Sunday, October 26, 2014

Pursuer of Potential

This was an interesting comment on an old post (including a lot of traits that many of you will recognize -- but I'm always a little surprised and even a little bit charmed to see them so consistently in so many strangers):

Harvard Student, Wealth Manager, Pursuer of Potential
Parameters for this comment:
I've never publicly shared my ideas on the subject. I won't be proofing this since it's anonymous. I'm sure this comment will be very self-centric, as it will be a break from academic writing. If I offend you, this probably isn't the best thread to cry me a river on so try to enjoy a different perspective.

So I’ve been told that I am compartmental, principled sociopath, extremely objective, a/o very manipulative. In short, I began a career in financial services, study at Harvard, am in a 5+ year relationship and I've never truly confided in anyone. 

It seems the only thing I genuinely recognize as off limits is targeting innocence. Since I was in grade school I would prey on bullies or tough/popular/show-off classmates because I viewed them as being game to compete against others; especially if they unjustly picked on others. Innocence though, goes for most children, naïve house pets, and highly sheltered adolescence/adults. In these cases, I view the subjects/people as defenseless or helpless. I've been viewed as empathetic by my family because at a young age I learned how to read emotions/truth/lie from other people so as to emulate them when I went to "sell," something. This was not crying when I didn't get a desired toy/candy rather, stealing it next time without mention to not raise suspicion or to barter with my mom. I found success at 8 years of age by borrowing a rake, shovel, or lawn mower and going door to door. I had all the toys/candy I wanted by half ass-ing child labor to charge $25. I simply made a poster for a fund raiser and taped it to my mower. I even got called out when parents didn't like that their kids did the mowing for me and took home $7 while I kept the difference. When confronted, I simply told them that they ensured their kid wouldn’t work with me again.

My principles have been established over the years. I realized I needed them when I was in kindergarten. I hung out with high school kids in my neighborhood in exchange for doing things that they needed. This included being the one to get hoisted in to windows to unlock a house from the inside or start fights with other kids when there was a stupid dispute. The worst thing I remember doing was defending my "friends" from another kids' large dog using the chain from my bike. It was at this point when I decided that I would use principles to decide what is "right." For the most part, risk and reward are the biggest drivers. It doesn't matter what it is or at least I haven't met a decision that's made me feel uncomfortable. Is my risk being matched with equal or greater reward? If not than no-go, no matter what. I do, however, enjoy a hero or even god complex. I've saved a person from drowning, dodged a car accident only to pull off and rescue them from a flaming car (which did NOT explode...). I enjoy holding the high level of importance to one's life and then giving it to them so that they feel fortunate. I suppose a sociopath who saves people isn't unheard of, but I'm in no rush to save starving kids from labor in under developed countries. In my opinion, under waged child laborers in those countries are turning a buck for their family as opposed to competing with the other children begging on the streets. In my belief, there is a choice and while companies could give more money to the labor, I know I would choose the most effective option. Until the customer demands it and it becomes as important as the fabric used to make the shirt, then the company should be as lean as possible. (off-topic)

I've come a long since I was in grade school.
I've been in a relationship now for 5+ years and I haven't had any tendency to harm anyone since I was younger. Back then I never went further than breaking an arm or hand in a brawl or fight along side my friends. The rush was good but part of me looks forward to me finding a legal outlet to get a better rush. Growing up, I've experimented with guys and girls sexually and I could honestly go for either. It's really just about the fun of learning how each other tick and triggering that tick. I decided to stick with females for a couple reasons. It's been easier to blend in with a woman, and my fiancé pushes me to do more. Also, I enjoy aiding the damsel in distress act. What's curious to me is while I've never cared about actually helping others, I find enjoyment in taking on that "helping" role in the relationship. Also, I find that I've never truly confided in anyone. This goes for significant others, family, and friends alike. People who know me, know a certain version of me that I've created to best suit my circumstances and appear like a hero or champion. Mentors have identified this characteristic as being my most valuable trait because it will be most useful to me becoming successful professionally as well as managing the personal issues. 

