Here's a comment from a reader about the value of professional psychological diagnoses:
As you have diagnosed yourself as such I am not too worried however much your attempts at diagnoses you should have already figured out diagnoses are there for the pathetic people who cant understand what these things are. So they make up these diagnoses and things that should be corrected but if you think about it there is a DSM but no manual for whats normal no manual to counter it. Normalcy is what is socially acceptable and what is "Right" to these people. However there is no real right and no real wrong the only right there is is what us as an individual decide is best for ourselves. There maybe sociopaths in psychology but in reality its just another type of person their is no real disorder its a way of being.
I agree. Some people comment on this blog saying things like "sociopaths would never do/say x," which i figure are probably just arguments over semantics. For instance, one writer described the confusion over the terms sociopath and psychopath thusly:
Without getting into the politics surrounding the different diagnostic systems, people who were unaware of the need for precision and accuracy for research and assessment adopted a preference for using either ‘psychopath’ or ‘sociopath’ and came up with their own workable definitions. In other words, things got a little sloppy. I’ve even seen professionals use the term 'sociopath' but rely on the criteria specific to the concept of a psychopath. However, for researchers in psychopathy, ‘sociopath’ has a different connotation.
Which brings me back to the original question: the difference between a psychopath and sociopath. If you subscribe to the Hare criteria for a psychopath, then you see the conning, manipulative narcissistic liar and user as a psychopath, as long as he or she is completely lacking in remorse or empathy. The sociopath, however, is capable of guilt, caring, building relationships, etc., but only within a certain context. He or she will have loyalties to a specific group but not to society at large. They care nothing for social norms and will break them with impunity if it serves their purpose. So, on the surface, they may resemble psychopaths. However, they might genuinely feel remorse over harming someone within their group or family. They will have a moral code specific to that context: they might not lie, exploit, or manipulate within the group. Thus, they exhibit psychopathic behaviors in certain contexts but not all.
If these distinctions are accurate then maybe I am more sociopath, not psychopath. Or maybe we follow the DSM and say i have APD. Or maybe I'm a malignant narcissist? The labels are fuzzy, and ultimately they don't matter. I am who I am. I think what I think, feel what I feel, do what I do. I know I'm not typical. I don't care to debate the nuances of particular definitions or diagnoses, I just want people to know that they live in a world with people like me.
Here's a comment from a reader about the value of professional psychological diagnoses:
Haha.
ReplyDeleteLabels are nothing more than ways of manipulating the human psych with action and response simplicity.
And the fact I complicated that statement did not help the poetic-appeal I was going for.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Sociopath (diagnosed) and the description here could have been written about me.
ReplyDeleteI am a mental health nurse and an empath(for the purpose of labelling).
ReplyDeleteI like a few psychiatrists I know DESPISE diagnoses in all areas of mental health.
I reject the DSM for on one hand over complicating diagnoses and sub divisions. On the other over simplifying when they clearly don't understand shit.
To have changed psychopathy to A.P.D to avoid offending those experiencing psychosis is to patronise anyone with remote intelligence.
I have worked with Antisocial P.D and it aint psychopathy. If narcissism is a character disorder then why not the rest of the cluster B disorders!!!!!.
I hate labelling whether it's Schizophrenic or Sociopath. I argue every day at work...we are treating symptomolgy not diagnosis.
In the U.K they are obsessed with the concept of personalisation yet run to the DSM as much as the MIMS or BNF.
I watch misdiagnosis every day. I could get myself diagnosed with anything.
I proved this by attending various private Psych's and got diagnoses from bi polar to cluster A,B and C. I'd never fake psychosis, I'm not that smart.
Anyway...we all have symptoms and traits. What should concern us re ourselves and others is which symptoms(in ourselves and others) hinder us or help us. Which need treated/addressed/tackled. Which need nurtured.
I am one of the biggest empathetic, concience burdened individual's I know. Yet I have spent enought time professionally and personally around those with minimal or nil concience, empathy and ''normal'' emotions.
