Interview with a seductee (part 1)

I interviewed a seduction target to get the backstory. (I discussed this admittedly clumsy and mistake riddled seduction first
here, then
here, and finally
here):
You came into the office for your little stint. You kept walking by my door, kept walking by my window. Then you would come sit down in my chair and you definitely sat in it with a very territorial type comfort and I would talk nonstop in a verbal diahrrea that only showed my sense of discomfort with the entire situation and more appropriately you. I really remember my interactions with other people about you. People seemed to notice that you had come around in talking to me. I remember one or more person asking about you, who you are, what your deal was, where you were coming from, whether you liked me, aka what was your sexuality. Because even though it was decidedly confirmed that you were trendy and hip, it was unconfirmed whether you were gay or not, so it became my duty to find out, not just for their sake but equally for mine. Then we went to lunch I think, I remember it being somewhat awkward. I drove. We went to the mexican restaurant. You didn't eat your food. You ordered it. You didn't eat it. I thought that was strange, that you had ordered it, not eaten it, and not taken it with you. But we had an interesting conversation about nothing and then we talked about the only thing that mattered to me, which was trying to find out which gender you were into. It started with something like whether you had been to a particular gay club, which you had been. I had determined that that had meant that you were either gay or bisexual, which meant that the possibility that you and I were pretty much in love was certain. And then you would go on cigarette breaks with me and we would talk about life's mysteries.
I like the way the way that you stand, by the way. When we were standing outside, I really like the way you stand. I don't know if it was a proximate distance thing or a confidence, standing at attention, straight back thing, but there was something.
Then we made plans to have dinner, which essentially was to have dinner at my place without many more specifics, but we set a date within that week. You were only working there for a week, and I was leaving on a trip, so it couldn't have been much longer than a couple days after the lunch that we arranged to have a dinner together. When discussing this with my cohorts, they had decided that we were going on a date, and since you were coming to my house it was more a date plus something else, which put me in the uncomfortable position of deciding whether or not I wanted this something else from you, despite the fact that we had not actually established what you sexuality was. Luckily for me, my house is always tidy, but I don't have any groceries, so when you and I had arranged to have the dinner, I was going to have to go buy it that day, this all felt like a lot of hoopla and I didn't know if I wanted to pursue this. This led to me backing out and you sitting there in my office staring at me. I tried to explain myself, which was met with by your cold stare of unacceptance, to my shock. I was waiting for you to go "of course, can't wait to try it sometime later or soon," or some other agreement for letting me off the hook easily, but you seemed that much more annoyed that I was not only trying to get out of it, but trying to explain why I was trying to get out of it. You said that this was a negative attribute of my personality. Then, feeling much worse about the whole arrangement than before, I reneged on my attempt to get out of dinner and instead went back to having dinner with you and decided that I would just have to leave work early to get dinner supplies. After dinner, you're just laying on my floor, there were a lot of silent pauses. The entire time I felt like you were so brilliantly twisted and of wild thoughts that I was both enamored by you but felt that I had to prove myself to you and not bore you with small talk. You said that normal conversation with normal people was about things like what is your favorite color, and I seemed to ask all of these either very direct or indirect questions. It didn't flow like having a cup of coffee and catching up the way that good siblings or even new acquaintances would laugh at shared experiences. We were two awkward ducks in a mucky murky pond. It was very strange to me the interaction. You flew out the door and I had no idea what had just happened. I saw you at work for the next three days and after that...
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So you're a gay male??
ReplyDeleteNah, he's more of a game lover. Since ME and myself have some traits in common, I'll extrapolate for you, though ultimately he knows himself better than I do, so full disclosure:
ReplyDeleteI (and probably ME) don't see people in terms of what sex they are. On a social level, I see them as real people with real thoughts and feelings. On a sexual level, I see them as walking talking slabs of meat. I don't see them for their reproductive organs, I see them as a series of traditionally feminine and masculine qualities (after all, when I see someone, I don't walk up to them and put my hand down their pants).
