Showing posts with label relationships. Show all posts
Showing posts with label relationships. Show all posts

Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Same sex cheating

I am always sort of charmed to read textbook examples of sociopaths, particularly when they include personality traits that aren't actually really emphasized (or even included) in most textbooks, like ambiguous sexuality.  These descriptions are selections from a reader about her and her boyfriend (sorry for the choppy editing):


I'm uber reasonable, I like to travel a lot, I like to experience different cultures, most of my boyfriends have been foreign, they bring something different to the table and I value that, its interesting to see life from a different point of view and hear different perspectives. I am always right ;-) but there is not ever just one right answer and I like to have my world expanded by hearing other versions. I like that my bloke presents yet another perspective on life.

Re the sexuality thing, I'm pretty certain that he is "creeping on the down low." There have just been too many little incidences. Also he is always very good humoured every time I imply that he shags blokes. I'm quite sure that most men would be quite annoyed if it were not the case. 

I was chatting to a girl a few weeks ago who works with male sex workers, she said that something like 80% of these guys did not consider themselves to be gay, most have wives or girlfriends, many with established families, I found it really interesting how it seems that these guys are so able to completely separate parts of their lives so that one has absolutely no bearing on the other, quite an enviable skill. I'm very fortunate, have lived abroad, travelled a lot, good job blah blah blah, but there are things that I wish I had done. I wonder if a sociopath is more able to achieve all these goals without some of the constraints life often presents. (does that make sense?) (that's not to say that all these guys are sociopaths or that all sociopaths are shagging both sexes).

I do not want him to think that I am stupid and that I just don’t know what he is up to. Obviously I don’t know the fine details, who, where, when etc. but I know that in general he shags around and for some reason I feel the need to make sure that he knows that I know, and that I accept it as my choice, not that I’m some stupid blonde that he is managing to fool. It’s petty really on my part, I’m sure he knows that I’m not stupid (I hope!) but I just need that confirmation from him, which obviously he can’t give without admitting what he gets up to – it ain’t going to happen.

It’s like I have an internal conflict going on, I suppose it’s to do with society and how we are brought up to expect people to behave etc. Society tells me that relationships are supposed to be monogamous, open and honest. But I know in reality that is not how it works, I myself cheated on my long term boyfriend, 5 times in fact, and it was never anything to do with him. I really did love him, had I thought he would find out and get hurt I would never have done it, but I knew he wouldn’t and it was fun so I did it.  And so I have a conflict between what I think I am supposed to expect from him, what he delivers, and what I find I am able to accept in reality.

I accept it because I have done it and I’m not a sociopath, so I am in no position to tell him off for doing the same when he is ‘programmed’ to do so. I have also always known what he is like and allow him back in my life on that basis, I cannot therefore start complaining later on down the line. And at the end of the day I just like him being about, so I balance it and have the occasional spat at him. It will run its course.

As I mentioned, I caught him hitting on a guy, and obviously he has denied it since, at the time he had taken a lot of MDMA, coke and alcohol. I read on your blog that sociopaths often adopt a kind of code to live by. For my bloke being gay is a big no no culturally, so do you think that he maybe adopts a no gay code to live by day to day but that under the influence of a lot substances it slipped? I’m just looking for excuses here aren’t I, so I don’t have to face facts right? Which is weird because I have dated a couple of bisexual guys in the past, I guess it’s that not knowing thing. You get a lot of that dating a sociopath!


Sunday, February 12, 2012

Relationships

I am currently in the longest serious relationship that I have been in for approximately the past decade.  I used to not be good at any long term relationship.  Even family relationships would have blow ups and times of estrangement.  I got sick of the drama so I started learning little ways to keep the ship righted.  Now I resolve small issues before they become big issues and I ensure that I am always a net positive in their life.  I basically just channeled my efficiency obsessed self into it, and I am quite good at it now.

The things I have been thinking about recently is what is the proper role of manipulation in a relationship?  I have always said that everyone wants to be seduced (trademark pending?  I feel like that should be the sequel to "Everyone Poops").  With this current relationship, I performed the seduction perfectly.  To use a baseball analogy, it's been my no-hitter.  It was not easy and it was not always clear that it would turn out so well.  (I almost think that it was because I felt no expectations about the relationship being anything but a fun distraction.  I felt no performance pressure, so I performed nearly perfectly.)  I'd tell you about it, but like a baseball no-hitter, the story of a perfect seduction is actually sort of boring.

My question is, now that I have a relationship that seems like it could last and I am interested in exploring that option, do I keep seducing?  Or actually get real?  Well, that's sort of not the question anymore because I have already gotten at least a more real as the relationship has progressed.  I guess it's more like, stay real?  Or step back in and "fix," seduce, or manipulate when the situation warrants it?  Or I guess that's not really the question either, because framed that way the answer would of course be step back in.  I think the question is more like, when would the situation warrant it?  Should it be a most of the time thing?  Or only part of the time?

Things I think:

  • If people could be manipulated/seduced into being happy without knowing that is the source fo their happiness, they would typically choose that (ignorance is bliss, blue pill over the red pill, or everyone wants to be seduced).
  • Some people would feel betrayed if they ever did find out that they were being "managed."
  • People find things out eventually, or things have a way of being found out.
  • Small fixes sometimes just mask bigger problems that don't have such easy "fixes".  
  • I tend to respect people less in proportion to the amount that I manipulate them.  
  • Manipulation is turning down an opportunity to try to find a real mutual understanding on an issue.
  • Mutual understanding usually means the other person is getting better at pleasing me, i.e. reciprocating the seduction/maintenance.  
Other than that, I really don't know what to think.  And yes I realize how funny it is for me to be asking you for relationship advice for a change.  


Saturday, January 7, 2012

Perfect prey (part 1)

From a reader:

Do you believe that there are empaths who are perfectly suitable partners for sociopaths?

