Sunday, October 18, 2009

Mr. Birdick responds

Mr. Birdick gets analyzed by "Dr. Robert" and responds:
Number one, I’ve never actually copped to being a "psychopath". I might score high on the PCL-R, but not high enough to warrant that particular “diagnosis”. I believe that there is a meaningful difference between psychopaths and sociopaths.

Second, whether I can "fathom" other people’s suffering is an irrelevant red herring. My feeling sorrowful or righteously angry when I hear about someone else’s pain does not change things for that person -- it would not change the reality of the man in the picture or make the Iraq war and all of its associated consequences disappear. Dr. Robert’s regret, his remorse, his compassion may mean the world to him but it means nothing at all to the man in the picture.

Third, I still believe that Dr. Robert’s photo placement was manipulative to the degree that it was deliberately designed, by his own admission, to induce emotions in other people in order to prove a point. He was trying to prove himself and to his faithful readers that he was right and the father wrong. Dr. Robert was acting in a self-serving, manipulative fashion. His expression of moral horror served only one purpose -- his.

Fourth, for someone as eager to paint me as arrogantly certain of my superiority, Dr. Robert comes off as awfully... superior, to the point of being downright condescending. Doesn’t the deliberate use of terms like “limitation” and later “deficiency” imply that? Dr. Robert likes to think of himself as a compassionate, liberal and open minded soul, but who is also in fact more judgmental and moralistic than he cares to let on, even to himself. And I caught the misspelling of my name. Quite a class act our Dr. Robert, isn’t he?

Finally, I love it when so called empathic people tell me what I do and do not believe without bothering to ask me. He completely misrepresents my thoughts on those who practice the healing arts. The people that I believe are “foolish, sentimental, and weak” are those that allow others to run roughshod over them; to destroy what they’ve spent a lifetime building; or to allow any system of ethics to dictate, a priori, the decisions that must be made in real time because of their adherence to morality or principles.

It’s too bad Dr. Robert decided that he needed to prove his mettle as a compassionate, liberal healer (how much better he is than the poor, deluded ‘psychopath’), by writing in such an obvious and overtly manipulative fashion. I’d say he was far more concerned with demonstrating his so called great compassion than he was in answering Brian Lippman’s question. Then again, moral hypocrisy, especially the unconscious kind, is so typical for the conscience bound.

99 comments:

  1. Excellent change of 'featured comment' section and my compliments to Mr Ukan for recent posts, both eloquent and 'kicking true' in content.
    Reading back through Ukan's previous postings, I am sure he would not mind my mentioning rather a contrast. What motivated him to switch over into charismatic, charming and all round sexy fat bastard mode?
    Has he spotted a potential 'mark' among us perhaps lolol...hold on to yah wallets!
    But whatever the reason, nice one UKan, you spoke from the heart..whether it was your heart or a heart you ripped out of someone's ribcage, who can say, but I raise my glass to you all the same :o)

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  2. ^ I love this comment. Particularly the last line.

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  3. After perusing the Dr. Roberts discussion and reading DB's response -- I have the impression that DB is not actually pathological in any manner:

    I think it's reasonable to assume that some folks are just more analytical and not so easily moved. Whether you want to characterize this person as chilly or machivellian, I don't believe they have any sort of diagnosable disorder.

    Both self-diagnosed sociopaths and internet quacks should probably exercise more rigor in their thinking as to whether behavior is merely self-interested vs. compulsive/pathological.

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  4. Hopefully not 'sensational' question:

    What impressions to people have of the photos at Dr. Roberts site?

    I agree with Daniel that the Dr. is being lazy and manipulative. But I also think the photos themselves are 'interesting'.

    Not aesthetically interesting, but I do feel a sort of fascination with the affects of violence on the human body. The internet makes this stuff widely available (3 guys, 1 hammer, etc.). Just saying, if there were more photos I'd definitely look.

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  5. Of the photos:

    I do think they've ended up a nice coffee table discussion, now. Which would certainly piss me off, if those photos were of me.

    I wonder if anyone took that into consideration, empathic or sociopath.

    Anyhow, the thing that dawned on me when looking at those man's injuries, is that, other than cringing when imagining the type of pain associated with those burns, I didn't feel a sense of great compassion; or an urge to do much of anything, at all, except for maybe, to turn away.

    After imagining the pain, and noticing the gross detail of charred skin and blisters, I was left feeling rather empty. Questioning whether or not I should feel guilty for not being drawn into an immediate state of compassion.

    I am capable of compassion, having felt it before in my life. But, it is not always a consistent reaction.

    Maybe it's because the "victim" is a man of war.