I'll give you an example to clarify what I mean: I recently slept with someone who had soft skin, no facial hair, a slim lean body, and an amazing all natural scent. This person had a pleasantly snippy personality and acted like they were the boss of me. Can you guess their gender? It was a male. And although we didn't fuck (it was mostly sucking and cuddling), I would have had just as much fun inflicting an orgasm on him as I would any other girl. For me, it's not the sex of the person I'm sleeping with that matters (though it does dictate what can be done), it's the joy of convincing that person to surrender their control and power over their orgasms to me- seduction is like a game.
For the empaths wondering what this may be like, allow me to make the following analogy: Think of the last time you ate steak. Was it tender? Was is rare? Well done? Juicy? Now ask yourself "Did I enjoy it?" Now ask yourself "Did it come from a boy cow or a girl cow?" Can't answer that one? Don't worry, it doesn't matter. And now ask yourself one more question, "Do I really care about the sex of the meat in question, as long as it satisfied my hunger and desires?"
Now we can further expand this analogy further by asking what purpose did this piece of meat have in the first place? Did it's mother give birth to it for the sole reason for it to satisfy our desires? Probably not, unless it had a sadistic mother like mine, but I digress.
The meat we eat and the people we seduce are much the same: we are using them to satisfy our wants and needs in a way that it's parents probably did not intend. Does that make it wrong? Not necessarily, because we are all adaptable people, and we all use and are used by people to fulfill our wants and needs, however subconsciously. For the sociopaths amongst us, we are more honest with ourselves with those facts of life and have no need to disillusion ourselves with rationalizations.
"we are using them to satisfy our wants and needs in a way that it's parents probably did not intend. Does that make it wrong? Not necessarily,"
ReplyDeleteIt's very cut and dry for you. Your needs have to do with power, control and probably orgasm, although that is one you can make happen yourself.
You don't have a need for connection like empaths do. Since there is little emotion in a sociopath, I also wonder if there is a sexual orientation. To feel more for one sex than another would mean that you would have to have the emotions to feel that attraction. I could perfectly understand how sexually you would see people as slabs of meat. The positive in that, is, that you are able to see people for who they are without being distracted by a person's sexuality, like with most empaths.
It is not wrong if both people are aware that they are being used. If one person is lead to believe by the other that there is a special emotional connection, then that is wrong in my opinion.
Zan
I liked your comments Morrigans. I have screwed both men and women and you’re right. It can potentially be fun either way. The reasons need only make sense to me.
ReplyDeleteBtw Zan, you asked:
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if there is a sexual orientation.
I won’t speak for anyone else, but for me, sexual orientation isn’t real. It’s like all of the other major identity markers that normals take for granted. I neither believe in nor do I feel any connection to the labels of hetero/homo/bi-sexual. It’s all equal to me. That wasn’t a philosophical choice either. That’s how my own experience of sexuality turned out after puberty.
Maybe I’m “try-sexual”.
do S and Ps actually feel any sexual attraction to anyone? i ask because in theory we arent supposed to feel anything,right? so getting turned on should be out the window....
ReplyDeleteInteresting question. I think that's just human instict you know.. reproduce, chemical, hormonal. You don't have to feel love or concern for anyone to have sex with them. Wouldn't describe me though.
ReplyDeleteGrace
It seems to me, given what I have learned about sociopathology through personal experience by dating one and having read alot, that there would be such a thing as sexual attraction but it would not be the same as for empaths. For the socio, the sexual attraction is based on a goal. Possibly the person is a sexual challenge or is exceptionally good looking and is good for the ego of the socio, or possibly the person has money. Once the socio attains whatever it is that he/she was looking for, the attraction is no longer. There seems to be a relationship between the socios sex drive and the thrill of the chase. The more thrilling the chase and the higher the stakes the more sexually reved up the socio is. I don't know that this would qualify as sexual attraction because it isn't about anyone else other than the socio, his wants and desires which have nothing to do with the other person. I do believe that some socios that do not have alot of self awareness possibly confuse the adrenaline rush related to the anticipation and planning of the goal oriented seduction with attraction. Socios truly know how to make their target feel desired and can almost perform on demand. It really is amazing. Sigh.....i miss the fantasy so! Why did I ever have to wake up....lol
ReplyDeleteZan
Oh, I just remembered, here's one for the socio men. What does it feel like to you when a woman gives you a backrub? Do you just want to run out of the room or what? I tried to give my ex a backrub and he recoiled with disgust. He behaved like cat does when it is scared, you know how it's back arches and all their hair sticks up. Why would anyone not like a backrub? I thought all men did until I learned about socios.....or was that specific to the ex?