I have been playing cat and mouse with a certain sociopath for four years now. We have gone back and forth between 'love', hate, jealousy, possession and everything in between, and I can't imagine anyone more intellectually or emotionally stimulating. I consider myself to be in love with this person, and know from their inability to get away from me, they reciprocate this to some degree.

I have had others boyfriends (all who I believe are empaths), and I couldn't stand them. I am inextricably proud of 'my sociopath' when they are exerting power over others, and I find it hilarious and thrilling when I know that they are trying to manipulate me also. 


M.E.: It makes sense that there would be certain empaths who value sociopathic traits more than others, such that they would be willing to put up with a lot more of the "negative" traits (or not even see them as negative) than most would.  And it is odd to read some of the comments and see that some people have had multiple interactions with sociopaths over their lifetime--almost like they are a magnet for sociopaths.

But I feel like I should give you some unsolicited advice, just because I just got done emailing someone who pushed her sociopath too far and had him abandon her.  The tricky thing about sociopaths in relationships is that nothing is certain.  You are probably right that your sociopath is intrigued with you, maybe even infatuated.  There is no such thing as "can't live without" in the sociopath's world, though.  They are extremely adaptable and changeable and if you are gone, they really will hardly notice (if notice at all).  That is not to say that they couldn't be a lifelong companion.  But, you would have to be like a plate spinner--constantly going from plate to plate, tending to this need here, being ever so slightly difficult and playful there--to keep things going.  It's a lot of work, and if you're not naturally interested in those sorts of interpersonal machinations, it might wear on you.


Thursday, January 5, 2012

Misanthropy

I was searching for a particular old email recently and stumbled across an interesting discussion between me and a friend.  To give you some insight into my friend's view of humanity, this friend had one time suggested that it was easy for me to be so happy-go-lucky about humanity because I had more "faith" in love than she did.  It is weird for me to read things like this because I don't feel this way anymore--I am not as enamored with humanity as I was even a few years ago.  Then I saw this email (again, from several years ago) to the same friend about how I had been helping out with the political cause of a mutual acquaintance--a political view that this particular friend abhorred.
I'm very impressionable it is true. And yes, I did pick a conclusion first and then come up with ways to justify it to myself. I didn't realize that I had done such a poor job that you could see through me so easily.  
Anyway, this is how I have always been. I don't really think things are morally abhorrent. I usually don't think about stuff that way. I really am pretty much a blank slate. I just like people, I don't mind adopting their values on things and fighting for those values. It's like the Naomi character in the bible saying, "where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. your people shall be my people, and your god my god." People are my beliefs and alliances, you included. If the other side had gotten to me first, maybe it would be a different story and a different set of justifications. I can understand people not respecting that or not thinking it is a legitimate way of living, but I don't know. It seems alright to me. But I am not entirely surprised that my justifications didn't make sense to you. Don't be sad, though. I'm ok. I'm not about to join a cult or anything.
It's weird for me to read something like this. It's odd to see certain very familiar things about myself (i.e. weak sense of self, impressionable, people pleasing), but I also realize that I used to like people much more than I do now. It's as if my love and interest in humanity was a passing phase--a bit of a personal fad, like the careers or other exploits that I have picked up and dropped just as suddenly over the years. I think I exhausted the potential upside with people and then it became (and still is) just maintenance. There's no longer the same thrill that I used to get in interacting with people.

My current relationships take so much more effort than my previous relationships did.  When I was younger, I would just burn through relationships.  I confessed to one that I was using him like a paper napkin, to be disposed after I was done with him.  After a while I got a little tired of the drama and upheaval that went along with these aborted relationships.

Now I have a general rule that I don't mess with my intimates, only with people to whom I do not have many ties.  It's basically a policy of not defecating where I intend to eat.  There are real benefits in living my life this way, but there are also definite costs.  Now if I am fed up with someone, I don't blow up or try to hurt them, I distance myself from them and spend some recovery time alone.  Sometimes I have to spend the equivalent of several hours alone in order to be one hour of my well-behaved, solicitous self around certain people. It's odd, but the nicer I have become to my intimates, the less goodwill I have for the rest of humanity.

Friday, October 14, 2011

S + BPD: Byron and Lady Caroline Lamb

People often remark in the comments sections that sociopaths and borderlines seem made for each other. This is what I was thinking as I read the Wikipedia account of Lady Caroline Lamb, spurned-lover come stalker of Lord Byron:



She had spurned the attention of the poet on their first meeting, subsequently giving Byron what became his lasting epitaph when she described him as "mad, bad, and dangerous to know." His response was to pursue her passionately.

Lady Caroline and Lord Byron publicly decried each other as they privately pledged their love over the following months. Byron referred to Lamb by the hypocorism "Caro", which she adopted as her public nickname.[10] After Byron broke things off, her husband took the disgraced and desolate Lady Caroline to Ireland. The distance did not cool Lady Caroline's interest in the poet; she and Byron corresponded constantly during her exile. When Lady Caroline returned to London in 1813; however, Byron made it clear he had no intention of re-starting their relationship. This spurred what could be characterized as the first recorded case of celebrity stalking as she made increasingly public attempts to reunite with her former lover.

Lady Caroline's obsession with Byron would define much of her later life and as well as influence both her and Byron's works. They would write poems in the style of each other, about each other, and even embed overt messages to one another in their verse. After a thwarted visit to Byron's home, Lady Caroline wrote "Remember Me!" into the flyleaf of one of Byron's books. He responded with the hate poem; "Remember thee! Remember thee!; Till Lethe quench life’s burning stream; Remorse and shame shall cling to thee, And haunt thee like a feverish dream! Remember thee! Ay, doubt it not. Thy husband too shall think of thee! By neither shalt thou be forgot, Thou false to him, thou fiend to me!"
***
In 1819, Lamb put her ability to mimic Byron to use in the narrative poem "A New Canto." Years before, Lamb had impersonated Byron in a letter to his publishers in order to have them send her a portrait of Byron. It worked; the tone and substance of her request fooled them into sending the painting.
***
Lamb's struggle with mental instability became more pronounced in her last years, complicated by her abuse of alcohol and laudanum. By 1827, she was under the care of a full-time physician as her body, which had always been frail, began to shut down.

