Famous sociopaths in history: Nancy Wake

From a reader (quoting extensively from other sources, not always notated in quotation marks):

I was recently reading about a spy in WWII named Nancy Wake, known as The White Mouse, and it struck me that this woman shows many of the classic traits of a sociopath. Im not sure if you have heard of her before, so here is a not so brief summary:

"The youngest of six children of Charles and Ella Wake, with the next eldest eight years ahead of her, she always felt a little isolated from the rest of the family, with the sole exception of her filmmaker father, whom she adored, but was devastated when, at the age of four, her father abandoned the family – an event believed to have sparked her rebellious nature and fearsome temper. The rest of Wake's childhood was spent waging a kind of guerilla war against her mother and, to a lesser extent, her siblings, which ended only when she ran away at 16."

With $300, she moved to New York and was soon working as a freelance journalist, which led her to Paris where she apparently led a wild life:
"She once described herself — as a young woman — as someone who loved nothing more than “a good drink” and handsome men, “especially French men.” She found work as a freelance journalist, and managed at the same time to live “Parisian nightlife to the full,” according to Mr. FitzSimons. By 22 this globetrotting Aussie/Kiwi was living in Paris, working as a freelance newspaper journalist during the day and  then rocking out at the hottest Parisian nightclubs after dark.  A tough-as-hell chick who could rarely be found without a double gin and tonic in her hand and designer cosmetics in her purse, Wake had a reputation for drinking hard, telling dirty jokes, and then getting a tall, dark, and handsome Frenchman pick up the tab for her. "

After being sent to Germany to interview Hitler, Wake developed a "deep, deep hatred" of Nazis and devoted her life to eliminating them. She married a rich industrialist, and together they helped rescue refugees, spy on Germans, and smuggle information across enemy lines. She used her charms to manipulate German soldiers:
"Against the suspicions of German guards manning the various checkpoints she had to get through, she regarded her beauty as her principal shield and played upon it to the maximum, openly flirting with many Germans. Using her charms and a native cunning, she was so successful with the Resistance that she soon graduated to taking groups of refugees - often downed Allied pilots or Jewish families - between safe houses until they reached the base of the Pyrenees, where other guides would get them across."

She was soon on Gestapos most wanted list, and after her husband was tortured and killed by Nazis trying to find her, she waged open war against the Nazis, leading a resistance movement of 7,000 men against them.

"In April 1944 she parachuted into France to coordinate attacks on German troops and installations prior to the D-Day invasion, leading a band of 7,000 resistance fighters.  Her chute got stuck in a tree on the way down, and when the local French resistance leader said some asinine thing like "I wish all trees grew such beautiful fruit," or something equally cheesy she gave him the finger and said (in perfect French no less), "Don't give me that French shit." In order to earn the esteem of the men under her command, she reportedly challenged them to drinking contests and would inevitably drink them under the table. But her fierceness alone may have won her enough respect: During the violent months preceding the liberation of Paris, Wake killed a German guard with a single karate chop to the neck, executed a women who had been spying for the Germans, shot her way out of roadblocks and biked 70 hours through perilous Nazi checkpoints to deliver radio codes for the Allies."

"With her coiffured hair and red lipstick, Wake was the epitome of glamour, but when she was dropped into occupied France she became a fighting force.
Even without a weapon, she could be deadly. During one raid she reportedly killed an SS guard with her bare hands to prevent him raising the alarm. "She is the most feminine woman I know until the fighting starts. Then she is like five men," one of her French colleagues recalled."

Despite the violent nature of her heroic deeds, she displayed no hint of remorse over killing.

"Afterwards she would declare: "In my opinion, the only good German was a dead German, and the deader, the better. I killed a lot of Germans, and I am only sorry I didn't kill more."

"Lady was ice-cold.
Known as "The White Mouse" by her German pursuers, Wake spent much of the war as an Allied operative in France, helping escaped POWs and others wanted by the Germans flee to Spain, running messages between the British military and French resistance — and, of course, choking the life out of various Nazis.

"I was not a very nice person," Wake said once, according to the Times. "And it didn't put me off my breakfast.""

"She returned several times to live in Australia, making unsuccessful attempts to get elected to parliament, but had an uneasy relationship with the country of her childhood, feeling unrecognised and underappreciated. This led her to refuse decorations from the Australian government; with characteristic bluntness, she said they could "stick their medals where the monkey stuck his nuts". In February 2004, she relented and was made a Companion of the Order of Australia.

Naturally, not giving a crap about awards and stuff like that, Wake sold off her medals and lived off the money for the rest of her life.  When asked why the hell she sold a trio of Croix de Guerres, she said, "There's no point in keeping them… I'll probably go to hell and they'd melt anyways."
Wake found post-war life uneventful. "It's all been so exciting … and then it all fizzled out. I had a very happy war," she said. FitzSimons told Australian radio: "She was a woman who was always a hair-trigger from being in a rage … and that rage within her was wonderful during the war, [but] it could be problematic when the war was over. She was a force of nature."

"Her volatility and bursts of rage, which had been so effective in the war, did not stop with the peace. A lot about Wake was ill-suited to regular civilian life and she was keenly aware of it. ''After the war ended, it was dreadful because you've been so busy and then it all just fizzles out,'' she told The Australian in 1983.

"In an interview a decade ago, at the age of 89, Wake appeared to have lost none of her fighting spirit. "Somebody once asked me: 'Have you ever been afraid?' Hah! I've never been afraid in my life," she said."

"“I was never afraid,” she said. “I was too busy to be afraid.”

By most accounts, Ms. Wake never figured out what to do with her life after the war.

She settled, the best that she could, for being a homemaker for her second husband, a garrulous former RAF pilot by the name of John Forward, whom she had met in the mid-1950s and who took up a position as a mid-ranking executive with an Australian textiles firm. Generally, the two were very happy together and John came to cope with being with a woman who was only ever a hair-trigger away from high hilarity or high-octane fury."

Gaslighting or cognitive distortion?

From a reader:

i am in a 7 year long relationship with a sociopath. he does not call himself a sociopath, but does joyfully brag that he is a full on crazy person & that it will be the reason he will be a millionaire, world leader, famous etc. he is very controlling and emotionally abusive, but also tries his best to be kind to me and show positive emotions. i will not be leaving him as most would suggest i do. i own that i am in an unhealthy relationship, and that i will feel more pain from leaving him than i will from staying with him. we both work to be happy as hard as it is. we argue a lot which is expected when a sane person is trying to have a successful loving life with a crazy person. the arguments stem from his cruelty, dishonesty, drunken blackouts to the smallest nothing that i can't even believe it caused an argument. one thing is constant though, every argument turns him vicious. screaming, threatening, punching holes in walls, breaking up with me (with no intention to do so) the works. he will say and do things, then a moment later, vehemently denies having said or done these things and calling me delusional or a lier. he seems so convinced that these things did not happen or were not said, he acts offended and hurt and very angry that i would accuse him of these things. possibly because he's said them in heated un warranted anger, then realizes how crazy or cruel he sounded and is embarrassed. i don't know the reason, but its surely not that he doesn't remember these things, he knows they happened. it is impossible to resolve an issue when the whole discussion turns into me working like hell to get him to admit what has just happened. knowing that they happened and that he is trying unsuccessfully to manipulate me does not resolve anything. many women in abusive relationships roll up in a ball and submit. that would reduce the frequency of the disagreements. however i do not do that. i fight for myself and what is true, and how i should be treated in a certain way. i definitely match him in battle, though its exhausting and feels foolish to entertain.

 i really am striving to have a productive situation that i can live with and be happy. this can not happen if i can't find a way around the habitual gas lighting. any advice would be appreciated.