    And, I can't distinguish immediately whether he is worthy of compassion, or not.

    What was he doing when he was injured? Maybe he was protecting a group of school children, or, firing up a school.

    I suppose, knowing exactly the man's circumstance would dictate whether or not I want to reach out and help someone - or relate with their suffering.

    If that man was, in fact, attempting to hurt innocent children, maybe - I would feel comforted by his suffering - perhaps hoping secretly that his burns would take his life, in the most painful way possible.

    Anyways, more later. That's all I got, for now.

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  6. Harry Lime said, “I have the impression that DB is not actually pathological in any manner…”

    I agree with you 100%. I actually prefer the term Machiavellian to sociopath for precisely this reason. Yes, I may not feel much in the way of guilt and remorse and I don’t appear to possess a conscience in the way other people say they do, but the truth of the matter is that does not make me (or anyone else who shares similar traits) pathological, compulsive or ‘sick’. It merely makes me different from the norm.

    Psychopathy, as defined by Hare, is not an official diagnosis according to the APA, but it has been widely accepted in a variety of clinical and research settings, so for all practical purposes it is a diagnosable ‘pathology’. Using Hare’s definitions, I am not a psychopath.

    I’d never heard of this ‘3 guys, 1 Hammer’ video so naturally I had to look. It was intriguing. The kids were fools of course and the gurgling was annoying. I kept wondering when they were going to go ahead and finish him just to stop the gurgling. There is something peculiarly compelling about the body’s response to violence. I suppose this brings me back the photo’s on Dr. Robert’s site. I did find them interesting to observe, but judging by the good doctor's comments, empaths would feel a whole lot of something else. I wonder if that’s even true or if Dr. Robert was merely projecting his political views onto what he thinks of as “normal” people.

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  7. Maybe I stand to be diagnosed, because according to Dr. Robert:

    "A person who can feel would never ask what one is supposed to feel; he or she would simply feel it."

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  8. Thanks Dirty Harriett for confirming my suspicion. One’s response to those pictures isn’t as simple as Dr. Robert made it out to be. Your own response indicates that a person with “normal” emotional experiences (although judging by some of your comments here I'm not sure how 'normal' your experience of emotions is... but who cares, you're fun anyway) would not automatically be moved by looking at the pictures, which does not in turn make them pathological.

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  9. DirtyHarriett said, "Maybe I stand to be diagnosed, because according to Dr. Robert..."

    OR maybe Dr. Robert is just plain wrong this time. Having a PhD does not make a person's opinions inerrant.

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  10. Daniel,

    The more I'm honest about my emotions, the crazier that damn rabbit hole gets.

    I certainly have a wide and complicated emotional range. And, normalcy is always up for debate.

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  11. DirtyHarriett said, "I certainly have a wide and complicated emotional range."

    I imagine this is true for many people, although they'd be loathe to admit it.

    "normalcy is always up for debate."

    It always is, which is why I never worry about it. As god said, I am what I am. We'll let other people worry about what is and is not normal.

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  13. Afterthoughts:

    I also noticed, that with a little nudging from "guilt", I could probably feel just about anything.

    Spooky.

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  14. Dirty said: "The more I'm honest about my emotions, the crazier that damn rabbit hole gets."

    I think the sentiments expressed by normal empathetic people in a social setting are very different from how they actually feel.

    The emotional resonance of empathy must be very fleeting because people most often do nothing for the people they empathize with. Particularly if it would cost them anything to help.

    This is why I find a Machiavellian perspective on the 'normal' end of the spectrum. Successful people may have warm and close bonds with family or their dog, and then be quite ruthless in perusing their interests elsewhere.

    The public expression of sentiment and emotion is normally just a gesture and you can follow a person's behavior elsewhere.

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  15. Harry,

    I think emotional resonance serves its purpose much like logical resonance does, even here on this site.

    People feel at ease with others that reinforce their emotional or logical range. It has more to do, with the "safety" within a group of similar peers, rather than acting on the similar urges they may feel.

    This is very true:

    "The public expression of sentiment and emotion is normally just a gesture and you can follow a person's behavior elsewhere."

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  16. Now that was interesting Daft. You should have said you were Daniel just to see what their reaction to ‘your’ reaction would have been.

    I wonder about the horror/shock reaction that accompanies seeing pictures like that. When I was 12, our social studies teacher introduced our class to the Holocaust. One day, she presents a slide show of sorts, which featured graphic pictures of concentration camp prisoners. One picture showed some of the prisoners almost naked, starving and clearly in misery. For some reason, this particular picture struck my funny bone and before I knew it, I burst out laughing. She stops the slide show, turns on the lights and demands to know who laughed. None of my classmates snitched on me, god bless ‘em. She declared that the laugher, whoever he/she was, was a truly sick person. Then she continued the slide show. That was the first time it truly occurred to me that my own instinctive reactions were not ‘different’ and but would be frowned upon.