Tuesday, August 24, 2010

Love Fraud: the book!

I got stuck watching the movie "Must Love Dogs" at a family function. It was fascinating, if for no other reason than to experience how a certain segment of the world experiences life. Or maybe not, maybe it's just a ridiculous older white woman fantasy about trying to find a "good man" in a world full of crazies, e.g. a philanderer and someone who dispenses with small talk on the first date. The film features Diane Lane saying things like "I slept with a man who isn't my husband, I guess that makes me promiscuous." Weeks later, I'm still wondering -- is this reality or fantasy? Maybe 50-something women really experience the world this way. But it is a Hollywood movie and knowing what I know of the world, I question its accuracy.

In a similar vein, Love Fraud founder Donna Andersen has written a 640-page book religiously chronically her marriage with someone whom she has diagnosed as a sociopath. I've been told that she's being featured on the premiere episode of "Who the (Bleep) Did I Marry?" on Investigation Discovery, a sister network of the Discovery Channel.
Premiering on Aug 25 at 10 pm ET, Who the Bleep is a series that features first-person tales of people who were married to scandalous spouses who turned out to be bank robbers, international spies, bigamists and more.
You can watch the trailer here.

Why do I say similar vein? Like the movie "Must Love Dogs," I just can't quite figure out whether your typical Love Fraud reader is delusional, principled, obsessed, wronged, out of touch, or on top of things. I think the position that Love Fraud people take on what happened to them can best be summed up by this passage:
This helps in part shed light on why people on the outside of some exploitative and abusive relationships generally blame the real victims, or express impatience by suggesting victims should just leave a bad relationship right away or should at least have known what someone else was doing behind their back.
But who can truly fathom the tangled webs sociopaths weave when they set out to deceive? Had the women Montgomery victimized known the truth about him before they got involved, surely they would have been in a better position to make different choices, more informed decisions. But they didn't know. They may have suspected something wrong, but short of doing full-fledged investigations, they generally had no direct access to proof when they needed it.

Okay. It's not an entirely far-fetched sounding version of events, but it is just so far outside of my own reality that I have a hard time seeing things their way. I'd much rather see people taking control/responsibility over what happened to them, like this:

Just as Andersen describes from her own personal growth journey, each of us can explore beliefs that potentially set us up for manipulation by others, whether due to feeling unloved or other unresolved issues from childhood. We can change our thinking and behaviors to focus more on our own well-being rather than expect to be rescued by a relationship or base hopes and dreams on fairy tales. We can learn to identify red flag behaviors in people who are toxic. We can change the way we react to others' attempts to guilt and shame us. We can learn to avoid being sucked into the drama that sociopaths are adept at creating.
I think at their best, support groups like Love Fraud should be trying to accomplish this real, lasting self-empowerment and healing. Instead, I wonder what percentage of these people get better. Do most actually "explore beliefs" that led them to what happened? Do they then apply what they learned through those explorations to fashion a better life for themselves? I would like to see some statistics on Love Fraud recidivism.

Thursday, August 19, 2010

Conversation with a reader: loyalty (part 2)

M.E.: So in your case, giving him a hard time about not meeting your needs increased the cost side of the cost/benefit equation.

Reader: If you mean that I eventually cost him more than I benefited him, yes.

M.E.: And you seemed to be set enough on things being that way that to him it seemed like it was going to be a constant deficit. That's the thing with sociopaths, they're fine with running into the red for a little while, particularly depending on the amount of equity already in the relationship, but if they sense something is going to run into the red indefinitely, they would rather just break things off then lose their entire investment. It's like choosing to amputate an infected limb before it spreads to vital organs. I was like that with one of my friends. Her dad had terminal cancer. She is super emotional, sort of self destructive, as a rule, and the smartest person I know personally.

Reader: But she asked you for too much?

M.E.: In a way yes, in other ways no. She never really asked; I just became. I'm flexible enough that I could become whatever it was that she needed, or what I thought she needed. It's hard to know when to stop, you know? You think that you can be whatever they need you to be, and that if the person is important enough to you, you should do so. But it is not cost free to you.

Reader: It's the same for empaths.

M.E.: Exactly! You can't indefinitely wear a mask that is so foreign to the way you typically are, a mask of extreme compassion or selflessness. So the costs of the relationship go up, and the benefits go down because she is depressed all the time and you're not getting what you used to get, very interesting conversations, a check on your own bad behavior, superior advice in all things including fashion. You run many months into the red and there still seems to be no improvement. It will tear you up inside. It's too much, too much force to try to put on your psyche.

Reader: And is there a way to talk about what used to be good about the relationship so that you two can go back to that?

M.E.: Yeah, there are always ways to go back, sunk costs, right? They’re ignored.

Reader: So will you get back in touch with your friend eventually?

M.E.: Ah, we're friends now. She picks all of my best clothing items. We didn't speak for a while, though. I was the one who asked for that, not speaking, that is. I think that hurt her a lot. She has a fear of being abandoned.

Reader: Of course it hurt her.

M.E.: Which is why I postponed it for so long, but it was literally making me crazy. I mean, I don't really have any boundaries. It's really hard to be put in a situation in which boundaries are necessary.

Reader: You probably did the right thing, by taking space.