M.E.:

It actually doesn't sound like he is gaslighting you so much as that he is delusional. He doesn't sound self-aware. A lot of people with personality disorders suffer from a belief that their reality is objective Reality, their truth is objective Truth, no matter what evidence to the contrary is presented to them. There's someone like this in my own life. For him, he doesn't believe that he creates reality per se, or that he controls reality in any way. He actually believes that there's an objective reality that he cannot control and that everybody's experience of reality is different, but he believes that his experience of reality, for whatever reason, happens to be unfailingly accurate to the objective reality. (I feel like this belief is also related in an odd habit of his to believe that he is not making choices in his life, but that he is just fulfilling a predestined course of action in direct reaction to things he has no control over. Conveniently, this means that he is also not responsible for anything he does, because he is never able to choose any other choice then the one he chose. The logic is very Sam Harris to the illogical extreme with a side of hindsight bias -- i.e. if he is the person he is, and if the person he is had a mind that naturally thought the thoughts that naturally led to that particular action, it must be that he had no other option or choice but to engage in that action. This link calls this an external control fallacy.)

But all people with personality disorders often (always?) suffer from cognitive distortions (I do too, of course because I am personality disordered, although I have gotten a lot more aware of it and consequently hopefully better). See this link for common examples of reality distortion, also here. The problem with this particular trait in a relationship is that it can have the same effect as gaslighting because this stuff is truly through-the-looking-glass crazy making. You will feel like you're losing your mind because your boyfriend's reality is so different from what you perceive to be reality and he is so insistent about it being true. I think that being in this type of situation could make anybody crazy, and it certainly historically has made plenty of people crazy. I myself feel like I have taken a small detour to crazy town when I talk to people who present with this trait. Sometimes it is particularly maddening, e.g. when the person says things about me, my profession, my philosophical or spiritual beliefs, or other things that I identify more closely with than others. I doubt that you'll be able to handle this constant onslaught to your sanity without incurring significant damage to your psyche or without intensive therapy. For something related, you could look up videos or writings about verbal abuse, which has a similar effect on people.

And further thoughts for the blog audience:

This issue is particularly relevant right now because I've been seeing a lot of this on here recently. It's a variation of what I tweeted recently -- there are a lot of uses for reason, but changing people's cognitive distortions is not one of them. I have tried a million times to reason with people in my life who suffer from cognitive distortions, but I have never been successful. All I have seen work is extensive therapy by someone incredibly qualified who is somehow able to teach them to first recognize that they aren't happy with the way they deal with the world, second want to figure out if there's something they could be doing better, third identify specific patterns of negative beliefs (i.e. cognitive distortions) in their life, fourth get them to consistently detect instances in which they do this, and possibly finally (and by this time they probably don't even need it because they've already reached the right conclusions themselves) -- reason.

The person I know with the belief that he is the only one consistently seeing reality for what it is just recently confessed to me that he now recognizes that just because he feels something doesn't mean that his feeling necessarily reflects reality. (The first link calls this "emotional reasoning": "We believe that what we feel must be true automatically. . . You assume that your unhealthy emotions reflect he way things really are — 'I feel it, therefore it must be true.'".) Wow, that's amazing. If he can get there, there's hope for everyone, but not likely via well-meaning others trying to show them the error of their ways by trying to rationalize with them.

Why is it that we can pass by someone crazy on the street or on a bus or train and just mentally give them a pass but the seemingly normal people with cognitive distortions drive up our blood pressure and drive us crazy too? Maybe because the crazy person is obviously crazy, so we just write off their crazymaking behavior without internalizing any of it. But the more you learn to recognize cognitive distortions in others, the more they become obviously crazy too, which hopefully leads to less craziness in you. 

Addict or sociopath?

Some people ask if they or an addict who they know is a sociopath. My understanding is that addicts often display the characteristics of sociopaths without being able to actually be diagnosed as sociopaths because it's not a permanent condition (e.g., recover from the addiction, recover from the sociopathic traits). I don't have any real experience abusing drugs, so it's hard for me to know when someone is just an addict or is also a sociopath?

From a reader:

Convinced that I may be a sociopath, or at least have some type of antisocial personality disorder, I've come to you for further analysis. I've come to the point where I can recognize patterns in my behavior, past and still occurring, that can be identified with sociopathic traits & characteristics. I’ve noticed my inability to empathize with my mother, or any of my relatives, and my lack of interest in others ideals or their emotions. In later infancy and early adolescence, I was described to be abusive and manipulative of my mother/sister during my father's absence while incarcerated. I would physically abuse my sister and take advantage of my mother’s tenderness and inability to deny me of almost any privilege. My father's arrival into my life brought structure and discipline within the household. I was very hateful of my father, initially, but respected his ability to deliver swift punishment with complete rationality. We had a lot in common which lead to me favoring him over my mother. But I still persisted in my mischief. In elementary school, I made friends easily and could band them together to accompany me in my nefarious schemes. It came to the point where my father couldn't afford to leave work anymore to beat me himself, so he gave consent to certain instructors and faculty members to do the job for him in his stead.

I grew fond of my father but still felt emotional unattached to him. For example, when he was hospitalized in the result of a stabbing during a street fight, I wasn’t very emotionally receptive and didn’t feel any sense of urgency for his well-being. During the hospital visit, I feigned sadness in order to seem concerned. My attempt to fool him wasn’t successful. When he saw me he immediately knew that my tears lacked sincerity and smiled at me while lying on his bed, with his abdomen stapled together.

 I think that because of him and his almost militant approach at disciplining me, I turned out to be much more tame than what I could've been. As I grew older, I used lies and manipulation in order to avoid being beaten. Although it wasn't foolproof and it ended up contributing to my family members deeming me generally untrustworthy, I was able to maneuver around and stave off immediate punishment.

In high school, I was extremely conflicted. My father wasn't around anymore, due to his past criminal charges coming back to haunt him. I was then elected to be the man of the house and was expected to fill his shoes. I tried to emulate him and his role as a diligent, selfless, and stern family man. That proved to be very difficult. In some ways, it was easy to fashion myself after him. He could be extremely calculative. In addition, my apathy could be mistaken for benevolent qualities similar to his selflessness and generosity. Ultimately, I felt inadequate in my role. My responsibilities also hindered me from indulging in the typical activities that a normal teenager would have been able to. 

I also felt a slight betrayal from my mother, who couldn't accept my general impartial attitude towards my duties and at the fact that she was very intrusive of my privacy. Whatever discoveries she made as a product of her habitual prying, she became more and more aware of my true nature. I simply did what I felt like doing, as long as I felt it didn't have a detrimental affect on others. I believed that it was justified. She had hopes for me to grow into a loving and compassionate son who was considerate of other’s feelings, and primarily of hers’. I thought of her as a mess, at times. She could be very emotional and it didn't have a pull on me. She would question my love for her but I would say things like I loved in my own way. I feel that I do love her as my mother but am not very fond of her as a person. I grew to be very close to my sister. I hold her very dear to me, despite our past violent relationship.

