Monday, March 8, 2010

On love

I've been in love before. It's been a while, though. I recently watched a film that got me thinking about it -- all about young romantic love and the heartache and the emptiness, and the relentless longing that accompanies it. I was watching it with a good friend, and we both agreed that although film was supposed to glorify love, it made love seem horrible, completely unpalatable -- like a disease. I felt for the characters. I have always been able to identify better with characters in a film than with most of the characters in my real life -- I guess filmmakers deserve the awards and accolades we give them. But more than that, I recognized the characters. I saw in their behavior things I had seen before in people who had been in love with me.

I recognized the facial expressions and the behavior of the people in the film. I'd seen them before: the unrestrained attachment, the devotion, the loss of self, the anxiety, the jealousies, the fear -- above all I recognized the fear. Love really is horrible that way. Even if you love someone and they love you back and you can spend time together, and there are no hindrances or obstacles keeping you from being together, there is always the worry that the person will leave you, or change, or both. I have wondered before how empaths could commit such violent crimes of passion -- I caught a glimpse of how while watching this film.

I could see how the crime of passion starts much earlier than coming home to find your cheating spouse in bed with another. It starts when you have substituted everything else in your world for this person in the sense that this is the one person whose life or death could mean your own. I know that love is helplessness. I feel helplessness when in love, and I can only imagine that to an empath it feels like there is no choice, no volition, that you are no longer the master of your own destiny. You are a prisoner, a slave. I think some people begin to resent that loss of control. I could see how for some love could quickly turn to hate. And why not? Is not the object of your love also the source of your torture? Of an unbearable pain? A heaviness in your life that can only be relieved when in the beloved's presence? You could weep a thousand tears and there would still be no relief.

I wonder about these people who loved me. I'm curious about how they felt about me, and how they feel about me now. Was I faithless in their eyes? Uncontrollable? Was I their life's sorrow? Was i quickly forgotten? Did they always know what or why they were feeling? Did they hate me for it? I've actually stayed in touch with one of them -- we've managed to stay very good friends, trusted confidantes, and I know I'm not the only one who asks these questions. Why love? Why you? Why not anymore? Was there any purpose? Any gain? Apart from months and even years of their affliction, what was it all for?

And yet I yearn to be in contact with all my other loves: those who have moved on, and (to a lesser extent?) those who have not. I don't know what i want from them -- maybe just to have them acknowledge it, just to see behind the curtain into their minds eye. It's a symptom of this new age of media that we have little patience for unknowns. We're so used to having our questions answered, near instantly. I would give anything to watch those times together from their point of view, to be inside my lover's minds when it was all happening. More than anything, I want to feel the depth of their ache for me. I want to know that it was/is real just like I am real. Somehow I feel that it is their ache that defines me, that that is who I am. But their ache, their nauseousness, their fear, their void seem to say so little about who they are as people, and so much about who I am as a person. I created that ache. I caused that pain. Is that why people want to be in love? So they can hurt someone in a way so completely original and unique to them? So they can feel real?

56 comments:

  1. such a sad testimony of someone who can't even begin to understand what love is...
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  2. Why do people want to be in love? So they can hurt someone? Uh no, these are such strange questions and in asking them they do give a small picture of the differences in thinking of socios and the rest of the population.

    Have you ever seen the film Realm of the Senses? Not even sure how to describe the characters in this film. Socios? I don't know but love in this film is depicted as a love for which I have no point of reference.
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  3. 10/10 for effort
    9/10 for execution
    2/10 for preparation
    would have worked on any love forum but you posted it as a known psychopath. Major point deductions, tut tut.
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  4. This post equates love to an addiction; a more than adequate description of it coming from someone who's out for personal gain. When in love, one craves for the effect the other gives him. The more he is given it, the more he needs to keep the effect, all the while knowing it is destroying him. He is willing to do just about anything to keep the "high" (helplessness). And of course, when all is said and done, he needs the satisfaction of knowing that he is the other's drug as well.
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  5. Anyone can be in love ..but love that matters is an additiction...i wouldn't want it any other way..as far as the anon grader above, the fact that this post is on a sociopath blog gains points..who says tut tut anyway?
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  6. Interesting perspective, M.E.
    You MIGHT be a tad more insightful than I thought. Not saying anything about accuracy, but it is interesting nonetheless.

