Thursday, October 29, 2009

Insights into empath minds

I just don't understand them sometimes. I do things for (mainly) logical reasons, with a core emphasis in efficiency. As a libertarian, I'm always interested in the suppression of markets for moral reasons, so I found myself reading an article on the altruistic kidney donations of strangers and how (wait for it) the empath hordes shun them, considering them "freakish, inhuman, even repellent."
Most people find it uncomplicatedly admirable when a person risks his life to save a stranger from fire, or from drowning. What, then, is it about saving a stranger by giving a kidney, a far lesser risk, that people find so odd? Do they feel there is something aggressive about the act, as though the donor were implicitly rebuking them for not doing it, too? (There is no rebuke in saving a stranger from drowning -- you weren't there, you couldn't have done it. And you can always imagine that you would have if you had been.) Or perhaps it's that organ donation, unlike rescue, is conceived in cold blood, and cold-blooded altruism seems nearly as sinister as cold-blooded malevolence. Perhaps only the hot-blooded, unthinking sort can now escape altruism's tainted reputation, captured in the suspicious terms for what people are really engaging in when they think they're helping (sublimation, colonialism, group selection, potlatch, socialism, co-dependency -- the list goes on).
And this quote from one of the fascists supporting the UNOS (United Network for Organ Sharing) kidney breadline at the expense of donors taking the private option of self-selecting donor recipients:
Douglas Hanto, the chief of transplantation at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, in Boston, for instance, feels that the system should work the same way for everybody--that there should be just one line to stand in. He concedes that it's possible that MatchingDonors draws in people who wouldn't otherwise donate--people who need the tug of a human story to sway them--thus making everybody better off, but, as long as its dating-service model favors the photogenic, the eloquent, and the computerized, he is against it. "We are all going to die," he says. "We have to do everything we can for our patients, but within the boundaries of moral principles. As much as we want to save everybody, we just can't."
I think the label "altruistic" is misplaced. I don't think the people donating need the tug of a personal story. From what I read, most of the donors think that it is inefficient to not donate a kidney that they're not using to someone who needs one to live. For instance, this description of a young donor:
The petty selfishness of daily life drove her crazy and she wanted to fix it. She hated the way that, in the checkout line at Target, a person with a whole cartful of stuff would not let a person with only one or two things go ahead of him. She hated that, when she was driving and let a pedestrian cross the road, the driver behind her would honk in frustration. She always tried to do nice things for others. At work, she would often buy coffee for her co-workers without being asked, though mostly this just bewildered people.
I know how she feels, but as much as I'd like to say that empaths live in a horrible world of their own making, I think it's just that they think so differently. Maybe their world doesn't seem so ugly to them.

73 comments:

  1. First, I couldn’t read the article since I didn’t have a subscription. Second, this post reminds me of the time I offered to donate one of my kidney’s to a co-worker’s ailing father last year. Well, I offered to be tested to see if I would be a match. Of course, I had no intention of actually going through with it and I was equally sure that she’d never actually ask me to anyway, so offering was relatively risk free for me in that respect. At the same time, I earned beaucoup bonus points around the office for my willingness to sacrifice so much for a stranger. When she asked me why I made the offer, I told her that I wanted to be altruistic, to be willing to help wherever I could. She’s a pretty stony person in many ways, but that one won her over to me permanently. I’m “good people” to her now. She keeps me informed on everything that's happening in the office, which proves useful from time to time.

    Third, “Perhaps only the hot-blooded, unthinking sort can now escape altruism's tainted reputation, captured in the suspicious terms for what people are really engaging in when they think they're helping (sublimation, colonialism, group selection, potlatch, socialism, co-dependency -- the list goes on).” this is an excellent point.

