tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post1535020421789548908..comments2024-03-28T00:33:57.308-07:00Comments on Sociopath World: A utilitarian view of justice? (part 3)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-36406504161885961002013-12-19T08:09:12.595-08:002013-12-19T08:09:12.595-08:00Haven't been able to experience this. Don'...Haven't been able to experience this. Don't think it's possible. I tried, it didn't work. (empath) Socio can't uphold his end of the bargain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-26556392464511332922013-12-19T06:48:39.360-08:002013-12-19T06:48:39.360-08:00My hunch is that sociopaths and empaths will colla...My hunch is that sociopaths and empaths will collaborate if they can identify mutual self interest and realize that their complementary ways of viewing a situation bring greater understanding than either perspective by itself. <br />Trying to use a shared moral understanding will never work. If the word "should" ever enters into the negotiations the empath will lose the full participation of the sociopath.<br />If a sociopath is to cooperate fully without playing the empath there has to be an understanding on both sides that full disclosure of motives/methods is necessary to prevent internal self sabotage. The empaths's legitimate fear that they are being exploited is what undermines cooperation and causes the empath to retreat into self justifying moralism when they place their need for self protection ahead of the common purpose that the collaboration serves. <br /><br />Because the sociopath is the "out group", the burden is on the sociopath to figure out how to reassure the empath they aren't being played so that a true collaboration is possible and self protectiveness doesn't get in the way. <br /><br />This is tricky, because an moral language given to reassure an empath will be perceived as false. The only way to reach an empath is to leave their emotions out of it and help them logically understand why it is in the sociopath's best interest to cooperate long term instead of bailing out and leaving the empath holding the bag. <br /><br />There's a saying "The best predictor of a person's future behavior is their past behavior." The sociopath would do well to remember this in the sense that if they can establish a reputation as a person whose behavior is predictable in the sense that they will not abandon the collaborative effort midstream but will participate until the end in a "one for all and all for one" sort of effort then they will seem more acceptable in terms of risk as a collaboration partner. <br /><br />If a sociopath hasn't established a reputation for follow through, the best way of creating trust is contractually. If clear penalties are spelled in out in such a way that an empath understands it's not in the sociopaths best interest to break the contract, then the empath can stop being so self protective and collaboration will be possible. onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-85603792093568169132013-12-19T05:19:20.256-08:002013-12-19T05:19:20.256-08:00Maybe then the question facing the empathic is how...Maybe then the question facing the empathic is how to collaborate with sociopaths. I agree that the lack of friction that the absentee self induces is problematic in the arena of sustained motivation-maybe areas need cordoning off where the sociopath can have full control, maybe this would channel the despotic tendencies, I know that is an awful lot of maybes, but still. I live in hope that science will broach the divide with the spiritual and maybe give us computer controlled nervous systems so we can down load some of our dislocated rage...maybe.<br />From my perspective the lack of ability to collaborate with another is caused by the fact sociopaths are unbonded-or have bonded with a physical landscape or an ideal-NOT with another living breathing human entity, as a result all close personal contact feels alien, and the sociopath is unable to process it. what may be affection or excitement feels like an assault on the virgin soil of the sociopathic psyche. Thanks for the post, most helpful!psykopath-I-logicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05626438510026137418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-45796470774610674152013-12-19T02:21:35.037-08:002013-12-19T02:21:35.037-08:00Thank you, this makes sense to me, because of the...Thank you, this makes sense to me, because of the way I process reactions to others. It helped me understand why I want to hide from certain people my inner life. <br />I cannot feel safe being vulnerable around anything which feels remotely condescending. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-9266926437912645552013-12-18T17:29:57.252-08:002013-12-18T17:29:57.252-08:00She's actually teaching us a lot and has given...She's actually teaching us a lot and has given some very helpful guidance and advice, if you take the time to read through some of the blogs. This is an educational tool for those interested .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-5690983134799155852013-12-18T17:27:50.618-08:002013-12-18T17:27:50.618-08:00thank you for the tip.
