Wednesday, November 22, 2017

How Psychopaths Work

This was an interesting podcast that a reader shared with me.


To me it started off a little self assured of itself in starting certain things as fact that seemed wrong-ish to me, or at least debatable. It reminded of listening to non-Mormons talk about the Mormon religion with such certainty or men talking about the female experience with such certainty, if that gives you an idea of what I mean.

Probably my favorite parts were about halfway to the end where they start acknowledging the very problematic ways that psychopaths have been studied, the discrepancies in psychological "knowledge" of what sociopaths are and how to diagnose them, how psychopaths are diagnosed (stressing criminal behaviors), how they're given psychological treatment or not, how they're punished for their diagnosis by the criminal systems, how they're stigmatized by society even though a psychopath is in no way responsible for being a psychopath (genetics and upbringing). They quite rightly opine that history is not going to look kindly on humanity's current treatment of psychopaths.

There was also an interesting discussion of gender bias in the way that sociopaths have been studied and the diagnostic criteria. 

101 comments:

  1. I haven't been to this blog in like 3 years. Holy crap, what in the actual fuck happened to this place? Who is this boring ass mother fucker, "swop"? I can't get through an entire one of your comments.

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  2. ok let's see here, i gotta give myself a name...hmm what should I call myself besides anonymous...oh I know, I really like that song, "Paint it Black" so that's what I'll call myself. I don't like the original rolling stones version though

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  3. I probably won't be hanging out long,but for the moment I'm seeking a misanthropic social club.

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  4. I jus came to see if there was a nice, cheery Thanksgiving post on sociopathworld :D

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  5. What do you guys think of Danielle Bregoli? Gawd, this is embarrassing to admit, but she appeals to my inner adolescent. Ok, I know the net just looooves to diagnose people so what disorder does she have? Go! :D

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  6. Replies
    1. yes what?

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    2. Seems her mom has the mental issues not her lol

      http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/cash-me-outside-danielle-bregoli-age-mom-dad/

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    3. No doubt....the apple doesn't fall far from the tree

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  7. I don't think a psychopath/sociopath is more dangerous than any NT person walking around. Murders are committed daily from non psych/soc...The husband/wife catching the spouse cheating, the guy who loses his job with bills mounting and can't take the pressure and kills his boss, the list goes on. Society fears what they don't understand and can't relate to. Always has and always will. They're not monsters walking around, they're just more clever than the standard person.

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  8. Replies
    1. Do you live in vegas?

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  9. I live in California.

    ~Vegas

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    Replies
    1. I was born and raised in vegas. Now I live on the beach in Santa Cruz.

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    2. How oh lovely.

      ~Vegas

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  10. Any other good, evil, misanthropic blogs out there? There used to be one called The Misanthropic Bitch. Wish that was still up.

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    1. Oh me too, sounds interesting.

      ~Vegas

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    2. Yeah, from alcibiades anon.

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    3. "Alcibiades was the biggest jerk to ever live in the Classical Age. Born near Athens, Greece, Alcibiades earned a reputation growing up as one of the most attractive men ever in history. I mean, you know that when the local histories from your era make extra-special sure that they mention how hot you are there's got to be something to it. As a result, naturally, Alcibiades was getting laid more than Wilt Chamberlain in a New Jersey bordello. Chicks (and dudes) pretty much threw themselves at him every time he walked out the front door of his super-fly bachelor swinger's pad, and he even hooked up with the legendary Greek philosopher Socrates; an achievement that even the most archconservative gay-bashing bible thumper has to concede is pretty damn impressive. Before Socrates swigged that shot of hemlock, he actually wrote a couple works about how freaking hot Alcibiades was, calling him pretty much the most attractive man ever to live in all of history. Alcibiades made sure to dress the part of an eccentric millionaire superstar as well: His golden shield was studded with diamonds and jewels, and was pretty much the Ancient Greek equivalent of Lil Jon's Pimp Chalice. He was pimpin' before it was pimpin'."

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    4. There is a blogger that goes by that name and they are a good read. You must be the infamous Vegas ;)

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    5. What's the website? I like they name he chose, that's kinda funny.

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    6. Brilliant! Traffic too! Ooo...and Vegas!
      And, it's ~Vegas~ mate

      (You're better than this sweetheart)

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    7. AWWWW well not everyone can be as good as you mate.

