Tuesday, July 15, 2014

Famous sociopaths (part 2)

Another recent find is the artist Amedeo Modigliani, as featured in a recent NY Times article:
  • A recent biography "recasts the artist’s character from dissolute victim to active performer, one who controlled the way his life would be viewed by his contemporaries, and by ­history."
  • "[H]e tended to carry himself like a prince. And the experience of having survived a series of childhood health crises, including tuberculosis, only increased his sense of exceptionalism.
  • "Unsurprisingly, he viewed artists as privileged beings. At 17, he wrote that as a species they had “different rights, different values than do normal, ordinary people because we have different needs which put us — it has to be said and you must believe it — above their moral standards."
  • In seeking financial support: "Sometimes it came in sustained relationships with women like the British journalist and poet Beatrice Hastings. Hastings, under the name Alice Morning, wrote a running account of the Parisian art scene for an avant-garde journal called The New Age. She had a caregiver’s temperament (she collected stray animals and nursed wounded wasps back to health) and money she didn’t mind sharing, and she liked to get high. She was everything he needed.
  • "[H]e consciously used intoxicants as a cover to hide a “great secret,” that being the recurrence of his tuberculosis. . . . Modigliani, terrified of the social ostracism that would result if he were known to have the highly contagious disease, deliberately fostered a reputation as an alcoholic and addict to prevent detection. This cover allowed him to freely drink the wine that soothed his coughing, use the drugs that gave him energy to work — his output of paintings surged in his last years — and pass off as drunk and disorderly any irritable or violent outbursts. . . . [T]he very idea of someone keeping quiet about a lethal and contagious disease raises serious ethical issues. Did he ever warn his friends, and his countless lovers, about their risk of infection from him? We have no evidence one way or the other."
  • "[O]ne of his dealers, described him as 'all charm, all impulsiveness, all disdain.' The writer Max Jacob, who was very much part of Modigliani’s bohemian crowd, called him 'the most unpleasant man I knew. Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked.'"
  • Cheated on his pregnant, teenage girlfriend, who killed herself days after he died.

209 comments:

  1. "Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked."

    That's about what you'd expect.

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  2. soooooooo.........ummmm.........I went to the store today.....again.....um...... yeah....I, um...bought some more bread......um....I also bought some penut butter.....I....um....well I was trying to make my mind up about buying penut butter or ketchup.....um...but yeah, I felt like having a penut butter sandwich sooooooo....I just bought penut butter in the end.....you know.....um....well I though about getting the both, but.....um...well, I didn't want to go to crazy....you know?.....yeah...

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  3. "But then, as Secrest repeatedly acknowledges, much about Modigliani's life and personality is guesswork."

    Caravaggio, on the other hand, has an impressive police dossier.

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  4. In before "No he's clearly a Narc" comment.

    Thanks for the other link, Tortured Artist.

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  5. BPD not ruthless

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  6. Lol @ Note.

    He sounds like your typical 19th - early 20th century artist to me.

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  7. Sorry to tell all you "sociopaths" but to be clinically diagnosed it takes hours of interviewing, faggots.

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  8. The first Medusa avatar that I used to use. ---->

    Caravaggio.

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  9. You are soo deep.

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  10. haha i like this dude.
    Nice pic Medusa.

    i won't go on...

    :D

    i'm sweaty and need a shower...

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  11. Viewed a Caravaggio exhibit in Florence last August at the Uffuzi. Very dark in tone and mood and yet very exciting. I brought home that Medusa image of his in a pin.


    I wear it to to church.


    Just kidding . . . Maybe not.

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  12. @Anon... BPD not ruthless? WTF?

    Caravaggio sounds fascinating. Nice pic Medusa.

    '...all charm, all impulsiveness, all disdain.'

    I don't know why but I like this distinction. I think a lot of anons here forget that to be charming is also a mark of the socio. Not just angry and lashing out.

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  16. [fixed link, brain problems]

    This is another painting that I feel particularly attached to.

    Goya's output went dramatically darker after he became seriously ill and deaf. He painted this on a wall in his house after he basically completely shunned society and humanity.

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  17. Casey's bully, budding sociopath, has no remorse, claims self-defense. Just look at him and his body language.

    With crocodile-teared, half-dead, toothless parents like that, and his claims of being bullied in the past, it's no surprise.

    He took way too long to answer the question: "Will you bully again?"

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  18. His is learned sociopathy, he is thrash.

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  19. It's the best, clearest, most no-doubt-about-it example of sociopathy I have seen yet.

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  20. Anon, who didn't "learn" their sociopathy? Fool. They're all sociopaths. If you find one you think is not a sociopath, they're just better at it than you.

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  21. Who gives a fuck if he a sociopath? What is a sociopath without his narcissism? If he had narcissism he would have gotten those teeth fixed, ugly little bastard.

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  22. Ha! Or was that "tragic" gold? That's what Cronus said as he devoured his children. Just ask Goya.

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  23. soulful you are a total idiot. you are socio bait.

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  24. how old are you medusa?

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  25. He probably is a sociopath, but the dumb bank robbing criminal type.

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  26. You sound like some lady to me, to be honest.

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  27. What about Joel Steinberg?

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  28. I'm Adam's aunt.

    I've been totally playing him all this time.

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  29. "soulful you are a total idiot. you are socio bait."

    Bait and hook to you. Its all one game idiot.

    Medusa LOL!

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  30. This one is a good example, M.E. I'm fairly sure he would fit the profile.

    But if you look at the second passage about him...Then imagine this was today, but he was known as an artist - not as sociopathic/psychopathic/Antisocial (<-- which he definitely also was).

    Even today - or maybe even more today than before - if you're an artist, it's okay if you say all the things that we - the psychopaths and Antisocials - typically say, and you will be seen as merely eccentric and a great personality, 'larger than life' and all that.

    Yeah, "Such a CHARMING man!", says some.
    "What a HORRIBLY insensitive man, how can HE create such great art!??", says another.

    Right. Some of us know the answer to that, right guys?

    .....

    Anon 8:11,

    "Sorry to tell all you "sociopaths" but to be clinically diagnosed it takes hours of interviewing, faggots."

    Haha. Were you diagnosed after a few hours' interview?

    Okay, I'm not a diagnosed Sociopath, so I wouldn't know for sure. But Sociopathy is grouped with Psychopathy, which is something I do know about in regard to diagnosis.

    My point is I think it takes a bit more than some hours of interview. Furthermore there's extensive research into your past AND interviews with people who have known you. This is needed because so much of it relates to behavior.

    But again - don't shoot me if I'm wrong. It may be that you can be diagnosed a Sociopath in a few hours. What do I know, just sounds preposterous to me. ;)

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  31. Haven:

    "I think a lot of anons here forget that to be charming is also a mark of the socio. Not just angry and lashing out."

