Sunday, September 29, 2013

Famous sociopaths: Wernher von Braun

Nazi or opportunist? A reader sent me this video on top rocket scientist Wernher von Braun, widely credited for getting the U.S. to the moon, but at what cost? The reader writes:

skip to 1:29 in --

Charming, clever guy who did what it took to make his dream comes true.  A bit like Steve Jobs.

The video has a charming impression from one of von Braun's contemporaries about what his personality was like: "Here was the man who had created those bombs. He attacked my house. I was not a friend of his. Right from the start I had to resist becoming a close friend of his because he was charming. He could charm the pants off anyone and he was a very clever man. You knew that right away. I had tremendous arguments with him because he maintained that he was only a scientist, that he was not a Nazi and I said, 'That's nonsense, you belonged to the Nazi party.'" Apparently President Eisenhower was one of the few that did not succumb to von Braun's charms, but that did not stop von Braun from manipulating the U.S. Congress to fully fund his space/moon pursuits by preying on the public's fears of the Russian threat.

Chameleon, liar, non-political opportunist? Either way, it's an interesting example of someone who was able to navigate the politics, the mob sentiment (both Nazi Germany and the cold war) and manage to manipulate people who could not understand the importance of his work by using that age old tactic -- playing upon peoples' fears.

If he was a sociopath, would he qualify as a "good" or a "evil" one?


  1. I'm the "goofy" empath from yesterday who wrote about the 4
    I'll confess to being a lousy speller. And I suck at grammer. But so what?
    Why is it that people reject information out of hand without investigating
    it themselves? Would it detract much from your day just to take a few
    moments to check out the sites? Why must the previor of information
    be "socially acceptable?" If a bum tells you the sky is blue are you going
    to reject the premise just because a bum told you so? All you need do
    is encline your eyes skyward and see for yourself.
    The trouble with people is they get so taken in with appearences.
    That's why we end up with "empty suits" for leaders and even
    "sugnificant others."
    Take John Edwards for example. What was more important? The fact
    that he was an attractive wealthy man, or the "dirt" he did to his dying
    wife? He came within a hairswith of being president. Could we rely on
    the media to tell the truth about him? Nope. We needed The National
    Enquirer. Pretty package, sweet little liar. What about his poor wife?
    She tore off her brasser at the airport and exposed her terminally
    diseased breasts to him, and cried, "I did it all for you! See how you
    treated me!"
    Now, one of the orginazations I reccomended, The New Life
    foundation would say to Elizabeth: "Yes dear. but you brought it upon
    yourself. You should haven known who you were marrying. If you didn't marry this empty suit to begin with, you wouldn't be in your
    present predicament."
    People don't pay attention. They don't observeThey live their lives on
    Years before, when Elizabeth first saw John, she must have thought:
    "Oh, what a catch! His wealthy, good looking, he'd make a good father
    Who could ask for more?" She didn't see the real John. She saw her
    idealized image of John. Her ill informed decision to marry such a man brought her to where she was. Cause and affect.
    I would never reject a claim out of hand regardless of how the
    "package" making the claim appeared to me. I would investigate and
    try to uncover the truth of the matter myself. It's the charming
    "slicksters" that one should worry about. Not necessasarly the
    wretched uglies making the claim.
    To refuse to investigate is to purposfully close the door on a possible
    escape route. And condemn yourself to a life a misery. Jesus Christ
    was by no means a "pretty package." And it was for this reason
    among others. that He underwent a horrible death. I'll bet that Satan
    himself does not resemble the common depiction of a hideious beast
    with two horns, a tail and a pitchfork.
    I reiterate, that the only reason I tell you of these 4 orginazations is
    out of LOVE. Of what benefit would it be to me to see MORE human
    wrekage? My only consern is in trying to elivate the world one person
    at a time. Then we won't have to worry about who the "empaths" are,
    who the "sociopaths" are and why they do such hurtful things to each

    1. Hi. I appreciate you listing those organizations and i will google them. Thank you.

      Regarding Elizabeth Edwards, check this out !

    2. not rejecting anything out of hand- simply pointing out that your presentation implies arrogance- which is off putting. Nobody has the time to randomly investigate four organizations simply because an anonymous person on the internet told them to. If you are the sort who would, I'd love to introduce you to my friend, the crown prince of Nigeria, who has a "special investment opportunity" just for you...

      Want to "save" sociopaths? Frankly I am not sure anyone can do that, but my hunch is that respectfully meeting them through logic, not outlandish claims/advertisements for organizations you don't have the courage to suggest via a moniker other than "anonymous". Sociopaths don't tend to be prime targets for cults, so it's best that you refine your methods when seeking new acolytes...

    3. Mach, chill. You take the fear approach.You must trust that in this world there will be people who drink the koolaid and people who taste it.

      The readers here (hopefully) are tasters. They can see what speaks to them, take sthg as a grain of salt or try stuff then abandon it.

      YOu are going to have to do this letting go one day with your 4 babies.

      And if sociopathy is on a spectrum then there will be people who are searching, not settling

      Who gives a fuck where you get your info from anyway? So what it info comes from a religious fanatic? or cult member/leader? You take some you leaver some.