If I used certain antidepressants, betablockers etc. I could fake being without empathy and concience and act on that. I prob couldn't fool a smart sociopath. I have however fooled a(thinks he is smart)narcissist. I knew what I had to do and he well deserved it but my empath traits got in the way. I blunted them with an SSRI and beat him at his own game.
I don't think I'm clever I just needed to do what I needed to do.
I have used diagnosis several times here as it makes it simpler for me and the reader. I think it's imperative to understand each individual's traits but a waste of energy to focus on diagnosis.
@ jane doh
ReplyDeleteEducational post, thank you.
Don't go to Vegas old women. screwed yourself. Gotcha by your own hand. Thanks.
DeleteVery interesting. I definitely fit the criteria of a sociopath according to this post. These two terms are confusing in means of their similarities and differences. Some people say they are the same thing, there are about 1000 (or more) unofficial "definitions", this one I agree with the most for sure.
ReplyDeletelabels for the most part are guidelines. As a Sociopath growing up i could never figure out why i was always "bad" or "wrong" but looking back now i like to think i never was i would like to think that i just didnt fit in with the social "norm".
ReplyDeleteAs i grew through my 20s life always seemed just a little wrong just a little of and that i could never get it quite "right" then i was assest and diagnosed! With the label came clarity! i found it very helpful! i no longer am the round peg trying to fit in the square hole i am the round peg that has found his piece and now slides nicely into the round hole! in others words i stopped fighting the world and started looking at it differently!
Perhaps it's my fascinations in philosophy that leads me to say this, but labels when properly defined are profoundly important and powerful.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with psychiatric labels is that hardly anyone fits them perfectly and a lot of them are defined by presumptuous bigots who do shoddy research with tainted samples and have a variety of mental disorders of their own.
Dr. Robert Hare and Dr. Sam Vaknin, I'm thinking of you, let that stroke your egos for a moment by reinforcing your sense of importance, if you stumble across this while googling your names you Narcissists. :3
Sam was diagnosed a psychopath in the docu," I, psycho". Hare is probably a sub-clinical psycho as well. What better way to assess a psycho, than by being one?
ReplyDeleteIt takes a con-artist to spot another on-artist :p
I like that definition. The only other I ever came across is that a Psychopath is born, while a Sociopath is made.
ReplyDeleteHi, this is my first time commenting. *waves*
ReplyDeleteI always thought that I had sociopathic tendencies but I wasn't a full-blown sociopath. But reading this made me feel like it might be more than just a tendency, maybe I am a sociopath... I'd like to read more about this. Do you know about any other articles? If you do, please email them to me: turnaember@yahoo.com
seeing as nobody can give an accurate definiton of the diffraces between a sociopath and a psycopath, why not label them both as the same thing? they seem so simalar people can not tell the diffrances, so prehaps there are no real diffrances? that would be a lot less complacated than the various systems for defenition that are used today. but i would argue narcissists are diffrent enough to be excluded from this label.
ReplyDeleteThat is very incorrect. There are HUGE differences between a psychopath & sociopath. Mainly the ability to feel guilt.
DeleteMy step-son is a psychopath. He uses people until either he no longer needs them, or until they wise up & walk away. He feels absolutely no guilt about that. The only thing he feels is anger & frustration because now he has to find a new target. The only person he cares about is himself. If you don't give him what he wants then he has no use for you in his life. For him, there is no distinction between his own parents & a perfect stranger... he'll lie to us the same, steal from us the same, etc. He does not care at all as long as he gets what he wants out of the interaction.
He is also a pathological liar, most sociopaths are not. They lie when they feel it's necessary, he lies for no reason at all. Almost every single thing that comes out of his mouth is a lie. It is so stupid because it is often obvious that he is lying, he lies about things that are easily debunked. For example he told his friends last month that his grandfather died. I believe he did it for the sympathy, because he loves to be the center of attn & to know that he has successfully manipulated someone. He gets satisfaction out of it. One of his friends called us to offer their condolences. I had no idea what he was talking about. My step-son's maternal grandfather had scheduled heart surgery, but he most definitely didn't die. A sociopath wouldn't typically do something like that.
