Friday, July 3, 2009

Prototypes and archetypes (part 3)

I know some of you hate email exchanges with empaths, but I don't care. They're interesting because they force you to see yourself through someone else's eyes, and that is always enlightening. My responses are in bold:
I can't thank you enough for putting your time and energy into giving me your insight, that is really an incredibly selfless and generous thing for you to do, to really take an interest in people and their problems - just thank you, thank you, thank you. A couple other things that strike me as contradictions - if i would ask him in front on his friends if he needed something, like a soda, he would get mad at me and tell me i baby him, but then on another occasion he would fight and ask me why i never yell at him to whip into shape, like tell him he's being irresponsible and he shouldnt go to the bar but instead stay home to study for a test. I would tell him that it wasnt my job to do that, that that seems more like treating him like a baby than anything else. If he is a sociopath, why would he ask to be "controlled" like that? consistent with my thought that he is conflicted, feels out of control himself, wants to stop feeling that way, so wants help from you to help him manage his behavior. Babying him could make him feel even more out of control/vulnerable. It's fine for him to admit himself that he has issues and needs help. It's not fine for you to suggest independently that he is needy and out of control because it freaks him out even more--headtrips him.

Also, one time I asked for a kiss (not that I had to ask everytime, ha, just that he wasn't easily accesible at that moment) and he said "why would you ask? thats why youre so weak and have no power in this relationship, if you want a kiss, just take a kiss" - again, isnt that giving up control? He wants you to be strong, take what you want from him when you want it so he can pretend that you are a strong person that is with him because you want to be, not because you are needy, weak-willed, or feel somehow pressured to be. If you don't act that way, then it is just another reminder to him that he will destroy you eventually, and that you are an unwilling victim. Harder for him to justify being with you then.

(Maybe those are stupid examples, but they just popped into my head). He's said that something about me, without me even doing anything, just makes him become irritable and in a bad mood, like he can feel his blood start to boil, but im the only one that does that to him he doesnt treat anyone else like that. one time i came over to see him and he was in one of his moods and he said that he didnt know why, he wasnt angry before i got there, and when i leave he knows that he'll be mad at himself and all he'll want to do is be around me, that he doesnt want to be mean to me but he can't control it, but then if i left to let him cool off he would beg me to come back and would be loving and apologetic. And i guess you mentioned something like that in your letter, but can there be a specific person that makes your blood boil sometimes for no reason, but other times theyre the only person you like and need? And do you therefore resent them for the anger they make you feel and the moods they put you in? He's conflicted. I realize I keep saying that, but it's true. He's frustrated. You are both what he wants and a reminder of his deficiencies. You represent an itch he can't scratch, a thirst he can't quench. And you probably make it to easy for him to be bad, and get too hurt when he does. He resents you for both of those things.

My ex really does seem more content without me now, like he just doesnt miss me, doesnt really even want to talk to me or be friends. I know a lot of people feel that way when they end a relationship, but i guess its just so odd to me because after 2 years of back and forth, this one is most definitely final, and it seemed like without provocation from me, because we didnt even talk for a month, it very quickly turned into a true dislike for me and our relationship. It's probably not a dislike for you, per se. If I realize that a relationship isn't working out, it's driving me crazy because I can't be better, I'm always being bad, and it's hurting the other person -- so I'll just end it suddenly like that. Better for the both of us. It's not that I hate that person, although part of me blames them for not being able to help me out, pull their fair share of the load in the always fraught with difficulty sociopath/empath relationship. It feels like a double drowning. Can you really fault someone (empath) for freaking out while they're drowning and taking you down with them when you are trying to help keep them afloat? No, not really. That's just the nature of someone who is drowning. It would be like getting mad at a bee for stinging you. But can you blame that person for your own drowning? Yes, they certainly were the cause, weren't they, even if they couldn't help themselves. Double drowning victims just physically freak out and start clawing for survival. It's a natural survival instinct. People emotionally freak out in a failing relationship. It's just a survival instinct, but it's often not at all productive. When it starts happening, the best thing both people can do is to completely get away from each other. These things end in murder suicides.

