Monday, December 19, 2016

What's wrong with stigma?

One (I hope) good thing to come of the current political climate is that it shows the limits of stigma or social shaming in changing people or behavior. I've written before about this, but it's still very hard for me to understand why people do it or what they hope to accomplish with it. I can't help but thing it's just an evolutionary quirk that didn't get programmed in my own wiring because seemingly otherwise decent people will engage in outrageous and cruel behavior as long as their target is someone they perceive as being "bad" (in their opinion). 

From an Atlantic article entitled "How Stigma Sows Seeds of Its Own Defeat":

In “Too Much Stigma, Not Enough Persuasion,” I argued that the coalition that opposes Donald Trump needs to get better at persuading its fellow citizens and winning converts, rather than leaning so heavily on stigmatizing those who disagree with them. With Trump’s victory in mind, I wrote that among the many problems with relying too heavily on stigma rather than persuasion is that it just doesn’t work.

Noah Millman and Matt Yglesias have smart insights on the same subject.

And one of my readers, Maxwell Gottschall, has a useful coda that applies not just to opposing Donald Trump, but to the larger defense of the liberal project, the constitutional order, and republican government.  Sure, he acknowledged, wielding stigma is often ineffective. But even when it does work to achieve ends that liberals favor, like undermining support for racism or authoritarian demagogues, stigma achieves those victories in a relatively weak, dangerously tenuous manner.

As he put it:
Stigmatization of an idea, by design, intends to convert, not persuade, by bypassing reason and going right for our tribal desire to fit in. But I think the rarely noted effect of this conversion happening is that it robs the converted of the tools to persuade others going forward.  In other words, if you haven't been persuaded by the merits of a political idea, how do you persuade others? You can't without resorting to the same sort of stigmatizing argument. 
This, I think, at least partially explains the left's staleness over the past two years, and the cultural center-left elite's utter shock at the inadequacy of its invincible ascendant coalition. Stigmatization doesn't just turn off perfectly good people who aren't racists but supported Trump (as a blasé example). And it doesn't just make you complacent (which it does). I think it actively contributes to ideological rot.
The problem is that if social shaming is really an evolutionary quirk, all the evidence in the world about its inefficacy is not going to stop people from engaging in it.  The problem is not really in getting to see that stigmas can often often be unhelpful or destructive. Every side seems to have stigmas that they think are unwarranted or unhelpful (e.g. stigmas against gay marriage, having children out of wedlock). However, they also have stigmas that they think are absolutely necessary (e.g. stigmas against perceived homophobia, stigmas against having welfare babies). 

I'd personally love to have people stop stigmatizing things. That seems to me the cleanest, fairest, most efficient, and most beneficial solution. But that's like saying we should stop war. Given that's not going to happen, I guess the only thing left for us to do is to hide those parts of us that would be stigmatized or try to change minds? I honestly wouldn't blame anyone for doing the former. 

248 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Vegas will be shattered.

      -k.b.

      Delete
    2. Hey Damaged-

      I could've been first, but decided I should try and chill, so that M.E. doesn't think I'm a creepy stalker...

      :)

      Hey k.b.-

      If I couldn't have been first if I wanted to, I might be shattered...

      :):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey, M.E.!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. Hey, M.E.!!!

      PS-I loved this post, and I ESPECIALLY LOVE, your Brodsky retweet!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    5. Hey, Vegas!!!

      What creepy stalker trick are you hiding up your sleeve that makes you *so sure* you can always be first?

      You've asserted this confidently before. Sounds like you have an inside scoop.

      Would that deduction, prove correct???

      :)

      ~The Riddler

      Delete
    6. Hey Riddler...

      Perhaps, she could have been using an RSS reader? It's a really handy tool for getting quick updates for any blogs you follow. I've certainly used it a few times to get first...

      How can you be so sure she is an "insider"?

      Well, I guess we'll never know...

      :)

      Delete
    7. We'll never know, if you don't permit her to speak for herself.

      Anyone can use an RSS reader.

      But maybe, we'll know,

      When she stops

      ***********BLUSHING***********

      And decides, how she wants to respond.

      For herself.

      :)

      Delete
    8. The Riddler-

      "Creepy Stalkers" don't give away their secrets...

      :)

      I've given up that game, and now you'll never know...

      :):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    9. Hey-SE!!!

      My "Protector"...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  2. Stigma is definitely an evolutionary quirk. It's a part of our reactionary decision making process. For example, maybe that wolf is actually friendly, or not hungry, but it's a lot safer to assume otherwise lest it end up wearing your face as a muzzle.

    It's effectively the post-stereotype phase of this whole phenomenon. Gays are stereotyped as degenerate: therefore, they should be shunned. Conservatives are stereotyped as greedy women-haters: therefore, anything they say should be disregarded.

    This was useful in our evolutionary process; wolves love snacking on face: therefore, we should keep our faces away from them. But nowadays, it simply feeds into the culty reaches of our socialized brain. Which means its inherently destructive or at least reductive in almost all scenarios.

    -k.b.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey k.b.-

      What's the orgy scene like, this time of year???

      More active, the same, or less active (compared to other times, during the year)???

      Just curious...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Hello Sociopathworld! Hello M.E!!! I used to come and post here before you had the book :)

      Happy holidays to all at sociopathworld, Are any of the old people who used to post still on?

      Also k.b.-Your orgy story is the nuttiest thing Ive ever read! But I couldnt help trying to put myself in that mans shoes (also was there coke and/or meth or other great drugs? Is there always drugs? I happen to like drugs)

      So iam thinking what if I was an overbearing dick at an orgy, trying to be all top dog, you fuck this one here and that one there, and you get seperated and are in a room with a hot naked lady (Ok guys in order to do this right Iam assuming k.b. is banging, up there on the 1-10 scale, pretty smile even!)

      So, I find myself naked with a banging naked lady (what do ya think iam gonna do this is an orgy afterall!) so Iam thinking of how I would react if you said all those things to me while i was banging you, First thing I would be so confused, baffled even, if I wasent drunk I would probably start to shake a bit but in trying to stop shaking I would only shake more and you would whisper something like "Whats wrong? Shake-Fuck me tough guy" and I would probably have some sort of out of body experience too, I think.

      But if I "found myself at an orgy" I owouldnt be there directing people like a porno, What went wrong in that mans life that he does such things? "Napoleon Complex"? aka Little mans syndrome or some type of "Inferiority complex"

      Also, honestly here k.b. HOW DID YOU NOT LAUGH?!?!?!!?! If I did that to some lady I could probably barely hide the absolute joy I got out of it , how did you pull it off?

      Delete
  3. People are becoming more aware. They know something isn't right but they still aren't sure collectively exactly what that something is. So they shift to the other end of the spectrum thinking the answer lies there. They are still caught up in epic thinking patterns. They are deeply ingrained in us all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fuck off pussy. I'm better than u in ever way

      Delete
    2. Adam-

      Pussies are powerful...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey Vegas!!!

      LOL!!! Nice one!!!

      :)

      Delete
    4. Hey SE!!!

      I'm glad you liked that...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    5. Hey Vegas!!!

      That one was definitely a "ballbuster"...

