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Friday, October 9, 2009

Do sociopaths have high IQs?

A reader asks:

"do you happen to know if sociopaths are typically of extremely high i.q.? from what i've seen from personal experience and posts on your site, most individuals who fit the classification appear to be at least above average in intelligence. is this an accurate observation?"

My response:
I think that sociopaths would typically score high(er) on IQ tests, but I don't know if that would necessarily mean that they are of above average intelligence. Sociopaths are extremely capable of finding the weaknesses in things, people, the social fabric, etc., like a shark sniffing blood or a dog "smelling" fear.

Let's take for example the fact that I have always performed very well on standardized tests. I will readily admit that doesn't necessarily make me "intelligent." Rather, when I read a question, I am not always looking for answers, or even clues to the answers, but rather clues into the test maker's mind. Are they trying to trick me? I think, if I were a test maker, how many different ways could I ask a question on a critical issue? There will always be a limited number of ways that test makers can/will ask questions--you just have to figure out which, and then recognize those particular questions when you see them. I also try to guess what would be the fake answers test makers might come up with. Test makers have fears like everyone else has fears -- fears that a question will be too easy, fears that a question may have more than one answer or be ambiguous. You can practically see a test taker's CYA precautions in some of the questions you read. You know immediately what the answer is, just like when you ask someone, "Where's the safe?" and they say "I don't know," but their eyes look to the wall behind the desk. Obviously the safe is in the wall behind the desk.

Is this ability to sense weakness what intelligence is? I wouldn't think so. Standardized IQ tests don't necessarily test intelligence, they just test someone's ability to correctly mark the right answer -- they don't account for how you managed to choose that right answer. Take the extreme example: you obtained all the answers ahead of time (cheated). Your score indicates a very high IQ. Does that mean you are intelligent? What if, instead of "cheating," you are a mind reader and get the answers that way? What if you are just very good at predicting what answer test makers think is "right"? Does that mean you are intelligent?

But I do think most sociopaths seem intelligent, particularly to empaths. They have different blindspots than you do, and they think out of the box because they aren't in a box, or at least not the same box you are. Have you ever heard a child speak a foreign language? Maybe for a moment you are amazed. "Good lord! That child's speaking Swahili!" But you are amazed because you are framing the issue in terms of how difficult it would be for you to be speaking Swahili, particularly at that child's age. Your mind has forgotten that some people grow up speaking Swahili as their native language, or in bilingual homes. So the sociopath can amaze the empath with his charm, wit, and intelligence, just because that is the sociopath's "native language," so to speak.

But are sociopaths perceived as being above average, charming, witty, and intelligent? Yes, most of us manage to come off that way. And life is almost always form over substance, rarely the other way around.

83 comments:

  1. If every other sociopathic trait varies along a spectrum, so doesn't intelligence?

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  2. I do like how you guys use "big" words though, meaning ME and the commenters. I come here for a daily vocabulary lesson from Daniel et al.

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    1. We Just Grew Up Around A ParticularEnvironment, Or As The Saying"We Are TheProduct Of Our Environment.

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    2. It's interesting find someone who enjoys people who use a large vocabulary. I often try to engage in online discussion, and I tend to use diction that is perceived as "too large." I've always focused heavily on bettering my vocabulary, so ultimately I use words that come naturally. In fact, I try to keep it on the mild side - I'm not using words like "sagacious," "ersatz," and "pecuniary" on a regular basis, although I am aware of them. Any time an online discussion veers anywhere near controversial, people begin attempting to find ad hominem arguments, so often I appear overtly pedantic because people say things like, "look at this guy use big words he learned on TV last week." It's peculiar, because I wonder if people are just trying to find the most obvious insult (haha, look at this guy try to be smart; being smart is terrible!) or if they truly feel insulted by a vocabulary that I consider to be quite average.

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    3. Can I just applaud you on a thoughtful, well written comment with proper grammar? Those are so hard to come by these days. :)
      I completely agree with the point you made. I also enjoy learning new words and using them once I understand their meaning. In my opinion, there is no better feeling than being able to acquire new knowledge and use it correctly. I look at English, my native language, the same way I do other languages that I am learning. The more vocabulary you are armed with, the better you can accurately convey what you mean to say. The same should go for the language(s) you were brought up to speak.
      It is a real shame that some people don't seek to further their own vocabulary, if only to make better arguments.

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  3. I wonder if your test taking strategy woulf work for an exam in say, genetics. What about subjects that require you to actually demonstrate knowledge and comprehension. Could you do it?

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  6. That wasn't my point. If you actually had to figure a problem out as occurs in most college courses, could you do it? Anyone can figure out multiple choice, that's elementary almost.