    Then again, I don’t really believe I was the only one in the classroom who had the “unauthorized” response to that picture. I was just the one not disciplined enough to hold my laughter in. People aren’t as ‘empathic’ as they make themselves out to be. Feelings without action are meaningless, after all.

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  17. I'm anonymous above. I clicked the wrong button.

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  20. Daft Cap Wearer said, "You refered to yourself in the third person."

    That's because I'm not Daniel Birdick; I'm Batman.

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  22. So, I have a theory:

    You guys have a few different bodies, but you're all suffering from multiple personality disorder?

    Yes? No?

    ;)

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  24. Daft and DH, did you watch '3 Guys, 1 Hammer'? If so, what were your reactions?

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  25. Daft,

    Haha. hahahaha.

    Daniel,

    I'll go watch it, now.

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  26. Oh,

    And I want both of your opinions on 2 girls, 1 cup.

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  28. Harriett, ‘2 Girls, 1 Cup’ was completely disgusting. Seriously, crazily, that video made me sick. I finished watching it but I did have to fight my gag reflex.

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  29. Sorry, guys. I'll watch video stills, but not the video.

    I'll get angry.

    Seriously.

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  31. Dirty Harriett:

    You'll be angry? Really? That's one of the reactions I'd be curious about. Why would you feel anger? The kids were idiots, fair enough. After all, they fools made tapes! (Perhaps they wanted to get caught...) Or, as Daft suggests, perhaps they're merely psychotic. In any event, why anger?

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  32. Those kids are fucked up. The fact that they're serving life-sentences, and not facing death by hammer and screwdrivers to the eyes, is a crime.

    Just my opinion.

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  34. Daniel,

    I don't know, but that's just my reaction.

    I avoid watching violent or grotesque murder scenes, because afterwards, I feel seriously angry, almost surreal - like I want to kick the ass of the people responsible.

    No idea. But, I'm careful about what I watch, because it happens everytime.

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  36. Daft,

    Strange? Will you argue some sort of moral code to carrying out justice?

    Kinda like a, we're better than them, sort of thing?

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  37. Daniel,

    "Seriously, crazily, that video made me sick."

    I am laughing. And, I think it's at your expense!

    Haha.

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  40. Daft,

    Well, it costs more money to put someone away for life, than it does to execute someone.

    A life-sentence for those idiots is a real crime.

    And, it would save a lot of energy to do it under the radar - but that would be promoting a chaotic judicial system. And, that's something that can't be promoted, at least publically.

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  41. Nice video link, but again, I'm not letting some shmuck burn his death into my brain.

    That would almost be like fucking him. And, what a fucking piece of shit. Too cowardly to face the consequences of the system.

    2 girls, 1 cup:

    I kept hoping that when the view changed from the girl shitting into the cup, to them eating...

    Some shit-looking dessert was whipped up, and they ate that instead of the shit.

    I have good coping mechanisms.

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  42. Suppose the cops response was more mentionable than the suicide.

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  43. My psychology is ass backwards. Girls literally eating shit makes me gag but seeing a random dude shoot himself, not so much. The Snopes article is right. The real thing is still fascinating even though it isn’t cinematic. And why, oh why didn’t the cops check him?

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  47. Watching someone's suicide is "too close for comfort". You don't agree that it's rather intimate to watch someone die?

    I wouldn't pay attention to his life - I wouldn't pay attention to his death.

    Besides, he looks like an idiot, and from the freeze frame, holding the gun.

    I did watch Hussein's execution.

    Maybe, though. I have a think about blows to the head. That shit is nasty. Trunk and limb damage - not so bad.

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  48. That does NOT mean I would have fucked Hussein.

    Just to be clear.

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  51. Daft,

    "I, I, I..." You're starting to sound like me.

    Yeah, you're right. I can't stand blunt trauma to the head.

    The reasons they died... eh. I'm jaded. Like you said, the world is crazy.

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  52. Well, I'm smokin hot. You know? Maybe, I am a narcissist?

    But, uh. Yeah, not Hussein.

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  53. And, holy shit...

    From Sociopaths vs. Narcissists:

    "...It will be good for her, and teach her a lesson. I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for the team. I have to be the enforcer here and eat bad sheeps to help keep society clean."

    Haha. DIAGNOSED!

