Friday, September 6, 2013

Sociopathic altruism?

A female reader who relates to the sociopathic mentality writes about a lot of things that I relate to -- being a disruptive force in my family and provoking people emotionally to manipulate them until I grew older, then started using my people reading and manipulation skills to smooth things over. And now I am the peacemaker/powerbroker in the family:

I've been reading through your blog, and feel a lot of familiarity in your posts and fact section.

I lie constantly and can't control it, I have a grandiose opinion of myself, many admirers both male and female, a chameleon personality, and in the past have been prone to a quick temper--saying intentionally and specifically hurtful words to the people closest to me. As a defense mechanism usually, but I always knew how to hurt someone the most, how to put the ball in my court; how to manipulate and control. It was the worst with my family when I was younger. I've since learned this is rather unacceptable behavior among other people.

I often think to my childhood. My father was an angry man, his own father suffered from PTSD and my father inherited some violent tendencies and anger management problems. The thing is, I'm much smarter than he is--much smarter than most people, and when I was a young powerless little girl and into adolescence...well it grew to be a very dramatic power struggle. Shouting matches, crying, drama, anything to break him out of his rages--sometimes outrageous displays of emotion(though, intentional).

At the current age of 22, I now have the most influence on every member of my family. Thing is, I had to, in order to repair what was so broken and dysfunctional. Get into everybody's head, maybe control them, manipulate a bit sure--but I fixed things, eventually. Seemingly altruistic, but when it comes down to it, isn't altruism also selfishness?

I remember when I was 7 or 8, my grandma died. I'd met her many times, she'd given me plenty as a child. We were at her funeral and my mom was crying, leaning on a church pew. I had no real tears, but I forced myself to bawl that day. I remember thinking simultaneously, while crying and exaggerating my shoulders, that this is what she wanted from me though I had no inner emotional response. I knew instinctively that this would also benefit me. Turns out I've been painting the picture of myself as a very loving, innocent, and caring person for a very long time...

I'm wondering if sociopaths ever use their abilities to altruistic extremes, in which the end result benefits them, as well as everyone else? I also feel like I have the capacity to feel strong feelings, but it's more of an intensity. Romantic relationships can be very intensely positive, and intensely negative. When sleeping with people I either have absolutely no attachment to the person, or an unhealthy obsession.

Found your website and was engrossed. I've always known I was different. When my roommate found out she was pregnant, and told me and my friend--she was crying hysterically and my friend was visibly distressed. I didn't react at all. I had to think first how I was going to react to this, what was appropriate, because I had no immediate response. It didn't affect me at all.

I have consciously on several occasions admitted to myself that my personality can very dramatically change depending on my location, situation, and who I'm surrounded by. I somehow easily win people's trust, respect, and admiration--I seem to cater my approach to each specific individual, and it doesn't take me much time. I always chalked it up to being charismatic and understanding, and I'm not entirely sure if I'm a sociopath who's grown up and figured out how to truly blend in and still get everything I want--or something else.

I've been viewing life from this perspective lately and have realized that I am different, but have been lucky enough to be surrounded by certain influences and experiences growing up which have developed into a great and generous moral code I can abide by. 


There has been much growth and change since my teenage years especially, and even now and this past summer, such constant change. Seriously, thank you for all the work you've put into your site, it's contributed a lot to my growth and helped me navigate my own relationships and the way I am. Understanding. I didn't understand why I am the way I am for so long. 

Can sociopaths be altruistic? I don't know, but they certainly can be very effective at relating and interacting with people. I was listening to a talk from LDS primary children President Rosemary Wixom in which she discusses trying to think like a child in order to better relate and deal with children. It's such an easy concept but so hard for a lot of people to put into practice. Sociopaths very naturally understand and adapt to the needs of the people around them, though, whether people of different ages, cultures, genders, ethnicities, etc. That's obviously going to be a very useful and welcome trait in almost any situation. It's funny, though, what the reader said about not understanding herself -- I think especially younger sociopaths find it easier to understand other people than they understand themselves.

Thursday, September 5, 2013

Better off post-sociopath?