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    8. I understand mate. Just, try and pay attention to details is all

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    9. I'll remember that for next time ;)

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    10. https://web.archive.org/web/20010721112558/http://bitch.shutdown.com/


      https://web.archive.org/web/20050322092147/http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com

      when you click on a link, it leaves out "www.misanthropic-bitch.com".

      i.e.:
      https://web.archive.org/web/20050322092147/http://theone.html

      should be

      https://web.archive.org/web/20050322092147/http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/theone.html

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    11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Misanthropic_Bitch

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    12. oh my gawd, thanks for those links. I've been laughing my ass off. This one especially: "The increasingly violent nature of anti-abortion activists is leading to the extinction of the last of the American heroes -- abortion doctors.
      Okay, that was a disgustingly sappy introduction, but I admire abortion doctors more than anyone else in America."

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  11. https://sociopathphilosophy.wordpress.com/about/

    Yes, I asked about that also and they answered the question on their google plus.

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  12. Does anyone here like Edward Gorey?

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  13. Anyone member that chick, Dev? I don't think she was here long. She sounded pretty evil. I don't think a lot of people liked her. I liked her :)

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    Replies
    1. I mean, I wouldn't wanna be in her line of fire or nuthin but....

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    2. No, what's her story

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    3. I dunno, jus evil lol :D She was in the military. I like military chicks. I like the violent femmes whether they're prosocial, antisocial, whatevs

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  14. oh ok, ha yeah one of my friends is ex army and she's a bit rough around the edges ;)

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    Replies
    1. yea i luv that :D....might sound weird being that ima professional and all

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    2. Nope, try again

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    3. haha no, keep trying

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    4. I work in the field of psychology, but I'm not a psychologist. I like what I do better than what psychologists do. It's an exciting time in my field right now for a variety of reasons, and it pays better than what psychologists make.

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    5. I would say psychiatrist or criminal profiler

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  15. Whatever happened to that puppybasket girl? She was cool, although something tells me she woulda slaughtered me in real life :D

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  16. why do we label or attempt to label this and it's alleged attributes? we're all conditioned by our surroundings from birth. why does one assume such a 'thing' as a sociopath? it's merely a result of how we've been brought up. statistically, most people are not genetically defect or advantaged depending upon viewpoint. it's just luck of the die in life's pathway. there is no right, wrong, no rhyme, no reason. only experience. some good, some bad, some ugly. some people are born to abuse and abject poverty, some not. it's a die that was cast at birth. no more, no less. we became conditioned from that point.

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    Replies
    1. That was pretty deep. I'm jus here for some comic relief.

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    2. Thats actually what I like about my field is we don't deal as much with labels. We focus more on behavior and rearranging the environment to influence behavior regardless of what diagnostic category someone falls in. I've worked with some little kid psychos with success, and although we can't address every issue with this approach, we can target some of the problem behaviors that are of biggest concern with this population. Early intervention is key. Also, getting the family involved, but if you can't change the family dynamics, forget it.

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    3. Sorry for my irreverence : / "little kid psychos"

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  17. as am i. ha ha. but if you're here for comic relief, that's a pretty professional reply. having read the book, i feel the author is looking for the raison detre for their situation or perceived difference to the status quo. however, for me, it's simply conditioning of a complex childhood. some abuse leading to a response. cause and effect, fusing of neural pathways, pattern based behavioural response. exacerbated from frequent and perpetual exposure to psychological abuse. mistrust is fused and manipulation, for survival, becomes prevalent. the so called sociopathic traits are simply learned and practised survival responses. not far from primitive and innate. if you can't trust the people in the packs, you must manipulate the pack.

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    1. I dunno, there's gotta be something innate about manipulation. A lot of people are abused that don't become manipulators. I guess you can learn how to manipulate, but you have to be taught those skills. There's some manipulation in my field, but I had learn how to do some of it. Definitly didn't come naturally to me. There's nothing taboo about manipulation in my field, but we're told we have to use it to help people so I guess that's why we get away with it. Skinner clearly knew how to manipulate behavior which makes me wonder about him (Gives Skinner side eye) haha jkjk :D

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    2. i guess. but i'm not sure manipulation in itself is innate, it's the byproduct of an innate need? in order to achieve the pyramid needs for example, one may require manipulation? the physiological and safety needs are largely handed to us in modern evolved society (let's ignore subjected abuse in this instance). in pursuit of those needs, typically manipulation is learned? not necessarily taught? simply trial and error. courting as a perfect example. one can keep changing their approach to attain success. a simple change to what was said, how one dresses, 'a certain look in the eye and an easy smile'. lies damned lies even. you're never at your most false than when you are courting? (groundhog day springs to mind.) that's manipulation 101. trialled and tested until perfected. don't we all manipulate to get what we want? a kiss on the partners cheek before asking a favour? is that manipulation? it's certainly learned and then it becomes a pattern based behaviour. a particular action effected to elicit a preordained and favourable response.