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  56. Daft,

    Yeah. And it's too damn bad you're a sociopath! Otherwise, we might just be smokin hot together.

    It's just a sad, sad world we're living in :(

    Me thinks is hilarious.

    Me thinks it's a good idea to start using it.

    I got ripped off by God. Why oh why a narcissist instead of a sociopath?!?

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  58. Daft,

    You're right. I think God hates me.

    But, about you...

    You're not obvious, or anything. In fact, 99% probably wouldn't know.

    But, yeah. You're a clever socio ;)

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  60. You know, I don't really listen to what UKan says, anyways. I have a feeling he's really thunderball, and suzanne, and alpha belle.

    Can't prove anything, of course.

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  63. The word "sociopath" means nothing?

    Please explain. Sociopaths are truly unique people. What are the chances, like 1 in 50? That's pretty unique...

    And the fact that you're so seriously mercurial? I mean, any which way, any thing, thought of everything, know you, know this, know that, fuck with you, get what I want...

    That's something!

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  67. Daft,

    I meant in a general way. Not you specifically.

    How do you see yourself on the spectrum, exactly?

    Is it hard, with sociopathic tendencies, to define who you really are, considering the trademark is a flexible sense of self?

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  69. "Since I've never been anything other then I am, its hard to define the level of difficulty since I have nothing to compare it to."

    Gotcha.

    But, you must recognize, others, with a somewhat constant internal narrative going on... in sharp contrast to the sociopathic tendency to diffuse into anything.

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  71. Well, thanks for answering to the best of your ability.

    Just curious.

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  75. Daft, you are not the only one who can spot when a person switches to alternates.

    Question though... are you a sociopath? And you're saying you can only sometimes detect other sociopaths?

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  76. "Say a child sociopath begins to mimic his surroundings, the surroundings being a psychiatric hospital, how could a correct diagnoses be made now when so much of the child’s early life centered on blending into various forms of insanity?"

    That would take time, and a sharp mind. Unlikely considering most psychiatric hospitals.

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  77. DirtyHarriett said:
    "You know, I don't really listen to what UKan says, anyways. I have a feeling he's really thunderball, and suzanne, and alpha belle."

    No, I'm definitely me.

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  78. Daniel said: "One picture showed some of the prisoners almost naked, starving and clearly in misery. For some reason, this particular picture struck my funny bone and before I knew it, I burst out laughing. [...] That was the first time it truly occurred to me that my own instinctive reactions were not ‘different’ and but would be frowned upon."

    I've gpt the inappropriate sense of humour. I used to stop myself from laughing, but then I decided that I spend enough time pretending to be amused that people could put up with me being truly amused every now and again.

    When I was a kid, I had this fantasy life I'd daydream about. It involved a well-equipped torture chamber, and at the age of seven I was falling asleep thinking about it. For whatever reason I decided that was a little creepy so I forced myself to think about a fairyland with castles and magical pink unicorns ('cos I thought that's what little girls were meant to dream of) but the unicorns impaled each other on their horns and the princesses got murdered. That was my first realisation something was different.

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  79. These are pointless questions, videos, and pictures. Burnt people? Some kids playing games with some bum? Girls eating shit? Children growing up in insane asylums? Dead princesses? Where are we going with all this, or are we just wasting time?

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  81. I think humor is the only emotion sociopaths understand, really. At least feel. When something strikes me in any way I laugh at it. Like when people get mad and try to scare me it makes me smile. I tried to think of any time I "Feel" and it's usually just an irony that makes me laugh.

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  82. other than that, I found nothing interesting on here to respond to.

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  83. UKan is awesome but then imagines he is in control. Or some authority figure.

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  84. Right.

    What is he, king of the fucking sociopaths on sociopathworld.com? He just feels popular.

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  88. daniel burdick you are wrong righteous anger does change a lot but what you dont understand is that it takes more than 1 person because thats how god made it and thats the beauty of being part of something greater than yourself. when the world is full of emotical idiots like you and the numb people of america then of course its not gonna do anything for 1 person to get angry or whatev but the fact is that 1 person is part of 1+1+1+1+1+1+1 etc that represents a force bound by morality and empathy that no sociopath or group of sociopaths in all their emotical deadness could never be a part of or stand against or even admit exists. you go ahead and try to rationalize yourself a reason why this isnt true but the cold hard facts are that you and the other sociopaths are cut off from being a part of that and youre forced to live hidden lives on the fringes of society. you fear the flock of sheep trampling over your lonely selfs so you look at others like theyre alone like you but they arent and thats their strength and thats where you fail without any chance of recovery

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  90. Really.

    Did you say something offensive that I was too daft to catch?

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  91. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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