    Funny you should mention that. I've seen it so many times on Antisocial fora and blogs i.e., that people plain out do not believe someone who claims to have AsPD merely because he's acting not only normal and friendly, but too friendly, too nice!

    Sometimes it seems it'd be a good thing to be perceived an artist. You can do more or less whatever you want, be a real asshole, and nobody will accuse of you of being a psychopath. You'll be the 'Suffering Artist' who can't help it.

    Actually, I've done this on occasion over the years. But obviously not as a persistent persona I could carry with me as a passport to 'do-what-you-like-however-you-like Land'.

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  32. sociopaths are only nice when they want something from you and you aren't looking for anything zhawq.

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  33. I thought you said you were diognosed whe you were eighteen, Zhawq.

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  34. Also, what exactly do you think the difference between psychopathy and sociopathy is, Zhawq?

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  35. Charm is arms war with a see.

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  36. Sometimes it seems it'd be a good thing to be perceived an artist.

    This week in music news:

    "The last year has been a wild ride for Hawaiian musician Bruno Mars (nee Peter Gene Hernandez). The newly minted pop singer has ascended to the heights of fame, penned the hook for Cee-Lo's smash hit "Fuck You," picked up seven Grammy nominations and one win, netted triple-platinum sales, and was arrested in Vegas for cocaine possession.

    "I'm not gonna preach that I'm a role model," he told GQ in his defense. "I'm a fucking musician! But I've learned people are watching, so don't do nothing stupid." Luckily for Mars, the prosecutor who charged him has a secret of his own, and now everybody "nose" it. Clark County Deputy District Attorney David Charles Schubert was arrested on Saturday for possession of...COCAINE. Apparently the irony was inescapable."

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  37. The name Bruno Mars is so narc.

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  38. The writer's depiction of Modigliani's personal life sounds similar in some ways to Rossetti's – he was a charming, cruel man who like Modigliani, and Picasso, had blood on his hands from his lover's suicide.

    How much of Modigliani and Rossetti's behaviour, as well as that of their doomed lovers, was fuelled by the social structure of their time is of course debatable though.

    In Modigliani's case to have tuberculosis was to be viewed as "a stigma and a crime, and that the culprit must be subjected to all manner of indecencies and cruel treatment."

    Picasso was an(other) egotistical, abusive artist who drove women to madness...

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  39. And Rodin drove Camille Claudel to madness. She started as his student, then lover and muse. After their affair ended he made sure his power and influence prevented her success as a fellow artist. Badass- set the bomb . . . and watch it smolder until it blows.

    The badass and madness seem to attract each other. What does this say about the human condition?

    Plenty.

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  40. Frida Kahlo/Diego Rivera

    She was a tough cookie as well, though.

    "I was born a bitch. I was born a painter."

    Jean-Paul Sartre/Simone de Beauvoir

    Manipulative relationship. She also groomed girls so he could have affairs with them (and she slept with them as well). They were both a couple of paedophiliac dicks, always competing with each other in love, and using everyone around them.

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  41. I'm am beginning to see perfection in a pattern.

    Most human dramas in regards to sex and death will be remembered only among family members. Yet the infamous seem to do it its on rocket propelled steriods.
    Kinda of a badass immortality.

    Fear of death behind it? Or lust of impulse?

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  42. Voltaire and Emilie du Chatelet also an interesting match. Broke all the rules. Worked for them. Just as brilliant, not as twisted.

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  43. What's particularly interesting about Sartre and de Beauvoir is that they were very deliberately bent on living amoral lives, as per their philosophies. A couple of the very few philosophers who actually attempted to live what they preach, instead of merely sitting in their rooms all their lives being all schizoid with their chins in their hands.

    Diogenes was another good example of walking the walk.

    And what's more manipulative and BPDish/HPDish than Van Gogh sending his ear to a prostitute?

    Ad nauseam...

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  44. this place ain't what it used to be.

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  45. 8========D al ur moms hahahahahahah those bitches love it (;

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  46. Used to be when?

    A month ago or a year ago?

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  47. i liked this place better when it wasnt filled with sociopaths the wannabe socios may be losers but atleast their long boring pile of crap sentances are interesting

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  48. just saying that it used to be interesting not so long ago. there was arguments and people telling stories and about two hundred comments on every thread. now you people are talking about musc and art and all types of boring crap and half the regulars have disappeared or almost disappeared.

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  49. i liked this place better when it wasnt filled with sociopaths

    well that's what's going on now anon. the real and interesting sociopaths are hardly around anymore. they don't talk about all this intellectual trash but they're alot more interesting anyway.

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  50. but atleast their long boring pile of crap sentances are interesting

    long boring and interesting? wtf?!

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  51. havent you read hare? psychopaths contradict themselves every time they speak

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  52. i doubt they'd be so aware of it though. nice try.

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  53. Favorite words of a sociopathic world

    fuck, boring, faggot, idiot
    fuck, boring, faggot, idiot
    fuck, boring, faggot, idiot
    fuck, boring, faggot, idiot
    fuck, boring, faggot, idiot
    fuck, boring, faggot, idiot

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  54. never fear Remember! Je suis ici mon amie avec mes pile de drivelle merde! <3

    mais, tu ne pas parle au moi! :DDDD

    D'accord. Au revoir. Ou est la piscine?
    Merci.

    bahahahahaha

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  55. this place is for high functioners dumbfuck

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  56. shut up you faggot. and while your at it you can go fuck yourself. you boring idiot.

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  57. My dick is so small and fat but I heart it

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  58. fuck, boring, faggot, idiotMarch 23, 2011 at 8:31 PM

    This is not the pool.

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  59. SW has just reach a new low. Hang your heads in shame, people.

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  60. I can't feel shame but I'll hang it anyway

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  61. I can make you feel shame and then I eat you.

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  62. ill make u feel shame when i rape you in front of ur family faggot.

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  63. Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked
    Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked
    Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked
    Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked
    Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked
    Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked
    Proud, angry, insensitive, wicked

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  64. I can make it next friday if you are available.

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  65. Yes, there are countless examples of bohemians behaving badly. Many people enjoy romanticising and mythologising antisocial and self-destructive behaviour when people are deemed to be engaging in it because they're suffering for their (or someone else's) art - linking abuse to love often lets them legitimise it as an act of passion. Sentimentalism as escapism aside, I think such tales also serve as a kind of oppression porn for many physically or emotionally oppressed women. I don't believe that Modigliani was necessarily a sociopath because to my mind the writer too closely follows the literary lores of the tortured artist trope when evoking his spirit *shrugs* I'll dip into it as a work of factual fiction though.

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  66. I agree in a very limited extent. There has been a large influx of conversation about music and art, two things I like, but not here.

    If I can't get my fill with something on topic, I'd rather read some obvious embellishment, silly stories and braggadocio than read about someone's art opinion. You're boring all of us to an early grave, as if we needed any help with that. If that's your goal, Mission Fucking Accomplished.

