Monday, November 19, 2012

Freedom

This is an interesting exchange between Kevin Dutton, author of The Wisdom of Psychopaths and an apparently (?) psychopathic prisoner he interviewed. First they discuss what Dutton is going to do that evening, out there. Then the prisoner goads Dutton about not pulling the trigger on asking some girl out, then:


"Look Kev, I can see that I've offended you and I really didn't mean to do that. I'm sorry. Enjoy yourself tonight. And when you see her—her, you'll know who she is—think of me."

He winks. I feel a pulse of affection and am filled with self-loathing. I say: "I'm not offended, Mike. Really. I mean it. I've learned a lot. It's brought it home to me just how different we are. You and me. How differently we're wired. It's helped. It really has. And I guess the bottom line is this: That's why you're in here and I'm (I point at the window) out there." I shrug, as if to say it's not my fault. As if, in a parallel universe, things could just as easily have turned out different.

Silence.

Suddenly, I'm aware that there's a chill in the room. It's physical. Palpable. I can feel it on my skin. Under my skin. All over me. This is something I've read about in books. But have, up until this moment, never experienced. I stand for five agonizing seconds in a stare 40 below. Ever so slowly, as if some new kind of gravity has been seeping in unnoticed through the vents, I feel the arm vacate my shoulders.

"Don't let your brain piss you about, Kev. All those exams—sometimes they get in the way. There's only one difference between you and me. Honesty. Bottle. I want it, I go for it. You want it, you don't.

"You're scared, Kev. Scared. You're scared of everything. I can see it in your eyes. Scared of the consequences. Scared of getting caught. Scared of what they'll think. You're scared of what they'll do to you when they come knocking at your door. You're scared of me.

"I mean, look at you. You're right. You're out there, I'm in here. But who's free, Kev? I mean really free? You or me? Think about that tonight. Where are the real bars, Kev? Out there?" (He points at the window.) "Or in here?" (He reaches forward and, ever so lightly, touches my left temple)

I like that thought. Who is really more free?

78 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Fuck your mother Julius.

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  2. Can it be...First?

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  3. free the psychopaths!!!!

    Id take being mentally bound by culture and laws written for idiots than physically bound in a prison.

    Being able and prone to acting on impulse seems to be a prison in itself. Unable resist acting in a way that has a high likelyhood of being detrimental to oneself is absolutely no different than acting purely on emotion. Interesting that impulsive psychos do not understand emotion and normal people do not understand lack of emotion yet they seem to be very similar. An act of passion and an act of cold blood. Funny how the one where the only purpose is vengeance and violence is sometimes a lesser crime.

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  4. :) Good Morning Everybody!!!!

    How are you all?

    I wasent here this weekend so I have some catching up to do on "Up From The Sofa"! Gotta go save them!!!!

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  5. Hi SW and Rich!!!!

    That writing was incredible. What a gift to write like that.

    I have been realizing that my prison is in my head, but the question is how to unchain it.




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    1. Here is my dilemma. I know my thinking is whacked but where do you go from there?

      Periodically, I get super discouraged and feel I have made, virtually, no progress.

      I think you have to attack the cognitive problems from the emotional end.

      IOW, you have to get to the point where you can feel, freely.

      Then, your cognitive restraints will lift. Then, you should be out of your prison.

      This is so very, very hard.

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    2. Monica, lately I have been feeling my jealousy for certain people. I did always deny myself to feel it. It does never come across irl. I am happy about it, I guess. But it is painful.

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    3. Anon
      It is funny because I was just thinking why I am so attracted to sociopaths.

      I deal with a lot of people and certain ones are sociopath magnets.

      I put that together with learning to sing and my teacher telling me I am the most pent up person he has ever seen.

      If you can't see yourself, they show it to you. They mirror to you, I suppose.

      Probably no one ever did before. So, with them, you find yourself. It is a joy of immense proportions.

      Losing yourself is about the worst thing that can happen to a person.

      Then, a man comes along and HE can see you. You can see and feel yourself, as well.

      The problem is that when he leaves, your own intimacy with yourself leaves, too.

      He shone the light, but you don't know how to keep it on.

      That must be why woman lose all that they have, even their lives, looking for this key to themselves.

