Thursday, May 7, 2009

Losing a sociopath (part II)

My response (cont.)
Empaths look at the amount of hurt caused by loss and say, "This is what this meant to me, this is how much I valued that thing and now I am grieving in equal amounts." Empaths examine their own grief that way, and they also take cues from others about how much something meant to them: "He seems to be handling this well, he must not have cared very much." But sociopaths experience grief in a much different way; it's like comparing apples to oranges. You will never know how much your sociopath cared about you or your relationship because you have absolutely no context for the amount. It would be like me telling you that he cared for you 10 martian kroners worth, or 10 billion solar pesos. There is no reference point for you to understand, no known exchange rate. And I think that is what you are really asking, right? Not does he feel sad, because I am sure if you were together with him for a year you would know that yes he does feel sad. What you are really asking is how sad does he feel, how does he feel sadness, and what makes him sad, and particularly whether he is sad about the prospect of your leaving him?

But more than just that, what you want is meaning. You want an explanation for everything that happened in the relationship, everything he said, everything you did together. I understand this about empaths -- it is not so much what happens to them but how/why that matters. Take hypothetical situation: an empath starts out with $100 in the morning, gives $50 to a homeless guy, and then gets mugged for the other $50. Or they lose the other $50 in a storm drain. They feel good about the $50 to the homeless guy and feel bad about the other $50. That is very strange to the sociopath, because both are arguably just a loss of $50. But here is the weirdest part! Empaths would rather have lost the other $50 in a storm drain than have been mugged for it. Why?! As a sociopath I see the justification for giving the homeless man the money -- you are transferring wealth to someone who will value the money more than you. But the same applies to the mugging! The money goes to someone who probably needs/values it more. The only arguably bad outcome is losing the $50 in the storm drain, which empaths feel fine about. But that's because to the empaths it is not the fact that $50 was lost in these various ways, but how it happened.

Similarly, because you are an empath, you will concoct a huge story for the relationship, an explanation for everything you were, everything that happened. You will rehash every memory, relive every conversation, even reread past correspondence searching for "answers." You will try to find meaning in this story that you piece together of what "really happened." You will look for motives, you will question everything you thought you knew about him and the relationship, and it will be very very painful. Your sociopath will not do any of this. He only knows that the relationship failed. He will only see the result, perhaps the most immediate cause. He will not suffer this rehashing pain, but it is not because he cared any more or less. He just cared differently, and he is emotionally evolutionarily advanced enough to not indulge in an elaborate investigation and revisionist history. He will grieve, and he will move on. And there is no reason at all to fault him for that. In fact, when you look at things this way, is he really the one that is causing you so much pain? You are devastated because the relationship failed and you are suffering loss. But you are in pain because you are a reactionary empath and you are making things worse by reliving and rethinking every tiny detail. You are overreacting and focusing on things that don't matter, like the whys and hows while he is focused on the true measure of success, failure, loss -- the what. I think if you are honest with yourself, you will see that your pain/disease is more autoimmune than viral. So no, I don't think he gets what "he has done" to you. I bet he doesn't attribute any of your self-inflicted pain to himself, and for good reason.

With all of this said, I realize that pain is pain no matter what the cause, and you are an empath so you probably can't be expected to do better than you're doing, and I understand that sociopaths are very difficult to deal with and that you have probably suffered a lot of frustration over the past year with him. I hope that you are able to quickly find peace and wish you all the best in your time of grief.

36 comments:

  1. I disagree about your little scenario, I think it does matter how the money is lost. I've given money to homeless people on a couple of occasions, usually when they do something which amuses me, and it's definitely a power thing. All forms of help an generosity can be seen as a way of demonstrating that you're better than the person you're helping.

    Mind you, I generally feel like a bit of an idiot later after I've sobered up (I've never given away money randomly while sober, I have too much sense for that), but it is still a touch better than just losing the money, which is power neutral. As for being mugged, well, I've never had that happen, but I'm sure I'd stew about it for quite a while. I dislike the idea that someone can take from me that which is mine, that I can be rendered powerless. I'd be very, very pissed.

    What I wouldn't care one bit about is whether or not the money ended up with someone who needed it. Other people's needs matter only insofar as they effect me, and certainly I have no concern for the needs of a homeless person or a mugger.