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    3. Oh god yea, I can imagine there is a ton of trial and error with that kind of thing, but it just seems like the impulse to even want to manipulate comes as preinstalled software.

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  18. Sociopathworld in 2009= 1299 comments per blog post

    sociopathworld 2017= https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

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  19. How come the psychopath lady didn't get a reality show? Let's see, she wrote a book, wrote an article for Maxim, went on Dr. Phil...seems like the next step woulda been a reality show.

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  20. Does anyone else here appreciate Lawrence Bittaker's twisted sense of humor? Ok, who is your favorite serial killer? Mine is a female. It's all about the girl power! :D

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  21. Fatal Attraction support group

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_PQrOSzMZ4

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  22. sociopathworld reminds me of a vegas night club. When it first opens, everyone wants to be there. It's completely packed. A few years after it is open, it's completely dead even on a saturday night.

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  23. Ok psychopathworld. I officially give up. I'm getting no responses. My behavior has been placed on extinction. It is no longer coming in to contact with reinforcement. au revior!!! I luved you psychopathworld!!! waves, luvs, hearts, hugs, kisses mwa mwa mwa!!!!!!

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    Replies
    1. Oh come now. We're just getting started. I hate how my phone capitalises. Such a waste. We'll have this forum alight in days. You just gotta want it. And have a dark sense of humour. Smiley face, hugs and kisses.

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    2. ok I lied, I'm back :D I luv black humor :D Has anyone read Alcibiades book? Jus bought it, and was reading it on kindle app. I like how he doesn't try to tone it down to make it more palatable for others.

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    3. Are you a guy? Do you like boobies? My comment about vegas night clubs reminds me of this one club in vegas called The Beach. It was really popular for awhile. They had girls there that wore thongs, and served alcohol, but after awhile even the bikini girls couldn't bring in a crowd.

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    4. Sigh, you didn't respond. See now you are placing my behavior on an intermittent schedule of reinforcement, and it's only going to strengthen my behavior, and now I'm only going to obsessively check even more now if there is a response. I'm trying to leave psychopathworld!!! }:{

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    5. This psychopath stuff is hard to relate to. I always thought psychos were serial killers, and I'm in to that. I dunno what this stuff is about seduction, manipulation, and charm. I don't have any charm. I think I was raised in a barn. I guess I know a little about manipulation now....thanks Skinner.

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  24. skinner box - to gambling addiction - ap psych class - ugh stop this, i keep thinking someone is discussing the primary post

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    1. Actually the skinner box was never mentioned, and when have people ever stuck to the topic on this blog? This isn't some online class where you need to keep people on topic for the discussion post lol :D

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    2. Plus skinner may have been a psycho so it's kind of on topic

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    3. i'm off topic on skinner, i need to read back. but i refer to your earlier responses. i never read that book, no. is it riveting? yes i'm a bloke, you must be a woman. only a female would obsessively check for a response. and no guy would ever refer to a woman's breast as 'boobies'. ha ha .clearly you're not sociopathic as you wouldn't care less. unless you're bored and you're playing. and you have those soft intangible emotions. what brings you to such a forum? boredom? insanity? insomnia? and are you gay? i think sociopaths/psychopaths find manipulation easier as they're not fazed by the negative effects of their actions. ie they lack empathy. however, in order to fit into society they carefully plot their path through life on a risk/reward basis. i guess the psychopathic differs in that the risk/reward assessment is flawed? that's a personal view. thus they can be more dangerous.

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    4. Yea, Ima a female, but I kinda have a inner guy. I love violence, warfare, death and destruction. I still like feminine shit though too. It's kinda weird, but definitely not a traditional female. Can not even relate to those things, and I work in a female dominated profession. It's a nightmare.