Recently, I've relocated away from friends and family to follow this girl (5+ years) and it's starting to be recognized that I don't keep up communication with anyone. Simply, it's been a relief to not have to be close to these people and have to keep up with what's making them tick. While I recognize that it's been hard for some of those people, I have no urge to change what's been going on. Often times, when my fiancé and I run in to a rough patch I wonder what I would do should we ever break it off. When I met her, I was in the process of opening a bail bonds business so that I could essentially have a license to hunt the ultimate prey when they jump bail. I didn't have a desire to hurt people, but I have always enjoyed the hunt. I think many people share this urge. 

While I've never been religious, my family is Christian/Catholic. As a teen, I opened up to a family friend, and he gave me a copy of "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. I highly recommend it to anyone deciding or refining the principles by which they live their life. This book along with the study of different religions has taught me the power of prayer, habit, attitude, and how to obsess over something to make it happen. This is truly the only use of religion in my opinion. That is, furthering your potential through belief in something bigger than one's self. I am now completing my Bachelor's through Harvard and work in wealth management. Both things that I don't think I would have done without principles and setting goals to align with a woman from a "comfortable style of living." For me, it's since been all about furthering my potential and soon raising a child which will challenge my success. These thoughts and ideas have me puzzled. I live a life which has ALWAYS been positive and "glad." I refuse to let anything get me down, though I fake being bothered to those around me show that I care about something, as it seems that's what's needed to show caring... (makes no sense, and I think it's a stupid way to be...) But what I do seem to care about, even from a kid was one day reaching a point where I've dramatically climbed the socio-economic ladder (increased my class), and having a child (son or daughter) who challenges my success through their own (almost like a worthy adversary). A fantasy of mine would be to meet an exact twin of mine and square off. 

I'm interested in seeing if anyone else shares my views or wishes to challenge them. I'd also be interested in thoughts or replies which challenge my values.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

Can sociopaths date other sociopaths?

A reader asks:
I have thought for a long time that I am probably a sociopath. I am good at picking up on what people want from me and becoming that person, which makes me very popular. I have mastered the art of being liked. I'm a pretty girl and have always easily found men, been married twice, and left both husbands after a few years because I was bored. Although I'm good at painting myself as the sympathetic party. The ironic thing is that I'm a social worker, and work with distressed families, people always ask me if it breaks my heart, or assume that I love "helping people", and I usually go with this. I actually enjoy the fact more that my job takes me into scary situations, threatened violence or poverty-stricken crime-filled areas, and allows me to intimidate people. Sometimes people suggest that I should be able to carry a weapon, and I always say it is not necessary and make up some liberal bullshit about not wanting to carry a weapon (the truth is I love to shoot). I don't feel like I need a weapon ever, I feel totally confident in my ability to control almost any situation. Whew. It's nice to be so honest with someone. I probably sound like a narcissist, but I'm just trying to tell you the truth about who I am and my situation as quickly as possible.

All of this to say, that within the last year I met a man who I'm positive is a Sociopath too. In fact we talked about it once, and he admitted to me that he wonders if he is. (I of course did not admit anything to him! The part I play with him is the slightly dumb but intensely caring and unable to lie enabler.) He did say that he has never had anyone see through him like that. I have never had any legal trouble, and he has been caught several times, for stealing essentially. It kind of makes me think I'm smarter than him. BUT I really do like this person, and not in the half-hearted way I liked my husbands. I am sure that it is his manipulation of me that has caught my interest, and an intense desire to WIN him. He has a girlfriend, in fact, now a fiance. He has been cheating on her the entire time he was been with her, with me. He lies to her about all kinds of things constantly because he wants to preserve her image of him as more normal than he is. (He told me he feels like if anyone knew the real him they would think he was a monster) I became OBSESSED with him. Although at times where I felt like he was into me not as much so. But the moment he pulls away I want to devour him and possess his soul.

Is it possible, do you think, for two sociopaths to have a relationship? Or will it be this constant fight for control? I feel in many ways like a relationship with him might become the most honest relationship I've ever had with someone, I've told him this, but he doesn't know what I am so he doesn't understand it. Or maybe doesn't want it. Do I really have feelings for him do you think? Or is this something that would disappear if I ever won him? I feel like he is the only man I've ever met who may hold my interest because of his own fearlessness and risk taking behavior. Wow. I'm sorry to ramble on like this, but I'm very interested in your perception of the situation. What do you think, is it possible for two sociopaths to find love with each other? Or will we just ruin each other in the end?
I actually have no clue. I've never been in a relationship with another sociopath. Anyone else have any insight?