ReplyDeleteZan
For me, it's not that I don't want to have a connection with someone, it's more that I don't know how to.
ReplyDeleteI realize that when people get married, there's three major components to it: love, companionship and sex. I may not know much about how to love people, but I have realized that I love myself, and I can transfer some of that love onto others. Take my roommate for example. I love him. It could be that he reminds me of myself, it could be that if he dropped dead right this moment it would take me a while to find someone to pay his share of the rent. He's figured out that I'm a sociopath, and he has no interest in outing me to my rabbi. On the other hand, he's a tad emotionally retarded, so either he's one too or he's just a guy who's really been affected by his army training. We haven't had sex, mostly because it would probably make things awkward for him, and thus not be in my best interests. We have a kind of unspoken companionship with each other. There are times when we just lay down on our couches in our underwear, just watching the Military channel, making fun of other countries failed strategies. I like those times because without him I'd be left with the tv and my thoughts. And boredom is not good for a person like me.
When I have sex with people, it's not about the power and control they willing hand me, though it's a part of it. It's the artisan in me. Everyone's different, but we all have the same nerve endings more or less. It's how I stimulate them to orgasm that I like the most. For some reason, it seams that everyone puts such high importance on orgasm, like it's some kind of holy grail or something. I've had many orgasms in my life, and for me, their not that special. But when I inflict one on someone, they're so grateful for it. And that is my personal Artist's Pride.
I don't really feel a sexual attraction to others though. I'm more of an asexual with bisexual habits and an opportunistic mindset. As far as emotional attraction goes, I have realized that I do hold other men in more esteem than our womanly counterparts. Living in an Orthodox Jewish community, I can't even shake hands with a woman I'm not related or married to under various modesty laws (unless you count a handshake as a part of a business transaction, and that's debatable.) I've found that men are easier targets to befriend and have sex with. Remember that person I told you guys that I had sex with recently? It's funny, I met him at the shul on during some special event. A few days later I go over to a friend's house to play Pokemon (note to self: act 21 already) and there he was. We had fun snipping at each other, I showed him my tablet computer, he was enamoured it, found some of my "interesting comics," showed them to me, and I respond "well what were they supposed to do in the time chamber for a year?" Long story short, we went to his house, his parents left, leaving us alone, and since he was sweating heavily and not wearing deodorant, I could literally smell his pheromones. What we did together was the first time I actually enjoyed having fun doing it. I even enjoyed the cuddling afterwards.
I've realized over the years that either I'm immune to the effects of oxitocin, or I don't produce it. Before him, I had the theory that maybe my brain didn't have the receptors needed to enjoy those warm fuzzy feelings. Now I'm just not sure.
...
...
ReplyDeleteThis relates to the last post Zan made, I've never really enjoyed the backrubs people have given me. They were always painful, to the point that I've always jumped up like a cat. When people ask me about that, I just tell them that it's just my Asperger's acting up. That always surprises people, I've received it as an official diagnosis, but you wouldn't know it. Plausible Deniability, for the win.
And to relate to Daniel's comment, I sometimes have a label I can attach to me. I find one that suits my needs best, and it becomes real to me. I'm more than capable of seeing a cute girl and being turned on. If I pursue a relationship with her, I turn straight, because that would make it more preferable to sleep with her than if I was gay. Or bi if she likes that.
I wish sometimes to know what it would be like to feel the things others feel. Not just so I could hone my mask, but for the stimulation of it. There are some who have called me inhuman before, however I know that it is my desires for the things I do not have that make me human.
WHAT IN HADES GOOD NAME POSSESSED YOU TO CHOOSE THIS TERRIBLE LIGHTNING THEME?
ReplyDeleteLol.
ReplyDeletewhat in hades good name possessed you to write in all capslock?