Upon graduating from high school, I was accepted to one of the best design schools in America. I chose to major in illustrations because I was very good at it. After completing my freshman year, on the slow track of a part time student, I felt quite passionless about drawing in general. Around that time, I became unemployed and was earnestly looking for work. I took to craigslist and went for a rather unordinary job for someone of my background and stature. Growing up middle class, others felt that it was odd that I felt compelled to sell $2,000 vacuum as a cold call, door-to-door salesman, in trailer parks to boot. I didn’t know exactly why at the time, but I didn’t have any qualms with the work and had a rather positive outlook. During that time period, I believe that I was at my most sociopathic. I played the role of a seasoned salesman well, as I went from trailer to trailer pitching a sale to people who were obviously financially unfit to buy a vacuum for the price of a used car. People were often forced to buy with the alternative option to finance the payments on the vacuum. The money was terrible, due to the company being an actual pyramid scheme, but for some odd reason that did not concern me. My mother recommended that I should find work elsewhere, after a month. 


 Working in the environment that I did, I fell into recreational drug use. I began to experiment with MDMA and LSD to rouse myself or try to gain some direction, because I fell into apathy. It ended up being quite detrimental. I started to feel emotions and couldn't understand them. I started to feel extremely alienated and off kilter. I felt weak and had numerous episodes of uncontrollable sobbing. Sometimes from depressions, anxiety or deep joy. I did not like it. Going to raves and partying every weekend was also taking a toll on my school life and finances. I stopped for a short period of time and turned to drinking. I felt much more I control while intoxicated from alcohol. I also started to experiment with narcotics (Xanax, Adderall, Oxy, Cocaine). They induced almost the same feeling. Oxy and Xanax put me into a state of dismissive drowsiness that I am not very fond of. Cocaine and Adderall were almost identical in how they induced energetic highs with a trace of overzealous aggression, when tapped into. All of these drugs gave me the ability to draw off of a spectrum of emotions that I normally couldn't. I appreciated it, but wasn’t fully convinced that they were going to be beneficial to my quest of self-discovery. They eventually led to me being kicked out from under my mother's roof and my current homelessness. Nevertheless, I am complacent. Without a working vehicle, I am unable to work as my position of delivery driver. I am currently stationed near a well-populated and budding town where I have access to nearly free food and Wi-Fi. I spend my days reading books in a local cafe that I steal from Barnes and Nobles. On weekends, I spend my time in the company of my female familiars that I've met during my drug and alcohol filled adventures with friends. My family does not know of my homelessness only because I feel that it will complicate things if they did.

Pursuer of Potential

This was an interesting comment on an old post (including a lot of traits that many of you will recognize -- but I'm always a little surprised and even a little bit charmed to see them so consistently in so many strangers):

Harvard Student, Wealth Manager, Pursuer of Potential
Parameters for this comment:
I've never publicly shared my ideas on the subject. I won't be proofing this since it's anonymous. I'm sure this comment will be very self-centric, as it will be a break from academic writing. If I offend you, this probably isn't the best thread to cry me a river on so try to enjoy a different perspective.

So I’ve been told that I am compartmental, principled sociopath, extremely objective, a/o very manipulative. In short, I began a career in financial services, study at Harvard, am in a 5+ year relationship and I've never truly confided in anyone. 

It seems the only thing I genuinely recognize as off limits is targeting innocence. Since I was in grade school I would prey on bullies or tough/popular/show-off classmates because I viewed them as being game to compete against others; especially if they unjustly picked on others. Innocence though, goes for most children, naïve house pets, and highly sheltered adolescence/adults. In these cases, I view the subjects/people as defenseless or helpless. I've been viewed as empathetic by my family because at a young age I learned how to read emotions/truth/lie from other people so as to emulate them when I went to "sell," something. This was not crying when I didn't get a desired toy/candy rather, stealing it next time without mention to not raise suspicion or to barter with my mom. I found success at 8 years of age by borrowing a rake, shovel, or lawn mower and going door to door. I had all the toys/candy I wanted by half ass-ing child labor to charge $25. I simply made a poster for a fund raiser and taped it to my mower. I even got called out when parents didn't like that their kids did the mowing for me and took home $7 while I kept the difference. When confronted, I simply told them that they ensured their kid wouldn’t work with me again.

My principles have been established over the years. I realized I needed them when I was in kindergarten. I hung out with high school kids in my neighborhood in exchange for doing things that they needed. This included being the one to get hoisted in to windows to unlock a house from the inside or start fights with other kids when there was a stupid dispute. The worst thing I remember doing was defending my "friends" from another kids' large dog using the chain from my bike. It was at this point when I decided that I would use principles to decide what is "right." For the most part, risk and reward are the biggest drivers. It doesn't matter what it is or at least I haven't met a decision that's made me feel uncomfortable. Is my risk being matched with equal or greater reward? If not than no-go, no matter what. I do, however, enjoy a hero or even god complex. I've saved a person from drowning, dodged a car accident only to pull off and rescue them from a flaming car (which did NOT explode...). I enjoy holding the high level of importance to one's life and then giving it to them so that they feel fortunate. I suppose a sociopath who saves people isn't unheard of, but I'm in no rush to save starving kids from labor in under developed countries. In my opinion, under waged child laborers in those countries are turning a buck for their family as opposed to competing with the other children begging on the streets. In my belief, there is a choice and while companies could give more money to the labor, I know I would choose the most effective option. Until the customer demands it and it becomes as important as the fabric used to make the shirt, then the company should be as lean as possible. (off-topic)

I've come a long since I was in grade school.
I've been in a relationship now for 5+ years and I haven't had any tendency to harm anyone since I was younger. Back then I never went further than breaking an arm or hand in a brawl or fight along side my friends. The rush was good but part of me looks forward to me finding a legal outlet to get a better rush. Growing up, I've experimented with guys and girls sexually and I could honestly go for either. It's really just about the fun of learning how each other tick and triggering that tick. I decided to stick with females for a couple reasons. It's been easier to blend in with a woman, and my fiancé pushes me to do more. Also, I enjoy aiding the damsel in distress act. What's curious to me is while I've never cared about actually helping others, I find enjoyment in taking on that "helping" role in the relationship. Also, I find that I've never truly confided in anyone. This goes for significant others, family, and friends alike. People who know me, know a certain version of me that I've created to best suit my circumstances and appear like a hero or champion. Mentors have identified this characteristic as being my most valuable trait because it will be most useful to me becoming successful professionally as well as managing the personal issues. 

Recently, I've relocated away from friends and family to follow this girl (5+ years) and it's starting to be recognized that I don't keep up communication with anyone. Simply, it's been a relief to not have to be close to these people and have to keep up with what's making them tick. While I recognize that it's been hard for some of those people, I have no urge to change what's been going on. Often times, when my fiancé and I run in to a rough patch I wonder what I would do should we ever break it off. When I met her, I was in the process of opening a bail bonds business so that I could essentially have a license to hunt the ultimate prey when they jump bail. I didn't have a desire to hurt people, but I have always enjoyed the hunt. I think many people share this urge. 

