem worthy. It's really an all or nothing thing, otherwise they're just being hypocrites. I don't think there should be any sort of prejudice segregation based on mental issues, and I'm completely opposed to government-sanctioned oppression.

    Sociopathic people are a plague beset against the status quo. They shake the boat and exploit anything they can to get what they want, and prey on those too weak to protect themselves. That's the purpose of any good predator in any ecosystem. Unmitigated human bloat has its own dire consequences.

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    1. Mindless PleasuresNovember 6, 2012 at 1:32 AM

      I've always been intrigued by the FBI's definition of sociopaths as being 'inter-species predators'.

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    2. Intra-species or inter-species? That would be pretty funny if they were listed as inter-species predators by the FBI.

      ME would have to open up a secret estate for gifted sociopaths to escape from government scrutiny and learn to cultivate their powers.

      Oh wait, that was X-Men.


      Side Note: The FBI lists the Insane Clown Posse as a known gang operating in several states. Maybe the FBI isn't the most credible source for these kinds of things...

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    3. Mindless PleasuresNovember 6, 2012 at 2:01 AM

      You're right - my bad. Intraspecies predator.

      Admittedly I first read the article a few months ago - this is the actual actual here (several paragraphs down 'intaspecies predator':

      http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/july-2012/psychopathy-an-important-forensic-concept-for-the-21st-century

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    4. Just as a point to TNP. Yellowstone did better because the ecosystem was restored. It used to have wolves, then they died off and the park was not as healthy. When the wolves were re-instituted the ecosystem became healthier.

      New Zealand is not a strong counter argument because, as you stated, it didn't have predators "for shoot, a long fucking time (Millions of years? I can't remember)" Meaning adding the predators would not be a return to the ecosystems median state, but a forced change from what it was supposed to be. But no, you're right, the death of Yellowstone's wolves will not have a long term impact as other factors take their place.

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    5. You'll have to excuse my apparent logical fallacy.

      My point was simply that life will go on, and that no species is sacred against the sands of time.

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    6. Agreed. Though I don't think that's what ME meant either.

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  3. Good Morning Sociopathworld!!!!!

    Whats going on today? How are u all doing?

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    1. Mindless PleasuresNovember 6, 2012 at 3:40 AM

      I'm ok thanks bud - at work in London. I believe you're going out to vote today young man ; )

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    2. Meet Rich, the friendly Stranger mommy and daddy used to warn you about.

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    3. Mindless PleasuresNovember 6, 2012 at 3:48 AM

      haha - Rich is an intraspecies uberpath ; )

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    4. Inter and intra, c'mon nowNovember 6, 2012 at 8:13 AM

      Uberpath are both intra and interspecies, all inclusive 'caring' ones. Sociopaths are both intra and interspecies predators, all exclusive, except them. I guess fair to say that they are less loyal than animals to other creatures on the earth.

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    5. LOL! Hey everybody!!!! Hey MP!!!! Hey Anon!!!! Hey Inter and Intra!!!!!

      OMG you should have seen the voting lines today......... I was leaving the methadone clinic and passed the church by my house at 6:20am, and the polls didnt open til 7:00 am, and the line was at least an hour long!!!! By 7:00 it was double the size!!!!I couldnt vote until mid-day!!!!!!

      At least I had a sample ballot so I knew how everything was going to looked and marked all of my stuff down.

      Iam for sure an Intraspecies Uberpath though! LMAO! I was reading alot about intraspecies predators and the first 2 pages that come up on google are mostly just about psychopaths

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  4. Its almost funny how some dote over the apparent depiction of the sociopath, I would've had a laugh with them myself if it weren't so appalling.

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  5. From a Biblical POV, God made the earth as a whole ecosystem.

    That is why taking out one small cog in the ecosystem will unbalance the whole thing.

    Man is different, though. The Bible is clear to make a distinction between man and animals, in that man is made in God's image.

    The problem with ASPD or any PD is that it is an aberration of the way God intended man to be. When the original man, Adam, disobeyed, he brought a perversion into the world and to every man after him.

    This perversion causes all men to be pretty rank, even the Mother Teresas. No man is good. The Bible is clear on that.

    Hence, any PD is just an exaggeration of what all men have--a bad core.


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    1. You've essentially just said that the Biblical God was too stupid for contingency plans when one of his animals goes extinct.

      If man was created by an omniscient god in order to be good, he wouldn't have a choice, let alone desire to be bad.

