Manic depression and sociopathy (part 3)

Reader:

Oh, there's something that I wanted to add. My own theory when I'm in a hypomanic and manic state. From personal experience my brain has the ability to work faster and harder in a hypomanic state, so when you're in a social situation everything is happening in slow motion. That means a few things, one you get bored easily, secondly you can decipher people and their motivations much quicker. Combine the latter point with boredom and playing with people becomes entertaining. However, my brain would spin faster and faster if you will, becoming more capable by the hour but at a certain point you have a psychotic break. As if you're reached the practical limit of your brain's processing power and you just unravel and lose touch with reality. At this point you're living in your own world, and it feels great (at least in my experiences it has), but you will freak everyone around out.

M.E.:

I don't know that much about manic depressives, although I was accused of being one once during a period of prolonged illness. I wish I knew more about it, but maybe my readers do. Shall we see what they have to say about things?

Manic depression and sociopathy (part 2)

A reader writes (cont.):

When I was younger, I was very much a slave to my emotions and I would definitely have called myself weak and I think a lot people took advantage of that (including a sociopath or two now that I look at it with the knowledge I've acquired). I'm actually quite thankful in retrospect, I've learned a lot on how to deal and I suppose in turn manipulate people. Another great learning ground was the internet, mostly message boards. People seem to let themselves go and troll with reckless abandon. At first I fell for it, then I identified it, then I partook then I got bored and realized fucking with people over the internet or even just interacting with them was a completely waste of time. Especially if you consider that the good trolls which i butted heads with were probably sociopaths themselves and it would never end.

Having a number of psychotic breaks (since i'm bipolar type 1) was incredibly beneficial. Being completely detached from reality can give you a unique perspective on life.

To summarize one of the points I'm trying to make, is that as I grow older I seem to be gaining better control over my emotions and in some ways closer to the world of sociopathness, which is interesting.

So besides telling you my life story, what's your take on manic depressives? I don't think you can use me as a baseline mind you. If you go into chat rooms geared towards people with mental illness or bipolar you can see that most are completely unstable and it's incredibly easy to push buttons (My meds have erased a lot of my emotions though). I think those people would be closer to average for manic depressives. Anyway, I find what you're going through interesting and wouldn't mind engaging in some sort of dialogue concerning our differences/similarities, at the very least it would help me learn more about myself and sociopaths and offer you the ability to peer into a mind you might not encounter very often.

Manic depression and sociopathy (part 1)

A reader writes:

Been reading your blog, sociopaths have a pretty interesting take on life. I noticed you did interviews with empaths and some people with mental disorders. I used the search function and couldn't find your take on manic depressives/bipolar people. I myself am manic depressive and although it seems completely counter intuitive it feels like there are some similarities with things sociopaths go through (or at least I think there are similarities, I could be way off base). For example, at certain times I have the ability to completely shut off and my emotions and either feel nothing or next to nothing. My husband finds this troubling when after an argument and he's bawling his eyes out and I just stare at him blankly. This also occurs when I'm severely depressed, but when I reach those stages I don't feel pain anymore, it's just being completely numb, lacking energy or any motivation. Nothing seems worth the effort and it's not because I feel sorry for myself, there's no rationalizing it, complete and utter apathy. This usually occurs in a cycle, like a sin curve (my emotional states that is).

Then comes the idea of masks, I think you may have touched on it but my memory is spotty. When I am manic I can play any role, playing with people, mind games and the such is incredibly appealing. When I am near depression but not all the way there as I've mentioned below I've developed the ability to completely hide myself from others. I can be out getting ice cream with my daughter while we're sitting across from each other at a picnic table look straight into her eyes and smile while wishing for a hot bath with razor blades. I suppose in my eyes (again I could be wrong) it's that we're achieving the same ends in this case, although our motivations are completely different, or maybe not.

Of course when I'm near 0 on a sin curve, I'll call that "normal" I function more or less like your average person should. (cont.)

