Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Lie to me

I've finally gotten around to watching the television drama "Lie to Me," where they detect lies by reading microexpressions. It's sort of making me nervous. I realize that like all fictional depictions of science, the good guys are going to have a success rate of almost always, when in real life the accuracy of these methods is not nearly as high. Still, I'm worried. When I say I fake emotions well, I mean well enough to get by in a world where people assume that I am having normal emotions and/or don't care. My skills are not good enough to withstand this sort of close scrutiny.

The show also portrays the struggle that occurs when one person can intuit things about another person that that person doesn't want to be known. First, it's hard to be the one intuiting, to look the other way, to pretend you don't see what is happening, or to be presented with the temptation of using that information for your own gain and to not yield to that temptation. Second, it is hard for the person being read to not conceal their secrets, to not be able to control how the reader sees them, and to feel constantly vulnerable around another person because they can read you and you can't even fathom them. This is sort of an interesting dynamic that most people here are familiar with, but rarely gets represented in entertainment media.

And the show does make you more aware of different means of deception, which will always be relevant if you ever interact with anyone.

52 comments:

  1. the posts are still getting shittyer and shittyer...

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  2. He's got almost 500 posts. It's bound to happen sometime.

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  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  4. Oh wow.

    Normal people amaze me.

    It's like... They get over sociopaths in their lives by making it out to be positive and it almost caricatures the sociopath as an ironic hero.

    It finally hit me, after reading all these "my bf was a socio, i met a socio, there was a socio in my backyard, etc." stories.

    Seriously. What the hell is wrong with you people?

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  5. I found a socio in my storage room today and I was not happy, at first. Then he punched me in the face and it turns out that had none of that happened, I.... ah fuck it.

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  6. What's wrong with me? I went through some shit and then I went on with my life. You know, like normal people do, you big hero.

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  7. After a few minutes of thought - sure, the sociopath is a hero.

    Why not? Who cares? Just like a rapist or a schoolyard fight or a friggin' typhoon. Any situation in life that makes you stronger becomes a "hero", if you want to think of it that way. I mean, I personally think the semantics are slightly off, but okay.

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  8. Your standard of a man is someone who will abandon you. You seek them out with the attitude you have. The expectation you have of people delivers what you expect. You believe lies so easily because you lie to yourself so much. Youre a creature of habit, and even worse you have habits. You lived life in a altered blur, and dependent on artificial substances and artificial people. Now you think this wall you've built is a gift left to you by your ex, really its a curse left by your family abandoning you in the first place.
    2 they date low level sociopaths that are clever, but unintelligent. These sociopaths feed off their emotional dependency and keeps them for their personal growth or to parasite from them while they do what they want.
    Did you know that you victims share traits of sociopaths? The capacity to lie to yourself so well that you think the lie is real, and the tendency to put yourself in adverse situations on purpose.

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  9. Yes. You are right. You are very smart and you've totally nailed me. You're like Dexter or like a serial killer that is smart and shit.

    Sincere thanks again to the blog owner. Later, nerds.

    - Kyria

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  10. lol Kyria

    yeah, this ukancel guy is an idiot

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  11. Its easy to be a critic, anonymous, when you have no purpose. It must be simple to be you.

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  12. UKan, that was seriously your worst attempt yet. I didn't even finish your comment, just skipped straight to the next one. Can't win 'em all, though.

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  13. Do you have a opinion anonymous or are you just invoking my name to get some attention?

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  14. Kyria knows. She's turned her past into a tragic comedy so she can cope with it. She was so held back that when she broke free she chose to be a deviant. She's learned to cope but not to let go.

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  15. Kyria is just sharing.
    You, ukantcel/ukanandarecrap, are just some lame piece of junk ... a fool with no real information about anything

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  16. "Oh wow.

    Normal people amaze me.

    It's like... They get over sociopaths in their lives by making it out to be positive and it almost caricatures the sociopath as an ironic hero.

    It finally hit me, after reading all these "my bf was a socio, i met a socio, there was a socio in my backyard, etc." stories.

    Seriously. What the hell is wrong with you people?"


    What is wrong is that we have to deal with you pieces of crap demonfolk.... the best way to deal with the worst, is by seeing the best and bright side out of it... even if that is relatively little.. which is the case with you junk people

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  17. You have taught me, anon, how little you can say with as many words as possible. If you want some attention just say something. I would love to hear what you have to say.