      :)

      Delete
    6. Hey SE!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    7. Anon @ 8:16-

      Thank you!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  4. I'm all out of fortune cookies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon @ 1:11-

      It's interesting that you said that, because I also noticed today, that I have no cookies.:(

      It's the holiday season-I'll need to remedy that!!!

      PS-I hope you got more fortune cookies!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Wait, I've got one.

      "If you don't get the joke then you probably are the joke."

      Delete
  5. Adam-

    I meant to tell you-I liked the songs you shared, on the last post...

    Thank you!!!

    :)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Adam-

      I also liked what you shared, about your "inner world".:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Now that you mention it, Adam...

      I wonder who...?

      Delete
    3. Nice one. I'm going to see black sabbath next month. I'm not even a big rock fan but the energy will be immense and Ozzie Osborne is hilarious. Anyone who strangled Sharon Osborne has my respect. I'm into 80s music (yes! the stereotype is true people. all psychos love their 80s tunes) and I love gangster rap because of its aggressive message

      Delete
    4. Adam-

      Where are you seeing Sabbath???

      I didn't know, that Ozzie strangled Sharon-do you dislike her???

      Did you ever watch their reality show???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  6. Hey SE!!!

    I checked out your link to the car chase scene, in the 1974 version of Gone in 60 Seconds...

    IT WAS AWESOME!!!

    :)

    I can see, why you like it...

    :):)

    I'll definitely have to see that whole movie!!!

    :):):)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Vegas!!!

      That car chase scene, from the version of Gone in 60 Seconds, made in 1974, was ridiculous, wasn't it???

      :)

      I gotta ask, though, 'cause I'm, you know, just curious...

      :):)

      What did you think of that 2-minute car jump scene???

      :):):)

      Delete
    2. Hey Vegas!!!

      PS -

      I just had some DELICIOUS coffee!!!

      :)

      Delete
    3. Hey SE!!!!!!! !

      Who gives a FUCK!!!

      :)

      -Vegas

      Delete
    4. Hey, Vegas!!!

      Oh, hello there...

      :)

      Yeah!!!
      Who gives a FUCK???

      :):)

      Delete
    5. Hey SE!!!

      The comment at 7:39 wasn't from me...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    6. Hey Vegas!!!

      So, the copycat is back, then?

      This should be fun...

      :)

      Delete
    7. Hey SE!!!

      That is quite a "car jump" scene, in that movie-both the 1974 & 2000 versions!!!

      :)

      I'm glad you had some delicious coffee-I'm going to have some now, too!!!

      :):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    8. Hey Vegas!!!

      It is nice that you think that the "car jump" scenes, from the 1974 version, and the 2000 version, are quite the "car jump" scenes!!!

      :)

      That is AWESOME to hear!!! I hope you enjoy your coffee!!!

      :):)

      Delete
    9. Hey SE!!!

      In the 1974 "Gone In 60 Seconds", I loved the motorcycles, with the seats on the back!!!

      :)

      I think those would be fun to sit in!!!

      :):)

      Do you have a Mustang, like in that movie???

      Just curious...

      :):):)

      The senior citizen lady with the umbrella, totally cracked me up, in that scene!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):):)

      The people sitting on the grass cracked me up, too-that probably would've been me...

      :):):):):)

      I liked the Cunard ship!!! I haven't cruised on Cunard yet-my guess was that it was the Queen Elizabeth II, but it turned out to be the Queen Mary...

      :):):):):):)

      It was cool to see the San Pedro Pier-I've taken cruises, from there...

      :):):):):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    10. Hey, SE!!!

      PS-I'm drinking my "Winning Delicious Coffee"!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    11. Hey Vegas!!!

      Hi.

      :)

      Are you watching the "Gone in 60 Seconds" movie version from 1974 at the time of writing???

      Just curious...

      :):)

      Nope.

      :):):)

      And... "Wake & Bake" is a really nice word, isn't it???

      :):):):)

      Delete
    12. Hey, SE!!!

      Hi.

      :)

      "Are you watching the "Gone in 60 Seconds" movie version from 1974 at the time of writing???"

      Nope. Why??? Were you???

      Just curious...

      :):)

      "Wake & Bake" is a really nice word, isn't it???"

      Yep.

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    13. Hey!!! Vegas!!!

      Hi.

      :)

      "Nope. Why??? Were you???

      Just curious..."

      Nope, just curious...

      :):)

      "Yep."

      Yeah.

      :):):)

      Delete
    14. Hey!!! SE!!!

      Hi.

      :)

      You're funny...

      :):)

      I was just thinking something funny...

      :):):)

      I was thinking it would be funny, if M.E. wore a HOT OUTFIT, and went to visit Santa, and sit on his lap...

      :):):):)

      She could be WAY TOO EXCITED, to sit on his lap and get her picture taken with him, and make Santa and others uncomfortable...

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

      :):):):):)

      Do you think, that would be hilarious???

      :):):):):):)

      I do...

      :):):):):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    15. Hey, SE!!!

      PS-M.E. could even wear her blonde wig from the Dr. Phil show for the picture with Santa, and then she could share it with all of us, as her next post!!!

      THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

      :)

      Don't you think???

      :):)

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    16. Hey! Vegas!!!

      Hi.

      :)

      That would be REALLY FUNNY!!!

      :):)

      It would be HILARIOUS!!!

      :):):)

      IT WOULD BE REALLY AWESOME, if M.E. got people uncomfortable, by wearing a HOT OUTFIT, and a BLONDE WIG, by sitting on Santa's lap, and recorded it, to share it with us, and shared the video with us!!!

      :):):):)

      Sharing is caring!!!

      :):):):):)

      Delete
    17. Hey! SE!!!

      Hi.

      :)

      That would be TOO FUNNY FOR WORDS!!!

      :):)

      I wonder if M.E. is reading this, and if she'll actually do it??? If she does, I don't know, if I'll be able to stop laughing!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):)

      IT WOULD BE REALLY AWESOME!!! Imagine M.E. in a HOT OUTFIT/BLONDE WIG, sitting on Santa's lap, and maybe even kissing him on the cheek/touching his thigh!!! She could have someone take pics/video.:) I wonder how uncomfortable Santa/people would be???

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):):)

      I also wonder if Santa would say:

      "Ho, Ho, Ho!!! What do you want for Christmas, little girl???"

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):):):)

      OMG!!! I HOPE SHE DOES THAT, AND SHARES IT WITH US!!! THAT WOULD BE HYSTERICAL!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):):):):)

      SHARING IS CARING!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):):):):):)

      PS-I've thought about saying "Sharing Is Caring", many times since I've been here, although I don't think I ever have...

      :):):):):):):):)

      PPS-I'm drinking my "Winning Delicious Coffee"!!!

      :):):):):):):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    18. Hey, SE!!!

      PS-Talking about M.E. sitting on Santa's lap, and M.E.'s re-tweet mentioning "The Grinch", made me think of Christmas movies...

      MY FAVORITE CHRISTMAS MOVIE IS "A Christmas Story"!!!

      :)

      I think my 2nd favorite Christmas movie is "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation"...

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):)

      Do you have a favorite Christmas movie???

      :):):)

      SHARING IS CARING!!!

      :):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    19. Hey!! Vegas!!!

      Hello.

      :)

      Indeed, it would be UPROARIOUS!!!

      :):)

      We'll see!!! It would definitely be INDESCRIBABLY FUNNY!!!