M.E.: Yeah, maybe. It was really hard. I think it bothered me more that I had failed than that I had failed her, you know? I have such a healthy self-image, then something like this comes along. That's when you start feeling like you really are defective, like something is seriously wrong with you. You start believing that no matter how hard you try to do better in the future, this will keep happening over and over in your life like some sort of sick déjà vu. That's when life really starts to seem meaningless.

Wednesday, August 18, 2010

Conversation with a reader: loyalty (part 1)

Excerpts from an IM conversation with a reader:

M.E.:
It's hard being in any sort of relationship with a sociopath

Reader: It makes me wonder what is the best relationship for a sociopath. I wonder why socios don't pair up more.

M.E.: Probably not enough glue to keep them together. There are times when I question pursuing even some of my most enduring and meaningful relationships, family and friends. Empaths can't ignore sunk costs, typically. If they've poured so much into a relationship, they feel the urge to keep investing even if the costs exceed the benefits. That makes them poor entrepreneurs (or great ones!), but good in relationships because they’re not just willing but wanting to stick through things when they get tough.

Reader: The attachment/bond added to the investment keeps them around...

M.E.: Exactly. Sociopaths don't feel that pull. Not as strongly, at least. I am constantly asking myself, “Is this relationship or plan of action providing more to me than I am giving to it?”

Reader: But I thought sociopaths could be extremely loyal

M.E.: Yes, they can be very loyal. There will typically always be some level of interaction at which it is worth pursuing a relationship.

Reader: Ah, so they're loyal when the relationship is clearly rewarding.

M.E.: Well, maybe instead of best friends they could be good friends, like downsizing, or going on a little hiatus. I think that most people’s experience with sociopaths is that they want to eventually come back and maintain some sort of contact. Just because they ignore the sunk costs does not mean they go so far as to ignore the investment/equity that is already there.

Thursday, April 29, 2010

Sociopaths and depression

From a reader:
I am already sorry that my email has to begin with "my ex-boyfriend is a sociopath..." because I know this is something most women think has happened to them. My ex, however, is what he describes as "caught in the net"; a diagnosed sociopath, treated once in hospital and still in occupational care. Not that it helps, of course.

When we were together, he didn't act in a way that most women would describe their apparently sociopathic exes as acting, in fact he was very loving and caring, and always spoke of the huge amounts of respect he had for me, and how he took me seriously, and this is why he loved me. Before we were together we were friends and I would watch him systematically destroy the emotional lives of his exes, just for fun, just for kicks. My reasons for loving him were the normal ones; mainly, I was attracted to the sociopath in him.

I saw him just the other day, and we had this long conversation, where he told me about how much he feels he is suffering. I am adverse to all people who assume that sociopaths have no feelings whatsoever. Sure, he doesn't feel guilt, which sometimes makes me feel incredibly upset that he could - and has - hurt me spectacularly, and the only remorse he would feel would be the remorse would follow my excommunication of him, not the fact that he had upset me.

He has started to complain of feeling he has built himself a prison of his own behaviours, that his lack of impulse control is what's driving him to his own insanity. He doesn't feel guilty, his problem doesn't lie in his fear that he is hurting people, it is his basic fear that he will be lonely, that he is damaging himself. He has had a few scares that have nearly killed him, a few outbursts that have landed him in the Police Station or the psychiatric unit. He said something to me about his grip on reality; something about the fact that every time he does something "typically psychopathic", he is bored of himself, and he feels another barrier between him and the real world has gone up. I'm not entirely sure what he means by this.

I wouldn't assume that the reason he is saying this stuff to me is to appeal to my empathy, because I currently have nothing he wants. He is always relatively honest with me, in that if he wants something from me, he will ask for it. He respects me, still, so the mind games he plays with me are very minor and are usually just to keep himself on form.

My question is, is this feeling of suffering a common thing? Sociopaths I know only feel very primal emotions, and he has often told me that my downfall in life is that I am far too empathetic and this is slowing me down, that I could be like him if I wanted to but I'm too compassionate and he finds this quite sickening.
Occupational hazard?

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Successful relationship with a sociopath?

It probably depends on your definition of success. From a reader:
Thank you for your site. Every other website about sociopathy I have read describes the sociopath as an evil unfeeling predatory monster out to steal your life, money, and children while raping your mother and pouring sugar in your gas tank.

My boyfriend is a sociopath. He told me that towards the beginning of our relationship. While that has resulted in problems in the relationship (understandably, mostly MY problems-he didn't see anything wrong), I have found that communication and understanding has made the relationship possible. We know that there are just some things about each other that we will never understand. He doesn't get how I can be so upset over something like a relative getting cancer ("he's smoked for years, WTF were you expecting?), and I don't get that he can't see that that response out of him doesn't help at all, and can't "feel my pain" as it were.

I know when to back off and let him have his temper tantrums when he gets frustrated or whatever it is that sets him off on a yelling spree.

I know that if I were to loan him a chunk of money, I would never see it again. Even if he said I would. So I don't.

I've learned to expect the unexpected from him.

I've learned when to ask him for something he doesn't like doing (putting on his "normal person" mask and hauling him off to visit my mother, for example), and when to just drop it and go see mom by myself because it will be more pleasant for everyone involved.

I've learned that when he says he loves me, he can't mean it in the same way that I love him; but that doesn't make whatever he is experiencing insincere or false.

Back to you, m.e. Reading more insights in to how sociopaths think has been extremely helpful in trying to understand what I should expect, what I should ask for, and what I need to accept is simply him- unchangeable, undeniable, just like his eye color or height.

