Thursday, April 29, 2010

Sociopaths and depression

From a reader:
I am already sorry that my email has to begin with "my ex-boyfriend is a sociopath..." because I know this is something most women think has happened to them. My ex, however, is what he describes as "caught in the net"; a diagnosed sociopath, treated once in hospital and still in occupational care. Not that it helps, of course.

When we were together, he didn't act in a way that most women would describe their apparently sociopathic exes as acting, in fact he was very loving and caring, and always spoke of the huge amounts of respect he had for me, and how he took me seriously, and this is why he loved me. Before we were together we were friends and I would watch him systematically destroy the emotional lives of his exes, just for fun, just for kicks. My reasons for loving him were the normal ones; mainly, I was attracted to the sociopath in him.

I saw him just the other day, and we had this long conversation, where he told me about how much he feels he is suffering. I am adverse to all people who assume that sociopaths have no feelings whatsoever. Sure, he doesn't feel guilt, which sometimes makes me feel incredibly upset that he could - and has - hurt me spectacularly, and the only remorse he would feel would be the remorse would follow my excommunication of him, not the fact that he had upset me.

He has started to complain of feeling he has built himself a prison of his own behaviours, that his lack of impulse control is what's driving him to his own insanity. He doesn't feel guilty, his problem doesn't lie in his fear that he is hurting people, it is his basic fear that he will be lonely, that he is damaging himself. He has had a few scares that have nearly killed him, a few outbursts that have landed him in the Police Station or the psychiatric unit. He said something to me about his grip on reality; something about the fact that every time he does something "typically psychopathic", he is bored of himself, and he feels another barrier between him and the real world has gone up. I'm not entirely sure what he means by this.

I wouldn't assume that the reason he is saying this stuff to me is to appeal to my empathy, because I currently have nothing he wants. He is always relatively honest with me, in that if he wants something from me, he will ask for it. He respects me, still, so the mind games he plays with me are very minor and are usually just to keep himself on form.

My question is, is this feeling of suffering a common thing? Sociopaths I know only feel very primal emotions, and he has often told me that my downfall in life is that I am far too empathetic and this is slowing me down, that I could be like him if I wanted to but I'm too compassionate and he finds this quite sickening.
Occupational hazard?

28 comments:

  1. honey, do you need that kind of drama in your life??? if you love him, LET HIM GO!! he is a big boy and has a grasp on what he is doing, it's called free choice. i suggest you learn real fast to say...."not my problem" and let him go. unless, of course, you like roller coaster rides!
    ps you know it will only bring you down, right?

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  2. Suffering and bouts of depression can be common feelings of S's but so is the need to make other people feel sorry for them. I think your assumption that he respects you too much to play major games on you is a mistake to assume. I am not saying he is but thinking like that is probably a mistake when dealing with an S.

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  3. It sounds like he's telling you the truth. And it sounds like something I would say if I were ever totally honest with anyone. Don't read more into it though. Don't assume anything. Especially don't assume that just because he respects you (for now) that he wouldn't play his biggest games on you. Think about it--his sense of grandiosity. If he can play a big game on you and get away with it, he can do ANYTHING (in his mind). He may love you as much as he loves his mother, but it doesn't keep you safe from a sociopath's scams. If you enjoy the game (and some of us do), then play it too. Just be sure you realize that he will win every time.

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  4. WOW!!!!! Thank you for the post and comments!! I have to think about this for a while.

    Grace

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  5. "He doesn't feel guilty, his problem doesn't lie in his fear that he is hurting people, it is his basic fear that he will be lonely, that he is damaging himself. "

    You totally nailed it with this. I hardly have any friends anymore. I don't miss the companionship as much as I miss having someone I could call if I needed to jump start my car or something. So, lately I've been trying to network and make some new connections, if only for practical reasons like the one I mentioned. You see, we do the right things but for all the wrong reasons.
    It sounds like you understand him well. Half of him probably appreciates that you "get" him and the other half probably wants to punish you for it.
    I wonder too if that feeling of suffering is a common thing. I really feel like you nailed it in your letter, but I wonder what others think.