thank you for the tip. <br /><br />onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-13133502984377665782013-12-18T16:29:31.032-08:002013-12-18T16:29:31.032-08:00Hey Machavell,
You are not pro-empathy, you are p...Hey Machavell, <br />You are not pro-empathy, you are pro- your-ego. So, feed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-28513733537844442772013-12-18T13:48:46.242-08:002013-12-18T13:48:46.242-08:00@Machavellianempath
Well, I was hoping actually t...@Machavellianempath<br /><br />Well, I was hoping actually that the author himself will answer to what I posted. So I will not respond you.Yet.<br />As for my boldness, I was hoping to get a more intelligent question. As a hint, you already raised the question wrong, which either sociopath or not, makes you stupid. I will respond to you if you raise a better version of that question. Be very careful how you raise the question...<br />Note: me stating you are stupid is nothing personally, I hope you can comprehend that!AlynJrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-28044301846396203072013-12-18T13:34:14.762-08:002013-12-18T13:34:14.762-08:00not at all. But my experience is that people would...not at all. But my experience is that people would far rather be understood (empathy) than pitied. Men in particular tend to dislike having people feel sorry for them unless they are the sort of individual who uses the guilt feelings associated with pity to extract resources from a target. I think it's because in many people's minds it implies weakness and vulnerability and if there is any degree of narcissism this runs counter to grandiose thinking.<br /><br />I find that if you are offering someone support it's far more effective to simply say "I understand" and if you don't understand say- "I haven't experienced this, but when I try to imagine this it makes me very sad that this happened to you." The reason I try to avoid using the word pity or the phrase "I feel sorry for you" is that it implies that the person who has experienced an injury or some other difficulty is somehow diminished.<br /><br />It's more empowering to a hurting person to validate their suffering (saying "that makes sense") than to act like the suffering has made them an object of pity. Pity is the sort of emotion you have for a bad ex who just can't pull his shit together. That's why pity can be so offensive. <br /><br />When I am hurting, I just want to know that the people in my life care about me. I don't want them to pity me. A subtle but important difference. onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-13220734180638550722013-12-18T13:19:13.354-08:002013-12-18T13:19:13.354-08:00@Machavellianempath:
"Pity implies a level of...@Machavellianempath:<br />"Pity implies a level of condescension."<br /><br />Does this mean that you experience a sense of superiority when you meet someone less fortunate than yourself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-60793458524457162042013-12-18T13:12:45.140-08:002013-12-18T13:12:45.140-08:00It's not an article. It's an account by an...It's not an article. It's an account by an individual trying to understand what empathy based morality looks like. <br />If it seems self contradictory it's because the author appears to be appealing to the audience to help clarify the seeming contradictions. <br /><br />When you say "some points" it's helpful if you specify which ones. Criticism tends to be more helpful when it is specific rather than a global denunciation. <br /><br />You are quite bold to classify all sociopaths as stupid. Do you consider yourself to be more intelligent? If so- why? onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-74622097300575155522013-12-18T13:06:06.806-08:002013-12-18T13:06:06.806-08:00that sounds like a catch 22 kind of question.
Si...that sounds like a catch 22 kind of question. <br /><br />Since you are clear, then please clarify for me. onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-48015599607983818102013-12-18T12:56:41.184-08:002013-12-18T12:56:41.184-08:00Also, the whole article is self-contradictory, and...Also, the whole article is self-contradictory, and some point are self-refuting on individual merits. Thoughts???AlynJrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-55983992788420667702013-12-18T12:50:39.904-08:002013-12-18T12:50:39.904-08:001.Sociopaths do have a conscience.