Friday, March 12, 2010

Child custody fights (part 2)

A reader's experience in a child custody fight with her sociopath ex (cont.):
He was not happy with the amount they ordered him to pay, so he asked for a continuance. However they established visitation in a gradual step-up fashion. I was not happy with this at all. He had never shown an interest in my daughter before, but now - all of a sudden - with a price tag on my daughter, he was adamant about "following the court order" (touching, isn't it?). But there was an edginess to it all. He seemed panicked and his energy was all off. His once unshakable and confident demeanor seemed a bit desperate, reflected in his threats, his attempt to drop his wife's name at every opportune moment. So obvious, for someone who is usually so smooth. It became apparent that the wife still knew nothing, though he kept saying she did (methinks he protested too much).

Finally, in one last act of desperation, he drove over four hours to "talk honestly" with me, prior to a meeting I had with an attorney. I was thinking this was going to be some revelatory moment. And yet, it turned out to be more of the same threats and ultimatums. This time, however he threw in a deal. He would agree to less money per month and no visitation if I left him alone.

This is when it is helpful to know who you are dealing with. Had I been dealing with anything other than a sociopath, I would have said "hell no." The cards were in my favor. He was bluffing and it was obvious. No way would he risk visiting my daughter every weekend with the wife wondering what he was up to. But with a sociopath, I've learned, you have to let them think that they're winning. It appeases some control thing they have an insatiable appetite for. And regardless of how little the child support would have been, he would have come up with another number, I'm sure. He just had to feel like he was dominating the outcome in all of this.

Thanks to this website, I've learned much about how to best deal with him, but even so this was also through trial and error. I have lost several battles dealing with my ex, much to my frustration. I became emotional when I shouldn't have. I let him push my buttons when he refused to call my daughter by name. I reacted in fear when it seemed obvious he had objectified her, reduced to simply an obstacle that needed to be removed from his life. After much consideration, I decided to accept his offer. Though very tempting, to call him bluff would have infuriated him, and I have no doubt he would have periodically made my life uncomfortable. Initially, I would have felt satisfied that I got his goat. But it would have been short-lived and a small victory for small battle in a much larger war that held higher stakes. His offer affords us peace. And it affords him the illusion that he won.

As m.e. wrote in response to one of my emails "it would be better for my daughter to live in poverty than to have this man a part of her life."

My daughter and I get to live in peace, in a healthy environment, with tons of people to love us both. And we get a monthly allowance from the biological (albeit sociopathic) sperm donor.

Battle lost. War won.

Thursday, March 11, 2010

Child custody fights (part 1)

One of my readers has been going through child custody issues with her sociopathic ex and father of her child. It's an interesting subject, and I do believe that there are pretty common mistakes that empaths predictably make. About the topic generally, this lovefraud post is actually sound advice. But for a more personal angle, I asked my reader to write her story summing up some of the advice I had given her and how she applied it to her particular situation:
How do you deal with a sociopath when he's fathered your child?

It wouldn't be such a big deal if there wasn't so much at stake. Sure, there's the whole business of my heart. He didn't just break it, he masterfully chiseled at it until there was nothing left. I hardly knew I was being tormented as he romanced me into insanity, literally through hell and back. But that's another story for another time. The end result was that I finally left with what shreds of dignity I had left. I was three months pregnant.

Our relationship was convoluted with other women, one of whom he married around the time I was about four months along. She never knew about me, much less the impending baby.

When my daughter was born, I filed for child support, confident he would not pursue visitation in order to protect both his marriage and reputation in his community. He is a charming, executive director of a well-known non-profit organization and is socially active in his town. This, I believed, was my leverage. I would soon learn that when you choose to engage in battle with a sociopath, nothing is what it appears to be, and you have to step into his world, his rules, his games. It is not for the weak or faint of heart. You have to be strong, have an undetectable poker face, and be ready to call bluff when the timing necessitates (but be ready for the consequences of calling bluff - it will generate a strong reaction from your sociopath, which is not advisable when children are involved).

But...

It is also a delicate balance of knowing just exactly how far to push, and when to give in. I learned the hard way that you absolutely never, ever let a sociopath know what your vulnerability is. This seems like a no-brainer, but for me, the fear was all to real when he began to threaten me with visiting my infant daughter. Mistake Number One. It would prove to be a fatal mistake that would be difficult for me to overcome and regain my footing. I learned it became easier for me if he underestimated me. So I played the light-hearted airhead. Absent-minded, not a care in the world. This worked for a while. When it came closer to our court date, he pushed more and more to see my daughter. I told him he was more than welcome to stop by. And then I would inquire innocently how his wife was doing. This was just subtle enough to make him gently back off. We did this for a while until we met in court.

Monday, February 8, 2010

Seduction update

Success on all fronts, I am pleased to announce. Apparently I was just too "intoxicating," "charming," or "enchanting" to resist. Or in all fairness, maybe I am the one being seduced, who knows. I am also pleased to say that the post-seduction bliss is just that, although it has been making me think about something I read once, that sociopath targeting consists of three phases: (1) the assessment phase, (2) the manipulation phase and (3) the abandonment phase. Where is the enjoy the fruits of your labor phase? Why bother planting a seed of seduction, nurturing it over the period of several months (or even years), and then abandoning it immediately? Why would anybody think that is accurate? Maybe there are sociopaths out there who do that, but I have never understood the point. When I build/grow something, it is meant to last.

I actually encourage bonding from my targets once they are hooked. In the initial stages part of the fun of seduction for both sides is the uncertainty -- the excitement of not knowing what will happen next. Once someone is hopelessly smitten, however, instilling a sense of unease in your target will only create emotional outbursts and other anxiety-related bad behavior. I do not get pleasure from seeing people cry, so this type of result does not appeal to me at all. To avoid this (and as a happy successful seduction gift to them), I always root out their biggest insecurity with regards to the relationship and alleviate it. It helps them to settle in, like changing out of cocktail attire and into sleepwear. I feel that it encourages the nesting instinct in the target. Interestingly, as they feel more secure in the relationship, my power over them increases. I have always thought that was a slightly perverse result, one on which sloppier seducers might never completely exploit. But I guess that is always the trade off from allowing yourself to be tamed by another human -- it's great to get steady meals and shelter, but you also come to depend on your master.

