Tuesday, January 31, 2017

Legitimate form of life

I tweeted this article about how Oliver Sacks conceives as difference not as a disability, but as a different set of abilities, but I wanted to share some more thoughts on it.

Maria Popova writes:

A voracious lifelong reader, Dr. Sacks had grown enchanted by the H.G. Wells short story “The Country of the Blind,” set in an isolated society where blindness prevailed for three centuries and where a lost Western traveller finds himself the aberrant one, afflicted with sight. Drawing on the Wells story, his own childhood experience of visual migraines that temporarily blunted his color perception, and his neurological work with a painter who had suddenly become colorblind, Dr. Sacks bridged two of his great literary and intellectual heroes — Wells and Darwin — and wondered whether there might exist, not in fiction but in geography, a real isolated culture where total colorblindness — or achromatopsia — had become a basic condition among the population.

Because such mutations are most easily contained in cultures isolated by sea, he reasoned that if such a society existed, it would have to be on an island. After tracking down the appropriate colleague to ask, he was surprised and thrilled to learn that one such island did indeed exist — Pingelap in the Caroline archipelago of Micronesia, where total colorblindness had been coloring the genetic pool for two centuries.
***
Like all genetic deviations from the mean, colorblindness on Pingelap had emerged due to a formidable brush with randomness. In 1775, a typhoon decimated 90% of the people living on the island. Most of the remaining survivors eventually succumbed to a slow death of starvation, so that of the one thousand islanders only twenty remained. Several centuries earlier, the original settlers had brought to Pingelap the recessive gene for colorblindness, but because the population had been large enough, the odds of two carriers marrying and the gene manifesting in their children had been fairly low. Now, with a tiny but fertile group left with no recourse but inbreeding to repopulate the island, the recessive gene suddenly flourished into growing domination and total colorblindness was soon a common condition.



Oliver Sacks writes:

Colorblindness had existed on both Fuur and Pingelap for a century or more, and though both islands had been the subject of extensive genetic studies, there had been no human (so to speak, Wellsian) explorations of them, of what it might be like to be an achromatope in an achromatopic community — to be not only totally colorblind oneself, but to have, perhaps, colorblind parents and grandparents, neighbors and teachers, to be part of a culture where the entire concept of color might be missing, but where, instead, other forms of perception, of attention, might be amplified in compensation. I had a vision, only half fantastic, of an entire achromatopic culture with its own singular tastes, arts, cooking, and clothing — a culture where the sensorium, the imagination, took quite different forms from our own, and where “color” was so totally devoid of referents or meaning that there were no color names, no color metaphors, no language to express it; but (perhaps) a heightened language for the subtlest variations of texture and tone, all that the rest of us dismiss as “grey.”

Sacks brings a colleague, Knut Nordby, who happens to also be colorblind, and experiences the island very differently than Sacks:

For us, as color-normals, it was at first just a confusion of greens, whereas to Knut it was a polyphony of brightnesses, tonalities, shapes, and textures, easily identified and distinguished from each other.

The world wasn't just tailored made for the colorblind, the colorblind people also seemed to have a unique advantage over their counterparts:

The achromatopic children seemed to have developed very acute auditory and factual memories… [They] were oddly knowledgeable too about the colors of people’s clothing, and various objects around them — and often seemed to know what colors “went” with what… We could already observe in these achromatopic children in Mand how a sort of theoretical knowledge and know-how, a compensatory hypertrophy of curiosity and memory, were rapidly developing in reaction to their perceptual problems. They were learning to compensate cognitively for what they could not directly perceive or comprehend.

The best part of the video is at 2:55 where he tells the story of them asking how the colorblind could even tell when a banana was ripe, since they couldn't distinguish between green and yellow. They brought a green banana, and they sort of contemptuously thought -- this illustrates our point, they can't tell this banana is green. But the banana turned out to be ripe. They explained -- you're narrow minded, you would have said this banana wasn't ripe because you would only be focused on color, but they were focused on everything else about the banana -- texture, smell, etc. Similarly, a lot of people who rely on empathy have a hard time understanding how those without it could make the same sorts of judgments or choices for which the empaths rely on it so heavily. Not only can we make the same judgments and choices, we sometimes can get there more accurately without the empathy, because the emotions are not clouding our moral judgment.

The video continues, we do stigmatize people because people have characteristics that put them in conflict with others, but once the population has a large percentage of that type of person, they just seem normal. I think of the debate I got in with someone about which is more dangerous -- maleness, or sociopathy. In my mind there's an easy argument to make for maleness. If you took a female empath and made her a sociopath, she would be much less statistically likely to be a violent criminal than if you made her into a man. That's just the statistical difference between males and females in terms of propensity towards violence. But of course no one seriously advocates for the elimination of men from the human race. Since they are so prevalent, we think of their violent tendencies as being rather normal.

Sacks puts it this way:

There is a sort of critical level, so that if a tenth or a quarter of the population have some condition, it has to be accepted as a legitimate form of life and won’t be marginalized and, sometimes, won’t even be noticed.

248 comments:

  1. FIRST!!!

    WOO-HOO!!!

    :):):)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, M.E.!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Hey, M.E.!!!

      I've been to Curacao!!!

      I love the pastel colored colonial buildings!!!

      My husband and I were with another couple, and we went to a beach/cove area.:) As soon as we heard that there were barracuda in the water there, THE GUYS HIT THE WATER!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey, M.E.!!!

      PS-Too bad you and I aren't in Curacao RIGHT NOW!!!

      THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. Speaking of the beach...

      SongoftheDay

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    5. "Blue Curacao", makes for some TASTY COCKTAILS!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
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  4. I feel I've always had my own sort of colorblindness. Ive always searched for the good in people. Or maybe really i haven't-i was just not aware there was any other way to be. Now that I know a little more I must admit I get very annoyed with sociopaths. The game is always the same. But I still really like some of them and I can see the goodness in them more and more. Its just very hard to get past the games.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Games are unfair, a cheat. It makes sense for you to be annoyed or angry at them.

      You helped me see that those strange fantasies are symbolic: manifestations of desire they can command. I think their games are similarly representative. And perhaps illuminating. A has said here that people give themselves away with many tells...

      Christopher S. Hyatt:
      You must see that you are frightened,
      that something is at STAKE all the time —
      even in your dreams — something is at stake,
      ALL THE TIME.


      This is the case for everyone. Psychopaths sometimes handle their situation using games. Although it's not native to us, although it's a different strategy, they are solving the same core problems that every living thing solves.

      We don't have to accept the games. And I don't think this necessarily means war. They do need space for alternate strategies however. A also wrote recently that if I cared I would show **-* it's safe for him to ask for what he wanted. I'm not sure if that part was tongue-in-cheek, but there is something to it. Interactions with other humans are always dangerous, something is always at stake. Psychopaths need to feel safe too... and this can happen without one or the other having the upper hand.

      This must be "quote A" day for me, but what the heck. This one's from a while back when we were chatting about my story with him the first time around. She said he'd have played with my heart while keeping his locked away (along those lines.) They don't readily give their hearts away.

      Anyway, FWIW, the games stop when you say what it is you want. There's nothing to play with then. This, of course, means you take the risk of hearing no, but that's how it is in any life situation anyway. With **-*, I actually think this has opened things up very nicely. He knows then. He can predict me better* and there's more space for him to be open as well.

      Delete
    2. a game itself is not a cheat. you just dont know the rules.

      both of you try to see the good and not the angles and thats why you dont like the game.

      lets face it, the game itself is something you dont understand and in that introverted little world of yours where you sit in the corner observing and understanding people, there is that one cunt you just cant figure out. and it is driving you up the fucking wall so much you are obsessively scrawling on the wall of some blog dedicated to his personality.

      Delete
    3. Ahhh, a long-missed breath of fresh air has appeared again. Succinct, honest, and unarguable.
      While I have no desire to presume on your time, perhaps you might consider chatting on diverse topics with some others, in private. I hope so. It would be helpful if UKan provide a throwaway email address in order for further explanation to be private?
      with respect XK/KAT

      Delete
    4. ^ There's more to life than winning arguments. The argument is never the point; it's merely the strategy.