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  7. Oh, and where's the proof you folk "test well"!?? Sounds like a claim that can't be backed up.

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    1. Im sure there are proof. Just to help I am a sociopath graduated at 16 with a 140 iq inlisted in military asvab score 93. Not as high as sum but higher than most.

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  8. And I'm not talking about scoring high on the DSM.

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  9. Insane- please note what varies along a spectrum means.

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  11. p.s. said...
    Oh, and where's the proof you folk "test well"!?? Sounds like a claim that can't be backed up.

    well wheres the proof that they dont test well?

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  12. Anon, I'm not the one who made the claim. I'm just asking for references for the comment. Is that ok with you?

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  13. I don't think the way you take tests has anything to do with being a sociopath. It's rudimentary problem solving. If you don't know the answer, solve the problem any way you can. Any rational thinker would resort to the methods you described, and 9/10 it would work.

    I think the main reason sociopaths appear intelligent is their nasty habit of outmaneuvering you, either by setting you up or blinding you to the fact that someone else (maybe even you) did all the work. All the sociopath did was get you either thinking or working.

    That's certainly a remarkable skill, but as M.E. points out it doesn't equal intelligence. I'd equate it to an idiot savant who can fix any mechanical device without a problem, but can't do much else worth a shit. Social manipulation is their special talent, and riding on the backs of those they manipulate, a sociopath can accomplish quite a bit.

    That's not to say sociopaths have no other skills, just that I really doubt they have many other useful "specialties."

    Anyone care to comment on that? Maybe with an example to the contrary?

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    1. I was married to a sociopath, and also engaged to one at one point -- I apparently have a "type". I can definitely state that in the two cases I dealt with on a very near and intimate level - the statement of idiot savant is about the best description I've seen. I described them as "really dumb smart people". They could each test over 150 on IQ, were identified very young as academically gifted, and used that to get out of a lot of work. However, neither could function in society with simple things - like paying bills, common sense, forethought, planning, delayed gratification. They basically never "grew up" though they were both massively intelligent. Both did well in academia until they encountered those that could actually take them on, then crumbled (the narcissism w/ low self esteem). Regular jobs were out of the realm of possibility -- attendance issues and the structure was just too much. Both eventually turned to drugs, and the masks disappeared. The person behind the mask was scary -- the facade was gone, and only the bad parts remained -- angry when they couldn't manipulate the situations, but unable to control themselves well enough to control others.

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    2. mental toughness is necessary as a sociopath.

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    3. I feel as a sociopath i need to intervene, some comments are extremely irritating the 'idiot savant' remark, did einsteien not say never judge a fish's ability to climb a tree because it will forever believe is stupid, i believe intelligence is to do with memory. Being able to remember what you're taught in as short as time as possible, i've a relativly high IQ but i feel you can be stupid no matter what you are. Also the peon who said the 'stupid ones are criminals' i think that statement is quite frankly an abomination of an idea, as they have no other way to learn, they have disassociated their entire lives. They rebel as any child would for example your child bullies and there are safeguards to protect the other children does that mean your childs an idiot for getting caught........ No it means they are leaning what to do, people have survival instinct an idiocracy mixed up

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  14. mr.insane said...even if a sociopath didn't know much about genetics...they are good at reading the people around them, I'm sure they could charm you into thinking they know a ton of shit we don't actually know.

    peter pan said...social manipulation is their special talent, and riding on the backs of those they manipulate, a sociopath can accomplish quite a bit.


    THOSE TWO DISCRIPTIONS SOUND SIMILAR...

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  15. Anonymous said...
    "THOSE TWO DISCRIPTIONS SOUND SIMILAR..."

    Nobody said...
    "I AM A FUCKING DUMBASS..."

    Yeah, that seems to be happening a lot lately. See the above for a great example.

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  16. I've known and know a lot of people on the 'spectrum' of socioipathy, a few pr'obably well up at the extreme level. I doubt they are more intelligent on average, it's rather a case of the intelligent ones get more attention - whether in media, or from psychologists.
    Other things I disagree with ME about include the glamour he attaches to the condition..although this is understandable since he perceives himself as a sociopath and obviously wants to be glamourous. Another facet is the 'bravery' he attaches to them. Typically psychopaths are not fearless at all..in fact for one example special forces go to a lot of trouble in attempts to weed them out partly because they cannot be counted on. Sociopaths seek out the vulnerable for a reason..they like an easy target. Against a serious foe who is happy to play big boys games, a psychopath runs for his life.