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  18. Hey faggots,

    I bet yall will love this sociopathic cartoon clip of Mark Twain's 'The Mysterious Stranger':

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqi5F5MqqTQ

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  19. In answer to the discussion above, I personally am interested in sociopaths because, generally, they are better at manipulating people than I am. Clearly, this is a valuable learned skill, and I would like to become better at it.

    Also, from what I remember, most lie-detecting methods fail on sociopaths, because they depend on heightened nervousness when someone is lying. From what I recall, sociopaths supposedly do not really care whether what they say is true or not, so they feel no anxiety that would be revealed through micro-expressions or whatever.

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  20. "you have taught me, anon, how little you can say with as many words as possible. If you want some attention just say something. I would love to hear what you have to say"

    idiot

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  21. So the name UKan is an attention grabber, is it? Could it be that its owner has worked so tirelessly to make it such? Come on, twat, stop projecting. I'm posting with an anonymous name, and you're clinging to this idiotic notion that anyone here cares who you are or what name you use. You're just some anonymous fool who wants to be recognized as something more than you really are. I can't say I blame you.

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  22. You type as anonymous, because what you say has no meaning. The irony is that you call me the anonymous fool.

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  23. Your standard of a man is someone who will abandon you. You seek them out with the attitude you have. The expectation you have of people delivers what you expect. "You believe lies so easily because you lie to yourself so much. Youre a creature of habit, and even worse you have habits. You lived life in a altered blur, and dependent on artificial substances and artificial people. Now you think this wall you've built is a gift left to you by your ex, really its a curse left by your family abandoning you in the first place."

    That is actually very profound. Id say the majority of women on the Lovefraud can secretly relate to that.

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  24. “That is actually very profound. Id say the majority of women on the Lovefraud can secretly relate to that.”

    They’d never admit it though. EVAR. They have too much righteous indignation invested to ever go there.

    Comic-Anonymous wrote: I found a socio in my storage room today and I was not happy, at first. Then he punched me in the face and it turns out that had none of that happened, I.... ah fuck it.

    LOL! Awesome.

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  25. "Anonymous said..
    What is wrong is that we have to deal with you pieces of crap demonfolk.... the best way to deal with the worst, is by seeing the best and bright side out of it... even if that is relatively little.. which is the case with you junk people"


    why is it that "normal" people demonize what they can't stand to face? you don't have to deal with anyone that you don't want to deal with, anonymous. but when you choose to deal with someone, then you are accountable for that choice, regardless of what is promised, not the other person.

    no one can promise to make it right for you, to be there forever, and make it all better. if you're looking for a partner to make up for past hurts, for all the wrongs you've endured, you're a sitting duck. If he or she promises that you'll ride off into the sunset together forever, it may be manipulation. But who is manipulating who? Were you seduced by their promises or were they seduced by your expectations? reading the various comments here, i sometimes wonder who the real sociopaths are.

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  26. I love that I provoked such angst.

    Oh, now to be polite ol' me and respond gentlemen-esqe (I was a bit out of character, what can I say?):

    Ukan:"2 they date low level sociopaths that are clever, but unintelligent. These sociopaths feed off their emotional dependency and keeps them for their personal growth or to parasite from them while they do what they want.
    Did you know that you victims share traits of sociopaths? The capacity to lie to yourself so well that you think the lie is real, and the tendency to put yourself in adverse situations on purpose."

    Oh hi there, Ukan.

    Your comment here is nice and I can't say I have much to debate about it. However, it arose a question: what do you think 'intelligent' sociopaths do to their victims? I mean, quite frankly, I'm sure 'intelligent' sociopaths also do this.

    Kyria: "Yes. You are right. You are very smart and you've totally nailed me. You're like Dexter or like a serial killer that is smart and shit.

    Sincere thanks again to the blog owner. Later, nerds."

    I hear the sound of a mental barricade being challenged and causing you to get indignant. Does anyone else ? ;)

    Anonymous: "What is wrong is that we have to deal with you pieces of crap demonfolk.... the best way to deal with the worst, is by seeing the best and bright side out of it... even if that is relatively little.. which is the case with you junk people"

    Yes, I can hear the southern accent already!

    Ok. Now onto what you've said...
    I'm not a demon, darlin'. Sure, I could be called that. But think about it for a minute: Why even call me that? You assume that I care, which is a fallacious assumption. Sure, 90% of the population cares, (even if they don't admit it) but sociopaths, generally speaking, don't.