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    2. If your god exists then it could easily fix the brain problems like people fix new programs while testing. Also I do not believe that a completely normal human even exist, Monica, Rich are empathetic and so on, but they have their issues, everybody has them (even sociopaths). So if people with disorder exist, god is okay with it. In addition, "personality disorder" is something that humans created to separate some people from the herd. Why? Survival instinct - you can be more successful if you compete with fewer opponents. And we do not know who has the "normal brain".

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    3. Miracles can and do happen. Google Smith Wigglesworth.

      He was a common, ordinary plumber in England. He decided to put God to the test and see if the Bible would actually work.

      He went out on a limb and would not relent until God healed people of all sorts of things. The bridge to healing was his faith, not God's ability.

      Tumors even fell out of people onto the stage.

      Faith can heal anything, anything at all. Most men do not have that kind of faith but it is possible.

      If one does, all things can heal, all PD's and all diseases.

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    4. A con man is hardly something you should be encouraging people to look up when you're trying to defend your faith.

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    5. Smith took no money. He was not a con man. Of course, you would say that *sigh*

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    6. Con men do not only desire money. Of course you'd be too ignorant to know that.

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    7. Smith sounds like he's the forerunner of the new Zombie Apocalypse movement. Wow raising a guy who had been embalmed. That's some wild fairy story. Apparently though he could not escape the sleep of forever himself since he forgot to pass on his "powers" of resurrection. I guess he was too busy running about grave yards making his own version of "Thriller" Get on with your bad self BibleAnon.

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    8. I have to say I actually agree with Mee on this one..... I do think there SHOULD BE things marking out different disorders like "personality disorders", BUT, when you really think about it, what is NORMAL anyway?

      I bet ANYBODY, if they flipped through the DSM, would find that they have AT LEAST 1 disorder, most people would have alot more than just one....... But like Mee said, what is normal anyway?

      These says psychiatry makes EVERYTHING out to be a disorder, that is why they are medicating 4 year old children with ritalin and Amphetamines like Adderall...... Back in the day, people who were hyperactive just had alot of ENERGY......

      It's OBVIOUS that anybody that you give AMPHETAMINE to is going to do better at there work like school work or regular work, yet nowadays it is some "disorder", alot of it is just BS.......

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  6. TNP
    God deeded the earth to man. That was why Jesus became a God/Man as only a man could redeem the earth. That is a whole other lesson, but man is in charge of the earth, now. If man messes with the ecosystem, that is on man, not God.

    Man was created with C-H-O-I C-E.
    God could have made robots, but that would be like your getting a stuffed animal instead of a real dog ~
    God wants man to love Him because man has the choice not to.
    Capiche?

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    1. Who chosed to born with a brain disorder? Anyone? I thought so.

      If man has a choice then there's no such thing as good or bad.

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    2. So you're saying Man was intended to choose, not to be good.

      Just making sure.

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    3. Yes, man had choice. Therein, lies the problem. That has been the case from the beginning to now.

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    4. Sheep/Goat, Peace/War, Black/White, Right/Wrong
      PREDESTINATION

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    5. Capiche? Naw I prefer Cacciatore . That's my choice.

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    6. Monica, would be the last person to get religious instruction from. *sigh*

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  7. Mee
    No one chooses to be born with a brain disorder or any disorder. The earth has inherent flaws, by the nature of man's original disobedience to God. These flaws are passed down to all generations. The material world is under this and as such, very bad things can happen, such as that.

    Yes, there are absolutes. There is good and bad, but man must make the choice to follow God as the Shepard. Man is the sheep. If not, man is his own god. You can see how well that has done ~

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    1. Shur up with the bible shit. The whole garden of Eden deal was a setup from the get-go. Those 2 kids never had a chance, what with two deities conniving and competing using them as pawns in some cosmic, spiritual chess game.

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    2. If that were true, God wouldn't allow for a disorder where that person feels no need for redemption or servitude to a power higher than themselves, as they would never naturally reach a relationship with such a god. Even with all the elements in place for such a surrender, it would never happen past the point of delusion, because it is biologically impossible.

      Essentially your bible would indicate that the Psychopath is either not at fault for missing the path to god (like say, the severely retarded, aborted babies, et cetera) or they are proof that there is no omniscient and merciful god.

      Theologically speaking, the conscience is the connection to the biblical god when even His truth has not reached their ears. Without that connection, and without the possibility of conviction, the psychopath would therefore be exempt from damnation through no fault of their own and would be free to reign terror on the world.

      So you have two choices, Bible Anon. Give up on the Psychopaths, for they will reach heaven regardless, or abandon your faith.