    Fourth, the quote from Douglas Hanto underscores my contempt for their ‘moral principles’. His principles tell him that what Matching Donor’s is doing is somehow suspect and that it’s better if everyone stands in one line to die? I almost want to walk up to him and say, “Come on man, does it really matter how Matching Donor’s is handling these kidney donations, so long as people are, I don’t know, NOT DYING?” The principle centered living philosophy is one of my pet peeves for precisely this reason. It sounds like this Hanto guy would rather let people die than see his oh so important ideals be contradicted. Which is fine, but it really annoys me when I hear certain people talk loud and long about their precious principles taking priority over the demands of whatever real world circumstance they happen to find themselves in. I freely admit it; this idealism over pragmatism thing really irks me.

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  2. Living kidney donation has lead to a market in human organs, which is what is morally repugnant to many people who have morals. It has lead to the deaths of impoverished donors who didn't receive the level of post-op care they had contracted for.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/in-new-york-cash-and-conn_n_264373.html

    One solution that's been proposed is an "opt-out" organ donor policy -- it wouldn't require extra effort on anyone's part to become an organ donor. The idea is that there would a lot more kidneys to go around if practically every healthy kidney were available upon the death of its owner. This seems like an efficient solution that is also morally unobjectionable to very many people with morals.

    --lurker

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  3. I don't think altruism has much to do with it. Some people want the attention and praise from the recipient's family and community. Others want that sense of self importance that comes with doing something so 'selfless.' Unlike sociopaths, empaths typically are not blessed with unlimited amounts of self-esteem. That well has to be replenished from time to time. Grand gestures of 'kindness' fill it a lot more quickly than helping a little old lady across the street.

    It's also a fantastic 'get out of jail free' card they can play for the rest of their lives. Got a DUI driving home from the bar? I donated a kidney to a stranger, Your Honor. I didn't know how my one remaining kidney would react to alcohol. Got caught at an orgy by a deacon at your church? It's okay, he knows I'm a good person because I gave a kidney to a stranger. Get in a fight with your spouse and hit them in the head with a cast iron skillet? It's okay...I mean really, officer, would someone who gave a kidney to a stranger to save a life do harm to someone they love? Of course not!

    I think there are very few truly selfless acts. Even for an empath.

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  4. Someone overthunk a close target:

    This is a primitive instinct being covered as a "moral" issue...

    People are disgusted by the idea of accepting a strangers organ into their own body; death, giving organs away to eager harvesters, or vice versa... eager givers, donating organs.

    Thus, the problem with popularity.

    The idea of some bloody, lumpy, strange organ from some "unknown" is just too much to fathom.

    The idea of having an otherwise healthy organ chopped out and given to a complete stranger is too much to fathom.

    I get it.

    Most are probably more comfortable with the idea of a dying person giving the organs they're not going to use much during putrifaction, than an altruistic someone or a group of someones' getting together and having a harvest day.

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  5. You can't have either of my kindey's, you fucks. There's a chance I might need them, and if you think I'm going to let you make me look or feel bad by donating yours, I've got a loaded 12 gauge that says otherwise. They can harvest your kidneys after you're dead.

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  6. Why would anyone give kidneys to complete strangers? What's a kidneys shelf life I wonder? Couldn't I save it for someone I actually wanted to keep the legacy going like offspring? Maybe we can write it in a will. They can sell it or save it for a rainy day. I'm with peter on this. I'm not giving my organs out to people I most likely not want to keep living.

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  7. Daniel,
    Why is the "pragmatic" issue of people not dying important to you?

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  8. Lurker said,"Daniel,
    Why is the 'pragmatic' issue of people not dying important to you?"


    It's because of the word you've quoted. Pragmatism. Saving lives isn't important to me. If it were, I'd be out there saving lives everyday in some kind of way. I don't so it isn't. And it's not that pragmatism is important per se as much as I'm annoyed when people lose sight of their objectives because they're focusing on non-essentials like ethics and morality and what not.

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  9. I wonder... if you donate a kidney, do you get put at the top of the donor list should you need one later in life?

    Wouldn't that be some shit?