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  6. When I met the socio in my life, well ex-bf, he assested me, manipulated me by giving me what I longed for, but really didn't mean it, and after he got sex he bailed. Just like that. Then it happened one more time. And the way he got me back was by telling me how lonely he was and talked about suicide. This was a week later. I felt bad and I was lonely too and missed him. So I went back..attracted to the socio in him…just like the post said. A few days later I started to get an insecure feeling..like this was going to happen again and I told him I needed time. He then convinced me that he wasn’t going anywhere and that there was no reason to feel insecure. Of course I was flattered by his strong feelings for me and making me feel good about it. A few days later he took me too his parents all was fun..we went four wheeling and he showed me how to use a gun (strange but fun) and he was having fun and liked that I was into his hobbies. He expressed interest in mine too. He was very good at sex..either that or I was very desperate cause I hadn’t had it in a while! But two day later he bailed again. Blaming me for everything. But I did nothing that called for a breakup. The post is great and I'm grateful it came up.

    Grace.

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  7. When will you ladies understand that they just dont give a fuck about you(or themself) as much as they pretend they do..

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  8. ThevoicesarecallingApr 29, 2010 10:39 PM

    When I hear about socio's wanting people to feel sorry for them, the socio is weak. Why don't you just use your gift for people to admire and look up to, even fear the socio? When person A is feeling sorry for person B, person A is dominating over person B. And people feeling sorry for others is so easy to accomplish. Why not have more fun and make people look up to you, follow you, so you can use them for whatever you want. A little more work, but the rewards are much better. And it's much more fun

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  9. That's funny..I mean it sounds like a set of instructions that come in my son’s hot wheels toy. But I'm sure that's the ultimate script.

    Once said,
    It sounds like you understand him well. Half of him probably appreciates that you "get" him and the other half probably wants to punish you for it.

    So true! I told him I understood him and he responded by confirming it. And that was the end of that conversation..he bailed. I have learned more here than all the psychology classes I have taken. I hate that I have to learn the hard way. You people are so smart no one would deny that but only in your own world not THE WORLD. If you can't bring happiness to people and yourself then what good is it?

    Grace

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  10. That's funny..I mean it sounds like a set of instructions that come in my son’s hot wheels toy. But I'm sure that's the ultimate script.

    Once said,
    It sounds like you understand him well. Half of him probably appreciates that you "get" him and the other half probably wants to punish you for it.

    So true! I told him I understood him and he responded by confirming it. And that was the end of that conversation..he bailed. I have learned more here than all the psychology classes I have taken. I hate that I have to learn the hard way. You people are so smart no one would deny that but only in your own world not THE WORLD. If you can't bring happiness to people and yourself then what good is it?

    Grace

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  11. if you love him set him free..seriously? my S husband is as addictive as crack..there is no quitting him..we have been apart before but the feelings for him never stop...since i know that, i accept that he doesn't love or process relationships the same way that i do..but i know what he feels is real to him..and he is very good to me..he makes me feel alive, and ironically, safe..relationships with an "outed" s can work.. will we last? not without heartaches but how is that so different from any relationship? its all a gamble...but so worth the risk..

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  12. grace said...
    If you can't bring happiness to people and yourself then what good is it?

    None. It's a curse. He is probably the lonliest man on earth. Even sociopaths need love. But seriously, take care of yourself first--just like he does. He'll respect you more for that anyway.

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  13. Good advise! Thank you.