A reader writes about how he appreciated having sociopaths in his life, if for nothing else because they add excitement and color to life and brought out different aspects of his own personality:

I'm much better off for having sociopaths in my life at one time.  Have you ever read Jack Kerouac's "On the Road?"  Whether you have or haven't, I'll give you some context: JK, in my estimation was a very shy empath, hence the raging lifelong alcoholism.  He found himself drawn to Neil Cassady, a sociopath who probably had some bipolar disorder thrown in as well.  Cassady brought so much fun, spontaneity and wildness into Keroac's life that there literally would be no "On the Road" or Jack Kerouac if it weren't for Cassady. 

Anyway, in all honesty, I'm probably more like Keroac in temperament - a good bit more outgoing, but nonetheless, an introverted empath.  My best friend through much of my childhood and adulthood is the co-founder of a website that's a household name now.  To make a very long story short, he cut me out and threw me away when I was no longer convenient for him in the internet businesses, however I wouldn't trade the experiences and pain for anything.  It's the time in my life that's worth writing a book about (which I have), and if we're really all honest with each other, I would bet that its sociopaths that make life more interesting, and worth writing about in the first place.

By the way Ms. Thomas, I love your book.  I am now a practicing psychotherapist, a profession mostly populated by empaths, and your book provides the greatest insight into sociopaths of anything I've ever read, and I have a stack of books up to my chin about sociopathy.  

If you feel so inclined, I'd love to ask you some questions; I'll start with one: you said in your book that Mormons were some of the sweetest, most loving people you've ever met, or you said that about people at Brigham Young, I believe.  How do you as a sociopath react to sweet, kind people?  Do you see them as rich source for gain and opportunity, or do you enjoy the love you feel, or some combination of both?

My response:

I like sweet people as long as it comes from a genuine place. I think that most people who are self-actualized or able to see the big picture tend to be a little bit sweet and generous because they realize that life is short and there aren't really winners or losers (at least not in the rat race), so why not make friends with your seatmates. And a lot of Mormons are this way. It is like I said in the book -- Mormons believe that we are all spirit brothers and sisters and of course you're going to act more generously with your brothers and sisters than an enemy or non-relative, so there is generally a lot more social capital that I have with Mormons than other people.

But I guess to get more to the heart of your question, I like who I am around them. I'm really impressionable, like a chameleon, so when I'm around goodhearted Mormons, I'm more goodhearted myself. I'm also more willing to take risks and consequently I feel more effective, like I'm leveraging my assets in a way that is clearly making a difference in the lives around me. That makes me feel powerful. And I feel more in control of my own self when I am being that way, like it is my best self. It's one of the times when I feel most engaged in the world. Oddly one of the other times I feel most engaged with the world is when I'm playing a long con or mind game ("ruining people"). 

Wednesday, September 4, 2013

Almost sociopath (part 2)

From a reader (cont.)

The main issue in my hesitation at self-diagnosis is this...I know enough people similar to me - in and out of my own family - that also fit these parameters to a certain extent to still be unsure.

My mother seemed to have had similar experiences in her past.  She is a control freak with those around her (though especially with me) and has to be right (Dr Phil asks "would you rather be right or happy?", to her being right IS being happy).  She is very charming, people seem to like her a great deal, but when they prove to be less-than in some way to her she'll grow a tad nasty with them...this includes me with whom she's grown overly aggressive to the point of abusive - emotionally and mentally if not, once or twice, physically.

My grandmother is the same...though seems more borderline/narcissistic in personality and her behavior may also be due to other medical issues.  My grandfather was known to have many behavioral problems as a boy/teen and was, even by his own confession looking back, abusive to his children ("it was the way it was back then"), but did well in the navy and, after the birth of his children, did not have criminal issues at all to my knowledge.  One aunt was known to be promiscuous and switch her entire personality with each mate (I always imagined borderline more than anything) while the other settled happily into a marriage in which both her and husband live beyond their means without much concern for the future consequences - :cough: IRS audit :cough:.  My uncle is the most clearly the "typical sociopath" with a string of moves, jobs, and even (easily debunk-able) lies in his wake - he is also, though, the lowest-functioning person in the family so that could be why I'm most aware of his "typical" sociopathic behavior.