    I hope you can learn from this. :)

    zpem1: "Hey faggots,

    I bet yall will love this sociopathic cartoon clip of Mark Twain's 'The Mysterious Stranger':"

    I actually like that video quite a bit. It's very elegant and poetic. Tickles my fancy, if you will.

    "“That is actually very profound. Id say the majority of women on the Lovefraud can secretly relate to that.”

    They’d never admit it though. EVAR. They have too much righteous indignation invested to ever go there."

    How do you make everything you say be so amazing? (Yes, I am flattering your ego.)

    And finally, last but not least, Zoe:

    I'm not entirely sure why you took that approach. I am guessing you did not intend to get through to the person in the front place...? They could learn the truth but they're willingly ignorant of it. (Not that I entirely agree with everything you've said, but that's besides the point.)

    Addendum: Kyria, thanks for deleting your comment. It made reading the comments slightly easier for me.

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  27. My less than 2 cents regarding my "victimization".

    In the past 3 months I went from "he's a fucking sociopath" to "hold on a second..." as I watch the image I painted on the mirror peel away layer by layer.

    I wonder, when Medusa finally sees herself reflected without all the facepaint and feigned moral indignation, does she herself turn to stone?

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  28. I recognize the difference between my team and everyone else, 2. I don't victimize the girl I have. Why use your talents to seduce people behind your girls back unless you have security to build? Why have a girl that you must keep your secrets from? If she's not about your cause than she's insignificiant and wasting space. Either she's a asset or she's a liability. Either she understands what you need to do to sustain the team or she's holding you back from achieving. Making someone close to you disloyal while she knows who you are is foolish. You can fuck birds every week if you want, are you not bored of that yet?

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  29. I sit down, close my eyes, and imagine a little girl, growing up shunned by the two people who are supposed to love her most. I see her crying out in her own mind, "Why?! Why me?! Why don't I deserve the love of my parents?!" Their reasons don't stand up to reason. She hasn't done anything wrong. There must be something deeply, terribly wrong with her... but she knows it isn't true! It can't be true! Her parents are victims of a disease masquerading as a religion, one they've been forcibly made to serve and propagate, ruining the lives of other little girls all around the world. And what a lonely world it is--a world that makes no sense but the sense she makes of it. Why doesn't she deserve their love?

    Why isn't she worthy?

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  30. I'm not entirely sure why you took that approach. I am guessing you did not intend to get through to the person in the front place...? They could learn the truth but they're willingly ignorant of it. (Not that I entirely agree with everything you've said, but that's besides the point.)

    just thoughts, without much thought to approach. it's possible for an empath to victimize a sociopath, and too easy to assume your victimizer is a sociopath just because they victimized you. how we perceive ourselves isn't always how we are or how the world perceives us. we can fool ourselves into believing we are whoever we need to be, with the right motivation. given all that, it's possible that some of the empaths here are sociopaths and don't know it - and vice versa.

    the point being, i guess, was to evoke a response from anonymous(es).

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  31. Hm. Interesting thoughts, Ukan.

    I'll do my long drawn out response spiel as always:

    Ukan: "I recognize the difference between my team and everyone else, 2. I don't victimize the girl I have."

    Interesting. Team is a strange word for me. I am a one-man team. Always have been. To each their own, I suppose.

    As for victimization: Eh. I don't victimize people that could mess up my facade. It's not worth the risk. I can always get someone else to play with, you know? I'm sure you do.

    Ukan:"Why use your talents to seduce people behind your girls back unless you have security to build?"

    I don't have a "girl". I know many girls that I have different levels of intimacy (lol) with, but not a girl that I feel any connection to what-so-ever.

    I noticed that being attached to someone is bad for me, even if the attachment involves someone I victimize. The last 'relationship' I had an attachment was, ironically, causing me depression. That, and some other factors. I was pretty much playing with a toy that was far past broken. I realized it one night and I just ended it with her.

    Ukan:"Why have a girl that you must keep your secrets from?"

    There's two girls I know. Both of them know me. They both have opposite reactions to "me", despite communicating with me on a daily basis.

    One of them trusts me and I don't think I've ever abused her. Manipulated, probably. Abused? No.

    It's an interesting thing, but again, I have no connection what-so-ever. It's almost eerie now that I think about it.