    Can you write about how you feel and what goes through your mind when you are being 'intimate' with someone???
    (before, during, after would be great) lol.
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  7. I have asked ME to discuss some of this stuff a few times, just one on one via aim or something.

    why?
    cause i am at a crossroads in my head, some days i just think practical, logical, and when i do its not a good thing... i need some help with my code. love either fucks up the code or makes the code.... i dont know yet.

    i know i love, but i dont understand why.

    i dont know why most of my life has been consumed with one woman.

    i dont know why i cant function today.

    i dont know why i am so damn sad, i am not supposed to be. i am caught. busted. and screwed, but in a better personal space than ever. so explain that folks.
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  8. I once read somewhere that people only cry once they feel safe. If that's true, then maybe you feel this way because you are finally able to let your guard slip. I find that when I tell one of my closer friends a "secret" of mine, I often have a hard time thinking straight--at least until I know how it will pay off. Like I'm standing there naked while they size me up.
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  9. People cry when they feel safe?

    What kind of bullshit are you reading, and moreover, believing?
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  10. Yes, people cry when they feel safe. When they do not feel they must pretend to be a threat or predator. I have never seen someone shed a tear when they felt that they had their back against the wall and had to fight or die. Nor when they felt they had an image to protect and maintain. Only when the threat had passed, when they had some sort of comfort. Unless you have a counterexample?
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  11. how about when you're scared, frustrated, angry, or disappointed? or when someone close to you dies?
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  12. that’s a great post by M.E..

    if change is the enemy of love, love is the enemy of self. at least that’s what it feels like to me. when i am in love there is only room for the other in my thoughts. the other person is not just real, but the only real. it’s like having your home invaded by some important guest and you have to be always on your best behavior and go around picking up after them and yourself. love always feels like a mental illness to me. and there is a small part of me that’s secretly relieved when it’s over and i have my self back to myself. even if i miss them and wish they would come back, it’s nice to have my home all to myself again.

    being in love feels as if the old you has been suddenly replaced by a new you that exists only to receive inputs and signals from the other, and only functions to transmit signals back to them. the other person is all your hopes and dreams and needs and wants in human form. love can be a self-indulgent exercise. you know it’s real thing when the brain chemicals wear off and you see through the image the real person underneath, and you want to keep looking.
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  13. I think if you really love someone.. you care about what is in the best interests of the person, as that person makes known. Like that sting song says, if you love someone set them free.
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  14. Ah, teenage love. Or trailer trash love. Either way, great job. Keep trying. You'll get there some day.
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  15. Yo M.E. you've got a real flair for writing. Real talent. But not so flowery eh? You're supposed to be a modernist almost by definition.

    Check out Anna Karenina for something like you wrote here.
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  16. Also anyone ever heard anyone say Proust was a Sociopath? Seems possible to me. Might seem silly at first till you go read his stuff with that thought in mind.
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  17. Hi I am truly confused about all this talk of sociopaths actually understanding love or being in love, all the literature points to the fact that sociopaths have no feels and therefore cannot love!!! Please clarify, can sociopaths feel love, fall in love or not???

    Thanks
    M
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  18. "how about when you're scared, frustrated, angry, or disappointed? or when someone close to you dies?"

    You aren't going to show your weakness if you feel threatened, are you?
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  19. apologies, meant to say "sociopaths have no feelings".

    Thanks
    M
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  20. i would have to say that i 'understand' love. i would say i have been in love but am i really? i can read people, i know what they are feeling even if they can't completely understand what they are feeling. so with that in mind, am i just going off what i know others feel or is it my own feeling? does it really matter either way as long as i am 'feeling' it?

    as far as the tears when safe comment, i also disagree. i have seen people cry when they were NOT safe. when the woman who is being raped by a stranger and crying in fear, does she feel safe? probably not.
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  21. when i feel safe i usually feel happy, at ease and at peace. i think tears generally indicate sadness, though tears could also be due to gratitude to that which creates the safe feeling, which may indicate that one may have felt unsafe previously.
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  22. sociogirl,