    "Yeah, I donated a Kidney because 2 is apparently not enough for some people. Then I found out that 1 wasn't enough for me. Can I get hooked up?"

    -"End of the line, sir."

    "...seriously?"

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  16. Is that how you see yourself?
    Quite amusing.

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  20. Daft,

    I liked the gambling video. Notice his pretty accomplice. Seems like he trusts her a lot...

    Just an interesting senario. The two men standing to kill each other, and the woman (with a gun) in control. Fascinating.

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  23. Daft,

    Sweet. Good for her.

    But, about my "feminist" rant. The plot doesn't change the possibility that a male sociopath trusting an accomplice, could not be surprised!

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  24. Male, female, sociopath, empath, what does it matter?

    Anyone expecting any kind of behavior from anyone can and will be surprised. Why is this interesting?

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  26. Daft,
    You aren't a sociopath. Youre just a sad little weiner trying to fit in..I mean what socio ever apologizes for calling peter 'pan'? Or apologizes at all for that matter.....If you wanted to offend him call him peter pansy...

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  27. Peter Pan,

    It's interesting because the main character is being "characterized" as a badass, and yet, he's quite vulnerable.

    JUST SAYING!

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  28. What you're saying is asinine.

    If she were an attack dog guarding his ass, you wouldn't be making these statements. But as that clip portrays it, that's exactly what she is--an intelligent, sexy attack dog. He's got her trained to the point where she's less of a threat than anyone else, so the only point you could make is an asinine one that trusting anyone to do anything makes you vulnerable, which is a bit of a "NO SHIT SHERLOCK" thing.

    That is of course unless Mr. Insane's comments about you romanticizing the female character to the point where you see her wielding power she doesn't really have against a seemingly sociopathic character. Or am I reading too much into this? Or too much into you?

    I think it's time to eat lunch.

    High five, Mr. Insane!

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  29. That is of course unless Mr. Insane's comments about you romanticizing the female character to the point where you see her wielding power she doesn't really have against a seemingly sociopathic character is right on the money.

    Preemptive edit.

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  30. ERIC_LEE, I CHOOSE YOU!

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  31. Pan,

    You seem to not be able to handle a simple suggested idea that an accomplice could potentially turn on it's badass leader.

    The clip was just too easy to pick at... and, as usual, I got what I wanted because -

    It's just hysterical that you boys are hysterical at a simple suggestion!

    What a bunch of dumb swinging cocks, you are.

    P.S. You eat that lunch, Pan. Bet your sandwich was made by a WOman. Whoops! There I go again.

    P.P.S. Yeah, eat that shit. Hope she picked her nose and put it on your fucking bologna. Fuck you.

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  32. I love how you derail at the slightest sign of trouble. I also love it when you talk dirty, Harriett. Tell me some more about the nose picking... mmmm.

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  33. Oh, and it's PETER, bitch.
    FUCK YOU!

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  34. What the fuck is wrong with you, Pan?

    Get another name if the nickname bothers you that much.

    And...

    "I love how you derail at the slightest sign of trouble."

    I also love how you assume I was making a point I was "passionate about"... and not making a point because it was a sure bet to get your junk all knotted up.

    If I was passionate about some feminist point, I would fight for it. I don't give two shits about that.

    What I DO care about is how you like it when I talk dirty to you.

    You like that?

    You like it when I talk about nose picking?

    Sticking one finger in and out that nostril. In and out, slowly. Then round and round and round, hitting the sinus cavity....

    And then, faster, faster... picking that nose, picking that nose.

    Don't give a damn who sees, now!

    Oh, shit! Oh, shit!

    Gaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

    Got it.