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    1. Some maybe but I see things like that as a challenge. Do when it finds to big boy games as you say I don't run I analyze and dominate. If it comes to violence so be it. I don't like to feel below somebody and will find the chunk in their armor. I'm a diagnosed sociopath and you need to get that there are different types that use different skills some run some might surprise you. And an easy target is boring it's the challenge of a tough foe and taking them down I enjoy.

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    2. "All the sociopath did was get you either thinking or working."

      And that is all we need to do. Make friends with experts and farm out the thinking. Why expend the effort if you can simply call upon a trusted opinion, I have everything handled for me from technology, to politics, to science... even my tree work handled by someone else and it costs me nothing but charm.

      Is it intelligence? Who cares. I spend my afternoons doing whatever I want without restrictions and as far as I'm concerned that is all that matters.

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    3. I agree...they are not glamorous, and those that I know if are not attractive either. Their charm pushes their mediocre looks up the scale, but alas what goes up, must come down. Incidentally the females of this same lot are often times very large gals. I wonder what's up with that.

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    4. sorry.. those I know of (not if)

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  17. Sociopath/psychopath may be considered 'intelligent' relative to the choices some may make. But the notion that they're 'evil geniuses' seems largely the work of hollywood.

    If you know a well spoken and 'smart' family man who occasionally disappears for a few days to smoke crack with transsexual hookers. And he won't curtail this behavior despite the cost to his marriage and business . . . might be a 'sociopath'.

    Being a "moral imbecile" doesn't make you an imbecile. But it is no guarantee of intelligence as Mr. Insane clearly demonstrates.

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  18. "Against a serious foe who is happy to play big boys games, a psychopath runs for his life."

    Anonymous blowhard could not possible blow harder than this.

    I would imagine most people flee the company of a big boy like you.

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  19. Nobody is inherently intelligent. It's just that people pleasing victims make us look so damn smart, because they are so dumb.
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    MR INSANE
    "If you're talking about a "sprectrum disorder" then its a way to describe any form of disorder that isn't whole, but divided into groups or sections that rank the spectrum of severity.

    Or are you talking about something else?"
    -----------------------------------
    What the fuck is wrong with you??? You fucken moron. Are you retarded or are you 13 years old. I'm seriously wondering. He said varies along the spectrum. Nobody said spectrum disorder you dumb knob. Do us a favor and tie a bag around your head, submerge yourself in a bathtub, then drop a hair dryer in it. You and Sarah would make a good couple. You could blab on and on about stuff you know nothing about, and try to make it look like you have a shred of intelligence.

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    1. You say... "Nobody is inherently intelligent. It's just that people pleasing victims make us look so damn smart, because they are so dumb."

      Thats because a smart person would make you look dumb... But in reality those you label dumb are smart enough to carry you and make you look smart.. You're certainly not smart enough to carry them..

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  20. That's exactly the way that I used to pass tests. Even on the AP tests. The only reason I took AP classes in high school was because I knew I could ace the test, and I can always wing essay questions the same way. You BS what the question is looking for. It's just about knowing what people want, not knowing the material.

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  21. After reading a few of these comments, I think that before we can determine if sociopaths are more intelligent we have to agree on what intelligence is. For example, Peter Pan said sociopaths seem intelligent because they can out maneuver people. Does that not make them more intelligent than the maneuvere-ee? Does a sociopaths dedication to thought and rationale as well as application of that rationale make him more intelligent because other people no longer think, or know how to? Or is intelligence the ability to adapt?: Or just a problem solving skill when presented with clues?

    What is intelligence to you, Peter Pan? Being able to hold a conversation or acting in an intelligent way?

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  22. perhaps the definition will help:
    the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience
    a unit responsible for gathering and interpreting information about an enemy

    So intelligence is a sociopathic trait.

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  23. "to understand and profit from experience"

    This is were they (we?) supposedly run into trouble.

    ASPD folks who run afoul of the law typically make the same mistakes over and over . . .

    No real way to gauge how more 'well adapted' socios learn from experience. They might just be lucky.

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  24. "to understand and profit from experience"

    This is were they (we?) supposedly run into trouble.

    ASPD folks who run afoul of the law typically make the same mistakes over and over . . .

    No real way to gauge how more 'well adapted' socios learn from experience. They might just be lucky.

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  25. Well, my beautiful snowflake, I'd first say that it would take some intelligence to differentiate between the varying ideas a single word can reference, and their relevance (or lack thereof) within the same context.

    Definition 1: sociopaths by definition lack.
    Definition 2: is an entirely different animal.

    Are you actually trolling me? There's no need for us to fight, sexy.

    Kisses and hugs, for ever and ever,
    Your Pan.

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  26. I think that high intelligence makes one more sociopathic, but being a sociopath doesn't necessarily make one more intelligent.