ReplyDeleteI'm noticing a trend that makes me wonder if sociopaths generally have poor artistic and aesthetic skills.
ReplyDeleteLovely Miss Medusa: "I'm noticing a trend that makes me wonder if sociopaths generally have poor artistic and aesthetic skills."
ReplyDeleteI myself am great at art.
Also, have you seen Peter's works? They are quite marvelous.
Hey fucko, I'm no sociopath. Leave my masterpieces out of this.
ReplyDelete:P
ReplyDeletePeter, it's amusing to provoke you. I was generally referring to your art; I was not trying to say you are/were a sociopath.
I just have a general infatuation with your masterpieces. Why, oh why, have you seduced me, Mr. Wonderful?
You're just jealous. You're jealous of my awesome art and my awesome intelligence. That's why you like *trying* to provoke me. Because I'm awesome, and you're not. So there. Now, shower me with love and admiration.
ReplyDeletePP: ". . .So there."
ReplyDeleteDan trademarked this phrase a few posts back. He is now capable of suing you for copyright infringement.
PP: "Now, shower me with love and admiration."
Your pets don't do this enough for you? :(
Poor PP. . .
You're avoiding the fact that I'm due for some hardcore worshipping. Quit beating around the bush, and get on your knees.
ReplyDeletePP: "You're avoiding the fact that I'm due for some hardcore worshipping. Quit beating around the bush, and get on your knees."
ReplyDeleteYou should probably go after one of the S victims on this site if you're after that, PP.
Personally, I would start with Zan seeing as I find she can be quite intelligent. Her cheerful demeanor is also nice.
LOL.....well...............OK...............i guess it would be alright......but only if i could be the queen!
ReplyDeleteZan
How funny about the back rub thing. Such a small thing really, but I don’t care for them either. I don’t hate them, but that kind of touch does not feel pleasurable to me at all.
ReplyDeleteDeux and PP, guys, get a room already. Don’t forget to take the video camera.
Morrigans: You live in an Orthodox Jewish community? How interesting. So, do you believe in it or are you just there? Or do you know yet?
Hmmm...i was going to suggest that we double date, well, actually triple date. Morrigans if you can find a partner you can come too. I was thinking Dan, PP, 2, Grace, Zoe and moi. I don't know who wants to pair up with who. All I know is that I am the queen and whoever wants to be the king gets me. So, who's in? Morrigan, if someone isn't interested, your in, K? Sorry, but we just met and we have uneven partners. Let's hold off on the room, Dan, OK? Let's plan a real date. How bout the socio boys plan it. PP, if u don't agree with the plan then u revise it? If i don't agree, well, let's just say that the queen trumps all. OK, boys, where are we going?
ReplyDeleteZan
let's go gambling! Seems appropriate.
ReplyDeleteGrace
How about a funeral? I hear the suffering gets rather ripe around this time of the year.
ReplyDeleteAlso. . . Isn't Zoe male? I never could tell.
Grace, now gambling sounds fun. 2, a funeral, come on now, meet us emps half way would ya. I think Zoe is a female. Zoe what are you and are you coming on our date? I got that impression from one of her posts once, can't remember which one. I personally love roller coasters. What do you think, Dan? Are out now that the room idea has been postponed?
ReplyDeleteZan
2 said: "How about a funeral? I hear the suffering gets rather ripe around this time of the year."
ReplyDeleteOnly if it's yours 2.
just kidding..I can't even make joke like that.
I love roller coasters too Zan..Kinda Ka. lol
I think Zoe is female. A smart one too.
Grace
the point i was making was that in order to have satisfiying sex with someone surely there must be a physical desire for that to happen...or not??????are some of you out there that engage in it for the sake of it and not remotely turned on or feel any desire for the other person???? theres no winners in that scenario...
ReplyDeleteThat sounds awesome, guys. It'll be just like twilight.
ReplyDeleteGlad I'm not invited.
ReplyDelete(eats worms.)
ReplyDeleteZan: "2, a funeral, come on now, meet us emps half way would ya."
ReplyDeleteI can't help it that I find blabbering religious zealots to be amusing. :(
That aside, we could always go to the Eiffel Tower.