    Ukan:"If she's not about your cause than she's insignificiant and wasting space."

    I don't come into contact with people that I don't find important. What I mean is that I don't hold relationships that are insignificant. They all benefit me in some way. Some are subtle, some are obvious.

    Ukan: "You can fuck birds every week if you want, are you not bored of that yet?"

    Ah... Hmmm

    That's such a good question. I'm not really sure if you're being literal or metaphorical, but I'll just go ahead and admit that I have no need for sex.

    As for metaphorical. Well. Good question. I doubt I'll ever be tired of these acts I consider to be art. They're just... too elegant.

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  32. Peter, you're late.

    And, fair enough, Zoe.

    (I didn't see the two comments when I was writing my comment above.)

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  33. I wonder, when Medusa finally sees herself reflected without all the facepaint and feigned moral indignation, does she herself turn to stone?

    she becomes someone who sees through the b.s. of others too..

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  34. Late? That's hogwash. I was right on time. I'm always on time, which means you were early. You lot should really work on being more punctual.

    Besides, I needed to know how you folks would react to her. I don't feel like being argumentative today.

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  35. Peter, your deflection is as good as always. :) I'm glad your skills haven't corroded.

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  36. Deflection? What did I deflect? An accusation of being late to a blog post? You know, I must admit... I am good at that. I'm extremely good at it. You should be jealous.

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  37. 2 I understand where you are. I've been there too. I'm not saying I'm above or below you, because that is where you might want to stay. Its about preference at the end of the day.
    The team thing is amazing and I think you will miss out if you don't try it. Take your self centered attitude and apply it towards a group of people who are all about YOUR goals. Going further, take your team and make it a extension of yourself. Now you will do anything, and make your team do anything to survive and excel. I know its vague but I'm sure you get it. You have to learn how you can consciously trick your mind until you can through your subconscious. Learn how to channel sociopathic traits into something constructive. The psychologists say you can't because they don't understand, but you know you can.

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  38. I wonder, when Medusa finally sees herself reflected without all the facepaint and feigned moral indignation, does she herself turn to stone?

    Technically, no. Perseus used a mirrored shield to find Medusa and enter her cave backward in order to avoid being turned to stone before later cutting off her head.

    Just FYI.

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  39. Ukan:"The team thing is amazing and I think you will miss out if you don't try it."

    It's an interesting prospect. However, I'd have to say that I need to first have a huge goal to achieve. Currently, my goals consist of the average human's. I'm actually very happy with my life as of the current moment. I like it this way, as you guessed.

    Thanks for the insight, Ukan. I always like to know how people similar to myself operate. (I would give you a much fuller and extensive comment, but I am mentally exhausted.)

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  40. Technically, no. Perseus used a mirrored shield to find Medusa and enter her cave backward in order to avoid being turned to stone before later cutting off her head.

    Uh, yes I know that. You miss the point.

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  41. Uh, yes I know that. You miss the point.

    There was a point to all that pretentious psychobabble? Forgive me for not having nominated you for a Nobel Peace Prize.

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  42. Hah, if that was over your head I'm not sure what I can do for you.

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  43. You can step out of that false sense of security that you seem to enjoy hiding behind.

    In case my point went over your head:

    "pretentious
    adjective
    attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed : a pretentious literary device."

    You'll need to do a better job of looking into that mirror m'dear. Perhaps there are some things you're still unwilling to admit about yourself and it would be best if you just look away :)

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  44. Anon, were you saying that the sociopath in Medusa's life got into her head by mirroring all the traits that she wanted to see, hiding himself behind a metaphorical mirror?

    Eventually, the sociopath cut off her head and took away the security of her stone-gazing ability. Medusa (the real person) is replacing her feeling of security with pretentiousness?

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  45. 2:

    First question; correct.

    Medusa (the real person) is replacing her feeling of security with pretentiousness?

    Rather, she is replacing her feelings of inadequacy with a false sense of security. People tend to turn to narcissism after an emotional injury, but looking into a mirror does nothing but reflect only what you choose to see.

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  46. Wow, UKan is giving heartfelt sociopathic advice.

    Ha-Ha

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  47. ME,

    I understand why this worries you!

    The problem with this kind of thing (reading micro-expressions) is that it is founded upon the presumption that everybody must feel the same kind and intensity of emotions in relation to what they think and say, and thus also in relation to how they act, in order to be "normal". This is very much a problem because we are not all alike in this regard, and I know that I am definitely not like most people, but I am also definitely not "evil".