This latest string of events leading to the breakup - wanting or needing to talk to me every single day while i was gone, visiting me, saying it was the best time he's ever had, that we have so much fun together, that he truly loved me, then abruptly breaking up with me a week after i got home, (the day after he said he wished he never said anything, he would have been happy to just to keep "trying" to make himself love me because he wanted me in his life, asking me if we could still be friends) to then never really needing or wanting to talk to me again, and now says that those 2 years were not particularly fun for him. Does it come that easy to a sociopath to just stop feeling good thoughts about a person and to have a genuine dislike for someone they once really "loved", or do you think maybe i am just trying to attribute what could be just a normal reaction of a person after they break up with someone, into something much deeper? He wanted to love you a certain way and he couldn't. Now it sounds like he is trying to blame you for not being loveable rather than blaming himself for not being able to love. The latter is the real truth, not the former. He may never acknowledge this in his lifetime, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I remember something else he said this last time we talked and i had made him feel badly about himself. He said something about how hard it is for him to rationalize what he does and how he acts when he's around me. he said that i am the only person that makes him feel like he's a bad person, and he hates that (although except for this one time that i actually came right out and said it, i've never tried to guilt him into feeling badly about himself or tell him he should feel bad about who he is), but he also agrees that i know him and his underlying feelings better than anyone. Right, he knows what is going on, in his heart of hearts. He just isn't willing to face the music right now. He's self-deceived, thinks he is great and worries he is a monster. Really both are true, but he just can't reconcile them in his mind right now, can't accept reality.
He said that he hasn't felt badly about himself and who he is in a month (since we last hung out) and he's felt great, and that he doesnt want to sink back into feeling how he was when he was with me. Yeah, I've felt this way about people. Think about it this way: certain people bring out the worst in you. Sometimes it is because they are a bad person, but other times it is because they expect too much of you. You try to be there for them, but you can't. You're constantly confronted with your failure. If you worked at a job where you sucked but no one ever fired you, would you quit? Or would you keep yourself and everyone else in misery and just keep trying?

I could understand if i made him feel bad by telling him what he did wrong all the time or putting him down, but i was really always supportive and encouraging to him, which he even got angry at at times. Is it plausible to think that its easier for him to ignore these conflicting feelings he has of himself when im not around, and has maybe transfered that into a genuine disdain for me and our relationship? Or again, am i grasping at straws here? No, you're right, it's easier to ignore his own inadequacies when you're not there reminding him of them. Like deadbeat dads who not only don't pony up the child support, they stop seeing their children because they are ashamed and the children are a constant reminder of that shame.


  1. I knew a pretty, nice, studious preachers daughter back in high school. But she didn’t want more than a friendship with me. Instead, she choose a knuckle dragging football lineman bad boy. As her “brother buddy”, she’d confide in me how upset she was with his incorrigible need to get into drunken brawls every Friday night, and mistreat her most of the other days. I’d listen to this crap because I needed to understand why good girls liked bad boys. When she finally realized she could never change boy-ape, she broke up with him. But she (and prospective boyfriends) got the inevitable harassment, stalking, and beatings. She eventually had to leave the state, and fortunately for her, boy-ape died in a drunk driving accident. She wound up marrying a big, but dorky accounting dweeb, who had enough smarts to give her the lifestyle she apparently wanted.

    I guess my point, is that in hindsight, she wanted to have her cake and eat it too – have a dominant alpha male who was also under her complete control. She settled for an alpha dweeb, but gets to drive a nice car, so I guess she’s happy.

    It’s obvious common sense that partners would do best pairing up with a complement with whom they share responsibility and control based on specific areas of competence and expertise (pooling diversified resources into sums greater than the whole), as well as all the physical and emotional needs. But try telling that to these nice girls.

    I still gain pleasure watching public figures bashing their heads on the bad boy wall. Like Pamela Anderson. Even the quasi-dweebish Lisa Ling. I saw “The View” (while home sick I’m not a regular, alright Joy Behar is one hot old MILF broad but that’s my business back to the point assholes), proclaiming to the womans world that she preferred bad boys because of “the challenge”. Today, her sister is being held captive by one of the biggest little bad boys on the planet. Hope she has fun with her new challenge. Idiot.

  2. I tried to understand women once too, Nimbus. It only took a while for me to figure out that vinegar eye rinses were more enjoyable.

    A conversation from American Psycho sums it up quite nicely.

    "McDermott, Van Patten and Bateman are
    having drinks. Price walks by with a gorgeous girl and
    gives them the finger.

    What an asshole.