      Delete
    5. The argument is never the point; it's merely the strategy.

      having a point and a strategy is something you seem to be missing, so maybe you need a good row

      Delete
    6. Ahhh, look who came krawling out of the woodwork to fawn over her idol... SW's very own krazy kat lady.

      So. What has your uptight little undies in a bunch *these* days, Krusty? Wait wait. Lemme guess....

      You're "resisting the occupation" by going to feminist marches wearing a vagina on your head! :D

      No? You seem the type.


      While I have no desire to presume on your time, perhaps you might consider chatting on diverse topics with some others, in private. I hope so. It would be helpful if UKan provide a throwaway email address in order for further explanation to be private?


      Listen to you- addressing the object of your adulation indirectly, in an awkward attempt to be coy. You try so hard to project an image of cultural and intellectual sophistication, but you're totally oblivious to how ridiculously formal, pompous and contrived you sound. It's positively kringe-worthy. XD



      Delete
  5. I think the moral of this post can be likened to a question of convenience vs potential.

    Or if you like, one is based on a 'template' of sorts and gets good results in most cases and is a very good and fast system when working 'as-intended' but it is not completely accurate (an approximation) and is somewhat limited while the other one requires building from the 'ground-up' and requires constant work and maintenance but has more potential in the long run and gives you more control and precision and with enough work put in can completely surpass the first system.

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    Replies
    1. Agreed.

      Of course, though, everyone is capable of optimising their particular neural configuration.

      Delete
    2. Yup agreed with the agree.

      Even the most expensive and impressive tools are not worth even a silly crapshoot if not learned mastered and 'optimized' it all depends on the individual and how they use them.

      Which reminds me of a really cool quote:
      'Use it or lose it'.

      Delete
    3. "Of course, though, everyone is capable of optimising their particular neural configuration."

      Agreed.

      Delete
    4. "not learned mastered and 'optimized' it all depends on the individual and how they use them.

      Which reminds me of a really cool quote:
      'Use it or lose it'."

      I do like this idea. Feels like freedom to me.

      Delete
    5. Hey North-

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  6. Are sociopaths aware of the difference between compassion and empathy? Do they realize compassion exists outside of the boundaries of morality

    ReplyDelete
  7. So ,Color Blindness- when I think of being "color-blind" I kind of think of vision in Black & White like TV used to be in its infancy.

    Would that be a correct assumption or not? You can tell the difference between black and white people on "Black and White" TV.

    Iam wondering about the Banana thing and surely the shades from Green, to yellow on a banana change a bit, and you can also tell by those little dots that are on them right when they are ripe or almost past the point of being ripe, also the softening feel of the banana, and Iam sure smell plays a big part of it as well.
    These people live on an island and it sounds like they are pretty much "living off the Land" (Plants/Fishing/Hunting etc) and I bet you that smelling things for ripeness is very enhanced on these people because of them being colorblind and that maybe heightening other sense (Especially Smell and touch)

    I have a couple of Avocados ripening in my kitchen and they have a different look/feel to them when they are ripe but I feel I could pick a ripe one without being able to see the color, but by touch alone, maybe Iam overestimating my abilities though.

    I like Robert Hare's and Hervey Cleckley's thoughts on colorblindness and Psychopathy in "Without Conscience" and "The Mask of Sanity" and are very intertesting to bring up during this conversation!

    PS- Thank you for the Porridge M,E, lol, I hope you are enjoying it as well as I am! it's nice and tasty today!

    :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, Richie Rich!!!

      AVOCADOS ARE YUMMY!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Hey, M.E.!!!

      Yes!!! I agree with Richie Rich-thank you, for the "porridge"!!!

      I hope you are enjoying it, too.:)

      Your "porridge" is "nice and tasty" today, although, I ALWAYS THINK YOUR PORRIDGE IS DELICIOUS!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Rich, that's an interesting hypothesis. If I have figured it out correctly, if you ignore the color, what you were saying is that you can tell a banana is ripe by smell, by touch, and by brown spots?

      I have done some research, and I have found out that the scent of a ripe banana should be stronger (more "sweeter" and "fruity") when compared to the unripe banana, and also that the skin should be softer (less "plasticky") -apparently, the unripe banana makes a cracking sound.

      In addition to the smell, touch and spots, I have also found out that you can tell a ripe banana from the unripe one by the stem: ripe banana should have a softer stem, and the stem should be wilted.

      You can also tell the ripeness of the banana by taste: unripe ones contain more starch, which obviously makes them taste "starchy", while the ripe ones contain more sugar which makes them sweeter.

      I have also found that overripe bananas have a "mushy" skin, so the banana should have a soft but firm skin.

      So, what I have concluded from all that is that you can tell the banana is ripe is if it has brown spots, if the skin is soft but not "mushy" (and it doesn't make a cracking sound when opened), the stem is soft and wilted, and the scent and taste is "sweet" due to higher amounts of sugar.

      Delete
    4. Hey Vegas! Hey Name!!!! Gotta love Avocados, Vegas!

      :)

      Damn! Name, you have studied Bananas extensivly! I usually can tell by the upper stem as well, that is a good way! But usually i see a couple brown spots (but you have to make sure there are not too many or it could be bad) on the skin and it does not ever have a "cracking sound" to it ever.

      But I have learned this through color as well. So it is hard to imagining learning another way.

      So, is color blindness like viewing a black and white TV? Thats usually how I picture it but Iam not sure. You can see shades in Black and white films pretty well. I think the last movie I watched that was in black and white was Martin Scorsese's "Raging Bull" with Robert Deniro and Joe Pesci! Good movie!

      Delete
    5. Well, I have also wondered that myself. I mean, color blindness is just not seeing colors, right?

      Then I found out that there is more than one kind of color blindness, depending on the affected receptors in the eye. While there is total color blindness - called achromatopsia - which is what you were referring to, usually people with color blindness cannot see only a spectrum of colors, of which red-green is the most common.

      I have found a web page where you can "try out" how various types of color blindnessess look like, so you can compare it to "normal" vision.

      You may also find it interesting that there are glasses that claim to grant color vision to color blind individuals, and you can also find videos on youtube, where color blind persons try these glasses out - according to the videos, the glasses work as intended.

      I haven't seen that movie, but I might. Thank you for the recommendation!

      Delete
    6. Hey Richie Rich-

      I've heard of the movie "Raging Bull", but I don't think I've seen it.

      I might have to check that out!!!

      Thank you, for the recommendation.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    7. Hey guys "Raging Bull" is actually based upon a true story but in the movie change a few things around.

      It is about the boxing career of Jake Lamotta. They changed a few things around from the real story but it is close to the real story if you see the movie then read about what really happened.

      Delete
    8. "Raging Bull" seems to have really great reviews, and I always love me a good movie. I guess I'll add it to my "watchlist".

      There's a movie I watched some time ago, which you might like - Shoot 'Em Up - and the whole premise of the movie is to show you as many gunfights as possible; I can certainly say it doesn't disappoint.

      Delete
    9. "Raging Bull" is considered to be one of the best movies ever made. Jake LaMotta said it wasn't violent enough.

      Delete
    10. Shoot em up sounds like a video game or what a group of addicts are going to go do LMAO! Sounds interesting though!

      Yes Damaged, Raging Bull was awesome! I always love any Scorsese movies, they are all great!

      Delete
  8. Hey, A-

    Why wouldn't you want to travel with me???

    :(:(:(

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, A-

      PS-Your loss...

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Hey, A-

      PPS-I know you "kind of like me"...

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  9. Well I got nothin'...

    So I guess I'll just share an awesome song! Enjoy!
    I know I am! :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Vegas -

      It says "Whiskey" in the song... :)

      Delete
    2. Anon @ 12:53-

      THANK YOU, FOR SHARING THAT AWESOME SONG!!!

      I am enjoying it VERY MUCH, and I am glad that you are, too!!!

      I think the 3rd line of this AC/DC song, goes along with the theme of this post...