2.Sociopaths c...1.Sociopaths do have a conscience.<br /><br />2.Sociopaths can feel empathy.<br /><br />3.Sociopaths can very well feel a very broad range of emotions.<br /><br />4.Sociopaths like to fancy themselfs that they don't have the above.<br /><br />5.Sociopaths are not actually "sociopaths", they are just a bit different.<br /><br />6.Sociopaths are pretty stupid. They don't have a mind that "cuts". They are "surface" creatures.<br /><br />6.Doctors that treat sociopaths are really stupid people also.<br /><br />7.If any of the so called sociopaths would came into a east European country, like for example Russia, they will be "cured" probably in less then a day.AlynJrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-3935635054434556102013-12-18T12:48:36.196-08:002013-12-18T12:48:36.196-08:00@Machavellianempath
It's pretty clear that yo...@Machavellianempath<br /><br />It's pretty clear that you have no idea of what you're talking about.<br /><br />Are you sure that you are in fact capable of actually experiencing 'empathy'?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-78934943633219325542013-12-18T12:17:39.264-08:002013-12-18T12:17:39.264-08:00pity implies a level of condescension. Empathy is ...pity implies a level of condescension. Empathy is reexperiencing what the other person is currently experiencing. It is "sharing" their pain. It can be very comforting to be on the receiving end of this sort of attention if it is expressed sensitively. There is a sort of equality between 2 different people in that moment that is made possible by the empathic experience. A bond forms after this experience is acknowledged on both ends that is somewhat similar to a kinship tie (although usually lesser in degree). Traumatic survivors often receive their best comfort from other survivors because of the emotional resonance present in empathy.<br /><br />Pity, on the other hand, often gets tied up in shame if you are on the receiving end of it. Pity is about having one party acknowledge that the other party has been diminished somehow. If pity is expressed by a rival it is an insult, not a comfort. The one dispensing pity experiences a boost in status over the one on the receiving end. onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-86831707479952113742013-12-18T12:07:30.384-08:002013-12-18T12:07:30.384-08:00em·pa·thy ( m p -th )
n.
1. Identification with an...em·pa·thy ( m p -th )<br />n.<br />1. Identification with and understanding of<br />another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.<br />2. The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.<br /><br />So it's basically just pity. <br />This term is causing a lot of needless confusion. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-13667780875410451282013-12-18T12:02:52.640-08:002013-12-18T12:02:52.640-08:00http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympat...http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympathyonewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-71921456202239322482013-12-18T11:58:28.833-08:002013-12-18T11:58:28.833-08:00Could you please explain what empathy is and what ...Could you please explain what empathy is and what it feels like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-29812496969147044692013-12-18T11:50:14.146-08:002013-12-18T11:50:14.146-08:00Maybe its just for the purpose of making connectio...Maybe its just for the purpose of making connections.Jeliza Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976114169941577450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-80763417593804543702013-12-18T11:47:06.352-08:002013-12-18T11:47:06.352-08:00I know.I know.onewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320973006497715467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-14563191104986632622013-12-18T11:46:10.466-08:002013-12-18T11:46:10.466-08:00Strangely I equate empathy with a bath of power. ...Strangely I equate empathy with a bath of power. Like power to direct attention. A lot of people don't know how to use it. But its here for a purpose.Jeliza Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976114169941577450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-23269464145655524952013-12-18T11:44:13.066-08:002013-12-18T11:44:13.066-08:00I miss empathy. I know I feel it when my eyes get...I miss empathy. I know I feel it when my eyes get all watery. And I imagine the colour red. To me when I remember what empathy feels like, the idea of we. I always forget about we because I focus all my attention on me. But we is a way to be plural. That means I'm not alone right? But safe at the same time because it is only us.Jeliza Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976114169941577450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-16594608124601559522013-12-18T11:22:11.600-08:002013-12-18T11:22:11.600-08:00What this supposed to mean?
“Being utilitarian mea...What this supposed to mean?<br />“Being utilitarian means you make an impersonal calculation about the greatest good for the greatest number, as opposed to treating everyone like as individuals”<br /><br />I lack empathy but I don’t think like this. In one to one interactions, this is a very costly policy. I prefer win-win always. Win-lose outcomes are good for now, but…count your money when dealings are “really” done. For me individuals are very important -maybe even too important- I like to give my toughest punch to a person who is capable to hit back. So, treating others like individuals most of the time brings the greatest good for the greatest number.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-628748600098131100.post-47032319826129128722013-12-18T08:16:12.522-08:002013-12-18T08:16:12.522-08:00I don't care if someone believes in God, if th...I don't care if someone believes in God, if their utilitarian, what their ethnicity is, if their sociopath, if their empath. Who cares? What I do care about is how people are treated. respectfully. If you don't like them, stay away. Do unto others as you would have done unto you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com