While I've never been religious, my family is Christian/Catholic. As a teen, I opened up to a family friend, and he gave me a copy of "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. I highly recommend it to anyone deciding or refining the principles by which they live their life. This book along with the study of different religions has taught me the power of prayer, habit, attitude, and how to obsess over something to make it happen. This is truly the only use of religion in my opinion. That is, furthering your potential through belief in something bigger than one's self. I am now completing my Bachelor's through Harvard and work in wealth management. Both things that I don't think I would have done without principles and setting goals to align with a woman from a "comfortable style of living." For me, it's since been all about furthering my potential and soon raising a child which will challenge my success. These thoughts and ideas have me puzzled. I live a life which has ALWAYS been positive and "glad." I refuse to let anything get me down, though I fake being bothered to those around me show that I care about something, as it seems that's what's needed to show caring... (makes no sense, and I think it's a stupid way to be...) But what I do seem to care about, even from a kid was one day reaching a point where I've dramatically climbed the socio-economic ladder (increased my class), and having a child (son or daughter) who challenges my success through their own (almost like a worthy adversary). A fantasy of mine would be to meet an exact twin of mine and square off. 

I'm interested in seeing if anyone else shares my views or wishes to challenge them. I'd also be interested in thoughts or replies which challenge my values.

Why/how delayed gratification?

This NY Times article (You're so Self-Controlling) discusses (and unfortunately confuses?) the difference between failure to delay gratification based on (1) a lack of self-control versus (2) a perception that the future reward is too uncertain to wait.

For instance, recent research recreated the classic marshmallow experiment done with children (the children could eat one marshmallow right away or could wait to get another one). Researchers wondered whether the choice to eat or wait was really the result of a lack of self-control, or whether the children were just unsure whether the second marshmallow would come in a timely manner. Performing a similar experiment, they found that children who believed the experimenter to be unreliable would wait only 3 minutes for the second marshmallow before giving up and giving in, whereas children who believed the experimenter to be reliable would wait as long as 10 minutes before giving up. So is it all about ascertaining the uncertainty of the future rewards? Because in the original marshmallow experiment, the researchers followed the children into young adulthood and found that the children who could wait longer tended to be more successful, which suggests that their ability to delay gratification can't just be the uncertainty of future rewards.

It's an interesting question for sociopathy because sociopaths are notoriously impulsive? Which has led some to believe that sociopaths can never plan ahead or stick to any particular plan. Taken to the extreme, this would suggest that most sociopaths wouldn't even be able to graduate grammar school, and yet some manage to become CEOs of major companies, political leaders, or hit other high levels of skill or achievement. Personally speaking, I have managed to perform very well at certain long term tasks, including excelling in school, at work, and managing to fully fund my retirement. How? Maybe the answer lies in what we mean by "impulsive" and what relationship impulsivity has with how we view will-power. From the NY Times article:

[T]he ability to delay gratification has traditionally been seen in large part as an issue of willpower: Do you have what it takes to wait it out, to choose a later — and, presumably, better — reward over an immediate, though not quite as good one? Can you forgo a brownie in service of the larger reward of losing weight, give up ready cash in favor of a later investment payoff? The immediate option is hot; you can taste it, smell it, feel it. The long-term choice is far cooler; it’s hard to picture it with quite as much color or power.

In psychological terms, the difference is typically seen as a dual-system trade-off: On one hand, you have the deliberative, reflective, cool system; on the other, the intuitive, reflexive, hot system. The less self-control you have, the further off and cooler the future becomes and the hotter the immediate present grows. Brownie? Yum.

But if a sociopath's rage tends to be cold-hearted rather than hot-headed, could it be that sociopaths also respond to different stimuli for impulse control than normal people do? Perhaps that they both manifest an unusual degree of impulsivity in some aspects of their life and amazing self-control in others? Maybe sociopaths feel cooler about things that often seem hot to other people. Or maybe it's because we can take future events and make them seem hotter? I feel like that is at least sometimes true of me, that I can imagine my future self vividly enough that I feel some of the pleasure of the delayed gratification in that moment that I'm delaying it. 

A sociopath's love story (part 1)

I thought this was an interesting story from the comments:

Introduction: What follows was originally a response I posted on a forum where the topic of interest was "What do sociopaths seek in relationships? The need to control to keep someone around is for some purpose...what is that."

I came up with this reply to another response I read that was written by a woman who is in a relationship with a sociopath. She was irrate with some of the other posts that people put on the forum suggesting that sociopaths "are the definition of evil" and that "the world would be a much better place if they would all eat a bullet." This was her post:

"You say these things as if a sociopath has any control over his/her mental illness. No one chooses this and it is a very hard life to live. My fiancee is a sociopath and I came here looking for some answers and possibly support but I found an ******* like you. YOU are what is wrong with the world. He hates himself everyday he wakes up and wishes he could be normal. He can't and I found a great person despite his mental deficiencies. I learn to live with them and love the man he is."

Now that is a story that actually makes me feel warm inside. No seriously, not kidding. I for one identify myself as a sociopath and have done research on whether such a person as a "good sociopath" exists, and some of the articles I've read and evidence I've found suggest that infact, yes they do. I struggled for a little while once I suspected myself of being a sociopath, and I won't bore you with the middle details, but now I embrace it. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt and make no attempt to harm an undeserving individual. But if for whatever reason my trust is broken with that person or group of people, I make it my mission to undermine them whenever possible. Surprisingly this occurs fairly infrequently, as I also tend to be a forgiving person (odd, I know) if the infraction isn't that severe.

The capacity to love is also something I question. Most websites will have you believe that sociopaths are incapable of love. I tend to disagree; I think there is a gray area. A "normal" human may experience love in a way that emphasizes intimacy and passion (i.e romantic love) , with commitment on the back-burner. A sociopath with a high intellect is constantly striving to better themselves, yearning for my power and knowledge in whatever way they can achieve it, usually at the expense of others. But what happens when that individual grows bored or tired of the ongoing power struggle that exists in our world. No matter what that person accomplishes, there will always be someone that is richer, smarter, sexier, has a more beautiful wife, essentially more powerful than they are. An intelligent, rational thinker may come to the conclusion that it's just not worth it anymore and my explore other ways to live their life. So what about this "love" concept? Am I not allowed to experience it simply because I have been labeled a sociopath? To us, practically anything is possible so why not love? In the past we have probably been involved in relationships purely for the sex, money, status, or connections. First off, who doesn't like sex? Sex is great! But what else would a sociopath striving to experience love seek out?

Intimacy might be the toughest part to achieve considering that attachment is not something usually associated with sociopaths. Over time, the desire to experience love with another individual may cause one's attachment boundaries to fall, or at the very least weaken. And when a sociopath admits to him/herself that they actually feel some sort of attachment towards another, more barriers will begin to fall (usually consciously) in the interest of exploring this new feeling of attachment. Keep in mind that at any time during this process, the sociopath can detach themselves at will if they feel that there is a significant fault in their partner. Just remember that while true perfection can never be achieved, we always try to strive for it.

Passion may come a bit easier for us. It drives our sexual attraction towards one another. Like I said before, sex is great, something that I believe any human being would echo. If we think of passion and sex as a game then as a sociopath, one would want to win that game. In the real world, this translates to us putting forth enough effort in the interest of capturing the sexual attraction of our desired interest. If successful, a mutual attraction will be achieved and both parties will experience all the wonders of sex. If the sex starts to get boring, a sociopath may simply decide that the relationship isn't worth it anymore and walk out. But if it was good in the first place, why can't it stay that way? I will go back to my analogy of it being a game. If someone employs the same strategy every time (say in a game of chess), then the other player will start to notice and play accordingly. This will eventually get boring since one party will always know what the other is going to do, so they can essentially always "win the game" if they desire. Who likes to win without a challenge? It's just not that satisfying. This goes for sociopaths and non-sociopaths alike. So what do we do? We change up our strategy, we invent new ways of playing, or play a new, more exciting game entirely. "Gotta keep the sex interesting" is something I'm sure you've heard of before. A sociopath will realize this and do whatever they can to keep it interesting. If their partner is too conservative or traditional, then this will probably be a breaking point. Who likes boring sex that is, in all honesty, just a routine and plain no fun? What is the point of staying with someone if they are not willing to evolve with you? Passion is important for both individuals in the relationship.