    Go home, the war is done. For the love of god, let us bury our dead. The smell is unbearable.

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  67. well Remember???, aren't you proud of yourself. you think your so great dont you you faggot. well that makes me angry! angry enough to do some wicked shit to you! your not great, your just a boring insensitive idiot and i will fuck you up.

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  68. I am so overused. I am a slave. Can you use another word?

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  69. We need more posts about rape and murder, fuck these slutty beepers,, it's our site

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  70. What the fuck? This Faggot was the old fashion version of jim Morrison and we are calling him a Socio? What the fuck? We shouldn't glorify self harming bitches like these.

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  71. i liked this place better when it wasnt filled with sociopaths the wannabe socios may be losers but atleast their long boring pile of crap sentances are interesting

    Apparently no one got the intentional humor in this. There's like 4 jokes contained in this one non-sentence.

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  72. This is a disgrace next we will be calling bob Dylan a sociopath.

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  73. Mr. Rodgers is the next sociopath in (part 3). The way he put on those shoes, and red sweater. He raped and pillaged me with those eyes.

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  74. Mr. Roger's was kinda creepy. he freaked me out, anyway. Who the hell was he, saying he was so happy to be my neighbor when he not my neighbor or even knew I existed. And that damn cat with crack-head voice and that ugly ass king dude?

    Come on. Total sociopath.

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  75. Mission Fucking AccomplishedMarch 23, 2011 at 9:20 PM

    According to news tonight the war has just begun, Notable-san.

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  76. so bored of this shitMarch 23, 2011 at 9:51 PM

    nearly everyone in the world is a sociopath cocksuckers and empaths are in the minority. some of us are just better at hiding it than others. if you shop for groceries like a tool and eat palm hearts its your own fault your out. and yeah if you wear a suit and own a paint brush or pen or guitar your fucked. smarten up asslickers.

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  77. There's a lot of people who could easily qualify for ASPD. It's basically the formal diagnosis for "Dickbag".

    Technically, Ssociopathy isn't formally recognized, and Psychopathy is almost exclusively diagnosed and referenced in regards to recidivist criminals.

    I have a hunch about something regarding that, but I will probably flesh it out at my own blog in the next day or two.

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  78. How come you never have any braggadocio stories to tell, Note? Besides the one were you
    almost were going to light a co-workers shirt on fire? That was so badass hardcore, mang.

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  79. How come you're still alive? How you managed to get to your age without someone strangling you is baffling and deserves an answer.

    I don't talk about a lot of the things I do, have done, and intend to do. The why should be simple enough. I don't share them here, and I don't share them in private either, as a few could probably attest to if they so pleased.

    Making up stories is infinitely easier than hiding truths.

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  80. Keeping secrets is braggadocio enough. Keeps the grin real.

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  81. Hah. I love it. You are so banal and predictable, and so easy to control.

    Kindling to the spark. And guess who holds the lighter.

    Instead of whining about how much you are threatened by me, how about telling us a good story? I'm sure you must have plenty of stories you could tell without getting you in trouble. If you have big secret stories as you are trying to imply, then you must at least have some smaller ones. I thought this was the only place in the world where you could 'be yourself'?

    Why not make up some stories at least if you really think you are important enough that you need to wear your proverbial tin hat? Oh yeah, I forgot, you have no imagination.

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  82. To quote a great man: "Whatever, bitch."

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  83. You just whine and call everything boring or stupid when you don't know anything about the subject being discussed because you have nothing to say, and that pisses you off.

    Now you are pretending like you can't be controlled by being all flippant simply because I called you out for being easy bait and for being predictable. How predictable.

    I am literally laughing out loud as I type this.

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  84. "You just whine and call everything boring or stupid when you don't know anything about the subject being discussed because you have nothing to say, and that pisses you off."

    Projection, much?

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  85. Elucidate. As I do not recall ever calling out any conversation as 'boring' or 'stupid'.

    Otherwise you are again trying to usurp my brain and my words, to failing results.

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  86. I can't help that you've melted your memory away with weed. That's your own personal problem, one that I have no interest in alleviating.

    PS: Your Sociopath Strap-On is on backwards.

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  87. House of cards peopled by straw men.

    As always.

    I suggest you brush up on you Vaknin.

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  88. you two. lordy. if this was real life i'd be suggesting you get a room. ;)
    don't mind me, i'm just enjoying the view and enjoying my first hayfever symptoms of the year. hella fun.

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  89. Medusa said...
    "Insert painfully boring retort here."

    You might be onto something.

    Maybe.

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  91. I hope she isn't opposed to being on the receiving end of erotic asphyxiation. I have rubber tubes, soft pillows, and good old hemp rope. Short on leather though, but I could cannibalize an old belt.

    I'll make sure you are well satisfied before we get to that point. And I'll be careful. Trust me.

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  92. Jesus, are you trying to totally gross me out? Ugh.

    Note needs a good pegging for sure, but I'd only consider doing it with a 3+ mile long pole.

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  93. Ugh, Note, shut up. I can't believe you are even entertaining the idea, even in internet reality.

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  94. I can't believe you aren't. You're missing out.

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  95. Are you hot? Like, REALLY hot? And a little creepy looking?

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  96. Or at least extremely sexy? Don't lie, now.

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  97. Considering my prospect is a dismembered gorgon, I think you can settle for good looking/handsome and devious. Extremely hot and creepy? Can't help you there.

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  99. Interesting. Back in my 'composer' days I referenced a Berlioz theme/melody in one of my pieces. One of the cheesier moments of my musical history, but it was quite effective in pleasing my teacher as I knew it would be.

    I'M SO PRETENTIOUS.

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  100. I think I actually played out the super crazy hot/way creepy guy to an almost caricature-y extent at this point. I've already reached the top of that mountain.

    On to something else.

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  102. I will make a Note of it, Soulful. The book.

    I have yet to meet the man who deserves to hear the most beautiful music of which I am aware.

    In a darkened room. Prone. Still. No movement.

    Whoever that person is, if he ever arrives, or exists, will be treated to an experience that cannot be replicated.

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  103. Her mother's $2000 investment paid off.

    "Friday Night" should be dedicated to notable and good looking/handsome and devious types.

    Fun, Fun, Fun, etc.

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  104. The poor little beeper notme, always combining fighting and romance. Such a retard lol.

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  105. Notable is a corny douchebag who never did shit, he isn't even a narcissist.

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  106. Notable is UKans bitch, he always has been. I like how Misanthrope, Adam and UKan actually do shit when they aren't on the Internet, Notable never has a story to tell, of course unless he made it up.

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  107. Not able is the black sheep, real socios don't get answered back.

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  108. I doubt Notable has any sort of real life. He's almost always hanging around this blog, his own and other people's. He just sits on the computer all day.