Grace: "Only if it's yours 2.
just kidding..I can't even make joke like that."
Aww, and that was a good joke, too. </3 My heart now breaks, Madam.
Grace: "I think Zoe is female. A smart one too."
Mmm. I kinda tend to agree with you, but let's see what Zoe thinks.. Lol.
PP: "That sounds awesome, guys. It'll be just like twilight."
Who would take the role of Edward? That eludes me, because Edward was way too emo for any of us.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCongrats Peter! Sounds like your not going to have much time for dating. OR possibly does this mean that you can now afford to fly us all to the Riviera for our date? Why did the man from corporate come down to assess your skills. Had he heard about you? Was your skill in particular demand? What is your skill if you don't mind me asking? It's always nice to read good news. Things can get a bit glum at times on this site. We need to keep the good vibes going!
ReplyDeleteZan
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteActually, I think I'd rather not spam any personal information on this site, no matter how vague I think it is. Sorry!
ReplyDeleteI hear that PP. But there really is no way for any of us to get personal info from here right? I had a paranoid thought that one of you socios might be my ex. Then to make it worse I thought he implanted a spy device in my car...he insisted on doing some work on my car before the break up. Weird right?
ReplyDeleteGrace
Well, Peter, who could blame you for wanting to share with your new found friends such good news! I totally understand your concern. I deleted my post that followed since it was very telling of yours. So much for the Riviera...
ReplyDeleteZan
Peter,
ReplyDeleteShoot! I thought I deleted my comment by clicking on the icon at the L top part of my comment but it did not delete. I didn't see any option for me to delete. I think that because I entered my comment under anonymous there is no option to delete. Your name lights up in blue enabling you to click on it. "Anonymous" does not light up. If you would like me to ask ME to remove my comment, I would be fine with doing so. Just let me know, K?
Zan
Hi Grace,
ReplyDeleteI hear ya! No that is not weird. I have had some paranoid thoughts about this site too. This site is very edgy and there is a sense of a bit of danger because of the sinister reputation as well as the intelligence of the sociopath. One can never really be sure what they are dealing with on a site like this and there is always a bit of a concern about whether you could be tracked down, especially given that this site is sponsored by a socio. It is a judgement call for sure. I have learned that I canot always trust my judgement, but in this case, I think ME seems to be a person that is living his life with strong consideration for the boundaries that are set by society in general. Of course I don't know him or what he does in his personal life, but he communicates in a thoughtful way that seems to consider the norm while explaining his perspecive, bringing out the diffence between the two in a non-threatening way. Hope that makes sense. Bottom line, I feel safe but there is always that little monkey in the back of my head that says "what if"? When one has a strong imagination, the monkey can get rather big at times...lol
Zan
Thanks Zan! To tell you the truth I didn't think ME would do anything like that because that would compromise what he has developed here. No I think he's pretty neutral about what he reads and just wants to give socios a place to communicate. It's the other peeps though. Or even you and I Zan..lol. We're undercover agents..Yeah right!!
ReplyDeleteSorry got so off the subject..what was the subject here anyway? omg
Grace
OK, Peter, I am going to even things out a bit. I have personal thing to share. I really could use some feedback on this one. I realize that it has nothing to do with the post but it seems that it doesn't seem to matter on this site. The conversation goes where it goes which I think is cool.
ReplyDeleteOK, what would you do in this situation? Say you share an office with 2 people. You drag yourself into work one day feeling horrible. You realize that you should have stayed home but you knew that your job could be on the line if you did. You drink lots of coffee, hoping that it will take away your extreme fatigue, but instead it makes it worse and on top of things you feel like your are going to jump out of your skin.
You can't do any work and you all you want to do is lay your head down on the desk. Then you think if I could just lay down for a couple of minutes it would give me what I need to get going. So you explain to your office mates how you are feeling and you lay down on the floor under your desk for about 10 minutes. You get up, feel better and get through the day.