Touchstone

Sociopaths and normal people are not so different. We're more like different breeds than different species. Different breeds of dogs can co-habitate and produce other great dogs, and I think sociopaths and other normal people can enjoy a similar result. Dogs have it easy, though. They have an owner or master to mediate differences between them, such as intervene during a useless fight. I think having a third party mediator would also help ensure a successful socio/normal relationship, whether business, family, or romantic. Perhaps a therapist or a trusted friend could fill this role – an enforcer that the sociopath will trust or face certain consequences, like the end of a relationship. This is, of course, assuming that the sociopath wants to be in the relationship, otherwise the threat of the ending the relationship is not much of a threat at all.

I think that the main problem in a socio/normal relationship is the inability to understand the point of view of the other. Little things aren’t dealt with, needs aren’t being met, misunderstandings abound. If there is some need that is consistently not being met or problem that is not being attended to in the relationship, it will eventually build up until it is blown out of all proportion, like medical diagnostic shows where people go crazy or blind because they have a copper deficiency. To even be able to pinpoint the problem, you have to be able to describe it accurately, which can be harder than it looks. I just read an article about it being difficult to diagnose appendicitis in small children because they aren’t able to accurately describe the locus of their pain – they don’t have the vocabulary or shared experiences with their doctor to do so. I think something similar happens with sociopaths and normals, that problems could be addressed if only they could first be identified. In the meantime, something so simple as a nutritional deficiency or small infection left untreated could easily compound into something serious or life threatening. These little problems can do so much damage, but many of them are very preventable if you knew what to look for.

I think this is why a knowledgeable third party would be crucial in helping the sociopath/normal get past the inevitable impasse -- someone with the emotional/intellectual equivalent of dynamite to blast through all of the bullshit. A touchstone to keep things from getting out of hand.

Somebody besides the cops.

Embracing your place on the sociopath spectrum

I think it's important to remember that most people think that sociopathic traits fall on a spectrum. There's nothing so totally different about a sociopath, it's more the suite of particular traits and the intensity of them that distinguishes them from the typical person. A reader tries to find his own place on the sociopathic spectrum:

I've just finished reading your book, and wanted to thank you for writing it. True honesty, combined with acute self-knowledge, is so rare in any autobiographical work that it's truly a gift when I come across a gem like this.

I suppose I should preface by saying that I'm not exactly sure if I'm a sociopath. I lack some of the characteristics you describe, such as sensation-seeking tendencies and fluid sexuality.

That being said, as I read your book I couldn't help but identify with so many parts of your story. You are basically me, cranked up to eleven. That is, I do seem to possess many of the traits you mention, just to a somewhat lesser degree than you do.

Power is the dominant lens through which I view social relations. I am sometimes scarily confident in my ideas, to the extent that people absorb the philosophies and biases I project almost by osmosis. Then I get sick of them because they've become intellectual carbon copies of "me". I have trouble believing in the concept of love or fixed identity since I have not had the experience of feeling them before - at least not in the sense most people seem to mean them.

Recently I had a dispute with a friend which ultimately ended the relationship. Typically enough, I held all the cards while she engaged in emotional outbursts, but despite the fact that I "won" in the end, I still felt disturbed because this was a relationship I wanted to keep, yet I could not see anything I would have done differently to salvage it.

Somehow, my friend had expected her emotional threats to have an impact on me that was different from what rationality and the balance of power would have suggested. This wasn't the first time something like this had happened, and it made me feel uncomfortable to realise I saw things in a way that was fundamentally different from other people, and that I could not seem to bridge that gap despite my best efforts to consider other strategic paths.

That's when I discovered your book.

I don't know if you realise what a gift you've given to people like me (us?). Reading it was like discovering an oasis in an alien desert. After months of searching for answers in literature, philosophy and even random internet forums and blogs, all of which seemed completely irrelevant to what I was going through, I found your Confessions to be a rare source of solace.

It's incredibly inspiring to read about someone older and more experienced than me, who seems to share the very traits I have, and who has nonetheless managed to create and (even more importantly) maintain a successful life and career.

I used to feel guilty about manipulating people, but more and more, I'm coming to understand its absolute necessity if I am to make my way in this world and achieve my goals. Your book has given me further assurance that this is not only necessary, but could in fact be seen as an ethical, charitable thing to do. If it makes empaths happy to be deceived in certain situations, where's the harm in that? Perhaps my real sin has been in being half-hearted about my schemes, instead of going full bore ahead and ensuring that I get away with them fully. Not just doing the minimum to get by (clumsily), but doing whatever is necessary for a graceful, virtuoso performance.

Thank you for casting light on an alternative system of ethics, a way of living life that works for people like me. I felt like I was reading a version of Seneca's "Letters" that was personally addressed to me.

I've never written to an author before, but you struck a chord with me.

Q&As (part 3)

(cont.)


Do all sociopaths have criminal tendencies?

There is a higher proportion of sociopaths in prison than there are normal people, but most sociopaths are not criminals by profession. Still, there are several traits that may dispose a sociopath to crime: impulsivity, lack of guilty feelings, and risk-seeking, among others.

Research shows that one in twenty-five people is a sociopath, yet most of us believe we’ve never met one. Are we just kidding ourselves? Are you able to spot them?

Statistically, everyone has met at least one sociopath; further, most people will have a closer encounter with a sociopath at some point in their lives, either as a friend, family member, or lover. Sometimes I can tell who they are. I find that many successful sociopaths will leave breadcrumbs for you to discover who they are, the thought being that only other sociopaths would recognize them. I think sociopaths, like serial killers, often have a yearning to be acknowledged for who they are. They want people to admire their exploits and that is hard to do when they are completely hidden, so they make small compromises.

You are a lawyer, and a professor at a law school. How has being a sociopath made you good at those jobs?

Some clients can be despicable people, but even they deserve adequate legal representation. The best lawyers are the ones who are able to detach themselves from emotionally or morally reacting to their clients’ stories. That has never been a problem for me. As for teaching, the best teachers present material in an even, unbiased way that will be the most palatable to the audience. My professors would often try to hide their own personal ideologies or incorporate other, foreign learning styles into their lecture plans. I do these things very naturally.

Do sociopaths have emotions? 

Sociopaths have emotions, but they do not give their emotions the same meaning that most people do. Many people believe that their emotions are expressions of “Truth”-- that if they feel hurt, it is because someone hurt them. Sociopaths experience their emotions largely without context. Except perhaps for anger, sociopaths do not experience a strong cause-and-effect relationship between reality and their emotions. For sociopaths, emotions have a disjointed, dreamlike quality. So a sociopath is not likely to make emotional decisions based on anything besides anger.