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  35. Two Pence Im with you on that. It's like a sports arena in this place. Daft is like a tennis ball going from my court to Peters back and forth. Whoever's coming off strong for the day.
    Harlot I don't know why you stick around or what you like about this company you currently keep. I think it's the abuse you like personally. Honestly we needed a new punching bag. This one goes batsy every paragraph with her ultra-feminist fantasies of sticking it to the gents. With the amount of times you've set yourself up here I can see how that ex-boyfriend of yours couldn't help himself. Do you want to know what you were to him? You were a rung on the ladder for his personal growth. The sad part is you will have to get a new wimpy boyfriend to pick on just to get back to being somewhat normal. Two steps back and one step forward.

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  36. Oh, that was good, Harriet, but don't stop now. You're really getting me going, and I'd love to read some more. Let's see just how nasty you can get!

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  37. UKan,

    Honestly. What can I say? For every comment I make, I get more and more stupidity from you.

    I sometimes like it. But, honestly lately, you really bore me.

    Your method just paces back and forth over the same old material - between snotty psudo-psychological advice, fishing for old ex reactions, and psychotic rage for "cunts".

    Update yourself, UKan.

    I can see you straining, waiting, and hoping for blood.

    Gosh, you must feel pathetic, considering I pegged you so quickly.

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  38. I'm actually rather fond of the name Peter Pansy. I feel all warm and bubbly every time I hear it. I'm sure Thundercunt feels the same way every time someone makes a play on his name. Group hug, anyone?

    But Pan? Pure laziness.
    STOP CALLING ME PAN YOU COW FELCHING HARLOT!

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  39. Get the fuck out of here, Pan. I already got the fucking booger! Duh!

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  40. More! Please? C'mon, I'm begging. Talk dirty to me, dirty. I'll let you call me Pan, and I don't do that for anyone.

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  41. Oh, I see how it is. Now that UKan showed up and opened his fat mouth, you feel threatened, so you won't indulge me any more. It's really a shame. You did a great job with the booger story. It was very enjoyable.

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  42. Ok Pansy,

    Just close your eyes... we're going on a little fantasy trip...

    To your work cafeteria... to get some bologna.

    You're blindfolded and I'm leading you by the hand...

    You sit down. Stick out your tongue.

    Here comes the bologna.

    It's covered with neon yellow snot
    and a little blood from a H1N1 sinus infection.

    I'm gliding it up and down your tongue -

    You're moving that tongue up and down, flicking that wet, flowing bologna membrane into your mouth; pulling away with a trail of thin snot connecting you to the meat.

    With three fingers, I shove the bologna into your mouth. There's a little blood on your upper lip.

    I wipe it off with a napkin.

    Bon Appetit!

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  43. Perfect. Thanks, doll. You're OK in my book!

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  44. Fourth, the quote from Douglas Hanto underscores my contempt for their ‘moral principles’.


    It's downright diabolical. Hats off. Another donation that people find even more repulsive is that of reproductive material. Sperm, eggs or even surrogacy. I'd probably do all of the above and throw in a kidney. (well, maybe substitute for sperm.) I don't think I'd do it for altruistic reasons, I just probably wouldn't find a good enough reason NOT to. And I would be annoyed, but I can't overlook the illogical idea behind hording things I don't need at the huge expense of someone else.

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  45. I would say that a little over half the worlds population deserve life in the first place in my eyes. Why take the chance having your organs placed in the wrong hands. I'm going for the cryo chamber. Why have someone like me go wasted. Preserve me for immortality.
    I thought Id mention that pansy wasn't directed towards you peter. It was meant towards the pushover. However if the shoe fits by all means wear it mate.
    By the way I've been keeping thundershit locked away in my basement for all his retarded comments he's made. I feed him hot dog shit and make him read sarah's comments over and over again. At night I make him watch videos of Dirty Harlots sex life until he passes out. He wanted to be a sociopath so badly I figured Id torture all the emotion out of him. I'll keep you updated on the progress.

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  46. UKan,
    Perfect. Thanks, doll. You're OK in my book!

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  47. Harriet said "UKan,Honestly. What can I say? For every comment I make, I get more and more stupidity from you."