      "You Shook Me All Night Long"

      She was a fast machine she kept her motor clean
      She was the best damn woman that I ever seen
      She had the sightless eyes telling me no lies
      Knocking me out with those American thighs
      Taking more than her share
      Had me fighting for air
      She told me to come but I was already there
      Cause the walls start shaking
      The earth was quaking
      My mind was aching
      And we were making it
      And you shook me all night long
      Yeah you shook me all night long

      I'm working double time on the seduction line
      She's one of a kind she's just mine all mine
      Wanted no applause it's just another course
      Made a meal outta me
      And come back for more
      Had to cool me down to take another round
      Now I'm back in the ring to take another swing
      Cause the walls were shaking the earth was quaking
      My mind was aching
      And we were making it
      And you shook me all night long
      Yeah you shook me all night long
      Knocked me out I said you
      Shook me all night long
      You had me shaking and you
      Shook me all night long
      Yeah you shook me
      When you took me

      You really took me and you
      Shook me all night long
      You shook me all night long
      Yeah, yeah, you shook me all night long
      You really got me and you
      Shook me all night long
      Yeah you shook me
      Yeah you shook me
      All night long

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey Name-

      "Hey Vegas -

      It says "Whiskey" in the song... :)"

      I LOVE THAT!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. Hey, M.E.!!!

      This one's for you.:)

      SongoftheDay

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  10. M.E. have you seen this:

    All that we share
    Classification is arbitrary; or if not arbitrary, at least temporal, contextual, political.

    There's plenty we share. Depends on the viewpoint. And the agenda!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What I think North is trying to say is that, by cooperating, at least temporarily, all can get what they want, and, if there's no more need, or a want, for cooperation, everyone can leave with their metaphorical bellies full.

      Am I correct in that assumption, North?

      Delete
    2. Hey Name,

      I think that's true of cooperation. People form alliances for as long as they are useful - although it's not usually/necessarily a conscious process.

      I was also saying re acceptance of sociopaths generally- there's a lot of common ground to draw on. It's not all difference. The more I spend time with **-*, the more I see the similarities and can see corollaries of the differences in myself. My sense is that the difference - at least between me and him - is largely his flat affect. The rest makes sense using all sorts of lenses that don't include "psychopaths are evil", including avoidant attachment and attacking threat. I mean, he pre-empts threat - enter games, manipulation - and then annihilates it - it's a matter of scale.

      I mean to say there are definitely different questions to ask, different ways of understanding that could bring about acceptance in a similar way to the normalisation of autism, homosexuality etc

      Delete
    3. North I agree, when we push back the mask in search of fire and passion we find the flat affect. The world of nope, yep and meh where everything is easily shrugged off. The more we search the flatter it gets.

      Delete
    4. Another difference is the complete lack of attachment. Most people don't enter a relationship comforted by the fact that they will control every aspect including when the relationship ends. Most people want to bond with another. You can't truly bond if you are always trying to control.

      Delete
    5. Hey North,

      It's definitely interesting how we reached a different conclusion from that video - while I was looking at the overall structure of the video, and the purpose behind it, you were more focused on the message of the video. It just goes to say how different our viewpoints are.

      What you were saying, then, is that, if there is to be acceptance, there should be a way to find common ground, and a way of bridging the different viewpoints (ie. by asking questions)?
      Well then, in my opinion, while you should take into account all the differences, and find common grounds to work with, you should also take care not to get mislead into seeing more similarities than there really are. Examining different viewpoints, noting the similarities and differences, and using those similarities to, eventually, accept the differences, seems like a good way to me to bring about acceptance.

      Well, I don't know **-* as well as you, obviously, but it could be just you seeing what you want in him. I am not saying there are not similarities between you two, only that you might be seeing more similarities than there are. It just doesn't make sense to me to say that the difference is largely in his flat affect - it seems as if you two are nearly the same, except he has flat affect. I don't doubt that you two share similarities (perhaps, a lot of similarities), as does everyone, but, perhaps, there may be more differences than you might be aware of. Anyway, it's just something to think about.

      Pre-empting threats could be due to him seeing and experiencing certain (bad for him) events in the past, observing where they led to eventually, and, noticing that there is a pattern to these events, decided to prevent the damage, not taking any chances, rather than to allow for the trouble to brew - perhaps, as he sees it, it's better to prevent than to cure. But, then again, he might simply be overly paranoid, seeing trouble where there really isn't any. I don't know, really.

      Delete
    6. North I guess what I mean is the flat affect, at least in my situation, is a symptom or indicator of a much deeper I guess problem. Its very strange to me how much acting occurs. But when the mask is peeled back that flat affect equaled pure lack of compassion towards me or anyone else. And a complete inability to understand on a very basic level. That flat affect made them completely alien to me.

      Delete
    7. I know all situations are different. The total change I saw in them was nightmarish to me. Its what made me leave. Its what made me never want to go back. Maybe there is a way for nons to understand this better and get past the initial shock and horror of it all. Its very extremely hard to get past.

      Delete
    8. Hm, compassion... Sure, why not. I'll try to be compassionate.
      ...
      Yes. I am sure that that must be really an awful situation that has happened to you, and also, that nobody, but you yourself, really knows what has really happened, which is inclusive of how you truly feel. Nobody, not one person on the planet, but you, is in the total possession of the complete facts - I can not, and will not, pretend to know what you are really going through, as I do not know what you are really going through. That much is obvious.

      However, I would think that, if you truly wanted to get over the situation, and to move on with your life, you would take the neccessary steps to pick up your shattered life-pieces and rebuild yourself. Sure, yeah, you can complain and complain and complain and write about it for pretty much, I don't know, eternity or so, which I am pretty sure makes you feel really, really good.

      Of course, it is not really my perogative to tell you what you should, or should not do, and I personally do not mind your writings really, at all really, and I truly do not doubt that writing about it helps you in some ways, ways which only you are able to comprehend, as those ways are only your ways, not my ways, or someone else's ways, and all of that is happening to you, and only to you, not happening to me, or to somebody else. But maybe you ought to, I don't know, ought to attempt to consider to eventually to try to look for a way out of the, based on your comments, horrible, horrible rabbit hell-hole you seemingly have somehow found yourself in.

      But, then again, though, maybe this actually is your own unique way of healing your psychological wounds. I can only hope that the act of writing about it is making you feel much better, and that the act in question is successfully fixing whatever damage seems to have been caused to you by the unknown individual in question, which has caused you to think, and to engage, in the act of writing about said individual, whose identity is known only to you. If that is the case, then, please continue with your current course of action, which is: writing about your situation.

      I sure am hopeful that you will be completely successful in finding for yourself a way out of the dark maze of sorrow, anon, and I, myself, am wishful to you, for you, that my comment has, at least, lightened up your days for you, and has gotten you... Ooh-kay now, I do not really know what it is that it is really supposed to have gotten it for you, but, you know, whatever it is, it hopefully has been gotten for you, and also that, that that gottening has been positive in the wholesome.

      Fin.

      Delete
    9. Hey anon:

      "And a complete inability to understand on a very basic level."
      Indeed. It's so very different. The natural bonding they lack; it is intensely bizarre and disconcerting. Sometimes it's too much.

      Horror is indeed the word. I had already scribbled that word in my notebook prior to your post. There are reasons we experience that.

      The flat affect stuff - I probably need to think a bit more before I can articulate myself clearly. It's on my list of things to do :)

      Delete
    10. Hey Name,

      Thanks for your thought-provoking piece. I do like to be challenged in my thinking and I did ponder your questions.

      Yes, I think there are questions that might apply across the spectrum and draw out some common experiences. Questions like "were you the class clown?" "Did you have a step parent?" "Do you prefer to learn in a group setting or by digesting material on your own?" "Did you have sex last week?" Tons of things. There are so many facets to our humanity: given we are prone to thinking of sociopaths as robots... these questions might help round things out a little.

      "Examining different viewpoints, noting the similarities and differences, and using those similarities to, eventually, accept the differences, seems like a good way to me to bring about acceptance." I may have addressed this a little in my comments below.