    A female socio 'friend' told me when I encouraged her to find a new boyfriend (well actually a new someone that could fund her) She replied, "I don't fall in love easily." Is it love that doesn't come easily for her ? If not what was she referring to?
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  23. love is irrelevant to a boyfriend. do you mean fund her financially? that doesn't require love either. is she currently with a boyfriend that she needs a new one? if so, perhaps she isn't done with that one yet?

    a boyfriend is merely something to do to keep you occupied. i guess it depends on what you hope her outcome to be or really what the situation has to offer.

    i personally find a boyfriend, get him to fall in love quickly (all his idea) then drain him to no end. he cannot escape. it keeps me entertained until he becomes mush then i find him boring and walk away. perhaps i dont fall in love easily either? lol

    actually, no, i have 'loved'and i find it only causes pain. so for me its better not to love. but like i said, depends on her situation and why she 'needs' a new boyfriend.
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  24. People cry when they feel helpless. They resist it until they can cry without exposing their vulnerability, as that would only make them even more vulnerable. Sometimes those feelings of helplessness are too powerful to fight, and then you quite frequently see people cry whether or not they feel safe.

    Whoever said people only cry when they feel safe is an idiot.
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  25. sociogirl,

    Yes to fund her financially. She doesn't have a current boyfriend. But she has an ex-boyfriend that she has convinced him is like her brother now, like family. And of course she uses the needy, incapable pity thing to keep the $ flowing her way. She is bored with him on the personal level (sex/romance/whatever else that entails). I was trying to get her to move on to someone else. He refuses to see he was and is being used (ego I guess hard to face)
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  26. People may cry when they feel a loss of control, but they aren't going to do it when there is an immediate threat. In the case of a rape, most accounts I have heard recall a total mental shutdown. They didn't cry or scream, just tried to block it out. This is one of the body's natural defenses against that which we cannot mentally or physically handle. Those that do include crying always come with the justification that they were appealing to the humanity of their attacker. Putting their safety in his hands. This is not the same thing as crying when threatened. It's a hope (which must first be rooted in faith, not fear) that the tears will lead one to safety.
    And 11:23, ad hominems are fallacious arguments.
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  27. Nice, so anyone saying anything bad about anyone else is automatically wrong. Chalk one up for Mr. Logic.

    You've really never seen anyone run out of a room crying, completely crushed that people have seen them in such a state? Such confidence in such an obviously false point of view is pretty humorous.

    Do you do birthdays?
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  28. That doesn't make it automatically wrong. I may very well be an idiot; most idiots don't know that they are. But attacking my character doesn't make my point any less valid. And again, if a person feels they are in immediate threat, they will not cry. If they are running out of a room crying, then they obviously feel that they are not in immediate danger. Their threat level has gone down enough to let the tears through. Discomfort (embarrassment) is not the same as fear. And if you want to make an appointment, I'm here through Saturday. Contact my agent.
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  29. Mr. Logic, when did I say that you being an idiot made your point any less valid than it already is? Come on, now, you're mixing up your cause and effect, probably just so you have something to say. Show them teeth, boy. Grrrr!

    Listen here. A real logical fallacy is looking at something in the world and saying, "Well, if x is true, then y must obviously be true, because I'm arguing that y is always true when x is. Thus your point is invalid."

    Let's just agree to disagree, Mr. Logic.
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  30. anonymous....it sounds to me like you are more concerned with the guy. if he doesnt want to see it then she still has him. she will eventually get bored enough to find someone new.
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  31. sociogirl

    you are correct I am concerned with the guy not her. I think she is bored with him, it's just exploitive at this point- money, shelter occasionally, food, etc. he's her bitch basically. Eh I'm the one that needs to move on obviously.
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  32. Does anyone really no what love is its a very strange emotion, ppl i believe ive loved in the past i no longer love and im so glad im not with.