The problem here is not that there aren't real differences between a psychopath & a sociopath. The problem is that people are uneducated on the two & often get them confused.
what about narcistic psycopaths?
ReplyDeleteSo I don't really get the need for a label...as long as you know yourself why should it matter what others might categorize you as? If you try using a label to help you learn about yourself won't you just be risking turning your whole personality into a lie? This honestly confuses me so please don't insult me for it. Also since for some reason people tend to question others reasons for commenting in places like this I just wound up on this site because of my curiosity after being told that my "messed up" morals could be a sign of being a sociopath. I don't actually care if he was right but the subject is really interesting to me even if it can be a bit confusing.
ReplyDeleteWell, it would seem I am a psychopath if these definitions are correct. Always thought I was a sociopath, but no, I don't actually have links with other humans beyond the superficial desire for food and sex, so that snuffs sociopathy.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I am narcissistic, I pathologically lie (almost rediculosly so) and I don't regret hurting and killing.
As for being labeled, I love using my psychopathy as a 'grand revelation', to get a girl to believe they are my one confide.
From what you've written here I believe your conclusion is acurate. You are most definitely a psychopath.
DeleteThe best I could tell with all my research is similar, but with more criteria. A psychopath lives outside perfect reality, basically slightly more insane while a sociopath is more calculating and aware of who/what they are.
ReplyDeletei like to fart alot does that make me a fartopath
ReplyDeletePsychological labels have been incredibly useful in my life. My father had always said I won't care and anything but I need to start to, even though I was caring as much as I could. The pressure for me to "care more" was taken off when I was labeled a sociopath. It's not that I won't or don't care. It's more that I can't. It's a simple way to describe an aspects or several aspects of a person. It's not the person as a whole but it give others, who generally cannot understand a base line to use. Something to foll back on and say "Thats why."
ReplyDeleteReading this, I identify thoroughly with the 'sociopath' label. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. My viewpoint is that of Robert Hare, a leading researching on the subject of psychopathy, and creator of the Hare Psychopathy Checklist.
ReplyDeleteASPD is a relatively useless DSM diagnosis. It focuses on outward, observable behavior, and spots "failed psychopaths" who have committed crimes and been caught.
Psychopathy, however, is a syndrome focusing on internal traits. These include cunning and manipulative behaviors, lack of remorse, shallow emotions, externalization of blame, impulsivity, boredom proneness, and an irresponsible and parasitic lifestyle.
Sociopathy and psychopathy are interchangeable terms. People who use the term "sociopath" often believe the origins of the conditions are environmental. People who use the term "psychopathy" tend to believe that the cause is intrapsychic or attachment-based (psychoanalysts) and/or believe the condition is predominately biologically-based. Hare believes psychopathy is biologically based, a matter of nature, not nurture.
Lack of remorse - check
ReplyDeleteShallow emotions - check (except for anger)
Externalization of blame - check
Impulsivity - check (but only with regard to eating junk food, and I think I figured out a secret to fixing that)
Boredome proneness - check
Irresponsible and parasitic lifestyle - check (I've had over 40 different jobs.)
However...
Cunning and manipulative behaviors - this is where I'm not sure I fit. I have "people skills." I'm a great listener. But I never use them to take advantage. Instead I use them to keep people at a polite distance and avoid being taken advantage of.
I really hate people, so I just don't want to interact. When I have to interact, I try to make it as pleasant as possible until it can be over and I can be alone again.
I have only a very few aquaintances who I kinda like. I think they consider themselves my friends but I don't consider myself theirs. It's a very out-of-sight-out-of-mind kinda thing. If I hang out with them It's cool. But if I never hung out with them agian I wouldn't care.
Sometimes I feel like I should try to be more manipulative, like I should try to target somebody and see what I can get out of them. I'd probably actually be good at it, and I'd certainly have a lot more money if I did.
But then I think about what a hassle it would be and how much time I'd have to spend interacting with them to make it happen, and how much I would resent that, and it's just not worth it.
You can't very well say the label "sociopath" doesn't matter when you are selling T shirts with that label on it.
ReplyDelete