      Quick background: he and I had an affair that ended nearly 3 years ago. Both marriages dissolved and we've been dating again for 9 months. I went through the confusion and emotional turmoil you can imagine. The process for me was something like you have described. I had to create a model of understanding that fit my experience: nothing out there matched it sufficiently. It wasn't explained by religion. Not by philosophy. Insufficiently by psychology. The best insights from primatology and human evolution and many, many unexpected places. I had to rip out every idea about human sociality I had held and built them from scratch to include this different paradigm of humanity. Perhaps it's not useful to others but it sure as hell is useful to me. It fits my datapoints, makes sense of them, gives me a coherent narrative. And the ability to interpret, and increasingly, to predict.

      So yes, I have internalised the differences and am now in a position to relate them to my own patterns. Thinking of it now: if my model has any validity, this should be expected. Of course it's not a sample size from which any conclusions could scientifically be drawn.

      Essentially, my method is to look at his otherwise-unfathomable behaviour and consider what problem it might be trying to solve. It's precisely here that i find similarities or at least I can relate to what he is doing without feeling disgust or horror. Although I do still sometimes feel that initially.

      Delete
    11. Hey North,

      Well, I am glad that my questions have caused you to ponder, and to refine, your "template".

      Yes, I can imagine that asking questions and answering them can really show the differences in thinking between different individuals. As I see it, experiences, differences in genes, and so on, make up the whole of someone's personality; the sum of parts. There is a quote that I consider fitting - The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Similarities ensure compatibility, otherwise, there would be no way to relate, and thus, everybody would be completely foreign to everybody.

      Perhaps, it can be likened to a language.

      In the case of a common language, everyone uses it differently, or expresses themselves, in their own way, but despite that, there are enough similarities that there are practically no problems between communication.

      And in the other case, translation from two different languages, inevitably, removes some of the original meanings, but, if the translation is good enough, the information conveyed can be close enough, thus, understanding.

      Of course, someone fluent in one language, the native one, can learn foreign languages, but, in speaking them, will most likely somehow betray his "non-nativity", probably by accent - there are exceptions, of course, where the individuals are so good at it that you'd never suspect their "nativity".

      Yeah, I also have my own models, that aren't really "scientifically valid", but, they do work for me, even though quite a few of them, if I were to rely on expectations and predictions, by all logic shouldn't.

      So, I would say, whatever works for you - you see the results, and if they are favourable, then, yes, by all means, use them. If they are wrong in some ways, you'll eventually notice errors in your datapoints, and be able to discard/refine the wrong data.

      And while we're on the subject kf scientific validity, once upon a time, the Earth was considered flat, and heroin was considered so safe that it was recommended as a cough medicine for children, yet today, we know differently. Similarly, something that we consider as scientifically-valid today, can be disproven as wrong in the future. If we knew everything, then, there would be no need for new research, the disproving and proving of different theories and concepts.

      From what I see, your model consists of trying to convert the differences into similarities, and it seems to me that you only have one single, "universal" template, and that the only way for you to understand somebody is if it fits that one single template, and you view the world only through that one template, which you refine and upgrade over time. You focus mostly on the similarities, and the differences can make you uncomfortable - if the differences outweigh the similarities too much, it garners a negative reaction.

      Delete
    12. Name trying to convert the differences into similarities is a way of extending compassion or having empathy as sociopaths say. We all have our own natural viewpoint of the world. Sociopaths have a hard time seeing others viewpoints because they seem to believe they are in no way like others. Infact they are human just like everyone else with the same vulnerabilities. When sociopaths are willing to accept this fact new world open up within themselves.

      Delete
    13. Anon, you might want to read up on three types of empathy. Compassionate empathy is the one which rewards you for doing acts of compassion. Without it, acts of compassion do not garner a "feel-good" reaction.

      I do not doubt that converting the differences externally gives the appearance of similarity, and compassion.
      However, what I was referring to was internal, as in thought processes. Anyone with a developed enough cognitive empathy can give you the appearance of compassion.

      Perspective taking is done by using cognitive empathy, something that the sociopaths decidedly do not lack. The level and efficacy of the perspective taking, however, depends entirely on the individual, and how developed their cognitive empathy is.
      One sociopath may suck at perspective taking, while the other one may excel at it.

      Being aware that you are different does not, in any way, mean that you are precluded from taking on different viewpoints and perspectives, which is what you seem to be implying.

      Yes, they are human, but saying that they have the same vulnerabilities as everyone else is quite a stretch. This would mean that everything that works on non-sociopaths, would also work on sociopaths. While I do not doubt that they might share some weaknessess that everyone else shares, it would make more sense to say that they have different weaknesses when compared to everyone else.

      Delete
    14. And by the way.... Telling someone to get over it or move on reeks of your own fear. Of course you want that. Its funny the sociopath said that to me. To move on, get over it, yet they still send me crazy texts. Hmmmm it's quite the tactic..

      Delete
    15. Then, that is them as a person. They may not even be a sociopath, they may simply be an asshole. How do you know he is a sociopath?

      Anyway, if the texts are bothering you, simply block their number. Problem solved.

      Delete
    16. Name they are both an asshole and a sociopath. They are in full monster mode and it only confirms who they really are. Who they were all along. This goes back to the horror I was speaking of. Its shocking to know someone was not what they led you to believe. We as nons must personally confront that. The difference is we want to heal ourselves and we would help the sociopath if we could.

      Delete
    17. Are they doing anything besides sending you "crazy texts"? Well, then, if not, just blocking their number should be sufficient.

      Some people just cannot be saved. You cannot help anyone if you do not have the capability nor the resources to do so. To help others, first you must help yourself. Once you've helped yourself, you'll be able to effectively help others.

      I have to say, though, telling you to move on, then constantly sending you texts sounds doesn't look sociopathic to me. I really doubt a sociopath would care enough to keep trying to send you "crazy texts" and constantly harass you, especially if they see that it doesn't work, and especially if they are through with you. I don't know the "sociopath" in question, but based on the data above, if it is completely correct, and you are not witholding any information (such as, are those "crazy texts" responses to your texts - are you attempting to contact them first?), I'd say no.

      Delete
    18. " Most people don't enter a relationship comforted by the fact that they will control every aspect including when the relationship ends. Most people want to bond with another. You can't truly bond if you are always trying to control."- anon

      BAM! HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD! In people who only want "Control" and "power" (and sometimes this is all in their own heads, you can actually knowingly know their game and give them "power" and "control" without them knowing you are playing them) the bad part about that though is most people feel bad about playing games and toying with others but I think many Sociopaths/Narcs relying on only wanting power and control are easy to get them "thinking" they have the power and control if that is what you want them to think. Of course some people are easier than others to play "games" with so please be careful and I dont recommend playing games with anyone, its unproductive and a waste of time.

      Also, always remember that some people are so well versed in the playing of games and whatnot that you will never win with them.

      What people who are empaths/neurotypicals dont always get is that these people (not all of them) do this all day EVERY DAY, 24/7 in every interaction for YEARS at a time. Some of them are pretty damn good at what they do, others fuck up and lie so much that they cannot remember their old lies and tell you something else at a later date, both of the personality disordered women I have dated did that same thing, they lied so much they couldnt keep them all straight and they would basically just contradict everything they had said previously and it could be about something small or something large, in my experiences, they will lie about anything, even when the truth makes more sense and sounds better.

      Delete
    19. Hi Name,

      Very interesting analogy re language. Another is reverse-engineering.

      Delete
    20. Hey Richie and anon,

      Richie, you're bang on about it being the default 24/7 mode of operation. No one wants to feel vulnerable, hence the need for control.

      anon: "And by the way.... Telling someone to get over it or move on reeks of your own fear. Of course you want that. Its funny the sociopath said that to me. To move on, get over it, yet they still send me crazy texts. Hmmmm it's quite the tactic.."

      I think people who are aware of their own vulnerabilities can readily notice them in others.

      Delete
    21. "I think people who are aware of their own vulnerabilities can readily notice them in others."

      I think this is very true, and sometimes can make it easier to be with the person, and in some cases it makes it alot worse depending on the relationship/person.

      Delete
  11. HAPPY GROUNDHOG'S DAY/BELATED GROUNDHOG'S DAY, SOCIOPATH WORLD!!!