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  109. People should seek out some escoteric society to be a part of.
    People have to retrain thier minds to think in a different way.
    In an "inner" way. People are too "outer directed," and cannot be
    consistantly happy because "outer" fortunes raise and fall.
    Buddhasm is the best philosphy to follow because, it says it is
    your REACTION (Which is INSIDE you) is the problem, and NOT the
    event itself.

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  110. I see more evidence of narcissism than sociopathy in this post.

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  111. Folks can be insensitive little shits without being socios? Most people like to "blabber in groups", about nothing. Glib crap. Young folks dress and behave like the dollar millionaires they see in tv-reality shows, same sunglasses & same silly wee dogs. Surely that´s psychopathic? But the majority cannot have this mental condition? Fakes, frauds, impostors, wanna-bees, chameleons & "rock-stars" with no hits or stage experience..

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  112. Just realizing what I believe to be caring and empathetic qualities (or ways of interacting and listening to others) are perhaps sociopathic qualities, it just translates to others as me being empathetic... I think its just me doing a good job.

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  113. What I'm saying is certain specific sociopathic qualities can come across to others as being very empathetic and caring. Its how I take care, anyways.

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  114. What exactly are the social rules of sociopopathworld.com. I want to make sure not to commit any faux pas :)

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    Replies
    1. Firstly, spell the S word right :)

      Second, don't come on here mouthing off about conspiracy theories then whine when no-one believes you;

      Thirdly, (the memory of) Ukan must be butt-licked at all times;

      Fourth, if Aspie ever comes on here, allow him or her to post links to random songs in peace;

      Fifth, ignore 'tee hee', no matter how massive the gaps in the comments become;

      And seventhly, respect The Book.

      Any more?

      Delete
    2. Do not doubt the fact that bob is a socopath, and ignore the random Dr. Whatever gratitude messages about how he saved a family.

      Delete
    3. I didn't know Bob was a sociopath... :P

      Delete
  115. BTW, do sociopaths ever make fun of themselves? I always make fun of myself after some borderline episode.

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    Replies
    1. My friend makes fun of himself when he is alone with me. More and more actually. I have not heard him otherwise. Perhaps it is the mirror thing again. I make fun of myself all the time.

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    2. That's interesting about your sociopath friend. I would like to know about other sociopaths too. Hopefully some answer :) That's great that you make fun of yourself. I always do too :):) As borderlines we have very dramatic personalities. It's not all bad. We're lots of fun too. I hate that the good stuff gets ignored by professionals. Borderlines are some of the funnest people in the world.

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    3. Self-deprecating humor is easy enough, and most people laugh and like it in real life. I use it and non-self (other people) deprecating humor when the right situation and phrasing comes along. It's a lot easier than delivering jokes, and more reliable, usually.

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    4. I like tongue-in-cheek humor, black humor, intellectual humor, and satire. I always hope people pick up on my tongue in cheekiness, but not everyone does. Some people think I'm serious, and must think I'm downright diabolical.

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    5. Well, I am looking forward to meeting borderlines now. One of the main reasons I like my sociopath friend is that he is fun! If it was not for the fun part, I am not sure I would ever have qualified him as a friend. Too high maintenance!

      Dr. G., can you explain a bit more about borderline personalities? They seem close to sociopaths?

      Delete
    6. Bobby,
      When am I going to see some of that fabled humour?
      I think self deprecating humour is pretty dicey. Has to be actually funny and relatable. Or you're much more likely to come off as a sad bastard, desperate for a little love.
      Awww. Cuuute!
      That's why many people laugh-avoid awkwardness :)


      Dr Ginger,
      "Life literally abounds in comedy if you just look around you." Mel Brooks
      Don't I know it.

      Delete
    7. Self deprecating humor has it's uses, but you have to be careful not to cross the line into desperation. A proper joke should still allow the audience to respect you afterwards.

      Delete
    8. That is because how I write here differs from how I talk to people in real life. It's not the same, just as it is for most people who write here. That is nothing new or unusual - it's a given, obviously.

      Delete
    9. Old and Wise,

      I thought a long time about how I was going to answer your question. You’re sort of opening the flood gates with this one because I could go on and on, but I will do my best to provide the abridged version, but the abridged version may still take up three different comments : ) Also, I can’t guarantee that this will be completely organized, and not go all over the place : )

      I will first provide the clinical description of borderline personality disorder. Borderline personality disorder is characterized by a fear of abandonment/rejection, lability, identity disturbance, chameleon behaviors, chronic feelings of emptiness, black and white thinking, risk taking, impulsivity, hostility, and being empathy compromised was recently added to the revised version of the DSM.

      BPD is generally divided in to two categories; high functioning and low functioning. The high functioning borderlines usually don’t engage in self-harm, are often able to disguise their symptoms, and only reveal it to those closest to them such as raging behind closed doors, and their aggression is often aimed outwards rather than inwards towards the self. In low functioning bpd you see self-harm, more drug and alcohol abuse, and suicide attempts. I fall in to the high functioning category.

      Delete
    10. I was diagnosed in the 90’s when I was 14 years old. I was frequently in trouble with the law, violence, problems following rules in school, and I dropped out 3 days in to the 9th grade. It’s generally recommended now that you don’t diagnose anyone with bpd until over the age of 18.

      I enrolled in college at 17 (didn’t actually start until 18 though), and knew I wanted my Ph.D. in psychology. I remember my first psychology course reading in the text book about how Ted Bundy had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I thought that was very interesting considering my diagnosis. The next semester I took another psychology course, and yet another text book mentions Ted Bundy, and BPD. I tried my best to fit it in to my understanding of bpd at that time, but it just wasn’t making sense. I think most would agree now that Ted Bundy did NOT have bpd. Nonetheless I became fascinated by understanding the differences in the violence seen in bpd and the violence seen in aspd. I studied serial killers, and watched interviews over and over. I ultimately came to the conclusion that violence in aspd tends to be predatory, and violence in bpd tends to often be emotion based.

      After years of studying psychology, and interacting with numerous borderlines, I started to realize psychology doesn’t have all of the answers, and started to develop some of my own ideas about bpd. Psychologists are trained to hone in on pathology, and examine one aspect of a person while ignoring the rest. I started to realize there is a lot that is being ignored about bpd, and many of the traits are actually positive. They tend to be unconventional thinkers and think outside the box, the majority of people with bpd that I have met have had the most fascinating lives because they get themselves in to all kinds of things, they tend to often be above average intelligence, when they are really interested about a subject they become very enthusiastic, and their enthusiasm can draw you in. They can be the funnest people in the world. I know chameleon behaviors are often pathologized, but I can think of how it would benefit the individual, and even be useful for certain professions. Think of spies.