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    4. I have always been curious if a co-dependent becomes involved with a sociopath to learn from them? Because they believe that the sp is free of pain? Any thoughts?

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    5. Yes, but it is not conscious. You are attracted from your deepest wounds, I think.

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    6. Mine was conscious - a deliberate decision.

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    7. Perhaps, in the future. I'm not ready, yet.

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    8. Ok
      I will be here, God willing and the creek don't rise :D

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  6. I'm a diagnosed psychopath. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

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    Replies
    1. Ashley,

      Just out of curosity. Do sociopaths feel affection. Would you say they like affection?

      Sean

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    2. 1. Who diagnoesd you?
      2. How were you diagnosed?
      3. And so fucking what?

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    3. + for 1st and 2nd anons questions.

      * why are you doing this?

      * do others know about your condition, how they react?

      * how it makes you feel (to know who you are)?

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    4. were you diagnosed in jail?

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    5. *to show how fake averyone here is

      *they know my father is the same as me he calles it a little autism (lol but he does say he's good at manipulating)
      (ther's no telling if he's lieing or not)
      most ppl don't believe me ofc
      i just tell them to see what there reaction is.
      i was just talking to my ex and i told here she did the recearch but she still does not get it.
      only one who gets it is my boss (i bullied him relentless but i'm problebe one of his best freinds at work still. (and his best worker)

      *doesn't make me feel bad that i know it's like Mmm interesting

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    6. Very good questions.

      Have a good day now.

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  7. Ashley and anyone else who choose to. If this were you what would be going through you.

    I have a co-worker friend who is a sociopath. We have a close friendship of sort. He pisses me off sometimes but we get over it. Recently he did something that I consider disrespectful and disregarding to me as a close friend. I expressed myself but he was unrresponsive and he did not apologized. That i expect and is cool with.

    However, I stopped speaking to him. Not malice. Just taking a break from him. We say morning and goodbye depending on who came in to work first or whoever is leaving first. Otherwise we deal on a professional basis. No friendship.

    My observation is this: Whenever we are not on friendship terms he tends to show me regard and respect where he was disregarding and disrespectful at first. I can get him to comply and he has this humility about him. I get no challenge from him at this point. He tends to seem rejected when we are not on good terms as I am closest to him at work. I am the only co-worker he will allow to see behind the mask as I do not judge him. Do you think that he becomes compliant and respectful to me because he missed the constant entertainment and attention I supply to him. Or might he be upset with himself for causing me upset.

    What do you see when you analyze?

    Patterson

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    Replies
    1. You said it yourself, his mask is back on. We let the mask slip if we get friendly.

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  8. It is uncomfortable situation.

    All I have is a story similar .

    I have a friend. a narcissist. I've talked about her here before. Zoe and TNP said i was her "sidekick" She is very proud of herself for thinking she has got a sociopathic co worker to "like" her.

    He once asked her "what is your angle" and she seemed to be pleased with herself. She thinks they have a pact.

    She's snarky and a snob and thinks she knows everything about everyone. People eventually leave her because she is a know-it-all and always telling people what to do, getting close , then insulting them, and then feeling hurt and irresponsible. But I digress



    THis man she calls a sociopath at her work place bumped into her while commuting and she put her arm through his. She felt quite special, as if she knew a secret and he liked her. She felt honored.

    But once , in the beginning of their relationship, she called him a con artist. She jumped this boundary and it seems he will never let her in if you ask me. She's too dangerous. Once at a freelance gig she inadvertently got him fired for trying to do the "right "thing at work in a situation where the whole thing was none of her business. He yelled at her and accused her of malice. I guess he is a bit paranoid as well as ...right.

    Ultimately it will hurt him if they get too close. She says he stays away a bit likke you say your coworker does. Really, I don't blame him.

    People here say the biggest fear a sociopath has is being found out . I think he fears her.

    As TNP might put it, she's in the threat category,

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    Replies
    1. Then again, he can handle her, so maybe not too much a threat.

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    2. my biggest fear is living for ever in bordem
      i was found out long time ago and i like it
      (even by the cops but i never gone to jail)

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    3. ANON 9:24am.........Thanks for your input. I do understand that socio fear being found out. At the same time one cannot find them out unless they allow it.....in my view that is. A person might see odd things at time but don't necessarily question it. I have also learnt that one of their biggest fear is rejection. Rejection might be one of the elements that threatned or hurts a socio most....maybe.