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  14. Thevoicesarecalling said...
    When I hear about socio's wanting people to feel sorry for them, the socio is weak. Why don't you just use your gift for people to admire and look up to, even fear the socio? When person A is feeling sorry for person B, person A is dominating over person B. And people feeling sorry for others is so easy to accomplish. Why not have more fun and make people look up to you, follow you, so you can use them for whatever you want. A little more work, but the rewards are much better. And it's much more fun


    nice theory but it doesn't work that way. people admire from a distance but compete up close. if you want to do all the work yourself, then fine you be the star, but if you want others to do it, you have to let them shine. which may involve dumbing down, coming across harmless, even pathetic, and letting them feel sorry for you and feel superior. think Columbo.

    and it's not so easy to accomplish. you have to have the ability to listen to others and pay attention, and enough confidence to not care if you're hated or looked down on. sort of an art.

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  15. "None. It's a curse. He is probably the lonliest man on earth. Even sociopaths need love. But seriously, take care of yourself first--just like he does. He'll respect you more for that anyway."

    agreed, & in my experience the few socio's Ive known in depth has always been in control, manipulating and conning their way through ppl and situations but Ive always found they seemed to have a sense of contempt for those who can fully love & feel. Maybe its just my interpretation, but ive always seen it as anger that their lonliness is self inflicted.

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  16. I think this S's intentions are multivalent:

    He's disclosure is both an exaggerated demand for attention to his difficulties and a means of manipulating and controlling the girl.

    One of the symptoms of S is dysphoria -- not so much 'depression' as a chronic restless/irritable/dissatisfied feeling that leads to impulsive or unmotivated acts.

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  17. it feels like nothing is ever good enough, or right. the impulsive acts temporarily relieve that feeling. they don't seem impulsive at the time, but logical.

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  18. One of the symptoms of S is dysphoria -- not so much 'depression' as a chronic restless/irritable/dissatisfied feeling that leads to impulsive or unmotivated acts.

    this is so true..i see this a lot in my husband..it comes and goes but when the dysphoria is present, it is very intense and pervasive, the air gets thick and there is no "reasoning" with it...talking like i would talk to a friend..to see things in a different perspective, are futile..it can get lonely during these times, as he is out of reach but fortunately, they don't last long..it is usually over a specific event or person that he will obsess over and then as quickly the mood comes, it goes...as the the intensity lessens and he comes back..but not with some new self-awareness or change of perspective, just more firmly resolved in his position really..which is so different from how i process stuff..but that's him and we are very different in how we see the world..if i were to try and change him, i would be a very frustrated human being..his opinions and perspectives are pretty well fixed..i accept that and don't try to insert my own (well, most of the time)

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  19. Hi, I wrote this in.

    Whilst I said that he doesn't play big games with me now, I didn't say that I don't think he ever will. I said to him not long ago "How do I know now that after all these years, you're not just building me up to something really huge? How do I know you aren't just drawing me closer and closer just to drop me again?" and he said "It's been too long, now. Besides, I might be. It would be your mistake."

    To all of you who say "You don't need this drama in your life" you are probably right, and I'm not one of these who would describe him as addictive. Sure, he's quite intoxicating, but that's all. If I wanted to have him out of my life, I could easily do that. I am moving soon, so I just need to not tell him my address, change all means of contact and never bother with him. But I don't, because I don't believe that just because he is hard work, he deserves to be lonely.

    His misery doesn't ever last too long, but when it does come it is intense and unbearable to see. He seems to lose a bit of a grip on himself. He's never at risk of doing anything awful but he's more at risk of wearing himself down. However, the narcissism inside of him tells him he can't do that; he is far too "good" for all of that.

    I have spoken to him about the idea that this really could just be a means of control and yes, it is not wise to assume, but at this point - as I said - there's nothing he wants. He doesn't manipulate me because he doesn't control me. I have a life apart from him, and we keep a safe distance.

    I think it's of course sensible of people to say "He could just be manipulating you", but I think it's ironic and sad that it is being suggested that I might as well cut him out of my life just in case. He could hurt me, yes, but then he could also be run over by a car tomorrow. I don't believe he deserves to be lonely and lose a friend just because of what he COULD do. I don't understand how any suggestion of wanting to stay relatively close to a sociopath on this website is met by comments saying that the Sociopath has got you "right where he wants you", or that you are some sort of tragic borderline personality wanting to cling to an abusive lover. Sometimes it's neither of those things.