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    3. Every single human being ever created feels a stirring for God. YOU are being narrow minded TNP, not I.
      Many psychopaths have found God in a genuine conversion, such as Son of Sam and Jeffrey Dahlmer.

      Keep looking TNP~

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    4. "Every single human being ever created feels a stirring for God. "

      Whatever… you KNOW this how? And don't say because "the Bible Told Me So".

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    5. If I believed in your god and his weakling son I'd throw my lot in with Satan. I prefer to be on a winning team that knows how to have a good time.

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    6. How do I know it, Virus? Everyone knows it, if one is honest with oneself.

      Don't worry Elicit. You will get your wish. It is your choice. Is it not?

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    7. Jeffrey Dahmer was not diagnosed as a psychopath by any of the court appointed psychiatrists that saw him, and David Berkowitz suffered three individual head traumas as a child, was habitually psychologically abused by his father and was diagnosed as a Paranoid schizophrenic.

      I'd say "Try Again", but who am I to expect facts from someone who waves around a Bible as if it's full of truth.

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    8. So, you need authorities to TELL you Dahmer is a psychopath. I would say you need to use your own little noggin more, Bro.
      At any rate, have a nice day and PTL :D

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    9. So you defend Dahmer's psychopath, but not David Berkowitz. That's funny.

      Out of all the psychiatrists that saw Dahmer, he received two diagnoses. One claimed he was a Necrophile, and the other claimed he had a mental illness, Unspecified.

      Considering neither of us spent hours in a room with Jeffrey Dahmer after he got busted, I'd say those doctors have more authority to diagnose him than you or me.

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    10. We're going to up the ante, Bible Anon.

      BTK, also known as Dennis Rader, is one of the most notorious America serial killers, and almost didn't get caught. He was also a practicing Christian. His own pastor believed he was a Christian, and even though he had Christ, he got possessed by a demon.

      John Wayne Gacy was a practicing Roman Catholic while simultaneously murdering 28 people.

      The power of Christ did nothing to stop their murderous ways, and that was only one of their types of sin.

      They had the choice to embrace Christ, and they did. That didn't stop them.


      So knowing this, you're fully admitting that faith does not lead to a godly life for a dangerous psychopath. In fact, you're saying it does nothing at all, with the possible exception for their souls to go to heaven after they finally get put down.

      That's great for the soul of a psychopathic killer. I don't really see how their relationship with Christ changed anything. They were worse than a majority of psychopaths, regardless of their faiths.

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    11. TNP
      You know something? God is more pleased with you, arguing, than a person who is lukewarm :)

      Here is the thing, the true Born Again Christian is rare. It is a circumcision of the heart.

      The true Born Again Christian you can tell by God's love emanating from him. He will not be perfect, so don't go there.

      However, people should be able to see God's love in him.

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    12. The end of it is...
      If you feel that life is all there is and you want to make the best of it, do so.
      At least enjoy the time you have left, in case the
      'crazies' were right...
      If you have been granted to believe there's more,
      then you will pursue that, no ones going to be able to persuade you otherwise...
      Make the best of the situation. State your truth, but if you feel the need to force it you're clearly trying to convince yourself.

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    13. You cannot claim to know who is and isn't a true believer in an effort to validate your claims.

      I gave you a simple exercise in logic and faith, and you already wrote off your defense in claiming those men were not true Christians. If anyone other than god could know the heart of a man in relation to god, it would be his pastor knew the man quite well. He said he was a true Christian.

      So your pathetic little counter doesn't even hold water for that case.

      You've completely failed to provide anything compelling because there is nothing compelling to provide.

      The test was rigged, because your faith is bullshit, but I entertained your little delusions to pass the time. At this time, you've been discredited on every point anyone has bothered to address today.

      You should change your name to Wrong Anon.

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    14. I did my all preaching for one day. Take care all and I will be around~

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    15. All you did was fail today.

      I would suggest you leave the preaching to people that understand the scripture in context of real life.

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  8. Replies
    1. Bible Anon
      Good, bad, bible, psychopathy are just words, bible was created by men, morals are created too. If god exists, it is some sort of a scientist which created planets, earth and people. Now it doesn't interfere, just watches the experiment. In this case there's no afterlife and therefore no point to believe in god. Also if god would be then we would only have one religion. But religions were created to explain what was unknown and to control people. And it obviously affects you.
      And hell is overrated because there's no way to harm an immortal soul...