      :):):)

      Yeah!!! And then she goes about her business, like nothing's wrong!!!

      :):):):)

      ""Ho, Ho, Ho!!! What do you want for Christmas, little girl???""

      That is SO STUPID, yet it is SO FUNNY!!!

      :):):):):)

      LOL!!! I ALSO HOPE SHE DOES THAT, AND RECORDS THAT, AND SHARES THE VIDEO RECORDING OF THAT!!!

      :):):):):):)

      SHARING IS CARING!!!

      :):):):):):):)

      My favourite Christmas movie???

      Uh...

      I watched "A Christmas Horror Story" some time ago... It was awesome - Santa vs Krampus!!!

      :):):):):):):):)

      PS -

      Is "SHARING IS CARING!!!" your new "Just curious..."???

      Just curious... - Sharing is Caring!!!

      :):):):):):):):):)

      Delete
    20. Hey!! SE!!!

      Hello.

      "LOL!!! I ALSO HOPE SHE DOES THAT, AND RECORDS THAT, AND SHARES THE VIDEO RECORDING OF THAT!!!"

      Maybe we'll "get lucky", and M.E. will do that!!!

      :)

      It'd be PRICELESS!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):)

      I've heard of "A Christmas Horror Story", but haven't seen it. William Shatner's in it...

      :):):)

      "Is "SHARING IS CARING!!!" your new "Just curious..."???

      Do you want it to be???

      :):):):)

      "Just curious... - Sharing is Caring!!!"

      You're funny...

      :):):):):)

      Have you seen "A Christmas Story"??? That movie is HILARIOUS!!!

      :):):):):):)

      I have a "mini version" of "The Leg Lamp", and a "Leg Lamp Nightlight", amongst other things...

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :):):):):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    21. You fucking tool.

      You know you're being played, right?

      Like a ribbon in the hand of a rhythmic gymnast.

      :):):):):):):):):):):):)

      Delete
    22. Hey... Vegas!!!

      Hi-ya.

      :)

      Maybe we will "get lucky"!!!

      :):)

      Definitely, that would be BEYOND PRICE, if M.E. did "that"!!!

      :):):)

      "Do you want it to be???"

      Do you want me, to want it to be???

      :):):):)

      No, I have not seen the movie, "A Christmas Story"...

      :):):):):)

      "You're funny..."

      I am glad, that you think, that I am funny...

      :):):):):):)

      I am not familiar with that specific lamp, the "The Leg Lamp" lamp...

      Is the lamp, "The Leg Lamp", a lamp from the movie, "The Christmas Story"???

      SHARING IS CARING!!!
      ...and...
      Just curious...

      :):):):):):):)

      Delete
    23. Now, now, "Anonymous"...

      It's not nice to call someone a "fucking tool"...

      Delete
    24. Now, now, "Anonymous"...

      Who am I?

      It's not nice to call someone a "fucking tool"...

      So?

      ***

      We're still waiting for the punchline... with "baited" breath.

      Delete
    25. (^Only grammar nerds will get that) ;)

      Delete
    26. Anon @ 2:32 & 2:35-

      I must be a "grammar nerd", since I immediately thought of both meanings, right away...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    27. Hey-SE!!!

      "My Protector/Defender"...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  7. Hey, M.E.!!!

    Your "Lawyer Thoughts" retweet, was hilarious!!!

    HA!!! LOL!!!

    :)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  8. What reason would society have to show anymore love, respect or empathy to a sociopath then they give? I think they should be treated the same way they treat others. Without sympathy remorse or regret.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hey anon, yeah why not... problem is, that you (most of the times) don't know if you are interacting with a sociopath because they are good in disguising themselves and their true intentions...

      alice

      Delete
  9. Hi M.E.

    Stigmatisation is a negative tactic and so constructs nothing. It can be a galvanisation point for the fearful and the disenfranchised. Unless, however, there is a positive strategy to handle a disadvantageous situation, stigmatisation as a normalisation mechanism must peter out as mere rhetoric.

    I guess the only thing left for us to do is to hide those parts of us that would be stigmatized or try to change minds? I honestly wouldn't blame anyone for doing the former.
    M.E., I think it's important to be clear on the goal here.

    It's the anti-social drives that create the crux of this issue for sociopaths / psychopaths. Anon 11:56am is demonstrating it very clearly: society will not accept unfair behaviour.

    Unfair behaviour will always be rejected because society depends on reciprocal altruism to function. And because every individual has impulses to cheat and take advantage where feasible, we are all hot-wired to detect and reject unfairness [I recommend Robert Sapolsky's Stanford lectures on Human Behaviour - I think this is covered in the first two.]

    There is naturally a lot more effort involved in developing positive strategies as opposed to negative ones such as stigmatisation. Creativity, problem-solving, convincing others. It's a big investment.

    As discussed here quite regularly, there is a disjunct between cognitive experience and behaviour. While unfair behaviours will never be tolerated, humans are quite willing to accept the validity of another's cognitive experience [I highly recommend Oliver Sacks' case studies for examples].

    Sociopaths don't always act unfairly and without reciprocity and to disarm stigmatisation, it's this fact that must be borne out.

    This time around, I have been seeing **-* for 8 months. He has been acting fairly and respectfully because I asked for that, I expect that and I call out any breaches, just as he does with me. There is reciprocity and mutual benefit. And that's why it's working. I don't know how long it will work, but that goes for any relationship, haha.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hey north, do you think sociopaths, and people generally, want to overcome these negative stigmas? I think most people don't care... especially if they are not involved. I mean you often hear people talking about this topic and how to overcome stigmas etc, but I guess most people don't change their minds or simply don't care. btw thanks for sharing the link of the lectures :)

      alice

      Delete
    2. Hi alice,

      I replied earlier, not sure what happened.

      I think you're correct: people won't generally care enough to act/change unless they perceive a benefit (whatever that might look like for them and keeping in mind neurotypicals and psychopaths experience different paradigms of biological incentivisation.)

      Psychopathy occurs quite frequently enough that learning better practices for handling ourselves in social situations can be of great benefit. 1 in a hundred - that's like a handful at my sons' school, how many of my colleagues etc

      The lessons can also be generalised to improve all of one's relationships.

      I do think though that most of the effort to dismantle any stigma is incumbent on sociopaths/psychopaths to expend since they stand to benefit the most (but now I say this, I wonder...)

      What do you think? What might the benefits be from your perspective? Would the potential for greater self expression by worth the risk and effort or do you find adequate channels as it is?

      Delete
    3. hey north, kind of missed your posts... they always give me a new angel of view and make me think... well I think that (regarding sociopaths/psychopaths) dismantling the stigmas does not make a big difference, because if someone is treating people unfair etc you will take action no matter what the reason for this is... at least I would, what's about you (or anyone else who like to answer)? (I mean if there is a mosquito sitting on your arm I guess you will kill it or chase it away even if you understand it just wants your blood due to its nature...) so due to this I would not put any effort in dismantling any stigmas. I think it would not change the reaction of people to certain actions and if I would consider these actions as "self expression" I guess it's not worth the risk. by contrast overcoming the stigmas of for instance gay marriage (or something similar) has a positive impact I guess. probably because it's a negative stigma of positive or neutral traits/behaviour/actions and not like, regarding sociopathy, a negative stigma of traits/behaviour/actions that are indeed negative to the people...

      alice

      Delete
    4. alice,

      That's a key point you make at the end there.