    PS-The movie "Groundhog's Day", with Bill Murray and Andie MacDowell is pretty funny, in my opinion.:)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, wait!!!

      The movie is actually just called "Groundhog Day".:)

      My bad!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Oh thank the god almighty and the heavens above you've removed that "'s"! I mean, a mispelled movie name?!? Unacceptable!!! :)

      Delete
    3. LOL name you crack me up!!!!! Maybe Vegas is a perfectionist or has a slight case of OCD!!!!

      Delete
    4. Ah come on, for fucks sake!

      The apostrophe? The apostophe??? Oh wow, how nice of ya!

      I just googled groundhog's day, with an APOSTOPHE!! and it gave me groundhog day, without an apostrophe!! How very hilarious!! Woo!

      Oh you airy bitch jus wastin' space with yer vegasing and thank yous and havent seens!

      I got a real good thank you for ya. Thank you for being such a filly stinky bag of air you make bagpipes scream in terror!! Oh the horror!

      Delete
    5. Z-

      You had me at "Hello"...

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  12. Colorblindedness mentioned in The Mask of Sanity about a Psychopathic patient-

    To consider his intelligence (or should one say wisdom?) from another viewpoint,
    from that of the ordinary man's idea of what is good sense about working out a
    successful plan of life on a long-term basis, only the story of his career can speak
    adequately. Be it noted that the result of his conduct brings trouble not only to others
    but almost as regularly to himself.
    To take still another point of view and consider him on a basis of thosevalues somewhat vaguely implied by "intellectuality," "culture," or, in everyday speech,
    by "depth of mind," we find an appalling deficiency. These concepts in which meaning
    or emotional significance are considered along with the mechanically rational, if applied
    to this man, measure him as very small, or very defective. He appears not only ignorant
    in such modes of function but stupid as well. He is unfamiliar with the primary facts or
    data of what might be called personal values and is altogether incapable of
    understanding such matters. It is impossible for him to take even a slight interest in the
    tragedy or joy or the striving of humanity as presented in serious literature or art. He is
    also indifferent to all these matters in life itself. Beauty and ugliness, except in a very
    superficial sense, goodness, evil, love, horror, and humor have no actual meaning, no
    power to move him.
    He is, furthermore, lacking in the ability to see that others are moved. It is as
    though he were colorblind, despite his sharp intelligence, to this aspect of human
    existence. It cannot be explained to him because there is nothing in his orbit of
    awareness that can bridge the gap with comparison. He can repeat the words and say
    glibly that he understands, and there is no way for him to realize that he does not
    understand.


    I like how Cleckley uses that sort of comparison, I swear he is one of the most in depth and interesting authors EVER. He was a truly brilliant man with a good sense of humor from his writings and he just makes everything flow so well, you being able to understand what he is thinking about the patient.

    Very interesting stuff to me at least :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you've mentioned somewhere before that the case studies make "The Mask of Sanity" a worthy read.

      The comparison to color blindness is certainly interesting. Thank you for sharing these case studies.

      Anyway, since it's freely available on the net, I have decided to include the link for anyone wanting to read it. :)

      Delete
    2. AWWWWWWW Name! How find of you to post the link!

      If anyone wants to read the Iceman confessions of a contract color but ion recorded for (you wont have to read lol) Ill post the likes one here if anybody wants to hear the Richard Kuklinski book By Philip Carlo.

      Delete
    3. Lol find!

      I have watched the Iceman interviews on youtube, and they were very interesting. Sure, include the links. :)

      Delete
    4. Here is the Audiobook of The Iceman- Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer By Phillip Carlo. It is in an 11 part series and an awesome book sometimes I fall asleep to the guy who reads its voice, its calming.

      My name on Youtube is Richie Roxi here is Part of of the Iceman book- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FKofKE4xIs&t=647s

      Delete
    5. Thanks for sharing the link, I'll give it a listen when I can - I found it really fascinating to read about Iceman.

      The other ten parts are already linked to the part one, so I guess just this one part is enough for anyone interested in the audiobook.

      Delete
    6. Name no the book is very long! it comes out in 11 parts. The book altogether is about 15-20 hours, so each part is a continuation of the last part from 1-11

      ;)

      Delete
    7. Well, youtube already linked the parts, at least it did for me, which means that by opening the part one, the other parts are already at the fingertips, since they are linked, which is what I meant by saying that just including the part one is enough. Feel free to include all the parts if you want, though.

      ;)

      PS
      What do you think about that smiley above, at 5:48? :)

      Delete
    8. Nah, no need for sorry, it happens. And it's always fun to argue, no? :)

      Delete
    9. I think it was hotter than other smileys, I like the color

      :)

      Delete
    10. Oh snap it was a link to part 1 of the book lmao you crack me up, Name!!!!!!!!

      Delete
    11. hello on youtube!!!!!!! LOL! :)

      Delete
    12. Hello Hello! I didnt get your email though :(

      Delete
    13. Well, I guess it's not really wise to share your email, now is it? ;)

      Delete
    14. What I meant to say was, there was an error when I tried to send you a mail. So, I assumed, that was not your real mail.

      Anyway... If it's your real mail, you'll get my mail.

      Delete
  13. ANOTHER ONE!!!!!!-

    We may also consider the possibility that such a person as Anna might be born
    with a subtle and specific biologic defect. Perhaps, despite a high capacity for
    intelligence and charm, something necessary for wisdom or for sincere and major
    human feelings was left out or incomplete in her development. Capacities very different
    and much simpler are incomplete in the person born with color blindness or with a
    spastic deficiency in the motor system. Such biologic deficiencies are not necessarily
    hereditary. Let us assume that a defect in development may leave such a person as
    Anna without the capacity to attain deep loyalty or genuine love or to adequately
    recognize and react to the major goals and values of human life. The lack of major
    satisfactions and aspirations and the freedom from serious scruples or remorse might
    leave such a person free to act out any whim of folly or rebellion and offer some
    explanation for such a career as Anna's.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Another -

      Joe is not really facing facts now but only acting in charade in which he faces
      imitation facts. He says he is responsible for his failures and seems to accept this
      responsibility honestly and to have normal regret for the pain he has caused others, but
      in studying him it becomes apparent that the regret is something quite different from
      what we have presumed he was talking about and that he is able to act as if it were
      profound only because he is utterly unaware of what real and serious regret is - because
      he does not experience real and serious emotions.
      It is difficult to describe this impression without implying that the patient's
      reactions are being identified with deliberate fraud or with hypocrisy in its ordinary
      meaning. There is, however, a fundamental difference. Psychopaths notoriously
      deceive and falsify, with strict awareness of the intention and about any sort of situation.
      Voluntary and quite conscious decisions to lie occur and are carried out in
      discussing the points on which we attempt to estimate insight and the genuineness of
      emotions, desire, grief, remorse, love. In addition to such factors, however, we
      encounter misleading reports of another sort.
      In all probability, Joe was often accurately describing his reactions insofar as he
      could. Something left out of his experience made it impossible for him to see that the
      words he used did not refer to such emotional actualities as they would in another. One
      might say this constitutes a kind of strange and paradoxical sincerity, something a little
      like the report of a color-blind man (without knowledge of his defect) who after
      investigation swears conscientiously that the horizon is gray, though it actually blazes
      with all the colors of the sunset.
      Such a somparison is, however, full of implications that may mislead us. It can
      also be said that this particular patient, when it suits his purposes, does not hesitate to falsify
      with full deliberation.

      Delete
  14. I just heard "The Smashing Pumpkins" song, "Bullet with Butterfly Wings". It has been awhile since I heard that song, and the lyrics are awesome:

    The world is a vampire, sent to drain
    Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
    And what do I get, for my pain?
    Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game

    Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
    All my cool and cold - like old job

    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
    Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

    Now I'm naked, nothing but an animal
    But can you fake it, for just one more show?
    And what do you want?
    I want to change
    And what have you got, when you feel the same?

    Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
    All my cool and cold - like old job

    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
    Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

    Tell me I'm the only one
    Tell me there's no other one
    Jesus was the only son, yeah.
    Tell me I'm the chosen one
    Jesus was the only son for you

    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
    And someone will say what is lost can never be saved
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a-
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a-
    Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

    Tell me I'm the only one
    Tell me there's no other one
    Jesus was the only son for you

    [4x]
    And I still believe that I cannot be saved

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. PS-

      I love the video, too.:)

      PPS-

      Hey, M.E.!!!

      How's "My Girl"???

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Today must be "Smashing Pumpkins Day"!!!

      I just heard their song "Disarm".

      Here are the lyrics:

      Disarm you with a smile
      And cut you like you want me to
      Cut that little child
      Inside of me and such a part of you
      Ooh, the years burn

      I used to be a little boy
      So old in my shoes
      And what i choose is my choice
      What's a boy supposed to do?
      The killer in me is the killer in you
      My love
      I send this smile over to you

      Disarm you with a smile
      And leave you like they left me here
      To wither in denial
      The bitterness of one who's left alone
      Ooh, the years burn
      Ooh, the years burn, burn, burn

      I used to be a little boy
      So old in my shoes
      And what I choose is my voice
      What's a boy supposed to do?
      The killer in me is the killer in you
      My love
      I send this smile over to you

      The killer in me is the killer in you
      Send this smile over to you
      The killer in me is the killer in you
      Send this smile over to you
      The killer in me is the killer in you
      Send this smile over to you

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Smashing Pumpkins having been doing it for me lately too.

      I like 1979. Disarm is a good one, apt.

      Delete
    4. Hey North-

      I'm glad Smashing Pumpkins are doing it for you, too.:)

      1979 IS AN AWESOME SONG!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  15. Hey, A-

    You mentioned that you might learn the Hebrew language.:)

    I was wondering if you ever did, are doing, or still plan to do that???

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, A-

      PS-Don't worry-I won't ask you, if you want to go with me, to the Sea of Galilee anymore...

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  16. Hey Name!!!! Hey everybody! Iam sorry I didnt respond to your email yet name I feel like a got beat up by like 4 people (Iam pretty hungover lol, drinking water as fast as i can!)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Rich!

      No pressure. You don't have to reply if you don't feel like it. :)

      Delete
    2. Hey there Name! I hit ya back on Email! Thanks for the Serial Killer Files link, I am for sure going to check that out once I am done doing my little daily errands and whatnot!

      I hope you are doing well!

      :)

      Delete
    3. OMG Name thank you so much for the "Serial Killer Files" download, OMG it looks AMAZING! I can tell it is going to be great just from everybody they seem to list in there!

      Thanks again I appreciate it!

      Also if you are interested I have "The art of Seduction" on audiobook by Robert Greene (Same man who wrote the famous "48 Laws of Power")

      Delete
    4. Also, speaking of the 48 laws of power I have that one too on Pdf but it is very easy to find online if you want me to send any just let me know, if you have never read or heard of the 48 Laws of Power you gotta check it out, very interesting book.

      Basically a "How to be a psychopath" guide LMAO

      Delete
    5. Oh hey Rich!

      I am glad to hear that your hangover's passed, and that you feel much better. :)

      Delete
    6. And, thanks for recommending those books. They seem very interesting, especially the 48 Laws. :)

      Delete
    7. Hey name, thanks buddy! If you want one or both of the Robert Greene Books just let me know and I will email them right over just like you did with this awesome Serial Killer book (Iam only like 15 pages into it by now),
      The Art of Seduction is another audiobook, but the 48 laws of power book that I have is on pdf form like the serial killer files.

      If you want me to send one or both just let me know and right when I if you want one (or both) Ill send them over though E-mail.

      The 48 Laws of Power is VERY interesting especially if you have to deal with people who have personality disorders or want control and power over everything in life.

      I think whether one is an Empath or an Axis 2 cluster b personality disorder and any person in between can benefit from the 48 laws of power even if they decide not to use any of the laws they will be able to recognize them in others.

      Delete
    8. Here is the 48 laws of Power pdf link, the other I have saved to my computer so I would have to sen it by email.

      Heres the pdf 48 laws of Power book- http://www.naveedkashif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/The-48-Laws-of-Power.pdf

      If you have any problems let me know and ill just email you both of them if you'd like

      :)

      Delete
    9. Thank you for the link, Rich.

      There is no need to send me the books, but I appreciate the offer. :)

      Delete
    10. Hope you like the link, Name! It is a fascinating book! I havent got through all of it yet but the 48 laws are listed beforehand anyway.

      Delete
    11. I am glad that you are enjoying the book. :)

      Delete
    12. It's awesome and has very aweso,me and detailed info, I have been flipping through it because I love the cases but I will for sure read the entire book soon.

      Have you checked out the 48 Laws of Power yet?

      Delete
    13. Yes, and I am very happy that you are finding it interesting. :)

      Delete
    14. Thanks bud Iam reading about the psychopathy part and other random parts so far! Very great book my compliments and thank you!!!!

      Very engaging book from what I have checked out so far

      :)

      Delete
    15. I think it's nice that you've found an engaging book.

      :)

      Delete
    16. Thanks again for sending it! Very interesting , I like how it has so many cases in one big book like that. Also covers mental illness that the people had at times, Right in the beginning it had a thing about psychopathy which is always interesting!

      :) (Thumbs up!)

      Delete
    17. No problem. Glad you're liking the book.

      :)

      Delete
    18. Sorry, that was stupid.

      Delete
    19. Sorry, you think so.

      Delete
    20. So sorry you're sorry.

      Delete
    21. Yes, I think so. It was stupid.

      Delete
    22. Yes, it was indeed a very stupid thing to do.

      Delete
    23. A very stupid thing.

      Delete
    24. What was stupid?

      Delete
    25. A thing. There. Up there.

      Delete
    26. Well I guess it's a thing with you mate. Get a fuckin' grip ya wanker!

      Delete
    27. Hey. This is becoming stupid. What the fuck man?

      Delete
    28. Oh man I gotta go. Bye or something. Yeah. Bye. :)

      Delete
    29. Ah shit. I gotta stop typing!

      Delete
    30. Yes, you are really funny.:) You make me smile, and giggle, and get off task...

      Delete
    31. LOL no name it was very kind and thank you!

      I would recommend it to anybody who enjoys true crime and psychology!

      :) Thanks again !!!!!!!!!

      Hello Anonymous!!!!!! Make a name please!!!! So we know which one you are lol!

      Delete
  17. Replies
    1. SUPER BOWL!!!

      WOO-HOO!!!

      I can't wait to watch the halftime show, with Lady Gaga!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. GO ATL!!!

      YIPPIE!!! YIPPIE!!! YIPPIE!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey, M.E.!!!

      Are you at the Super Bowl???

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. GO ATL!!! GO ATL!!! GO ATL!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    5. NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      :(:(:(

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  18. ya it is quite different and i am looking for more information, This is very well impressive and super too.

    Best Implant Clinic In Chennai | Best Laser Clinic In Chennai | Best Dental Clinic In Vellore

    ReplyDelete
  19. Sociopaths / Psychopaths:

    What is friendship to you? Alliance? Being on someone's side? Allowing someone on your side?

    Rapid insights most welcome :p

    P.S. Name and anon: I did pencil a response to your comments above, just been flat stick at work. I'll write again in a couple of hours.

    Cheers,

    North

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 'cause the hidjus ole pollywobble (in the affectionate language of childhood favourite The Muddleheaded Wombat) has to have every single thing negotiated under explicit deals, everything explicitly agreed to. It's incredible.

      And he is all about transferring risk and effort. If I refuse such a transfer, we have to explicitly negotiate a deal. He can handle reciprocity and fairness but only under these circumstances.

      Call me on confirmation bias here, but this is a repeated pattern that goes in support of my ideas that the control psychopaths (and others) attempt to exert is all about improving predictability and therefore about reducing risk of disadvantage. Actually, not my idea at all but Gavin de Becker's:

      “Another characteristic common to predatory criminals (and many other people as well) is their perceived need to be in control. Think of someone you know whom you might call a control freak. That person, like most violent people, grew up in a chaotic, violent, or addictive home. At a minimum, it was a home where parents did not act consistently and reliably, a place where love was uncertain or conditional. For him or her, controlling others became the only certain way to predict their behavior. People can be very motivated to become control experts because an inability to predict behavior is absolutely intolerable for human beings and every other social animal*. (The fact that most people act predictably is literally what holds human societies together.)”