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  20. Just because you don't feel like he is controlling you, doesn't mean he isn't manipulating you. You won't notice the strings in the hands of a good puppeteer. True manipulation is utilizing cause and effect to make the point of interest believe they are freely choosing to do what you ultimately wanted. They "decided" to open an umbrella, but you made it rain. They chose to stay a part of your life, but you played on their sympathies. This is not strictly a socio/empath problem. Women in general have this problem. They put agendas behind the words and actions of another to justify their behavior or feelings toward them. You obviously have a strong emotional attachment to this man and are justifying his behavior. This is more for you than for him. Congrats, you're a typical chick.

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  21. Father DearestMay 5, 2010 10:55 AM

    I agree with Anonymous. Sociopaths are allowed to have friends. We are allowed to like people. Sometimes we actually do form bonds with people. I have a woman in my life who I love dearly, and the relationship we have is similar to the one this girl describes.
    Sociopaths get depressed and need company, we thrive on company and hate to be alone. So it doesn't hurt to have someone around who knows a lot about you and who you don't wish to hurt.
    I also don't hate all women, C.

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  22. What does hating all women have to do with it?

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  23. The biggest problem people seem to have with understanding that sociopaths have emotions is that we often exaggerate our feelings for personal gain. Having said that, I have nothing to gain from commenting here, and I personally do become depressed. I can't speak for all sociopaths, but I think our biggest vices are that at some point we grow tired of lying, of hurting and not knowing to do with our pain, and of society's high demands. This is just my personal experience though.

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  24. Mostly, sociopaths relationships are a one night stand or long term. The long term partner is based on someone who's useful and valuable. They thrive on confrontation. They have purpose in everything they are doing. They use people. They are not afraid to abandon you coldly and to her face reguardless of how it makes you hurt. Ask anyone in here who's broken up with a sociopath.
    People who have low self esteem and abandonment issues tend to have short burst relationships that last till the infactuation wears off. They have commitment issues with men who are not dominant. They have lack of initiative so that is a need they want filled, but they seek men who don't because they are afraid that they will abandon them and leave them hurt. They are right in a sense because they are extremely vulenrable when with a dominant man. This is why they say nice guys finish last. They are afraid of confrontation, and engage in passive aggressive behaviour compulsively. When they are alone they go on a downward deppressing spiral so they need attention.
    She said that men cried to her in the break up. This shows the type of men she seeks. Everyone has a type and I'm sure she didn't break her pattern. She tends towards weak men and finds them undesirable in a matter of months. Fits right in.
    Another statement was that they would call her and ask her out, and she would lie to them. Why lie? Why pick up the phone at all? She felt compelled to explain why she wouldn't hang out with them. Being unconfrontational she lied to spare his feelings not to make some plot. Its obvious. What else would you gain.
    Another statement said she would fake crying if they broke up with her. To what end? The reality was she was crying for real and has rewritten history to delude herself that she's in control.
    Another statement says she would comfort her crying ex. Why? What sociopath can stand the pathetic sound of crying anyway? Maybe if something was at the end of this trail of tears, but no. No, instead we are led to believe it was a diabolical plot to get men to break up with her. Why not say you're now a lesbian? How bout fucking a man while he's walking in? Why make him break up at all? She wants to spare their feelings, and that's the only logical explanation.