      Would I take action in response to unfairness, regardless of cause? Very interesting question, actually. I think that it's relatively natural to consider extenuating circumstances or mitigating factors when seeking reparation. That is, especially where time is taken for consideration, and not necessarily when in the red haze of anger, haha. And I think this holds generally, why we see attempts to codify fairness (I.e. through some consistency at least) in our justice systems.

      We generally speaking don't want to respond unfairly lest the cycle be perpetuated. I'm not saying this is a conscious mechanism, it's more that we are biased towards a proportionate response (outside of the immediate emotional reactions.) We may seek to establish a consensus around a response, too, to help ensure our own safety, I.e. to ensure it's socially acceptable. Not always mind you. Sometimes we feel others won't understand and we consider the risk worthwhile.

      So are psychopaths morally responsible for their actions? My view is morality has very poor explanatory power for human behaviour, so I won't answer that question. I would say a reason psychopaths experience backlash is that wilful, deliberated unfairness is perceived as culpable behaviour of the worst kind, triggering a reasoning process that demands maximal reparation where possible. But are there extenuating circumstances for the psychopath? They can't help but to seek unfair advantage? I'm not of the view that can fly, unfortunately. As Thomas Szasz says, I'm for freedom and responsibility. In these contexts this means for the neurotypical that they should be aware of the risks psychopaths pose and be responsible for protecting themselves and theirs. For psychopaths, it means finding ways to take care of themselves that don't injure others without warrant. There are ways to achieve these things... at least, that is my utopian vision. But some are less concerned with consequence and it may not appeal.

      We are humans and humans crash into one another.

      Delete
    5. North I feel everyone not just sociopaths must transcend consequences to truly be whole. I think sociopaths feel there are unfair standards that nons somehow find it easy to live up to. I think they define this as morality. We all are at different places in our lives. But when we can act without fear of consequence it seems we are at a higher state.

      Delete
    6. I think sociopaths feel there are unfair standards that nons somehow find it easy to live up to. I think they define this as morality.

      What an interesting view. Scrolling Twitter last I thought again that it's primarily philosophers and
      sociopaths interested in talking about morality for its own sake. Religious and political types talk about morality in a normative way.

      Perhaps what you're saying makes sense of it. **-* has a hyperfocus on honesty. Always talking about it. I asked him why and he said "if they can't be honest, why should I be?"

      I think it holds for many of M.E.'s musings too.

      Yes, we all want to be treated fairly. It's perhaps the most important element of our social equipment, and not just humanity's.

      when we can act without fear of consequence it seems we are at a higher state.
      I agree. To reach this place means looking in the face of all learned fears and taming them. It's then we can act congruently, aligning feelings, thoughts and actions. It is the path with heart, which is in fact much easier than compliance with an externally imposed route.

      Delete
    7. North I was told everything I say is true. That in itself was bizarre to me. The only other time anyone ever tried to drive that concept into my brain was at church. the concept that every word in the Bible is true and in order to believe in god you must believe every word. It is quite the concept.

      Delete
    8. "We are humans and humans crash into one another." I like this :)
      "My view is morality has very poor explanatory power for human behaviour" ... I think morality is an important part of the explanation of human behaviour because this is deeply rooted in our personality. the way we were raised and how our parents interacted with us (e.g. their moralities) had a huge influence on the developement of our personality. and i guess this is deeply influencing our actions and reactions. and like everyone has different moral values, there are different views of fairness and I think this will make it impossible to achieve your utopian vision.

      "when we can act without fear of consequence it seems we are at a higher state."
      what do you mean with higher state? i think if people act without fearing the consequences there will be much more stupid actions on impulse and based on emotions like anger or envy. this will cause a lot of trouble i guess...

      alice

      Delete
    9. anon, we all create our own realities. To impose them on others, to not realise that our particular view cannot ever be complete is, I think, makes for a constrained life, vacant of possibility.

      alice,

      I think what you are saying is that morality is not absolute and I agree with that. Underlying morality - ie behaviour according to a shared code - is something far stronger, and that is normalisation. It's the need to be accepted within a social group that drives uptake of common behaviour patterns or codes.

      But the need to fit in, to fit certain standards of behaviour, is only one of our needs as organisms. Where our other needs (e.g. physical safety, self-determination) are not being met, it's the behaviour codes that are often ditched.

      My view is there is really more foundational drivers for human behaviour that support our individual survival. Being social individuals, however, we are most likely to be contributing positively to the survival of the group when we are capable of taking care of our own needs. When this happens, it's very natural for us to contribute to our tribe, and needs no sort of formal mandate.

      "i think if people act without fearing the consequences there will be much more stupid actions on impulse and based on emotions like anger or envy. this will cause a lot of trouble i guess."
      It might read like that, but in practice, it's not the case. In practice, when we learn to act congruently - feelings, thoughts and actions aligned - our brain is always learning. If we do something impulsive that brings about negative consequences, we can learn from that by simply acknowledging it, reflecting on it. It's the data of experience; and our brain absorbs it, giving us the foundation for wiser choices in the future. By "wiser", I mean more effective for our social existence.

      I don't mean that we ought to act on impulse, although that happens sometimes, and I've never regretted it. We feel anger or frustration, but we also learn that allowing those feelings to flow and to dissipate informs us of what we really want from a situation. So I don't advocate repressing those feelings either. Shihan Essence has a little poster that reads:

      Open your heart.
      Free your mind.

      I think that's how it works. When you create space for your feelings, your mind can get past the block they set in place for your thoughts. Suddenly, creative solutions appear to achieve what you really wanted.

      Simple example: my son was very upset this morning that he won't get a gaming PC for Christmas. He eventually managed to express he is actually upset that the current setup he and his brother have is unfair. He expected me to solve this by outlaying a ton of cash.

      I was angry and frustrated and that's really all I could see: two ungrateful, selfish sons. Then I went for a walk, let those feelings run off inside me and do their thing. Pretty soon, I forgot about it and a solution arose: the boys themselves ought to come up with a fair arrangement. I put it to the boys, and all of a sudden the little one remembered the very cool things that will be happening for him at Christmas time.

      This is why I prefer to focus on personal responsibility and effective social practices. As William James says: "truth is what works."

      Delete
    10. All that said, this is just my lens. Lots of people approach these sorts of questions through the perspective of values and I admit that's very foreign to me.

      **-* does this and he makes good points, but somehow I haven't internalised them. All I've achieved so far pertaining to understanding this difference is appreciating that MBTI Thinker types consider situations in terms of effective or efficient social solutions where Feeler types make assessments based on values. Hence the twin social considerations of collaboration and effectiveness that underpin many of our solutions and enterprise.

      Delete
    11. North sociopath make lots of good points. I was thinking today about all of those good points that were strategically thrown my way. The devil truly is in the details. What a strange way to communicate.

      Delete
    12. Hey anon,

      Yes, it's quite funny. I think the indirect / incomplete /strategic comms are a way of transferring all risk to us. It's a bit frustrating for its anti-collaborative nature. It runs against our grain.

      Delete
    13. North I agree. A lot of " do you really think" responses. Everything is to try to persuade not communicate. I believe that is why you feel you never knew the person because they never communicate much about themselves.