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  9. "Faith can heal anything, anything at all. Most men do not have that kind of faith but it is possible.
    If one does, all things can heal, all PD's and all diseases."

    Absolutely not, bible Monica. If that would be true then there would be no war, doctors and everyone would believe in the deity. One can cheat himself, wolves can be trained not to eat sheeps, but they'll forget it in time and go back to their regular diet.

    If believing is a choice then why do you want to believe?

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    1. Mee
      A person must be Born Again i.e have God's Spirit inside him. Then, that person must have the faith to believe.
      Those are the specific conditions for healing.

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    2. By that logic, anyone who has died from an incurable disease was not a true believer.

      How many examples do you need to understand how faulty your logic is?

      Oh, that's right. Christians use faith, not logic.~

      I'm kidding of course, you just give them a bad name.

      Stick to Anonymous. Calling yourself Bible Anon falsely gives you the illusion that you might know what the hell you're talking about regarding Christianity.

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  10. According the Bible, the World was created in 7 days... my issue was WHAT about the dinosaurs? Oh yeah, that's a trite argument.

    Theology as a whole has it's place. Obviously as species we humans are "programmed" across the board, countries, whatever you want to call The Big Real - but regarding the Bible to be taken as truth, it's really the same as the LDS people's views on the Book of Mormon. It's not that different than reading Greek mythology. Or J.R.R. Tolkien as we've previously discussed someplace in SW.

    Too, BibleAnon, the fact this Zombie raising dude would read NOTHING but the Bible indicates he was just a bit tilted crossways 'upstairs'. *makes a crazy face*

    This discussion has given me a nice giggle anyway. Thanks. ;-)

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    1. Your post made me laugh. My grandmother was the wife of a baptist preacher, and when I would visit her as a child she'd always give me these little books, trying her hardest to convert me.

      One of them was an entire 68 pages about why dinosaurs never existed. They're just a hoax, you see, and all the scientists and museums and archaeologists are in on the conspiracy.

      What was terrible was that she honestly believed every page, and her efforts to convince me came from a desire to help me. She believed everything that the church put in her hands. It was very disconcerting to me as a child, because I'd been raised by my mother's side of the family, which leans more toward spiritualism and religion based on personal discovery.

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  11. Ahhaha! I was so tickled I skipped a part of my post^^ ... "programmed" to believe in a Higher Power.

    We humans must just be rather confused what he or she (the Higher Power) might look like and do and act and want. But hooray BibleAnon is here to set us straight and provide our enlightenment. AND it's not even Sunday! bonus, yeah?

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  12. This one is dedicated to Bible Anon Monica:
    > Dear Beloved God in Heaven,
    >
    > Please give us a president that loves this country and
    > everything it stands for.
    >
    > Please give us a president who respects you as the
    > one true God.
    >
    > Please give us a president who will, with your help,
    > restore this nation to its former glory, the way you
    > created her.
    >
    > Please help us to respect what you have given to us
    > and not take anything for granted ever again.
    >
    > Please God weaken the evil and strengthen the good
    > both without and within.
    > May our eyes be opened.
    >
    > In Jesus name, Amen
    >
    > God Bless America

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  13. I have respect for all religions and somewhat understand why they were created by people, and I also understand that certain types of denial and faith are important crutches in this difficult life, but to have a blind faith in any religion is like having multiple personalities where one is totally unaware of the other.

    Reading what Monica says as Bible Anon above truly saddens me that even someone like Monica who is claiming to be a sheep/good/whatever is so buried in this religion thing that no wonder religious fanatics can do all the major killing and play all the major emperialistic games on people in the name of religion. For as long as the likes of Monica exist there will be religious fanatics fucking up with some large groups of people.

    In its extreme form and in stupid/evil hands, religion is more dangerous for humanity than drugs as an addiction.

    Monica, you surrendered to your mom and now in her absence you surrender to a fictitious concept, albeait respected by some group of folks. When will you find your own?

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    1. You left out the question for Monica, "Have you got your fill of attention, today?"

      How sad, that she would "USE" her faith to accomplish this "NEED."

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    2. ^I recall the Malignant Narcissist in my life did the very same; HE USED PEOPLE AND "USED" RELGION.

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    3. please stop hurting monica.

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    4. monica, please stop lying.

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  14. Here is the thing about God. If he is the Creator of the Universe and of you and all that exists, one should fall down on one's knees and worship Him.

    One should be willing to give one's life for Him.

    If He is not, one is the most stupid fool in the world to believe.

    There really is no middle course.

