Narcissism = lack of self awareness
From
The Mirror Effect by Drs. Drew Pinsky and S. Mark Young:
The key to understanding the narcissism myth is not that he fell in love with himself, but that he failed to recognize himself in his own reflection. In other words, true narcissists are not self-aware.
A real narcissist is dissociated from his or her true self; he feels haunted by chronic feelings of loneliness, emptiness, and self-loathing and seeks to replace that disconnection with a sense of worth and importance fueled by others.
Narcissism is also marked by a profound lack of empathy, a fundamental inability to understand and connect with the feelings of others. Taken together, these are the traits psychologists measure in diagnosing what's known as narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
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From The Mirror Effect by Drs. Drew Pinsky and S. Mark Young:
that's not a bad description.
ReplyDeletethe ones i've known saw themselves, and have described themselves, as very empathic, feeling individuals, frustrated that they are misunderstood by everyone.
they have difficulty operating in "real time". it's like they're locked in their own private world. when empathy is called for they behave resentfully, as if they're being invaded. then when it's not called for they're inexplicably dishing it out.
they're like snow globe people, locked in their own little worlds. they don't have relationships with the real people around them, but with their images (which they construct). and they just hate it when forced to deal with the real person rather than the image. when their idea of who you are is challenged, i guess it undermines their reality and ultimately their own identity.
the biggest difference, to me, between a sociopath and narcissist is the narcissist can never be everything you want or need them to be. a sociopath plays you you, but you have to play to the narcissist.
are npd and aspd unrelated dirorders or are they somehow tied to one another? anyone know?
ReplyDeleteBlu, if you're looking for experts, you're not going to find any here. Most of the people here make their assumptions based on a behaviouralist/functionalist perspective of people with NPD/ASPD, which is markedly different from actually knowing what it is like to be either psychologically.
ReplyDeleteYou're not going to learn much about me from a manic depressive, nor can you trust that anything I or anyone else tells you is the truth.
you can learn from lies too.
ReplyDeleteGreat point, Zoe!
ReplyDeleteZan
thank you Zan. i think it's safe to say that not everything we read here is a lie, but what people do lie about is always revealing.
ReplyDeletenor can you trust that anything I or anyone else tells you is the truth.
are you telling me the truth now Ishtar? :)
Now why would I ever lie? ;)
ReplyDeleteRight on the money Zoe. I am a so-called narcissist in recovery (can a narcissist ever be reformed?), and everything said here is eerily true about myself.
ReplyDeleteWhat I've learned from my own experience is that narcissists are blind to their own blindness. Overcoming that blindness is an insurmountable task because they're operating within a system that constantly confirms their views and opinions.
Check said: Narcissists are....
ReplyDelete"blind to their own blindness."
I'm also a male N, 61 years old and frustrated as hell that there is no way to overcome this curse.
It has destroyed my marriage after 32 years, It has destroyed my successful commercial real estate enterprises over the past ten years and I am now significantly wounded by this fatal flaw as to finally be self aware, but it is too late. I will not be able to recover and there is little therapy can do for me and other N's. No one can understand how depressing this has all become. To think I have come through life knowing I was a little different, but finally understanding why,after multiple life crises is devastating. I have concluded I have no hope and no future.
While there is breath, there is hope.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous-I am so impressed that you are a recovering N! I should say that that in itself should give you hope! You can only move forward from here. My mother-in-law is a severe Narccisist and I constantly wonder whether she will ever become self-aware. She has alienated herself from her entire family by her behavior. May I ask how you came to be on this journey? (Does not have to include details! I am just so excited to read that people CAN recover from NPD or being an N! And I am in no way trying to criticize you-I have my own "slough" of problems...depression, panic disorder, and ADHD to name a few! None of us are perfect! ;) thanks so much! erikaj@aol.com. Please email if interested!
ReplyDelete(different Anonymous writing here)
ReplyDeleteI'm what's known as a covert narcissist, and only recently have come to terms with this to a greater or lesser degree. Discovering that everything about my appearance or attitude is fraudulent, an act, is a tough pill to swallow.
Zoe said Ns have difficulty operating in real time; this makes sense to me as I repeat (possible) scenarios from the past or future over and over in different iterations as to prepare myself to the possible outcomes. (Unrealistic/heroic possibilities for my amusement are latched on)
When I encounter something that hasn't been evaluated beforehand I have to fall back on my (more?) true self of someone who is a much more fragile person, open to attacks -real or perceived, or retreat from the situation if possible. When this happens, the mind goes into overdrive afterwards to ascertain what the hell went wrong with the 'script'.
Check mentioned Ns being blind to their own blindness. The scary part of this is: after having become (somewhat) aware, when you _do_ try to confront yourself one day, the defense mechanism quickly activates and tries to rationalize and split off, all the textbook techniques to keep the 'ego' in tact. "Why feel bad when you can delude yourself with distortions so you can feel better?" goes the insidious subconscious mantra. Another 'awesome' one: "It's not me, it's them!"
What Anon/61 said about awareness, I myself have also* wondered if I would've been better off just being blissfully unaware going through life (sorry if I misinterpreted*) but that's no longer a luxury I can permit. It feels like having walked the wrong way for the last 30 years only to hear the way to Rome isn't north but south and I have to backtrack all the way, the best accomplishment being able to manage this.
Within me there is a desire to belong, to just get along and stop being a right-fighter/imposing my black & white logic onto others. I can only imagine what a tremendous load off my shoulders that would be, no longer having to pretend or fish for what is called narcissistic supply, and just be 'me'.