      Delete
    14. North I guess the difference is I wanted to experience a connection not create a bond. I am so much more aware of it now. There is a distinct difference. I still can't get over how unnatural the whole process is. They were just looming over me watching and waiting as I was just skipping along. I am an adult and it's very traumatic. I can't imagine being a child and having something like this happen.

      Delete
    15. hey north, the thing about morality, it's pretty much what I wanted to say. and I see you point... seems logical that we want to take care of ourselves and that we want to survive and that this influences our behaviour. but what i don't understand is why are there people who sacrifice themselves (their lives) to save other people. not always their family (i can kind of understand that) but also strangers? why are they doing this? I like the story with you sons (hope they were peased with whatever they got for christmas)... could have been my mother's story, actually you sound a lot like her...

      alice

      Delete
    16. Alice hello. It is amazing how people will sacrifice themselves for others . I don't think people think of it as a sacrifice though. It is something that is done without thinking. Is it an instinct? I don't know. It is something that makes us more than ourselves.

      Delete
    17. Hi anon,

      Everything is to try to persuade not communicate. I believe that is why you feel you never knew the person because they never communicate much about themselves. Yes. And then sometimes I feel he gives so much space for me to play out my own patterns or to fulfil my own fantasy. Perhaps that is how he holds his mirror. He reacts to what I paint on the blank canvas he holds. (I think this might be similar to what you wrote regarding fulfilling fantasies...)

      I am an adult and it's very traumatic. It is traumatic, yes. Unexpected, antithetical, anti-pattern. I heard a phrase today: the pain pushes until the vision pulls.

      "Experience is a brutal teacher. But you learn. By God, you learn."

      I think the trauma forced me to learn, to make space for this paradigm. That doesn't mean I had to become the paradigm or even conquer it. We only ever need achieve ourselves.

      Delete
    18. Hi alice (and anon),

      but what i don't understand is why are there people who sacrifice themselves (their lives) to save other people. not always their family (i can kind of understand that) but also strangers? why are they doing this?
      I thought about this a lot. I've seen many articles spring up in places like New Scientist where the focus of questions around moral behaviour are primarily as you suggest: what's with altruism? i.e. why are we not more selfish?

      anon makes a good point, which reminded me of Simon Sinek's anecdote about "Johnny Bravo" - I recommend watching it...
      "I asked him why would you risk your life so that others may survive?And he gave me the same answer that everyone in his position gives: Because they would have done it for me."

      I feel robotic whacking a simple concept / label on something that is felt so powerfully, poetically, beautifully. Even hearing these sorts of stories, we feel lifted beyond ourselves, transcendent.

      But this means, like other species, we are physiologically rewarded for reciprocal altruism.

      Here's another piece that may interest you: What do animals think?. Author Carl Safina describes the life arc of a magnanimous alpha wolf in Yellowstone:

      Wolves can't foresee such plot twists any more than people can. But evolution does. Its calculus integrates long averages. By sparing the Casanova wolf, Twenty-one actually helped assure himself more surviving descendants. And in evolution, surviving descendants are the only currency that matters.

      So in strictly survivalist terms, "should" a wolf let his rival go free? Is restraint an effective strategy for accumulating benefits? I think the answer is yes, if you can afford it, because sometimes your enemy today becomes, tomorrow, a vehicle for your legacy. What Rick saw play out over those years might be just the kinds of events that are the basis for magnanimity in wolves, and at the heart of mercy in men.

      Delete
    19. I found this primer on evolutionary psychology today and thought it both highly interesting of itself and also pertinent to our discussion here.

      It was (and is) common to think that other animals are ruled by "instinct" whereas humans lost their instincts and are ruled by "reason", and that this is why we are so much more flexibly intelligent than other animals. William James took the opposite view. He argued that human behavior is more flexibly intelligent than that of other animals because we have more instincts than they do, not fewer. We tend to be blind to the existence of these instincts, however, precisely because they work so well -- because they process information so effortlessly and automatically. They structure our thought so powerfully, he argued, that it can be difficult to imagine how things could be otherwise. As a result, we take "normal" behavior for granted. We do not realize that "normal" behavior needs to be explained at all. This "instinct blindness" makes the study of psychology difficult. To get past this problem, James suggested that we try to make the "natural seem strange":

      "It takes...a mind debauched by learning to carry the process of making the natural seem strange, so far as to ask for the why of any instinctive human act. To the metaphysician alone can such questions occur as: Why do we smile, when pleased, and not scowl? Why are we unable to talk to a crowd as we talk to a single friend? Why does a particular maiden turn our wits so upside-down? The common man can only say, Of course we smile, of course our heart palpitates at the sight of the crowd, of course we love the maiden, that beautiful soul clad in that perfect form, so palpably and flagrantly made for all eternity to be loved!

      And so, probably, does each animal feel about the particular things it tends to do in the presence of particular objects. ... To the lion it is the lioness which is made to be loved; to the bear, the she-bear. To the broody hen the notion would probably seem monstrous that there should be a creature in the world to whom a nestful of eggs was not the utterly fascinating and precious and never-to-be-too-much-sat-upon object which it is to her.

      Thus we may be sure that, however mysterious some animals' instincts may appear to us, our instincts will appear no less mysterious to them." (William James, 1890)


      My working hypothesis over at least the past 18 months - 2 years is that our feelings and emotions are evolutionarily gifted processing shortcuts. There are many implications... and I imagine it will be a fairly short period of time before human culture recognises, appreciates, values and constructively utilises the fact we are fully animal. Then we can stop working against our natures and teach each other to grow in accordance with them.

      Delete
    20. Oh and alice, I remember you were interested in creativity. You might like this All in the Mind podcast: Creativity and Mental Illness

      "but the brain if we really understand it is a big complex orchestra where different parts are performing spontaneously and without a conductor. "

      I love that idea!

      Which reminds me, haha, of the conclusion of the podcast:

      "One of the subjects in my study was a scientist who, when we were at the end, said, 'There's one more thing I want to say. But you have to turn off that microphone.' And then he said, 'You know, doing good science is like having good sex, it just makes you feel wonderful all over. It's such a pleasure to do good science, to have a good idea.' And the cute thing is that here is this extremely nice, slightly nerdy scientist who did not want my secretary to transcribe that because he would be embarrassed if she heard what he had to say."

      I'm not a scientist but I know exactly what he means :)

      If you get around to listening or reading the transcript, let us know what you think and whether it answered any questions or simply raised more :)

      Delete
    21. I have chosen mercy. Not because it has been shown to me. Not because I can afford it because really i don't know if I can. But because I can choose it.

      Delete
  10. Hello folks, I hope everyone is doing well.

    My apologies I don't really have much to say on the topic here. Since M.E. brought up "evolutionary quirks" I do want to say that you should consider listening to some famous - but almost unheard of - critics of Darwin's theory. I have to admit that what I once considered to be an obvious fact seems to be anything but that. Check this out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl802lHAk5Y

    P.S. My apologies if I said anything wrong to anyone in my previous posts. This place can get to you sometimes but that doesn't justify any wrong on your part.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jonaid, you are a true man.

      +1up.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for sharing the link, Jonaid.

      However, I personally do not find the theory neither plausible, nor scientifically sound.