      He refuses to be at any risk: physically (as discussed many times) or materially. Although he has let me pin his arms once or twice since.

      Does it ever happen you start from a place of assuming someone is on your side? That someone won't instantly take advantage of you if you let your guard down for even a fraction of a second?

      I'm not asking this because I hope he will. I don't think he can. I'm just curious to see if anyone here experiences that.

      Incidentally, neurotypicals also expect fairness and reciprocity. The key difference from his behaviour is that we accept longer payback periods. Of course, this willingness to wait is what gives psychopaths their advantage: it's why you think we are stupid. We are not stupid, we have different starting points. It's why we go nutso when we've figured out you were cheating / lying all along. We have completely different configuration for social cooperation. But do we or do we not then wreak at least as much havoc? Revenge is an innate drive in all of us. Most of us don't really like the impulse for revenge. We know it's dangerous and feels pretty shit. But we are compelled to level the tables. It's very difficult to refrain (ref: every psychopath victim site on the Interwebs.)

      It's all about investment of material resources and nourishment of our own gene pool, baby.

      Delete
    2. *clearly, one way I have of improving my predictive abilities is to reconceptualise everything, lol. And Name, anon is doing similarly. Anyone who has had an unfathomable experience (as is typical of interactions with a psychopath) simply must resolve the dissonance. It's not a choice; the brain considers it necessary for survival. We simply cannot go on without understanding. Watch (or read) The Girl on the Train. There's a reason she stopped drinking when she found her answers: her brain insisted on hanging on until she found them. It's a chief mechanism of adaptation to context.

      This isn't actually the first time I have totally reconfigured my world view to accommodate experience data that didn't fit my worldview. This was a far more massive endeavour, however!

      Delete
    3. “Another characteristic common to predatory criminals (and many other people as well) is their perceived need to be in control. Think of someone you know whom you might call a control freak. That person, like most violent people, grew up in a chaotic, violent, or addictive home. At a minimum, it was a home where parents did not act consistently and reliably, a place where love was uncertain or conditional. For him or her, controlling others became the only certain way to predict their behavior. People can be very motivated to become control experts because an inability to predict behavior is absolutely intolerable for human beings and every other social animal*. (The fact that most people act predictably is literally what holds human societies together.)”


      thats actually true. ive never read that, but ive actually said it aloud several times. either you are in control, someone else is in control, or its chaos.

      theres nothing worse than being at the whim of others. chaos has its merits in that theres a need for someone to take the reigns which of course can be yourself.

      keeping people predictable and yourself unpredictable is the perfect balance to stay at an advantage in life and effectively communicate with people to get what you want most of the time.

      its not necessarily nefarious as most people love the fact that you are not predictable in a world of banality. They like you being able to predict what they really desire because they are afraid to communicate out of fear of rejection.

      Delete
    4. Read Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear". You'll enjoy it.

      They like you being able to predict what they really desire because they are afraid to communicate out of fear of rejection"

      Fuck, yeah.

      Delete
    5. Hey, A!!!

      I want you.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    6. Friendship can be a steady interest in another persons advancements without interfering.


      Best regards to North from Cnaym ;)

      Delete
    7. Friendship can be a steady interest in another persons advancements without interfering.


      Best regards to North from Cnaym ;)


      Thankyou. Perhaps that's the answer I needed.

      Delete
  20. Similarly, a lot of people who rely on empathy have a hard time understanding how those without it could make the same sorts of judgments or choices for which the empaths rely on it so heavily. Not only can we make the same judgments and choices, we sometimes can get there more accurately without the empathy, because the emotions are not clouding our moral judgment.

    The amount of people that would even notice a lack of empathy is slim to none, unless you were outright slicing up every cunt that looked like your mum.

    i dont get the articles in this blog where from its inception years ago has seemed to have some victim complex that sociopaths are facing when the reality is that most sociopaths are getting away with more than the common bloke.

    ive been dancing in the rain without getting wet for years. its become a common joke with the people who know me. its not just me. you can read about it. we are more likely to be paroled. more likely to be promoted. more likely to have good jobs. more likely to get early release. more likely to be handed authority. theres no disability here. this is an advantage and this blog needs to stop taking this bollocks poor little me sociopath role and start empowering people to become more ruthless, and to believe in themselves to the point where they are at the edge of being delusional. like a cut throat self help blog instead of a cry about peoples non existent beef with sociopaths.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. just to add to that, I just think the framework of comparing color blind retards who are at an obvious disadvantage to people who are fucking walking all over humanity like they are dirt is ridiculous. its like comparing the disadvantages of legless rugby players with the plight of the olympic gold champion. poor olympian, im sure it will be a stretch to find some advantage this bloke has, just like the legless fuck trying to punt the ball around in a fucking chair.

      Delete
    2. this is an advantage and this blog needs to stop taking this bollocks poor little me sociopath role and start empowering people to become more ruthless, and to believe in themselves to the point where they are at the edge of being delusional. like a cut throat self help blog instead of a cry about peoples non existent beef with sociopaths.

      Do any such blogs exist? All I've seen are ones that tell you to be more "dark triad".

      Delete
    3. I have always thought that the killer instinct cannot be taught. Either you instinctively know how to aim for and go right for the jugular, or you don't. Either your eye is trained to perceive and leverage vulnerability, or it isn't.

      But then, there's always martial arts.
      ;)



      Delete
    4. I was thinking of something like a blog by a sociopath that shows people that are sociopaths (but don't realize it because they're young, or think they're something else, or just stupid, or whatever) how to recognize it and develop their sociopathy.

      Delete
    5. really? because it seems more like a circle jerk than a path to power in here.

      Delete
    6. you can't teach someone instinct, that's something that comes from being in the field under fire.

      you can however change peoples way of thinking. i browsed through here earlier and i saw people talking about how they always see the good in people. thats a major weakness. its better to see the bad in people first. not to be a negative person at all, but just primal. are they a threat? can they be in the future? where are they weak?

      once you get that out of the way you can afford to have them show you what is so good about them that they are worthy of your time. make them prove themselves to you.

      Delete
    7. Ukan hello. I would consider many things to be more unwise than a weakness. No plan is fool proof. People can work very hard to gain your trust and still be up to no good. No one can always know exactly what to look for. It seems wiser to me to trust yourself first. To trust that you can take whatever is thrown your way. To be able to fight but not looking for a fight.

      Delete
    8. I think that's a good point.

      Trusting people blindly and seeing only the good in them opens you up to be taken advantage of. Just being aware of the possible threats that may come, even a little bit, reduces that chance, and you are better prepared to neutralize them.

      Should they prove themselves as trustworthy, and continue doing so, then great, no harm done, while on the other hand you are also better prepared for any trouble if that's not the case.

      Costs nothing but some thinking, and saves you trouble in the long run.

      Delete
    9. UKan,

      And again, seeing as you mentioned circles:
      While I have no desire to presume on your time, perhaps you might consider chatting on diverse topics with some others, in private. I hope so. It would be helpful if UKan provide a throwaway email address in order for further explanation to be private?
      with respect XK/KAT

      Delete
    10. why do that when i can walk in here, drop the mic, and disappear into the dark.

      Delete
    11. 8-) A predictable response. 8-/
      But I ask because your thinking has a great deal of merit. Call it selfishness on our part.
      Not all should disappear into the dark, except when expedient.

      Delete
  21. I would consider many things to be more unwise than a weakness. No plan is fool proof. People can work very hard to gain your trust and still be up to no good.

    i havent had it happen to me, and i exclusively interact with people for a living. i have all my life. some of it requires some trust on my part.

    people who exploit others look for the suckers. i can tell you right now that based on what you were saying earlier about looking for the good in people, you are exactly the kind of person they would fuck over.