Some of my friends often seem to have the same viewpoint and will make similar-type jokes as me - including those others have called "wrong", "mean", etc - and will both laugh at and repeat my own.  They seem amused by the same things, to wanna do the same things, and believe the same general things as I do...but I wonder if this one isn't a bit of a chicken and the egg situation.  Are they conforming to me or am I conforming to them?

Or am I seeing a likeness that's not truly there for some self-denial/self-comforting (they're similar, thus like me, thus I'm "normal") reason??  (Other family members, to my knowledge, have not done any sort of cruelties to those around/close to them and they emote more frequently with more genuineness, it seems.)     ....OR are they all also truly like me?

And, if both family and friends are truly like me, then am I not a sociopath at all?  Or, maybe, am I an "almost" or "borderline" sociopath (most self-tests online came back as this or as "high-functioning")?  OR have I been surrounded by enough my own kind for long enough that I never realized what, exactly, my "kind" was until your blog, which resonates so thoroughly with me I swear I could've written some of the posts myself?

Any help you can offer would be much appreciated, any thing you need answered in order to help me I'll answer (outside the details of true name, etc, of course).  If you wish to put this up on the blog that is also fine...perhaps others are in a similar situation as mine and need the help.

Sincerely

"Skye"

PS: Please note I'm a tad late to the game on this - I'm 30 - but was always a late bloomer in personality, if I was to move to the next stage at all.  (I only truly realized the gender of my mate is irrelevant to me a few years ago, I still live with my mother due to crap financial issues - I'm working to rectify this one now - and never moved beyond the "I shouldn't do that because, if caught, I'll get in trouble"...it is seriously the only thing that keeps me in line, if I think I can get away with something I will absolutely give it a go.)

Tuesday, September 3, 2013

Almost sociopath (part 1)

From a female reader wondering where she falls on the sociopath spectrum:

I've been reading your blog from your first post on since I found it at the beginning of this week (still reading, expecting your book by end of week).  It's...fascinating.  But, more than that, it often times rings shockingly true.  I've spent years studying sociopaths, but given much out there was negative I'd frequently told myself "well I don't kill/rape/assault" and thus couldn't possibly be one.

This being said it seems highly possible I am.  I have done "bad" things - taken what wasn't mine, gone places I shouldn't have, destroyed psyches and lives - with nary a care in the world.  ...In fact even the "I don't assault" statement isn't entirely true given I'd been in a few fights; but they were non-chargeable incidents, disbelieved by others (no one believes the adorably pint-sized blue-eyed, blond, girl is capable of violence, especially when she targets bigger kids and boys), when I was young and they were often provoked or a playfulness that went awry...I thought I was playing, the other person found me to be physically bullying.  What I've always found most troubling - still do find most troubling - was how not troubled I was/am.  When my friends wept at movies I laughed, when they seemed horrified by the latest terrorist threat I shrugged, and when they grew cross at something in the news I simply did not see why they were making the fuss (after all, it did not personally affect them, did it?).  ...I used to torment my best friend thinking it was playful/it didn't bother her and hadn't a clue what I'd done was considered wrong/cruel until junior high when she wrote an explicit poem on how it made her feel...and then directly told me that the poem was about our interactions.

I slip in and out of interests and infatuations with both things and people without a second look back.  When asked what I love I simply gauge the people I'm with and go with the most satisfactory-to-them answer - with nerdy friends I like Lord of the Rings, with jock friends I like weight-lifting and kick-boxing, and on and on it goes.  This holds true for people as well...while I've had a small handful (3-5) of friends for years, since childhood, it seems due to not being able to keep any others.  I make friends fast, easily, but rarely keep them - they all just seem to slip away on me.  Of course I confess others have run off do to some game I played with/on them that they were not overly fond of.  Whatever the reason though I find I don't mind too much provided I didn't lose them to someone else - this holds overly true in the romance department; people don't leave me, I leave them, and I'll reconnect with exes just to ensure, in the end, I left them.