      I would urge you to visit this webpage, as it explains pretty nicely and concisely why that theory is, in all likelyhood, invalid.

      I understand that you believe sincerely in the theory, and want to share it with the world, but regardless, the theory, in my opinion, is not plausible, and until some hard evidence supporting your theory emerges, I don't think it can be considered seriouly as fact.

      Thank you for reading, and I hope you will sincerely reconsider your support for the theory.

      Delete
    3. I have misread your comment.

      It appears I made a mistake.

      My sincerest apologies to you, Jonaid - it has been a hard day.

      Delete
    4. No worries I hope today goes better for you!

      Meyers is a critic of Darwin's theory and his argument is so simple, logical and brilliant that it forces you to rethink everything.

      Delete
    5. Thank you for your thoughts, Jonaid...

      Delete
    6. Atheists are moronsDecember 29, 2016 at 2:22 AM

      "...[W]e now have a wealth of experience showing that what I call specified or functional information (especially if encoded in digital form) does not arise from purely physical or chemical antecedents... On the other hand, we do know of a cause—a type of cause—that has demonstrated the power to produce functionally-specified information. That cause is intelligence or conscious rational deliberation. As the pioneering information theorist Henry Quastler once observed, “the creation of information is habitually associated with conscious activity.” And, of course, he was right. Whenever we find information... and we trace it back to its source, invariably we come to mind, not merely a material process. Thus, the discovery of functionally specified, digitally encoded information along the spine of DNA, provides compelling positive evidence of the activity of a prior designing intelligence. This conclusion is not based upon what we don’t know. It is based upon what we do know... about what does, and does not, have the power to produce large amounts of specified information." -- [Stephen Meyer, Response to Darrell Falk’s Review of Signature in the Cell, 2009]

      Delete
    7. Who discovered "digitally encoded information along the spine of DNA", and how was it discovered? How can he be 100% certain it's true?

      How is that "evidence" of "activity of a prior designing intelligence"?

      From what I could gather, according to that quote, the mind creates and stores information, therefore, it's proof of a "creator". You'll excuse me if I'm highly skeptical of the theory, as I believe it contains a lot of assumptions.

      I think it's best to agree to disagree, don't you agree?

      Delete
    8. ev·i·dence

      noun
      1.
      the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

      "the study finds little evidence of overt discrimination"
      synonyms: proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation, attestation
      "they found evidence of his plotting"

      Recent advances in the fields of bioinformatics and quantum mechanics demonstrate a level of cellular and molecular organization existing within a 3D matrix of information so structurally complex, operating within an environment so well suited to the development of life, that their designation of "accidental" can objectively be deemed as statistically absurd.

      The physical manifestation of life in a universe possessing the same physical constants as ours is such an unlikely, adaptive, and intelligent phenomenon, that the only way proponents of philosophical naturalism can mitigate the consequences of the anthropic principle, and thereby counter the statistical improbability of the universe existing at all, is to presuppose the existence of a Multiverse, a theory which requires every bit as much faith to accept- both philosophically and logically- as a belief in an Intelligent Designer, aka "God". (YHWH, in particular, for excellent reasons I can't be arsed to discuss at the moment.)

      Given the odds, it is *much* more strategically sound to presume the existence of God than to cling stupidly to atheism.


      I think it's best to agree to disagree, don't you agree?

      Obviously not. :)

      Delete
    9. The theory is interesting.

      However, it is also likely that, considering the vastness of the universe, with practically infinite probabilities, that the opposite could've happened - that, there are infinite variations between each and every environment in the universe, and that the environment on Earth was supportive to the creation of life - if you guess enough times, you're bound to be right at least once, and the chemicals reactions that led to the creation of life on Earth could've been "led" by that environment towards the creation of DNA, et cetera.

      Just as cold tenperature is unsupportive towards the multiplication of bacteria, while warm temperature is supportive, the conditions on Earth could've been supportive towards the chemical reactions that led to proliferation of life on Earth as we know it.

      While it may seem like "experimentation of an intelligent creator", it could just be you seeing patterns, and "cherry picking facts" to support your point of view - in your comment above, I see the opposite, as in, the facts you've stated above are not enough to support the existence of a "God".

      Until such time comes that the evidence is sufficient enough to point towards an intelligent creator, I will have to respectfully disagree with your assessment.

      If that God exists, how do you know if he cares about your belief in him, and that it is "strategically advantageous"?
      Maybe he just cares about things such as your actions, rendering your belief in him/her/it superfluous?

      It's still an assumption, as I don't see definite proof that God exists in your comment above.

      It is an interesting hypothesis, but I'll leave it at that. If the facts you've stated above do point towards a "God", it follows, then, that, if the scientists and researchers follow that "trail", they'll eventually stumble on definite proof of a "God", therefore, my current religiosity doesn't matter, as, if I should, in the near/far future find the proof definite and unmistakably correct, then and only then, will I change my mind.

      Until then, I'll stick with what I consider to be "correct", as it has, thus far, served me the best and gotten me the best results. :)

      Delete
    10. "If that God exists, how do you know if he cares about your belief in him, and that it is "strategically advantageous"?
      Maybe he just cares about things such as your actions, rendering your belief in him/her/it superfluous?"

      The only way to know any of this for sure is if God proves it to you. Just ask Him sincerely for guidance and direction and He will not leave you confused or ignorant. It obviously makes no sense whatsoever for God to judge anyone without making His existence and His rulings clear to the person first. People have a low opinion of God and it's often the fault of the seemingly "pious" who, in their ignorance, say about God and what He demands what they have no right to say.

      Delete
  11. هل تبحث عن شركة متخصصة فى مكافحة الحشرات نحن نقدم لكم افضل شركة مكافحة حشرات فى الدمام كما انه تقدم خدمة متميزة ايضا وهى تنظيف المنازل والمجالس والفلل والقصور وسبب تقديم هذه الخدم انه تهتم بالاناقة والمنظر الخلاب والصحة العامة خدمات شركتنا كاتالى شركة مكافحة حشرات بالدمام
    شركة تنظيف بالدمام
    شركة تنظيف مجالس بالدمام

    ReplyDelete
  12. We've all been through these and many times they can leave us confused, wondering what happened and blaming ourselves.

    This is why placing our self-worth and love for others can never work out long term.

    Here's how to handle a tough break-up

    for get best meditation tutorial of youtube channel Resist Average Academy meditation for Beginners

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hey, M.E.!!!

    :)

    I wish I could stay longer, but I have a lot to do...

    :(

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  14. Donald Trump is a narcissistic sociopath, not that there's anything wrong with that. Look at the election results. What stigma?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Socia-

      I just saw a "Donald Trump Chia Head" commercial, before seeing your above comment.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  15. Song of the Day:

    Trans-Siberian Orchestra

    ChristmasEveSarajevo

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  16. My ex-boyfriend is back after a breakup, I’m extremely happy that we are living together again. I' m Mary from England, My boyfriend of 4yr broke up with me and am 30 weeks pregnant. I have cried my self to sleep most of the nights and don’t seem to concentrate during lectures sometimes I stay awake almost all night thinking about him and start to cry all over again.Because of this I end up not having energy for my next day’s classes ,my attendance has dropped and am always in uni and on time. Generally he is a very nice guy ,he ended it because he said we were arguing a lot and not getting along.He is right we’ve been arguing during the pregnancy a lot .After the break up I kept ringing him and telling him I will change.I am in love with this guy and he is the best guy I have ever been with.I’m still hurt and in disbelief when he said he didn’t have any romantic feelings towards me anymore that hurt me faster than a lethal syringe.He texts me now and then mainly to check up on how am doing with the pregnancy,he is supportive with it but it’s not fair on me, him texting me as I just want to grieve the pain and not have any stress due to the pregnancy.i was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Unity can help get ex back fast. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a spell for me. 28 hours later, my bf came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my bf are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Unity. If you have any problem contact Dr.Unity now and i guarantee you that he will help you. Here’s his contact. Email him at: Unityspelltemple@gmail.com ,you can also call him or add him on Whats-app: +2348071622464 ,His website: http://unityspelltemple.yolasite.com .