    It's not stupidity as such. UKan gets by through 'jumping' into certain characters that have influenced him over the years.
    A lot of his post have to read in the voice of "Mr T" out of the A Team. This also gives us an idea of UKan's likely age bracket.

    Daniel Birdick occasionally tries for Hannibal Lector but it doesn't come off too convincing. He can't quite shake his blue-collar office bullshitter aura :o)

    UKan rocks though! He really knows how to step into those roles and totally BE it. Should have tried acting instead of hustling.

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  48. Dr. Douglas Hanto sounds like a sociopath to me. I think his real focus is controlling the process -- and the lives that hang in the balance.

    What if you were the sheriff of kidney-town? Suddenly there's a source online where people are giving kidneys away out of the kindness of their hearts.

    I believe I would have the same reaction. Fuck those sentimental organ donors . . .the kidneys are 'mine'. Of course you can't say that, but a moralistic stance can make for a nice cudgel.

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  49. Lol. Anonymous made me laugh a bit. The Daniel Birdick Hannibal similie wasn't one I thought of, but it's an amusing idea. And in his defense it is a more complex and difficult character. Perhaps with time it'll be perfected.

    Now on from acting 101. Sarah mentioned that she can't see a reason for people hoarding things. But then, I imagine her having all her kidneys and eggs. I think they'd have to make donation mandatory before anyone but obsessive lovers or insecure idiots will actually do it. As Birdick said, he volunteered to look good, but wouldn't really go through with it. Would anyone? Has anyone on here ever seriously considered giving up an organ? Or donated sperm? The only thing that would motivate anyone into such things would be money. Or the false sense of security and superiority that could come with being so "Wonderfully selfless". Even the empath here will fall short of compassion because people are so generally selfish by nature. And donating kidneys just goes against life preservation.

    And as far as standing in line, if you know someone you can con into giving up a kidney for you, fuck it. All the power to you and your right to the front of the line. The rest of the suckers need to focus on who they need to manipulate to survive to get one and how amazing they need to be for the rich assholes to love them and buy them organs for longer life.

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  50. Anon your sharp. Have you seen me in another film or did you just see me in this one?

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  51. Anyone expecting any kind of behavior from anyone can and will be surprised. Why is this interesting?

    ha.

    Logic is a cruel mistress.

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  52. But then, I imagine her having all her kidneys and eggs.

    Nah. I have donated eggs. For free. It was someone I knew tho, and despite the discomfort and risk involved I still just couldn't help but weigh the pros with my cons. And it can be a riskier process than kidney donation. It all boiled down to the fact that NOT doing felt silly to me. I don't have an emotional attachment to my genetic material. Plus, it was like conducting a science experiment with my body and it was fascinating. It's not like sperm - it takes months and lots of daily injections with hormones. Saying all that, tho, I would not do it again.

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  53. What if you were the sheriff of kidney-town?


    In the very least, it would require adding a supplement to your resume. And repetitive 'i shot the sheriff' jokes. Because people love punning cultural references. That and peanut butter.

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  54. Jesus, is this neccessary.

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  57. Daft-
    Obviously YOU gave a shit enough to write a lengthy meaniningless explanation. I'm glad you took the two cents to heart. Want three more you little weiner?

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  60. Daft your apology was not sarcastic it was humourous and OBVIOUSLY sincere. The fact you do a long denial, with lots of unconvincing posturing about your meanie-ness, really does draw your sociopathic credentials into doubt. You will need to really ramp up the nasty nasty now in order to restore your credibility (you big weenie)

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  61. Ha ha ha. This is great. Someone's picking up the slack around here.

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  64. "Take your foul little self and boil the puss out of your eye sockets with scalding water, then cut your tongue out of your cavity filled mouth, and go toss your own hemroid festering salad. You dick waffle."


    hehehehahaha!

    damn! now that was funny!

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  65. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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