I cannot, for the life of me, say with any certainty what/who I, myself, love.  I have interests, yes, and can hold them for years upon years, at times almost obsessively I've been told, but loves?  ...I don't know...

After knowing me for a while some people have mentioned my...personality.  High school friends called me the Devil's puppy and said I was like the manipulative Katherine from Cruel Intentions (the modernized Dangerous Liaisons with Sarah Michelle Gellar).  Another friend noted that I was "the one that gets people to do things and then hides in the bushes, laughing, while the cops arrest them" (she was unaware at the time that I'd, in fact, done something just like that in my earlier youth...my then friend got kicked out of that store as a result, it was hilarious to me).  Even my grandmother declared "that's you!" as I read off some sociopathic traits I'd learned of.  My eyes have been mentioned once or twice, but only in positives (in that they were attractive) except from enemies who've noted I "stare right through" people...of course I don't know if they mean through like into the "soul" of or through like the other person wasn't there.

In argument for not having sociopathy: I am female (thus making it statistically less likely, so the research says).  I do understand sarcasm - which you mentioned would be hard for sociopaths - but there's a caveat on this one: I understand it in my family and close relations who use it with great frequency, I understand the kind I grew up on.  If I'm with someone new - a new friend, a new mate - I'm slower to pick it up...especially if written out without a winky/smiley emoticon or some other signifier that states the person is joking.  I also can at least speculate why another might cry should there be a stimulus for it around - she's crying because someone in the movie is dying - and have cried once or twice at movies myself (the greatest emotion attached to my crying though is frustration, even in a movie situation where I'm often finding something keenly unfair in the narrative towards a character I identify with in some way, but still I cry at a situation I know, logically, to be completely falsified...something I hate, the sense I'm being manipulated into a feeling, which is probably why I'll never watch a movie that's made me cry again).  ...Of course these might be due to years of experience and/or my exceptions, not my rules, in personality.  Not sure.


Monday, September 2, 2013

Iceland: Nation of sociopaths?

From a reader:

Thought you might find this interesting @ 21:10.



Iceland was originally largely founded and built by a large number of outcasts, sociopaths, murderers, and those that were allied with loosing warlords. They fled from the other parts of Scandinavia, largely Norway. Many names of places in Iceland are exact replicas of norwegian west-coast locations. Since much of the Viking population in Norway at that time was located there, it was only natural to see these names replicated.

Further in the video right after that time stamp I am showing you, they speak of how women from the British islands were enslaved and right out simply kidnapped and taken to Iceland, forming much of the initial female population. Needless to say, they picked the women they liked best. Perhaps a good step in evolution.

Here it is explained how 60% of the women were British while mostly the men were Scandinavian. I read once that genetic research suggests that 90% of male Y-chromosomes in Iceland are accurately Norwegian, while 80% of the women carry a marker in their X-chromosomes that is traceable to accurately Ireland and Scotland. But I guess they have been mixing a bit on these Islands, so I would not know how accurate that science is.

The whole of the Icelandic population is genetically mapped(ref: DeCode genetics). If you brain scan them as well, you could always do research on sociopathy and psychopathy looking for genetic- an brain signatures. Then write another book. I would read it.

And lastly, if you like slaughter, betrayal, manipulation and cold bloodedness you should read the Icelandic sagas. They are about real people in real places, a long time ago. I especially recommend "Egil Skallagrimsons saga", and "Saga of Grettir Asmundson."

"Some say he felt nothing when his father died, some say he cared." I remember that sentence from "Saga of Grettir Asmundson." I remembered it again when I read your book and you explicitly mentioned that this trait helped you get a diagnose. Grettir Asmundson was a sociopathic bad guy. Not because he was evil, he was also both a national hero and the oppsite. I identified with him alot, even though I am an empath, his trouble with society rooting in non-empathic traits were identifiable to me. I think you would identify with him too. Same goes for Egil Skallagrimson, however, he was never and outcast. Especially note the tone of the story telling as the violence takes place. It is ver un-emotional and straight forward, the way I imagine a sociopath would relate to anything, violent or not.
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