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hey, M.E.!!!

    I doubt you went to the German Christmas Markets when you were out of the country like I inquired about, but if you did, I'm glad you came back before a truck was driving into them...

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, M.E.!!!

      PS-Your "Not A Wolf" retweet was HILARIOUS!!!

      HA!!! LOL!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  18. now you see what i see

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But can you see what I see.

      Delete
    2. a fortune cookie?

      Delete
    3. you know i had to go there

      Delete
    4. do you think it is a fortune cookie?

      Delete
    5. do i make you smile?

      Delete
  19. I'm listening to "Barenaked Ladies"...

    :)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ...and "Hallelujah", by Pentatonix...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Hey SE...

      I'm listening to Barenaked Ladies and Sarah McLachlan again, right now...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey SE...

      I wonder if M.E. is with Santa, right now???

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. Hey SE...

      PS-Yes, "The Leg Lamp", is in the movie "A Christmas Story"...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    5. Hey... Vegas...

      Don't you love Christmas???

      So many boozes!!! So many foods!!!
      ALL FREE!!!

      :)

      Delete
    6. Hey... Vegas...

      PS

      I think we'll hear about it...

      :)

      Delete
    7. Hey... Vegas...

      PPS

      I wonder if Santa would be uncomfortable...

      :)

      Delete
    8. Hey...SE...

      I do love Christmas, and have been enjoying my free booze and food...

      :)

      My mom even made my favorite German dish and dessert...

      :):)

      I think we'll hear about M.E. and Santa, too...

      :):):)

      If she did visit Santa, I wonder what she told him, she wants for Christmas???

      :):):):)

      What do you want for Christmas???

      :):):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    9. Hey...SE...

      PS-I think Santa would either be uncomfortable, or too excited...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    10. Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays, Sociopath World!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    11. Hey - Vegas!!!

      I also do love Christmas, and I also have been enjoying my free food and booze...

      :)

      That's awesome!!! Bon apetit!!!

      :):)

      Yeah...

      :):):)

      I wonder, if she met him, if he told her what he wants for Christmas...

      :):):):)

      For Christmas, I want...

      Free booze and free food!!!

      :):):):):)

      What do you want for Christmas???

      :):):):):):)

      Delete
    12. Hey - Vegas!!!

      PS

      I wonder if Santa would either be uncomfortable, or too excited, or frustrated...

      :)

      Delete
    13. Hey - SE!!!

      "That's awesome!!! Bon apetit!!!"

      It's funny you said that, because I watched the movie "Julie & Julia" again while I was wrapping presents, and they say that a lot in that movie...

      :)

      I wonder if M.E. went to visit Santa, if he told her, what he wanted for Christmas...

      :):)

      "For Christmas, I want...

      Free booze and free food!!!"

      I hope you got A LOT OF FREE BOOZE AND FREE FOOD!!!

      :):):)

      Is that all you wanted for Christmas???

      :):):):)

      I didn't get what I wanted for Christmas...

      :(

      I think Santa kept what I wanted, for himself...

      :(:(

      I bet Santa started out uncomfortable, then became excited, then became frustrated, and then...

      :):):):):)

      I didn't forget to include a song-I just decided to give everyone a break, at least for a moment...

      :):):):):):)

      Thank you, for the song!!!

      :):):):):):):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    14. Hey - SE!!!

      PS-Maybe I'll get what I want for Christmas, next year...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    15. Santa!!!

      I just checked it out, and I like your link.:)

      How do I stay off your "Naughty List"???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  20. things are about to get real...


    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/812673705134460929

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Damaged-

      You said Cuba wouldn't be any fun, until Fidel was gone...

      Now that he's gone, are you going to Cuba???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. I'm going to live in Hemmingway's old place with all of the cats! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Delete
    3. Psst. Hey!

      You looking for cats?

      Wanna buy a cat?

      I am overrun by fucking cats.

      Delete
    4. "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed" -Ernest Hemingway

      Delete
  21. Frustration can be awesome.

    ReplyDelete
  22. George Michael passed away...

    :(

    RIP...

    Freedom

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. PS-

      I saw him perform live-he was an EXCELLENT PERFORMER, and it was an AWESOME SHOW!!!

      I'm glad, that I got to see him...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. PPS-

      You know you "made it", when you can have THAT MANY HOT SUPERMODELS, in one of your videos!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Yes, because everyone knows that the presence of supermodels is a sure gauge of talent.

      It's amazing what gloryholes and underfed egomaniacal narcissists can accomplish when you throw in some smack for good measure.

      Delete
  23. Here are the lyrics:

    I won't let you down;
    I will not give you up.
    Gotta have some faith in the sound;
    It's the one good thing that I've got.
    I won't let you down,
    So please don't give me up,
    Because I would really, really, love to stick around.
    Heaven knows I was just a young boy,
    Didn't know what I wanted to be.
    I was every little hungry schoolgirl's pride and joy,
    And I guess it was enough for me.
    To win the race? A prettier face!
    Brand new clothes and a big fat place;
    On your rock and roll TV.
    But, today, the way I play the game is not the same;
    No way.
    Think I'm gonna get myself happy.
    I think there's something you should know.
    I think it's time I told you so.
    There's something deep inside of me.
    There's someone else I've got to be.
    Take back your picture in a frame.
    Take back your singing in the rain.
    I just hope you understand.
    Sometimes the clothes do not make the man.
    All we have to do, now,
    Is take these lies and make them true somehow.
    All we have to see
    Is that I don't belong to you,
    And you don't belong to me.
    Freedom;
    You've gotta give for what you take.
    Freedom;
    You've gotta give for what you take.
    Heaven knows we sure had some fun, boy.
    What a kick, just a buddy and me.
    We had every big shot, good-time, band on the run, boy.
    We were living in a fantasy.
    We won the race.
    Got out of the place.
    I went back home, got a brand new face
    For the boys on MTV,
    But today the way I play the game has got to change.
    Oh, yeah.
    Now I'm gonna get myself happy.
    I think there's something you should know.
    I think it's time I stopped the show.
    There's something deep inside of me.
    There's someone I forgot to be.
    Take back your picture in a frame.
    Don't think that I'll be back again.
    I just hope you understand .
    Sometimes the clothes do not make the man.
    All we have to do, now,
    Is take these lies and make them true somehow.
    All we have to see
    Is that I don't belong to you,
    And you don't belong to me.
    Freedom;
    You've gotta give for what you take.
    Freedom;
    You've gotta give for what you take.
    Well it looks like the road to heaven,
    But it feels like the road to hell.
    When I knew which side my bread was buttered
    I took the knife as well.
    Posing for another picture.
    Everybody's got to sell,
    But when you shake your ass
    They notice fast,
    And some mistakes were built to last.
    That's what you get,
    I say, that's what you get.
    That's what you get for changing your mind,
    And after all this time
    I just hope you understand,
    Sometimes the clothes
    Do not make the man.
    I'll hold on to my freedom.
    May not be what you want from me.
    Just the way it's got to be.
    Lose the face now.
    I've got to live

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hey, M.E.!!!