Friday, October 24, 2014

More on compassion

These two comments as a little bit of a follow up on empathy and compassion discussion:

why is it that so many empaths expect the sociopath to unfailingly feel things the way they do, no matter how much effort is required, yet are unwilling to put the same amount of effort into managing their own emotions? 

And:

to me compassion feels expansive, like a feeling of connectedness where no one is better or worse than you, a feeling where we're all in it together... just like a drug high but without the drugs. compassion makes me want to paint or write, create art. or freely give you money as if i'm giving it to myself. and that's cool 'cause we're one. : )

empathy feels tight and urgent, like a toothache. it's personal, in its own tight little space, and more about filling my needs even though i'm actively filling yours. i may be feeling with you, but not WHAT you're feeling. and the whole point is to calm my own feelings. if i give you money, it's because things aren't okay and i'm hoping the money will change that. empathy that has no outlet just makes me want to get drunk. 

Thursday, October 23, 2014

Informed consent

From a reader:

An old friend of mine and I are talking.  She too is in the legal profession, is brilliant, and scored really high on the psychopathic deviate portion of the MMPI.

She is full of crap in a pleasant kind of way, doesn't seem to have any vices that I cannot tolerate.  We knew each other 20 years ago and just started talking.  We had a wonderful weekend a while back and spend lots of time in the evenings talking or typing via social media and/or text.

She, like me, has been with people who have in one way or another been abusive.  She says that through a year of therapy, she and therapist have deconstructed her old construct for dealing with things.  At times, when I ask her how she feels about us, she says she has no access to the information.

She is very honest it seems and given me detached advice, detachment being a forte of hers, lol.  ("First: Run. Like hell. The cons are this broad is WAY to fucked up in the head to make the pros worth dealing with. If, however, you choose to ignore THAT bit of advice... Second: be patient. You are dealing with a very damaged individual who has deep-seated trust issues as well as a host of other psychological problems. If you really are foolhardy enough to want to venture into something more than a really fun friendship (which is a *really* bad idea, it will likely do more harm to you than you *ever* thought possible), you are going to have to move very slowly and carefully.")

When I mention her emotional state, she reacts like a turtle and withdraws.  If she is affectionate and I act like I do not notice it, it's ok because I am not calling her attention to it being vulnerable.  

She is trying to talk me out of being with her and seems to think that I will end up being hurt.  I think things might be workable.  We live four hours away, with her near my hometown where I go see my parents.  I don't necessarily think that choosing a partner based on logic rather than emotion is a bad thing.  In fact, our "hearts" often get us in trouble.  She seems to be a good, practical fit for me if we can work around this.  And I her.

I have questions:
1) When she says she is wary about letting me too far into her head ( "I have been straightforward about what a mess I am, and about the fact I don't believe any decent human being deserves to have to deal with my shit. I'm willing to try anything once or a few times, but I honestly believe I'm too damaged to be functional in any kind of healthy relationship and that mere exposure to the full scope of the mess in my head is enough to damage a decent person far beyond what I find acceptable. Like I said - I like you. You're a great guy. Which is exactly why I don't want to let you too far in"), what does she mean?  She is less hateful than my ex-wife, who was Jezebel reincarnate.  What is inside there, and how can I handle/manage/deal with  it?  If I can?

2) Does this seem viable enough for us to take things slowly?  We have no choice.  She is an attorney, I teach college English, and we live a little ways away.  

3) She is determined not to show "vulnerability" by acting as if she cares for me.  When I pin her on it, she says things like "i won't admit to it, but the fact that I was whining when you needed to get off the phone ought to tell you something."  Facta non verba here, correct?

4) Any other advice you might have?  I would like things to work, but I don't want to feel used either. 