    Why is Laurie Kennedy dating Price? He's a
    fucking drug addict. No self-control.

    But Laurie Kennedy is a total hardbody. What do
    you think, Bateman?

    I know her. I knew her.

    Why do you say it like that? Why does he say it
    like that?

    Because he dated her.

    How did you guess?

    Girls dig Bateman. He's CQ. You're total CQ,

    Thanks, guy, but...she's got a lousy

    So what? It's all looks. Laurie Kennedy is a
    babe. Don't even pretend you were interested for any other

    If they have a good personality, then something
    is very wrong.

    If they have a good personality and they are not
    great looking-who fucking cares?

    Well, let's just say hypothetically, okay? What if
    they have a good personality?
    (He smiles giving up)
    I know, I know-

    There are no girls with good personalities!
    (They laugh and high-five each other)

    A good personality consists of a chick with a
    little hardbody who will satisfy all sexual demands without
    being too slutty about things and who will essentially keep
    her dumb fucking mouth

    Listen, the only girls with good personalities who are
    smart or maybe funny or halfway intelligent or even
    talented-though God knows what the fuck that means-are ugly


    And this is because they have to make up for how
    fucking unattractive they are."

  3. Thunderball, what i really want to know is how exactly you remembered those lines word for word?? lol :)

  4. OTOH, I know an engaging but asshole narcissist male who’s been married to a vindictive machiavellian emotional flatliner female for a long time. To a casual observer, they’re a successful power couple, good parents, and good community members. If you’re more inside, you’ll find stories of affairs (about both), and many people they’ve worked or played with who’ll label them as “scary”, with plausible evidence. She’s fit, but not what I’d call sexy. He’s aggressive, but not smart enough to advance in his career. Yet they stay together. They’ve successfully married their self-interest? There’s a balance of power? They’re afraid of divorcing each other? I’d love to figure that one out.

  5. Thunderball, you can express yourself by plagiarizing authors, it wasn't even a good book. Still, better than having no expression at all.

    I'm in a bad mood and wish I could insult you, but you seem to do all the work yourself.

    A small minded dependent creep? A worthless abortion? They don't seem to sum you up, Insignificant gives you too much respect.

    Oh well, I'll bother with it some other time.

  6. "They’ve successfully married their self-interest? There’s a balance of power? They’re afraid of divorcing each other? I’d love to figure that one out."

    Yes, yes and yes. They fear cutting the ties of of co-dependency.

  7. "Thunderball, you can express yourself by plagiarizing authors"

    I can? Thanks!

    "I'm in a bad mood and wish I could insult you, but you seem to do all the work yourself."

    Aww, too bad. Jesus still loves you.

    "A small minded dependent creep? A worthless abortion? They don't seem to sum you up, Insignificant gives you too much respect."

    I would probably be offended if you said I was a nice and didn't come across a creep. I project this persona for a reason. But I will take a complement when I can. Thanks!

  8. i know some of you hate email exchanges with empaths, but i don't care. they're interesting because they force you to see yourself through someone else's eyes, and that is always enlightening. my responses are in bold:
    This is as far as I got:

    I can't thank you enough for putting your time and energy into giving me your insight, that is really an incredibly selfless and generous thing for you to do, to really take an interest in people and their problems - just thank you, thank you, thank you. A couple other things that strike me as contradictions

    Beyond that, I couldn't even read this post. Normally, i am all for listening to an empathic perspective, because they are insightful, but the idiocy of this person to call a sociopath they're writing selfless obviously shows this post to be a waste of time unless it changes authorsa. they are clearly confused and will never ever in their life comprehend just how unemotionally invested ME is in their problems. Does he/she not realise that the only reason anyone comes to these posts is for the personal psychological fulfillment? Or to be filled in as to why such and such a sociopath can act so cold. Some of these empaths have glimpses of understanding, and I am all for telling them answers to their questions, but when they start out "Thanks for being so selfless" the answers to their questions will clearly be filtered through rose colored glasses and be used to further damage this persons perspective on reality. To farther skew it, to say the least.

  9. Thunderball you entertain me. It's so much fun to see people get all worked up over you, not knowing that they're feeding you, completely. That they're insults are laughable because they're only being manipulated by you to hate them... And they still try. How do they not see it? You practically tell them. It amuses me greatly.

  10. Yeah, I got just about as far.

    Dumb shit.


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