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    1. Sometimes in life giving up is not the best option, some of us couldn't even take NO for an answer, I am one of such, I have visited so many forums and some of the people I met on such sites told me to forget about my wife or maybe I should just let go , I always believe in following my dreams and I believe that I can get whatever I want or be who I wanna be at any point in my life. Why am saying this? My Husband left me 4 years ago he told me it is over between us i was sad when i had that for the first time but like I said I can always get whatever I want in life which was what I did, i ensure that I got him back home with me with the help of a great man call Dr ZABA known as ZABASPELLHELP@GMAIL.COM he cast a return spell for me now Husband is back home with me and we are having a good life together again.it just too real to be real It highly unbelievable i never know this braking relationship gonna come to an end am so happy for what Dr ZABA have just don for me for any one that is having same problem with me or any kinds of problem contact Dr ZABA his the solution to all problem and he can be of help to you any time. his the best spell caster so far in the instant So Be the next to share your testimony to people on how Dr ZABA help you just like the way i did AGAIN YOU CAN CONTACT THE GREAT MAN ON ZABASPELLHELP@YAHOO.COM OR ZABASPELLHELP@GMAIL.COM YOU CAN CALL HIS CELL PHONE +2348056391583 web sit (http://zabaspellhelp.webs.com/)

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  2. I can relate to the scenario, i'd rather burn my money then a mugger take it. Little b##tard, id poke the scrounging f##ker right in the eye! I'v given money to homeless people, i say let them all get pissed, thats all they have to look forward to because its not like they have a nice warm bed to get into, if that were me on the street id be getting wasted too! lol. People are way too uptight, if you have a spare pound, chuck the homeless guy a pound, God, it's not going to kill you! ha ha, it's not like you can spend that pound when you do eventually make it to your grave, and i'd rather carelessly spend everything i had then it end uo going to ungrateful money grabbing relatives that i couldn't stand in life (and theres lots of them) Infact i'd rather give the whole stinking lot to a dogs home!!...just to be spiteful.

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  3. Interesting. I very much relate to your money giving scenario. Maybe I'm an empath? I too have rehashed history over and over again trying to look for meaning and clues. I can't say that this is healthy however I don't agree with you that the sociopaths way of just shrugging it off as the relationship not working is wise either. I mean if we do not look into our past behavior then how can we correct future behavior? This is why I firmly believe that my sociopaths life has gotten worse and worse. Because he threw away and devalued the people who truly loved them when they couldn't serve a "purpose" for him that he could see. He never looked inwards and his own faults and flaws in these relationships and in turn has had more and more failed and disturbing experiences with people. If you can't look at the past your are bound to repeat it which he does. Recycling victims and bringing on new ones on a regular basis while only going downhill in life. I find it remarkable that as bored as he is with his need to be constantly doing something how little he actually acomplishes with his life. This is common with sociopaths. They have a need to constantly do something to not be bored yet they have no advanced planning for the future in what they do so it's like running in circles. I honestly don't think the sociopaths way of thinking is more advanced. It has no purpose that I can see.

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  4. I am an empath trying to understand my relationship with a psychopath, now that we have a baby, and I'm stuck with his presence for life (assuming he will stay around for my baby, which my own narcisisstic dad didn't do).

    I really am amazed at this post. It really helps me understand the nuances of how he and I are different.

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  5. BTW, there is a real problem with how a socio. deals with his grief. You call it evolutionarily advanced in emtion, but this is really someone who doesn't want to deal with pain, period.

    This orientation to failed relationships keeps him moving on to someone new, and usually this person is a lot like the ones he's attracted to in general, but he won't see it. Or he'll purposely choose someone totally different than the one he just broke up with.

    But the bottom line is that he will continue to jump from relationship to relationship, until he gets old enough to see what a lie he has lived, or he just ends up in a long-term relationship where someone dies spritually or physically, and it's not him usually.

    You make easy excuses for his behavior, but many when they get older, do rediscover their feelings, and they do feel regret. You act like all is well with just moving on--well no one really moves on until they work through what's going on.

    But I realize the socio. desn't give a fuck. FOr now. Wait till later, or even his deathbed.