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    5. Oh and yea, I like his book. It's only like 5 bucks, and can jus download it on a kindle app. You should get it. I prolly wouldn't wanna know him on a personal level, but I am LOVING his book. I love how he doesn't hold back. Seems like other sociopaths that talk about this stuff still seem like they are exercising some restraint because people will freak out if they are too honest. I feel like it answers some questions I had about it all, and no I'm not a sociopath, but I like to better understand what's similar and what's different. Everyone kind of just has their own unique personality though, and for some, certain characteristics are going to be more prominent than others. A lot of variables contribute to the development of personality.

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    6. you never answered if you are gay? i reckon you swing both ways. that's a hunch. female dominated environments are a nightmare. no offence, but they just bicker relentlessly. and women are just way too emotional. yes i'm stereotyping, but men are just much more pragmatic and laid back. men bitch too, mainly about women. winky face. however, women are better organisers than men. imho. women prefer process in written form, men prefer to carry that shit around in their head. some of the best organisers i know of are female. the feminine shit you like. is it to gain advantage over men? ie, cosmetics etc, seduction and empowerment? or do you secretly like to paint things pink?

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    7. nah i've just always liked feminine things. Has nothing to do with men, but men like to believe that, and that's what they are taught from an early age. But nope, it's always just been all about me :D Why do you ask if I am gay?

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    8. As far as women being more emotional, what about the outliers? Not all women are emotional. It depends on how you define emotion too. Being a scientist, a lot of people think I am kind of cold and clinical, or like I'm like the spock character, but compared to a sociopath, they would probably think I was an emotional train wreck haha :D

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    9. just a hunch.

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    10. i may read the book. i'm out of kindle material at the moment. well, apart from shit that's boring me. i'm going to guess you have a passing interest in criminal psychology. here's a book that may or may not be your cup of tea. donnie brasco - my undercover life in the mafia. it's a true biography about an fbi agent that goes undercover to bring down the mafia. the guy may, at least in part, be sociopathic. he truly has no fear. i'm not sure he displays true empathy either, more a risk/reward response. ie, a duty to protect. indoctrinated within the code of his organisation. but sociopaths don't normally follow a code? unless it gains some kind of advantage? if he didn't protect, that could adversely affect his career. thus staged empathy. a simple risk/reward calculation. but he appears to demonstrate strong personal ethics. can a sociopath be ethical by belief? are ethics conditioned? in the same way one is conditioned to go to church or pray? repetitive pattern based behaviour. however, there was no risk/reward advantage to put himself in harm's way? that could just be deficient risk/reward calculations mind. read the book if you have a spare evening.if it's your thing.

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    11. I don't see why a sociopath couldn't be ethical, but it wouldn't be based on their emotions. I've been trained to put my emotions to the side, and examine things from a more objective perspective. I think over time this effects how emotions are processed. I call it "detached mode". When I'm in detached mode, I'm still guided by an ethic. I don't really have a choice anyway because if I want to stay licensed I have to conduct myself in an ethical manner.

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    12. scientists have analytical minds. by definition they are more pragmatic. your chosen field of science also requires you to override what is innate. you've probably trained yourself to override the initial irrational response. internally you may still get that original fight/flight trigger, but you suppress it for something more balanced and tangible. this in turn makes you appear less emotional. you've simply brain trained yourself.

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    13. doesn't ethics require empathy? well, let's say this differently. natural ethics. a sociopath can follow a code of ethics on a risk/reward basis alone. ie, in a profession. you break the code, you lose your job. that's the downside. but what about ethics that are not regulated or required? where there is no significant downside? can a sociopath be ethical in this regard? i think not.

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    14. I really don't feel any emotion when I'm in more of that detached frame of mind so that includes empathy. I do experience empathy though for certain things, but I process it differently than normal people do. I might have empathy for something or someone that no one cares about and then have complete apathy for what a lot of people seem to care about. I often see the world as more of a place of consequences rather than having really strong ideas about what's right and wrong, but I don't do anything bad because I don't want to deal with those consequences like prison, or ruining myself professionally. I wonder it's similar for sociopaths. I don't think all sociopaths are the same either because a lot of them describe different things so they might respond differently about questions regarding ethics.

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    15. Do you ever go on wastebook? There's a funny page on there for demented souls called goregasm \m/...lotsa black humor

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    16. I was hiking once with my girlfriend. Suddenly a huge brown bear was charging at us, really mad. We must have come close to her cubs. Luckily I had my 9mm pistol with me. One shot to my girlfriend's kneecap was all it took. I could walk away at a comfortable pace.