1 week later, another co-worker brings up a picture that was taken of you as you were resting on the floor. I suppose it was suppose to be a joke, but I specifically asked that these people respect my confidence and I trusted them. The other office mate had nothing to do with this. I am concerned that the picture that my office mate who I obviously did not know as well will somehow be used against me in the future resulting in the loss of my job, bribery etc. You cannot see my face in the picture so I could deny that it is me. I am considering going to my boss and spilling the beans before there is any opportunity for this. If I do that, it is likely that she will be fired because of the fact that she shared it with other co-workers and it was a violation of my privacy. She is already in hot water with the management. If you were me what would you do? Please don't say that I shouldn't have lied down on the floor in the first place. That is a given, but if you had felt as lousy as I did that day, you would have possibly done the same thing. I felt so physically ill that i thought i wasn't gonna make it. Have you ever had a day like that?
Zan
Zan, not that you asked me but you could ask this person why they did that, if they have some intentions with it and you could mention it was wrong on their part to do that. Don't say anything negative about yourself lying under the desk...after all that's no ones business. If your boss saw this then that's between you and the boss. If you don't feel comfortable with that..then you can just go to your boss and ask to have a confidential conversation with him/her. Make sure you say confidential. Or better yet go to your HR manager if there is one. Let them direct you. Tell what happened and how you were feeling ill. You don't have to say you were sleeping under the desk don’t get specific...just say you put your head down..which is true. You can say "I'm letting you know because I fear it will get to you behind my back and that will cause you, as in you, embarrassment. They may ask who took it..that's a tough call to make. Chances are if this person brings it to the boss they will get in trouble for taking the picture. If they went to the boss and told them about it without a picture that might be different. The picture is inappropriate behavior on your co worker..period. I would have that conversation first though..feel them out and see how they react…just make it clear to them if they show it to anyone they will get in trouble…make it their problem more than yours because it is.
ReplyDeleteBut Zan how the hell did you fit under the desk..lol. don’t answer that. I fell asleep during calculus class last semester and fell out of the chair. I was so embarrassed but the prof quickly stopped the kiddy classmates from laughing. But that five minutes made a big difference.
Grace.
Thanks Grace! That's great advice. I was leaning in the direction of doing what you suggested. That is probably what I will do.
ReplyDelete"But Zan how the hell did you fit under the desk..lol."
You'd be amazed at the places you will fit and your willingness to contort your body accordingly when you are feeling ill and exausted at work!
"I fell asleep during calculus class last semester and fell out of the chair."
OMG, Grace that is my biggest nightmare! Glad you overall got some benefit from the sleep even though it was a rude awakening...lol.
Thanks for the advice AND YES I was asking you. Have a great day!
Zan
If your relationship with your boss is good, just be honest about it. Tell him you needed to lay down for a few minutes to make sure you were OK to keep working, but make sure you start the story off by showing him how embarrassed you are.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that I'd mention that you asked your coworker to keep it in confidence. That sounds like a shady deal gone bad, and I think you'd get less sympathy that way.
In my opinion it's always best that your superiors hear anything negative about you from you first. Just try not to make it seem like you're only doing it because you would've been "caught" anyway. Keep the focus on your embarrassment, which is where your focus is anyway, right?
People frequently go wrong trying to hide things, overcompensating with their justifications, keeping too many secrets, etc. There's very little a boss likes less than an employee he can't trust.
If you're worried about the other employee getting fired, let your boss know that you don't think he means any harm by it. If he gets fired anyway, tough cookies for him. He's the one spreading embarrassing photos and putting you in a difficult situation. IMHO he's forcing your hand.
I would like to follow that up by saying that I wouldn't leave this in your coworker's hands, especially considering what he's already done. Unless you're good pals, I wouldn't talk to him about it before covering your ass. If things don't go well, that conversation could quickly turn into a race for an audience with the boss, and that will look very bad.
ReplyDeleteZan let us know how it went. Good advise PP to Zan. That's a strange situation to be in. I would have to ask for help on that one too.
ReplyDeleteGrace.
Thank you PP and Grace! I will definitely let you know what the outcome is.
ReplyDelete"That's a strange situation to be in. I would have to ask for help on that one too."
I am a total magnet for weird situations like this. I think it's because I tend to like eccentric people. Often I write them off as simply eccentric, begin to trust them and form what I think are meaningful relationships, only to learn that their eccentricity is really "personality disordered". There are plenty of personality disordered people that are harmless and fine to be around but when you start talking borderline, just about anything can happen. Sorry, if there are any BL's reading, but my personal experiences have not been good, but, hey, who am i? Just Zan...