    I think a sociopath can love just that he has buried deep this emotion, basically to protect him from the pain it can cause, if this feeling ever awakes in them they would be in turmoil as they have no idea about real feelings.
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  33. I have problems with labeling love an emotion. Emotions are flighty, even to the empath. I believe that love may be accompanied by emotions, but that it is instead a state one lives in. A state of action and motion. For example, many people (myself included) claim to love God. They don't love him because they feel it; they feel because they love Him. The same principle applies to interpersonal relationships. Not loving someone you once did is makig a decision to not care on a deep level anymore.
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  34. C

    I was reading an article as to why people get 'attached' it's because of the 'bonding' hormone and neurotransmitter Oxytocin. In the article it was said that sociopaths do not have the receptors for Oxytocin.
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  35. i just realized something...u said she uses him financially but she must give something in return? for my boyfriend, i cook for him and buy him stuff he likes and gets excited about and help him fix things etc....so he thinks i'm great as do others....but my intentions are different than other peoples...my intentions are not so much to make him happy but to create a false sense of security so that later i can weaken him and take away what he currently thinks he has.
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  36. Anon,

    Can you post a link to the article? I've thought about that exact thing before, but as I've only just begun to research into sociopathy, I haven't quite found anything to support it. I'm not entirely sold on this as of yet since sociopaths do seem to enjoy friendships on some level, even if only for personal gain/enjoyment. But loyalty can come in other forms as well (again, God, country, ethnicity, etc.). I'm not sure if this kind of "love" is the result of Oxytocin.
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  37. sociogirl

    She feeds his ego and makes a bunch of empty promises and seriously not much more than that. To me, it's bizarre seriously it is. Also I think he keeps her in reserve so to speak.

    It is very one sided except now thinking about it, not many women would put up with his personality but she does in exchange for advice-hes a lawyer, his money and transportation at times. He is very intelligent but he is very selfish about most things but not about money or those type things. He wants to be the center of attention always so hes a perfect fit for a sociopath.
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  38. C

    I'll see if I can locate a better source but here are a couple of links, read the last few paragraphs for the info on oxytocin:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-moral-molecule/200811/how-run-con

    the last paragraph here:

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_there_any_physical_symptoms_for_a_sociopath
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  39. Thanks, it was interesting. I won't claim to be an expert on this subject as loving someone does not come easily to me, and when it does come, it is the result of the pleasure I take in another's company (the power struggle, the witty banter, the sex, etc.). As a result, I'll invest time and energy into the relationship and see if it pays off. Mutual give and take. Lose now, win later. That sort of thing. The "bond" I have with that person is directly proportional to how much time and energy I spend. I don't like to see hard work go to waste.

    Thanks for the input though.
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  40. C

    Order some Oxytocin spray and for arguments sake, give it a try and see what happens. Nonscientific of course but it would be interesting.

    http://oxytocinspray.homestead.com/

    Looking for the other article I'll post it when I locate it.
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  41. con

    here is another link to a mp3 file re research. You may find it interesting.

    http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/media/2006-2007/mp3/qq-2006-09-30d.mp3
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  42. haha, maybe your lawyer friend is a socio as well and its socio vs socio...my favorite topic! in that case, there is no winner. they will continue to use eachother and be in a constant mode of one-uping the other just to see who is better at it.
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  43. sociogirl,

    You think so? I know he's an egotist and loves the flattery, it's almost nauseating to observe. It's very odd. Funny today he made a biting remark to me, I turned it around and said Oh like you and (the sociopath) since you're her benefactor, guess we're both fools. That made him so upset.
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  44. Anonymous said...
    "how about when you're scared, frustrated, angry, or disappointed? or when someone close to you dies?"

    You aren't going to show your weakness if you feel threatened, are you?

    no. but if i don't feel threatened does it mean i am feeling safe? then again, we have to feel safe to reveal feelings that make us feel vulnerable, and crying makes most people feel vulnerable.
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  45. Zoe

    Crying can also be a way to get pity from others.
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  46. okay then crying might be a good idea when feeling threatened. seems like it could go either way, depending on the threat.
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  47. yes i def think he could be otherwise he would be worn down as person and basically a big ball of mush if she was truely working him.

    crying can be for many reasons...pity, threatened, safe (tears of joy), anger, or even just to fit in because you are in a situation that requires it....such as a funeral.
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  48. sociogirl

    Hmm.. he is rather worn down in many aspects. She's known him a long time and has a lot of time to observe him and what makes him tick. Odd too that he doesn't or refuses to see that every person she has been involved with (other than him) just cannot stand her. She's been sued several times, lost many business partners. Pissed a LOT of people off of course nothing is ever her fault. Now that I understand what she is in a way there are times I wish I hadn't cut her off as observing their interactions is rather interesting.
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  49. then get her back in your life. i'm fairly certain that would be easy to do, especially being aware of what she is and what she is doing. just "work" her.
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  50. sociogirl

    I'll have to consider this as every time I have let her back in she goes so overboard. It's just too, too much. She sucks the life out of me and is so irritating but if I distance myself emotionally and don't permit myself to become angry at the things she says that are meant to piss me off then possibly I can deal.