Striking a balance (part 1)

From a reader:

If you are the M.E. who has written a book that I saw on Amazon that will be out in May, kudos and I can't wait:-)

As for my story, I haven't read a story of a sociopath with which the outward narrative is identical, although the inner world is astonishingly familiar. I have always achieved (perhaps because I was around people who achieved and expected me to achieve) and was always considered attractive and successful until a few years ago when I switched off what I have always described as "auto-pilot" and started being conscious of my actions and (ultimately) my intentions. Now, just about everything I do is in an effort to downplay all of the characteristics that got me many things but left me feeling empty. I have achieved extremely rewarding levels of inner peace, but I'm lonely as hell and feel that I must achieve some balance or I will go mad. I have gone from being convinced that I was a borderline a few years ago when I was transitioning into self-awareness, to identifying as a narcissist, then as a psychopath. But I really, truly identify with your description of the sociopath. Everything you have documented on the website resonates, with the exception of some areas that I attribute to gender differences and perhaps a different stage of development.

At any rate, I am so very thankful for your work. But I do have a problem that poses an immediate concern for me. I hardly ever put myself in a situation in which I know I will encounter people to whom I will be attracted. And I am not typically attracted to very many people. But, when I do find myself in that space, all of the instincts that I work to isolate for their appropriate use take over -- especially when the person to whom I am attracted is in a committed relationship. To better articulate the force of my emotions, my journal entry from a recent encounter reads:

It probably is about control. It is surely about competition. I am competitive -- to a fault. But I've become quite masterful at not showing just how competitive I am. And, because it's not apparent and my veneer of choice is one of modesty, awkwardness, reservedness...in essence, vulnerability -- this usually results in my prey letting its guard down, allowing me the opportunity to come in like a thief who has been casing a joint for years. But I don't need years. When given the opportunity, I can do a lot of damage in a matter of days.

I have met my match. I have also been called out. But, inevitably, it all comes back to my feelings of superiority/inferiority. I'm better than this person you're with now. Or, even more to the point, I feel threatened in some way by the person you're with. And I like you. I want to show that you prefer me to your partner because, by doing so, I feel less threatened and inferior. I win.

It helps when I can justify my actions...when I feel I'm dealing with an asshole or an idiot or anything other than me...it helps me justify destroying something precious to define it as trash. To pick it apart...rip it to shreds. All for my own glory...for my vanity.

This is how I compete. I get on the playing field and commence to hiding the ball...stripping the game of its essence for the sake of competitive advantage. Of course, by the time I'm done, I'm the only one playing. So my "victory" is pyrrhic. And sad. I win big and lose even bigger. And the other players? They eventually catch on. And they either remain a team or join forces with others. But they cannot...will not...will NEVER commit to me. Because, no matter what I say, they know I'm committed to one thing and one thing only -- and that's to keep the ball hidden at all costs. Because as long as the ball is hidden and I'm the one doing the hiding, I'm in complete control. The minute that is no longer the case, the jig is up. The game is over. And I will walk away, defeated and deflated, because I never intended to play fair and can't risk a loss.


Experience has led me to the conclusion that I have a complete disregard for relationship boundaries. Although boundaries in general are a serious challenge for me, committed, romantic relationship boundaries are laughable to a fault. Intellectually, I know this is not a good thing...it sounds and feels a bit evil. But it's truly how I feel. I consider sexuality fluid. I don't know if it's from a place of jealousy or downright disrespect that, when I'm attracted to someone, it sends my sociopathy into hyperdrive. I mean, I become obsessed with possessing that person -- by hook or crook. Because I know what I like and I know I can get it...if only there wasn't this arbitrary commitment getting in my way.

This isn't so much an issue when a person is single. Hell, if the person is single and no other boundary (i.e. professional or sexuality) exists, I don't really know how I would react because I never seem to be in that position. But it becomes a heckuva destracting and destructive dilemma when it does rear its ugly head. I'm just wondering if this is common (especially in light of your post on socio sexuality) and if you have any guidance on how to counter this and other distractions due to boredom and/or tedium with the daily grind. Because, no matter how stimulating my affairs can be, I am always looking for the next thing at which to try my hand or dip my toe. I read your post on managing impulse control through distractions and redirection, but my understanding of coping in such a manner would lead to the issue of staying on task that I have to find myself having to constantly battle.

So, I could use a little help. How do I achieve balance between my need to control my sociopathic tendencies and my desire for healthy human interaction? How do I define healthy human interaction (and attraction and romance) for myself instead of simply recognizing what I lack in others and going after that, only to be left alone and unfulfilled? And how do I not allow fear of the mundane and discomfort with and mistrust of the conventional to keep me from performing and living in the present?

Dating other sociopaths

From a reader asking if it is a good idea for sociopaths to date other sociopaths:

My reasons for thinking we're a perfect match:

1)   Point: We need a challenge; everyone else is just too easy to win over. 

      Personal experience: When friends ask me how I do it, I shrug and say something banal because it is useless to try to explain. I feel that “game” is a skill that is fine-tuned throughout life, and even a lifetime of practice will not be of desired effect unless one already possesses an uncanny knack for reading body language, understanding weaknesses and individual needs, deciphering subliminal clues people unknowingly give off, and minimal emotional involvement. The ease at which I get what I want can actually be frustrating. I usually lose interest right after I acquire my target's complete attention and/or whatever I need from him. As I slowly let it go (so as not to burn bridges just in case I ever need that bridge again), I usually get some sort of a love confession. It’s a nice ego boost, but it honestly annoys me. Maybe it annoys me because it reminds me that I am incapable of feeling anything back. More likely, it’s because I have to waste my energy trying to let him down easy. Yet even more likely, it's probably because it reinforces the fact that I'm failing in my search for another of equal mindset. 

      Rationale: Dating another sociopath would be much more invigorating, as it would be a constant challenge for one another’s attention. As stated in Robert Greene’s “The Art of Seduction”, the most successful couples are those in which both people have mastered seduction. Without this, we get bored. We need a game, and an incompetent opponent is no fun after the first round. 

2)   Point: Save the emotional acts.

      Personal experience: I do manipulate, but I do recognize that if I want to remain in respectable societal standing, I have to play towards the emotions of the people I deal with. In my past relationships, I have had to fake what I am not feeling (i.e. pretend to comfort the guy when he’s upset, force myself to do the whole stare-into-each-other’s-eyes thing, convince him that I feel the same way, etc.) I’m not sure if there are other socios out there that feel this, but strong expressions of love and sadness are the two emotions I feel the most phony mimicking. I can literally feel the insincerity seeping out of my pores. Near the end of relationships my tolerance for such acts fizzles out, and I am accused of not caring…and since I generally don’t, he ends up hurt. While I have never felt sorrow or regret from this, I also do not want to leave a trail of broken hearts behind me. It’s essentially damaging my reputation and whatever connections I might need to make in the future. 

      Rationale: Tending to a lover’s emotions is tiresome and an enormous waste of time. Dating a sociopath would eliminate this rollercoaster of ridiculous emotional performances, and we would be able to live in drama-free harmony. Paradoxically, it would actually be a more honest relationship. 

3)   Point: We are attracted to those who are both book-smart and street-smart.

      Personal experience: I am attracted to intellect and power, and I assume that most other socios are as well. I’d rather marry an ugly but manipulative and successful genius than a sexy-as-hell but dumb-as-a-rock superstar. I saw that you mentioned the 48 Laws of Power. I cannot discuss this book with anyone I know. They lack the ability to see the rules as one entity from which we must derive certain principles, based on what our situation and goals are. I consider craftiness along with the ability to gauge situations and handle them with appropriate tact to be my definition of "street-smart". Lacking this quality is a complete turn-off for me. Being book-smart is also essential for my attraction to another; if I feel that I am capable of getting better grades on a factually-based exam than someone, I can't take them seriously. In my dealings with dating, I have come across only one person who has mastered both areas. I have insincerely told several people throughout my life that I "love" them (usually out of obligated reciprocation); I'm unsure of what my take on love is, but I can honestly say that what I feel for that one person is closer to love than what I've felt for anyone else.