Z
"Often I write them off as simply eccentric, begin to trust them and form what I think are meaningful relationships, only to learn that their eccentricity is really "personality disordered"."
ReplyDeleteThat's interesting Zan. But how do you come to learn that? How do you know it's a bp disorder? I know some characteristics are fear of being abandoned, anger, moods, etc..are you talking about the unpredictability part of it..I don't know too much about it. Can sociopaths have this disorder?
Grace
Grace,
ReplyDeleteSince my last relationship I have done a ton of research into personality disorders. I knew nothing about them but was amazed when I researched the subject how prevalant PD's are. I was dismayed to find out how incredibly disfunctional my family is most likely due to PD's. Of course I am not a psychiatrist and it is not my place to diagnose but once you have learned the traits they are very easy to spot. As a ER nurse, I dealt with PD's all the time but for many years I did not realize that that is what I was dealing with. Many people with PD's cover it up with alcohol and drugs. The psychiatric world does not really address PD's enough because they are seen as just about impossible to treat and are therefore essentially ignored. In nursing school they briefly touched on BP but did not mention sme of the biggies like narcissistic personality disorder, sociopathology etc. Many people are affected by these personality types in ways that are quite devastating and they have no clue about what they have been hit with. I grew up with NPD and had an extremely difficult childhood because of the person that was affected. Many people who have one personality disorder have a mix of them. Bipolar mood disorder is not considered a personality disorder but rather a mental illness because it can be treated with medication. The PD's cannot be treated with meds unless there are certain symptoms that can be managed, like compulsive behavior etc. Most of the PD's are not treatable because they are satisfied with how they are. They don't think they have a problem. They feel that the problem is everyone else. The other scenario is that they know something is not right but they can't identify it. They just have a feeling that they are different somehow. Personally I don't think they know enough about PD's to make any kind of statement that it is untreatable. I do think that there are those that have some introspection and want to fit in as contributing members of society. It's the ones that are always causing drama and creating problems for others that spoil it for the rest. These are just my personal thoughts. I am not a professional, just someone who has eperienced and read alot. So, take what you can use and leave the rest. I agree, Grace, it is very interesting! I tend to feel bad for people affected because from what I have observed it can be a rough life. They don't really understand themselves and as a result others cannot understand them either.
Zan
I have a Borderline Personality Disorder and, honestly, we're not all dangerous and unpredictable except, perhaps, to ourselves! I have read your comments on the site with interest and I must confess that given your battles with your emotions and your obsession with your ex I came to the conclusion that you may have some borderline traits. I hope you don't take this as an insult, it isn't intended as such, just food for thought. I have a sociopathic ex (diagnosed) and it was the insanity that exploded in the aftermass that lead to me being diagnosed as BPD. The attraction between BPD and sociopathy is fascinating to me!
ReplyDeleteTake care
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI don't take offense at all. Can you be more specific as to what things that I have discussed that have lead you to wonder that? I do think that any normal person who finds out that they have been in love with a fraud for 3 years would be devastated to the point of temporary insanity. I know from therapy that this is the case and that there are some people that never truly recover from such a situation. I do believe that it is a bit of a stretch to say that it is because of BPD. Possibly you could say I went temporarily borderline...lol.
I also believe that the attraction between personality types is very fascinating. How do you know you have BPD? Were you officially diagnosed?
I know that I can be sensitive. I also know that I am at 2 opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to trust. I either trust too easily or I am not trusting enough of others. I know that I had a very difficult childhood which left me with many things to overcome. It is very difficult to see yourself sometimes. I don't think I have BPD, but who knows. I have read about it and there were aspects that I could relate to. I agree, not all BP's are dangerous. I appreciate your honesty and the kind way that you sugested the possibiliy of me having borderline traits. I will read up on this some more. I hope not but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I am what I am, whatever lable I carry. I know who I am and if it falls into some labled category, so be it. I know I am a good person that tries to be the best I can.