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  6. This entire post has made things so clear to me. Now I fully see how we empaths and sociopaths view things differently... there is just no emotion there at all. At times, I was envious that you just move on and don’t have to feel this kind of pain because all of the lies, manipulations and betrayal can be awful. But then I remember watching the person that I cared for while, deep down, they suffered with that “emptiness”. I think I will be thankful to have to feel the pain rather than feel nothing at all. There would be no point in living a life without any real attachments, feelings and emotions. And now that I have been through this and now that I can see things with clarity, I will know when I am dealing a sociopath and I will know to get the F*** away so I won’t have this particular kind of pain in my life ever again.
    This quote right here showed me exactly how sociopaths think… just bland facts or what a “normal” person “should/would” say. Absolutely no actual or real emotion at all…it’s so clear to me now!
    Thank you!

    "with all of this said, i realize that pain is pain no matter what the cause, and you are an empath so you probably can't be expected to do better than you're doing, and i understand that sociopaths are very difficult to deal with and that you have probably suffered a lot of frustration over the past year with him. i hope that you are able to quickly find peace and wish you all the best in your time of grief."

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    1. I actually have a question for M.E. on this one. I am just now reading her book, and last year ended a relationship with a sociopath. M.E. is totally correct in that empaths, at least this one, really want to understand what was going on with the other person, once they find out that the person was not at all the individual they thought they knew. Sociopaths seem to create a mask for each person, but we empaths help them put it on. I think the part of my relationship that I truly want to understand is just how someone can choose to stay in a relationship with someone, pretending to genuinely like and love them, if just for money or other goods or things valuable to them. I can't imagine being with someone whose welfare I truly didn't care about on a daily basis, no matter what the benefit for me. I think the most shocking part of my breakup was that my sociopath wasn't just satisfied that he'd gotten what he wanted from me and could now throw me away - he went the extra 10 miles to spread lies about me, taunt me and do anything he could to continue tormenting me for months after. M.E., can you shed any light on the portion of the sociopathic brain that would gain pleasure from that? Thank you!

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  7. Reading this helps lift the pain that I've been feeling. Until a couple of days ago, I did not understand that my estranged boyfriend is a sociopath. Knowing that he is, and that he does not feel in the same manner that I do, lets me understand. I had attributed the ability to feel as an empath does, to him. I had interpreted his lack of passionate reaction to our break up as an indicator that he must have developed a deep hatred or loathing for me. Now, I understand that it is more of an indifference and without the passion that I was attributing to it. It feels better to know that I'm not passionately loathed.

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  8. If one can't look into him/herself after a failed relationship. No development and learning can be obtained. Sociopaths have this flaw. If nothing is ever their fault, they have no reason to learn from experience. I wasted 10 years of my life to a sociopath, I learnt their little games and techniques without even realising I was. I now can see what games are played and how she played them. All the fake tears, control tactics. There was no love, just control; they don't love in any form.
    They control and own. Simple! I own my car, when it gets boring or out-dated, falls apart. I will sell and get a new one. Sociopaths view their partners like this. Any sociopath on this forum that tries to tell me otherwise don’t, you simply don’t have the emotional portions of the brain to even comprehend love, let alone understand it. Love is what seen to you, not felt.
    I'd pick empathic life style over sociopathic any day. To not be able to bond to anything seems like a very empty pointless life. I guess this is why they look for amusement in mental abusing and playing games with people around them. Control!

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  9. I agree. The Socio's i've known are all delusionally full of themselves with a pile of excuses as to why they fail so dismally at having the strength to be a good friend, loyal family member, loving parent or responsible member of society. They claim intelligence yet learn nothing from mistakes. They claim they're elite..Baa.. theyre pathetic, selfish and weak. Fearless?? my tail they are.. theyre full of it. Sociopaths are just the biggest bunch of losers there is, trying to create a category they fit into that gains some semblance of worthiness. They have emotions just like everyone else, theyre just so shallow and brittle they scared shittless to admit it to themselves. Theyre the weakest, cheaters, the biggest losers of humanity. The sulky, selfish, brats who can't make the grade.. so make up a whole new category they can succeed at. A Socio's only gift, is that EVERYONE'S thrilled to get rid of the Loser. The Junk pile of humans. Sociopaths are INFERIOR humans. They FEEL just like everyone else.. The only difference..Everything is about them.. the sulky, lying, cheating, sly, vindictive pathetic little POOR ME.. baby of humanity. The cure for these HYPOCRITES lies in GROWING THE HELL UP! But as they NEVER analyse nor except responsibilty for what theyve done, feel no empathy for anyone else, yet DEMAND it for themselves (Who could swallow what a loser they actually are)
    its always..just blame everyone/thing else when the repulsive little twerps don't get theyre way, they never learn accountability nor grow up and out of Sociopathic tendancies. It's never about why they FAIL at behaving, it's always an excuse as to why they don't have to play by the rules. Easy.. because they can't WIN playing like everyone else. Enuf Said.. These idiots are like listening to a tantrum filled little miss, who killed her cat, blew up the house, failed at school irrelevant of extra help nobody else got, failed at marriage with the kindest spouse, lost everybodys invested money ( but claim theyre so great at business) ..ahh the list is endless.. But hey..they'll say..poor me.. it's not my fault ..'i'm special'. Yeh Socio's are special all right. Back of the bus.