    It seems wiser to me to trust yourself first.

    most people are their own worst enemy, so put that into context and tell me again how wise that is. you dont trust yourself, that much i know, and that is a step in the right direction. im taking this statement you made as an example of why you should not:

    I feel I've always had my own sort of colorblindness. Ive always searched for the good in people. Or maybe really i haven't-i was just not aware there was any other way to be.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Ukan I have no reason not to trust myself. If you can't trust yourself than who can you trust..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ukan I have no reason not to trust myself. If you can't trust yourself than who can you trust..

      no one

      with the mentality you have, i think you should work on doubt before you work on trust again. you need to doubt your positive judgement on people. get jaded. feel how sick the world and the people in it really are. see how ugly they really are.

      its not just the sociopaths that are tossers. the entire planet is filled with little wastes who are apathetic completely of the people around them. everyone is out for their own self interests. they have there little moments where they sit around jerking each others tears about something they hear in the news like some tot falling down a fucking well because her mum was a negligent cunt, so they can have their moments to prove their humanity. In reality though, they wont budge a fucking inch if it involves inconvenience, or risk, to help their common man.

      60% of adults can't go 10 minutes of conversation without lying.

      you pull the plug on a city and when those lights go out every bloke is out in the street burning shite, raping, and looting everything in sight.

      the difference between a sociopath and someone who isn't is mostly capability. give that fucktard the ability to lie better, fuck more girls, backstab their coworker, etc. and they will use that advantage in a heartbeat.

      get jaded. once you hit the bottom of that when you loath every fuck that walks the earth for being a complete wanker, then you can come back and laugh at how the entire world works.

      laugh at the predictability of it all. laugh at your man cheating on you because you already went out and got banged by 3 dudes the night before knowing he was going to do that. laugh at your friend flaking on you because you were never going to show up anyway. laugh at getting fucked over because they actually did work hard for it, so they deserve the win.

      then you can trust yourself. then you can trust other people because they are predictable and so are you.

      Delete
    2. Hey UKan,

      It's possible to realise all these things without being jaded.

      We're animals, plain and simple. We protect our own interests. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. All of life is opportunistic.

      What works best is living in accordance with our own nature, trusting in - and developing - the capacities we have. There's no joy in diminishing our own life in any way; for myself at least I'm happy to be better able to nourish others when I've first nourished myself.

      Then again, perhaps I was jaded most of my life, and am only now stepping into the sun.

      Delete
    3. I also agree that trust is based on predictability. What we generally mean is predictability + prediction of good intent.

      But we also say such things as "trust him to screw it up", "trust him to betray us"... etc

      Delete
  23. Hey, M.E.!!!

    :):):)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  24. It's possible to realise all these things without being jaded.

    It's possible you could also be the next person on the moon in the next ten years. But it's also very improbable.

    nobody is exempt from the pain of transitioning to become a better and more well rounded person. if you haven't experienced pain in that area then you are a fucking stump that thinks you are a tree. in the case where you think people are inherently good and you come to find out people are inherently selfish fucking animals you will be jaded. and that is a good thing. its one step closer to being a positive realist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ukan have you ever seen Fist Of The North Star? In a dystopian waste land civilization has collapsed. The masses split into two groups - one are bandits, predators and criminals. The other group are servile weak people at the mercy of the bandits. The only people not part of the two groups above are an elite few highly trained martial artists. The martial artists are intelligent, brave, noble and ruthless. Kenshiro and Raoh are two of these martial artists and although one is a conqueror (Raoh) and one is a savior (Ken) you respect them both because of their tremendous character and discipline. I think you'd like it because it portrays the masses as completely useless. Either they're petty and criminal or they're weak and powerless. People like you are the Kenshiro and Raohs.

      Delete
    2. Thank you.:)

      I haven't heard of that-thank you, for the recommendation.:)

      It does sound like something, I would like.:)

      You see, through my eyes.:)

      Delete
    3. Ah come on, grow some spine, will ya? It's always recommendations with you!

      You know what sounds good? My foot as a recommendation for your spineless ass!

      Delete
    4. "nobody is exempt from the pain of transitioning to become a better and more well rounded person.

      True.

      if you haven't experienced pain in that area then you are a fucking stump that thinks you are a tree.

      Apparently, even trees 'feel' the transition of growth through death, hence trees can communicate and do nourish the weak among them. Why would other trees feed a decapitated tree? Rather charming, I think

      https://www.ted.com/talks/suzanne_simard_how_trees_talk_to_each_other


      "in the case where you think people are inherently good and you come to find out people are inherently selfish fucking animals you will be jaded."

      Not all humans are selfish. Some truly sacrifice their own well being for others. And, though you may argue that some people do good things in order to feel good about themselves, that is not the case with all humans. I have seen even the worst criminal/addicts suddenly jump in to defend some dumb chump who opened their mouth to the wrong person, at the wrong time -- the dumb chump being me.

      "and that is a good thing. its one step closer to being a positive realist."

      Not being jaded is, I believe, a better way of being. Being jaded creates a wall between oneself and the world. And I should know, given that at present I am feeling quite jaded. Being jaded drains the ability to truly connect. To truly connect with other beings for no other reason than to simply experience their inner world, to touch and be touched by their life force, is for me the ultimate reason for living, the height of all things.

      To each their own, of course.

      The challenge for someone like myself, who doesn't give a crap about winning, conning or wielding power, is to face life and its darkness with eyes wide open, heart intact. I may be a fool but the journey does seem to me worth it: No one can steal, con or dominate my growing vision, what I've learned and am integrating into the depths of my being.

      I am curious about something Ukan. How do you find contentment while being filled with contempt? I'm not judging you, btw. At present, with the world going to shit, I have a lot of contempt, too; I don't like feeling that way and find it counterproductive.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    5. Ah, Mr Hyde, it's always a pleasure to read you.

      When we accept things for what they are, sans judgement and with cognition enough only to understand, we can experience life and relationship fully.

      Judgement blocks experience, slams the door in its face.

      It's a journey to accept experience enough to shift how we perceive and pre-empt threat. There is always a better way and it's by experience that we increase our capabilities. It's a blessing to have those around us who can demonstrate better ways or to stretch us.

      Delete
  25. Music for SW -- a pre-Valentine from Valerie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIf8DTVEzcc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcRtlj8KXT4

      Delete
    2. https://youtu.be/RF0HhrwIwp0

      Delete
    3. Valerie-

      Thank you, for the "Pre-Valentine"!!!

      That is "new music" to me, which is always appreciated.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. Hey Damaged-

      Thank you, for sharing that song!!!

      That one is "a new one for me", as well.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    5. Hey North-

      Thanks for sharing that "Kings of Leon"song!!!

      You know, how much I love that one.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  26. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdGFtwCNBE

    Val

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Val-

      Thank you, for that song, too!!!

      I've thought about sharing that song several times now-you beat me to it.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  27. unrelated to the blog post but there's a new website coming called FemalePsychopath.com


    "The #1 resource for education on female psychopaths and other cluster B personality disorders in women."

    I'm hoping for a dating section.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Damaged-

      Thanks for the FYI.:)

      I haven't had a chance to check it out yet-is M.E. creating a new website, or is it someone else???

      "I'm hoping for a dating section."

      I thought, that you liked me.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. I'm hoping for a dating section."

      With who?

      Delete
    3. I bet M.E. is creating a new site, with a dating section, to add to her harem...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  28. Classic reason for not owning a gun.

    And yeah, I got sympathy for the devil. There's a devil in everyone who needs a bit of grace.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_ZY8Bf_UeQ

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've been thinking about getting a gun, recently.

      I love that movie!!!

      Keanu Reeves and Charlize Theron are hot, and I got a girl crush on Connie Nielsen, after watching that movie.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  29. "They are afraid to communicate out of fear of rejection."

    Interesting! Are you speaking of neurotypicals or sociopaths? Or both?

    The sociopath's MO is to manipulate until they get what they want, never clearly communicating what they are after in the first place, but letting the other person believe that they came to the conclusion themselves.

    Sociopath 101: never disclose your intentions.

    Who is afraid of rejection again?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Who is afraid of rejection again?"

      The answer can't be sociopaths, since they have no fear...

      ~Vegas

      Delete

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