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  27. Anon you are the only person who's commented that made sense. Congrats. In the land of the blind your one comment has made you king.

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  28. three cents said, "I come here for a daily vocabulary lesson from Daniel..."

    Awww. I find your remark to be quite splendiferous.

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  29. Jasnowflake said, “I think that before we can determine if sociopaths are more intelligent we have to agree on what intelligence is…”

    In my not so humble opinion, this is the right question. Limiting intelligence to IQ scores only is unnecessarily reductionistic and controversial to boot. There doesn’t appear to be a widespread consensus on the definition of intelligence. Kinda like this whole sociopath thing, come to think of it. Accordingly, it means different things to different people. At most, again like the term sociopath, intelligence is a kind of umbrella like adjective which covers a suite of traits and cognitive aptitudes. So naturally one could say that sociopaths are more intelligent than most. It all depends on which definition of intelligence is used and why.

    Having said that, I kinda find the comment posted by anon at 10:31 interesting. One could say that intelligence, combined with a reduced capacity for emotional attachments, might indeed predispose one to, if not sociopathology, then at the very least attitudes that might be considered sociopathic. Then again, does it really take a genius to figure out that being a slave to one’s conscience, a conscience molded and conditioned by a society which is itself thoroughly blind to its own origins, is absurd on one level and often the height of stupidity on another?

    And back to ME’s post, I agree. It’s really to appear smart if you know how people define smart, what cues they look for when they think they’re looking for intelligence and to act those cues out.

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  30. Sociopath focuses on social manipulation all his life. Obviously is very good at it.

    Man focuses on solving rubics cube all his life.
    Obviously is very good at it.

    Man focuses on playing guitar all his life.
    Obviously is very good at it.

    Cave man focuses on hunting deer all his life.
    Obviously is very good at it.

    What do these people have in common? Focus, not intelligence.
    Intelligence is just a bonus.

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  31. Peter Pan:

    "I think the main reason sociopaths appear intelligent is their nasty habit of outmaneuvering you, either by setting you up or blinding you to the fact that someone else (maybe even you) did all the work."
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    So are you saying someone stupid outmaneuvered you? So what would that make you? What point are you trying to make exactly?

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  32. Peter says

    I don't think the way you take tests has anything to do with being a sociopath. It's rudimentary problem solving.


    It is and it isn't. IQ tests are culturally biased to the point where the metrics can be useless. In prisons they studied people with APD and they scored very high on skills timed tests. But extremely low comparatively in other assays. The study was a long time ago and since new editions of the test try and compensate, but the results of the combined scores couldn't be calculated with an acceptable confidence interval.

    One conjecture would be that a sociopath, who isn't prone to 'nerves', was performing above average under the 'pressure' sections because the population used to 'normalize' it had a more nervous nature. So, if you accept this, the metrics provided didn't even measure intelligence, but rather 'performance under pressure'.

    Anyone care to comment on that? Maybe with an example to the contrary?

    Sorry. No specific contrary. I would just expand the generalization and say that a score on a test doesn't speak to anyone's true potential. Even if we could accurately measure all aspects of intelligence- doesn't mean that we are using it.

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  33. Sociopath focuses on social manipulation all his life. Obviously is very good at it.


    I can't believe I'm agreeing with you. But it is rather silly to give props to a group for being better at something they were born to be better at. (?)

    That's like praising empaths for being champions of empathy.

    The real challenge would be for the two to try and integrate skills not already in their genetic arsenal. Or to be better at it than their cohorts.

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  34. I would have to conclude that there is a full spectrum of all levels of intelegence. From Carl in Sling Blade to Obama! Sad!

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  35. Dumb Cunt Says:

    "Sorry. No specific contrary. I would just expand the generalization and say that a score on a test doesn't speak to anyone's true potential. "
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    Sarah is full of generalizations. Her own generalizations. Her own glorifications of the noble sociopath. I hate to tell you, but we don't give a shit about what you think you are, or how much you'll bend definitions to define your weak moralist, wanna be intellectual self. I have news for you. Your boring. That's why boys don't like you. Your boring and your ugly. Even if you were bare naked and with your legs spread on a desert island Gilligan wouldn't fuck you. Your not interesting. You get your 'facts' from Googling and Wikipedia mixed with your idealist theories based on generalizations. Shutup and don't come back on here you stupid bitch.

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    1. *You're boring
      *You're boring and you're ugly
      *You're not interesting

      ^ Talk about wannabe intellectual self.

      Also I would like to suggest that calling somebody who you've never seen before "ugly" probably wouldn't affect them, given that you can't possibly know whether what you're saying is true.