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    1. i always imagine God floating around in some void before the universe existed, bored out of His Mind.

      until finally one especially boring void day he creates the whole universe, you and i, time and space, and everything else that's in it.

      in a way, We, are pieces of this void god, and God himself just one of the bigger pieces. separately, the pieces are interesting and all, but just concepts. not really real. just puzzle pieces needing connecting and meaningless on their own.

      it's only when you put them together that you get the picture. that it becomes real, an experience.

      and there are many ways to put together the puzzle pieces. many different experiences, all from the same pieces.

      Christianity, i suppose, is one.

      :)

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  15. There is a book by Josh McDowell, a person who hated God as his father was the town drunk and he blamed God for his life.

    Josh became a lawyer and wanted to write a book to discredit Jesus.

    Instead, he came to believe in Jesus.

    McDowell's Book "Jesus--Lord, Liar or Lunatic" shows that you must choose one of the above.

    Jesus' words leave no in between position.

    If He was not God, He lied and said He was. Then, He would be a liar.

    If He was not a liar and thought He was God, He was a lunatic, as only a lunatic would think he was God.

    If He were a lunatic, how could He be so clear thinking?

    If He were not a liar or a lunatic, He must be God.

    There are no other choices. Jesus does not leave us with the option that He was a great teacher or a prophet or even a great man.

    Think about it and give poor Bible Anon a break here~

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    1. McDowell's Book "Jesus--Lord, Liar or Lunatic" shows that you must choose one of the above.

      You don't have to chose one of the above. You don't even have to believe that Jesus Christ was an actual person. All alleged evidence of his existence was documented in scriptures written well after he apparently lived, and there are no local records of such a man tied to any of the listed events during that time.

      Your entire faith could be based on a fictional character, not unlike a John Galt.

      I'm not saying he didn't exist, but I'm not saying he did, either. I don't know, and no one alive knows for sure.

      You'd think someone during that time would have bothered to document a miracle worker and founder of a significant cult movement, right? :P

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    2. arguing with religious people is pointless unless you're trying to influence them in some ways

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    3. What do you have to say to that, Bible Anon? Is arguing with you pointless? If it is, then you shouldn't share your sentiments in a public setting that encourages such behavior.

      Delete
    4. "There are no other choices. Jesus does not leave us with the option that He was a great teacher or a prophet or even a great man."

      WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG

      God gave us free will. He has proven that.

      You need to correct your thinking.......

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    5. The time is short. We are in the End Times.

      Maybe I can influence one person for Jesus.

      That is what my life is all about.

      Delete
    6. "Deflect is Your answer? How sad

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    7. You should definitely work on improving your conversion skills, because they're pretty terrible. Anyone who can freely think will see you for the shallow-minded ignorant fool that you are.

      There's a reason that diplomats and ambassadors are usually handpicked.

      Delete
    8. And TNP alias Monica.......your statement means nothing to me.

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    9. Is TNP Monica?

      Delete
    10. Do you consider yourself male or female?

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    11. It depends on what color my mood ring is.

      Delete
    12. If He was not God, He lied and said He was. Then, He would be a liar.

      according to the bible didn't he say he was the son of God?

      Delete
    13. Yes, He was the son of God and the son of man. This refers to Him being both a man and God.
      However, He said, "I and the Father are One"
      That may be the clearest reference to Him saying He was God.

      Delete
    14. if he was God, wouldn't he have said "i am God"?

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    15. He did say He was God when He said, "I and the Father are One"
      That was His way of saying He was God ~

      Delete
    16. i don't think "we are one" means " we are the same one"

      "we are one" means we are united.

      Delete
    17. quotes for Bible Anon:

      “Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”

      “You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.”

      :)

      Delete
    18. Jesus made it clear that He was God. He said, "I and the Father are one. If you have seen the Father, you have seen me"
      Jesus said he was God.

      The Bible is clear on this, Zoe.

      Delete
    19. what makes you believe in the Bible?

      Delete
    20. One thing and one thing---only. It can tell the future, in detail.

      Delete
    21. The Bible is the only book, ever written, which can foretell the future, in detail, with no error.

      Delete
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  17. A casual stroll though a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
    Nietzsche

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    Replies
    1. And he should know.......his last days were spentin an insane asylum.

      Delete
  18. One wonders if Sociopaths, as Top predators relative to Human Beings, see themselves as having a positive impact on the ecosystems of this planet. Íf they see Human Beings as Prey, then what would be their Final Solution for Humanity?

    ReplyDelete

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