"I read this recently on your blog as posted by another reader: 'With other sociopaths, I believe there is fear of rejection, inability to respond emotionally and the ever-present wall so many of us have built. We get sick of being rejected, of being labeled, judged or 'fixed.' When someone gets past the wall of a sociopath, they will typically find a deep pool of human emotions they didn't expect. These emotions are shown to few and are always followed by efforts to re-establish comfortable emotional distance. If you're not a sociopath and you had the opportunity to 'swim in the pool,' feel privileged, as few do. We're lonely, misunderstood people.' 

A friend of mine who is sociopathic claims to protect me by 'not letting me too far inside.'  What may be in there, and why the reluctance?"

Thanks for your knowledge and all you do.  Respects!  

And since I'm like 11 months behind in replying to emails, upon asking for a quick follow up on what had happened in the last year, the reader continued:

She ended up just cutting off contact. And marrying a man who was a lot like me, yet obviously dumb and easy to control.  I bet he doesnt know about her psychopathy, though he will find out about this eventually, I am sure.  Then again, there are people who are ok with this.

I ended up going on antidepressants but then realized that plenty of people have selfish motives and veil them,which may be even more dishonest.  Like some of you typed, it's kind of like surviving cancer, being let in that far.  But I don't regret the experience at all.  Big insight into human nature . . .

She did have integrity and did give me the chance to have informed consent, which she did not have to do.  Why do you think she even bothered with this?? Maybe she liked me enough to not let me in too far, or maybe because I was/am intelligent, I wouldn't be easy enough or fun enough to try to dupe.

I have learned from this: being raised by motorcycle clubs since I was 16, I am very loyal though I myself have sociopathic leanings in the eyes of the dominant culture due to this.  I put my people first.  I have learned that channeling this woman appropriately and thinking about how somebody like her might handle a situation allows me to detach enough to think critically and oftentimes give the people I work around what they want without hurting anybody *or* coming on too strong with it, which she does sometimes.

I am Wiccan and am joining the Freemasons, so these things provide me with a good background to not feel bad about getting what I want while still providing an injunction against deliberately screwing other people over.

The experience freaked me out, but it taught me a lot too.

Any commentary would be appreciated.

My response: The idea of informed consent is interesting, I find myself doing it with people that I sort of respect -- they're not the average sheep, but someone whom I could honestly see myself having uncommon meetings of the minds with. I sort of write about it here.

She reminds be a little bit of the Violet character from True Blood, if you've seen it.

Wednesday, October 22, 2014

Feckless Aspie, Clueless Sociopath

From a comment in response to the question of why do aspie's come across so much better than sociopaths do:

I can see a few reasons.

The aspie comes off as feckless; he can't help it. 

There are a few ways the sociopath can blow it. 

1) He doesn't anticipate the disgust. E.g. an American in Thailand might pat a kid on the head. Similarly, I might remark to a mother/daughter pair, "it is amazing to think that she came out of you," because I just don't have the same feelings about things. Observers think, "the sociopath is disgusting."

2) He acts charming to get something. Then he takes it, impulsively, when the opportunity appears. Feelings of betrayal and hatred arise in the victim and observers, because the victim thinks, "he could & should have kept doing what I liked. He shouldn't have betrayed me." If you asked the sociopath why he deceived, he might say, "I gave the person what he wanted. Later, I saw an opportunity to take what I wanted, and I did."

3) The sociopath gets irritated by a person. There's stimulus -> rage -> plotting/scheming. The sociopath mostly thinks. He doesn't experience his feelings much. His response is to "act" either by doing something or thinking about what to do; it isn't to experience the feelings, question the feelings, question the assessment of the situation that led to the feelings. The sociopath might build weapons (or the equivalent) and stash them, anticipating a conflict; that's a way to "let off steam" by taking action. 

Finally, in response to a trigger, the sociopath lashes out and executes a plan, perhaps using preplanned elements. Outside observers see the sociopath as being impulsive, vicious, premeditated and overreacting. 

Feelings of horror or fear arise in observers and they decide the sociopath is very frightening, extreme and beyond redemption. It doesn't help that when they interview the sociopath after the stuff, he'll probably sound quite unemotional; observers will translate that into, "he not human."
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