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  36. Sarah, read M.E.'s post, and then reread mine. I have no idea how this nonsense about IQ tests even entered the conversation. Yes, IQ tests are bullshit, no matter who you are or what your background is, but that's more than a little off topic.

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  37. "So are you saying someone stupid outmaneuvered you? So what would that make you? What point are you trying to make exactly?"

    Actually, yes, I've been outmaneuvered by a dumb shit.
    I've also outmaneuvered people much more intelligent than I am.

    What happens when you apply your idiotic logic to that?

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  38. Shows me you underestimate people, because your a idiot. Shows me that you overestimate people as well.
    Logic tells me that arguing logic with a fool would turn me into a greater one. Now go sprinkle some fairy dust on her arsehole and go fuck yourself you dirty tampon.

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  39. Lmfao. Ukan, I think you're the one who needs to get laid. Why are you so hostile and what's up w tampons? You like them in your ass???

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  40. I like them filling in the stab wounds you have in your leaking broken heart you dildo residue.

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  41. Since intelligence or the lack thereof is not a prerequiste of a sociopathic personality, there would be a range of I.Q.s just as in any group. However, if you define "intelligence" as an ability to "win" a contest, sociopaths are above average. They lack a conscience, they don't play by the rules, a sociopath is out to win, to get the right answer, to outsmart a victim, and to achieve this, they take shortcuts, they are willing to sacrifice people, cheat, lie, etc. They focus specifically on creating an image, but it's one with no depth. They want to appear smart, not be smart. Being "clever" is not the same as being intelligent. It's the intelligence of con artists, thieves, used car salesmen. Some are very good at it, they work hard on creating an image, but genuine learning is beyond the grasp of a sociopath. That entails a belief in a principle beyond self, an idea of knowledge itself being the reward, and sociopaths are too self-centered to adhere to such a principle. They're very superficial, their "intelligence" is crafted for one purpose. To get what they want at any cost and to make a normal person trust them. They enjoy outwitting people, in the same way a person running a three card Monty game enjoys taking your money. Does that make the crook smart? In a way. But it's a one trick pony. A con artist is a genius so long as he is playing with a cheating deck.

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  42. And never forget when dealing with a sociopath, you are dealing with a mentally disordered person. In listening to the reasoning of a sociopath, you are listening to THEIR perspective of how they see themselves and the world. It is a minority view and it is inconsistent with reality. A true sociopath has no conscience and this extends to every area of life. A sociopath is not just Ted Bundy, (something you have heard a million times). A sociopath is a liar, a bullsh&^tter, a con artist, a truly "fake" person playing a role. More often than not, their "intelligence" is superficial like them, without any true depth. They rely on manipulation and a large ego. There's little time for the acquisition of any real knowledge when you spend all your time learning to con people into believing you are something you aren't. There's no moral compass that guides them, even to the extent that they themselves are even a lie. A person without moral principles, who believes in nothing but self, who believes h/she is intelligent, and is willing to dao anything to get what they want, is a DANGEROUS person. Sociopaths are masters at deflecting responsibility, in a way that is almost childlike, yet they are manipulative and calculating with the mind of an adult. A sociopath is essentially a fully mature mind with the emotional development of a child. Incredibly dangerous. A child wants what it wants when it wants it and will stop at nothing to get it. Fortunately, children have parents and no real power. Sociopaths are like children in a candy store and they don't follow any rules. A sociopath has an intelligence that is criminal, they see normal people as weak and victims, and themselves as superior and clever. They haven't figured out anything spectacular, except that it's easier to win the game by cheating. They aren't in life to grow, learn, cultivate relationships, or love. They're in life to "win." To get as much for themselves as possible, by any means necessary. Whatever they desire varies from sociopath to sociopath, but generally it's going to be the most common basic selfish needs like money, sex, and power. They are all intertwined and they all feed into a need to dominate others (something that is a sign of a deep-seated, massive insecurity). To untangle the chords of why and the causes of something so integral to the definition of a person as a "personality disorder" is like trying to untangle Christmas lights, a hopeless task. For a sociopath to truly admit they are "disordered" would be an admission that the self/ego is flawed, and the egoic mind protects this identity fiercely. This results in a mindset of "There's nothing wrong with me, other people are just weak, it's their fault. I'm doing the world a service by teaching them this." It's the mentality of a thief, a rapist, a con man, a cheater, a liar. Without regard to anyone else's rights or individuality, without any regard to rules or conscience, without compassion or remorse, they simply take what they want whenever and however possible. THIS IS NOT INTELLIGENCE. Figuring out that lying, cheating, and stealing is possible doesn't make you smart, it just makes you evil.