      Delete
    11. Back to the violence seen in bpd though, it’s popular right now to examine things from an evolutionary perspective. I can see how some of the traits might have evolved in bpd. Every society is predicated on violence. People with bpd would have made great warriors. They are naturally antiauthoritarian, and can become violent if you try to control them. I have worked with borderlines who have become violent in hospitals when unsuspecting staff didn’t understand what they were working with. I understand borderline pathology a little better, and know to NEVER try to control a borderline. It could potentially be dangerous. Although we have constructed a society where we are highly concerned with safety, security, and the rights of others (which I’m not against by the way), the fact is it’s violence that got us here in the first place so now this stuff is vestigial, and just sort of left over, and a lot of people with bpd are stuck trying to control impulses, and not engage in any acts of violence. It’s not working for everyone though, and the stats are rather high for the number of people with bpd who engage in violence. Something I noticed about my interactions with borderlines is they often use this war-like language such as frequently identifying people they are angry with as the “enemy”, or they enjoy reading about war. One guy in particular comes to mind who was in prison for killing someone, and loved studying ancient Japanese warfare. He was highly articulate and well read. I have zero interest in the subject, but his enthusiasm for it sucked me, and suddenly I wanted to know everything about it. They’re good with that.
      People with bpd, just like in aspd, have the warrior gene. It makes sense why psychologists feel this is one of the most difficult populations to work with. They’re dealing with nature’s natural warriors : )

      So yes there are similarities in bpd and aspd, but there are also some significant differences. People with bpd have too much emotion whereas people with aspd don’t have enough. The behaviors however, often appear similar. Not all borderlines are violent though so I don’t want to perpetuate the idea that you need to be fearful of every borderline out there, but to a certain degree it is a part of this population.

      Delete
    12. There are plenty of non-violent, high-functioning borderlines in society, which are another understated sub-group. Though in truth, when most people think personality disorders, there is a gravitation towards a stereotyped low-functioning variety.

      Delete
    13. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    14. Dr. G., Thank you for opening the flood gates. I will read more about BPD, with news eyes and keeping in mind what you have just shared. It is, after all, coming from the horse's mouth. You are a psychiatrist and you "suffer" from BPD, is that right?

      Another question. How do you describe a borderline episode, and is there something similar with ASPD?

      Delete
    15. As far as ASPD goes, it doesn't really have an episodic component to it. Ginger can go into detail about it, but generally in terms of radical behavior, that happens when you are under stimulated and/or don't care at the moment (impulsivity with apathy). For example, I skipped work yesterday, because I wanted to and was able to talk my way out of it. It isn't really a mood shift, but a choice.

      Delete
    16. haha yes, straight from the horses mouth :):) But I'm a psychologist, not a psychiatrist, and I'm not sure I suffer from my bpd, I have fun with it :P I can't always say the same for other borderlines though. In all seriousness though, I try to find acceptable outlets for some of my natural tendencies. One such way is through activism. Borderlines can be little destructive hurricanes. With activism you are destroying a paradigm or a framework that is hurting a certain group of people. It requires aggression, and you get to break the rules. If you are a social activist you don't have to adhere to the norms because you're trying to change them. It's really quite perfect for someone with bpd :)

      Delete
  116. Does anyone appreciate black humor here? I'm looking for people that appreciate black humor...they're so few and far between :/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why not share some?
      I love groaners too :)

      A sadist, a masochist, a murderer, a necrophile,
      a zoophile and a pyromaniac are all sitting on a bench in a mental institution.
      "Let's have sex with a cat?" asked the zoophile.
      "Let's have sex with the cat and then torture it," says the sadist.
      "Let's have sex with the cat, torture it and then kill it," shouted the murderer.
      "Let's have sex with the cat, torture it, kill it and then have sex with it again," said the necrophile.
      "Let's have sex with the cat, torture it, kill it, have sex with it again and then burn it," said the pyromaniac.
      There was silence, and then the masochist says: "Meow."

      Delete
    2. I like this joke.
      But i pity the mofo who tries to have sex with a cat in real life.

      Delete
    3. haha...ok in that case I won't hold back on my black humor in sociopathworld :):)

      Delete
    4. Lol Bite me!! ;)

      Go ahead Dr. G, where all ears. It's SW familia, we'll appreciate it.

      Delete
    5. Maybe just a tad pathological,hmm?

      Delete
    6. Q: What's the slowest thing on 80 wheels?

      A: A Mexican funeral with only two sets of jumper cables.

      My girlfriend is into some really strange roleplay when we have sex. She always insists on pretending to be 14 years old.
      I don't get why, she'll be 14 in a couple of years anyway.

      Why did Princess Diana cross the road?
      She wasn't wearing her seatbelt.

      Woman delivers baby. Doctor takes the baby, and throws it, smashing around the hospital room, drop-kicking it, etc. Mother starts freaking out, being held back by nurses, begging "WHYYYY!!??". Doctor holds baby upside down by the ankle and says "I'm just fucking with you, it was born dead".

      One day, I was walking down the road and I saw a black guy holding a T.V, and I was like "Damn! That looks like mine!", so I ran back all the way home and nope, lo and behold, it was still there, shining my shoes.

      What did the North Tower say to the South Tower?
      I'll talk to you later. I have to catch a plane. (9 out of 11 americans will get this joke).

      A seal walks into a club.

      Lol I’m such a nerd :P

      Delete
    7. An old Arab lived close to New York City for more than 40 years. He would have loved to plant potatoes in his garden, but he is alone, old and weak. His son is in college in Paris, so the old man sends him an e-mail. He explains the problem: "Beloved son, I am very sad, because I can't plant potatoes in my garden. I am sure, if only you were here, you would help and dig up the garden for me. I love you, Your Father." The following day, the old man receives a response e-mail from his son: "Beloved Father, please don't touch the garden. It's there that I have hidden 'the THING'. I love you, too, Ahmed" At 4pm the US Army, The Marines, the FBI, the CIA and the Rangers visit the house of the old man, take the whole garden apart, search every inch, but can't find anything. Disappointed they leave the house. A day later, the old man receives another e-mail from his son. "Beloved Father, I hope the garden is dug up by now and you can plant your potatoes. That's all I could do for you from here. I love you, Ahmed."

      Delete
    8. Ha! I love groaners!

      It's late. There are 2 guys putting up a sign on a bridge:
      Stop! The end is near! To proceeed is to surely be doomed!!

      A man driving rolls down his window and flips them off "Screw you, you fucking religious nuts!"
      A couple of seconds later there's a huge splash.

      One of the guys turn to the other. "I told you we should have just tried 'Stop. Bridge out', but noooo, you had to be a drama queen"

      Delete
    9. Could it be true as they say, that women have no sense of humour.

      Delete
    10. lolol luv the one about the garden. hahahah @ the bridge

      Delete
    11. A man is horny, but tired of crying when he masturbates.
      Goes to a bar and picks up a creature that looks like it's been around a few blocks.

      Being the discerning gentleman, he dives right in bareback. But it's no good. Her vagina is like sandpaper, it's so dry.
      But there's no lube, nothing.