    :)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  25. I'm so bored with life

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Adam-

      I loved those-thanks for sharing them.:)

      George Michael is on my mind...

      Are you familiar with his song "Father Figure"???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  26. My broken relationship has been restored by Dr.Unity the best spell caster online that is powerful and genuine. My boyfriend of 4yr broke up with me i have cried my self to sleep most of the nights and don’t seem to concentrate during lectures, sometimes I stay awake almost all night thinking about him and start to cry all over again.Because of this I end up not having energy for my next day’s classes ,my attendance has dropped. Generally he is a very nice guy ,he ended it because he said we were arguing a lot and not getting along.He is right we’ve been arguing during the pregnancy a lot .After the break up I kept ringing him and telling him I will change.I am in love with this guy and he is the best guy I have ever been with.I’m still hurt and in disbelief when he said he didn’t have any romantic feelings towards me anymore that hurt me faster than a lethal syringe.He texts me now and then mainly to check up on how am doing with the pregnancy,he is supportive with it but it’s not fair on me, him texting me as I just want to grieve the pain and not have any stress due to the pregnancy.i was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Unity can help get ex back fast. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a spell for me. 28 hours later, my bf came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my bf are living together happily again..All thanks to Dr Unity. If you have any problem contact Dr.Unity now and i guarantee you that he will help you. Here’s his contact.Email him at: Unityspelltemple@gmail.com ,you can also call him or add him on Whats-app: +2348071622464 , His website: http://unityspelltemple.yolasite.com .Thank you so much for reading Sonia Williams from England.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hey, M.E.!!!

    I'm missing your funny tweets...

    :(

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please, please, please???

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Do you enjoy begging?

      Delete
    3. Do you enjoy it, when people beg?

      Delete
    4. I enjoy it, when you beg.

      Delete
    5. I know you do. How much do you enjoy it?

      Delete
  28. Hey-SE!!!

    Are you out there???

    :)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey—Vegas!!!

      Hello.

      :)

      Delete
    2. Hey-SE!!!

      Hello.

      :)

      I only have a moment, but wanted to say "Hello"...

      :):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Hey-SE!!!

      PS-"Cute Starbucks Guy" just gave me FREE "WINNING COFFEE"!!!

      Today, is a good day...

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. Hey -- Vegas!!!

      I just drank some booze...

      :)

      Delete
    5. Hey -- SE!!!

      I just drank A LOT OF BOOZE!!!

      :)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    6. What did you drink, exactly, and how much of it did you consume?

      Delete
    7. "I drink to make other people more interesting."

      -Ernest Hemingway

      Delete
    8. Hey -- SE!!!

      I drank Crown Royal & Diet Cokes, to my heart's content...

      :)

      I lost track, but could probably remember the count, if I tried...

      :):)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    9. Hey -- SE!!!

      I didn't really eat today, either...

      I went to a wedding...

      The Matron of Honor told me how beautiful I looked...

      Usually, I just accept the compliment...

      Today, I told her how I "threw myself together", at the last minute...

      She look surprised, and said I didn't appear that way...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    10. Try to remember the count. I'm curious.

      Why did you tell her that you threw yourself together at the last minute? That wouldn't be characteristic for a woman like you, who takes such care to present herself in a comely and attractive manner.

      Did you want to impress her?

      Or are you trying to impress me, by hinting at how effortlessly and naturally hot you are?
      ;)


      Delete

  29. i want to thank Dr ALuta for bringing back my Ex, we broke up for more than 9 month and Ex told me that he will never want to see me in his life again. i love her so much to the extend that i could not do any thing again, i was confused and depress due to the love i had for my her. i did everything i could do to have her come back to me but all went in vain. so i decided to contact a spell caster, i did not believe in spell casting i just want to try it may be it would work out for me. i contacted dr Aluta for help he told me that he have to cast a love spell on her, after 5 days my EX Girlfriend called me and started to apologize for leaving me and also she told me that she still love me. i was very happy and i thank dr aluta for helping get back my EX. Dr Aluta his spell is the the greatest all over the world, it was the love spell he cast on my ex that make her come back to me. i will want the world to contact him if you need any help reach him on his email traditionalspellhospital@gmail.com i will want the world to contact him if you need any help here.(1) If you want back your EX Husband or Wife or divorce partner. If you also need a lottery spell he can help with that and even cure different kind of disease. you an reach him on his email traditionalspellhospital@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hey, M.E.!!!

    I just heard Coldplay's "Adventure of a Lifetime", and thought...

    Umi, turn your magic on
    She said

    Where's the "funny tweets"???

    :)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, M.E.!!!

      I'm having "funny tweet withdrawal"...

      :(

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Hey, Vegas!!!

      Maybe, she's having "creepy stalker withdrawal". You haven't been as active, lately.

      Why is that, I wonder?

      Perhaps, if you beg some more, she'll give in to your winsome whining.

      :D


      Delete
  31. You haven't forgotten me?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am gross and perverted
      I'm obsessed 'n deranged

      I have existed for years
      But very little has changed

      I may be vile and pernicious
      But you can't look away

      I make you think I'm delicious
      With the stuff that I say

      I'm the best you can get

      Have you guessed me yet?

      Delete
    2. What do you think?

      Delete
    3. You keep saying it.

      Delete
    4. What?

      When?

      How?

      Delete
    5. Remember: sharing is caring!!!!!!!

      :)

      Delete
    6. Do you really think that?

      Delete
    7. If you really think that, I'll go.

      Delete
    8. That's boring.

      I want to play with someone clever.

      Are you clever, anonymous?

      Delete
    9. And if so, what do you think I think about that?

      Delete
  32. Hi M.E.

    I read your post from a few years back on obsessiveness and compulsiveness.

    Has therapy helped you through your compulsions? Or do you experience them any differently now?

    Do others experience obsessiveness or compulsiveness? **-* recognises his obsessions and seems to hedge himself from their kicking off. He seems it hard to derail obsessive trains of thought.

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  33. A fortune cookie.

    ReplyDelete
  34. "it must be true cause it's a quote" - me

    ReplyDelete
  35. I noticed there's a mindset now that there is no good people left and everyone is cut throat and out for themselves. This mindset has become widespread because of Donald Trump. It's a very toxic way to see the world and the worst people follow these ideals. It's easy to say everyone is a selfish person when that's what YOU are. It's harder to admit that there are better more moral people than yourself. Everyone wants to be a little Donald Trump calling the shots, but the most charming thing is to be yourself to the full.

    ReplyDelete
  36. http://nhlwinterclassic2017.us/
    http://nhlwinterclassic2017.us/
    http://nhlwinterclassic2017.us/

    ReplyDelete
  37. Song of the Day:

    George Michael

    PrayingForTime

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete

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