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  43. Figuring out the obvious, that you can maximize personal benefit by lying, cheating, and stealing; DOES NOT make a person a genius. It's not like people with a conscience don't know this. We just choose not to do it. Sociopaths aren't necessarily more "intelligent," some are smart, some aren't, just like everyone else. They have an increased criminal mentality, which is not the same as intelligence.

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  44. A truly intelligent person doesn't use their mind simply to "win" the game of life or get over on other people. Ted Bundy was not Einstein. In fact, like all sociopaths/psychopaths, his ego became his eventual downfall as he tried to defend himself in court (a truly bonehead move). Social manipulation is a skill, like playing the guitar, but that doesn't mean a person is mentally superior. Getting people to trust you by playing a role, then feeling self-satisfied when you con them, doesn't make you a genius; it makes you an a$%hole. Which is why the world is better off without sociopaths. They create misery at the expense of other people for their own selfish gain. Most avoid criminal acts, but make full use of immoral acts whenever possible. They belong in a place where they can lie, cheat, steal, and con each other to their heart's content and they already have a place for them, it's called a jail. Of course, many are still wandering around free, making life suck for the rest of us, but as to the notion that sociopaths possess any form of higher intelligence, that's definitely not true. Just selfish, immoral, dishonest, and they make life less fun for everyone else.

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  45. Anon shut up.
    Sociopaths are mentally ill, they can't help what they do. If you think the world is better off with out them why should other metally ill people be aloud to wander around. You can't just arrest people cause you think they are going to do something. You cannot group all sociopaths together with one serial killer, and if you did some reserch you'd see that Ted Burdy was more than a sociopath he was a f**kin lunatic. And if a sociopath is treated for it when it first appears they can live a more normal life than if it is just left. By the way people can be selfish, immoral, dishonest and make life suck for everyone eles without being a sociopath, you proved that one yourself.

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  46. I'm loving this post, not just because of the statistical + social reasoning presented (AND the highly 'entertaining' comments that follow, eg. obvious display how some people did not bother to read the author's description/explanation of what standardized IQ tests mean and contain)... because of the mere notion itself that antisocial fuckups (which I highly suspect myself of being too, though I don't satisfy all the DSM-IV-TR criteria) could possibly be considered as 'smarter' than the average population. [It's a rewarding thought really, for being society's fuckups.]

    A 'fun' free website to test your IQ --- www.intelligencetest.com/ (not too sure about the reliability though)

    I scored 132. Just saying/gloating :)

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  47. I.Q. tests were designed as predictive assessments. Tests such as the Stanford Binet have been used by western sociologists to predict individual performance potential in western societies. Intelligence is relative, and any discussion about whether they are racially or culturally biased is moot, because, yeah, that's how they are designed: to reveal how well an individual will perform over time in a culture that values competitiveness, rationality, extroversion, and where those traits are rewarded through social elevation and financial remuneration. I was tested every grade from K-6th, scoring between 152-168. I should say that I am a caring, empathetic individual as well as being intelligent. The thought of hurting an animal makes me sick. I get impatient with others sometimes, and have days where I'm certain that everyone is retarded, but generally I care about people. I am an environmental manager; a do-gooder. It's true that my 'conscience' has hindered my financial success. I could have made more money if I did not have scruples, but I have found a high measure of satisfaction, and moderate financial success, through work that I find rewarding. I have discovered that doing something that benefits the planet as a whole will ultimately benefit me as an individual. This discovery is the result of rational thought, i.e. applied intelligence. I find the comments posted here by some of the self-described ‘sociopaths’ to indicate attitudes destructive to self and society, and therefore irrational. Manipulative tendencies and the ability to employ deductive reasoning are not intelligence, per se, if they ultimately lead to one’s downfall. I looked up this site because I have a coworker who is a sociopath and, although he seems intelligent, he is incredibly lazy, neglectful and very bad at his job… but he’s such a ‘nice’ guy that he has everyone fooled. His inaction almost led to the resort where I work being closed down because of failed environmental compliance. I had to scramble to compensate for his negligence. What would have been the accomplishment if he had put himself, and everyone else, out of home and job? How is that intelligent?

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  48. It amazes me how much misconception there is surrounding the concept of intelligence. It is quite irrelevant what IQ tests were originally designed for, the trends they revealed have clear meaning. Just to clear some of this up:

    IQ represents something called the g factor, which is correlated with just about any mental test, spatial reasoning, quantitative, qualitative, etc.

    It is correlated 80% with vocabulary size.

    There are functions of something called complex reaction time (quickly solve a mental task) that correlate just as well as any other test with it.

