Friday, January 29, 2010

Manic depression and sociopathy (part 1)

A reader writes:
Been reading your blog, sociopaths have a pretty interesting take on life. I noticed you did interviews with empaths and some people with mental disorders. I used the search function and couldn't find your take on manic depressives/bipolar people. I myself am manic depressive and although it seems completely counter intuitive it feels like there are some similarities with things sociopaths go through (or at least I think there are similarities, I could be way off base). For example, at certain times I have the ability to completely shut off and my emotions and either feel nothing or next to nothing. My husband finds this troubling when after an argument and he's bawling his eyes out and I just stare at him blankly. This also occurs when I'm severely depressed, but when I reach those stages I don't feel pain anymore, it's just being completely numb, lacking energy or any motivation. Nothing seems worth the effort and it's not because I feel sorry for myself, there's no rationalizing it, complete and utter apathy. This usually occurs in a cycle, like a sin curve (my emotional states that is).

Then comes the idea of masks, I think you may have touched on it but my memory is spotty. When I am manic I can play any role, playing with people, mind games and the such is incredibly appealing. When I am near depression but not all the way there as I've mentioned below I've developed the ability to completely hide myself from others. I can be out getting ice cream with my daughter while we're sitting across from each other at a picnic table look straight into her eyes and smile while wishing for a hot bath with razor blades. I suppose in my eyes (again I could be wrong) it's that we're achieving the same ends in this case, although our motivations are completely different, or maybe not.

Of course when I'm near 0 on a sin curve, I'll call that "normal" I function more or less like your average person should. (cont.)

Monday, January 25, 2010

Love-ish (part 3)

Reader:
Agreed that all love has both selfishness and selflessness involved. However, LASTING love eventually evolves from selfishness into selflessness, as it becomes essential to care more about the other person than you do about your own needs. I believe real love contains elements of sincere attachment and commitment that make people stay in the relationship "through the good times and the bad, through sickness and health" etc. Real love is truly defined by how strong it is when life gets hard. Anyone can love when things are easy. That being said, I do not think it is elitist, it just is hard to do. You say that relationships with sociopaths seem to work. Do they? I value your blog and your need to bring society into a better understanding of what a sociopath feels and deals with in a world full of "empaths", however I think we would be hard pressed to find a relationship involving a sociopath that is truly functional (unless maybe it is with another sociopath). The sociopath of course believes the relationship is fine. They are getting what they need from it. But you ask the empath on the other end of the relationship if they are really happy and feeling fulfilled and I doubt you would hear a positive response. In most cases I am sure eventually that relationship is going to come to an end, with the empath feeling like they wasted their time. I have read many of your posts. I remember you writing that you are able to feel love. You have love for your mother, but it is more of just an "outlet" of yourself as she is your mother so it makes sense that you love her. You also wrote that you feel love for people in your life, but it is love "at that time"...and also can turn to intense hate within the same day. Lasting love is more than acting on impulse in the moment. It would appear that "at that time" kind of love does not involve any commitment. No commitment is feeling no attachment. No attachment is at the core of a sociopaths disorder. And a feeling of non attachment is never going to make an empath feel like the relationship is a good one. I do not doubt that empaths, those of us who are not aware yet of who they are actually involved with, or are in denial, or just have low enough self esteems that they do not feel worthy of something better...these empaths might be willing to go through the hardships of a relationship with a sociopath but I am convinced that if you compared the contributions that the empath is giving: they are putting way more effort, concern and selflessness than the sociopath is capable of contributing.

thanks again for your insight. It is very interesting.
M.E.:
Yeah, I see your point. I guess to a certain extent we are just talking past each other. It's amazing how varied the human race is. I love raw oysters, while a lot of people think that is wrong on many levels. I'm not saying my love is better or worse than yours, I am just saying it is different, some people might prefer it, others might hate it. The fact that we are so varied could be an evolutionary accident as you seem to suggest, or there could be some more valid reason, as I believe. It would be very difficult to prove either way, and I'm fine with that.

Sunday, January 24, 2010

Love-ish (part 2)

A response to my reply, from yesterday's post. (The reader requested specifically that I not edit the exchange for publication):
Ok I can see why someone with this disorder would want to feel love and have a relationship, but would you say that the type of love they are feeling is purely a selfish type of love. If we are going to accept the diagnosis of what sociopathic personality disorder is, then this person cannot form attachments and they cannot have the depth of emotion that would create real love (not because they don't want to, but because they are just not able too), and without real love and true concern (empathy) for the other person, would a relationship ever truly work? So, if they want love they want it for how it makes them feel, correct? Falling in love, making someone feel loved, and having it mirrored back to you is euphoric, and probably a high that most can see as a form of power to use. Maybe this is the attraction some sociopaths see in pursuing relationships. It is solely about what they are getting out of it. They cannot give back what is needed to make the other person fulfilled in terms of emotions. It would think it would end up being a selfish, one-sided relationship. Am I wrong?
M.E.:
I think all love has an element of selfishness to it, and that all love has an element of selflessness as well. What is real love? If sociopaths can't feel "real love," is their love valid? Empaths try this argument on me all the time. I think it is elitist. It is like the French complaining that the Chinese don't know how to drink wine because they cut it with lemon-lime carbonated beverages. Relationships with sociopaths seem to work. It's hard maybe, and it certainly is different, but people seem to be able to pull it off. I don't necessarily disagree with you on why sociopaths choose to love in the first place, but I think to say it is selfish and one-sided would be like saying traditional marriage of husband breadwinner and wife homemaker is one-sided -- maybe it is, but which is the beneficiary?

Saturday, January 23, 2010

Love-ish (part 1)

A conversation with a reader begins thusly: "Does sociopathic behavior in an individual come from intense feelings of rejection from childhood? Could the lack of feelings or attachments to anything or anyone be a defense mechanism? And if they truly cannot feel love in the true sense of the word, why do they seek and pursue relationships?" My response:
Sociopaths feel love, just differently. I guess it would be like asking, why would blind people ever watch TV? But they do, they enjoy it for different reasons than you might, and sociopaths too find something worthwhile in love and relationships, not surprisingly. I would actually be more surprised to learn that there was any person who was completely uninterested in having some sort of a meaningful relationship. (Except maybe schizoids.)

With regard to your other question, I think most people now believe that there is a genetic connection to sociopathy, but that gene can either be turned on or not by environmental factors, e.g., as a defense mechanism, just like you say.

Thursday, January 21, 2010

Demons

Explaining the influence of demons in Rio de Janeiro gang warfare:
Pastor Sidney explained how it was he could see demons: "People who are possessed tend to look at a fixed point and have a coldness around them -- their eyes don't blink. The persons themselves are absent." Whenever he saw them, he would "ask Jesus to take them, and the angels come and grab the demon from them." It also helped, he said, to invoke the name of the Lord. "Traditional religious faith helps ground you, as do demonstrations of God's power."
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