      Rationale: There are plenty of book-smart people out there. There are also plenty of street-smart people. To have both is rare- and those who have both have an edge over everybody else. Most socios are able to recognize this potential for success, for they possess it within themselves. Naturally, we are attracted to excellence. Therefore, we are attracted to other sociopaths.

4)   Point: Being a "chameleon" can only be understood by others like us.

      Personal experience: I change my persona depending on what I need and who I am around. My groups of friends are eclectic and from all walks of life. In the past, when the guy I'm with at the time has met a group of friends who views me differently than he does, disaster ensued. "Who are you?", "You didn't tell me you used to do such-and-such things",  "I talked to so-and-so...I don't even know you", and so on. I am forced to purposely avoid letting my significant other meet certain people or hear certain things, in an attempt to maintain his view of who I am to him.

     Rationale: Who we date is usually a frequent escort. That being said, it is difficult for someone who isn't a social chameleon to get along with more than one group of your friends- or anyone who sees you in a different light than your lover does. Dating another sociopath means that he/she will easily fit into your eclectic groups of acquaintances. He/she will understand the necessity of mimicking and will be able to recognize when it is being done. He/she will also be able to mimick, which eliminates the "why do your friends hate me?" mediation and the "what was that all about?" explanations. He/she will understand that the "you" that you are pretending to be is just an act.

      I could probably continue, but I'll wait for some feedback first. Please do note that I am presenting this from theories I've derived from my own experiences. Also note that I am not referring to full-blown psychopaths, sadists, or those that might only date to extort things from/harm the other. Rather, I am referencing "mild" sociopaths like myself, who understand self-interest and are frustrated with dating simpletons.

Another (female) sociopath story

I like these stories from readers because I think they round out the picture of what a successful sociopath looks like. Plus they suggest, as some have alleged, that if m.e. and everyone else here like me aren't sociopaths, we do at least seem to be part of a discrete and identifiable subclass of something that is unusual enough amongst the general population to cause consternation in some and hatred in others. From a reader:

I happened along your blog by chance, I was actually searching for something completely mundane when I found it. (I can't remember what now) I didn't send you this email to confirm weather or not I am a sociopath. In fact, these labels mean nothing to me. I know what I am capable of. I know this is who I am and is an integral facet of my personality. However, this is only a single facet of my personality; it does not equal the whole of me.

Early in your blog you expressed a want to reach out to others like you; so this is me saying hi. Well I suppose I should start off by saying this; I'm a female and I can't say if I am a sociopath or not since I have never officially been diagnosed by a psychologist and I don't think my college psy1 professor counts even if she was a doctor. (she was always giving me the look) If I'm not then perhaps I'm simply an extremely cold bitch with a little bit of evil thrown in for a little extra spice.

Are sociopaths made? My childhood was spent in a middle to upper class neighborhood and my parents divorced when I was very young. I was a delinquent child but was rarely caught. My mother has socio/psychopathic tendencies. You see I never had to go out of my way to kill or torture the neighborhood animals because my mother would have me help her kill them. Her most casual method was by antifreeze; but generally she would put them in a plastic bag and shove them in the freezer while they were still alive. I was always the assistant in these small murders. Usually this is where people go, "Oh my god!" and blame her for my behavior. Looking back, I don't blame her. I think blaming her would be like blaming the parent for a gay child. Shit just happens.

In my early teens I was the odd girl out. It wasn't until I realized that certain behavior was unacceptable that I massed friends. When I 'came out of my shell', I was quite popular. This period is when I discovered I was a compulsive liar. Usually I lied for more attention or to get free stuff. I learned to manipulate everyone around me to my advantage. I even orchestrated the break up of a couple of relationships.

As a young adult I've come to a greater understanding of my powers of manipulation. College was easy because I could write most of my quirks off as 'too much partying'. During this time I also found myself to be completely lacking in grief. I don't know how to feel morose but have learned to mimic well enough. I only feel remorse if I fail at something, but not because I did something wrong. I usually know the difference between right and wrong and simply disregard the concept of wrong if it suits my purposes. This doesn't mean that I don't have bout's of altruism or go out of my way to completely ruin someones life. I only exert the effort to ruin if it will benefit me, as I am the only one that matters.

As an adult, I still find occasionally find myself on a learning curve. There are still new behaviors to learn. It doesn't happen often but I still get the 'your not right' look sometimes. This usually means that I missed something that should have been easily picked up on. In generally I keep a lose set of friends around that I have been known to drop on a whim. I don't usually keep them around if I don't need them. That said, I do have a couple of fellow socio/psychopath friends thatI remain close with. We seem to understand each other I suppose.

Murder is a topic that is broached on your blog a bit; the very thought puts a nasty taste in my mouth. Don't miss understand me here. I feel nothing for the death of another. I have my own hangups about cleanliness though. People are gross (blood borne diseases), yuk. That said, unless there is a legitimate life-or-death reason it seems pretty pointless to me. Unless you truly aspire to go to jail and marry Bubba/Bertha. Seriously, I have my 'violent' urges. They happen more frequently than I would like; but I have also learned how to constructively channel those negative energies. Anyone who is stupid enough to give into those baser instincts deserves what they get. Like curling up with Bubba/Bertha on a single cot in lock down.

Once my ex-girlfriend, with a scared look in her eye asked me, "Are you a sociopath?". I looked at her honestly for the first time and told her, "Probably." She at least attempted to understand what it was to be a void. I told her that I do experience joy, anger, lust, disappointment but they are extremely fleeting and only experienced in direct correlation to 'me'. As in MY joy, MY anger etc. I can not actually recall these emotions although I know I have had them. I can't remember what it felt like to feel that joy or sadness, only that it happened. I do know that certain activities or achievements will bring these feelings back to me. However, I do not feel at a loss without them. In fact, I truly do believe I am a 'happy' person.

I am bisexual, however I prefer women. I have been in my longest relationship for about a year and eight months now with a woman who is also 'feelings-deficient'. I don't know if I feel love so much as obsession and devotion. When I am in a relationship I adapt to what they want and expect, while at the same time manipulating and lying to suit my needs. However, much like your business analogy if I'm not getting a return on my investment I leave.

Anyway, thanks for the blog. It's been fun to go back and read the old posts. And it's always interesting to interact with others like myself. It's nice to take off the masks every once in a while and breathe.

Bad romance

I thought this was an interesting email from a reader regarding a recent relationship with a successful, powerbroker sociopath. There are a lot of stories about sociopaths wanting to scam or ruin the people they are in relationships with, but what about the sociopath who already seemingly has it all? What does s/he get out of the relationship? Could it be that a successful sociopath merely enjoys someone else's company? Or appreciates a fresh perspective, a companion who is "game" to try new things? And of course the question that has even less satisfactory answers, why would a "normal" person want to be with someone "abnormal" like that?