    IQ is 76% heritable, (varies with genes) verified by tests which did things like studied identical twins reared apart. The rest could easily be attributed to testing error.

    IQ tests absolutely do identify that a person is mentally superior in every way shape and form - This includes moral reasoning.

    Any attribute a person can have other than physical is based on information a person can gather from the world around them, which high IQ people do better.

    The only thing IQ hasn't been well correlated with is success in terms of income level, and this has been attributed to the fact that other people target them due to insecurities regarding their relative inferiority. (For example, high IQ people perform better in the workplace, but do not receive a proportional amount of credit relative to everyone else)

    Most importantly, it is difficult or impossible for a person to correctly interpret the moral values of the actions of someone significantly higher than them in intelligence.

    Most claims of sociopath can be related to an extremely naive interpretation of morality called "Tribal morality". It involves groups of people with uniformly low intelligence who equate deviance from "social norms" with immorality. The tribal aspect of it comes from the fact that such people's concept of "social norms" is actually only local to them and the people they interact with, and to other people or even objectively might be quite naive.

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  49. The above is particularly a problem among police, who have an average IQ of around 90. Their job is not supposed to afford them the ability to interpret the law, but simply by choosing who to arrest/investigate and when to do it they effectively do so.

    They also have the effect of being a vocal majority in local politics (if you could vote to make your job easier, wouldn't you?) thus further infecting society with their naive ideals.

    You will often hear them say things like "the law is common sense" which signifies their perception that the law reflects local social norms. They also frequently commit crimes and expect other police officers to conceal this as the police tribe comes before all others.

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  50. I don't believe one's "self" can be flawed, and I'm not a sociopath. Just saying.

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  51. Einstein was not Einstein, according to most folks understanding of him.

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  52. The flaw is in assuming that all sociopaths are the same. Sociopath is a broad term, essentially meaning "emotionally deaf." However, sociopaths come in multiple forms. What makes a sociopath seem intelligent is that they think logically rather than emotionally. However, the actual levels of intellect are different, and the personalities of sociopaths are often different. For example, I am a sociopath and I have always been considered quite intelligent - 4.0 GPA, high IQ score, etc. I am a bit anti-social, but when people listen I can become quite the center of attention. However, my best friend is also a sociopath, and he did quite poorly in school. To this day he can't look at a map of the U.S.A. and point out 10 states. However, his logical attitude causes people to respect what he says. He quite enjoys getting weak-minded people to "worship" his opinions, although he often has no basis for those opinions. He is the "life of the party" type and people naturally look up to him, regardless of the fact that he only graduated high school because he was on the football team.
    Hopefully this coherently answers your question

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  53. NO SOCIOPATHS ARE NOT SMARTER -FACT.

    I am very empathic with an IQ of 150.

    The globalist New World Order are trying to push propaganda that sociopaths are highly evolved, genius predators to make people aspire to the values that they share and thus rationalise in the minds of the public the psychopathic actions of the elite in their oppression of the populations.

    They also want to promote immoral, dog eat dog values in society to divide and conquer, to destroy family/social values that might unite people against the 'elite'.
    They cannot tolerate devotion to something other than the state, hence the orchestrated attack on religion.

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  54. Would you be able to pass a multiple choce test made by a socipath especially for you?

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  55. As the father of a sociopath, I am gaining a lot of insight from these discussions. My son is, without question highly intelligent. So am I. But I am an empath, and that has indeed made me weaker than my son up until now. My qualifications are not spectacular. I got my BS in 3 years and graduated with a doctorate at the age of 24. Hardly a genius, but smart enough to know that I am not. Also smart enough to have finally diagnosed my son's condition; something that no one is more qualified to do than a parent.
    I have spent almost 23 years of my life with my son now, and although I have had people hint to me about his condition since he was about 8 years old, delusion, denial and a real lack of understanding kept me from making the diagnosis firmly in my mind until 2 days ago.
    When I say that a parent is the best authority to diagnose a sociopath, that assumes that the parent is at least functionally conversant with science, especially neurophysiology, and the DSM IV TR. But the truth of this statement is undeniable and fundamental if one looks at the main characteristics of what a sociopath is.
    Sure, there are some minor differences about the exact nature of a sociopath among the various organizations that deal with this disease, but there are certain concepts that they all hold in common.
    By definition, sociopaths are incapable of developing genuine relationships with others. This includes the brightest minds in the psychiatric community. And for any therapeutic interventions to have even the slightest chance at success, the therapist has to be able to develop a mutually trusting relationship with the patient. Clearly this is impossible with a sociopath since the therapist will only end up with a snapshot view of what the sociopath wants him/her to see. This makes it virtually impossible for the therapist to make the correct diagnosis, leave alone being able to have an impact on the patient.
    On the other hand, even a modestly intelligent parent, once the blinding factors of denial and disbelief are removed, can see what the therapist will never be able to...mistakes.
    The reason I said that I cemented my son's diagnosis in my mind 2 days ago was due to one such mistake; a lapse in my son's talent to deceive if you will. You see, no one, even a sociopath is perfect over a long enough period of time. That is where the parent has the advantage IF they are willing to even consider the possibility. After all, it is not something any feeling parent would wish for their child, and denial is not only very powerful by itself, but is used by the sociopath as a tool to keep the delusion going.
    But I have finally reached the stage where I can no longer deny reality. There have been enough lapses in his mask over the years, and I have finally admitted to myself the reality of my son's condition as well as the effects it has on me. Being an empath I will continue to love him, albeit from a distance. While I am still with him I will deal with him finally knowing the rules of our relationship, but I plan to save myself by moving far away from him as soon as possible.
    As a parting gift I will tell him everything that I know, and strongly suggest some drastic treatments if he wants to be a real, connected part of this species. These would include electroconvulsive shock therapy, or MDMA assisted psycotherapy followed up by intensive traditional psychotherapy. Hopefully, some day he will be able to understand my world as well as I have come to understand his.