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  25. For the most part sociopaths relationships are a one night stand or long term. The long term partner is based on someone whos useful and valuable. They thrive on confrontation. They have purpose in everything they are doing. They use people. They are not afraid to abandon you coldly and to her face reguardless of how it makes you hurt. Ask anyone in here who's broke up with a sociopath.
    People who have low self esteem and abandonment issues tend to have short burst relationships that last until the infactuation wears off. They have commitment issues with men who are not dominant. They have lack of initiative so that is need they want filled, but they seek men who dont because they are afraid that they will abandon them and leave them hurt. They are right in a sense because they are extremely vulenrable when with a dominant man. This is why they say nice guys finish last. They are afraid of confrontation, and engage in passive aggressive behaviour compulsivly. When they are alone they go on a downward depressing spiral so they need attention.
    She said that men cried to her during their break up. This shows the type of men she seeks. Everyone has a tyoe and Im sure she did break her pattern. She tends towareds weak men and finds them undesirable in a matter of months. Fits right in.
    Another statement was that they would call her and ask her out, and she would lie to them. Why lie? Why pickup the phone at all? She felt compelled to explain why she wouldnt hang out with them. Being unconfrontational she lied to spare his feelings not to make some plot. Its obvious. What else would you gain.
    She claimed she would fake cry when they broke up with her. To what end?
    The reality was she was crying for real and has rewritten history to delude herself that shes in control.
    Another statement says she would comfort her crying ex. Why? What sociopath can stand the pathetic sound of crying? Maybe if there was something at the end of the trail of tears, but no. No instead we are led to believe it was a diabolical plot to get men to break up with her. Why not say you're now a lesbian? How bout fucking someone as they walk through your door? Why make him break up with you at all. Why not break up him? She wants to spare his feelings, because shes afraid of confrontation.

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  26. For the most part sociopaths relationships are a one night stand or long term. The long term partner is based on someone whos useful and valuable. They thrive on confrontation. They have purpose in everything they are doing. They use people. They are not afraid to abandon you coldly and to her face reguardless of how it makes you hurt. Ask anyone in here who's broke up with a sociopath.
    People who have low self esteem and abandonment issues tend to have short burst relationships that last until the infactuation wears off. They have commitment issues with men who are not dominant. They have lack of initiative so that is need they want filled, but they seek men who dont because they are afraid that they will abandon them and leave them hurt. They are right in a sense because they are extremely vulenrable when with a dominant man. This is why they say nice guys finish last. They are afraid of confrontation, and engage in passive aggressive behaviour compulsivly. When they are alone they go on a downward depressing spiral so they need attention.
    She said that men cried to her during their break up. This shows the type of men she seeks. Everyone has a tyoe and Im sure she did break her pattern. She tends towareds weak men and finds them undesirable in a matter of months. Fits right in.
    Another statement was that they would call her and ask her out, and she would lie to them. Why lie? Why pickup the phone at all? She felt compelled to explain why she wouldnt hang out with them. Being unconfrontational she lied to spare his feelings not to make some plot. Its obvious. What else would you gain.
    She claimed she would fake cry when they broke up with her. To what end?
    The reality was she was crying for real and has rewritten history to delude herself that shes in control.
    Another statement says she would comfort her crying ex. Why? What sociopath can stand the pathetic sound of crying? Maybe if there was something at the end of the trail of tears, but no. No instead we are led to believe it was a diabolical plot to get men to break up with her. Why not say you're now a lesbian? How bout fucking someone as they walk through your door? Why make him break up with you at all. Why not break up him? She wants to spare his feelings, because shes afraid of confrontation.

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  27. Sociopaths are a walking tornado that suck you in and eventually spit you out. While you are up in the air swirling in a relationship with them, the fierce winds rip your heart out and tear you from limb to limb.

    I recently discovered that my husband of 25 years is a Sociopath. We were high school sweethearts, married, had children and I dedicated 20 years of my life being the business mind of HIS business. The last few years I have discovered elaborate lies, hiding family money and constant "mind games" perpetrated to make me believe that I'm going crazy... Mean and cruel. I have been an honest and faithful wife, married to Satan in a charming, handsome, muscular and kind(good actor) illusion suit. A sociopath that gets married and destroys the opportunity for their spouse to meet a healthy mate, is EVIL. To potentially infect one's pregnant wife with prostitute poison STDs or worse? Sick, sick, sick... It should be a crime sentences to massive time in prison. A sociopath's marriage vows should read: After I destroy you Emotionally, Physically & Mentally, leaving you an empty shell on the verge of death... Do us part.

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