Monday, January 25, 2010

Love-ish (part 3)

Reader:
Agreed that all love has both selfishness and selflessness involved. However, LASTING love eventually evolves from selfishness into selflessness, as it becomes essential to care more about the other person than you do about your own needs. I believe real love contains elements of sincere attachment and commitment that make people stay in the relationship "through the good times and the bad, through sickness and health" etc. Real love is truly defined by how strong it is when life gets hard. Anyone can love when things are easy. That being said, I do not think it is elitist, it just is hard to do. You say that relationships with sociopaths seem to work. Do they? I value your blog and your need to bring society into a better understanding of what a sociopath feels and deals with in a world full of "empaths", however I think we would be hard pressed to find a relationship involving a sociopath that is truly functional (unless maybe it is with another sociopath). The sociopath of course believes the relationship is fine. They are getting what they need from it. But you ask the empath on the other end of the relationship if they are really happy and feeling fulfilled and I doubt you would hear a positive response. In most cases I am sure eventually that relationship is going to come to an end, with the empath feeling like they wasted their time. I have read many of your posts. I remember you writing that you are able to feel love. You have love for your mother, but it is more of just an "outlet" of yourself as she is your mother so it makes sense that you love her. You also wrote that you feel love for people in your life, but it is love "at that time"...and also can turn to intense hate within the same day. Lasting love is more than acting on impulse in the moment. It would appear that "at that time" kind of love does not involve any commitment. No commitment is feeling no attachment. No attachment is at the core of a sociopaths disorder. And a feeling of non attachment is never going to make an empath feel like the relationship is a good one. I do not doubt that empaths, those of us who are not aware yet of who they are actually involved with, or are in denial, or just have low enough self esteems that they do not feel worthy of something better...these empaths might be willing to go through the hardships of a relationship with a sociopath but I am convinced that if you compared the contributions that the empath is giving: they are putting way more effort, concern and selflessness than the sociopath is capable of contributing.

thanks again for your insight. It is very interesting.
M.E.:
Yeah, I see your point. I guess to a certain extent we are just talking past each other. It's amazing how varied the human race is. I love raw oysters, while a lot of people think that is wrong on many levels. I'm not saying my love is better or worse than yours, I am just saying it is different, some people might prefer it, others might hate it. The fact that we are so varied could be an evolutionary accident as you seem to suggest, or there could be some more valid reason, as I believe. It would be very difficult to prove either way, and I'm fine with that.

Sunday, January 24, 2010

Love-ish (part 2)

A response to my reply, from yesterday's post. (The reader requested specifically that I not edit the exchange for publication):
Ok I can see why someone with this disorder would want to feel love and have a relationship, but would you say that the type of love they are feeling is purely a selfish type of love. If we are going to accept the diagnosis of what sociopathic personality disorder is, then this person cannot form attachments and they cannot have the depth of emotion that would create real love (not because they don't want to, but because they are just not able too), and without real love and true concern (empathy) for the other person, would a relationship ever truly work? So, if they want love they want it for how it makes them feel, correct? Falling in love, making someone feel loved, and having it mirrored back to you is euphoric, and probably a high that most can see as a form of power to use. Maybe this is the attraction some sociopaths see in pursuing relationships. It is solely about what they are getting out of it. They cannot give back what is needed to make the other person fulfilled in terms of emotions. It would think it would end up being a selfish, one-sided relationship. Am I wrong?
M.E.:
I think all love has an element of selfishness to it, and that all love has an element of selflessness as well. What is real love? If sociopaths can't feel "real love," is their love valid? Empaths try this argument on me all the time. I think it is elitist. It is like the French complaining that the Chinese don't know how to drink wine because they cut it with lemon-lime carbonated beverages. Relationships with sociopaths seem to work. It's hard maybe, and it certainly is different, but people seem to be able to pull it off. I don't necessarily disagree with you on why sociopaths choose to love in the first place, but I think to say it is selfish and one-sided would be like saying traditional marriage of husband breadwinner and wife homemaker is one-sided -- maybe it is, but which is the beneficiary?

Tuesday, January 12, 2010

Seducing too well (part 3)

I learned this lesson long ago from being too smart: people will not want to play with you if they feel there's no chance they can win. It's a consequence of being good at games. It's lonely. Being rejected because you're too good is almost as bad as being rejected because you are incompetent. Depending on the situation and the person, there are things you can try to do to make it better. With my crush, I tried to alleviate the nervousness in the same way you'd try to calm an overexcited animal. Slow moves, explaining what you are doing the entire time, telling them there's nothing to worry about, no harm will come. There's a certain amount of shaming that can go into it. I try to make them see how ridiculous it is to be scared of little old me. The whole thing is a lot of work, though, and there's no magic bullet that will set them at ease. This seduction fire is not dying out because of too little oxygen—it's sputtering because there's a heavy wind: too much oxygen.

In my mind this is also a failed seduction. It reminds me of that scene in Pollock where Peggy Guggenheim seduces Pollock only to have him drunkenly ejaculate prematurely. I've come to realize is that anyone, any age, any gender, can show the restraint and judgment of a 12 year-old boy if you set up the seduction wrong.

I made things worse with my crush because I got frustrated and almost disgusted. I pushed the shame tactic too hard. I got traded down for a simpler model, not just shelved but back-shelved. It has taken months of soothing tones and being a shoulder to cry on before I've gotten back into my crush's good graces, and even now I tread as lightly as I can, on thin ice, because we are still not quite there.