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    17. Even people who are good for nothing have the capacity to bring a smile to your face, for instance when you push them down the stairs.

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    18. “You da bomb!”

      “No, you da bomb!”

      In America – a compliment. In the Middle East – an argument.

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    19. welp bye nice chatting....and no reeling me in again, and intermittently reinforcing my behavior :D:D:D:D I'm not a sociopath, so I don't think this is my place.....ima go find another outlet to be wierd at

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    20. pmsl. i like the girlfriend comment, that made me lol. however, you forgot to take her handbag.
      but you’ve got no hope of leaving, you’re cursed by your insatiable curiosity. besides, as i say, we’re only just starting out. smiley. i suspect your detached frame of mind is a prepared state, practised and chosen. mood dependent maybe. perhaps you just don’t care enough at any given time. you tune in and out based upon whether your attention merits it at the time? the world is the reaction of a set of actions. cause and consequence as you put it. thinking like a computer is an emotionless state. you certainly fit the risk/reward based approach to navigating yourself through life. your asserted inability to see right and wrong supports a lack of emotional state. it’s certainly a sociopathic trait. as i say, an indoctrinated ethic doesn’t count as it’s infused in the brain’s neural responses. it’s not like you need to think about it. it’s a pattern based response that requires no thought. a little like how you drive a car. do you think about how your hands and feet move when driving a car? it’s autopilot. indoctrinated ethics are auto pilot, they require no thought. the ethics of a profession are not personal ethics, they’re just rules you need to follow. you follow not because you believe in them, but for fear of suffering as a result of a breach. here’s a different slant on ethics. i love this quote as it proves a point. first quoted by steven weinberg and i’m fairly sure richard dawkins repeated it at some point. “with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
      the assertion being that brainwashing can cause people to act in evil ways, yet the individual believes they are following a good cause. they believe in the code of their religion, their ethics. however, the things they do in the name of such a religion can be evil. now take a slightly different angle. the army. you follow a code to kill people in the name of your country. the army follow that code to defend honour and country. is that ethical? is it a religion? what defines religion and what separates it from the acts of going to war in the name not of a deity, but a country? puts an interesting set of additional spins on ethics don't you think? give me an example of empathy that you feel?

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    21. "you’ve got no hope of leaving, you’re cursed by your insatiable curiosity" It's awful, isn't it?

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    22. when you're working until 1am, you gotta shoot bs to keep yourself sane. ha ha. not that i'm sane. or am i? god help the client tomorrow if they try and serve me that ground dirt from a jar. and if that coffee ain't black?, i'm heading straight back.

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    23. or maybe i should just paint them red?

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    24. By the way, if you’re still floatin around out here in the darker regions of the net, I didn’t answer your questions because I prefer to let people debate these kinds of issues that have stronger feelings about them. I prefer to be more of an objective observer. When you’re thinking with emotion, a lot of information ends up being missed. I prefer to have more of a bird’s eye view where I can see everything.

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  25. Empathy is a complex construct and I hate when people dichotomize it, and speak about it in black or white, all or nothing terms. A number of different things can effect whether or not someone has an empathetic response to a situation. For example, proximity plays a role. There is an example I like to use with people to help demonstrate my point. Let's say for example, a neighbor is killed in a grisly murder, I will ask the person how something like this would make them feel. People usually say "sad", "terrible", "that would be awful" etc etc. Then I ask how they would you feel if someone was murdered in China? They usually laugh, and say "nothing".

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  26. Did you like the movie Casino?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Dk5abl98A

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  27. Does anyone else get serious second hand embarrassment watching white girl rappers like Chanel West Coast? I call her channel.

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  28. You're going on a killing spree...what's the soundtrack playing in the background?

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  29. So what was the official descent of psychopath glory? Looks like a ton of copies of this book was sold. Whatever happened to the author? Like where is she at now? What's the story?

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  30. Regarding killing spree?...System Of A Down's Chop Suey for the deed, Dusty Springfields Only Want To Be With You for the aftermath.
    How would you do it?

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    Replies
    1. It would hafta be like a 60's folk tune like Dream a Little Dream. I probably get that from hollywood or something.

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    2. The soundtrack from Natural Born Killers had some good ones.

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