I am wondering if you can give me some insight. I've been involved with a man in a secretive relationship for two years. I'm married and so is he, although he strangely has a separate house in the same town. But pushing morality aside, here are the straight facts:

He is a highly successful and manipulative business magnate. He controls corporations, people, money, you name it. He has ruthlessly succeeded in business for two decades and while he no longer needs to work, he gets off on the associated drama. He loves the thrill of a fast take-over or money made quickly and effectively, regardless of what other corporation or career goes down in the process. He is the type of man you would never wish to cross in business or life. He's an eye for an eye kind of guy, and will do everything in his own power to see that 'justice' happens. Never with violence, but quietly and effectively.

He was married for almost ten years, but found he wasn't good at it. He has disowned his grown son. He is, however, loyal to a small group of friends he has known for many years. They have a roaring good time in business and life. Their unique views are similar.

But let's cut to the chase. He is the hottest, most passionate lover I have ever known. He is insanely erotic, but dominant at all times in the bedroom. Not S&M, but simply put, he is always in control. He holds intense eye contact during sex and is a deeply passionate kisser. But if not in the throws of passion, he is not remotely touchy-feely. He can be as cold as ice, but when he is hot, he's the hottest thing I've ever known - or will ever know.

I have struggled over the past couple of years to know whether he simply withholds emotion, because of the illicit nature of our relationship or because he is a true S or P (likely P in his case). At times I have felt that he loves me insanely, and at other times I question whether he knows how to play me to get what he wants.

Additional info... He admits to:

Lacking compassion
Not understanding people
Being awkward, despite his extreme charisma
Paranoia
Uncomfortable living with anyone
Secretive
Self-serving financially

There are many more things, but for the sake of privacy, I won't publish them here. Suffice to say, he'd get a gold star on the Hare check-list.

When I steal affection from him that isn't in the heat of the moment, he sweetly goes along, but in short order, he must soon pull away. I actually don't mind. I understand what his boundaries are. He was gentle but clear when he admitted that emotional and physical intimacy make him awkward. And yet, this man who professes to be awkward around people pursued me relentlessly for many months before landing me in the sack. I gave him every reason why we would and should never be together, but every argument I presented was counteracted with the most artful and intriguing response. It was an escalating and erotic debate that pulled me across moral boundaries I'd not crossed before. I caved, and I am no push-over. And two years out, I find that I've accepted personality traits I would never have accepted in the past, and I feel deep love and acceptance for him.

Empaths see the world through rose-colored glasses. Not this guy. He's taught me lessons in life that no normal person could possibly teach. We are in an insanely unique relationship and our cerebral connection is extreme. We spend hours discussing everything imaginable, including his highly checkered past. We also share a mutual zest for life and I don't judge or seek to change him. For clear and obvious reasons, I should fear him, but I don't. Through him I find clarity. I don't ever enrage him. I've learned patience, control and understanding like never before. I love him unconditionally and I loathe to admit that my interaction with my antisocial has made me a better person.

Tell me something: Can a sociopath truly love another, in their own way? He has never been unkind or cruel to me. He is brutally honest about who and what he is, although I've never asked him directly if he is a psychopath. I think I'm afraid of the blunt response that might be forthcoming. He does admit to being antisocial.

I sometimes think that if he is a P or S that he's hit the pot of gold in the relationship world. I have accepted every unique, wonderful and dark thing about him. I just want to know what I'm dealing with. I'm not even sure I would run if he is a sociopath. I get so much out of the relationship, in terms of intelligent and shrewd conversation and hot sex, that I seem compelled to stay for my own selfish reasons.

Thanks for any advice/thoughts/analysis you may have. I figure it's best to get it straight from the horse's mouth.

The same reader wrote me this update:

We have since split up. It was a tricky break-up for me, but clean for him. He brought down the hatchet quickly, and I didn't have a moment to respond. It took a couple of months, but he finally made contact and we have departed on good terms.

When I wrote the original letter, I was pretty sure of what I was dealing with, and I've researched more since then, and hung around this board. I no longer question what he is, and sadly, I better understand his capacity to feel the same things that I feel. But I'd love to hear feedback, particularly now that it is definitively over. But the 'over' was done with class and style from both sides, despite the chilling and brutal silence before-hand.

And finally, please tell me, is it ever really done with a psychopath? I should wish and hope for that, but sadly, I miss the excitement. I miss the ride. I miss the wild and hot sex and I miss him. Maybe I'm just a sucker with my own issues and low boredom threshold, complete with the need for drama and entertainment, but I loved the bastard. Truly, I did. It would be easier to feel anger after his abrupt dismissal, but I don't and will never fault him for what he is. And for what he is, he's damn good at it.

Successful relationship with a sociopath?

It probably depends on your definition of success. From a reader:

Thank you for your site. Every other website about sociopathy I have read describes the sociopath as an evil unfeeling predatory monster out to steal your life, money, and children while raping your mother and pouring sugar in your gas tank.

My boyfriend is a sociopath. He told me that towards the beginning of our relationship. While that has resulted in problems in the relationship (understandably, mostly MY problems-he didn't see anything wrong), I have found that communication and understanding has made the relationship possible. We know that there are just some things about each other that we will never understand. He doesn't get how I can be so upset over something like a relative getting cancer ("he's smoked for years, WTF were you expecting?), and I don't get that he can't see that that response out of him doesn't help at all, and can't "feel my pain" as it were.

I know when to back off and let him have his temper tantrums when he gets frustrated or whatever it is that sets him off on a yelling spree.

I know that if I were to loan him a chunk of money, I would never see it again. Even if he said I would. So I don't.

I've learned to expect the unexpected from him.

I've learned when to ask him for something he doesn't like doing (putting on his "normal person" mask and hauling him off to visit my mother, for example), and when to just drop it and go see mom by myself because it will be more pleasant for everyone involved.

I've learned that when he says he loves me, he can't mean it in the same way that I love him; but that doesn't make whatever he is experiencing insincere or false.

Back to you, m.e. Reading more insights in to how sociopaths think has been extremely helpful in trying to understand what I should expect, what I should ask for, and what I need to accept is simply him- unchangeable, undeniable, just like his eye color or height.

Seduction update

Success on all fronts, I am pleased to announce. Apparently I was just too "intoxicating," "charming," or "enchanting" to resist. Or in all fairness, maybe I am the one being seduced, who knows. I am also pleased to say that the post-seduction bliss is just that, although it has been making me think about something I read once, that sociopath targeting consists of three phases: (1) the assessment phase, (2) the manipulation phase and (3) the abandonment phase. Where is the enjoy the fruits of your labor phase? Why bother planting a seed of seduction, nurturing it over the period of several months (or even years), and then abandoning it immediately? Why would anybody think that is accurate? Maybe there are sociopaths out there who do that, but I have never understood the point. When I build/grow something, it is meant to last.

I actually encourage bonding from my targets once they are hooked. In the initial stages part of the fun of seduction for both sides is the uncertainty -- the excitement of not knowing what will happen next. Once someone is hopelessly smitten, however, instilling a sense of unease in your target will only create emotional outbursts and other anxiety-related bad behavior. I do not get pleasure from seeing people cry, so this type of result does not appeal to me at all. To avoid this (and as a happy successful seduction gift to them), I always root out their biggest insecurity with regards to the relationship and alleviate it. It helps them to settle in, like changing out of cocktail attire and into sleepwear. I feel that it encourages the nesting instinct in the target. Interestingly, as they feel more secure in the relationship, my power over them increases. I have always thought that was a slightly perverse result, one on which sloppier seducers might never completely exploit. But I guess that is always the trade off from allowing yourself to be tamed by another human -- it's great to get steady meals and shelter, but you also come to depend on your master.