      Just as he's about to start crying again, she tells him "I have an idea!" And runs into the bathroom.
      Comes out a few minutes later and it's brilliant. So wet they go at it like a pair of bunnies on a Viagra cocktail.

      Afterwards he simply has to know what she did in the bathroom.
      She looks at him with a happy little smile and says "I just picked the scabs and let the pus flow"


      Aah, love...

      Delete
    12. LOL that's so gross

      Delete
    13. That last one XD... I think I might have killed her in that situation
      (Especially when assuming she had somr sort of std).

      Delete
    14. A young woman dies of unknown questionable circumstances. A funeral service is held. While carrying her casket out a pall bearer accidentally hits a wall and hears a faint moan. They open the casket up and she's actually alive. She lives for another 10 years and dies again, of equally questionable circumstances. They hold another funeral for her. As the pallbearers start to carry her out, the husband timidly raises his hands and says, " Umm... this time, watvh out for hhe walls."

      Delete
    15. One day an old woman realizes that she has seen and done everything there is to do in this earth. She decides that its time for her to depart from this world. She chooses to do away with herself by putting a bullet through her heart. Not wanting to make a mistake she calls her phyician and asks him the exact location of the heart. The Dr tells her that it is 2 inches below the left nipple. She gives her thanks and proceeds to take care of business. After careful positioning she pulls the trigger and yells out in pain at the top of her lungs. When the police arrives after being phoned by a neighbor, they find her passed out feom blood loss, with a bullet hole in her left knee.

      Delete
    16. Hahaha!! That one is hilarious.
      At least she didn't end up "taking the easy way out" ;)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIeiLo08JoA

      Delete
    17. My favorite south park episode was the one where cartman is being bullied, and in an act of revenge sets it up so the bully's parents get killed by a rancher because a rancher thinks they are thieves, and then he makes the bully eat his own parents. Did anyone see that one? Luv cartman

      Delete
    18. "Scott Tenorman must die" is one of my all time favourites :D
      I love Cartman!

      Delete
    19. Hahah you see how the first shot went through his cheek and out the other way. That actually happened to my great grandfather. In WWI someone tried to head shot him while he was shouting, and it went through one cheek, through his tongue, and out the other cheek. He kept on going and didn't realize until someone pointed it out to him a bit later.

      Delete
    20. Today was a terrible day. I love black humor and these made me laugh. Keep them coming! :)

      Delete
    21. Tii,
      That is one cool story. You certainly come from hardy stock :)
      Curious, what ended up happening with him? Did he lose his teeth, tongue, part of jaw...?

      Damaged,
      Hope tomorrow's a much better day :)

      A guy has an incredibly shit day. Goes to have a drink in a bar on the top of a skyscraper.
      Starts bitching to the man next to him, saying he feels like jumping out the goddamned window.
      His new friend sighs "Won't do you any good. I tried that an hour ago. Wind was so strong I only made it half way down before the wind blew me back up here."
      The man is understandably skeptical "No fucking way!"
      "I'll show you" says his friend, walks right up to the window and jumps.
      Sure enough, he makes it only half way down, then the wind catches him and blows him right back up to the bar. He calmly shrugs "See?"
      The man can't believe it. This is awesome! He takes a runner and jumps. A minute later there's a splat as he lands.
      Barman turns to look at the man calmly having his drink and says "You are such a fucking asshole when you drink, Superman!"


      Christmas Eve, a woman stands on the edge of a high bridge contemplating suicide. Just before jumping she turns around to see Santa Claus holding her jacket.
      "Santa Claus??" exclaims the woman.
      "Yes, why are you out here so miserable on Christmas Eve, young lady?" Asks Santa.
      "Well, I have nothing left to live for. I was fired from my job, my husband dumped me for another man, I'm broke and I might have cancer"
      Santa replies, "Fear not, for Christmas miracles are real. On the way home tonight, you will meet a new man. He will set you up with an even better job. His brother, the doctor, will marry you and treat you like a princess. Your life will be wonderful!"
      "Oh my God! Is there any way I can ever repay you?" she asks.
      "There is one thing... how about a blowjob?"
      "Well... sure!"
      The woman gets on her knees, unzips Santa, gives him the most enthusiastic blow job of his life.
      As Santa is about to leave, he asks the woman "How old are you?"
      "I'm 27" replies the woman while wiping her mouth.
      "You're 27 and you still believe in Santa Claus?" he chuckles heartily, walking off into the night.

      Delete
    22. Luckily for him that was pretty much the only damage done. He had a scar on both cheeks for the rest of his life, and had a tough time pronouncing because of the whole in his tongue, but pretty much it. Not much happened besides that, but it's a pretty cool story to tell so heh...

      Delete
    23. LOL! Thanks. :)

      Delete
    24. LMFAO,,, :):):)

      Damaged, awws, hope your evening is better. My two little boys are battling pneumonia. Fuck, second time around. First antibiotic failed. I'm ala exhaustos.

      But this thread gave me a good chuckles.

      Delete
  117. I read on Psychology Today on line that MRI imagining is a crock!
    That means that all the theories about Psychopathy being a brain
    disorder must be abandoned!
    It's just a question of good vs evil.
    I eshue labels because "the word is not the thing." There are no
    true divisions in life. Whatever is GENUINELY GOOD for one, is good
    for all. Whatever is bad for one is bad for all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey anonymous,

      I've got news. Psychology Today is a crock. I've been at war with them for years over the bad information they publish. They hate my guts, and have intentionally in the past posted articles the following day by a particular author I'm trying to have banned from writing for them, or a subject matter I was in a fight with them over. They are such 5 year olds. Neither the chief editor nor anyone of the editorial staff has a background in psychology. Kaja Perina says that her only background in psychology is "therapy", and these are the people deciding what information goes in to the publication, and ultimately gets disseminated to the public. No real psychologist respects the magazine, and you're not permitted to cite it as a source for research, or in graduate school.

      Delete
    2. MRI is an invaluable system for research. It gives a method, in particular fMRI, to see localized activity in the brain to what activates (and what does not) during specific events.

      If you are referring to this article: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201102/mris-the-new-phrenology then you should know that the complaint is not only invalid, but also ridiculous. Comparing phrenology to MRIs is not a valid comparison. Phrenology, which studied the bumps on a person's skull, has no basis on how a person thinks. That would be like saying the wrinkles in your shirt can tell you what illness ails you. See the separation? MRIs have an actual basis in science, phrenology not even remotely.

      While it is true that MRIs can't tell you exactly which neurons are firing, the truth is they don't need to. Due to the brain's massive complexity, and different synaptic pathways from person to person, that information would be impractical to use. We simply do not have the capacity to properly analyze that level of data. But, we do know from thousands of experiments, that simply seeing the regions, the areas, of the brain activate, is enough to get a useable picture of what does where. It has limitations, but even with them, you get data you simply can not get elsewhere. And, unlike phrenology, it is actual science.