      Besides you said it! what sociopath is going to follow a cult leader? LOL

      You exaggerate when you say this poster wants to save. . THe poster is just enthusiastic, excited and wants to share info. What';the harm in picking up a pamphlet?

    4. well you are certainly right about having to let go of things... and my babies.

      I do think people have every right to proselytize (you are correct- save was an overstatement) just as I have every right to roll my eyes. You misread my intention when you attribute my distaste for the communication style as fear based- especially if you think I am trying to "protect" sociopaths from the awesomeness of these 4 amazing ideas... pretty sure people can think for themselves, especially on this forum.

      I just find preaching from a source that doesn't even attach an identity to their comments to be futile at best and irritating at worst. But of course, that's my hang up, not everyone else's, so I appreciate your gentle correction on my not terribly tolerant expression of distaste for the manner in which this poster expresses him/herself. My bad. :)

    5. Mach i would like to ask you questions regarding me ex but i do not have time right now. It is about what you just said..rolling your eyes.

      I am 11:16 ANONYMOUS

    6. not sure I have any answers but sure... I am a big believer in there being 2 sides to every story and not getting hung up on assigning blame when things end. Why? because it keeps people stuck making the same mistakes if they have to keep justifying their own behavior so they feel the breakup wasn't their own fault. Sometimes things have simply run their course, and that's ok too.

    7. no i was not clear.

      i mean the act of rolling the eyes. I was going to ask you about my ex But maybe i want to ask about me

      He acted in front of me. He demonstrated to me, as if showing me how a pro does it. we were out at an event which was god awful. seriously, we were not being snobby at all . it sucked.

      after we left, outside bumped into people who had worked on it. total strangers we would never ever see again. Kids. He stopped to go on about how good it was... this was directly after we just discussed how bad it was. He did it sadistically inside himself.

      I wanted to punch him after he did that. it was for me that he did that. he wanted me to see what a good actor he was. he liked that i chided him. when i did, he said "ooooohhh they don't know" because it's true that they would never ever find out that he was fucking with them. But he wanted me to know what a great actor he was. He wanted me in on it that he fucked with people. I felt he was showing off.and wanted me to look at him with wonderment. is that narcissistic or sociopathic?

      I dont think i caught him rolling eyes in front of people though. He didn't really do that. He was super interested in all people (well, women mostly) and asked lots of questions almost ocd like.

      Me, I roll my eyes but usually only in my head unless i am with someone who has my thoughts. But i think everyone does that.
      WHen i hear you talk about your eyes rolling at the poster , i understand it as what i do.

      My mother, when we were growing up, she did not even bother to hide her thoughts. She outright criticized everything and everyone to their face. She has no friends. I had to lecturer her at a very young age how it was not nice to make those remarks outloud. She thinks she is better than everyone. It's disgusting. I do not always think i am better than people,.I think the reverse more often . But am annoyed i have to show up and pretend all the time that i care about things when in all honesty i do not. I am eye rolling and want to get the fuck out of being where i am a lot. People think i am the sweetest thing, but i am tired of putting smiles on. -I also have depression and feel removed and do not care about being where i am so maybe i just confusing all that with acting "happy"

      What is the difference between me and my mother? I eye roll inside myself and shes just a nasty judgmental cunt. I have patience and i find things very interesting. i do my very best not to judge,. when i feel myself judging i stop myself . I even go overboard sometimes.

      But I do think all the time what will people think of me so i thought this is narcissism. Isn't it? If so, what is the difference between me and my mother?

    8. I know you cannot answer. Nobody has real answers. I keep having to look at my mother to see wtf. I am certain she is not a regular narcissist. SHe has way, way too many NPD traits. I cannot even believe there is a label for her. I think i hated her so much all the time that if i see any of her in me, i reject that part of me and hate me But i am not NPD. I have some narcissism thats' all . It isn't a tragedy. The only reason i hate me is that i see her in me and i hate her. It makes too much sense for me to be upset abt it or blame me.. It isn't so bad to want to get love from outside sources. srsly, where else would i get it from if i didn't have it inside? Everyone needs a source of love.

      Why don't the therapists tell you there is something wrong with you that they cant fix? What are they afraid of? I was never suicidal.

      Thank you for being here.

  2. I don't think qualifying him as good or evil is appropriate.
    There is fluidity to everyone's perception of what constitutes that qualification.
    He pursued his dreams and the results of that pursuit are what define him.
    After all it is the winners who write history.
    And he managed to win almost every time.

    1. As yours the only on-topic and non-nutty fruit cake comment on this thread, I'll reply to you.

      I am inclined to agree with you. If the Soviets had won the cold war, no doubt von Braun would be villified more than praised. It also depends on which perspective you're looking at it from. Technologically and scientifically, he was brilliant since he single-handedly facilitated many advances and discoveries. But of course from a western 21st century ethical standpoint he doesn't look very impressive, having helped the Nazis build bigger and more destructive bombs to kill people. Having said that, he was probably greatly admired for that very thing by Germans living under the Nazi regime so it's all about your unique perspective shaped by when and where you happen to live and your own interests and outlook on the world.

  3. "You do not generate your own thoughts, that's why you can't control them."

    I think instincts and the reptilian brain control our feelings which then try to control our thoughts..

  4. I am gonna bookmark this page, thanks for info. I actually appreciate your own position and I will be sure to come back here. |


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