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    1. Omg!!!That was an excellent descriptive post of my sociopath as well. He is the meanest person I ever met. (And, I still love the ba*strd)We broke up 2 months ago. I of course am sad about what 'could've been' and it's like I don't even exist to him. I bumped into his mom in the store and I got teary eyed when she asked "So, how are you doing?" Um.. Okay I said. How is he?? And, she filled me in on lots of lies I had been told since I met him. Especially, the lie about his dad NOT being dead. That's right, he told me his dad committed suicide. Anyway, after 2 months he sent me a text " Hey, this is me..You cried to my mom?? LMFAO... How's that for a loving caring partner!! So,mean..

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    2. I have just come across this site having had an epiphany several months ago that I have a person in my life who fits the description of a sociopath perfectly. I experienced it in various ways over the years (I work with this person) but more fully in February of this year during a dinner when the person in question behaved so abominably that it absolutely took my breath away. There have been plenty of other incidents over the years as well, just shocking displays of lack of care with everyone around him. Reading the description of a sociopath made me realise however that it is a waste to expand any emotion in trying to figure out why this person reacts the way he does. There simply is no capability to react in a normal human fashion and the sooner everyone realises this when faced with a person of this nature, the better. I have spent countless hours trying to figure out if I was to blame, if I should behave differently; so reading all of this is a true eye opener. The best way to deal with a sociopath, whether in private or business, is to remove any emotional attachment whatsoever and simply realise that they are incapable of what everyone else would refer to as 'normal human reactions'.

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    3. I have just come across this now and realise that my response is about 4 years later... But I have done a lot of reading on the topic of sociopaths, having had an epiphany earlier this year that a person in my life shows every trait of a sociopath. I am not in an emotional relationship with this person, but a business one and have come to realise that I need to limit my exposure to this person as much as possible and 'get out' of any interaction. I have known this person for over 15 years and while I was under 'his thumb' professionally speaking all was well. My first glimpse of his sociopathic tendencies came when he told me that the way to manage people was to 'make sure that they are dependent on you'. It took me a while to put it all together and many many many additional incidents happened since then. But the biggest revelation happened earlier this year during what was meant to be a courteous casual business dinner between him and I on a two day business trip. He was dealing with some private potential health problems at the time and let me just say, the behaviour I witnessed at this dinner was the most abominable behaviour I have ever witnessed in a human being. What was most striking was that he actually tried to blame me in the end and make it seem as if I had provoked his behaviour. I have in private settings witnessed him saying the most atrocious things about other people, calling his wife an 'fxxx twit' (luckily she did not hear it) and the list goes on.
      I have spent countless hours trying to figure out in the past if there was anything that I had done, anything that I was to blame for... once I realised that I am dealing with a sociopath, a lot of this fell away and I realized that I am simply dealing with someone who does not have what I and many others refer to as 'normal human reactions'. All he is concerned with is his own self-preservation, irrespective of what is going on in other people's lives. I have therefore changed my perception of him, and have removed any emotion from my reactions. Whenever he now says or does something that I find shocking, I am able to just put it aside as simply the response of someone who is slightly disturbed.

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  10. It would have been great to discover this anonymous blog site years ago. (Laughs)

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  11. Yep, it would have helped a lot of us!

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  12. You don't understand what grief and relationship loss means to an empath any more than we can see into your world. No, you are not higher on the evolutionary scale. You are merely incapable of feeling emotion. I see no use for a creature void of emotion in this world. Nor would I want to. We are here on this journey to grow, spiritually, and that is accomplished only with love and emotion for one another. What is the reason for being here without it? What motivates the will to even live in a void person? What's their point?