Monday, January 11, 2010

Seducing too well (part 2)

The second too-well seduction started months before the first, but is still not complete. The first time we met I felt nothing but slight interest. The second time we ran into each other walking out of the office at the same time. I knew we would take the lift together, then walk through our building's maze of halls for at least five minutes more. Even after that we'd probably end up walking in the same direction, both of us sneaking out early. I was actually a little nervous about making so much small talk, but I had nothing to worry about. Somehow I was given the five-minute mini life story of everything that was that person's life since age 18, and it fascinated me. I just listened. It's amazing how much more effective listening is as a seduction tool than anything else. The infatuation quickly became mutual: mine was firmly rooted in narcissism and a desire to exploit. The thought of my crush made me salivate. The other person's infatuation was... I'm still not completely sure.

It's interesting how I guide people to knowing and adoring me. I do it in a very similar way each time. I have never taken hard drugs, but I find the accoutrement, the routine, the near-ceremony of the preparation fascinating. The way your junky girlfriend might softly persuade you to try heroin before guiding you through the process is how I feel when I let people "get to know me." Everyone is an M.E. virgin when I get them. Deflowering them can either be gentle or rough, but it always follows a certain pattern. Like hard drugs, I know I have certain side effects. They are similar in different people, though of course no two people are exactly alike. But I've never had someone react so strongly to me as this person.

I began this "courtship" with my new crush and realized pretty quickly that I made my crush debilitatingly nervous. At first, I really relished in this power. I was sick from enjoyment every time I noticed a quiver, a tremor, a crack in the voice, a nonsensical sentence. My crush could not recover, though, could not grow stronger. I was winning by too great a margin for my crush to remain interested in playing the game.

Tuesday, December 1, 2009

It's alarming how charming I feel (part II)

I could go either way on this letter (link here). It might have been written by a sociopath, or it may have not. But I always think it's an entertaining exercise to look at other people's communication in a critical way, trying to strip it of all your prejudices and preconceptions.

I think the letter is definitely manipulative. There is a certain lilt to it, a certain charm. There is a relatively good cadence, it is interesting to read. There's not really one point made, and though there is an apology, it's not for nothing specific. The apology, to the reader, could be interpreted as an apology for everything and anything that the reader believes the writer did wrong. This was clever, because the writer may truly be sorry for only one thing ("not behaving better") or may not even know what to be sorry for, so instead keeps things vague and lets the reader fill in the blanks. (Or perhaps doesn't feel any real guilt at all.)

I obviously don't know anything about the target of the letter, but I know it was effective because the reader has reunited with the writer. The letter seems clearly designed for one purpose, and that it accomplished that purpose leads me to believe that despite certain prejudices of mine about what I think people want or do not want to hear, this was obviously what the reader wanted to hear. The most interesting thing about it, though, is that although it is what the reader wanted to hear, the writer doesn't actually say much. Instead, the writer relies on the order, the structure, the format, the very cadence and rhythm of the words to lead to what were probably almost unavoidable logical inferences for the reader.

The writer hits hard with phrases like "I loved you" -- phrases that are sure to stand out in the reader's mind much more than the follow-up qualifiers of the love being selfish or narcissistic. The letter seems like an illusion, relying primarily on misdirection rather than outright deceit. The writer knows that he has to be honest, and has to come clean (so to speak) by actually including the various qualifiers and self-effacing statements he includes. That the reader wants to think he/she is reading honest responses is also apparent by the included phrase, "It's funny that after telling you virtually nothing, now I just want you to know the truth." We have talked before about how good lies typically contain a good deal of the truth, and the writer seems very careful about keeping the letter realistic (e.g., it sounds like these two did not know each other well enough for the reader to believe that the writer genuinely loved him/her, which is why the writer says "of course it was, I barely knew you"). The writer seems to be trying to reestablish a shared reality between the two of them, but a reality based primarily on rewritten history.

Going back to the phrase "I loved you," the past tense of the word loved is curious, but it seems purposeful, perhaps wanting to instill a sense of fear of loss or actual loss in the reader. Also it suggests that the writer is harmless, impotent -- because he/she no longer loves, he/she no longer has an incentive to "behave [poorly]". This seems designed to assuage any fears or misgivings the reader has about letting the writer back into his/her life, all while piquing the reader's interest --wanting the reader to not just think it is harmless to allow the writer back into his/her life, but actively wanting the writer back in his/her life.

The letter is also a Trojan horse, however. It promises love and eternal devotion, but those very promises are designed to guilt the reader into some sort of a response -- the writer's desired goal. The writer says, "It feels like you never really gave me a chance," followed by "I loved you." There are also the recriminations: "I feel like you have given me abandonment issues that I never really had before. I've gained a touch of paranoia. I second guess myself, even second guess the world." This is not only a plea for sympathy but a pointed finger of look-what-you-have-done-to-me-what-did-I-ever-do-to-deserve-this accusation. If the reader sees his or herself as a good, open-minded individual, he/she may have misgivings about his/her actions after reading this.

There is a suggestion that if they start over things will be different ("I guess I just wish that I had known it was coming"), but no direct promises or even a direct suggestion that it would have made any difference to the writer to know that the reader was leaving him/her. Finally, there is a plea to vanity: "I know I'll get over you, but I don't want to." I feel like that must work like a charm with empaths, if only because it sounds like a sappy movie line to me.

Our reader who sent this letter is right to be suspicious, I think. Even if the writer is not a sociopath, I am sure the friend has a very different understanding of the contours of their proposed renewed relationship than does the writer of this letter. Not only that, I believe that was the writer's exact intention.

Sunday, November 15, 2009

Are Co-dependents and sociopaths a perfect match?