      The five warnings which Whitbourne gave are valid, but overstated. Those five warnings are universal - they apply to all science. In fact, they teach you these things, and far more, when you learn how to conduct psychology research.

      The article in general was meant to sensationalize, instead of being relevantly factual.

      I'm also skeptical of the author. She is praised for being in over 160 refereed articles, but in truth, that doesn't mean that was really her research. Most of these she isn't first author, which means she helped in the research (instead of doing her own), such as making sure the research assistants are keeping to the timetable (which is really just poking the grad student running data collection once a month), going to meetings to critique and eat cheap food, and critiquing the final paper and harassing the first author to revise the discussion section and talk about Y instead of X (again). Somewhere between all of that and teaching (ie. being a professor) and administration, you actually do conduct research. But not 160 articles worth. Not unless you have been conducting research for 50 years, is married to the person who decides on research grants, runs a lab the size of half a football field with dozens of researchers and RAs under you, and is cheating on the grant giver to sell your body to the journal editors for publishing. Conducting actual psychology research is a time-consuming and laborious task. So, don't take the author's credentials at face value either.

      Delete
    3. I just realized where that magical 160 came from. It's the exact number of search results you get with the search keyword "Whitbourne" in PsycINFO (think Google for psychology journal articles), *not* filtered by peer-reviewed journals (or her first name to filter out other Whitbournes - it's 136 without peer-review and 80 with). I'm impressed at the level of thoroughness of Psychology Today's staff.

      Delete
  118. The truth is, we don't know what makes a psychopath a psychopath, or a sociopath a sociopath, if said construct even represents something organic rather than an abstract human construct. Indeed, it truly looks like its simply another way of saying "morally impaired" without giving a reason why.
    So how are we to know that historical figures are psychopaths and or sociopaths? The truth of the matter is, we don't, nor can we really guess either way.

    ReplyDelete
  119. We don´t know why folks get cancer either, one can speculate about it: was it smoking or excessive sun-tans? Does that somehow make cancer a trivial matter? DONT THINK SO.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Maybe ASPD's are like outdated-tech:
    They no longer serve any useful purpose, and only cause complications.

    ReplyDelete
  121. In my opinion they seem to be more like updated tech, willing to do the things and work, that others wouldn't dare, without blanking. Only problem is that controlling them is unpredictable since no one would know if they are actually working for someone or have there own agenda on the side.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Amedeo looks kind of creepy and psycho in the picture. He looks completely detached from himself and from life.

    ReplyDelete
  123. BPD vs npd and sociopathJuly 16, 2014 at 3:02 PM

    Hi, there Dr Ginger. Thank you for the info. It really helps. Caould you please provide some pointers on how best to differentiate a high functioning bpd (not slef-destructive) from npd or sociopath? Also, what useful info do we get from the differentiation?

    These are not really theoretical questions. I'm having such a difficulty deciding what's going on with a close relative and determining a way of relating. Completely ignoring is not a choice I have.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe try having a direct conversation. Maybe she doesn't understand your behavior and actions either. Maybe a conversation could help clear things up for both of you. it takes courage and commitment to speak to someone directly, but if they mean something to you, maybe it's worth it??

      Delete
  124. “BPD vs npd and sociopath” Good name : )

    Is npd even a real diagnosis? The removal from the revised version of the DSM was proposed which I was in support of, however ultimately the decision was made to keep it in the manual. It’s over used in our society, and somewhere along the line I’ve noticed (especially on the internet) it has become synonymous with abuse. Abuse is abuse whether a person has a disorder or not. An abusive person doesn’t necessarily have to have npd. It seems we have become overly concerned with pathologizing those who seek power and influence, and often these individuals get labeled with having narcissistic personality disorder. Another disturbing trend is it is used as a pejorative term to try to abuse and denigrate others. I’ve only met a couple of people that I thought were true, pathological narcissists.

    I suppose the biggest difference between sociopathy and bpd is the emotions. BPD’s tend to be sensitive, intense, sometimes you can feel like you are walking on egg shells around them if they don’t have any insight in to their disorder, and they can become very angry over perceived slights, or imagined or real abandonment. They can become angry and rage for a long time, and not quite always perceive things in a logical manner when in an episode. Attempting to correct perception will only aggravate symptoms, so it is best to just validate their feelings, and establish firm boundaries letting them know you won’t take their abuse. While in an episode they tend to think in all or nothing, black or white thinking seeing the person as being either all good or all bad. They can have a hard time perceiving the shades of grey. When seeing the person as all bad, they can perceive themselves as victims who need to defend themselves against someone who has ill intentions towards them. These kinds of things are seen in both high and low functioning bpd’s, but people who are low functioning often engage in self-harm by cutting or burning themselves. You see more drug and alcohol abuse in the low functioning bpd’s. Suicidal ideation is also a bigger issue in low functioning bpd’s.

    I would say some of the similarities between bpd and sociopathy are abusive behaviors, destruction, impulsivity, aggression, hostility, mischievousness, problems adhering to norms, dominance, antiauthoritarian, and legal problems. Both can be unconventional thinkers, and both have chameleon behaviors. People with sociopathy though, generally don’t have very intense emotions. People with bpd can probably reciprocate feelings more, but there is a lot of lability.

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    Replies
    1. Dr Ginger-
      What do you think of this theory: that sociopaths are more similar to borderlines than we realize but figured out a way to "split" their difficult emotions from consciousness (through a similar mechanism that someone with dissociative disorder splits personalities and states of consciousness. For me it is the only way to explain the need to express periodic aggression from a person who claims to have little or no emotion. The emotion has to be let released someone and this is why the urge to commit antisocial acts is present.
      I am not a clinician and only have this theory from my observations of high and low functioning sociopaths- and from from someone who appeared to be a high functioning borderline. The difference is that the sociopath honestly believes that they have no emotion but suffers from inexplicable urges where the borderline knows how emotional they are.

      Does this ring true or am I deceived by patterns I see in a small and unscientifically measured sample?

      Delete
    2. One thing to note is that anti-social acts come from not caring about the consequences of such acts than it is an aggressive urging. Everyone has urges, but the anti-social component comes from less inhibition and guilt that would normally prevent you from fulfilling those urges. Also, fMRIs, EEGs, and autopsies have shown actual abnormalities and dysfunction in regions such as the amygdala, orbitofrontal cortex, and the corpus callosum. Because of this it has an actual physical basis in the brain, which in turn affects cognitive and psychological functioning.

      By the way, lack of emotions is a generalized term. In psychology, it doesn't mean an absence or void of emotions, but a reduction or deficiency (in technobabble, nothing = absence). To use an analogy, when you say you lack change for the vending machine, what you are really meaning is that you don't have enough change (X dollars/cents) to get what you want. You might have "some" change, just not enough to be sufficient to dispense what you want from the machine.