    Having been "punished" on several occasions because of others' misinterpretations (I have even been falsely diagnosed as a psychopath, though it happened when I was very young - I was 18 years old - and it has since then been recanted) I can tell you quite frankly that this worries me too!

    Psychiatry seems to think that if your micro-behavior doesn't fit - or doesn't appear as according to - what you say or otherwise communicate (in the sense that someone who is like the majority of people - or, in the term you have chosen: an Empath - does), then you must be not only unlike most people, you must be disordered, ill, and basically evil.

    The main focus is always on Normalcy: Not Normal equals Bad, Ill and Evil.


    Random_Person:

    "In answer to the discussion above, I personally am interested in sociopaths because, generally, they are better at manipulating people than I am. Clearly, this is a valuable learned skill, and I would like to become better at it."

    The only thing you can do is to keep learning and be observant. Understanding other people well takes experience.
    Maybe you could learn more from studying psychology, though as a field of scientific knowledge about the human mind it is very flawed. Yet it is very useful.

    The psychological theories and hypotheses are also widely believed to rule peoples' minds, and what people believe they tend to live by and in a sense make real.

    If you weren't born with the knack for understanding people and and ability make use of that understanding (which is a skill or talent that you mention you see in Sociopaths), there is only the old way: Learning and studying.

    And Psychology is traditionally the way that common people go about it. So think about it, and good luck!... :)

    (continuing below...)

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  48. (continued from above...)

    2:

    "90% of the population cares, (even if they don't admit it)"

    Interesting observation.
    It's also interesting to note that this 'care' pops up and disappears according to when common folks find it to be a "wanted" and"likable" trait in themselves.
    I'd say the percentage is higher than 90 though.

    "I noticed that being attached to someone is bad for me ... The last 'relationship' I had an attachment was, ironically, causing me depression. That, and some other factors."

    Wow...! Obviously becoming depressed from being attached is not a good thing, but have ALL attachments that you've experienced caused you to become depressed? And if so, do you know why?

    You mention she (the girl you were attached to) was: "... far past broken. I realized it one night and I just ended it with her."

    Okay, I can see why that is not the most creative situation, but why become depressed? Was that because you hadn't seen how it was with her up until that point and you had been investing energy in trying to make something of it, attempts that never succeeded? ... I know from personal experience that this can cause someone to become quite frustrated and feeling there is no progress, it is a lifeless and uninspiring situation, but I've never actually become depressed because of it.

    ...But maybe that's just me. I never really become depressed at all, and anti-depressants have never affected me ... yes, I've tried those too; over the years, when psychiatrists tried to put a name on my profound dissatisfaction at the time, they've given me various of the more common labels such as Depression, having ADHD, and so on, and when I was younger I would even try to go along with it until I realized that it held no real truth. Today I no longer feel the need to define myself in this manner. I don't think I CAN truly be defined, though obviously a lot of the so called experts could find a few "names" for me, given my lack of inclination towards buying into the politically correct and accepted views and mental attitude/s of the common day.

    2,
    will you tell me/us about the "other factors" you mentioned, and about your experience with Depression?

    (I understand if you think I may have ill intent with this question, but truly I almost never have ill intentions at all (the general exception being in self defense), and I certainly don't have any here!)


    UK:

    "The team thing is amazing and I think you will miss out if you don't try it."

    After reading your description of "Team", I understand perfectly what you mean, and I think you're quite right! This (the Team idea) is what has made my life come alive again, alive and interesting!... Though it's not a small task we've given ourselves here, but that's part of what makes it interesting! ... Doing what is easy is fun too, but only for so long and not all the time. At some point one simply wants more than that!


    Ps. ... And now I'm sure a lot of people think we're trying to build ourselves an "army of sociopaths" or something silly an malicious like that. LMAO!... To those who are thinking along such lines: What we do is really not necessarily something sinister. We may actually just be trying to create ourselves a family.
    - Remember that our common picture of the "Evil Psychopath" who create a Jones Town or commit murder is very rarely what happens in reality, and in the few extreme cases where such do become reality, these Psychopaths are not likely to appear online posting comments on a blog that discusses their very traits.

    "Learn how to channel sociopathic traits into something constructive."

    Let's keep things real and realistic if we can!... :-)

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