      In my case I doubt my buddy feels threatned by me. As soon as he gets relaxed around me he opens up. He often tell me things voluntarily. I will agree that he does not answer all of my questions or not entirely. But if I pose the same questions at another time I will get answers. I guess it depends on his mood.

      Right now I don't mind the break between us because the friendship takes a lot out of me emotionally sometimes. He likes attention. I am using the break to refresh and rebuild myself.

      Thanks again.
      Patterson

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    4. don't be offended by the sidekick comment. anyone close to a narcissist becomes their sidekick or leaves. they're pretty good at arms length but awful if you get close. familiarity breeds contempt with a narcissist.

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  9. Why did this post remind me of this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C0_jDBxJ8w

    and this:

    "It's very important to transcend places that hold us."
    -Denzel Washington as Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter

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  10. M.E.
    Could there be some that are more fearful than others? I was told that there is a biological predisposition for fear.
    That would explain some empaths being free of fear.

    Furthermore, I consider the perks of sociopathy as they do not face fear in piloting airplanes, racing cars and etc. But many empaths go into undeveloped countries and face some life threatening challenges - so, are they, also, free?

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  11. How can a SP/NP be free if they are always wearing chains with the words "I am better than you," engraved very deeply in those chains?

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    Replies
    1. That makes no fucking sense and sounds like you are trying too fucking hard to be cool.
      Stop.

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    2. And who are you to reprimand me? No one!

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    3. "And who are you to reprimand me?"

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxOZ6gifTjA

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  12. questions

    1/ what happens when you humiliate a sociopath?
    2/ what do sociopaths do in their free time?
    3/ what happens when you knock the fuck out of a sociopath?

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    Replies
    1. You are fucking trying too hard.......it's obvious you know the answers. Stop.

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    2. 1 i lol
      2 i answer stupid questions
      3 i get up for round 2

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    3. i rememeber getting into a fight as a kid with 2 kids that were 4 years older than me they knocked me out i got up
      knocked me out again got up again
      (kept on going lol)

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    4. i lol, too, to those that think they have a monopoly on bravery.

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    5. What a bunch of little geniuses we have on here. There's one thing you people need to know. Intelligence, courage, strength has nothing to do with sociopathy. You can be a doormat and still be a sociopath. Get that through your little heads.

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    6. Just trying to make the "little" one smaller for starting this fiasco.

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    7. But look the "little fuck" just went to the 10:26 post........

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    8. 10:26 and the "little fuck" are not the same Anon.

      And obviously you don't know who I am.

      What a shame.

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    9. I agree Anon at 1009 being a sociopath doesn't mean you're a Super Hero or the brightest crayon in the box.

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    10. And being a bully means you are one of those dull colors. Right, Lunar?

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  13. http://www.redlights.be/escort/dames/28896_high-class-victoria.html
    does she look like a predator?
    i'm pritty sure she does

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    Replies
    1. i remember a thing about crazy ppl on tv
      one ther was a thing about criminal on i've seen the comercial about it 2 sec of someone's face i knew that he wasn't "real"
      and turned out i was right he was a diagnosed
      psychopath

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    2. it's how they use micro expressions that's a giveway

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  14. I've had this conversation with someone almost word for word. It's unKanny.

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  15. ukan isn't real he's bits and bites

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  16. To free yourselves from your demons(mind) is the only true freedom.

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  17. To have true freedom, what a wonderful dream.

    If you have people that rely on you, such as family, no matter how tempting it might be, you must decide what matters more.

    To do anything you want is liberating, but it can, and chances are will, land you in serious trouble. Giving in to those impulses, without thinking it through properly might get your freedom taken away for the rest of your life.

    The prisoner claims he is more free, but he is the one who is told what to do, when and how by the guards and/or other prisoners. A lot of his choices have been taken away along with his control. And he might never get them back.

    To be neurotic is hell, but some fear is beneficial. That way if you really set out to do something, you will stop and think it through first. Try to foresee the traps and pitfalls so you can figure out a way to avoid them. Then there is a better chance of you getting what you want and getting away with it.
    Plan it well and live to play another day.