So asks a reader:
Just wanted to let you know I really enjoy reading your blog. I have been researching sociopaths, for personal reasons, over the past couple years and always wanted to hear more about the way sociopaths think, behave, react etc...so I have been visiting everyday in order to gain more knowledge. I myself am a total empath....a people pleaser, co-dependent. There are things about it I like, and others I don't....

I understand precisely why I am that way. It has to do with my mothers expectations of me growing up, but that's another story. I first started my investigating due to the fact that my boyfriend was sending me mixed messages. By mixed, I mean from a point where I thought he likely did care-I was never certain though, to the point where he was threatening to kill me when things didn't go the way he wanted them too-usually got caught behaving badly or lying. Although I am driven by my emotions, I try to communicate with him logically to avoid conflict. If I show him that I am upset he instantly becomes defensive and angry. I usually get a damaging verbal beating thereafter. I get it though, it is only out of his frustration because he doesn't understand how what he says could hurt me..nor does it make any difference to him. It took along while before I understood this. He considers me a nuisance when my feelings are involved. He has got better at pretending to care over the years though with guidance from me, lol. After court ordered anger management I think he learned that it wasn't in his best interest to lose complete control. I realize anything he changes is only for himself and is never a result of what I would like.

When I first started my mission of better understanding I was appalled to discover that some people never feel any emotion~ now in some ways I believe this may be more beneficial than having them...I believe there is a place for both types. Without one there wouldn't be the other. I often wonder if that is where the term opposites attract came from.

There is much more to know about my personal experiences with my potentially sociopathic BF. I will continue to visit and if you are ever looking for some input from a person such as myself, I would pleased to assist you. That's what I'm best at!

Cheers!
The people pleaser
I love this for some reason. Maybe it is the slight abused-spouse vibe I get, or maybe it is the complete willingness to accept the sociopath worldview from a non-sociopath, or maybe it is the fact that these two crazy kids are still apparently dating. But I shared it because a lot of people wonder how you could date a sociopath. This is how.

Sunday, October 11, 2009

Frauds in Love

Today we are going on a field trip. A field trip to the opposite side of the spectrum. A lot of times when I need a good laugh I will visit Lovefraud.com. In case you don't know about this site, it's dedicated to victims of sociopaths. Broken, self-loathing, and bitterness fills the pages. It's like a sociopath's trash dump. My personal opinion is that these people set themselves up to be victims, then want to point the finger at the person who took advantage. Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to stay in a relationship they admit was so terrible. If you read the posts and comments (from people with weak names like 'justabouthealed'), you can see how they've already started off with defeat in their minds. It's not hard for ready made victims to become victims. The following post is the perfect example of how they set themselves up for the fall. Victory is not fighting, it's persevering. The old turn the other cheek. Lying to themselves, they believe that licking your wounds after getting victimized is a 'viable' victory. In reality it's failure. Here is the article:

My wonderful stepfather was a young basketball coach when he got his first real job coaching for a very small rural school which had not had a winning game in over a decade. The team was dispirited and had no real expectation of ever winning a game.

One of the local coaches bragged that he would beat them “by a hundred points!” at the next game. The team thought there was a good possibility that that coach’s team could do just that. However, it is “good sportsmanship” for a coach playing a much weaker team to let their second, third, and fourth strings get a chance to play, and to win over the weaker team, but not “tromp” them.

Daddy thought this other coach’s brag to stomp and tromp his team was poor sportsmanship so he made a plan. When the fourth quarter started and Daddy’s team had the ball, they “froze” it (which was legal in the game then) and wouldn’t either shoot the ball or take a chance on losing it, so passed the ball from one of Daddy’s team members to another the entire quarter. They didn’t make any points, but they kept the other team from even getting their hands on the ball the entire quarter, and thus making points against them. Daddy’s team didn’t win, but the other coach didn’t win by his “hundred points” either. That little team went on the next year to win their division championship because of the confidence that Daddy inspired in them.
Sometimes “winning” or “victory” can be interpreted in different ways. I’m also reminded of the old Country and Western song, the “Winner” where an older man and a younger man are in a bar talking. The younger man wants to be a “winner” in bar fight brawls, and the older man is educating him on what is “winning” and what isn’t.

Sure, you can get into a fight and you may inflict more damage on your opponent than he inflicts on you in the fight, but like the old man said, “He gouged out my eye, but I won.” Sometimes it is better to walk away from a fight and not lose more than you have already lost, or allow your opponent to take another “pound of flesh” in your attempts to “get justice.”

It isn’t always about getting what you deserve, or victory over them, or even seeing that they get “what they so richly deserve,” sometimes, I think, “winning” simply means keeping them from taking more out of you and, like Daddy’s team, “freezing the ball.” Sometimes, it is like the would-be barroom brawler, walking away (intact) with the other guy yelling curses in your direction.

It is emotionally tough to watch a cheater “get away with it” when they have ripped us off, and go “waltzing away” unscathed and apparently the victor. It eats at our sense of fairness to let them “succeed” and not pay a price for their bad behavior.

Yet, sometimes, “discretion is the better part of valor” to use an old phrase, or to “be a live dog, rather than a dead lion,” and “retreat and live to fight another day.”

Those victims who are not able to fight for a “victory” of any sort, I don’t think need to feel that they have “failed” because they chose not to fight the sociopath.

Too many times fighting the psychopaths are like “fighting a circular saw,” as my grandmother would have said. It “just isn’t worth it,” because the damage to yourself will be worse than you can possibly inflict on the psychopath. They stack the odds so in their own favor, that even if you “win,” you end up like the old brawler sitting in the barroom, broken and so gravely injured yourself in your effort to gain a “victory, of sorts” that in retrospect the price was too high.

Sometimes, it is better to walk away a “loser” but still intact, and with your head held high, using the energy and resources you have left to focus on healing yourself, on recovering what you have lost in terms of finances and strength, and take care of yourself. To me that is also a “viable victory.”
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