Love-ish (part 3)

Reader:

Agreed that all love has both selfishness and selflessness involved. However, LASTING love eventually evolves from selfishness into selflessness, as it becomes essential to care more about the other person than you do about your own needs. I believe real love contains elements of sincere attachment and commitment that make people stay in the relationship "through the good times and the bad, through sickness and health" etc. Real love is truly defined by how strong it is when life gets hard. Anyone can love when things are easy. That being said, I do not think it is elitist, it just is hard to do. You say that relationships with sociopaths seem to work. Do they? I value your blog and your need to bring society into a better understanding of what a sociopath feels and deals with in a world full of "empaths", however I think we would be hard pressed to find a relationship involving a sociopath that is truly functional (unless maybe it is with another sociopath). The sociopath of course believes the relationship is fine. They are getting what they need from it. But you ask the empath on the other end of the relationship if they are really happy and feeling fulfilled and I doubt you would hear a positive response. In most cases I am sure eventually that relationship is going to come to an end, with the empath feeling like they wasted their time. I have read many of your posts. I remember you writing that you are able to feel love. You have love for your mother, but it is more of just an "outlet" of yourself as she is your mother so it makes sense that you love her. You also wrote that you feel love for people in your life, but it is love "at that time"...and also can turn to intense hate within the same day. Lasting love is more than acting on impulse in the moment. It would appear that "at that time" kind of love does not involve any commitment. No commitment is feeling no attachment. No attachment is at the core of a sociopaths disorder. And a feeling of non attachment is never going to make an empath feel like the relationship is a good one. I do not doubt that empaths, those of us who are not aware yet of who they are actually involved with, or are in denial, or just have low enough self esteems that they do not feel worthy of something better...these empaths might be willing to go through the hardships of a relationship with a sociopath but I am convinced that if you compared the contributions that the empath is giving: they are putting way more effort, concern and selflessness than the sociopath is capable of contributing.

thanks again for your insight. It is very interesting.

M.E.:

Yeah, I see your point. I guess to a certain extent we are just talking past each other. It's amazing how varied the human race is. I love raw oysters, while a lot of people think that is wrong on many levels. I'm not saying my love is better or worse than yours, I am just saying it is different, some people might prefer it, others might hate it. The fact that we are so varied could be an evolutionary accident as you seem to suggest, or there could be some more valid reason, as I believe. It would be very difficult to prove either way, and I'm fine with that.

Love-ish (part 2)

A response to my reply, from yesterday's post. (The reader requested specifically that I not edit the exchange for publication):

Ok I can see why someone with this disorder would want to feel love and have a relationship, but would you say that the type of love they are feeling is purely a selfish type of love. If we are going to accept the diagnosis of what sociopathic personality disorder is, then this person cannot form attachments and they cannot have the depth of emotion that would create real love (not because they don't want to, but because they are just not able too), and without real love and true concern (empathy) for the other person, would a relationship ever truly work? So, if they want love they want it for how it makes them feel, correct? Falling in love, making someone feel loved, and having it mirrored back to you is euphoric, and probably a high that most can see as a form of power to use. Maybe this is the attraction some sociopaths see in pursuing relationships. It is solely about what they are getting out of it. They cannot give back what is needed to make the other person fulfilled in terms of emotions. It would think it would end up being a selfish, one-sided relationship. Am I wrong?

M.E.:

I think all love has an element of selfishness to it, and that all love has an element of selflessness as well. What is real love? If sociopaths can't feel "real love," is their love valid? Empaths try this argument on me all the time. I think it is elitist. It is like the French complaining that the Chinese don't know how to drink wine because they cut it with lemon-lime carbonated beverages. Relationships with sociopaths seem to work. It's hard maybe, and it certainly is different, but people seem to be able to pull it off. I don't necessarily disagree with you on why sociopaths choose to love in the first place, but I think to say it is selfish and one-sided would be like saying traditional marriage of husband breadwinner and wife homemaker is one-sided -- maybe it is, but which is the beneficiary?