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  18. Thomas had gambling debts. and Ukan and Kanny were breathing down his neck.

    His next visit from the dysfunctional couple would be in 3 weeks.

    ME would pay Thomas the $10,000 if Thomas could get to second base headway with Monica.

    Thomas reporting for duty, Thomas thought, wryly.

    Thomas was not allowed to have Love Potion number 9 until he had used up his own seduction techniques.

    He had to take Monica as far as he could the old fashioned way i.e seduction.

    Thomas was good at it, but not as good as ME. However, he was good enough and he never wanted $10 000 so badly.

    Damn if he would ever gamble again.

    Damn if he would ever do anything bad again, just to be rid of UKan forever.

    That was Thomas' prayer as he entered the office of Dr Monica Moo.

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  19. Thomas had only seen Monica from a distance.

    Now, he was sitting face to face, their chairs a few feet apart.

    Monica was friendly enough but she had a reserve. Other than that she was attractive in a buttoned down librarian kind of way.

    Today, she wore an expensive, designer skirt with a 3 inch slit up the side and black boots. She crossed her legs which were long and shapely, as she asked him why he came to her.

    Her blouse was while silk and from some expensive designer, he was sure. He knew all of them, as he dressed in no less.

    As he paused to answer her question, he wondered if he should tell his real life story or make up a total fabrication.

    He decided on the real one. Why the heck not? ME was paying for the ride.

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    Replies
    1. I have seen the names ME, Monica, Alia, UKan, Medusa all over this place, but who is this Thomas person?
      Is that you UFS?

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    2. Thomas is ME's twin ( a person made up for literary interest ~ )

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  20. Anyone here know the differences between a psychopath and a sociopath ?

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    Replies
    1. See if this might explain some things.

      http://blogs.psychcentral.com/forensic-focus/2010/07/sociopathy-vs-psychopathy/

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    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbsTjWqhaO0&feature=watch-vrec

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    3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6v8M78WEOs&feature=related

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  21. "Sociopath" is not a mental health diagnosis. It does not appear in the DSM or ICD. It is a colloquial word used to describe the psychopathic narcissist.

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    Replies
    1. schizoid clusterB and a bit of avoidant
      http://bctp.datasenter.no/?page_id=4

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  22. DiagNONSENSE. (not original; see "Girl, Interrupted," but it fits)

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  23. EA November 19, 2012 5:09 AM

    "You said it yourself, his mask is back on. We let the mask slip if we get friendly."

    Thanks for that insight. You are right on. Your remarks brought back something to memory. This buddy and I have been working together for some 5 years now. Working relationship was good. It was just in the past 2 years we became very close. Close to the point where he told me his deepest darkest secret. In my opinion I suspect that he is a sociopath with some narcissist tendencies.

    As you have said EA that my friend has put the mask back on. This is the memory that came back due to your insight. The mask is back on is so true because the respect, regard and compliance he is displaying now was actually the kind of characteristics shown to me by him the years before we became buddies. So the mask is back on as you said.

    What is interesting? The moment I open communication with him again the mask comes off just like that. Not slipped off but taken off. I don't know what in his life he has not shared with me. However, I wont accept disrespect or disregard from him. I often ask myself if he is unable to see that I am a friend and not an enemy or threat to him.
    Thanks again EA.

    To Sean above. I don't know for sure if socios feel affection. My socio buddy told me once that he likes affection. Not sure if it is true. We were just getting to know each other. Well his reaction to affection is different in that he doesn't show much at all. One time only can I distinctly recall he showed me genuine affection. Anyway, he allows me to give him affection. Examples: I can hug him at the neck, or waist and it doesn't bother him. I can rub his head, slap him in the neck back, ect and he is cool as ever. He will give me a hug if I ask but he does not give compliments. He will initiate affection if he is manipulating to get something. But we laughed when I see through the manipulation. So I'm not sure if there is any warm fuzzy feeling inside the socio in response to affection. One of the others will have to answer for you.

    Patterson

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  24. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6v8M78WEOs&feature=related

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  25. Mike and Kev are both prisoners (here, of their own device).

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  26. ME insists that s/he is a law-abiding sociopath (?!), but then ruins a carefully-sculpted mask with this hero-worship nonsense.

    ReplyDelete

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