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  56. "IQ tests absolutely do identify that a person is mentally superior in every way shape and form - This includes moral reasoning."

    Whoever said that is a moron.

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  57. Intelligence is a spectrum aside from Personality Disorders, one does not predict the other. imo
    Unless one is talking about Emotional IQ then the Sociopath scores low on their own end, but knows when he/she encounters empathy driven humans, and works their 'charm' (Act). That is not smart, as crooks are eventually exposed (their cockiness assures that).
    Whole brains know that deceiving others- gathers no long term good (emotional or otherwise).

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    1. I was a sociopath but now slightly drawn to the 'socioempathic' world. Whoever fails to admit the strength of his opponent, has failed to admit his weakness too. When we look at you poor empaths, we look at your emotional strength to successfully dive into our reasoning strength. What do you do about it? Since your emotions outweigh your reason you look at our emotional weakness and you think you can manage us NO. Look at our mental strength and the first thing to it is to accept the fact hat its strong.

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    2. When you help the needy on street, you secretly have an inner look and selfishly hope that good would reward you abundantly. Right? All empaths are driven by selfish reasons. A sociopath has not given you a reason to love him thats why you hate him. An empath gives you a reason to love him by being good to you, right? Then what is that unconditional love you always talk about. The world is driven by self love hidden in the shadows of emotions. Lemme give you a reason to love me and i take what i want, right?

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  58. Yes i am totally agreed with this article and i just want say that this article is very nice and very informative article.I will make sure to be reading your blog more. You made a good point but I can't help but wonder, what about the other side? !!!!!!THANKS!!!!!!
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  59. Sociopaths use reason to run the world. What do you use? emotions? Hahahahaha you are funny. You people say we practice your ways to get into your lives. no, we use a great deal of psychology which makes us more of you empaths. You study what we live so you are way too far from our kind. A sociopath is everything you see. Its just a matter of knowing how positive that thing is and live in it. You see you people when they bad is bad, you say yes but when you tell a sociopath that bad is bad, he will say no, its bad and good, Which is true but hard to see. A high functioning sociopath like me concentrates on the positive side of the world in both that you call good and bad. Lemme not waste my time for you wont understand reality because you are all transparent to me

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  60. Extreme IQ (g) is necessarily sociopathic.

    Why?

    Because 175 IQ is 5 standard deviations out from normal. How many people are in your +/- 2 SD (145 - 205 IQ)? Not very bloody many. Your society is so rarefied that the vast majority of people don't fall within the realm of what you would consider YOUR society. Abstraction with respect to choices that effect those that far outside your idea of normal will make them as ants are to you. As a normal (100 IQ) person someone 5 SD beneath you would have an IQ of 25.

    So, exceptional IQ is a type of sociopathy with respect to normal people - by definition. It is not that sociopaths necessarily have a high IQ, but that anyone who is so far above the norm in intelligence is necessarily sociopathic. To put into perspective 1:3,500,000 people has an IQ of 175. There are between 2 and 3 of them in New York City assuming a random distribution. There are probably more as they will cluster in places where they are more likely to find peers, and that isn't in Buttfuck, Nebraska.

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  61. NO! Sociopaths are told they are smart, while feeling the exact opposite. Who wrote this book? You do nothing but dehumanize. You sensationalist piece of trash.

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  62. Any data that shows sociopaths are smarter?

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