    Now tell me what you mean by 'work' her? How that would work day by day?
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  51. get her before she gets you. play the same games. it will either intrigue her or bore her but if you play your cards right, she will be intrigued which can make for some fun.

    what is it that she does?
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  52. sociogirl,

    I should tell you that the man she exploits is my current SO. What she does is she worms her way in at our condo to do laundry, eat, bathe, crash. She leaves 'items' in my car or at my condo to IMO have another connection to return. She asks to be transported to her myriad of errands and she is totally cavalier with everyone's time and money.

    She bombards him and sometimes me with text messages and phone calls when her life is in crisis which is often to evoke his sympathy to get yes more money and 'help'. He has an odd sense of responsibility and pity for her which of course fits very well into her plans. Her family has totally cut her off so 'we' are her family. But the most irritating is that she will cause trouble by bringing up things he does to me to get me upset or make comments without any emotion whatsoever to cause trouble either about me personally, about my adult kids, about he does things, on and on. Often she will play him and me against each other. She's a royal pain in the ass.
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  53. ooook, you could always make her "look" crazy. like next time she says to you something he said be like "oh i know, he's so funny" (so it sounds unimportant to you becauswe your relationship is stronger than that then tell her immediately after, "you should of heard what he said about YOU!" then laugh again and tell her something that would cause her to end up running to him angrily. when she does and he denies it then you are questioned about it, just be like oh no thats not what i said, she misunderstood, and say what you meant but in a nice way that she clearly misunderstood.

    if you keep doing that type stuff, she looks like shes trying something and is nuts. also, as you are telling her this stuff, make sure you go to him and be again be cool about it and be like wow, she told me you said this and that and i just laughed cuz i know you would never do that. he then thinks she is trying to break you two up.

    make up good stories but make sure it is something they would believe. not too extravagant or they will see through you. invite her over, make her dinner, your generosity will confuse her. and really, if you love this guy and he loves you, she can't come between you. have confidence! be aloof! be trusting! no one can break through that unless there is room for it to be broken.
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  54. sociogirl,

    thanks, for the clarification, funny she did something to me very very similar. She told me that my SO believed something very disgusting about me and my adult son. I didn't believe it and it totally pissed me off and I let her know it pissed me off, I didn't believe he said or believed this. I told her anyone who believed such a thing was out of their f'ing mind. Later I told my SO about it calmly and said she had said he believed this, he said he had zero clue where she got that idea.

    It was soon after this I told him I thought she had a personality disorder (I hadn't come to the conclusion she was a socio at that point) and he thought I was being ugly about her and he was NOT happy with me so she's not been to our condo since.

    I've always been very very nice to her and treated her well other than the time I just related to you.

    Appreciate your input!
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  55. I'd say after a serious relationship with a sociopath (the empath was in love).

    Then you could expect they would feel a lot of hate and resentment for making them love you. Giving them hopes and then dashing them. I'd say it's one of the worst things you can do to an empath. But on realising that's just the way the sociopath think, there is a lot of pity and again a small amount of hope that they could feel and appreciate the same things that we do.

    To us there is nothing more important in life then being loved for who you really are.

    I expect most sociopaths would either mock or just couldn't grasp why this is.

    They will think of you, despite the all of the hate and regret at being duped. They still care and hope you could one day partially feel what we did during the relationship. If we are indifferent towards you either we are acting and don't care anymore.

    Hate means we care and we are fond of you. We hurt because you should care, but you don't and we want you to.
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  56. I just read this.With a healthy empath, you could love with all your heart and soul,but not give it away to the other person in such a way that you evaporated.

    Yes, you give, you risk, you become very vulnerable. This all hurts but is wonderful, too.

    In the end, we all die. Love dies,too. Wouldn't you rather touch it?
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