Zan
To Zan
ReplyDeleteI believe you're absolutely right to suggest that any 'normal person' in your situation would be devastated and I'm not saying that you may have a full blown borderline personality disorder, just some of the painful traits. I vaguely remember a discussion you had (I think it was with Daniel Birdick - not sure?) about your emotions and how you wanted to be able to take a step back from them, not allowing them to rule you and completely influence your judgement. I suppose that's when I started thinking along the lines of borderline traits as the disorder is predominantly an emotional one, leading to rotten judgment and sometimes irrational behaviour.
It was after the 'socio' situation that I officially 'lost it' and was referred to psychiatric services and henceforth labelled 'borderline' (a label I'm not comfortable with - I hate being squashed into 9 neat boxes!). 'Socio boy' never knew how much he had affected me - thank god - he would have had a royal feast on my pain! I believe the attraction between us was based on my weird and exaggerated emotions and his total lack of them - somehow, for a very short period of time we just seemed to 'fit'.
This was all quite some time ago and with age and therapy I have stabilised considerably. He didn't cause my disorder, my rotten childhood did. He just brought it back up to the surface (I suppose he did me a favour on reflection).
I suggested the possibility of BPD traits to you because of the afore mentioned thread I read between you and DB. I don't know if you've heard of it but there is a particularly effective treatment for BPD (and related traits) called DBT (dialectical behaviour therapy). This helps to regulate emotions and to reconcile emotions with reason. I thought that, perhaps, some of the practices involved would be of some use to you in helping you to overcome some of the pain related to your emotions.
Take care of you.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry that you had to go through it too. It does sound like the dynamics of both our situations are similar. Thank you for the DBT recommendation. I will read about it and if I think it would be useful, I will check it out. You take care also.
Zan
I'm not sure that the above is true for you but it’s up to you to look into it. Just know that many people could fall into this category and a lot of us could use a little DBT now and then. It just helps bring awareness to emotions and behavior so we can be objective about what's really going on within us and see our overactive selves. I am guilty of letting my emotions rule my day no doubt but the sensibility in me always returns. So don't think there is something wrong with you that we all have trouble with and that is pretty “normal”.
ReplyDeleteI know a woman who suffered from this disorder big time and it was hard to diagnose and treat until her therapist realized what she had. She was a mess..suicidal, blaming everyone for her problems, reacting to hurt feelings all the time and all that jazz. She ended up in a 12 step program that pretty much set her straight. You don’t communicate like that here but only you would know.
Grace
Zan
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that the above is true for you but it’s up to you to look into it. Just know that many people could fall into this category and a lot of us could use a little DBT now and then. It just helps bring awareness to emotions and behavior so we can be objective about what's really going on within us and see our overactive selves. I am guilty of letting my emotions rule my day no doubt but the sensibility in me always returns. So don't think there is something wrong with you that we all have trouble with and that is pretty “normal”.
I know a woman who suffered from this disorder big time and it was hard to diagnose and treat until her therapist realized what she had. She was a mess..suicidal, blaming everyone for her problems, reacting to hurt feelings all the time and all that jazz. She ended up in a 12 step program that pretty much set her straight. You don’t communicate like that here but only you would know.
Grace.
this may post twice..don't know why I don't see it from the first time.
Thank you Grace for your support. I don't think I am borderline because even though I can be quite emotional, I blame myself more than others for things. I have been guilty in the past of blaming my parents for things, but, I in many ways I believe that the blame was warranted. One can only blame parents for so long before they get a grip, make an attempt to understand their situation and do the work required to get their head screwed back on straight. I am rather introspective and almost always have looked for my part in things. I try to make ammends when it is called for. When I was in my 20's, I was a mess. I could have easily been thought of as borderline but I think it was more emotional confusion related to all the trauma and abuse I had been through as a child. Lables are a scary thing. Everyone comes from such different places and we don't fit so easily in one nice little neat box. I think I opened up a can of worms when I brought up bordeline PD. I appologize for that. One cannot generalize about any one group of people and I was wrong to do that. I really was just trying to share my experience with that dx and in doing so I lumped all BD's together. Big mistake. Please accept my apology.
ReplyDeleteZan