      Delete
    3. Before the Nitpick Brigade conducts its usual hourly inspection, I should rephrase that typically, anti-social acts from sociopaths are from the reduced barriers, and not anti-social acts from people or other disorders in general. Insert applicable caveats and disclaimers where appropriate.

      Delete
    4. Am I the only sociopath who feel like a failed ENFP? Because of the fact that I don't care, but do a hell of a job pretending I do, people often come to me with there problems. Since I'm not as burdened with emotions as the person grieving, I find it easy to counsel, and give logical advice, people seem to appreciate that and tend to come back. I can't say that I feel overjoyed by helping the person, that I do ot out of the goodness of my heart, or that I do it because I care so much. I do it because it doesn't bother me and I good at it, so why not... if it helps someone along the way then good. When I hear or read stuff about ENFP's and how they qre good for heartfelt conversations, sometimes I feel like a faile ENFP which turned ito ASPD.

      Delete
    5. haha that's kinda funny. I'm not as low down on the empathy totem pole as a sociopath, but I can't say I'm always overflowing with it either, but I get a lot projected on to me as a psychologist, and I think there is an expectation that I'm suppose to be really compassionate, empathetic, and caring. If people are looking for the huggy, feely types though, they need to go to LCSW's. I don't think people understand what it is that psychologists do. We're trained scientists, and we're usually just studying them. Emotions were beaten out of us. Corporal punishment was used in grad school if you expressed any emotion. You were whipped with a cat o’ nine tails, and subjected to public humiliation. haha jkjk :P

      Delete
    6. Haha for a second I was there thinking... "Oh what I would have done in his place... So many "accidents" might have happened"

      Delete
    7. Tii, I'm ENFP.

      Nah, you're not a failed ENFP, far from it. You have an abundance of cognitive empathy... I'd say. I was drawn to your post on another thread. I responded as anonymous. It was the borderline story. You just listened and gave me some sound advise. Plus you don't find pleasure in projecting sadistic harm on anyone or wrecking someone's reputation. Bonus in my eyes! ;)

      Delete
    8. "Plus you don't find pleasure in projecting sadistic harm on anyone" ok apparently someone missed Tii's comment about rapists ;)

      Delete
  125. Mach,

    The theoretical orientations that tend to resonate with me more are DBT, CBT, REBT type stuff where a a lot of the focus is more on changing a clients perceptions and belief systems along with behavior as opposed to really getting in touch with emotions and feelings in order to resolve issues. What you are describing sounds more psychodynamically influenced which I am a lot less familiar with. Neuroscience and psychology have now crossed paths so I frequently look in to the research being conducted using neuroimaging technology, and often examine things more from this perspective. In regards to your comment “The difference is that the sociopath honestly believes that they have no emotion but suffers from inexplicable urges”. I have wondered about this as well. Where I feel like I understand quite a bit about sociopathy, there are still some things I struggle to understand. As Bob said though, I wouldn’t necessarily describe it as “no emotion”, but they seem to experience to a much lesser degree than normal people do.

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    Replies
    1. The literature is somewhat sparse in certain areas, but from first and second-hand accounts, combined with imaging, it is "less". Why exactly that is is still being explored.

      I'm involved in neuroscience, and just out of curiousity had volunteered myself for an unrelated experiment using EEG (a colleague was short on participants and I was bored) when I was told by him that my data was unusable (for the experiment) because it was well beyond expected norms. I did not tell him what the real probable cause was (for obvious reasons), but I was surprised myself when he showed me the data at just how much of an outlier it was. Now as a disclaimer, EEGs have limitations like MRIs (albeit different ones), but it is enough in some cases (when you look at other studies, mine is simply an anecdote) to see a neurological component instead of a psychodynamic one.

      Delete
    2. What features of your EEG were abnormal, if you don't mind me asking?

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    3. Widespread alpha waves and slow waves. It perplexed the hell out if my colleague - the experimental task required significant effort, and my accuracy was extremely high. However, there was so much alpha in various regions that I "should" have been asleep and/or have had terrible accuracy at the task. Which would make sense, if I was neurologically normal and those regions were as active as they should have been. Sufficed to say, my data was garbage for the experiment, and he happily joked that I was no longer invited to volunteer for them.

      I should note that from past studies, abnormal EEGs have only been shown to appear with "some" sociopaths. By itself it is not indicative. Of course, I would prefer if certain colleagues would not see those results (luckily that colleague studies something else entirely) and I know now not to participate in certain EEG studies where this abnormality might mean something to one of them, seeing as I am unfortunately one of those sociopaths who registers on EEGs.

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    4. I would love to get an mri done so I have something objective to look at, and see what exactly is going on.

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    5. Studying neuroscience, I would love to too just out of pure curiousity. Unfortunately they are very expensive, especially for the specific setup required, and would result in potential revelations to those involved. Unlike Fallon, I can't claim ignorance.

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    6. Because the specific tests, such as visual and word associations that elicit emotional responses, which are needed to obtain the needed neural responses (or lack thereof) are just that - specific. Fallon discovered it accidentally, but I can't claim that if I request the specific tests. Imagine if you had hepatitis, and you asked for a hepatitis blood test. Can you reasonably expect to convince someone of harmless ignorance? Especially as, in that example, a pathologist? For Fallon it would work, since that is his specific area of expertise in neuroscience and as such could claim it a coincidence, but it isn't mine. I can't reasonably request those specific tests and claim to use myself as a control group for an experiment, since I work in a different area of neuroscience. I could reasonably request an fMRI even out of pure curiousity, and people would think it understandable given my general field, but not those tests. fMRIs are useless without the necessary tasking.

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    7. Interesting Bob, so you go around in something similar to a meditative state all the time. I too would like to get an fMRI, but that is impracticable. Aside from the fact that I don't work in the neuroscience field, there is the problem of 'revelations'.

      I'm interested in the genetic relationship of psychopathy/sociopathy to other mental disorders, and wondered if either one of you show any mild symptoms of bipolar or schizophrenia. My genetic test came back with a lot of genes for both. In the bipolar department, I have seasonal affective disorder that if I don't carefully regulate my sleep schedule and light exposure morphs into something more akin to hypomania, Schizophrenia- difficulty hearing conversations as the words tend to run together or I hear word breaks in the middle of words instead of at either end, when tired speech becomes difficult and limited to not much more than "Yeah", "No", and "Hmm". Interestingly once speech becomes a problem my visuo-spatial ability goes up, and there is no reduction in reading or writing ability.

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    8. Dev,

      You said "either of you". Sorry I'm not sure if your comment was directed at me or not however, I think what you are saying is interesting. I don't have ASPD myself, just bpd, but on my dad's side of the family he has severe psychotic depression, but he doesn't experience mania. One of his brothers though has bipolar disorder with psychotic features (bipolar I), and their sister was bipolar, and committed suicide. I don't experience any psychotic symptoms myself though.

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