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  13. wow there seems to be a lot of bitter empaths here lord quit crying and man up I bet all of your ex's werent even sociopaths at all your just looking for reasons why someone wouldnt give a shit about leaving you. maybe because you were an annoying,needy crybaby and anyone would be glad to be free of that! YOU couldnt be the problem it must be that your ex is mental bahaha! its laughable. But whatever you have to do to sleep at night I suppose.

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  14. Empaths learn from their mistakes,socios don't. That's why we investigate the whys and how's. Is it evolution or do sociopaths just have quick minds? Mine did, it's one of the things I loved about him.I also witnessed when his mind was on overload it was crazy the things he thought of in that state. If sociopaths do mourn the failure why do they return to their victims wouldn't they consider the relationship dead? Can they actually find a person they would want and love sorta like their the ones being duped. I think it's possible. I've read some have varying of sociopathy. Anything is possible. Maybe they just fast forward the pain. Maybe they don't have empathy because they know there is nothing they can do about it. Their numb.

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  15. Interesting read. Also interesting as a sociopath, you fail to realize how screwed up your view of things is -- you are the 1.6% MINORITY in feeling, so the 'reactionary empath' hate to tell you is the societal norm -- sociopaths are the devolved creatures. Get yourself some help and stop trying to make 'normal' people feel inferior -- one of the sociopaths best games.

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  17. As an empath and someone with Borderline Personality Disorder (and therefore someone who is well acquainted with intense emotions), I find your view to be fascinating. Looking for the meaning in everything might cause emotional pain, but it also causes a deep joy for me. I'm able to "see into" people in a way that allows me to identify what words or actions will improve their mood or soothe any pain that they're feeling.

    I'm seeing how sociopaths do not understand emotions in relation to other people. They definitely seem to feel emotion, but not by understanding other people's emotions. That's interesting... Empaths just have an entirely different way of relating to each other. When I see the expression on another person's face, my mind identified how that person is feeling and my bodily sensations change so that I'm feeling the same thing that they are.

    Sociopaths seem to think that emotion is weakness. At least, that is the impression I have gained from the sociopaths in my past. But, they also seem so afraid of their own emotions sometimes. Like, they cannot handle experiencing them, so they instantly do away with anyone or anything which triggers them negatively, even if it has repercussions in the long run.

    This is all just personal speculation though because you've got me thinking.

    I have a question for someone who is a sociopath. Can you identify the emotion behind the text someone has typed? Like mine, for instance? Can you tell what I may have been feeling while writing the first paragraph?
    I'm seeing how sociopaths do not understand emotions in relation to other people. They definitely seem to feel emotion, but not by understanding other people's emotions. That's interesting... Empaths just have an entirely different way of relating to each other. When I see the expression on another person's face, my mind identified how that person is feeling and my bodily sensations change so that I'm feeling the same thing that they are.

    Sociopaths seem to think that emotion is weakness. At least, that is the impression I have gained from the sociopaths in my past. But, they also seem so afraid of their own emotions sometimes. Like, they cannot handle experiencing them, so they instantly do away with anyone which triggers them negatively, even if it has repercussions to the relationship in the long run.

    This is all just personal speculation because you've got me thinking.

    I have a question for someone who is a sociopath. Can you identify the emotion behind the text someone has typed? Like mind, for instance? Can you tell what I may have been feeling while writing the first paragraph?

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    1. My apologies for the double post.

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  18. I definitely understand one this person cheated on me I didn’t care but one of my friends asked me who called my cell n I told them they liked wanted to freak I still don’t really understand why they were so mad its not like they were in the relationship n asked them what would they so n they said tell them this n then she got mad n then I got to have fun because I started an argument n i was laughing my ass off when i told her she was really fat n ugly cause they were her insecurities n then she stopped talking to me it was so funny I really get enjoyment when people cry its just hilarious they were all wondering why I wasn’t sad n I didn’t really understand but i tried to act like I was shortly after that they said they thought i just was grieving in a weird was lol what ever stupid empaths

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  19. The reply is a perfect example of a sociopath's inability to grasp personal responsibility. It shows clear aggression towards the person asking the question and even uses "empathy" in the most condescending and blame-shifting way possible. It's kind of completely ridiculous.

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  24. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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  25. This entry was insightful but the perspective is quite one-sided. It's interesting to see how the writer immediately sets the blame on the empath. True enough, it is damaging to ruminate over past pain. Sadly, the writer doesn't consider the deeper pain that emapths are often left feeling after falling for a socipath. All the lies, manipulation and gaslighting can cause deeper pain/disfuntion.

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